Thats it... GPL has just buggered the hell out of me!!!

I'm going absolutely mental here, I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a loss. Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at say, Monza... I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a seconds advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good hotlap in most sims... But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from (almost) day 1! Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being released... this is madness! If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better ideas? :-)

If there is one common element among the quicker drivers -- I'm *not* one of them -- it seems to be that they are able to carry more speed through the turns. They brake later and less than us mere mortals... Paul the Cat =^..^= "We've been sleeping all our lives -- At last we can open our eyes." -- Carly Simon

Fast drivers brake later, brake less and get on the gas earlier, sounds so simple doesn't it? Beyond skill and practice I think equipment has something to do with it. I improved when I bought a FF wheel because it gave me more feedback and being a better unit allowed me to feed the game better input. I was at a buddies house a xmas and he had a high powered Pent III with a super duper graphics board. Even though I wasn't using my regular setup I and I was just hacking around, I was able to recover from mistakes that would have put me in the armco at home. I think because the CPU was less busy so it could accept smaller corrections earlier. Because his resolution was about a zillion by a zillion, I also think I was able to pick out the apex better and get on the power earlier simply because I could see better. Now I'm not saying I just need a better machine to be fast or that it makes up for skill & practice, but I'll bet it won't hurt. Art. "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

Try a 30 power side angle (1st number in the diff setting)...if you can learn to drive monza with that diff setting (30/45 or 30/60 or something like that) then you will knock some time off...30 accelerates a little better because it locks the rear tires together quickly...the side effect is that you get a lot of power oversteer so you have to be very sensitive with the throttle in the turns...but give it a try and eventually you will love it. JB "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

I don't know what your experience level is, but one of my biggest breakthroughs came when I finally learned to take corners (at least to a degree) by modulating the throttle rather than turning the steering wheel. And no, I've never even been close to a 1.26 at Monza. Jerry Morelock "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

Here is my advice: First, get rid of the "buggered" attitude. that alone is probably causing you to lose some time. You end up going out on the track trying to make up that couple seconds and it is killing you. I do the same :-) What I do now is to just simply go on track and try to run some comfortable laps without pushing the car. Eventually you just end up getting fater and faster each day. I rarely adjust my setups (downloaded), just get to know the track more and more and picking down tose lap times. Can't say Im within 2 seconds of the hot-lappers either, but I do well in the league I am running. Second, your equipment will make a big difference. The faster the PC the more accurate you can be with braking, turning, error corrections, etc. The faster you are with htose things, the better/faster you are going to go. A good wheel/pedal combo makes a huge difference in control over your vehicle. Third, download some replays. I have learned more about my lack of speeds by watching my competitors either in a replay or behind him/her on the track. Where they brake later and how, where they get through the turns faster and so on. I find myself slower in some turns but faster in others, and that may be directly related to the setup. Fourth, setup. I like very soft setups (probably because I come with more of the Nascar related background) then most. They stick better but aren't as responsive. Forces me to run a little higher ride height, but I like that too. I also like big camber setups and nice even gearing. If I can work out a good (not spectacular) handling car then I can make up for the difference in driving (let me retain this lie to myself guys, its the only thing keeping me up front) I have had GPL since release in '98, but never really got around to any serious racing in it 'till just the past 2 months. I have always enjoyed GPL just didnt want to invest the amount of time it took to create the setups (plus I suck at setup creation). So I downloaded Allison Hine's F2 Ferrari setups and soon found myself running better then her own times that she lists with her setups. I then downloaded a few other's setups and found a set that matches my style a bit more and now am able to run in the lead pack at most any track that our league visits. I have decided to stick with the F2 cars for pure enjoyment though, less HP, closer racing, and you can really throw the car around and have a blast doing it. "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... : I'm going absolutely mental here, : I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a : loss. : : Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. : On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at : say, Monza... : I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a seconds : advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a : lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good : hotlap in most sims... : But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap : that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the : 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from (almost) : day 1! : : Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of : virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? : : I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at : such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being released... : this is madness! : : If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better ideas? : :-) : :

If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable and practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with something else. David G Fisher "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

> : > : If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better > ideas? > : :-) > : > :Give muttley a boneEven tho i'm a good 5 seconds behind the rest of the pack, and always last on the grid, I love the online races , Practice? Bollocks!!! you either have it or you dont ,and I certainly dont have it. maybe i'll improve but after 6 months trying i dont think I will.but it doesnt get me down, sometimes i'll battle with a racer of equal skill and i 'll bet i get as much pleasure and thrills as i would being a front runner Its all part of racing, theres the Hakkinens and Shumi's and theres us Crap but loving every minute. Semi www.beatroute.freeserve.co.uk > >

It is quite easy in GPL not to be getting 100% throtle it happend to me when I got a new wheel/pedels and if I hadn't been quicker before I wouldn't have ever known because the loss in top speed was only 1-2 mph but I was 2 seconds off my best. Try recalebrating your wheel in GPL but when you calibrate the accelerator don't push is right to the end, then you will garentee that you get 100% throtle. Alex "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws 94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. Everything the other guys said. Plus: download GPL Dump, insert one of those alien hot shoe replays, insert a replay of your own and look at the resulting graph. You'll see EXACTLY where you lose time. Very educational. It's not going to help you make up 4 or 5 seconds, but at least you won't be at a loss anymore. Bye, Leo

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginableand > practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. Oh another hit-and-run by DGF. Isn't he nicely trolling these days? I've closed the gap and I really haven't spent such number of hours behind the wheel. You can accept the fact that like any other craft in the world, some people have more skills then others? Heck there is people SO better then myself. I've seen people GPL guys hop in N4 and set out incredbile fast times within 4-5 of their first laps. But hey, continue to be in your supposed "better simracing" world, all alone by yourself. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:57:40 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: GraDee, >Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of >virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? A "How to go quicker post". I know you said forget them but have you ever been taught how to drive a real race car? If you got a job drivin race cars for real how close do you think you'd be to the really quick guys? How long would it take you to get within 4-5 secs of them? Take a loko here http://users.bart.nl/~hansvd/school/ it may help you as it has helped others. Maxx PS. You still have to practice.

Okay here is my two cents worth. I like you stagnated in the high 1:29's at Monza thinking how the hell do I go any faster after the thousands of laps I have put in there. Then I tried some Wolfgang Woeger setups. I'm now consistant mid 1:28's. If I really tried I know I could do 1:27's. For me the improvements come from a stable driveable setup. It seems to work for Wolfgang too. Get a setup you feel good with and then spend the time enjoying the drive. You'll be surprised at the improved times. "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > > >

In article <94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]>, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> writes: >If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better ideas? >:-) > Use it as a frisbee - or maybe skeet shooting. I'll join ya!<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <94nsmm$6r7$[email hidden]>, "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws >94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... >> I'm going absolutely mental here, >> I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a >> loss. > >Everything the other guys said. Plus: download GPL Dump, insert one of those >alien hot shoe replays, insert a replay of your own and look at the >resulting graph. You'll see EXACTLY where you lose time. Very educational. >It's not going to help you make up 4 or 5 seconds, but at least you won't be >at a loss anymore. > >Bye, >Leo

I've looked at my laps with both ReplayAnalyzer and GPLDump. I also just compared a Kyalami lap from Alison. With few exceptions, all I see is that I brake earlier, and accelerate later. I'm not understanding how that helps me get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate any earlier... What am I missing here? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[snip] | I've looked at my laps with both ReplayAnalyzer and GPLDump. Ialso just | compared a Kyalami lap from Alison. With few exceptions, all Isee is that I | brake earlier, and accelerate later. I'm not understanding howthat helps me | get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate anyearlier... What | am I missing here? Er...talent, maybe? ;)

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:05:50 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable and >practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > >At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with something else. > >David G Fisher Hmmm... your F1CS2000 tip helped, thanks for that, so I'll let you get away with this one this time. Next time your ass is mine again! (figurely speaking!) Andre

On 25 Jan 2001 05:33:12 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >I've looked at my laps with both ReplayAnalyzer and GPLDump. I also just >compared a Kyalami lap from Alison. With few exceptions, all I see is that I >brake earlier, and accelerate later. I'm not understanding how that helps me >get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate any earlier... What >am I missing here? You CAN brake later Eldred! Use the famous trailbraking technique.. 1) Brake a little bit later than normal. 2) Normally there would be no way now to keep the car on the road, unless: 3) You don't release the brakes all the way when you enter a corner, but you keep pressing the brakes just a -little bit- 4) This does 2 things: you continue braking, hence you can still take the normally even when you braked later, and secondly, when you press the brakes -a little bit- this also helps the car turning in. Parabolica at Monza is an excellent place to practice this. I guess you normally brake when you are near the sign on you left? Well, download a fast replay and see where these guys brake. When you're exiting Para, try how far you can press the throttle without losing the rear. If you can add just a little bit more throttle, you will can a couple of 1/10s since you take this speed all the way with you to the next corner. When exiting Para, you'll notice that the car is turning to the right if you start to hit the throttle. For me it helps to steer just a lttle bit to the left so I can give more gas. Andre

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>Eldred >-- >Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

GraDee, Tim, What Tim said. I think mental attitude is most of it. Normally, I'm not very fast, but occasionally I find myself "in the Zone" (as real-world athletes say) and start going like stink without any conscious effort. Finding yer muse is the hard part (or yer mews, if you've had a few). --Steve Smith Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qCHb6.1665$[email hidden]...

