CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

Check www.cart.com for details.

In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Check www.cart.com for details. Should make for an interesting comparison with the F1 cars. I suspect F1 will be quicker, but now traction control is legal, *far* less exciting to watch. Can't help but thinking F1 is going the wrong way with all these driver aids. - Michael

Yes with the brakes that Cart allows vs the F1 brakes, that alone should make for faster F1 lap times. dave henrie "MichaelJP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > Should make for an interesting comparison with the F1 cars. I suspect F1 > will be quicker, but now traction control is legal, *far* less exciting > to watch. Can't help but thinking F1 is going the wrong way with all > these driver aids. > > - Michael

Hooray! A good circuit for CART IMO... F1 should really come out on top overall with t he giant back straight and all but clocking cars through certain sections and corners, CART may be surprisingly (or not) quick! MichaelJP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > Should make for an interesting comparison with the F1 cars. I suspect F1 > will be quicker, but now traction control is legal, *far* less exciting > to watch. Can't help but thinking F1 is going the wrong way with all > these driver aids. > > - Michael

Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I cannot wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be the only one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any notions that the CART series is not world class racing. Marc. "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rDL96.6587$[email hidden]... > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > >

l I just had a epif...an...epiph....well lets just say a light bulb went off. There is a CART project going on by some users of F1CS2k. Since GV is already included in that title....One of the tracks is already finished! If a Champ car and a F1 vehicle both launched from the Hairpin at the same time, the F1 car would scoot away. The Champ car would "probably" catch and pass the F1 car before the end of the straight, but when the Champ car would have to begin braking for the chicane, the F1 car would repass and disappear. dave henrie "

It will definitely be interesting to see how much different the lap times are given the differences in weight, tires, brakes, power and aerodynamics. I suspect the F1 cars will be quicker but I've been wrong before :) Wayne Hutchison "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VS5a6.287681$[email hidden]... > l I just had a epif...an...epiph....well lets just say a light bulb went > off. > There is a CART project going on by some users of F1CS2k. Since > GV is already included in that title....One of the tracks is already > finished! > If a Champ car and a F1 vehicle both launched from the Hairpin at thesame > time, the F1 car would scoot away. The Champ car would "probably" catchand > pass the F1 car before the end of the straight, but when the Champ carwould > have to begin braking for the chicane, the F1 car would repass and > disappear. > dave henrie > " >

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:00:17 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Yes with the brakes that Cart allows vs the F1 brakes, that alone should >make for faster F1 lap times. I think tracks like Hockenhiem and Road America would put the CART cars ahead. But at all the other tracks, its F1. I can't think of one place on the Montreal circuit where the CART cars would be faster. Except perhaps just before the pit entrance. --- http://go.to/ra300z

I'd actually be more interested in individual section times, top speeds, cornering speeds etc.. as that would lay rest to all CART vs. F1 threads. CART have big wide slick tyres to F1's narrower grooved tyres... CART cars must corner faster? Then again, are CART heavier? F1 should have the boot out of the corner but would CART have a higher top end speed? In technical aspects like this the cars are a complete opposite of the other... definitely interesting. Wayne Hutchison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O06a6.6944$[email hidden]... > It will definitely be interesting to see how much different the lap times > are given the differences in weight, tires, brakes, power andaerodynamics.

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> I suspect the F1 cars will be quicker but I've been wrong before :) > > Wayne Hutchison > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VS5a6.287681$[email hidden]... > > l I just had a epif...an...epiph....well lets just say a light bulb

went

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> > off. > > There is a CART project going on by some users of F1CS2k. Since > > GV is already included in that title....One of the tracks is already > > finished! > > If a Champ car and a F1 vehicle both launched from the Hairpin at the > same > > time, the F1 car would scoot away. The Champ car would "probably" catch > and > > pass the F1 car before the end of the straight, but when the Champ car > would > > have to begin braking for the chicane, the F1 car would repass and > > disappear. > > dave henrie > > " > > > >

