Earnhardt and open faced helmet

The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced helmet. I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the sport is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it.

It's true. I think he was the only driver still wearing one. He always felt the full faced helmets restricted his view. On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000, "Raja" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced helmet. >I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the sport >is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common >practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver >would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more >shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car >capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. >If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this >tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > >

Some still wear them in the British Touring Car Championship - John Cleland was the prime example - wonder if he'll still wear one now he's an ASCAR driver? -- Dan Francis "Raja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced helmet. > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the sport > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > >

Yep, he sure did. He also wore it during the last 24 hours of Daytona, and one of the commentators remarked on the possible consequences after some debris was kicked up out on the track. "Raja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfacedhelmet. > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in thesport

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> is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > >

Little E did, too. It'll be interesting to see if he does thsi weekend. -Pav "Power Post 2000" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It's true. I think he was the only driver still wearing one. > He always felt the full faced helmets restricted his view. > > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000, "Raja" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced

helmet. > >I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in thesport > >is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > >practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > >would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > >shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into acar > >capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > >If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > >tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > >

Unfortunately, Dale Jr. picked up his dad's bad habit of wearing open face helmets. I certainly hope he reconsiders in the near future. -- ------------------------------------- Morgan Vincent Wooten GPLRank: +10.02 http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/ ------------------------------------- "Power Post 2000" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > It's true. I think he was the only driver still wearing one. > He always felt the full faced helmets restricted his view. > > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000, "Raja" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced helmet. > >I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the sport > >is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > >practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > >would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > >shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > >capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > >If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > >tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > >

Actually, there's a number of drivers who use the open face helmet. DE, DE Jr, Jimmy Spencer, and Dick Trickle to name a few. The NASCAR required the use of a helmet. It doesn't regulate open or closed. I'm certain there is a spec for it's crashworthiness. DE and Jimmy just feel more comfortable with the open face. Dick Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually smokes *while* racing. You'll never see it on TV (by contract); but he actually smokes in the cockpit. (No, there's no regulation prohibiting it, it's just habit for Dick.) I would agree that it's a bad idea to use an open faced helmet, but you can't tell a driver nothin' (unless you're either an official or the owner sometimes a crew chief can get his point across though). Although an open faced helment certainly would not have prevented this fatality. Speculation is that the HANS device might not have been able to save him. "Morgan V. Wooten" wrote:

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> Unfortunately, Dale Jr. picked up his dad's bad habit of wearing open face > helmets. I certainly hope he reconsiders in the near future. > > -- > ------------------------------------- > Morgan Vincent Wooten > GPLRank: +10.02 > http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/ > ------------------------------------- > > "Power Post 2000" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > It's true. I think he was the only driver still wearing one. > > He always felt the full faced helmets restricted his view. > > > > > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000, "Raja" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced helmet. > > >I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the sport > > >is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > > >practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > > >would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > >shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > > >capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > > >If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > > >tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > > > > > >

Well, why do you really need a closed-face helmet in a stock car?

Fire is the main concern. On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:42:22 GMT, "drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Well, why do you really need a closed-face helmet in a stock car? > >

Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head on impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in more danger wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this you could probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. The type of injury suffered by Dale Earnhardt more than likely is the same as Petty and Irwin's -- a basalar skull fracture. Most of the news calls this sever head trama and people don't relate this to a broken neck which descibes it better. Basically with a basalar skull fracture your skull and brain move so forcefully that they snap off from your spine, killing instantly. I think the press is doing a disservice to the public by describing this as sever head trauma. One guy I work with actually thought Dale probably hit his head really hard on the dash and that an airbag might have helped...(yeah, helped everyone that gets bumped to have an airbag deploy in their face so they can't see to stay out of a wreck) Anyway, I also found the comments of the examing doctor to be very misleading and not at all helping anyone want to learn more about the HANS device or other saftey measures that are designed to prevent this exact injury. FROM FOX NEWS "Dr. Steve Bohannon, who tried to save Earnhardt's life as the driver sat slumped in the wreckage, said the autopsy performed Monday confirmed what everyone suspected: Earnhardt died on impact. He sustained a skull fracture that ran from the front to the back of his brain. The autopsy didn't include any test whether a HANS device would have saved Earnhardt. Bohannon said he had doubts how effective the device would have been in this accident "Even if you restrain the head and neck in this type of injury with the forces we're talking about - hitting a concrete barricade at 150, 170 mph - there's still one more element you have to address," Bohannon said. "All those organs internally still move at time of impact," and that could be fatal, too." His comment basically calls the HANS device useless in this type of wreck...however, if you read closely he goes on to say that Dale's fracture mighgt have been prevented BUT other elements COULD still have caused death TOO...well that I think is a pretty big and unproven TOO to be using when his statement is going to influence not only the govering body of the sport but also many of its drivers young and old across the country. Well, if it was me, give me the HANS device and prevent my head popping off my body...I'll worry later if my brain is so scrabled I don't want to go on....but maybe drivers just don't want to hear about it period. Raja <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfacedhelmet. > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in thesport