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> Here is my advice: > > First, get rid of the "buggered" attitude. that alone is probably causing > you to lose some time. You end up going out on the track trying to make up > that couple seconds and it is killing you. I do the same :-) What I do now > is to just simply go on track and try to run some comfortable laps without > pushing the car. Eventually you just end up getting fater and faster each > day. I rarely adjust my setups (downloaded), just get to know the track

more > and more and picking down tose lap times. Can't say Im within 2 seconds of > the hot-lappers either, but I do well in the league I am running. > > Second, your equipment will make a big difference. The faster the PC the > more accurate you can be with braking, turning, error corrections, etc.The > faster you are with htose things, the better/faster you are going to go. A > good wheel/pedal combo makes a huge difference in control over yourvehicle. > > Third, download some replays. I have learned more about my lack of speedsby > watching my competitors either in a replay or behind him/her on the track. > Where they brake later and how, where they get through the turns fasterand > so on. I find myself slower in some turns but faster in others, and thatmay > be directly related to the setup. > > Fourth, setup. I like very soft setups (probably because I come with moreof > the Nascar related background) then most. They stick better but aren't as > responsive. Forces me to run a little higher ride height, but I like that > too. I also like big camber setups and nice even gearing. If I can workout > a good (not spectacular) handling car then I can make up for thedifference > in driving (let me retain this lie to myself guys, its the only thing > keeping me up front) > > I have had GPL since release in '98, but never really got around to any > serious racing in it 'till just the past 2 months. I have always enjoyedGPL > just didnt want to invest the amount of time it took to create the setups > (plus I suck at setup creation). So I downloaded Allison Hine's F2 Ferrari > setups and soon found myself running better then her own times that she > lists with her setups. I then downloaded a few other's setups and found a > set that matches my style a bit more and now am able to run in the leadpack

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> at most any track that our league visits. I have decided to stick with the > F2 cars for pure enjoyment though, less HP, closer racing, and you can > really throw the car around and have a blast doing it. > > > "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > : I'm going absolutely mental here, > : I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > : loss. > : > : Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > : On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > : say, Monza... > : I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a > seconds > : advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is

a > : lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > : hotlap in most sims... > : But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 secondgap > : that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes atthe

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> : 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from > (almost) > : day 1! > : > : Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > : virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > : > : I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away

at

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> : such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being > released... > : this is madness! > : > : If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better > ideas? > : :-) > : > : > >

Same thing here. When I try to go hard and concentrate I'm not getting anywhere because I'm trying to push the limit further and further every lap. When I'm not concentrating on hotlapping and just drive some constant easy laps the best times seem to come so easely. Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws cWUb6.39071$[email hidden]...

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> GraDee, Tim, > > What Tim said. I think mental attitude is most of it. Normally, I'm not > very fast, but occasionally I find myself "in the Zone" (as real-world > athletes say) and start going like stink without any conscious effort. > Finding yer muse is the hard part (or yer mews, if you've had a few). > > --Steve Smith > > Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:qCHb6.1665$[email hidden]... > > Here is my advice: > > > > First, get rid of the "buggered" attitude. that alone is probably

causing > > you to lose some time. You end up going out on the track trying to makeup > > that couple seconds and it is killing you. I do the same :-) What I donow > > is to just simply go on track and try to run some comfortable lapswithout > > pushing the car. Eventually you just end up getting fater and fastereach > > day. I rarely adjust my setups (downloaded), just get to know the track > more > > and more and picking down tose lap times. Can't say Im within 2 secondsof > > the hot-lappers either, but I do well in the league I am running. > > > > Second, your equipment will make a big difference. The faster the PC the > > more accurate you can be with braking, turning, error corrections, etc. > The > > faster you are with htose things, the better/faster you are going to go.A > > good wheel/pedal combo makes a huge difference in control over your > vehicle. > > > > Third, download some replays. I have learned more about my lack ofspeeds > by > > watching my competitors either in a replay or behind him/her on thetrack.

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> > Where they brake later and how, where they get through the turns faster > and > > so on. I find myself slower in some turns but faster in others, and that > may > > be directly related to the setup. > > > > Fourth, setup. I like very soft setups (probably because I come with

more > of > > the Nascar related background) then most. They stick better but aren'tas > > responsive. Forces me to run a little higher ride height, but I likethat

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> > too. I also like big camber setups and nice even gearing. If I can work > out > > a good (not spectacular) handling car then I can make up for the > difference > > in driving (let me retain this lie to myself guys, its the only thing > > keeping me up front) > > > > I have had GPL since release in '98, but never really got around to any > > serious racing in it 'till just the past 2 months. I have always enjoyed > GPL > > just didnt want to invest the amount of time it took to create the

setups > > (plus I suck at setup creation). So I downloaded Allison Hine's F2Ferrari > > setups and soon found myself running better then her own times that she > > lists with her setups. I then downloaded a few other's setups and founda > > set that matches my style a bit more and now am able to run in the lead > pack > > at most any track that our league visits. I have decided to stick withthe

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> > F2 cars for pure enjoyment though, less HP, closer racing, and you can > > really throw the car around and have a blast doing it. > > > > > > "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > > : I'm going absolutely mental here, > > : I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at

a > > : loss. > > : > > : Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > > : On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best timesat > > : say, Monza... > > : I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a > > seconds > > : advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 secondsis

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> a > > : lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > > : hotlap in most sims... > > : But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second > gap > > : that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at > the > > : 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from > > (almost) > > : day 1! > > : > > : Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > > : virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > : > > : I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away > at > > : such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being > > released... > > : this is madness! > > : > > : If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better > > ideas? > > : :-) > > : > > : > > > > > >

