Do FF wheels make your lap times lower?

Trying to decide a wheel for N4. I have a FF joystick and for the most part when I want to play seriously I turn FF off or way down. The FF efx just get in the way and hinder or alter the stick movement I want to make. Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way?

"Destroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want > to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? > I've found it depends on the game's implementation of FF. In GPL I'd almost say it is indispensable. In SCGT, FF is near useless. GPL gives me a lot of car "feel" and I'm much more consistent now. SCGT has nearly no car "feel" just the rumble strip-type effects. Dale.

"Warren" <[email hidden]> writes: > to be honest i have used both and taken the time to get used to both > in GPL ( all i drive) in 2 sec per lap at all tracks faster without FF > it depends on you and what you get used to. > good luck The nice thing about FF is that while you are not faster, you are much more consistent in a race. The FF helps a lot when you make mistakes, and I've saved that car a lot where it would be lost with a non-FF controller.

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> Sideshow Bob <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Destroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want > > > to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? > > > > > > > I've found it depends on the game's implementation of FF. > > > > In GPL I'd almost say it is indispensable. In SCGT, FF is near useless. > > > > GPL gives me a lot of car "feel" and I'm much more consistent now. SCGT > has > > nearly no car "feel" just the rumble strip-type effects. > > > > Dale. > > > > > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Warren wrote: > > to be honest i have used both and taken the time to get used to both > in GPL ( all i drive) in 2 sec per lap at all tracks faster without FF > it depends on you and what you get used to. > good luck > I'd say if you use proper driving technique, FF will help you to do consistent fast times. If you're 'overdriving' the car, FF won't allow you that if you have forces set to somewhat realistically high. It really depends on what kind of speed you're looking at. But for absolute fastest hotlap time, I'd say a non FF wheel would work best. I, on the other hand, never knew how to drive GPL any differently than what I'd do with a real car (I like to caress it :) ), so I noticed a drop in laptimes and also more consistency. -Gregor

to be honest i have used both and taken the time to get used to both in GPL ( all i drive) in 2 sec per lap at all tracks faster without FF it depends on you and what you get used to. good luck Sideshow Bob <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Destroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want > > to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? > > > > I've found it depends on the game's implementation of FF. > > In GPL I'd almost say it is indispensable. In SCGT, FF is near useless. > > GPL gives me a lot of car "feel" and I'm much more consistent now. SCGT

has > nearly no car "feel" just the rumble strip-type effects. > > Dale. > >

>Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want >to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? > In GPL, FF will help you learn to drive better, because it lets you know when you're horsing the car around. OTOH, I'm sure the ability to unrealistically whip the steering around probably would be faster sometimes.

They do and they don't: here is my experience: In Colin McRae (vers 1 this is) : I find the FF a boon here - it really demonstrates that you paid the extra for the wheel - not sure if it helps my driving but it adds to my enjoyment emmensely. Tend to find I look for large jumps to get the wheel humming - and this probably makes for a poor performance. In GP3: FF is really annoying, mostly because the FF is so incredibly subtle I spend half the time wondering if my wheel has broken. I guess I could race GP3 better with a non FF wheel because I wouldn't checking connections under the desk as I'm driving - or deliberately knocking other cars to see if the wheel is working. In GPL: FF at its best - I'm never distracted by the FF in this game because it integrates really well with the visual and audio cues. Not a good enough racer to explain this - but I can get a feeling for the level of grip available through the wheel. FOr instance, I would know when I'm about to loose it - and this is due to my bad driving, rather than attempting to test the wheel. If I went to a nonFF wheel with GPL, I would be much worse, if this where possible. In Rally Championship 2000: this is a cross between the "fun" element in CMR and the useful element in GPL. This game is the one I use after I've played GP3 to reassure myself that the wheel does, in fact work. This is because RC 2000, would happy wrench the wheel from your hands - great stuff. Destroy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Trying to decide a wheel for N4. I have a FF joystick and for the most > part when I want to play seriously I turn FF off or way down. The FF efx > just get in the way and hinder or alter the stick movement I want to > make. > > Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want > to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? >

Need to lose the He-Man settings there Steven... GP3 will talk to you more (also: patch takes care of the lag) and you'll be even more consistent in GPL (because it takes less effort to stop the car overreacting to an upset). Wheel should only be wrung from your hands if something major happens (like catching a wheel on something in GPL). Jan. =--- steven crook-dawkins wrote... > <snip> > This is because RC 2000, would happy wrench > the wheel from your hands - great stuff.

For N4 I'd say definately... there is such a lot you can "feel" about the car, which subsequently you don't have to look for with your eyes and ears, allowing you to be much more situational aware in traffic and ultimately, in longer races, it's also much less tirering. Make sure you read the FF-FAQ at Alison's site: http://alison.simracing.com/gpl/ If you just want to hotlap then by all means, use a non-FF wheel (car can't fight back). Might want to lose the centering bungee/spring in there too. Two of the fastest people I know don't use any form of centering whatsoever. Using F10 view can also be benificial.<vwg> Jan. =--- Destroy wrote... > Trying to decide a wheel for N4.

