Act-Labs Force RS: Some questions

I'm fairly new to sim racing, and I'm looking to pick up a wheel. I've just about decided on the Force RS with the shifter, but I've got some questions first for those in the know: 1 - Of all of the reviews I've read, only one was anything but totally positive. At simhq http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/wheels/index.shtml) the reviewer thought that the stitching in the belts that control the wheel cause one to oversteer in a game like GPL that requires small precise movements. He also mentions a similar problem in the brake pedal. This, to me, seems like enough of an issue to cause me to look elsewhere for a wheel, but I've not heard of the problem anywhere else, so I'm hoping some owners here might be able to shed some light on whether this is really much of an issue. 2 - I'm planning on buying the RS shifter, but I may not get it immediately and I'm curious as to how usable the paddle shifters are. I've heard some comments that they're somewhat uncomfortable/difficult to use. Any thoughts? 3 - I've got a small desk area on which to fit this setup (about 20 inches wide due to the shape of my desk, although depth is not an issue.) Act-labs.com says that the width of the wheel is 15 inches, but didn't mention the width of the shifter, so I don't know if I'll be able to fit the 2 side by side. Does anyone know the width of either just the shifter, or the shifter and the wheel together? 4 - Finally, how easy is it to remove and replace the wheel when not in use? I've read that the desktop clamp system is somewhat clumsy. How bad does this make it to constantly remove and re-install the wheel as often as twice a day? Thanks in advance for any advice. I really want to get this wheel, I just want to make sure it's the right wheel for me. If I don't go with the RS, I'll probably have to go with the MS FFB wheel, and I'd rather not put more money into Microsoft's pocket. Thanks again! Tex

In article <NlHh6.806$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> I'm fairly new to sim racing, and I'm looking to pick up a wheel. I've just > about decided on the Force RS with the shifter, but I've got some questions > first for those in the know: > > 1 - Of all of the reviews I've read, only one was anything but totally > positive. At simhq > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/wheels/index.shtml) the > reviewer thought that the stitching in the belts that control the wheel > cause one to oversteer in a game like GPL that requires small precise > movements. He also mentions a similar problem in the brake pedal. This, to > me, seems like enough of an issue to cause me to look elsewhere for a wheel, > but I've not heard of the problem anywhere else, so I'm hoping some owners > here might be able to shed some light on whether this is really much of an > issue.

Yeah, the wheel movement is notchy, even after hours of break-in time (on mine). I have become more aggressive with the wheel when driving GPL, using arm strength to over come this, putting the wheel where *I* want it to be. Not where the little notches want it. Works somewhat. Arms were sore at first. :) THE PEDALS SUCK. Take them off and rewire something, anything else up to the wheel. > > 2 - I'm planning on buying the RS shifter, but I may not get it immediately > and I'm curious as to how usable the paddle shifters are. I've heard some > comments that they're somewhat uncomfortable/difficult to use. Any > thoughts? I haven't used them much, but they seem alright. Just be gentle and caring with your goods and they ought to do.

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> > 3 - I've got a small desk area on which to fit this setup (about 20 inches > wide due to the shape of my desk, although depth is not an issue.) > Act-labs.com says that the width of the wheel is 15 inches, but didn't > mention the width of the shifter, so I don't know if I'll be able to fit the > 2 side by side. Does anyone know the width of either just the shifter, or > the shifter and the wheel together?

21 1/2" wide with the shifter snugged up against the wheel. The shifter uses a metal bar that slides under the wheel and when you clamp the wheel to the desk, it is clamped along with it. An inch or two of the shifter hanging off the side of your desk ought to be no problem. Unless there is a wall there. ;) > > 4 - Finally, how easy is it to remove and replace the wheel when not in use? > I've read that the desktop clamp system is somewhat clumsy. How bad does > this make it to constantly remove and re-install the wheel as often as twice > a day? > It's cumbersome. All the wires come up to the wheel (unlike my old Logi, one wire came up to the desk with it). That's three sets, plus the shifter I need to get up off the floor and guide all the wires around my computer case and onto the desk, shuffling mousepad and keyboard around.