What's that thing with those brake balances btw? I heard the real hotshoes put the brake balance so far back because they can modulate the brake balance by applying throttle while braking (and so putting less brake to the rear wheels)! I think that's total madness! GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws 94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:08:03 GMT, "Tim Vanhee" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What's that thing with those brake balances btw? I heard the real hotshoes >put the brake balance so far back because they can modulate the brake >balance by applying throttle while braking (and so putting less brake to the >rear wheels)! I think that's total madness! Tim, No, it's not quite as straightforward as that. I posted quite a long reply to a post on a similar subject. It was either so good it astounded everyone, or so bad they thought .. what the hell and carried on with whatever they are doing, as it stopped the thread dead. Here it is again anyway. Maxx [posted to r.a.s. 16.01.01 in response to a thread :] Re: Do real race car drivers stay on the throttle when Braking ? NO! On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:10:46 -0000, "Alexpez" <[email hidden]> wrote: >so, in the papyurus sims we've now got that use the cracking GPL phys >engine, i have to ask whether the driving techniques used in these can be >used in real life. Well, I think it's very clear that you can do some things in GPL that a) wouldn't work in real-life and b) if they did would have major impact on tire adn brake wear. >Firstly, let me state that trail braking is moving from the throttle to the >brake prior to a corner, getting most braking done in a straight line, then >comming off the brake a little and turning into the corner (notice i didnt >mention throttle after the brake was touched) Your definition of trail-braking is perfect, however, to trail-brake into a fast (>80mph) corner you must have some gas on so as to keep the rears from going really light, losing traction and sending the car into oversteer. >In GPL and especially N4 it is easier to go into corners with a loose and >quick car by pressing the brake whilst letting off the accelerator, and >keeping a little throttle on the whole time (the GPL people will say 'you >are dynamically altering brake bias', to which i would say ' you dont do >that in real life') I'm not sure I fully understand that. Certainly you are not altering the brake bias, that is fixed in GPL Most formula cars in real-life do have cockpit brake-bias adjusters however. What you are doing by providing power to the rear wheels whilst braking is altering the weight balance under braking. If the weight of the car stayed as it was at rest with more weight over the rear tires you would set brake balance more rearward. You may add a few extra clicks rearward as well as you have a greater contact patch at the rear. Howver, under throttle off braking the weight is shifted dramatically foward, so we need to give the brakes a more forward bias, plus it is always preferable for fronts to lose traction fractionally before rears (although we don't want either of course). This means we are braking much more with our skinny frint-tyres than the wide rears. By providing power to the rears we shift the weight balance under braking more rearward, hence we need to move our brake balance more rearward to compensate. We in effect get a greater braking force which, although it has to brake more (as we are still pushing the car forward with power) does in fact provide overall, a greater degree of retardation. Theres a whole load of factors that go into this, but GPL cars would I suspect, by nature of their realtively poor brake performance and disparity between front and rear tire contact patches, benefit greatly from this. I should stress that we are talking partial throttle here, probably no more than 25% as suggested in another post. I've used this myself in single seaters, specifically Formual Ford, Vauxhall Junior and Vauxhall Lotus but more for it's other benefit of stabilising the car under heavy braking. With very little weight on the rears any inblance in the car is likely to "wag the tail". Especially noticable on the FF/FVJ as these where wingless car (as GPL of course). The FVLs where winged cars and I probably didn't need to do this, but perhaps did it out of habit The lower the cars CoG (centre of gravity) the less of a problem this forward movement of weight is under heavy braking (I'm sure theres a formula for this) so with aerodynamic, very low sling modern formula cars I doubt this is an issue. It has an added benefit in GPL, assuming you left-foot brake (the above was done using heel & toe) in that it allows you to fine tune your corner entry speed a little better. If you do brake with a little gas, if you brake a little late you can come off (the gas) just before the turn-in point and get a little extra retardation, thus still make the corner cleanly. If you brake a little early you can give it a little more gas, keeping you speed a little higher so as the enter the corner at the optimum speed. This is MUCH more preferable to coming off the brake earlier or backing off the brake as a) it's more difficult to do and b) you'll take weight away from the front which will compromise front-end grip, which you need for corner entry, so you'll wash-out Argh! this has turned into another lecture, I knew it was fatal to start responding. In Summary, YES gas+brake is used in real life and B) I do think (but don't know) that the GPL Physics engine is flawed in the way it responds to very heavy simultaneous use of gas + brake. Oops theres more : >so, is it just a matter of implementing proper brake wear into papyrus sims >that would dissuade people from this bad habit? Or is there a moer >fundamental problem with the papyrus phys engine?See above. Brake fade would be really interesting. >pez wants a discussion, as pez loves GPL, its tought me alot, and im racing >cars this year, dont want to learn bad habits from computer games. What Cars pez? where? Maxx

Leo Landman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94nsmm$6r7$[email hidden]...

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> > GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > 94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > > I'm going absolutely mental here, > > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > > loss. > > Everything the other guys said. Plus: download GPL Dump, insert one of

those > alien hot shoe replays, insert a replay of your own and look at the > resulting graph. You'll see EXACTLY where you lose time. Very educational. > It's not going to help you make up 4 or 5 seconds, but at least you won'tbe > at a loss anymore. > I've been using the replay analyser as well as spygirl to compare laps back to back, the difficulty is that I'm getting nowhere out on track. It's easy to see where you are loosing time but when I try to accelerate earlier or brake later or whatever it usually understeers out... I get that problem a lot. All set-ups I use have too much understeer. Simple solution is to go slower in corners but i know that a "Huttu" set-up allows you take a corner faster, problem is: it snaps out to easily to learn with. Catch 22. I can get a newbie taking advice and gradually building up pace but I've had it from day one and have hit a brick wall... I've gone beyond practice practice, if GPL had frequent flyer miles I'm be in the Bahama's right now :-)

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <94nsmm$6r7$[email hidden]>, "Leo Landman"<[email hidden]> > writes: > > >GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > >94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > >> I'm going absolutely mental here, > >> I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really ata > >> loss. > > > >Everything the other guys said. Plus: download GPL Dump, insert one ofthose > >alien hot shoe replays, insert a replay of your own and look at the > >resulting graph. You'll see EXACTLY where you lose time. Veryeducational. > >It's not going to help you make up 4 or 5 seconds, but at least you won'tbe

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> >at a loss anymore. > > > >Bye, > >Leo > > I've looked at my laps with both ReplayAnalyzer and GPLDump. I also just > compared a Kyalami lap from Alison. With few exceptions, all I see is

that I > brake earlier, and accelerate later. I'm not understanding how that helpsme > get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate any earlier...What > am I missing here? > Spot on Eldred... that's the exact problem... I am able to brake to the max after long long time of perfecting this but I still can't brake as late as the fastest and thats obviously loosing time. I find that I take the long right-hander in the middle of Kylami (I forget the name sorry) in 2nd struggling with understeer... I watch top laps of Kya and they just shot it from 4th to 2nd and keep the pedal floored and into a big power slide by turning in early and lettnig it understeer... I can't do this, wheels, lock, car spins.. I'm missing something and I think it's those firestones!

Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:57:40 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > GraDee, > > >Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > >virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > A "How to go quicker post". > > I know you said forget them but have you ever been taught how to drive > a real race car? If you got a job drivin race cars for real how close > do you think you'd be to the really quick guys? How long would it take > you to get within 4-5 secs of them? > > Take a loko here http://users.bart.nl/~hansvd/school/ it may help you > as it has helped others. >

Not a kart, but yes a kart... I know basic lines, braking, trail-braking, accelerating. I'm not the fastest in the world but i know what each is and how to do it. I know it'd take a while to compete with top guys in a real car if i just stepped into it but if after 3 years I'm still way off I might as well give up. That's what annoys me about GPL, I'm not a newbie to sims, or real racing, I am not that far behind in any other sim and after 3 years of practice I've hit a brick wall... I must be doing something very fundamental wrong... Of course my Driving style could improve but i'm not talking tenths, after tons of practice and you are still loosing 3 seconds there is something very wrong that basic practice can't sort... I'm stumped.

I think you need to ignore the top laps and find replays from somebody who's just a bit (a second?) faster than you, then try to catch them. Then you can find a faster one again and work your way up. I use hotlap replays to get an idea of line and gearing but I know I have NO way of matching the entry and exit speeds. Line is the key - no matter how good you get at braking if you're off line you're not going to get through fast. Rob (who at -3.93 is still 83 seconds slower than Greger Huttu and never going to get much closer :) "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94ps8m$i7j$[email hidden]... > I watch top laps of Kya and they just shot it from 4th to 2nd and keep the > pedal floored and into a big power slide by turning in early and lettnigit > understeer... I can't do this, wheels, lock, car spins.. I'm missing > something and I think it's those firestones!

What might that 'something else' be? Marty David G Fisher wrote:

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> If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable and > practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > > At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with something else. > > David G Fisher > > "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > > I'm going absolutely mental here, > > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > > loss. > > > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > > say, Monza... > > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a > seconds > > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > > hotlap in most sims... > > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from > (almost) > > day 1! > > > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being > released... > > this is madness! > > > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better > ideas? > > :-) > > > >

Hemorrhoids? Hand cramps? Eye strain? Divorce? "Marty U'Ren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What might that 'something else' be? > > Marty > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable

and > > practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > > > > At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with somethingelse.

