GPL Driving guide

Is there a good GPL driving guide on the net? Ones I've looked at weren't very helpful. Thanks J

Jiyang Chen wrote: > Is there a good GPL driving guide on the net? Ones I've looked at weren't > very helpful. > > Thanks > J OK, here's how it works. ;) "Drive around Glen, crash a lot, swear at PC, drive around more, crash slightly less, eventually get around several laps without crashing at all, think "hey, I can do this!", go faster, crash again, swear loudly at PC, get more used to handling, feel comfortable, change car, crash even more than at the start, swear very loudly, get used to other car, go round Glen in decent time, have race, get punted off by Surtees, swear at Hondas in general, have another race, push Surtees off yourself (revenge is sweet!), finish race though low down field, feel happy, have a beer, suddenly realise you can't drive straight anymore, go to bed, get up, play more GPL, change to Monza, crash again, swear yet more, get hang of Monza, think "I can really do this now!", change to N�rburgring, crash every 50 yards, swear at Germans, drive round very slowly, still crash, swear more, download some fast setups, crash all the time, get used to setups, do a 3:30 at Spa, feel happy with self, look at Schubi's site, see Spa record is 3:12, watch Greger Huttu's replays, feel really depressed, have beer to drown sorrows, crash all the time, go to bed, get up, wait for hangover to go, drive around and around various tracks, finally get reasonable, go to VROC, crash a lot, swear at all other drivers, give up, buy TOCA2 instead as you're meant to crash in that." Seriously, you need to practice a LOT. Try to find Alison Hine's beginner setups - I think they are still out on the internet. The forums at rscnet.org should be a good place to look. I think they were even running a GPL 'school' at one point. Are you using a wheel or joystick? Don't try to use the keyboard - it's hopeless.... There is a lot to learn. If you have any specific questions, please ask! -Greg

Try this for the original 11 tracks- http://www.jrpearson.homestead.com/GPLDrivingInstruction.html

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/medeson/GPLEGS.zip On Tue, 31 May 2005 05:09:38 GMT, "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Is there a good GPL driving guide on the net? Ones I've looked at weren't >very helpful. > >Thanks >J >

On Mon, 30 May 2005 22:55:31 -0700, Greg Campbell <[email hidden]> wrote: >OK, here's how it works. ;) <Snip> Hehe, nice piece of writing. brought back some memories, especially the Surtees part, although he was more a pain at Monza (Parabolica). The things I can add, drive a couple of laps only on the left side of the track, then drive a couple of laps on the right side of the track. Also practice overtaking without other cars, to become familiar with brakingzones not on the racing line. Cheers! Remco

That was hilarious - and true! -- - RubberGoat - gummiged "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" - Dr. Strangelove "Don't take this the wrong way, but genetically you're a Cul-De-Sac" - Bernard Black to Manny, (Black Books) "Greg Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2%Sme.1430$rp.695@fed1read02... > Jiyang Chen wrote: > >> Is there a good GPL driving guide on the net? Ones I've looked at >> weren't >> very helpful. >> >> Thanks >> J > > OK, here's how it works. ;) > > "Drive around Glen, crash a lot, swear at PC, drive around more, crash > slightly less, eventually get around several laps without crashing at all, > think "hey, I can do this!", go faster, crash again, swear loudly at PC, > get more used to handling, feel comfortable, change car, crash even more > than at the start, swear very loudly, get used to other car, go round Glen > in decent time, have race, get punted off by Surtees, swear at Hondas in > general, have another race, push Surtees off yourself (revenge is sweet!), > finish race though low down field, feel happy, have a beer, suddenly > realise you can't drive straight anymore, go to bed, get up, play more > GPL, change to Monza, crash again, swear yet more, get hang of Monza, > think "I can really do this now!", change to N�rburgring, crash every 50 > yards, swear at Germans, drive round very slowly, still crash, swear more, > download some fast setups, crash all the time, get used to setups, do a > 3:30 at Spa, feel happy with self, look at Schubi's site, see Spa record > is 3:12, watch Greger Huttu's replays, feel really depressed, have beer to > drown sorrows, crash all the time, go to bed, get up, wait for hangover to > go, drive around and around various tracks, finally get reasonable, go to > VROC, crash a lot, swear at all other drivers, give up, buy TOCA2 instead > as you're meant to crash in that." > > > > Seriously, you need to practice a LOT. > Try to find Alison Hine's beginner setups - I think they are still out on > the internet. The forums at rscnet.org should be a good place to look. I > think they were even running a GPL 'school' at one point. > > Are you using a wheel or joystick? Don't try to use the keyboard - it's > hopeless.... > > There is a lot to learn. If you have any specific questions, please ask! > > -Greg > >