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> Thanks in advance for any advice. I really want to get this wheel, I just > want to make sure it's the right wheel for me. If I don't go with the RS, > I'll probably have to go with the MS FFB wheel, and I'd rather not put more > money into Microsoft's pocket. Thanks again! > > Tex >

I like the RS, I think. I am giving it a lot of time. The shifter is the main thing, it adds so much to the experience. I don't want to go back to paddle shifting in GPL. MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8,1 RUN

I agree with most of what he stated and will add that I don't have any complaints with the pedals. I certainly agree with the shifter is the main thing. It's just awesome. "Michael R Sisson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.14f128c47ee25449896a8@news... > In article <NlHh6.806$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > I'm fairly new to sim racing, and I'm looking to pick up a wheel. I'vejust > > about decided on the Force RS with the shifter, but I've got somequestions

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> > first for those in the know: > > > > 1 - Of all of the reviews I've read, only one was anything but totally > > positive. At simhq > > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/wheels/index.shtml) the > > reviewer thought that the stitching in the belts that control the wheel > > cause one to oversteer in a game like GPL that requires small precise > > movements. He also mentions a similar problem in the brake pedal.

This, to > > me, seems like enough of an issue to cause me to look elsewhere for awheel, > > but I've not heard of the problem anywhere else, so I'm hoping someowners > > here might be able to shed some light on whether this is really much ofan

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> > issue. > > Yeah, the wheel movement is notchy, even after hours of break-in time (on > mine). I have become more aggressive with the wheel when driving GPL, > using arm strength to over come this, putting the wheel where *I* want it > to be. Not where the little notches want it. Works somewhat. Arms were > sore at first. :) > > THE PEDALS SUCK. Take them off and rewire something, anything else up to > the wheel. > > > > > 2 - I'm planning on buying the RS shifter, but I may not get it

immediately > > and I'm curious as to how usable the paddle shifters are. I've heardsome

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> > comments that they're somewhat uncomfortable/difficult to use. Any > > thoughts? > > I haven't used them much, but they seem alright. Just be gentle and > caring with your goods and they ought to do. > > > > > 3 - I've got a small desk area on which to fit this setup (about 20

inches > > wide due to the shape of my desk, although depth is not an issue.) > > Act-labs.com says that the width of the wheel is 15 inches, but didn't > > mention the width of the shifter, so I don't know if I'll be able to fitthe > > 2 side by side. Does anyone know the width of either just the shifter,or

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> > the shifter and the wheel together? > > 21 1/2" wide with the shifter snugged up against the wheel. The shifter > uses a metal bar that slides under the wheel and when you clamp the wheel > to the desk, it is clamped along with it. An inch or two of the shifter > hanging off the side of your desk ought to be no problem. Unless there is > a wall there. ;) > > > > 4 - Finally, how easy is it to remove and replace the wheel when not in

use? > > I've read that the desktop clamp system is somewhat clumsy. How baddoes > > this make it to constantly remove and re-install the wheel as often astwice

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> > a day? > > > > It's cumbersome. All the wires come up to the wheel (unlike my old Logi, > one wire came up to the desk with it). That's three sets, plus the > shifter I need to get up off the floor and guide all the wires around my > computer case and onto the desk, shuffling mousepad and keyboard around. > > > Thanks in advance for any advice. I really want to get this wheel, I

just > > want to make sure it's the right wheel for me. If I don't go with theRS, > > I'll probably have to go with the MS FFB wheel, and I'd rather not putmore