Some drivers have an inbuilt ability to go fast almost immediately in whatever vehicle/sim they drive, other drivers have to work hard to get to a decent laptime. And then there are people who, however hard they try, can never seem to go fast!! Nobody wants to think that they are never going to be fast, so in the end, unless you give up, it's down to how much work you are prepared to put in... After running GPL for 2 years, I am only an "average" driver with a GPLrank of -12. I was never a "natural talent" and had to work hard on my driving to get to this point. At first i thought, "Ahh it must be my underpowered PC, or my wheel isn't accurate enough", but after all this time I can only come to the conclusion that I am not naturally fast. I try hotlapper setups but I can't drive them because I am all over the road and crash often.... why?... because I don't drive in the same way that the hotlappers do. If I sat at their PC, with their setup and their posture and their wheel and pedals would i be as fast as them? No. We drive in different ways, and their way is faster than mine!!! Could I adapt my technique until it matched the hotlappers techinique? Well, I tried, but after many months it still didn't seem natural and I still couldn't be consistent. Yes, I managed to knock a few tenths off a few laptimes, but I couldn't RACE properly, because it wasn't "instinctive" or "comfortable". And, I never got close to their fastest times. When I watch a really fast lap replay, I notice that to get those times you have to be on the "limit" ALL the way round the track. EVERY corner must be taken at the optimal speed. This is the ONLY way to be the fastest and I cannot do it. I will often make mistakes and lose the car on the limit. This is because their limit is faster than mine. I practice as much as I can but my limit is still lower than theirs. "Know your limits" My solution?? - I drive within MY limits, and spend time making setups that feel comfortable to ME, whilst keeping me fast enough to be happy. My cars understeer far too much in comparison to the fast guys, or I have to brake earlier than them, but I keep it on the track and usually finish in the top 6. Exactly how did I do this? Well I took hotlapper setups and "dumbed them down" until I could drive them consistently and comfortably. This may mean making the steering ratio higher so the wheel is less twitchy. The car is easier to drive but harder to recover from a spin, so I then dumb down the handling so the car doesnt want to spin as much. Or I learn how to drive a twitchy setup safely, by staying well within the limits and never giving the car the opportunity to get into a slide.. okay, its slower, but it keeps me on the track and in the race. I learn to drive my (slower) setup using ALL racing lines on a circuit, lapping both ON the racing line, and practising driving OFF the racing line in each corner, so I don't get caught out when I'm fighting with another car. If I can do 11 laps of monza doing 1:29s and staying on the track, I can beat a car who runs 1:28s and spins once or twice. So to sum up, since I accepted that I would never be the fastest, I have had to make the most of what I have to work with. A lot of people would say that this is NOT a winners attitude, but the attitude of a loser. In REAL racing this is probably true, as I wouldn't be fast enough for a racing team to keep me employed. But, in sim racing it means I win a few, I lose a few and I do well in a lot of races, but most importantly, I am HAPPY! All the best, Lol SpeedFreek (UKGPL league admin and Division 2 driver) UKGPL http://www.ukgpl.com GPL Rank: -12.15 107% Average: 104.434% http://www.speedfreek.clubferrari.com

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: <SNIP> > I've looked at my laps with both ReplayAnalyzer and GPLDump. I alsojust > compared a Kyalami lap from Alison. With few exceptions, all I seeis that I > brake earlier, and accelerate later. I'm not understanding how thathelps me > get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate anyearlier... What > am I missing here? > > Eldred > -- Eldred, Your K6-3 system is really hurting you here -- when I upgraded to my current Duron 750 system, I was ASTOUNDED at how much more responsive EVERYTHING was. With my K6-2 500 system I got a SOLID 36 fps in GPL when hot lapping (and similar fps everywhere else except during starts), but even so, the difference in throttle and steering responsiveness with my Duron system was absolutely, totally amazing in comparison. I was using a PDPI L4 game card in my K6-2 system, and I'm now simply using the on-board game and sound ports on my Duron motherboard, and the Duron system is even MORE responsive and stable than the K6-2/PDPI combination. This tells me that even though I was getting 36 fps, there were still aspects of the GPL game engine that still weren't really running optimally on the K6-2 system. With your current system, you might not be able to brake any later or accelerate any earlier, but that may be a limitation of your hardware. Just my $0.02. -- JB F1CS2K Rank 82.679 http://f1cs2krank.dhs.org/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

In article <94psm8$ifl$[email hidden]>, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: <SNIP> > Not a kart, but yes a kart... I know basic lines, braking, trail-braking, > accelerating. I'm not the fastest in the world but i know what eachis and > how to do it. > I know it'd take a while to compete with top guys in a real car if ijust > stepped into it but if after 3 years I'm still way off I might aswell give > up. > > That's what annoys me about GPL, I'm not a newbie to sims, or realracing, I > am not that far behind in any other sim and after 3 years of practiceI've > hit a brick wall... > I must be doing something very fundamental wrong... Of course myDriving > style could improve but i'm not talking tenths, after tons ofpractice and > you are still loosing 3 seconds there is something very wrong thatbasic > practice can't sort... I'm stumped. I suspect it's a case of "too much of the same thing" -- you've probably learned too many "bad" habits at this point, and now you've hit a pleateu because you can't get move past what you've already "learned." I've found that sometimes just getting away from any given sim and doing something else for a while (including even -- GASP! -- going on vacation and NOT doing any sim racing for a week or so) can actually cause more improvements than hour after hour of practice. After playing DTR my times improved in GPL; after playing NFSPU, my times improved in GPL; after playing F12K, my times improved in GPL. Sometimes you learn things in other sims, and getting away from GPL for a while gives you a chance to "un-learn" what you know and get back to basics when you return. When you do what comes naturally, as opposed to what you've "learned" to do (sometimes unnaturally), then things sometimes seem to flow a bit better, and that's where you make improvements and learn new techniques. -- JB F1CS2K Rank 82.679 http://f1cs2krank.dhs.org/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

and the really quick guys run brake bias settings thatd kill real people in real cars, they are on the brake and accelerator into bends, and it seems to give you loads of front end grip in the game (try it in real life guys) granted, some of the real quick guys can run quick with single axis pedals, but most cant. pez GraDee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]...

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> I'm going absolutely mental here, > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > loss. > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > say, Monza... > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a

seconds > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > hotlap in most sims... > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from(almost)

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> day 1! > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being

released... > this is madness! > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any betterideas? > :-) > >

In article <94oq5o$1522m$[email hidden]>, "Alt" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>[snip] > >| I've looked at my laps with both ReplayAnalyzer and GPLDump. I >also just >| compared a Kyalami lap from Alison. With few exceptions, all I >see is that I >| brake earlier, and accelerate later. I'm not understanding how >that helps me >| get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate any >earlier... What >| am I missing here? > >Er...talent, maybe? ;) >

Damn, that's cold...>shiver< Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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>You CAN brake later Eldred! Use the famous trailbraking technique.. >1) Brake a little bit later than normal. >2) Normally there would be no way now to keep the car on the road, >unless: >3) You don't release the brakes all the way when you enter a corner, >but you keep pressing the brakes just a -little bit- >4) This does 2 things: you continue braking, hence you can still take >the normally even when you braked later, and secondly, when you press >the brakes -a little bit- this also helps the car turning in. > >Parabolica at Monza is an excellent place to practice this. I guess >you normally brake when you are near the sign on you left? >Well, download a fast replay and see where these guys brake. >

They brake(from memory) about 3-4 car lengths later. I haven't been able to do that yet. I think I've moved my braking point from right before the sign, to right after the sign. So I've gained about 1 car length in 2 years...<g> I'm still trying to figure how how people can brake so MUCH later without eating a hedge... It just doesn't seem possible. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

That is very good advice, I became seriously annoyed at my lack of improvement in GPL, so annoyed that I hardly touched it for 12 months (excluding the odd online or league race every once in a while). When I finally came back and tried a few tracks I was immediately close to my PB at Monza, and actually beat my Zandvoort PB by 0.5 of a second. -- Thanks Ian Parker <email invalid due to spam> (GPL Rank -34 ish) <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94q1en$23d$[email hidden]... > I suspect it's a case of "too much of the same thing" -- you've > probably learned too many "bad" habits at this point, and now you've > hit a pleateu because you can't get move past what you've > already "learned." I've found that sometimes just getting away from > any given sim and doing something else for a while (including even -- > GASP! -- going on vacation and NOT doing any sim racing for a week or > so) can actually cause more improvements than hour after hour of > practice. > -- JB > F1CS2K Rank 82.679 > http://f1cs2krank.dhs.org/ > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

EldredP <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]... > I'm not understanding how that helps me > get faster, because I can't brake any later, or accelerate any earlier...What > am I missing here? At least you know WHY you're slower (which was Gradee's problem). Experiment with setups or even control settings that allow you to brake later and accelerate safer. Learn to drift and power slide. Like I said, knowing what's wrong is not going to guarantee you'll be able to replicate one of Greger's laps. But at least you know where to start. Bye, Leo

GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws 94ps1n$i0e$[email hidden]... > It's easy to see where you are loosing time but when I try to accelerateearlier or brake later or whatever it usually understeers out... Sounds like you're driving much too carefully. When you feed in throttle at speeds where the rear tyres are nowhere near breaking traction, all the car will do is drive straight ahead. Maybe you just have to be more agressive and hang the tail out. This is much easier with rock hard springs/rollbars and 6 clutches. Less grip but a lot more control. Try a change of tack and experiment with hard setups, not forgetting the brake bias. Bye, Leo

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message I'm > still trying to figure how how people can brake so MUCH later without > eating a hedge... It just doesn't seem possible. > > Eldred Thats because the ALL MUST CHEAT! We must have been napping the day the "GPL Brake whenever you damn well feel like it" Utility was released. And some vast right or left wing conspiracy is keeping EVERYONE silent. Probably blackmailing them all with pictures of their mothers.... dave henrie

