Racing terminology

I was watching some races on Speedvisions and was wondering if there was a site that could teach me some of the terminology. What is a "shacane"? I assume a corner or turn since it's gets mentioned when cars are going around them.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was watching some races on Speedvisions and was wondering if there > was a site that could teach me some of the terminology. What is a > "shacane"? I assume a corner or turn since it's gets mentioned when > cars are going around them. I think you're talking about a "chicane", which is basically a tight s-turn. From Merrian Webster online dictionary (www.m-w.com) chicane 2b : a series of tight turns in opposite directions in an otherwise straight stretch of a road-racing course --KC

On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:49:21 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: >I was watching some races on Speedvisions and was wondering if there >was a site that could teach me some of the terminology. What is a >"shacane"? I assume a corner or turn since it's gets mentioned when >cars are going around them. A "chicane" is one of those damn fool things like they put in Monza sometime in the '70's where cars used to hit top speed just before the Curva Grande, the Della Roggia and Ascari bends. Ascari is still kind of cool, but the others, IMO, ruin place. Monza should be FAST! They've done similar things to Silverstone, and I guess most other tracks, except Silverstone is possibly not worse off for it (IMO, of course) In answer to your query, anyway, a chicane is basically a short, tight S-bend in, with a straight either side. Slows the cars down and can lead to "closer" racing, but not always "better" racing. Of course, a chicane is not always a bad thing - many of them add extra, exhilirating challenges to a circuit (Eau Rouge at Spa, for example), but badly positioned or designed, they can really screw up a good race track. DG

Whoa, Eau Rouge, a chicane? No wonder I keep spinning there, I should take it slower ;). -Gregor Disgruntled Goat wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Of course, a chicane is not always a bad thing - many of them add > extra, exhilirating challenges to a circuit (Eau Rouge at Spa, for > example), but badly positioned or designed, they can really screw up a > good race track. > > DG

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> >On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:49:21 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: > >>I was watching some races on Speedvisions and was wondering if there >>was a site that could teach me some of the terminology. What is a >>"shacane"? I assume a corner or turn since it's gets mentioned when >>cars are going around them. > >Chicane.. > >A series of back-and-forth curves that are one after the other:

My French-English dictionary translates 'chicane' as 'zigzag'. I think that fits fairly well.

Check our website www.GasolineAlleyOnline.net Under "For The Fan" you will find Racing Terminology Hope this helps Mike

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:25:40 +0100, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >Whoa, Eau Rouge, a chicane? No wonder I keep spinning there, I should >take it slower ;). > Hehe, well, maybe it isn't, technically, a chicane. But when I think chicane, I think a short left-right (or right-left) turn, and Eau Rouge therefore fits MY definition :-) But you are right about one thing (and I may me right about nothing ;-) - there is no better feeling you can have fully clothed than taking the Eau Rouge flat out and just NAILING the bastard. Then of course you have no time to pat yopurself on the back, or it's into the gravel trap for you, sonny... A truer example would be the Retifillo, before the Curva Grande at Monza. It's needless and just creates problems which, I believe, would not occur if the Curva Grande were just left alone. And now they've gone put ANOTHER chicane in there - and we all saw the tragic results of that this past year (I must say i'm basing this on my experiences in GPL vs. watching modern F1 and racing modern F1 sims - so it's not a really informed opinion. Just my thoughts). DG

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:31:47 GMT, [email hidden] (Disgruntled Goat) wrote: >A truer example would be the Retifillo, before the Curva Grande at >Monza. It's needless and just creates problems which, I believe, would >not occur if the Curva Grande were just left alone. Even though I hate chicanes as much as the next person, I *really* don't think entering Curva Grande at 360kph+ would be such an hot idea. The best way is probably to make a safe track without chicanes from the beginning, like A1-ring for instance. Monza on the other has a traditional value and there's an interest for keeping as much as the track as possible. So I don't really know what should be done to keep the general track layout, but keeping the speeds down. Hockenheim is facing similar problems, but it may be getting the complete retailoring a'la �sterreichring/A1-ring. Sad really... I'd take the chicanes any day. > And now they've >gone put ANOTHER chicane in there - and we all saw the tragic results >of that this past year (I must say i'm basing this on my experiences >in GPL vs. watching modern F1 and racing modern F1 sims - so it's not >a really informed opinion. Just my thoughts). The big difference is that GPL-style racing was VERY DANGEROUS. When aero hit it big in the 70's it was even moreso. The changes just had to come. It's not as if monza was the safest track on the planet with _no_ chicanes, rather quite the opposite. I often feel queezy when I see romanticizing writings about the "valiant knights of the road" of yester years that is so common around here. As if they were sacrificing themselves for our sake or some greater cause, like some f**n martyrs or something. :-( All things equal I would want Ronnie, Ayrton, Jimmie, Gilles and all the others zipping around in some reunion today than marvel at the memory of the risks they were taking. Jackie Stewart should be commended for seeing that it wasn't needed to be that way. It makes him even greater(if such a thing is possible!) than he already is, IMHO. /Magnus GPLRank hcp: -40.33

left! right!right! left! or right! left! left! right! -- Ed White [email hidden] Go Rusty, and Dale, and Dale, and Dale! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was watching some races on Speedvisions and was wondering if there > was a site that could teach me some of the terminology. What is a > "shacane"? I assume a corner or turn since it's gets mentioned when > cars are going around them.

left! right!right! left! or right! left! left! right! -- Go Rusty, and Dale, and Dale, and Dale!