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> > money into Microsoft's pocket. Thanks again! > > > > Tex > > > > I like the RS, I think. I am giving it a lot of time. The shifter is the > main thing, it adds so much to the experience. I don't want to go back to > paddle shifting in GPL. > > MRSisson > > -- > LOAD "GPL",8,1 > RUN

if you do the gtx tweak for the pedals it make them longer and it is DEFINITELY an improvement for braking control in GPL. I can't agree with the oversteering thing due to the dents in the belt, that is utter rubbish, the reveiwer should have more control over his right foot and that's all, because if you keep the wheel turned at the same angle but accelerate earlier you will UNDERSTEER, do it has nothign to do with the belt, besides that there is also a tweak on GTX's page to make the wheel smoother. www.slottweak.com "Tex" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: NlHh6.806$[email hidden]... > I'm fairly new to sim racing, and I'm looking to pick up a wheel. I'vejust > about decided on the Force RS with the shifter, but I've got somequestions

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> first for those in the know: > > 1 - Of all of the reviews I've read, only one was anything but totally > positive. At simhq > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/wheels/index.shtml) the > reviewer thought that the stitching in the belts that control the wheel > cause one to oversteer in a game like GPL that requires small precise > movements. He also mentions a similar problem in the brake pedal. This,

to > me, seems like enough of an issue to cause me to look elsewhere for awheel, > but I've not heard of the problem anywhere else, so I'm hoping some owners > here might be able to shed some light on whether this is really much of an > issue. > > 2 - I'm planning on buying the RS shifter, but I may not get itimmediately

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> and I'm curious as to how usable the paddle shifters are. I've heard some > comments that they're somewhat uncomfortable/difficult to use. Any > thoughts? > > 3 - I've got a small desk area on which to fit this setup (about 20 inches > wide due to the shape of my desk, although depth is not an issue.) > Act-labs.com says that the width of the wheel is 15 inches, but didn't > mention the width of the shifter, so I don't know if I'll be able to fit

the > 2 side by side. Does anyone know the width of either just the shifter, or > the shifter and the wheel together? > > 4 - Finally, how easy is it to remove and replace the wheel when not inuse? > I've read that the desktop clamp system is somewhat clumsy. How bad does > this make it to constantly remove and re-install the wheel as often astwice > a day? > > Thanks in advance for any advice. I really want to get this wheel, I just > want to make sure it's the right wheel for me. If I don't go with the RS, > I'll probably have to go with the MS FFB wheel, and I'd rather not putmore > money into Microsoft's pocket. Thanks again! > > Tex > >

