Hi guys.....
I have started to hear "rumors" at two of the deepcore computer tech sites I
visit regularly.....usually looking for solutions to situations when I'm
building a new system.....that there's some big problems with Microsoft's
ACPI software, especially related to computers with combined hardware of the
following:
Any Nvidia VC... and/or.....any SB Live card (Live, 5.1 XGamer, or 5.1
Platinum). Although, this may not be limited to these hardware devices
only.....this could only be coincidental to these being widely used devices
at this time.
The worst of the "problems/symptoms" will occur if you have both devices
listed above...and particularly if they are the "latest" models! Boy, not
only does that cover me.....it must cover a lot of you too?
The "problems" caused....or "symptoms" of this "problem" with MS ACPI are so
random and deeply integrated in a computer so affected, that both the
hardware vendors and MS have been successful (for the time being) in simply
"stuffing" this issue under the carpet while they try to figure out a "fix"
for it. Example: At the Creative Forum for SB Live card users, Creative's
tech support reps have been told to either not answer, or delete posts about
anything having to do with ACPI issues or questions. This is what I've
heard...it is rumor and I want to clearly indicate so....right here. But,
if this has any truth......its affecting many of us who are hardcore sim
racing community members!
Here's a short "grocery list" of the types of computer related
symptoms/problems being reported:
* Failure of system to boot .....its is random.
* Screen freeze on system boot.....particularly right after the systray
clock loads.
* System freeze on shutdown.
* Global freeze (screen lock, requiring cold shutdown or "reset") at
any time, particularly when running any Windows ops apps, like Defrag, Fine
Files/Folders, Registry Checker, etc. (On running Defrag, the global freeze
will occur at the moment your "percent completion" bar gets to
10%......supposedly this is characteristic of an ACPI problem in your
computer).
* Random "disconnect" from a LAN connection.
* Short screen freezes (less than a second in duration) but with
regular intervals usually under one minute apart when in any "game" program,
particularly high FPS games (I read that as: "racing sims"......what else?).
* Loud "tweets or chirps" from the sound (card) system on a reboot (as
Windows is booting up).....followed by scratchy or corrupted wave sound
playback until the system is rebooted.....(presumably without this "chirp"
sound occurring).
* Random and intermittent "jump" to Safe Mode on a "restart or cold
boot".........for no apparent or determinable reason.
* Faulty IRQ assignment of new hardware installed (particularly with
Win98SE). There are some reports where Win98SE has assigned every device to
the same IRQ....IRQ 9!
* In Win98SE (and this may be in other versions too), when "point to
select" option is used for mouse programming, simply pointing the mouse to a
"program icon" will cause the global freeze, particularly if using an MS
mouse device....this is intermittent and random.
* Slow or sluggish FPS in any D3D games....using the above
hardware....particularly when "both" are present in the computer.
* Devices being assigned to IRQ's by Win9x....but not listed by Win9x
as assigned to that IRQ.....but listed as assigned to another IRQ (this one
is just a "killer!")
[End of "list"...but there are no doubt, others to add to it.]
Boy....I don't know about any of you....but I've had many of these problems
for some time....but they are particularly bad in my current "game
box".....and I'm am being plagued by the global freeze issue in this
box....especially since installing an Nvidia Geforce 2 (Ultra) with an SB
Live 5.1 XGamer sound card (both were installed in the last 30 days).
What Can Be Done?
This is where this problem is particularly bad! You can't turn off
ACPI.....!!! And, that is totally unbelievable to me. In some cases,
disabling the ACPI in software (via control panel) can "help"....but not
eliminate these symptoms (if you have them, one or several of them.....I am
being plagued by three of them particularly right now). Apparently several
"peripheral device manufactures" have begged MS to allow them to put a
simple "on/off" switch in the BIOS to disable ACPI. Microsoft, has
threatened them with "desertification" of their equipment if they do this!
That sounds like MS's approach to some other issues....so I am tending to
believe this rumor. If you do manage to turn off ACPI in your motherboard
BIOS (some have allowed a combination of settings to do this)......but, if
your Win98SE was installed with ACPI activated......then your system either
won't work at all.....or it will work in a kind of "safe mode" type state
only! So, that's no solution!
What Is ACPI And Do We Need It?