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:45:32 +0100, Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip>

Quoted text (7 lines)

>All things equal I would want Ronnie, Ayrton, Jimmie, Gilles and all >the others zipping around in some reunion today than marvel at the >memory of the risks they were taking. Jackie Stewart should be >commended for seeing that it wasn't needed to be that way. It makes >him even greater(if such a thing is possible!) than he already is, >IMHO. >

<snip> True dat! Chris

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:45:32 +0100, Magnus Svensson <snip> <snip> True dat! Chris

Word. /homie For sure the racing pre-Big Money seemed to have a spirit missing today (the same could be said of many sports). It was not the lack of safety that created that spirit. I think that's sometimes forgotten in a haze of fond memories. Ben....who wasn't there to see for himself Magnus Svensson wrote in message ...

Quoted text (47 lines)

>On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:31:47 GMT, [email hidden] >(Disgruntled Goat) wrote: > >>A truer example would be the Retifillo, before the Curva Grande at >>Monza. It's needless and just creates problems which, I believe, would >>not occur if the Curva Grande were just left alone. > >Even though I hate chicanes as much as the next person, I *really* >don't think entering Curva Grande at 360kph+ would be such an hot >idea. > >The best way is probably to make a safe track without chicanes from >the beginning, like A1-ring for instance. Monza on the other has a >traditional value and there's an interest for keeping as much as the >track as possible. So I don't really know what should be done to keep >the general track layout, but keeping the speeds down. Hockenheim is >facing similar problems, but it may be getting the complete >retailoring a'la �sterreichring/A1-ring. Sad really... I'd take the >chicanes any day. > >> And now they've >>gone put ANOTHER chicane in there - and we all saw the tragic results >>of that this past year (I must say i'm basing this on my experiences >>in GPL vs. watching modern F1 and racing modern F1 sims - so it's not >>a really informed opinion. Just my thoughts). > >The big difference is that GPL-style racing was VERY DANGEROUS. When >aero hit it big in the 70's it was even moreso. The changes just had >to come. It's not as if monza was the safest track on the planet with >_no_ chicanes, rather quite the opposite. > >I often feel queezy when I see romanticizing writings about the >"valiant knights of the road" of yester years that is so common around >here. As if they were sacrificing themselves for our sake or some >greater cause, like some f**n martyrs or something. :-( > >All things equal I would want Ronnie, Ayrton, Jimmie, Gilles and all >the others zipping around in some reunion today than marvel at the >memory of the risks they were taking. Jackie Stewart should be >commended for seeing that it wasn't needed to be that way. It makes >him even greater(if such a thing is possible!) than he already is, >IMHO. > > > >/Magnus >GPLRank hcp: -40.33

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:45:32 +0100, Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:31:47 GMT, [email hidden] >(Disgruntled Goat) wrote: > >>A truer example would be the Retifillo, before the Curva Grande at >>Monza. It's needless and just creates problems which, I believe, would >>not occur if the Curva Grande were just left alone. > >Even though I hate chicanes as much as the next person, I *really* >don't think entering Curva Grande at 360kph+ would be such an hot >idea. >

Hmm, when you put it that way.... but the _design_ of those chicanes is awful. Maybe if there was one further back the main straight, not far after the Parabolica? Just a thought...

Quoted text (9 lines)

>The best way is probably to make a safe track without chicanes from >the beginning, like A1-ring for instance. Monza on the other has a >traditional value and there's an interest for keeping as much as the >track as possible. So I don't really know what should be done to keep >the general track layout, but keeping the speeds down. Hockenheim is >facing similar problems, but it may be getting the complete >retailoring a'la �sterreichring/A1-ring. Sad really... I'd take the >chicanes any day. >

So i've heard. I LIKE the Hock' (it cops some abuse, but I don't care, I like it :-) and that is one track where I believe chicanes do actually make for better racing (otherwise, may as well go drive a NASCAR circuit). I'd hate to see it decimated by the proposed overhaul i've seen - far too Bernie, far too... too.... short, or something. I don't know, I just don't want them to change it's essential character.