On Mon, 30 May 2005 22:55:31 -0700, Greg Campbell wrote:

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> Jiyang Chen wrote: > >> Is there a good GPL driving guide on the net? Ones I've looked at weren't >> very helpful. >> >> Thanks >> J > OK, here's how it works. ;)

Thanks for the laugh, submitted to alt.humor.best-of-usenet ;-) uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Uwe Sch�rkamp wrote:

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> On Mon, 30 May 2005 22:55:31 -0700, Greg Campbell wrote: > >>Jiyang Chen wrote: >> >> >>>Is there a good GPL driving guide on the net? Ones I've looked at weren't >>>very helpful. >>> >>>Thanks >>>J >> >>OK, here's how it works. ;) > > > Thanks for the laugh, submitted to alt.humor.best-of-usenet ;-) > > uwe

Cool. Just don't credit me. Google found David Buttery quoting it on RAS many years ago. I don't know if he made it up then and there, or was just passing it along. JC, here's a good site: http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/index.html -Greg

Thanks for the help. Seems like I'm spinning out at every turn... I do have a steering wheel, though it's an old one. Are there any sites with historic footages of the same cars on the tracks? Thanks again

"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NB6ne.23300$[email hidden]...

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> Thanks for the help. Seems like I'm spinning out at every turn... I do > have a steering wheel, though it's an old one. Are there any sites with > historic footages of the same cars on the tracks? > > Thanks again > >

in-car footage that is. J

Jijang... Seriously, you might need to investigate about the wheel just a bit. I had a ThrustMaster wheel, actually I had about 9 of them via sending them in under warranty and all the newer versions I tried back when... The output from the wheel needs to be smooth. now when you calibrate, if you just go in there willy nilly or without reguard to what is happening, you may not notice, but the 'computer' and game will... Not sure how much you might 'get' about what I am saying, so le me see if I can simplify this. When the wheel is at rest (lets agree it is centered) the value being expressed to the PC, is variable depending on specs, so let say it is showing the computer that it's reading a 100, as you turn the wheel to the left, it goes up in good wheels 101, 102, 103... on lesser good it can be 110, 120, 130 etc, up to 200 maybe. to the right it goes down accordingly and equally for each 'degree of movement'. But my thrust-crapper wheel inviariably sent this to the pc, as I slowly turned the wheel to the left for example... 101, 102, 50, 90 105, 110, 120, 190. thus the game thought I was turning left ever so slightly then wildly hard right, then wildly back to left, even though I was NOT. Being the good sim, wanting to give my inputs to the simulated car, that kindof readings... was causing great spins in anything above arcade games like MTM and crap like NFS... Anyway, sometimes this is just dirty or bad POTS (potentiometers). If you dont know what I mean by POT, think volume, balance, or tuning knob on older radios... as you turn the volume knob the resistance that is read slowly and linearily increases or decreases, as such the circuits in the radio respond in kind with volume, balance or tuning is reflected... if the volume nob for example is dirty or 'bad' you get that 'static' crackly sound as you turn the knob, that crap can happen in wheels, your game (& PC) try to determine what you did, usually wrecking you or sometimes ignoring you depending on the game or SW & drivers... Finally, I got a new & different wheel back then, all of a sudden GPL, nascar, and everything was drivable... many here like the Logitech's offerings, the Driving Force Pro wheels, the Momo wheels are ok too i have read, the driving force's I hear are cool, as they work with PC as well as PS2 I hear... I would recomend one like mine, but they arent made anymore MS-sidewinder FF v2 [red grip version]. plus you add the fact XP doesnt really do anything but do 'legacy' (meaning limited) support of the good old gameports.. so that, if XP's your OS, could be another hurdle to get over? Jiyang Chen enlightened us with: > Thanks for the help. Seems like I'm spinning out at every turn... I > do have a steering wheel, though it's an old one. Are there any > sites with historic footages of the same cars on the tracks? > > Thanks again