In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Check www.cart.com for details. > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. - one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART. Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a CART car, and a well known track and figure this crap out all on my own.... ;) MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8,1 RUN

Marc, Having both a F1 and a CART race @ Montreal seems suppuratingly dumb. As you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the other (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART race @ Toronto isn't doing all *that* well; why replicate it so nearby? And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood! --Steve Smith Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CE5a6.124694$[email hidden]... > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), Icannot > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be theonly > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up anynotions

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> that the CART series is not world class racing. > > Marc. > > "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rDL96.6587$[email hidden]... > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > >

The Western Canadiens seem to get the short shrift in Cascar as well. I live about 90 minutes from the Canadien border in Washington State. The closest CART event is in Portland Oregon...8 hours away at legal speeds, 6 if you have a radar detector...:) I made that race once...Thrill of a lifetime for me(included the last year of the NATCC touring cars). I hope many from BC can make the trip down to Portland....except for a very muddy parking field...it's a great track.(bring your raingear) I've already seen a post about the FIA demanding circuit changes so the two series won't race on the same track...hmmm what is the FIA so afraid of? the limit the CART events outside of North America to Ovals and then also try to keep the Champ cars from directly competing with them at Montreal. I would think the FIA would WELCOME the challenge...the advantages of the F1 rules would more than compensate for the extra horsepower the Champcars have..(somebody said the Honda's at California were pulling close to 1000 hp in qualifying trim) Lets get last year's Reynenske and last year's Ferrari and run them at 3 tracks.. a tight roadcourse, an open roadcourse and a large oval...wouldn't that be something? dave henrie "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bwqa6.132232$[email hidden]...

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> Marc, > > Having both a F1 and a CART race @ Montreal seems suppuratingly dumb. As > you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same > track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the other > (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time > alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART > race @ Toronto isn't doing all *that* well; why replicate it so nearby? > And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of > Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood! > > --Steve Smith > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CE5a6.124694$[email hidden]... > > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I > cannot > > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be the > only > > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any > notions > > that the CART series is not world class racing. > > > > Marc. > > > > "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rDL96.6587$[email hidden]... > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Myself, I would have prefer if they moved the Toronto race to Mosport. With all the upgrades there, it is once again a great place to race. Wayne Hutchison "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bwqa6.132232$[email hidden]...

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> Marc, > > Having both a F1 and a CART race @ Montreal seems suppuratingly dumb. As > you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same > track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the other > (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time > alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART > race @ Toronto isn't doing all *that* well; why replicate it so nearby? > And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of > Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood! > > --Steve Smith > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CE5a6.124694$[email hidden]... > > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I > cannot > > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be the > only > > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any > notions > > that the CART series is not world class racing. > > > > Marc. > > > > "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rDL96.6587$[email hidden]... > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > Having both a F1 and a CART race @ Montreal seems suppuratingly dumb. As > you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same > track. LMAO hey do you live in Montreal? Nope. Be sure we have enough interest for two race. Heck would you say the same for Daytona, which has two major races at the track? It's well know that motorsports in Qu�bec has incredible population (possible future WRC date, American LeMans Series at Mt-Tremblant, Trois-Rivi�res GP, major events in other types of racing). Normand Legault (promoter of both events) know it much more then you do. Why would he do something like that if he thought that us people in Qu�bec wouldn't go to both? The waiting list for the F1 event is quite long. > Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the other > (to the detriment of the loser). So what? We don't give an arse about that in Qu�bec. Bring in the spectacle, it's enough for us. I think we have enough brain to know it's both different series. So what if one is slower then the other? Think about that seriously. So what? > Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time > alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. It's good enough for the American LeMans Series. Knowing that track very (very) much, let me tell you it was never popular. Even back in the F1 days, the track held not more then 15000 people. There is just a single lane road that goes up to the circuit, and the safety always lacked. The track is a logistic nightmare. > Four, the CART > race @ Toronto isn't doing all *that* well; why replicate it so nearby? Because there is a well known barrier between the interest of French Canadians and English Canadians in motorsports. We have 2 CART drivers, 1 F1 driver, and many other well implanted in other racing series. Our interest is much higher towards racing then the rest of Canada. > And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of > Canada? No more Vancouver? It's a boring track. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