Quoted text (11 lines)

>> And now they've >>gone put ANOTHER chicane in there - and we all saw the tragic results >>of that this past year (I must say i'm basing this on my experiences >>in GPL vs. watching modern F1 and racing modern F1 sims - so it's not >>a really informed opinion. Just my thoughts). > >The big difference is that GPL-style racing was VERY DANGEROUS. When >aero hit it big in the 70's it was even moreso. The changes just had >to come. It's not as if monza was the safest track on the planet with >_no_ chicanes, rather quite the opposite. >

Point taken. However, these days the emphasis seems to be on maximising the amount of space available to sell advertising space, rather than creating a good race track. So when 'safety changes' are made, I get a little suspiscious, if not downright pissed off, because half the time safety has nothing to do with it. Back to Monza - is the double chicane before the Curva Grande any safer than the single chicane as in '99? Or does it just allow for a few more billboards, and some logos on the grass? I'm sure it hasn't improved safety any, in any case... >I often feel queezy when I see romanticizing writings about the >"valiant knights of the road" of yester years that is so common around >here. As if they were sacrificing themselves for our sake or some >greater cause, like some f**n martyrs or something. :-( > Here I agree with you 100%. We all look back with nostalgia, and those guys must have had iron balls to do what they did - but lets not get carried away. They were race drivers, not Battle of Britain fighter pilots. Mourn them, don't canonise them. They did, though, die doing what they loved. We all have to go some time - wouldn't you rather go like that than having a heart attack on the toilet?

Quoted text (7 lines)

>All things equal I would want Ronnie, Ayrton, Jimmie, Gilles and all >the others zipping around in some reunion today than marvel at the >memory of the risks they were taking. Jackie Stewart should be >commended for seeing that it wasn't needed to be that way. It makes >him even greater(if such a thing is possible!) than he already is, >IMHO. >

Point taken and agreed too, although.... do you think they'd be the legends they now are, had they not died on the track? (Just a discussion point, not an argument starter, so please don't take me the wrong way). DG

>"Disgruntled Goat" <[email hidden]> wrote > Hmm, when you put it that way.... but the _design_ of those chicanes > is awful. Maybe if there was one further back the main straight, not > far after the Parabolica? Just a thought... But what would kill the Parabolica, and change completely the whole grandstand position situation. Chicanes are there also for the business, to pack up the most people possible there with the result of possible passing zone created with it. Anyway at Monza you have two choice. Add chicanes or take them out. You can't do anything else, there is too much political stuff. Heck they had difficulties cutting a tree branch a couple of years back for increased safety. ;-) > Back to Monza - is the > double chicane before the Curva Grande any safer than the single > chicane as in '99? Or does it just allow for a few more billboards, > and some logos on the grass? I'm sure it hasn't improved safety any, > in any case... That's about it. It also created 1 more grandstand. Oh and "safety wise", the cars go off the circuit much further from the guard rails (I can remember a nasty wreck by one of the Benetton there 2 years ago). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Thanks, exactly what I'm looking for. So it's 'chicane' not 'shacane' :) Thanks guys. On 12 Feb 2001 15:28:20 GMT, [email hidden] (Race1530) wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Check our website > >www.GasolineAlleyOnline.net > >Under "For The Fan" you will find Racing Terminology > >Hope this helps > >Mike

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 20:24:29 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>>"Disgruntled Goat" <[email hidden]> wrote >> Hmm, when you put it that way.... but the _design_ of those chicanes >> is awful. Maybe if there was one further back the main straight, not >> far after the Parabolica? Just a thought... > > >But what would kill the Parabolica, and change completely the whole >grandstand position situation. Chicanes are there also for the business, to >pack up the most people possible there with the result of possible passing >zone created with it. >

Yeah, it would. Mid straight perhaps? ;-) I dunno, I just like racing the old Monza far more than the new one, and I imagine races there would have been far better in those days too. But safety is important - I guess it's either chicanes or bye-bye Monza. And I am a traditionalist at heart, so that is out of the question. >Anyway at Monza you have two choice. Add chicanes or take them out. You >can't do anything else, there is too much political stuff. Heck they had >difficulties cutting a tree branch a couple of years back for increased >safety. ;-) > Politics? In F1? In Italy? Surely you jest? ;-)

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >> Back to Monza - is the >> double chicane before the Curva Grande any safer than the single >> chicane as in '99? Or does it just allow for a few more billboards, >> and some logos on the grass? I'm sure it hasn't improved safety any, >> in any case... > > >That's about it. It also created 1 more grandstand. Oh and "safety wise", >the cars go off the circuit much further from the guard rails (I can >remember a nasty wreck by one of the Benetton there 2 years ago). >

Still not far enough away to prevent debris from flying off and hitting a fire marshall... may he Rest In Peace. Maybe the incresed distance actually cotributed to that? Well whatever the case.... the Curva Grande chicane needs to be re-examined until it's got right, I guess. But don't ask me, I just watch the sport and play the sims :-) DG

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Disgruntled Goat) writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>A "chicane" is one of those damn fool things like they put in Monza >sometime in the '70's where cars used to hit top speed just before the >Curva Grande, the Della Roggia and Ascari bends. Ascari is still kind >of cool, but the others, IMO, ruin place. Monza should be FAST! >They've done similar things to Silverstone, and I guess most other >tracks, except Silverstone is possibly not worse off for it (IMO, of >course)

I'm not a big fan of the chicanse, either. They take a length of track that has a serious braking zone at the end, and break it up so that it now has TWO serious braking zones. So they've now doubled the chances for a serious accident in that area, all in the interest of *safety*. Ugh. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.