Sorry - can you be more specific for GP3? The trouble is I cannot gain any benefit from FF in GP3. My post about "wrenched from your hands" was a bit of a joke. But I do maintain that I need to be able to detect the FF to allow it to improve my driving. I did mention that the settings (at a subtle level) help in GPL, it is the lack of any feedback in GP3 that's the trouble. I don't see how "loosing He-man settings" will address this. Are you perhaps saying that when set to 100% the FF in GP3 somehow decreases? Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Need to lose the He-Man settings there Steven... GP3 will talk to you more > (also: patch takes care of the lag) and you'll be even more consistent in > GPL (because it takes less effort to stop the car overreacting to anupset). > Wheel should only be wrung from your hands if something major happens(like

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> catching a wheel on something in GPL). > > Jan. > =--- > steven crook-dawkins wrote... > > <snip> > > This is because RC 2000, would happy wrench > > the wheel from your hands - great stuff. > > >

No, I'm just saying it downs out subtle clues. Have to admit the car is still not as "alive" and predictable as in GPL, but it helps. Jan. =--- steven crook-dawkins wrote... > Sorry - can you be more specific for GP3? The trouble > is I cannot gain any benefit from FF in GP3. > > <snip>

>Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want >to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? It depends on the wheel IMHO. I have used three wheels with GPL, a TMF1, an MSFF, and now a TM Modena Pro 360. Out of the three I was slowest with the MSFF because it's a big 'orrible thing. The TM wheels have no FF but for me they are much more precise and easier to drive with. -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

Graeme, In my experience, a FF wheel will *ultimately* make you faster in GPL because the sim models caster return. IOW, when yer doin' it wrong, FF tells you! Like Pavlov's pooch, you soon learn to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to avoid the nasty "U f*cked up" msg. thru the wheel rim, sooooo...after a while...you start driving so smooooth you don't get the tactile klaxon, and--mirabile dictu--yer lap times come down. However...this takes some getting used to. I'd say abt. a month...and that's with a *good* wheel (the original Logi WMFF, the TM/Guillemont Ferrari, etc.). --Steve Smith Graeme Nash <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > >Is a FF wheel the same way in that FF is cool and fun but when you want > >to cut serious lap times or try to win, the FF efx just gets in the way? > > It depends on the wheel IMHO. I have used three wheels with GPL, a TMF1, > an MSFF, and now a TM Modena Pro 360. Out of the three I was slowest > with the MSFF because it's a big 'orrible thing. > > The TM wheels have no FF but for me they are much more precise and > easier to drive with. > > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash

>IOW, when yer doin' it wrong, FF >tells you! I'd rather not know what I'm doing wrong. Ignorance is GPLRank bliss :-) >Like Pavlov's pooch, you soon learn to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to >avoid the nasty "U f*cked up" msg. LOL, I recently took my UK A-Level psychology exam and pretty much the only thing I got decent marks on was Pavlovian theory :-) (And Social Identity Theory!) :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

Graeme, <<I'd rather not know what I'm doing wrong. Ignorance is GPLRank bliss.>> Then might I suggest you drive with the keyboard.... --Steve

Graeme Nash wrote:

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> Steve Smith wrote: > > >Like Pavlov's pooch, you soon learn to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to > >avoid the nasty "U f*cked up" msg. > LOL, I recently took my UK A-Level psychology exam and pretty much the > only thing I got decent marks on was Pavlovian theory :-) (And Social > Identity Theory!) :-)

Well then both you and Steve should know that avoiding a negative stimulus by doing a desired behavior (i.e., negative reinforcement) was part of B.F. Skinner's operant conditioning theories, not Pavlov's conditioned reflex work. ;-) Dave Ewing (B.A. Experimental Psychology, B.A. Computer Science) -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

"David Ewing" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

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> Graeme Nash wrote: > > > Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > >Like Pavlov's pooch, you soon learn to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to > > >avoid the nasty "U f*cked up" msg. > > LOL, I recently took my UK A-Level psychology exam and pretty much the > > only thing I got decent marks on was Pavlovian theory :-) (And Social > > Identity Theory!) :-) > > Well then both you and Steve should know that avoiding a negative stimulus > by doing a desired behavior (i.e., negative reinforcement) was part of

B.F. > Skinner's operant conditioning theories, not Pavlov's conditioned reflex > work. ;-) > > Dave Ewing (B.A. Experimental Psychology, B.A. Computer Science) It was such an obvious mistake I didn't bother posting a correction :-P -- Tony Whitley GPLRank +10.65