I agree, Wayne. Canadian beer politics must play a *strong* role. --Steve Wayne Hutchison <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%ura6.10638$[email hidden]... > Myself, I would have prefer if they moved the Toronto race to Mosport.With > all the upgrades there, it is once again a great place to race. > > Wayne Hutchison >

Michael, et al., CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here: http://www.autoracing1.com/index.htm --Steve Smith Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.14d39e1e9cac63cf98969a@news...

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> In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. - > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART. > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a CART > car, and a well known track and figure this crap out all on my own.... ;) > > MRSisson > > -- > LOAD "GPL",8,1 > RUN

Correction, please. Having squinted @ the enlarged map, it would seem that CART intends to *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster? --Steve Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eQBa6.141908$[email hidden]...

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> Michael, et al., > > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here: > > http://www.autoracing1.com/index.htm > > --Steve Smith > > Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:MPG.14d39e1e9cac63cf98969a@news... > > In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. - > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART. > > > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a CART > > car, and a well known track and figure this crap out all on my own....

;)

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> > > > MRSisson > > > > -- > > LOAD "GPL",8,1 > > RUN > >

Are they cancelling the Vancouver race--no? Toronto and Vancouver are the two "best" races (in terms of fan support, money rolling in, reception, etc.) according to Bobby Rahal. The track that is near Montreal that is worth a look is Mont Tremblant--used in the Mosport era. Tommy Hilfiger bought it last year and it is scheduled to be re-opened soon. I took a walking tour if it this past summer in it's pre-reconstruction condition. What a GPL moment! I hope someone creates this track as a GPL add-on. You must be joking that race fans would not want to see two races on the same track...ever heard of a small series called NASCAR!?!?!?! Marc. "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bwqa6.132232$[email hidden]...

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> Marc, > > Having both a F1 and a CART race @ Montreal seems suppuratingly dumb. As > you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same > track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the other > (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time > alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART > race @ Toronto isn't doing all *that* well; why replicate it so nearby? > And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of > Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood! > > --Steve Smith > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CE5a6.124694$[email hidden]... > > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I > cannot > > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be the > only > > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any > notions > > that the CART series is not world class racing. > > > > Marc. > > > > "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rDL96.6587$[email hidden]... > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

CART actually believes that racing should occur...when possible. I wish we could say the same for the FIA. Marc. "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITBa6.141910$[email hidden]...

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> Correction, please. > > Having squinted @ the enlarged map, it would seem that CART intends to > *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be > p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster? > > --Steve > > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:eQBa6.141908$[email hidden]... > > Michael, et al., > > > > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here: > > > > http://www.autoracing1.com/index.htm > > > > --Steve Smith > > > > Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:MPG.14d39e1e9cac63cf98969a@news... > > > In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state > > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. - > > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART. > > > > > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a

CART

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> > > car, and a well known track and figure this crap out all on my own.... > ;) > > > > > > MRSisson > > > > > > -- > > > LOAD "GPL",8,1 > > > RUN > > > > > >

"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here: > http://www.autoracing1.com/index.htm This is in no way a CART representation of the circuit. It's just the way AutoRacing1.com would like to see the track. Nobody has yet to see any plan of new track, if there is any of that new track. Heck even I made my own modified track map :( http://www3.sympatico.ca/yves.menard/carttrack.gif ) IMHO only the second modified portion is possible, considering the safety zone in the Senna curves is inexistant and too dangerous for CART cars heading straight on there (I made the same error myself in my map). The second portion of the circuit is already in existance, it's used as a bicycle track and there is enough space to level the width of that portion. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