"> After running GPL for 2 years, I am only an "average" driver with a > GPLrank of -12 ^^^ I think it's time for another.... <sigh..........> dave henrie

> Eldred, > Your K6-3 system is really hurting you here Agree. Please upgrade Eldred, its only a few hundred bux. rms [email hidden]

In article <94q04i$qh$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>Eldred, > >Your K6-3 system is really hurting you here -- when I upgraded to my >current Duron 750 system, I was ASTOUNDED at how much more responsive >EVERYTHING was. With my K6-2 500 system I got a SOLID 36 fps in GPL >when hot lapping (and similar fps everywhere else except during >starts), but even so, the difference in throttle and steering >responsiveness with my Duron system was absolutely, totally amazing in >comparison. I was using a PDPI L4 game card in my K6-2 system, and I'm >now simply using the on-board game and sound ports on my Duron >motherboard, and the Duron system is even MORE responsive and stable >than the K6-2/PDPI combination. This tells me that even though I was >getting 36 fps, there were still aspects of the GPL game engine that >still weren't really running optimally on the K6-2 system. > >With your current system, you might not be able to brake any later or >accelerate any earlier, but that may be a limitation of your hardware. > >Just my $0.02.

I hate to blame my system...I just figure I suck as a driver. I can't believe there's that much difference between 35-36 fps on a 400mhz and 36fps on a 750mhz+. That sucks - I won't be able to buy another system soon. Hell, I may as well put GPL back on the shelf... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <94psm8$ifl$[email hidden]>, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> writes: >I must be doing something very fundamental wrong... Of course my Driving >style could improve but i'm not talking tenths, after tons of practice and >you are still loosing 3 seconds there is something very wrong that basic >practice can't sort... I'm stumped. Geez, *I* could've written this too... Believe me, I *know* how you feel. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > In article <94q04i$qh$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: > > >Eldred, > > > >Your K6-3 system is really hurting you here -- when I upgraded to my <SNIP> > >With your current system, you might not be able to brake any later or > >accelerate any earlier, but that may be a limitation of yourhardware. > > > >Just my $0.02. > > I hate to blame my system...I just figure I suck as a driver. Ican't believe > there's that much difference between 35-36 fps on a 400mhz and 36fpson a > 750mhz+. That sucks - I won't be able to buy another system soon.Hell, I may > as well put GPL back on the shelf... :( Don't take this as absolute gospel, Eldred -- neither you nor your system "sucks," but in both cases, there is room for improvement. I wouldn't view an upgrade as "mandatory" in your case. Your rank is pretty darn good (if you ask me), and you're at the point where improvement comes in hundredths of a second, not tenths, so improvements will come more slowly for you at this point. Also, for every hundredth of a second that you can eke out now, that might translate into tenths or actual seconds if or when you get around to upgrading, so don't shelve GPL (or anything else), and don't feel that a hardware upgrade is an absolute necessity. Take my other advice to heart before you view hardware as your Holy Grail -- get away from GPL for a bit, play around with other stuff, learn some new tricks there, and after you've had a chance to forget the bad habits you've learned in GPL, then get back into it and do what comes naturally . . . drive fast(er)! Now, if you have F12K or the F1CS2K demo, download my "All Chassis" patch and check out the McLaren. THAT should make for a pleasant diversion from GPL, and you just might learn a thing or two there that might help in GPL. Or maybe you'll just have a bit of fun for a change. <G> ;-) -- JB F1CS2K Rank 78.787 http://f1cs2krank.dhs.org/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

[email hidden] (ymenard) wrote: > Isn't he nicely trolling these days? Everyone should have a hobby. Andrew McP

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > What am I missing here? Maybe you've just peaked? :-) Everyone has a slightly different reaction time, and the guys with "instant" reflexes are the lucky ones in many sports/activities... apart from sex maybe :-> Andrew McP... no good at driving or sex

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:25:04 -0000, "Alexpez" <[email hidden]> wrote: >and the really quick guys run brake bias settings thatd kill real people in >real cars, they are on the brake and accelerator into bends, and it seems to >give you loads of front end grip in the game (try it in real life guys) Yep, this is my assessment of their style too. Just look at GH's WR lap of Mosport. It's positively insane! If a real car can be driven(fast) like that I'll buy a hat and eat it. It is actually very similar to a 4WD world rally car in the way they rotate the car through the whole corner. A WRC on _gravel_, that is. >granted, some of the real quick guys can run quick with single axis pedals, >but most cant. Yes, I know a guy at about -65 that runs single axis. He also has 58-60% brake bias! Crazy... /Magnus GPLRank hcp: -39.44

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> > No, it's not quite as straightforward as that. I posted quite a long > reply to a post on a similar subject. It was either so good it > astounded everyone, or so bad they thought .. what the hell > and carried on with whatever they are doing, as it stopped > the thread dead. >

Wow... thanks very interesting read. I'm gonna try it out in a minute. I think you didn't get a lot of replys because they where all stunned by your explanation ;)

On 25 Jan 2001 22:29:18 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > >I'm >still trying to figure how how people can brake so MUCH later without eating a >hedge... It just doesn't seem possible. "To better slow down, brake less you must" - Fangioda I'm serious. Don't push too hard on the brake pedal. I very seldom push it farther than 50% down. Just another of those counter-intuitive thingies, I guess... Richard. -- Richard Bellavance Enter-Net Inc. Phone: (450) 449-5261 #16 Systems Administrator/ (514) 990-1683 #16 Analyst-Programmer Fax: (450) 449-5242

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:05:50 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable and >practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. >At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with something else. Really? How many hours do you think Herr Schumacher has "driven" to be as good as he is? Practice makes perfect - people are no less worthy for doing it. John

they are on brake and accelerator....it gives you a nice and stable car in GPL and N4....something not right with the phys.... pez EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden](Andre

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> Warringa) writes: > > >You CAN brake later Eldred! Use the famous trailbraking technique.. > >1) Brake a little bit later than normal. > >2) Normally there would be no way now to keep the car on the road, > >unless: > >3) You don't release the brakes all the way when you enter a corner, > >but you keep pressing the brakes just a -little bit- > >4) This does 2 things: you continue braking, hence you can still take > >the normally even when you braked later, and secondly, when you press > >the brakes -a little bit- this also helps the car turning in. > > > >Parabolica at Monza is an excellent place to practice this. I guess > >you normally brake when you are near the sign on you left? > >Well, download a fast replay and see where these guys brake. > > > > They brake(from memory) about 3-4 car lengths later. I haven't been able

to do > that yet. I think I've moved my braking point from right before the sign,to > right after the sign. So I've gained about 1 car length in 2 years...<g>I'm > still trying to figure how how people can brake so MUCH later withouteating a

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> hedge... It just doesn't seem possible. > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

nothnig to do with the dodgy physics around BRAKING AND THROTTLING UP at the same time? seems to give you a nice balanced car in gpl and n4, but doesnt work so well in real life. pez SpeedFreek <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94puam$mgs$[email hidden]...

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> Some drivers have an inbuilt ability to go fast almost immediately in > whatever vehicle/sim they drive, other drivers have to work hard to > get to a decent laptime. And then there are people who, however > hard they try, can never seem to go fast!! Nobody wants to think that > they are never going to be fast, so in the end, unless you give up, it's > down to how much work you are prepared to put in... > > After running GPL for 2 years, I am only an "average" driver with a > GPLrank of -12. I was never a "natural talent" and had to work hard > on my driving to get to this point. At first i thought, "Ahh it must be > my underpowered PC, or my wheel isn't accurate enough", but after > all this time I can only come to the conclusion that I am not naturally > fast. I try hotlapper setups but I can't drive them because I am all > over the road and crash often.... why?... because I don't drive in the > same way that the hotlappers do. If I sat at their PC, with their setup > and their posture and their wheel and pedals would i be as fast as > them? No. We drive in different ways, and their way is faster than > mine!!! Could I adapt my technique until it matched the hotlappers > techinique? Well, I tried, but after many months it still didn't seem > natural and I still couldn't be consistent. Yes, I managed to knock a > few tenths off a few laptimes, but I couldn't RACE properly, because > it wasn't "instinctive" or "comfortable". And, I never got close to their > fastest times. > > When I watch a really fast lap replay, I notice that to get those times > you have to be on the "limit" ALL the way round the track. EVERY > corner must be taken at the optimal speed. This is the ONLY way to > be the fastest and I cannot do it. I will often make mistakes and > lose the car on the limit. This is because their limit is faster than

mine.