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> is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > >

Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> wrote on 20 Feb 2001: <snip> >Dick >Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually >smokes *while* racing.<snip> Hmmm "Smokin' Jo" Winkelhock comes to mind... if anything ought to banned, this ought. There's no place in any form of motorsport for smoking - it goes against the basic principle of safety - no-one should be subjected to any unnecessary danger. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +287.79) Earn (not very much) cash with "Ciao!" reviews - http://uk.ciao.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

> Dick Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually smokes*while* > racing. You'll never see it on TV (by contract); but he actually smokesin the > cockpit. (No, there's no regulation prohibiting it, it's just habit forDick.) I seem to remember stories about Tiny Lund, I think it was, who used to drive one-handed while smoking a cigar. (Might have been Junior Johnson.) Jerry Morelock

Yes he was wearing an open faced helmet and he always has wore one. IT DID NOT CAUSE HIS DEATH. CW "Raja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfacedhelmet. > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in thesport

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> is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > >

There is a good link at http://www.hansdevice.com/news on head trauma. Why wouldn't an airbag help by supporting the head and absorbing energy? If it's set to go off at 30 G's, the driver probably wouldn't be driving away anyway. "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UVDk6.148411$[email hidden]... > Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head on > impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of > debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in moredanger

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> wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this you could > probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. > > The type of injury suffered by Dale Earnhardt more than likely is the same > as Petty and Irwin's -- a basalar skull fracture. Most of the news calls > this sever head trama and people don't relate this to a broken neck which > descibes it better. Basically with a basalar skull fracture your skull and > brain move so forcefully that they snap off from your spine, killing > instantly. I think the press is doing a disservice to the public by > describing this as sever head trauma. One guy I work with actually thought > Dale probably hit his head really hard on the dash and that an airbag

might

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> have helped...(yeah, helped everyone that gets bumped to have an airbag > deploy in their face so they can't see to stay out of a wreck) > > Anyway, I also found the comments of the examing doctor to be very > misleading and not at all helping anyone want to learn more about the HANS > device or other saftey measures that are designed to prevent this exact > injury. > > FROM FOX NEWS > "Dr. Steve Bohannon, who tried to save Earnhardt's life as the driver sat > slumped in the wreckage, said the autopsy performed Monday confirmed what > everyone suspected: Earnhardt died on impact. He sustained a skull

fracture

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> that ran from the front to the back of his brain. > > The autopsy didn't include any test whether a HANS device would have saved > Earnhardt. Bohannon said he had doubts how effective the device would have > been in this accident > > "Even if you restrain the head and neck in this type of injury with the > forces we're talking about - hitting a concrete barricade at 150, 170

mph - > there's still one more element you have to address," Bohannon said. "All > those organs internally still move at time of impact," and that could be > fatal, too." > > His comment basically calls the HANS device useless in this type of > wreck...however, if you read closely he goes on to say that Dale'sfracture > mighgt have been prevented BUT other elements COULD still have causeddeath > TOO...well that I think is a pretty big and unproven TOO to be using when > his statement is going to influence not only the govering body of thesport > but also many of its drivers young and old across the country. > > Well, if it was me, give me the HANS device and prevent my head poppingoff

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> my body...I'll worry later if my brain is so scrabled I don't want to go > on....but maybe drivers just don't want to hear about it period. > > > > Raja <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced > helmet. > > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the > sport > > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a

car > > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open facedhelmet. > > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > >

Was there any mention of other internal injuries? Under high G-loads, the heart can be detatched from the aorta. I think this is what killed some modified drivers in the 70s or 80s. There is no visible injury, but they bleed to death internally. On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:25:24 GMT, "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head on >impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of >debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in more danger >wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this you could >probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. > >The type of injury suffered by Dale Earnhardt more than likely is the same >as Petty and Irwin's -- a basalar skull fracture. Most of the news calls >this sever head trama and people don't relate this to a broken neck which >descibes it better. Basically with a basalar skull fracture your skull and >brain move so forcefully that they snap off from your spine, killing >instantly. I think the press is doing a disservice to the public by >describing this as sever head trauma. One guy I work with actually thought >Dale probably hit his head really hard on the dash and that an airbag might >have helped...(yeah, helped everyone that gets bumped to have an airbag >deploy in their face so they can't see to stay out of a wreck) > >Anyway, I also found the comments of the examing doctor to be very >misleading and not at all helping anyone want to learn more about the HANS >device or other saftey measures that are designed to prevent this exact >injury. > >FROM FOX NEWS >"Dr. Steve Bohannon, who tried to save Earnhardt's life as the driver sat >slumped in the wreckage, said the autopsy performed Monday confirmed what >everyone suspected: Earnhardt died on impact. He sustained a skull fracture >that ran from the front to the back of his brain. > >The autopsy didn't include any test whether a HANS device would have saved >Earnhardt. Bohannon said he had doubts how effective the device would have >been in this accident > >"Even if you restrain the head and neck in this type of injury with the >forces we're talking about - hitting a concrete barricade at 150, 170 mph - >there's still one more element you have to address," Bohannon said. "All >those organs internally still move at time of impact," and that could be >fatal, too." > >His comment basically calls the HANS device useless in this type of >wreck...however, if you read closely he goes on to say that Dale's fracture >mighgt have been prevented BUT other elements COULD still have caused death >TOO...well that I think is a pretty big and unproven TOO to be using when >his statement is going to influence not only the govering body of the sport >but also many of its drivers young and old across the country. > >Well, if it was me, give me the HANS device and prevent my head popping off >my body...I'll worry later if my brain is so scrabled I don't want to go >on....but maybe drivers just don't want to hear about it period. > > > >Raja <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... >> The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced >helmet. >> I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the >sport >> is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common >> practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver >> would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more >> shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car >> capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. >> If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this >> tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. >> >> > >

I also found a good article about Petty and Irwin injuries http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm hmmm....maybe NASCAR will think more about it now and make some manditory saftey changes... L_NiN0 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UVDk6.148411$[email hidden]... > Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head on > impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of > debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in moredanger

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> wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this you could > probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. > > The type of injury suffered by Dale Earnhardt more than likely is the same > as Petty and Irwin's -- a basalar skull fracture. Most of the news calls > this sever head trama and people don't relate this to a broken neck which > descibes it better. Basically with a basalar skull fracture your skull and > brain move so forcefully that they snap off from your spine, killing > instantly. I think the press is doing a disservice to the public by > describing this as sever head trauma. One guy I work with actually thought > Dale probably hit his head really hard on the dash and that an airbag

might

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> have helped...(yeah, helped everyone that gets bumped to have an airbag > deploy in their face so they can't see to stay out of a wreck) > > Anyway, I also found the comments of the examing doctor to be very > misleading and not at all helping anyone want to learn more about the HANS > device or other saftey measures that are designed to prevent this exact > injury. > > FROM FOX NEWS > "Dr. Steve Bohannon, who tried to save Earnhardt's life as the driver sat > slumped in the wreckage, said the autopsy performed Monday confirmed what > everyone suspected: Earnhardt died on impact. He sustained a skull

fracture

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> that ran from the front to the back of his brain. > > The autopsy didn't include any test whether a HANS device would have saved > Earnhardt. Bohannon said he had doubts how effective the device would have > been in this accident > > "Even if you restrain the head and neck in this type of injury with the > forces we're talking about - hitting a concrete barricade at 150, 170

mph - > there's still one more element you have to address," Bohannon said. "All > those organs internally still move at time of impact," and that could be > fatal, too." > > His comment basically calls the HANS device useless in this type of > wreck...however, if you read closely he goes on to say that Dale'sfracture > mighgt have been prevented BUT other elements COULD still have causeddeath > TOO...well that I think is a pretty big and unproven TOO to be using when > his statement is going to influence not only the govering body of thesport > but also many of its drivers young and old across the country. > > Well, if it was me, give me the HANS device and prevent my head poppingoff

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> my body...I'll worry later if my brain is so scrabled I don't want to go > on....but maybe drivers just don't want to hear about it period. > > > > Raja <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced > helmet. > > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the > sport > > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a

car > > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open facedhelmet. > > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > >

Raja wrote:

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> > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced helmet. > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the sport > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it.