>"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > Having squinted @ the enlarged map, it would seem that CART intends to > *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be > p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster? I was thinking again about that map and it's impossible to have it that way. The second modified portion of the circuit has a 20feet hill in Turn 5. Anybody who remembers the crash that Olivier Panis suffered in Turn 5 knows that you can't build a track from there. The bicycle track runs from Turn 3 instead all the way to the backstretch in T7. Sorry for the error, I saw that after I posted the message. If you check out the second picture on that site you can see the bicycle road after T3. Heck, I was there two nights ago ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

CART biggest problem? They chose the WRONG method for slowing the cars down at the small ovals. A few years ago, the racing was furious, almost touring car intensity. Now with the greatly deminished downforce rules at the small ovals, the cars line up and parade around. Increased Grip equals Increased racing...when will the world's various series realize this? dave henrie

> > Having squinted @ the enlarged map, it would seem that CART intends to > > *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be > > p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster? > > > > --Steve Yes the pictures and the text don't seem to agree. The current track is shown with the solid lines, then they show the two added chicanes which the text says will add two braking points for the CHAMP cars. Yet the track graphics say those changes will be for the F1 cars. Methinks the graphic artist and the article author need to confer a-bit more. It would make sense for Uncle Bernie to add unessessary(how DO you spell that word?) chicanes based on the FIA's past actions. On the other hand, the Portland track in the Western US, has had a re-model on the table for years that would bypass the excellant last series of 4 corners and make just one sweeping turn. This, I think, in an effort to influence Nascar to bring the Winston Cup cars up North. I hope it doesn't come to pass. Finally, the CART cars at Mid Ohio bypass a chicane right before the carosel. So why add more at GV?? dave henrie

(snip) > Increased Grip equals Increased racing...when will the world's various > series realize this?(unsnip) When the controlling bodies are made up of the drivers. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7mHa6.294282$[email hidden]... >

You're correct. The dotted lines are the current F1 circuit. Wayne "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ITBa6.141910$[email hidden]...

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> Correction, please. > > Having squinted @ the enlarged map, it would seem that CART intends to > *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be > p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster? > > --Steve > > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:eQBa6.141908$[email hidden]... > > Michael, et al., > > > > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here: > > > > http://www.autoracing1.com/index.htm > > > > --Steve Smith > > > > Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:MPG.14d39e1e9cac63cf98969a@news... > > > In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state > > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. - > > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART. > > > > > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a

CART

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> > > car, and a well known track and figure this crap out all on my own.... > ;) > > > > > > MRSisson > > > > > > -- > > > LOAD "GPL",8,1 > > > RUN > > > > > >

why bernie doesn't want a direct comparison taken from autosport website first want to say I enjoy your work, both past and present. Now my question is this: a raging debate I have with friends concerns CART and F1. I am a fan of both series, however, I tell my CART friends that if an F1 car and CART car were to lap the same track, say, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (because of the impending CART race rumoured to be held there in 2002 at the expense of Vancouver), the F1 car would be at least five seconds faster. I would also say that Montoya in the Ganassi would not outqualify Mazzacane in the Minardi. Could you perhaps shed an adventurous opinion? Dino Giorgio, Ottawa, Canada Dear Dino, First of all, like you I am a fan of both F1 and CART. If indeed CART does go to Montreal, to the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, it will be fascinating, because it's a very long time since both types of car have run at the same track in the same year. Would the F1 cars be "at least five seconds faster", as you suggest? Until the CART cars have run there, that must remain in the realms of conjecture. Logically, given that the CART cars are very much heavier, and do not have carbon brakes, they would be at a severe disadvantage at a track like Montreal, which puts a premium on braking - but still I find it hard to imagine Mazzacane's Minardi being quicker than Montoya in one of Ganassi's Reynards... It's a very long time now, and the regulations in both series were different from now, but back in 1978 the Indycars, then competing for the USAC Championship (the year before CART was launched), came to England for a couple of races, at Silverstone and Brands Hatch. This was the beginning of the 'ground effect' era in F1, the year of domination by the Lotus 79s of Mario Andretti and Ronnie Peterson. At the USAC race at Silverstone, though, I have never forgotten the sight of Danny Ongais's Parnelli on its pole lap. This car emphatically did not have any ground effect technology, but Ongais lapped in 1m16.25s. At the time, the F1 lap record was 1m 19.60s... On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:55:26 -0500, "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>You're correct. The dotted lines are the current F1 circuit. > >Wayne > >"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:ITBa6.141910$[email hidden]... >> Correction, please. >> >> Having squinted @ the enlarged map, it would seem that CART intends to >> *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be >> p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster? >> >> --Steve >> >> Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:eQBa6.141908$[email hidden]... >> > Michael, et al., >> > >> > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here: >> > >> > http://www.autoracing1.com/index.htm >> > >> > --Steve Smith >> > >> > Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> > news:MPG.14d39e1e9cac63cf98969a@news... >> > > In article <rDL96.6587$[email hidden]>, >> > > [email hidden] says... >> > > > Check www.cart.com for details. >> > > > >> > > >> > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state >> > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. - >> > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART. >> > > >> > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a >CART >> > > car, and a well known track and figure this crap out all on my own.... >> ;) >> > > >> > > MRSisson >> > > >> > > -- >> > > LOAD "GPL",8,1 >> > > RUN >> > >> > >> >> >