"Plowboy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vcone.26766$iU.17531@lakeread05... > Jijang... > > Seriously, you might need to investigate about the wheel just a bit. Ihad > a ThrustMaster wheel, actually I had about 9 of them via sending them in > under warranty and all the newer versions I tried back when... > > The output from the wheel needs to be smooth. now when you calibrate, > if you just go in there willy nilly or without reguard to what ishappening, > you may not notice, but the 'computer' and game will... Not sure how much > you might 'get' about what I am saying, so le me see if I can simplifythis. > > When the wheel is at rest (lets agree it is centered) the value being > expressed to the PC, is variable depending on specs, so let say it is > showing the computer that it's reading a 100, as you turn the wheel to the > left, it goes up in good wheels 101, 102, 103... on lesser good it can be > 110, 120, 130 etc, up to 200 maybe. to the right it goes downaccordingly > and equally for each 'degree of movement'. > > But my thrust-crapper wheel inviariably sent this to the pc, as Islowly > turned the wheel to the left for example... 101, 102, 50, 90 105, 110,120, > 190. thus the game thought I was turning left ever so slightly then wildly > hard right, then wildly back to left, even though I was NOT. Being thegood > sim, wanting to give my inputs to the simulated car, that kindofreadings... > was causing great spins in anything above arcade games like MTM and crap > like NFS... > > Anyway, sometimes this is just dirty or bad POTS (potentiometers). If you > dont know what I mean by POT, think volume, balance, or tuning knob onolder > radios... as you turn the volume knob the resistance that is read slowly > and linearily increases or decreases, as such the circuits in the radio > respond in kind with volume, balance or tuning is reflected... if the > volume nob for example is dirty or 'bad' you get that 'static' cracklysound

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> as you turn the knob, that crap can happen in wheels, your game (& PC) try > to determine what you did, usually wrecking you or sometimes ignoring you > depending on the game or SW & drivers... > > Finally, I got a new & different wheel back then, all of a sudden GPL, > nascar, and everything was drivable... many here like the Logitech's > offerings, the Driving Force Pro wheels, the Momo wheels are ok too i have > read, the driving force's I hear are cool, as they work with PC as well as > PS2 I hear... I would recomend one like mine, but they arent made anymore > MS-sidewinder FF v2 [red grip version]. plus you add the fact XP doesnt > really do anything but do 'legacy' (meaning limited) support of the good

old > gameports.. so that, if XP's your OS, could be another hurdle to getover? >I think I know what you're talking about. I have a Thrustmaster Nascar Charger (non usb) that twitches a lot even if I don't apply steering input. I'll look into getting something else. Thanks for the post.

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:53:05 GMT, "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I think I know what you're talking about. I have a Thrustmaster Nascar >Charger (non usb) that twitches a lot even if I don't apply steering input. >I'll look into getting something else. Thanks for the post. > CompUSA has the Logitech Momo Racing Force Feedback wheel for $80US (minus a $30 rebate) through June 4. A good wheel for a good price... http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=296053&pfp=cat3 ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

I'm watching the replays the cars seem to be drifting during turns. Are there any instructions on this 4 wheel drift?

"Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%XMne.1681$[email hidden]... > I'm watching the replays the cars seem to be drifting during turns. Are > there any instructions on this 4 wheel drift? "Practice, practice, practice" ;-) I used to be a gpl instructor (briefly), and trying to explain what to do to someone else helps you understand it more fully yourself, but I could never get my head round explaining how to drift the car. I can do it, I just can't explain how. It's just how the car behaves when approaching the limit of grip, and it's fairly pronounced in gpl thanks to the way it models grip. Best advice I can suggest is that you throw the car into the corner & learn to catch it before you run out of road. The effect is the same but obviously drifting is much more subtle. Ideally once you've caught the slide you should have the car pointing at the exit & just feed in the gas, but no one gets it right every time. You just have to learn to let the car do the work & keep the nose pointing in the direction you want the car to go. Malc.

You might also consider getting the '65 Mod, as they're easier to drive and make a good trainer for GPL. http://55and65.speedgeezers.com/gpl65/ Jim Malc wrote:

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> "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%XMne.1681$[email hidden]... > >>I'm watching the replays the cars seem to be drifting during turns. Are >>there any instructions on this 4 wheel drift? > > > "Practice, practice, practice" ;-) > > I used to be a gpl instructor (briefly), and trying to explain what to do to > someone else helps you understand it more fully yourself, but I could never > get my head round explaining how to drift the car. I can do it, I just can't > explain how. It's just how the car behaves when approaching the limit of > grip, and it's fairly pronounced in gpl thanks to the way it models grip. > > Best advice I can suggest is that you throw the car into the corner & learn > to catch it before you run out of road. The effect is the same but obviously > drifting is much more subtle. Ideally once you've caught the slide you > should have the car pointing at the exit & just feed in the gas, but no one > gets it right every time. You just have to learn to let the car do the work > & keep the nose pointing in the direction you want the car to go. > > Malc. > >

I am sticking my neck out replying to you. I drive around at the back of the online races in my group. If any of the guys I drive with recognize me they will probably think I should keep my mouth shut. However since I can slide the car, but am no expert, perhaps I can help you get started. To start off with the original Alison Hine setups are based on the default setups and have differentials that lock up on braking - rather like the fixed axle on a go-kart. This hinders car rotation which helps newbies in that the rear of the car does not tend to come around causing oversteer and spins. This also gives turn in understeer which basically means that when you turn into the corner instead of going around the car tends to go straight on. To utilize this to your advantage drive into the corner as fast as you dare which for most newbies will be pretty slow if you are trying to avoid crashing at every corner. As you approach the corner turn in early so that the apex of the corner appears in front of the car and it looks like you are going to hit it (cutting the corner). If you have enough speed the car will understeer, that is continue/slide on past the apex and you will be able to drive past the apex on the ideal line. When you check your replay you will see that you had a 4 wheel drift into the corner. Once you can see that you are able to drift the car it will give you more confidence and you will be able to slide also when getting on the power, combining wheelspin at the back with understeer at the front. Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get more car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the car steer more easily. Hope this helps, if not, someone will probably jump in and tear this to pieces, and that might help more. Happy driving. Graham Jiyang Chen wrote: > I'm watching the replays the cars seem to be drifting during turns. Are > there any instructions on this 4 wheel drift? > >

Graham <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MSTne.6$[email hidden]: > Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get more > car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the car steer > more easily. > How does someone 'open' the differential? Do you use larger numbers? a bigger gap between the two? Or do you try to reduce the difference? Many folks see terms like this, and just have no idea what you are talking about and how to implement it. Thanks for your advice dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> Graham <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MSTne.6$[email hidden]: > > >>Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get more >>car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the car steer >>more easily. >> > > > How does someone 'open' the differential? Do you use larger numbers? > a bigger gap between the two? Or do you try to reduce the difference? > > Many folks see terms like this, and just have no idea what you are talking > about and how to implement it. > > Thanks for your advice > > dave henrie