It's true. I always wore one on my bike too. The full-face helmets restrict your view way too much. -- Fester

I actually saw Dick Trickle having a smoke during a yellow once. No, folks. He don't do it during green laps :) I thought it was somewhat humorous :) -Larry "Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Actually, there's a number of drivers who use the open face helmet. DE,DE Jr, > Jimmy Spencer, and Dick Trickle to name a few. The NASCAR required theuse of a > helmet. It doesn't regulate open or closed. I'm certain there is a specfor it's > crashworthiness. DE and Jimmy just feel more comfortable with the openface. > Dick Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually smokes*while* > racing. You'll never see it on TV (by contract); but he actually smokesin the > cockpit. (No, there's no regulation prohibiting it, it's just habit forDick.) I > would agree that it's a bad idea to use an open faced helmet, but youcan't tell a > driver nothin' (unless you're either an official or the owner sometimes acrew > chief can get his point across though). > > Although an open faced helment certainly would not have prevented thisfatality. > Speculation is that the HANS device might not have been able to save him. > > > "Morgan V. Wooten" wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Dale Jr. picked up his dad's bad habit of wearing openface

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> > helmets. I certainly hope he reconsiders in the near future. > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------- > > Morgan Vincent Wooten > > GPLRank: +10.02 > > http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/ > > ------------------------------------- > > > > "Power Post 2000" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > It's true. I think he was the only driver still wearing one. > > > He always felt the full faced helmets restricted his view. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000, "Raja" <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced

helmet. > > > >I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in thesport > > > >is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is itcommon > > > >practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that anydriver > > > >would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > > >shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver intoa car > > > >capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open facedhelmet. > > > >If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away fromthis > > > >tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Good Grief :( -Larry "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> wrote on 20 Feb 2001: > > <snip> > >Dick > >Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually > >smokes *while* racing. > <snip> > > Hmmm "Smokin' Jo" Winkelhock comes to mind... if anything ought to > banned, this ought. There's no place in any form of motorsport for > smoking - it goes against the basic principle of safety - no-one should > be subjected to any unnecessary danger. > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +287.79) > Earn (not very much) cash with "Ciao!" reviews - http://uk.ciao.com > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Yep. -Larry "Power Post 2000" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Fire is the main concern. > > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:42:22 GMT, "drinklime" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Well, why do you really need a closed-face helmet in a stock car? > > > > >

Yep. -Larry

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> Fire is the main concern. > >Well, why do you really need a closed-face helmet in a stock car?

There is no possible way they could EVER program an Air Bag for a race car. Not only that, but I can almost guarantee you that the damned thing would end up going off when it's not supposed to (you can't possibly program around all the dynamics a car goes through in a race) and would cause a wreck in and of itself. I am confident that we will never see Air Bags in Cup Cars. However, the "My Car Turned Into A Canolly" idea from the movie "Demolition Man" might work :) -Larry "Peter 'kayakr' Ashley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mLEk6.6985$[email hidden]... > There is a good link at http://www.hansdevice.com/news on head trauma.Why

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> wouldn't an airbag help by supporting the head and absorbing energy? If > it's set to go off at 30 G's, the driver probably wouldn't be driving away > anyway. > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UVDk6.148411$[email hidden]... > > Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head

on > > impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of > > debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in more > danger > > wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this youcould > > probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. > > > > The type of injury suffered by Dale Earnhardt more than likely is thesame > > as Petty and Irwin's -- a basalar skull fracture. Most of the news calls > > this sever head trama and people don't relate this to a broken neckwhich > > descibes it better. Basically with a basalar skull fracture your skulland > > brain move so forcefully that they snap off from your spine, killing > > instantly. I think the press is doing a disservice to the public by > > describing this as sever head trauma. One guy I work with actuallythought

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> > Dale probably hit his head really hard on the dash and that an airbag > might > > have helped...(yeah, helped everyone that gets bumped to have an airbag > > deploy in their face so they can't see to stay out of a wreck) > > > > Anyway, I also found the comments of the examing doctor to be very > > misleading and not at all helping anyone want to learn more about the

HANS > > device or other saftey measures that are designed to prevent this exact > > injury. > > > > FROM FOX NEWS > > "Dr. Steve Bohannon, who tried to save Earnhardt's life as the driversat > > slumped in the wreckage, said the autopsy performed Monday confirmedwhat > > everyone suspected: Earnhardt died on impact. He sustained a skull > fracture > > that ran from the front to the back of his brain. > > > > The autopsy didn't include any test whether a HANS device would havesaved > > Earnhardt. Bohannon said he had doubts how effective the device wouldhave