This goes even farther back...didn't Dan Gurney once offer a challenge to any F1 team to race against an Indy car? dave henrie <> It's a very long time now, and the regulations in both series were

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> different from now, but back in 1978 the Indycars, then competing for > the USAC Championship (the year before CART was launched), came to > England for a couple of races, at Silverstone and Brands Hatch. > > This was the beginning of the 'ground effect' era in F1, the year of > domination by the Lotus 79s of Mario Andretti and Ronnie Peterson. At > the USAC race at Silverstone, though, I have never forgotten the sight > of Danny Ongais's Parnelli on its pole lap. This car emphatically did > not have any ground effect technology, but Ongais lapped in 1m16.25s. > At the time, the F1 lap record was 1m 19.60s...

In article <7mHa6.294282$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > A few years ago, the racing was furious, > almost touring car intensity. Now with the greatly deminished downforce > rules at the small ovals, the cars line up and parade around. Surely one of the problems with F1 at the moment is that the level of downforce required means that cars can't follow one another closely - the turbulent air means the front wing becomes inefficient. You see it time and time again as the car behind can't stay close through the turn. > Increased Grip equals Increased racing...when will the world's various > series realize this? I would say Increased Mechanical Grip, not increased downforce. - Michael

Marc, Vancouver's days are numbered. Bernie has indicated Ste. Jovite (pronounced Jovit' by the linguistically-challenged locals) is an unsuitable venue for his mincing aristocrats. Tommy Hilfiger...wasn't he created from whole cloth, like the Monkees? I've heard of NASCAR. (More importantly, I've heard of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.) I've also heard of very few ailing series that want to stage events in the same neighborhood twice. Ever heard of Belle Isle? Ever heard of MIS? Detroiters have...and they don't show up at both events. Canadians, tho'...go configure...as we say in the computa biz, eh? --Steve Smith Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MrEa6.136447$[email hidden]... > Are they cancelling the Vancouver race--no? Toronto and Vancouver are the > two "best" races (in terms of fan support, money rolling in, reception, > etc.) according to Bobby Rahal. > > The track that is near Montreal that is worth a look is MontTremblant--used > in the Mosport era. Tommy Hilfiger bought it last year and it isscheduled > to be re-opened soon. I took a walking tour if it this past summer init's

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> pre-reconstruction condition. What a GPL moment! I hope someone creates > this track as a GPL add-on. > > You must be joking that race fans would not want to see two races on the > same track...ever heard of a small series called NASCAR!?!?!?! > > Marc. > > "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bwqa6.132232$[email hidden]... > > Marc, > > > > Having both a F1 and a CART race @ Montreal seems suppuratingly dumb.