See replies below. -- Chris "Ambulater" Lee "Don't Bother Running.........You'll Just Die Tired." Reviews at www.sim-arena.com "Tex" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NlHh6.806$[email hidden]... > I'm fairly new to sim racing, and I'm looking to pick up a wheel. I've just > about decided on the Force RS with the shifter, but I've got some questions > first for those in the know: > > 1 - Of all of the reviews I've read, only one was anything but totally > positive. At simhq > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/wheels/index.shtml) the > reviewer thought that the stitching in the belts that control the wheel > cause one to oversteer in a game like GPL that requires small precise > movements. He also mentions a similar problem in the brake pedal. This, to > me, seems like enough of an issue to cause me to look elsewhere for a wheel, > but I've not heard of the problem anywhere else, so I'm hoping some owners > here might be able to shed some light on whether this is really much of an > issue. The feel of the wheel does not have to be notchy. You mainly see people complaining about this in GPL and I would argue it's largely because of their core.ini settings. I know know, this opens a can of worms, but.............. A lot of people run the "damping" setting in the core.ini way too high which results in very strong grass and guard rail effects, but also tends to make the wheel feel more notchy then it needs to. Granted you can feel the belts in the FRS a bit more than some other wheels (especially when new), but I don't see it as a major control issue. On the other hand, the pedals are a mixed bag to be sure. On the upside the pedals are design very smartly so they don't slide during use. This is done by orienting the pedals to require downward force instead of forward force that pushes the pedals away. Unfortunately, they both have a real sticking point in them (more noticable when new) that makes fine throttle control a bit tricky and fine brake control frustrating. Fortunately RS Labs is at work on a high-end hard-core pedal system with a clutch that is supposed to adress these issues sometime this year. The new pedals will NOT come with the wheel but will be sold seperately so you're not losing anything by buying now. It sounds like the price range they are shooting at for the pedals should be pretty moderate, maybe as low as $80! The current pedals get much better with use and many do the www.slottweak.com revision to improve responsiveness. > > 2 - I'm planning on buying the RS shifter, but I may not get it immediately > and I'm curious as to how usable the paddle shifters are. I've heard some > comments that they're somewhat uncomfortable/difficult to use. Any > thoughts? Not usre what all the hub-bub is here. I know the original paddles were pretty flimsy, but the current paddles seem just fine to me. I used them for a about a month before i got my shifter and had no problems...........of course after getting the shifter with the 5 speed GPL plate I'll never go back. > > 3 - I've got a small desk area on which to fit this setup (about 20 inches > wide due to the shape of my desk, although depth is not an issue.) > Act-labs.com says that the width of the wheel is 15 inches, but didn't > mention the width of the shifter, so I don't know if I'll be able to fit the > 2 side by side. Does anyone know the width of either just the shifter, or > the shifter and the wheel together? You might have a problem here. I just measured and the wheel and shifter side by side our 21 3/4". However, they don't have to be mounted side by side as the shifter comes with a fairly long cord. I've seen some guys mount the shifter low on the arm rest of their chair for a more natural position. > > 4 - Finally, how easy is it to remove and replace the wheel when not in use? > I've read that the desktop clamp system is somewhat clumsy. How bad does > this make it to constantly remove and re-install the wheel as often as twice > a day? I'm not sure why anyone would complain about the clamping system. You want to see a pain in the butt just check out the TM NASCAR Pro I was using prior to the RS. I find the system for clamping the RS to be comparitviely ingenious and easy. I take it off every night when I'm done with it so the kids don't mess with it, and I switch back and forth btween the RS and my TM HOTAS constantly. > > Thanks in advance for any advice. I really want to get this wheel, I just > want to make sure it's the right wheel for me. If I don't go with the RS, > I'll probably have to go with the MS FFB wheel, and I'd rather not put more > money into Microsoft's pocket. Thanks again! It's a great wheel, the shifter experience is outstanding, and it's only going to get better when the new high end pedal system with the clutch comes out. > > Tex > >

The notchy feeling that people tend to complain about is not caused by the belts, but by the motor. Being powerful, you can feel the pull of the armature as each stack (pole) passes the magnets. There are a couple things to consider. First, you don't have to run the Overall Device Gain at 100%. Turning it down to 60% or so in many games will almost eliminate the notches and still provide plenty of FF strength. That's what the setting is there for. Second, in GPL you'll get more pull on the wheel (notchiness) with lower Torques values in core.ini. A simple test for this is to set your Damping in core.ini to any reasonable value, then try different values for the torque setting. You'll notice that the higher the value, the less notchiness you'll feel. Many of the core.ini settings were established when the LWFF was the dominant wheel and the Force RS wasn't yet introduced. Given the huge differences between these two wheels, ask yourself if it really makes sense that the settings for the LWFF (like torque=225 and damping=40) would also work well for the RS. If you're happy with these settings, fine. But don't use them just because they were recommended for the LWFF a year and a half ago. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

Thanks everyone for the replies. It sounds like this is the wheel for me, although I'll probably have to do some tweaking to the pedals, the FFB settings, and come up with some kind of workaround mounting bracket for the shifter, but I figure it's all worth it for a top-notch wheel. I'll be ordering this puppy this afternoon. Thanks again! Tex Ambulater <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7L%h6.2703$[email hidden]...

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> See replies below. > > -- > Chris "Ambulater" Lee > "Don't Bother Running.........You'll Just Die Tired." > Reviews at www.sim-arena.com > > > "Tex" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:NlHh6.806$[email hidden]... > > I'm fairly new to sim racing, and I'm looking to pick up a wheel. I've > just > > about decided on the Force RS with the shifter, but I've got some > questions > > first for those in the know: > > > > 1 - Of all of the reviews I've read, only one was anything but totally > > positive. At simhq > > http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/wheels/index.shtml) the > > reviewer thought that the stitching in the belts that control the wheel > > cause one to oversteer in a game like GPL that requires small precise > > movements. He also mentions a similar problem in the brake pedal.