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> I practice as much as I can but my limit is still lower than theirs. > > "Know your limits" > > My solution?? - I drive within MY limits, and spend time making setups > that feel comfortable to ME, whilst keeping me fast enough to be happy. > My cars understeer far too much in comparison to the fast guys, or I have > to brake earlier than them, but I keep it on the track and usually finish

in

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> the top 6. > > Exactly how did I do this? Well I took hotlapper setups and "dumbed them > down" until I could drive them consistently and comfortably. This may mean > making the steering ratio higher so the wheel is less twitchy. The car is > easier to drive but harder to recover from a spin, so I then dumb down the > handling so the car doesnt want to spin as much. Or I learn how to drive > a twitchy setup safely, by staying well within the limits and never giving > the car the opportunity to get into a slide.. okay, its slower, but it

keeps > me on the track and in the race. I learn to drive my (slower) setup using > ALL racing lines on a circuit, lapping both ON the racing line, and > practising driving OFF the racing line in each corner, so I don't getcaught

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> out when I'm fighting with another car. If I can do 11 laps of monza doing > 1:29s and staying on the track, I can beat a car who runs 1:28s and spins > once or twice. > > So to sum up, since I accepted that I would never be the fastest, I have > had to make the most of what I have to work with. A lot of people would > say that this is NOT a winners attitude, but the attitude of a loser. > In REAL racing this is probably true, as I wouldn't be fast enough for > a racing team to keep me employed. But, in sim racing it means > I win a few, I lose a few and I do well in a lot of races, but most > importantly, I am HAPPY! > > All the best, > > Lol SpeedFreek > (UKGPL league admin and Division 2 driver) > > UKGPL http://www.ukgpl.com > GPL Rank: -12.15 107% Average: 104.434% > http://www.speedfreek.clubferrari.com > > > >

yeah but maxx, the really quick gpl and n4 guys are staying on the throttle whilst braking and getting a very stable car with loads of grip front and rear. i dont remember ever being taught that at silverstone? pez Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:57:40 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > GraDee, > > >Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > >virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > A "How to go quicker post". > > I know you said forget them but have you ever been taught how to drive > a real race car? If you got a job drivin race cars for real how close > do you think you'd be to the really quick guys? How long would it take > you to get within 4-5 secs of them? > > Take a loko here http://users.bart.nl/~hansvd/school/ it may help you > as it has helped others. > > Maxx > > PS. You still have to practice.

yep, you could be staying on the throttle whilst braking a la the really quick guys. GPL has a big flaw pez GraDee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94psm8$ifl$[email hidden]...

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> > Maxx <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:57:40 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > GraDee, > > > > >Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > > >virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > > > A "How to go quicker post". > > > > I know you said forget them but have you ever been taught how to drive > > a real race car? If you got a job drivin race cars for real how close > > do you think you'd be to the really quick guys? How long would it take > > you to get within 4-5 secs of them? > > > > Take a loko here http://users.bart.nl/~hansvd/school/ it may help you > > as it has helped others. > > > > Not a kart, but yes a kart... I know basic lines, braking, trail-braking, > accelerating. I'm not the fastest in the world but i know what each is and > how to do it. > I know it'd take a while to compete with top guys in a real car if i just > stepped into it but if after 3 years I'm still way off I might as well

give > up. > > That's what annoys me about GPL, I'm not a newbie to sims, or real racing,I

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> am not that far behind in any other sim and after 3 years of practice I've > hit a brick wall... > I must be doing something very fundamental wrong... Of course my Driving > style could improve but i'm not talking tenths, after tons of practice and > you are still loosing 3 seconds there is something very wrong that basic > practice can't sort... I'm stumped. > >

In article <94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]>, GraDee <[email hidden]> writes

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>I'm going absolutely mental here, >I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a >loss. > >Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. >On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at >say, Monza... >I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a seconds >advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is a >lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good >hotlap in most sims... >But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 second gap >that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes at the >'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from (almost) >day 1! > >Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of >virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > >I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away at >such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being released... >this is madness! > >If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better ideas? >:-) > >

The thing is that they are not *that* much faster than you than you believe. I reckoned that for every 1mph extra speed through every corner on an average length circuit, that this would equate to about a half a second quicker lap time. So, if you have 1 guy averaging 100mph through a all corners and the 2nd guy averaging 98mph through all corners (which on a replay would be almost unnoticable), the first guy's lap would be a whole second quicker, and in racing, as we know, a second is a lifetime. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

do you keep your foot on the accelerator whislt braking? pez Semi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94nnau$rj2$[email hidden]...

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> > > : > > : If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better > > ideas? > > : :-) > > : > > :Give muttley a bone > Even tho i'm a good 5 seconds behind the rest of the pack, and always last > on the grid, I love the online races , > Practice? > Bollocks!!! > you either have it or you dont ,and I certainly dont have it. maybe i'll > improve but after 6 months trying i dont think I will.but it doesnt get me > down, sometimes i'll battle with a racer of equal skill and i 'll bet i

get

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> as much pleasure and thrills as i would being a front runner > > Its all part of racing, theres the Hakkinens and Shumi's > and theres us > > Crap but loving every minute. > > Semi > > www.beatroute.freeserve.co.uk > > > > > > > >

no i dont keep my foot on the gas, my pedal set up wont allow it as there is only one pot inside the pedal box, (i know this because i had to replace it) so keeping the throttle pedal depressed when braking would just be the same as not pressing any pedals at all. Alexpez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94sg5e$cj1$[email hidden]...

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> do you keep your foot on the accelerator whislt braking? > > pez > Semi <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:94nnau$rj2$[email hidden]... > > > > > : > > > : If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any

better > > > ideas? > > > : :-) > > > : > > > :Give muttley a bone > > Even tho i'm a good 5 seconds behind the rest of the pack, and alwayslast > > on the grid, I love the online races , > > Practice? > > Bollocks!!! > > you either have it or you dont ,and I certainly dont have it. maybe i'll > > improve but after 6 months trying i dont think I will.but it doesnt getme

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> > down, sometimes i'll battle with a racer of equal skill and i 'll bet i > get > > as much pleasure and thrills as i would being a front runner > > > > Its all part of racing, theres the Hakkinens and Shumi's > > and theres us > > > > Crap but loving every minute. > > > > Semi > > > > www.beatroute.freeserve.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I think you might have missed my point, or maybe I was a bit ambiguous.. ;o) In a nutshell, what I meant was that however much you practice doing ANYTHING, you can't improve forever. You will find your limit. And it may be lower than other peoples limit. It doesn't matter what you apply this to, real driving, sim driving, arcade driving, mario kart, doing real martial arts or playing Tekken, playing Quake or becoming a mercenary and actually shooting people... It doesn't matter how accurate or innaccurate the game or sim or job is, its down to maximising the talents YOU have, to get the best from it. So GPL and N4 aren't totally accurate in the trail braking department.. That doesn't change the fact that I'm not going to get much better at it than I am already.. My improvements come in 100ths now rather than 10ths.. and I'm still 2 seconds or more slower than the fastest racers. So be it. I still try to improve anyway, but it doesn't worry me that I am slower, I just get on with it, concentrate on driving in a way that suits my style, and enjoy myself. Lol SpeedFreek. Alexpez wrote in message <94sfav$9st$[email hidden]>... >nothnig to do with the dodgy physics around BRAKING AND THROTTLING UP atthe >same time? > >seems to give you a nice balanced car in gpl and n4, but doesnt work sowell >in real life. > >pez

In article <94r3sr$3j$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>Don't take this as absolute gospel, Eldred -- neither you nor your >system "sucks," but in both cases, there is room for improvement. > >I wouldn't view an upgrade as "mandatory" in your case. Your rank is >pretty darn good (if you ask me), and you're at the point where >improvement comes in hundredths of a second, not tenths, so >improvements will come more slowly for you at this point. Also, for >every hundredth of a second that you can eke out now, that might >translate into tenths or actual seconds if or when you get around to >upgrading, so don't shelve GPL (or anything else), and don't feel that >a hardware upgrade is an absolute necessity. >

Hey, I've been the one who's hesitant to blame the hardware. I didn't want to use it as a 'crutch'.