As I understand it the differential ramp angle figures xx/xx refer to the "tendency to lock the differential" with power on/without power on, which I look at as being during whether or not you use the accelerator so even more simplified the first figure is out of a corner and the second going into a corner. There are much better and more technical explanations on the net. The further I get into it the more likely I will be talking rubbish but here goes. Put into the context of my post: Most setups that are based on the differentials in the default setups have figures like 85/30/4 85/45/4 and so on. The smaller the angle the quicker the differential locks so 85 locks slower than 30. So in a 85/30/x setup the differential locks quicker on power off than on power on and so it locks on braking helping to keep you straight and turn entry causing understeer and opens more when you apply throttle allowing you to be more careless with the throttle, but less than maximum acceleration. The final figure is clutches and I will not discuss them here except to say that the tendency is to see more clutches as increasing the tendency to lock, but with less effect than decreasing the angle. Clutches affect both sides. These 85/30/x or 85/45/x (x typically between 3 and 6) setups are useful for beginners to learn early turn in, understeering onto the apex, without spinning however this type of setup has come under critism as unhistorical and encouraging "bad habits" "Intermediate" style setups are of the type 60/60/x (x typically 1 or 2) These setups turn more easily, lock up much less on power off somewhat more on power off. When you go over from 85/30/4 to 60/60/1 you tend to oversteer into the corners until you get used to it. From what I have seen expert setups venture into the 45/85/x style reversing the tendencies from the default setups. In other words the differential will have very little tendency to lock on braking and turn in be open in the corner and lock when you get on the accelerator. I have gone way beyond my incompetency level but this is my attempt at understanding what I have read on the subject and relating it to my own humble attempts at driving GPL cars. More expert opinions can be found at: Niels Heusinkveld setup guide (with useful table combining rampangles and clutches). http://www.geocities.com/n_heusink/setupguide/guide.htm Nunnini's GPL Foolishness site http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Differential.html Paul Jacksons setup site http://www.gpladdicts.speedgeezers.com/pjsetupguide/pjsetupguide.html regards Graham

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> Graham <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MSTne.6$[email hidden]: > > >>Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get more >>car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the car steer >>more easily. >> > > > How does someone 'open' the differential? Do you use larger numbers? > a bigger gap between the two? Or do you try to reduce the difference? > > Many folks see terms like this, and just have no idea what you are talking > about and how to implement it. > > Thanks for your advice > > dave henrie

Sorry I am reposting to correct a couple of mistakes and include some punctuation. As I understand it the differential ramp angle figures xx/xx refer to the "tendency to lock the differential" with power on/without power on, which I look at as being during whether or not you use the accelerator. So even more simplified the first figure is out of a corner and the second going into a corner. There are much better and more technical explanations on the net. The further I get into it the more likely I will be talking rubbish but here goes. Put into the context of my post: Most setups that are based on the differentials in the default setups have figures like 85/30/4 85/45/4 and so on. The smaller the angle the quicker the differential locks so 85 locks slower than 30. So in a 85/30/x setup the differential locks quicker on power off than on power on, and so it locks on braking helping to keep you straight, staying locked for turn entry causing understeer. It opens more when you apply throttle allowing you to be more careless with the throttle, but giving less than maximum acceleration. The final figure is clutches and I will not discuss them here, except to say that the tendency is to see more clutches as increasing the tendency to lock, but with less effect than decreasing the angle. Clutches affect both sides. These 85/30/x or 85/45/x (x typically between 3 and 6) setups are useful for beginners to learn early turn in, understeering onto the apex, without spinning. However this type of setup has come under critism as unhistorical and encouraging "bad habits" "Intermediate" style setups are of the type 60/60/x (x typically 1 or 2) These setups turn more easily, lock up much less on power off somewhat more on power on. When you go over from 85/30/4 to 60/60/1 you tend to oversteer into the corners until you get used to it, and can tend to spin more when getting on the gas. From what I have seen expert setups venture into the 45/60/x 45/85/x style, reversing the tendencies from the default setups. In other words the differential will have very little tendency to lock on braking and turn in. It will be open in the corner, and lock when you get on the accelerator. I have gone way beyond my incompetency level, but this is my attempt at understanding what I have read on the subject and relating it to my own humble attempts at driving GPL cars. More expert opinions can be found at: Niels Heusinkveld setup guide (with useful table combining rampangles and clutches). http://www.geocities.com/n_heusink/setupguide/guide.htm Nunnini's GPL Foolishness site http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Differential.html Paul Jacksons setup site http://www.gpladdicts.speedgeezers.com/pjsetupguide/pjsetupguide.html regards Graham