I am still researching this issue. But, what I understand at the moment is
that: A)...We don't need ACPI at all, and; B)....It is designed by MS for
a future time and place...... when we use "computers" to wake up (turn on)
other devices in our homes and work places....like central air and heating
systems, lights, stereos, etc. It also is integrated into the
"Environmentally Friendly" thing (the term "Green Computer" is used in the
tech industry I think)......to put your system into sleep or suspend modes
when not being used. All of this....is designed to conserve energy
(electricity.....which is a particularly "hot issue" right now where I
live....in CA).
Apparently MS has a lot of money ....and time invested in ACPI.....going
back several years (one thing you can say about MS, they are always thinking
about 10 years ahead....but the problem is.....they "program" with today's
knowledge and skill level!). This is one reason they are "jamming it down"
the throats of the industry peripheral device manufacturers (and jamming it
down our throats....the "users").
I am making this "somewhat" off-topic post here in r.a.s. because of the
following reasons:
1. Because we are a group that does sim racing .......we are more
likely to have the hardware in our "boxes" that exhibits the worst of these
problems/symptoms. Our "stuff" tends to be more "cutting edge" than other
user groups and communities.
2. I don't think this "issue" is widely known within the "tech gurus"
in our sim racing community.....or at least I've not seen much posted about
this rather "global" problem....in my opinion. By making this post, I am
hoping to spur some of our more "tech" oriented sim drivers to do some
research and figure out some "fixes" for this issue with....what has to
be....many of our game boxes.
3. The last reason.....is perhaps the most important! If you do not
install the ACPI on an initial Win98SE installation (opt for the APM) power
management instead....an option given at or near the beginning of a Win98SE
install process....(not sure if that's true of OEM version of Win98SE
though)......then you avoid this whole issue completely! So......by posting
this in r.a.s. now.........maybe some of you who are building new
systems.....or are about to "fdisk" and reinstall Win98SE for whatever
reason........can get "word" of this and do your new installation (or
reinstallation) without activating the MS ACPI option.....completely
avoiding this whole mess!
At the moment, the only way to avoid this whole issue with the MS ACPI
programming problem (s)....is to reinstall Win98SE from scratch, choosing
the APM power management option instead of ACPI (as I understand it....I
have not done this yet, but may be doing it in the next couple of days).
Apparently, this "issue" has been well known within the "computer tech"
groups for some time? I say this because of the following Forum post (as an
example) I read last night (and I am copying this here so you can see for
yourself.....this is not a new issue....maybe its just "new" to us here in
sim racing land?):
***************************************
Posted by UserName: Scada....
"I had heard about that problem before about 2 or 3 years ago. I had a
friend who's scanner wouldn't work once the computer came out of standby.
The solution recommended by Microsoft then was to disable power management.
Ever since then I always turn that off in all my installs. It has become
second nature so much so that I had forgotten the problems leaving it on can
cause.
By the way I have a second rule I use at work.
If you ,the user, screwup your system. I ,the admin, will waste 15 min
trying to fix it. After that I'll reapply a ghost image and go to lunch."
****************************************
This guys is an IT technician at some big company...... I have a couple
email from him where he is almost laughing at me for not knowing to "NOT"
install Win98SE with ACPI.....instead of APM (the ACPI toggle is the default
option....thanks Microsoft!).
Anyway.....now I'm making him "work" for laughing at me! I challenged him
to see if he could find a way that one could do a Win98SE "overwrite"
installation and be allowed to turn the "power management toggle" over to
APM in the process? We are currently trying figure out if....or how....to
do that. And, I'm the guinea pig! ......lol.....
If we are successful with finding a way to do this....I will report it here,
under this string. In the meantime, any feedback from any of you with
useful information to add......or if you've found something that works to
make ACPI work...or work better....or disable the bastard.....please let us
know?
I hope this has "helped" maybe a few.......ready to do a Win98SE
install......to toggle APM instead of ACPI......thus avoiding this issue.
Regards,
Tom Pabst
PS: A few on this tech newsgroup who have had the symptoms/problems listed
above.....and have reinstalled Win98SE...with APM instead of ACPI.....have
reported their computers operating "almost beyond belief" they are so
fast....and trouble free! I happen to believe "fast and trouble free" are
not adjectives that can totally ever be used in regards to a computer
operation......lol......but that's certainly a "nirvana" we can all seek in
our next lives!
Tom,
Nice post. I suffer from these maladies in WIN ME (came with
the new 'puter. Any known solutions for ME? If I do a fdisk and
clean install, is there an option for no ACPI?
Thanks for any help!
Hank
"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:bMq76.115636$[email hidden]...
> Hi guys.....