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>Take my other advice to heart before you view hardware as your Holy >Grail -- get away from GPL for a bit, play around with other stuff, >learn some new tricks there, and after you've had a chance to forget >the bad habits you've learned in GPL, then get back into it and do what >comes naturally . . . drive fast(er)! > >Now, if you have F12K or the F1CS2K demo, download my "All Chassis" >patch and check out the McLaren. THAT should make for a pleasant >diversion from GPL, and you just might learn a thing or two there that >might help in GPL. Or maybe you'll just have a bit of fun for a >change. <G> >

I even finally bought GP3, but I can't get the damn thing to recognize my TSW...so it's on the shelf right now...<sigh> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Hz7c6.188$[email hidden]>, "Roger Squires" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Eldred, >> Your K6-3 system is really hurting you here > > Agree. Please upgrade Eldred, its only a few hundred bux. > ...a few hundred bux that I don't *have* right now... :( And even when I *can* afford to upgrade, I won't be able to afford the top of the line. Meaning, I might be able to get a 1.2G, but top of the line will be a 2G, or something. I'll still be behind the curve... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Leo Landman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94qd52$plf$[email hidden]...

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> > GraDee <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > 94ps1n$i0e$[email hidden]... > > > It's easy to see where you are loosing time but when I try to accelerate > earlier or brake later or whatever it usually understeers out... > > Sounds like you're driving much too carefully. When you feed in throttle

at > speeds where the rear tyres are nowhere near breaking traction, all thecar > will do is drive straight ahead. Maybe you just have to be more agressive > and hang the tail out. This is much easier with rock hard springs/rollbars > and 6 clutches. Less grip but a lot more control. Try a change of tack and > experiment with hard setups, not forgetting the brake bias. >Thanks Leo, I think I'll give this a shot, I feel the care is a bit too conservative right now. Me too :-)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Richard Bellavance) writes:

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>On 25 Jan 2001 22:29:18 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>I'm >>still trying to figure how how people can brake so MUCH later without eating >a >>hedge... It just doesn't seem possible. > > "To better slow down, brake less you must" > - Fangioda > >I'm serious. Don't push too hard on the brake pedal. I very >seldom push it farther than 50% down. > >Just another of those counter-intuitive thingies, I guess... >

Fangioda?<g> So if you only use 50% of the brake travel, so your tires squeal under braking? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (Peter Ives) wrote: > I reckoned that for every 1mph extra speed through every > corner on an average length circuit, that this would equate to about a > half a second quicker lap time Even if your example isn't totally right (I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just not sure :-), it illustrates the point. Being 1 minute slower at the Ring than Huttu seems totally depressing. But break it down into loss of time per corner and you end up feeling much happier... well, less miserable :-) But never has being so slow been so much fun. Andrew McP

I'd like to hear what brake bias' people are running. I right foot brake with non split axis and I can't get much lower than 54 or 53 before I have to apply crazy amounts of opposite lock and compromise my corner exit speed. I did a spy girl comparison of a few laps and I actually beat some of the Aliens out of corners but even though we brake at about the same point I brake harder and they gain time going into the corner. I'm not saying I could lap with Huttu if I left foot braked with throttle(About 45 seconds behind in GPLRank), he has very consistent exit speed. Are there any other right foot brakers out there? "Alexpez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:94q20h$6tp$[email hidden]... > and the really quick guys run brake bias settings thatd kill real peoplein > real cars, they are on the brake and accelerator into bends, and it seemsto > give you loads of front end grip in the game (try it in real life guys) > > granted, some of the real quick guys can run quick with single axispedals,

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> but most cant. > > pez > GraDee <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:94n8od$gs4$[email hidden]... > > I'm going absolutely mental here, > > I get this whole practice, practice practice idea... but I'm really at a > > loss. > > > > Yes, like everyone I'm gradually knocking tenths off here and there. > > On VROC the best drivers are about 1-2 seconds max. off my best times at > > say, Monza... > > I'm no great driver but I'm not terrible (in real life too). I get a > seconds > > advantage for good sim drivers (I get that with all sims!), 2 seconds is

a > > lot of time, but the top guys probably will outdo me by this in a good > > hotlap in most sims... > > But, bugger me If I know how to get anything closer to the 4-5 secondgap > > that top lads have opened up on a regular short circuit. 2 minutes atthe

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> > 'ring... and various other unbelievable times after owning it from > (almost) > > day 1! > > > > Forget about a "How do I go quicker?" post, I ant to know what sort of > > virtual rocked fuel are Monza 1.26's filling there Lotii tanks with? > > > > I don't get it, GPL is the only sim that I have seen guys pulling away

at

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> > such a rate from the regular racers without a perf. editor being > released... > > this is madness! > > > > If I don't get, Perhaps I'll get the dog to bury the CD... any better > ideas? > > :-) > > > > > > >

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:16:42 -0000, "SpeedFreek" <[email hidden]> wrote: >In a nutshell, what I meant was that however much you >practice doing ANYTHING, you can't improve forever. Just want to make the point that should you decide to become an athlete, at say the discus, and you "throw" it like a frisbee, you practice for 3-4 years and get to the stage where you can throw it 40mtrs (I've no idea what real discuss throws are). You then get another guy, been practicing all week, but has read about and practiced the proper technique, who throws it 60mtrs. A very exaggerated example, but there are too many people out there who have been practicing with a less than full knowledge of technique and have gotten despondent and maybe even given up on GPL. I'm not knocking them, just wish they'd realise that you can't pick up this stuff naturally. I know that wasn't quite your point SpeedFreek, but it seemed an opportune moment to make it. This might be heresy but I think you can become very quick at GP3/F12000/TOCA2 etc. without needing a great knowledge of technique, these games do not require the subtleties (looks odd but speell checker passed it) of GPL. Maxx

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable and > practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > > At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with something else. > > David G Fisher

So that WAS you standing on a ladder outside my computer room...stop watch in hand...the other night! How any hours have I done now then?

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5KKb6.118565$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable > and > > practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > > Oh another hit-and-run by DGF. Isn't he nicely trolling these days? I hit the little icon on the top left of my screen and post a reply to someone and that is considered trolling? Is there another way to reply to a newsgroup? I've been posting here for a few years and never knew I was trolling. > I've closed the gap and I really haven't spent such number of hours behind > the wheel. You can accept the fact that like any other craft in theworld, > some people have more skills then others? Sure I can. I just don't judge people's skills by their performance after hundreds of hours of practice. >Heck there is people SO better > then myself. I've seen people GPL guys hop in N4 and set out incredbile > fast times within 4-5 of their first laps. > > But hey, continue to be in your supposed "better simracing" world, allalone > by yourself. It's a very nice place to be. David G Fisher

A computer eye/hand coordination exercise in which every movement has long since been burned into your subconscious. David G Fisher "Marty U'Ren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What might that 'something else' be? > > Marty > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable

and > > practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > > > > At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with somethingelse. > > > > David G Fisher

A fraction of the hours that some sim drivers practice. I could practice a famous violin concerto to the point where I could play it backwards, but that wouldn't make me a great musician. David G Fisher "John Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:05:50 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginableand > >practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > >At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with somethingelse.

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> > Really? How many hours do you think Herr Schumacher has "driven" to be > as good as he is? > > Practice makes perfect - people are no less worthy for doing it. > > John

You can't compare real race driving, with a simulation. Sure, GPL is very realistic, has superb physics modelling, etc.. but you have almost no SA compared to RL, and you're not risking your life every time you hop in a car. IMO. GPL is in some ways harder to master... it's 100% accessible, my grandma could get decent lap times.. but she doesn't know jack about real race car driving, so could never master it, no amount of practice would make her lap below 1:28 on Monza. On the other hand, give GPL to Clark or Gurney and they would never be able to beat the best GLP'ers. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f8%c6.15796$[email hidden]... > A fraction of the hours that some sim drivers practice. > > I could practice a famous violin concerto to the point where I could playit

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> backwards, but that wouldn't make me a great musician. > > David G Fisher > > > "John Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:05:50 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >If you really want to close the gap, you'll have to do the unimaginable > and > > >practice the hundreds and even thousands of hours as some do. > > >At that point though, "driving" has long been replaced with something > else. > > > > Really? How many hours do you think Herr Schumacher has "driven" to be > > as good as he is? > > > > Practice makes perfect - people are no less worthy for doing it. > > > > John >

On 26 Jan 2001 22:46:52 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Fangioda?<g> >So if you only use 50% of the brake travel, so your tires squeal under braking? No, not under braking they don't (when I do it right :-). They do squeal when I start turning, though. What I meant was, if you're trying to turn and brake at the same time, and keep going straight ahead, you either: a) have you brake balance set too far forward b) are braking too hard Note that it could be both :-) Richard. -- Richard Bellavance Enter-Net Inc. Phone: (450) 449-5261 #16 Systems Administrator/ (514) 990-1683 #16 Analyst-Programmer Fax: (450) 449-5242

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:16:31 GMT, [email hidden] (Richard Bellavance) wrote:

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>On 26 Jan 2001 22:46:52 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>Fangioda?<g> >>So if you only use 50% of the brake travel, so your tires squeal under braking? > >No, not under braking they don't (when I do it right :-). They do >squeal when I start turning, though.