As > > you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same > > track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or theother

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> > (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time > > alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART > > race @ Toronto isn't doing all *that* well; why replicate it so nearby? > > And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of > > Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood! > > > > --Steve Smith > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:CE5a6.124694$[email hidden]... > > > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I > > cannot > > > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be

the

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> > only > > > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any > > notions > > > that the CART series is not world class racing. > > > > > > Marc. > > > > > > "Wayne Hutchison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:rDL96.6587$[email hidden]... > > > > Check www.cart.com for details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > Bernie has indicated Ste. Jovite (pronounced Jovit' by the > linguistically-challenged locals) Your just trolling. What a shame of yourself, writing such bigotry on my people. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:31:52 -0000, MichaelJP <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <7mHa6.294282$[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> A few years ago, the racing was furious, >> almost touring car intensity. Now with the greatly deminished downforce >> rules at the small ovals, the cars line up and parade around. > >Surely one of the problems with F1 at the moment is that the level of >downforce required means that cars can't follow one another closely - >the turbulent air means the front wing becomes inefficient. You see it >time and time again as the car behind can't stay close through the turn.

I'm not sure I agree. As we saw at the Indianapolis USGP last year, and at Hungaroring and other places, a high-downforce setup allows F1 cars to follow and draft better than they do with low downforce (less wing) setups. -Matt S.

Francois, I hadn't intended it that way, but yer right, it looks biggoted and I apologize. --Steve ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zt3b6.105595$[email hidden]...

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> >"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Bernie has indicated Ste. Jovite (pronounced Jovit' by the > > linguistically-challenged locals) > > Your just trolling. What a shame of yourself, writing such bigotry on my > people. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how > hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

>"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > I hadn't intended it that way, but yer right, it looks biggoted and I > apologize. It's okay. But seriously, we say it the correct way. St-Jovite in French is well... St-Jovite. We don't say "Saint-Joviteee" because that's not how you speak French. If a word ends with the "e" vowel it is most of the time muted. Our dialect doesn't change this aspect of pronunciation. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Francois, My French is beyond atrocious (despite coming from a French-speaking family), but I would assume that in metropolitan French, it would be pronounced"San Joe-VEET". In the Laurentians, it's pronounced "San Joe-VIT," or am I wrong here? --Steve ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g3jb6.145185$[email hidden]...

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> >"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I hadn't intended it that way, but yer right, it looks biggoted and I > > apologize. > > > It's okay. But seriously, we say it the correct way. St-Jovite in French > is well... St-Jovite. We don't say "Saint-Joviteee" because that's not

how > you speak French. If a word ends with the "e" vowel it is most of thetime

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> muted. Our dialect doesn't change this aspect of pronunciation. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how > hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > >

>"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > My French is beyond atrocious (despite coming from a French-speaking > family), but I would assume that in metropolitan French, it would be > pronounced"San Joe-VEET". In the Laurentians, it's pronounced "San > Joe-VIT," or am I wrong here? Nah, everybody would say such word as "Saint Joahveet". There is no major dialect differences between people in the Laurentians and in Montr�al. It's not even an hour away remember ;) Unless you have somebody from Gaspesia, who will probably pronounce it "St-Chowit" :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

In article <j__a6.1528$[email hidden]>, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >I've heard of NASCAR. (More importantly, I've heard of the Indianapolis >Motor Speedway.) I've also heard of very few ailing series that want to >stage events in the same neighborhood twice. Ever heard of Belle Isle? >Ever heard of MIS? Detroiters have...and they don't show up at both events. >Canadians, tho'...go configure...as we say in the computa biz, eh? > I've been to 3 Detroit races, but I've been at the free day every year since the first F1 race(1982?). I've never been to MIS, though. I keep meaning to go, but there's something about all those people cooped up in Brooklyn... I know the traffic is HORRID. For Belle Isle, I just walk across the bridge, jump in my car, and drive off. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.