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Graham <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MSTne.6$[email hidden]: > > > Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get more > > car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the car steer > > more easily. > > > > How does someone 'open' the differential? Do you use larger numbers? > a bigger gap between the two? Or do you try to reduce the difference? > > Many folks see terms like this, and just have no idea what you are talking > about and how to implement it. > > Thanks for your advice >

Not who you asked, but since I'm in here... ;-) Opening the diffs is achieved through lower numbers, both for the accel/coast side ramp angles and the clutch plates. A 30/30-1 setup is as open as you can get going through the stock menu, while 85/85-6 is the opposite extreme. Higher numbers for the ramp angles will stabilize the car under the condition the ramp angle applies to, either acceleration or coasting/braking, and the clutch plates control the max locking force under either condition. Early on, everyone ran ramp angles around 85/30 or 85/45 since they were easier to handle under power, but now the reverse (or almost) is the norm. Which is as it should be; in interviews way back when, even DK noted that everyone was running the diffs backwards. The high power-side ramp angles help to keep the car pointed straight when you get on the gas, but tend to induce high-speed understeer. The only way around that is to overdrive it and drift the car around at high slip angles. Which causes a lot of frictional drag, raising laptimes. The move to open accel-side ramp angles is imho one of the main reasons laptimes continued to drop in GPL. The aliens had pretty much gotten all they could out of the old-school setups and needed a way to kill the high-speed push. Of course the cars are considerably more of a handful on the gas with say a 45-degree accel-side ramp angle, so many who try them go back since they have a rough time staying on track. The cars are extremely throttle-steerable with the low angles and some, particularly the Lotus, tend to be a bit much. The cars with softer power and longer wheelbases are easier to live with at low ramp angles. So people just need to experiment and find a compromise that works for them. Coast-side angles will generally be higher if you're running the power side open, since they help stabilize the car under braking. They started out lower so you could bring the nose in by backing off the throttle mid-corner. Clutch plates can be looked at as a finer adjustment after you get the ramp angles you like, lower numbers will allow more slippage and let the car turn easier, while higher ones will make the car want to stay straight. I used to think this was all very complex until I got a look at the diff menu for RBR. You need a freakin' Cray to work that one out. Gpl has GPLRE, but RBR has a 3rd party setup utility just for the diffs! Cheers, SB

Steve Blankenship wrote:

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> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Graham <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MSTne.6$[email hidden]: >> >> >>>Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get more >>>car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the car steer >>>more easily. >>> >> >> How does someone 'open' the differential? Do you use larger numbers? >>a bigger gap between the two? Or do you try to reduce the difference? >> >>Many folks see terms like this, and just have no idea what you are talking >>about and how to implement it. >> >>Thanks for your advice >> > > > Not who you asked, but since I'm in here... ;-) > > Opening the diffs is achieved through lower numbers, both for the > accel/coast side ramp angles and the clutch plates. A 30/30-1 setup is as > open as you can get going through the stock menu, while 85/85-6 is the > opposite extreme. Higher numbers for the ramp angles will stabilize the car > under the condition the ramp angle applies to, either acceleration or > coasting/braking, and the clutch plates control the max locking force under > either condition. > > Early on, everyone ran ramp angles around 85/30 or 85/45 since they were > easier to handle under power, but now the reverse (or almost) is the norm. > Which is as it should be; in interviews way back when, even DK noted that > everyone was running the diffs backwards. The high power-side ramp angles > help to keep the car pointed straight when you get on the gas, but tend to > induce high-speed understeer. The only way around that is to overdrive it > and drift the car around at high slip angles. Which causes a lot of > frictional drag, raising laptimes. The move to open accel-side ramp angles > is imho one of the main reasons laptimes continued to drop in GPL. The > aliens had pretty much gotten all they could out of the old-school setups > and needed a way to kill the high-speed push. > > Of course the cars are considerably more of a handful on the gas with say a > 45-degree accel-side ramp angle, so many who try them go back since they > have a rough time staying on track. The cars are extremely > throttle-steerable with the low angles and some, particularly the Lotus, > tend to be a bit much. The cars with softer power and longer wheelbases are > easier to live with at low ramp angles. So people just need to experiment > and find a compromise that works for them. Coast-side angles will generally > be higher if you're running the power side open, since they help stabilize > the car under braking. They started out lower so you could bring the nose > in by backing off the throttle mid-corner. Clutch plates can be looked at > as a finer adjustment after you get the ramp angles you like, lower numbers > will allow more slippage and let the car turn easier, while higher ones will > make the car want to stay straight. > > I used to think this was all very complex until I got a look at the diff > menu for RBR. You need a freakin' Cray to work that one out. Gpl has > GPLRE, but RBR has a 3rd party setup utility just for the diffs! > > Cheers, > > SB >

Like I said someone will come and tear it apart. The most obious difference here is that Steve says: > Opening the diffs is achieved through lower numbers however this conflicts with the information on http://www.geocities.com/n_heusink/setupguide/guide.htm which states: "In the car setup menu you can select a differential from 30/30 to 85/85 with small steps between these extremes. The first number is the ON gas value, and the second number is the OFF gas value. A smaller number means a bigger force (more lock) and a bigger number means a smaller force (less lock)" Apart from that Steve certainly sounds like he knows more (than me) about the driving part of it. Graham

"Graham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%XZne.38$[email hidden]...

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> Like I said someone will come and tear it apart. The most obious > difference here is that Steve says: > > > Opening the diffs is achieved through lower numbers > > however this conflicts with the information on > > http://www.geocities.com/n_heusink/setupguide/guide.htm > > which states: > > "In the car setup menu you can select a differential from 30/30 to 85/85 > with small steps between these extremes. The first number is the ON gas > value, and the second number is the OFF gas value. A smaller number > means a bigger force (more lock) and a bigger number means a smaller > force (less lock)" > > Apart from that Steve certainly sounds like he knows more (than me) > about the driving part of it. > > Graham >

And you would be correct - stop being nice, man - just tell me I'm full of it! ;-) That's what I get for assuming my remembrance of GPL diff lore was still intact. Been too long! Suppose I was thinking more of effect than cause, which was my undoing. Fished around in my favorites and dug this up - a great pictorial guide explaining how the ramps work in Salisbury diffs. http://icpcitation.com/variloc_theory.htm Back to my cave now; or better yet back to the Lotus this evening to relearn how to drive it! Warning - VROC won't be safe this weekend...

I don't start messing with diff settings until after I get the right balance in the chassis itself, typically if it will turn in like I want it to, and that it never fades out understeering but has a slight oversteer so that you can save it when loosing traction. I hate it when my diff prevents me from driving the car the way I want. To do this, I always start out with a completely open diff (85/85/1), and work my way up (or down in this case). If I want a more stable (understeering) exit, I lower the first figure. If I want more stability during braking, I lower the next. If you go too far, the car will turn in very sluggishly. Monaco and N�rburgring will always demand x/85 since you're turning in all the time. The most common diff setting for me is around the 45/60 mark. At Silverstone I want lower figures, and will go 30/45 depending on chassis. Your preffered diff settings will vary with setup style and driving style, so it is very difficult to suggest any setting because there are so many other variables in the equation. Empiri is the only way, as with many other aspects of life. ---A--- On 03.06.2005 15:27, Graham wrote:

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> Dave Henrie wrote: > >> Graham <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MSTne.6$[email hidden]: >> >> >>> Later you will probably want to open the differential more to get >>> more car rotation this takes more practice to balance, but lets the >>> car steer more easily. >>> >> >> >> How does someone 'open' the differential? Do you use larger numbers? >> a bigger gap between the two? Or do you try to reduce the difference? >> >> Many folks see terms like this, and just have no idea what you are >> talking about and how to implement it. >> >> Thanks for your advice >> >> dave henrie > > > As I understand it the differential ramp angle figures xx/xx refer to > the "tendency to lock the differential" with power on/without power on, > which I look at as being during whether or not you use the accelerator > so even more simplified the first figure is out of a corner and the > second going into a corner. There are much better and more technical > explanations on the net. The further I get into it the more likely I > will be talking rubbish but here goes. > > Put into the context of my post: > > Most setups that are based on the differentials in the default setups > have figures like 85/30/4 85/45/4 and so on. > > The smaller the angle the quicker the differential locks so 85 locks > slower than 30. So in a 85/30/x setup the differential locks quicker on > power off than on power on and so it locks on braking helping to keep > you straight and turn entry causing understeer and opens more when you > apply throttle allowing you to be more careless with the throttle, but > less than maximum acceleration. The final figure is clutches and I will > not discuss them here except to say that the tendency is to see more > clutches as increasing the tendency to lock, but with less effect than > decreasing the angle. Clutches affect both sides. > > These 85/30/x or 85/45/x (x typically between 3 and 6) setups are useful > for beginners to learn early turn in, understeering onto the apex, > without spinning however this type of setup has come under critism as > unhistorical and encouraging "bad habits" > > "Intermediate" style setups are of the type 60/60/x (x typically 1 or 2) > These setups turn more easily, lock up much less on power off somewhat > more on power off. When you go over from 85/30/4 to 60/60/1 you tend to > oversteer into the corners until you get used to it. > > From what I have seen expert setups venture into the 45/85/x style > reversing the tendencies from the default setups. In other words the > differential will have very little tendency to lock on braking and turn > in be open in the corner and lock when you get on the accelerator. > > I have gone way beyond my incompetency level but this is my attempt at > understanding what I have read on the subject and relating it to my own > humble attempts at driving GPL cars. > > More expert opinions can be found at: > > Niels Heusinkveld setup guide (with useful table combining rampangles > and clutches). > > http://www.geocities.com/n_heusink/setupguide/guide.htm > > Nunnini's GPL Foolishness site > > http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Differential.html > > Paul Jacksons setup site > > http://www.gpladdicts.speedgeezers.com/pjsetupguide/pjsetupguide.html > > regards > Graham >

"Asgeir Nesoen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d83udr$7a6$[email hidden]... > I don't start messing with diff settings until after I get the right > balance in the chassis itself Changing the diff has a big effect on the way the car behaves, the chassis setting can all be tuned more accurately. imo set the big stuff first so the car is set up in the right ballpark, then fine tune it to taste with the other stuff. If you start with an open diff you'll get the chassis working fine /with an open diff/, then when you change the diff you'll end up having to tweak the chassis anyway ;-) Use the diff to make it fast (for you), use the chassis to make it driveable. Malc.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:31:39 -0400, Jeff Vincent <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:53:05 GMT, "Jiyang Chen" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I think I know what you're talking about. I have a Thrustmaster Nascar >>Charger (non usb) that twitches a lot even if I don't apply steering input. >>I'll look into getting something else. Thanks for the post. >> > > CompUSA has the Logitech Momo Racing Force Feedback wheel for $80US >(minus a $30 rebate) through June 4. A good wheel for a good price... > >http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=296053&pfp=cat3

I agree. The Momo is a great deal and a good starter wheel. B