>
> I have started to hear "rumors" at two of the deepcore computer tech sitesI
> visit regularly.....usually looking for solutions to situations when I'm
> building a new system.....that there's some big problems with Microsoft's
> ACPI software, especially related to computers with combined hardware ofthe
> following:
>
> Any Nvidia VC... and/or.....any SB Live card (Live, 5.1 XGamer, or 5.1
> Platinum). Although, this may not be limited to these hardware devices
> only.....this could only be coincidental to these being widely useddevices
so
> random and deeply integrated in a computer so affected, that both the
> hardware vendors and MS have been successful (for the time being) insimply
> "stuffing" this issue under the carpet while they try to figure out a"fix"
> for it. Example: At the Creative Forum for SB Live card users,Creative's
> tech support reps have been told to either not answer, or delete postsabout
> anything having to do with ACPI issues or questions. This is what I've
> heard...it is rumor and I want to clearly indicate so....right here. But,
> if this has any truth......its affecting many of us who are hardcore sim
> racing community members!
>
> Lots of Stuff Cut..............
Quoted text (7 lines)
> at this time. > > The worst of the "problems/symptoms" will occur if you have both devices > listed above...and particularly if they are the "latest" models! Boy, not > only does that cover me.....it must cover a lot of you too? > > The "problems" caused....or "symptoms" of this "problem" with MS ACPI areHank...
I believe it does.....but I do not know if WinME can be successful in an
"over-write" reinstall to turn off the ACPI. I am testing a "solution" for
Win98SE.....by trying a "over-write" procedure using a "flag" on the setup
command that will install the APM power management system over the ACPI.
This is not confirmed...so don't try it until I can give you all some
feedback on this.
In the meantime.....you can go to PC Guide.....the Forums there are full of
information about your system, and some work arounds others have tried.
Tom
"Hank Pauli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
sites
> I
> > visit regularly.....usually looking for solutions to situations when I'm
> > building a new system.....that there's some big problems withMicrosoft's
not
> > only does that cover me.....it must cover a lot of you too?
> >
> > The "problems" caused....or "symptoms" of this "problem" with MS ACPIare
But,
> > if this has any truth......its affecting many of us who are hardcore sim
> > racing community members!
> >
> > Lots of Stuff Cut..............
>
>
Quoted text (15 lines)
> Tom, > > Nice post. I suffer from these maladies in WIN ME (came with > the new 'puter. Any known solutions for ME? If I do a fdisk and > clean install, is there an option for no ACPI? > Thanks for any help! > > Hank > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bMq76.115636$[email hidden]... > > Hi guys..... > > > > I have started to hear "rumors" at two of the deepcore computer techQuoted text (12 lines)
> > ACPI software, especially related to computers with combined hardware of > the > > following: > > > > Any Nvidia VC... and/or.....any SB Live card (Live, 5.1 XGamer, or 5.1 > > Platinum). Although, this may not be limited to these hardware devices > > only.....this could only be coincidental to these being widely used > devices > > at this time. > > > > The worst of the "problems/symptoms" will occur if you have both devices > > listed above...and particularly if they are the "latest" models! Boy,Quoted text (12 lines)
> so > > random and deeply integrated in a computer so affected, that both the > > hardware vendors and MS have been successful (for the time being) in > simply > > "stuffing" this issue under the carpet while they try to figure out a > "fix" > > for it. Example: At the Creative Forum for SB Live card users, > Creative's > > tech support reps have been told to either not answer, or delete posts > about > > anything having to do with ACPI issues or questions. This is what I've > > heard...it is rumor and I want to clearly indicate so....right here.To prevent Windows98 from enabling ACPI when you install it, you can install
using the command "setup /p i".
To prevent Windows 2000 from enabling ACPI when you install it, you can hit
F7 at the point in the installation process where it asks you to hit F6 to
install SCSI drivers.
Go to Paul's Unofficial Abit FAQ's he covers all the hardware issues and how
to address
them.
http://go.to/kt7faq
Pete
"Hank Pauli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
sites
> I
> > visit regularly.....usually looking for solutions to situations when I'm
> > building a new system.....that there's some big problems withMicrosoft's
not
> > only does that cover me.....it must cover a lot of you too?
> >
> > The "problems" caused....or "symptoms" of this "problem" with MS ACPIare
But,
> > if this has any truth......its affecting many of us who are hardcore sim
> > racing community members!
> >
> > Lots of Stuff Cut..............
>
>