This, > to > > me, seems like enough of an issue to cause me to look elsewhere for a > wheel, > > but I've not heard of the problem anywhere else, so I'm hoping someowners > > here might be able to shed some light on whether this is really much ofan

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> > issue. > > The feel of the wheel does not have to be notchy. You mainly see people > complaining about this in GPL and I would argue it's largely because of > their core.ini settings. I know know, this opens a can of worms, > but.............. A lot of people run the "damping" setting in the > core.ini way too high which results in very strong grass and guard rail > effects, but also tends to make the wheel feel more notchy then it needs

to. > Granted you can feel the belts in the FRS a bit more than some otherwheels > (especially when new), but I don't see it as a major control issue. Onthe > other hand, the pedals are a mixed bag to be sure. On the upside thepedals > are design very smartly so they don't slide during use. This is done by > orienting the pedals to require downward force instead of forward forcethat > pushes the pedals away. Unfortunately, they both have a real stickingpoint

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> in them (more noticable when new) that makes fine throttle control a bit > tricky and fine brake control frustrating. Fortunately RS Labs is at work > on a high-end hard-core pedal system with a clutch that is supposed to > adress these issues sometime this year. The new pedals will NOT come with > the wheel but will be sold seperately so you're not losing anything by > buying now. It sounds like the price range they are shooting at for the > pedals should be pretty moderate, maybe as low as $80! The current pedals > get much better with use and many do the www.slottweak.com revision to > improve responsiveness. > > > > > 2 - I'm planning on buying the RS shifter, but I may not get it > immediately > > and I'm curious as to how usable the paddle shifters are. I've heard

some > > comments that they're somewhat uncomfortable/difficult to use. Any > > thoughts? > > Not usre what all the hub-bub is here. I know the original paddles were > pretty flimsy, but the current paddles seem just fine to me. I used them > for a about a month before i got my shifter and had noproblems...........of > course after getting the shifter with the 5 speed GPL plate I'll never go > back. > > > > > 3 - I've got a small desk area on which to fit this setup (about 20inches > > wide due to the shape of my desk, although depth is not an issue.) > > Act-labs.com says that the width of the wheel is 15 inches, but didn't > > mention the width of the shifter, so I don't know if I'll be able to fit > the > > 2 side by side. Does anyone know the width of either just the shifter,or

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> > the shifter and the wheel together? > > You might have a problem here. I just measured and the wheel and shifter > side by side our 21 3/4". However, they don't have to be mounted side by > side as the shifter comes with a fairly long cord. I've seen some guys > mount the shifter low on the arm rest of their chair for a more natural > position. > > > > > 4 - Finally, how easy is it to remove and replace the wheel when not in > use? > > I've read that the desktop clamp system is somewhat clumsy. How bad

does > > this make it to constantly remove and re-install the wheel as often as > twice > > a day? > > I'm not sure why anyone would complain about the clamping system. Youwant > to see a pain in the butt just check out the TM NASCAR Pro I was usingprior > to the RS. I find the system for clamping the RS to be comparitviely > ingenious and easy. I take it off every night when I'm done with it sothe > kids don't mess with it, and I switch back and forth btween the RS and myTM > HOTAS constantly. > > > > > Thanks in advance for any advice. I really want to get this wheel, Ijust > > want to make sure it's the right wheel for me. If I don't go with theRS, > > I'll probably have to go with the MS FFB wheel, and I'd rather not put > more > > money into Microsoft's pocket. Thanks again! > > It's a great wheel, the shifter experience is outstanding, and it's only > going to get better when the new high end pedal system with the clutchcomes

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> out. > > > > > Tex > > > > > > >