Tire squeal under braking is in fact desirable up to the point of lock up. Optimum braking is when the tires are in a frontal slide i.e. car travelling at 100mph, tires travelling at 50mph. >What I meant was, if you're trying to turn and brake at the same >time, and keep going straight ahead, you either: > a) have you brake balance set too far forward > b) are braking too hard > >Note that it could be both :-) It's a little more complicated than that. You only have say "x" amount of grip with the front tires at rest. If you add weight to it (i.e. under braking/turn-in) the level of grip increases. So you have say x+y grip. You can either use that grip for braking or cornering or a combination of both. If you want to use 50% for cornering, you only have 50% for braking. If you try and brake at 55% and corner at 55% you'll slide. To stop the slide you have to brake less and/ or corner less (apply less lock). Of course to brake less you obviously need to be travelling slower, so you need to brake earlier or better. If your serious about improving your braking, take a look here : http://www.geocities.com/dmackf2/camera_angles.html and download the "setup cams". These are special car cams that allow you to look at the car from front wheels/suspension, rear wheels/suspension and from the side (the car filling the whole screen). Use your normal setup, go out on track, WARM THE TIRES, then perform your braking manouvre. As soon as you exit the corner Press F2, select the side on view and watch your tires. If neither locked, try again, braking harder, keep doing this until one tire locks, this SHOULD be the front. Take the Bias back 1%, try again, keep going until the rear locks first. Then move it 1% or preferably 2% forward. Ideally you should try this on a flat approach to a corner, i.e. Silv/Monza but be aware that braking uphill/downhill will alter the balance slightly, as will braking whilst the car is side weighted (i.e. you've just exited a corner before i.e. Zandy) Maxx

In article <[email hidden]>, Maxx <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:16:31 GMT, [email hidden] >It's a little more complicated than that. You only have say >"x" amount of grip with the front tires at rest. If you add >weight to it (i.e. under braking/turn-in) the level of grip >increases. So you have say x+y grip. You can either use >that grip for braking or cornering or a combination of both. >If you want to use 50% for cornering, you only have 50% >for braking. If you try and brake at 55% and corner at 55% >you'll slide. To stop the slide you have to brake less and/ >or corner less (apply less lock). Of course to brake less >you obviously need to be travelling slower, so you need >to brake earlier or better.

Isn't it a little more complicated than that? I guess (correct me if I'm wrong) it's force vectors on the road-surface. Ok, if you have 100 % used for braking, the is nothing left for turning. But if you use only 90%, there is about 40% of maximum turning already available (sqrt(1 - 0.9*0.9)) If you use only 50% braking, you get approx. 85% of max cornering. (sqrt(1 - 0.5*0.5)) And probably it's still more complicated than that :) Of course, it's always coming to the same conclusion: You have to brake less to be able to turn harder - or the other way round.. Calis

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Richard Bellavance) writes:

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>On 26 Jan 2001 22:46:52 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>Fangioda?<g> >>So if you only use 50% of the brake travel, so your tires squeal under >braking? > >No, not under braking they don't (when I do it right :-). They do >squeal when I start turning, though. > >What I meant was, if you're trying to turn and brake at the same >time, and keep going straight ahead, you either: > a) have you brake balance set too far forward > b) are braking too hard > >Note that it could be both :-)

Probably braking too hard. I had someone tell me I was locking the brakes too much. Even when I'm not trying to... :( It seems I do it all the time now. I've tried re-calibrating, to no effect. It seems the brakes either have no effect, or lock up. No in-between. I've also had issues with the gas pedal. There's something a bit weird in my system, I think... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 30 Jan 2001 13:01:30 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Probably braking too hard. I had someone tell me I was locking the brakes too >much. Even when I'm not trying to... :( I used to lock them a lot more before I realized that "Tire Texture" should be one of the very *last* graphic options I should turn off when having FPS problems. Huge difference being able to observe when at least one or both of the fronts have locked. Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) writes:

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>On 30 Jan 2001 13:01:30 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >>Probably braking too hard. I had someone tell me I was locking the brakes >too >>much. Even when I'm not trying to... :( > >I used to lock them a lot more before I realized that "Tire Texture" >should be one of the very *last* graphic options I should turn off >when having FPS problems. Huge difference being able to observe when >at least one or both of the fronts have locked.

That's one of the options I've left off - for that very reason. I can SEE the tires locking, I just can't keep from DOING it... If they don't lock, the brakes don't seem to work. There's no in-between...:( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote ... > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) writes: > > >On 30 Jan 2001 13:01:30 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>Probably braking too hard. I had someone tell me I was locking thebrakes

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> >too > >>much. Even when I'm not trying to... :( > > > >I used to lock them a lot more before I realized that "Tire Texture" > >should be one of the very *last* graphic options I should turn off > >when having FPS problems. Huge difference being able to observe when > >at least one or both of the fronts have locked. > > That's one of the options I've left off - for that very reason. I can SEE

the > tires locking, I just can't keep from DOING it... If they don't lock, the > brakes don't seem to work. There's no in-between...:( > > EldredI presume you have the squash ball under your brake pedal? IMHO It's essential for any sort of control over the brake pedal. I'm thinking that I need more resistance under my throttle foot too - I reckon PC wheels are designed for games like NFS where it's pedal-to-the-metal all the way. -- Tony Whitley GPLRank +10.65

In article <1g9e6.274$[email hidden]>, "Tony Whitley" <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ nStPlAwMorld.com> writes:

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>> That's one of the options I've left off - for that very reason. I can SEE >the >> tires locking, I just can't keep from DOING it... If they don't lock, the >> brakes don't seem to work. There's no in-between...:( >> >> Eldred >I presume you have the squash ball under your brake pedal? IMHO It's >essential for any sort of control over the brake pedal. I'm thinking that I >need more resistance under my throttle foot too - I reckon PC wheels are >designed for games like NFS where it's pedal-to-the-metal all the way.

I *meant* to say that's one option I've left ON...<sigh> No, I don't have the squash ball under the pedal. The TSW2 doesn't really have a place for that... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> >> That's one of the options I've left off - for that very reason. I canSEE > >the > >> tires locking, I just can't keep from DOING it... If they don't lock,the > >> brakes don't seem to work. There's no in-between...:( > >> > >> Eldred > >I presume you have the squash ball under your brake pedal? IMHO It's > >essential for any sort of control over the brake pedal. I'm thinking thatI > >need more resistance under my throttle foot too - I reckon PC wheels are > >designed for games like NFS where it's pedal-to-the-metal all the way. > > I *meant* to say that's one option I've left ON...<sigh> > No, I don't have the squash ball under the pedal. The TSW2 doesn't reallyhave > a place for that... Actually, Eldred, I'm using the exact same wheel and pedals, and I find it *much* easier to drive with than the LWFF (with or without squash ball). I don't think you can use the pedals as an excuse, I'm afraid (although you probably knew that anyway!) ;-)

I've always had the same problems with GPL. (and only GPL) I'm currently working on a two stage damper system using RC car shocks and swing arms. It will bolt right up to the TSW frame. When I'm done, I'll post pictures here. -- Mark Jeangerard "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <1g9e6.274$[email hidden]>, "Tony Whitley" > <t o n y . w h i t l e y @ nStPlAwMorld.com> writes: > > >> That's one of the options I've left off - for that very reason. I can SEE > >the > >> tires locking, I just can't keep from DOING it... If they don't lock, the > >> brakes don't seem to work. There's no in-between...:( > >> > >> Eldred > >I presume you have the squash ball under your brake pedal? IMHO It's > >essential for any sort of control over the brake pedal. I'm thinking that I > >need more resistance under my throttle foot too - I reckon PC wheels are > >designed for games like NFS where it's pedal-to-the-metal all the way. > > I *meant* to say that's one option I've left ON...<sigh> > No, I don't have the squash ball under the pedal. The TSW2 doesn't really have > a place for that... > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <Dcie6.33268$[email hidden]>, "Neil Raine" <[email hidden]> writes: > >Actually, Eldred, I'm using the exact same wheel and pedals, and I find it >*much* easier to drive with than the LWFF (with or without squash ball). > >I don't think you can use the pedals as an excuse, I'm afraid (although you >probably knew that anyway!) ;-) Oh yeah??? Well, what size is your monitor, and what speed is your system...? <g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.