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> > been in this accident > > > > "Even if you restrain the head and neck in this type of injury with the > > forces we're talking about - hitting a concrete barricade at 150, 170 > mph - > > there's still one more element you have to address," Bohannon said. "All > > those organs internally still move at time of impact," and that could be > > fatal, too." > > > > His comment basically calls the HANS device useless in this type of > > wreck...however, if you read closely he goes on to say that Dale's > fracture > > mighgt have been prevented BUT other elements COULD still have caused > death > > TOO...well that I think is a pretty big and unproven TOO to be using

when

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> > his statement is going to influence not only the govering body of the > sport > > but also many of its drivers young and old across the country. > > > > Well, if it was me, give me the HANS device and prevent my head popping > off > > my body...I'll worry later if my brain is so scrabled I don't want to go > > on....but maybe drivers just don't want to hear about it period. > > > > > > > > Raja <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > > > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced > > helmet. > > > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the > > sport > > > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > > > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any

driver > > > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a > car > > > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced > helmet. > > > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away fromthis

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> > > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > >

>>Well, why do you really need a closed-face helmet in a stock car? >> > >Debris that come through your smashed windshield >poking your eyes out? > Considering that Dale and Dale Jr. wore goggles, I doubt this was a concern. - Alan Dale Earnhardt, 1951-2001: "The Last American Hero" R.I.P.

Hey Larry, That is an awfully short-sighted claim. I wouldn't guarantee that it will happen, but, to say it can't be done, well, I just don't buy it. With the proper mix of accelerometers, gyros and some well written software, I have no doubt it could be done. I'd bet the logic can be created to prevent false triggers for any racing scenario you can come up with. Obviously, it's complex and could be done poorly or done well depending on whose doing it and how well developed it is, but, I'm certain it could be done. Randy On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:05:21 GMT, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>There is no possible way they could EVER program an Air Bag for a race car. > >Not only that, but I can almost guarantee you that the damned thing would >end up going off when it's not supposed to (you can't possibly program >around all the dynamics a car goes through in a race) and would cause a >wreck in and of itself. > >I am confident that we will never see Air Bags in Cup Cars.

nope......might have been even better off in this particular situation if he wouldn't have had a helmet at all. thus reducing the total amount of weight on his head/neck. doubtful though. :( Cowen Wilson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yes he was wearing an open faced helmet and he always has wore one. ITDID

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> NOT CAUSE HIS DEATH. > > CW > > "Raja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced > helmet. > > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the > sport > > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a

car > > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open facedhelmet.

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> > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > > >

If you've ever seen the replay of Geoff Bodine's crash about 10 years back, you'd understand. For those who haven't seen it, he was involved in a head on incident of a heavy crash *and* he had an in car camera. The pictures of him (in a full faced helmet) smacking into the steering wheel face first was all the reason most drivers needed to make the switch. They replaced the wheel and his helmet easy enough. drinklime wrote: > Well, why do you really need a closed-face helmet in a stock car?

Lol. Back in 'those days' it was almost anything goes. La Mans changed that. On a dissimilar note, once Fonty Flock drove with a real live monkey in the car for several races. Had a uniform, helmet, the works. This was done with the officials of the day turning their back to it. Then, one race the monkey lifted the trap door that the drivers use to check tire wear (remember, firewalls weren't really a big concern at the time) and freaked. Next pit stop (a lap or two later) and Jacko Flocko (the monkey) was 'retired' from racing. BTW, Mr Spencer, if you're reading this, no, NASCAR will not let you do this these days. chainbreaker wrote:

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> > Dick Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually smokes > *while* > > racing. You'll never see it on TV (by contract); but he actually smokes > in the > > cockpit. (No, there's no regulation prohibiting it, it's just habit for > Dick.) > > I seem to remember stories about Tiny Lund, I think it was, who used to > drive one-handed while smoking a cigar. (Might have been Junior Johnson.) > > Jerry Morelock

David Buttery wrote:

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> > Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> wrote on 20 Feb 2001: > > <snip> > >Dick > >Trickle has has a somewhat more practicle reason. He actually > >smokes *while* racing. > <snip> > > Hmmm "Smokin' Jo" Winkelhock comes to mind... if anything ought to > banned, this ought. There's no place in any form of motorsport for > smoking - it goes against the basic principle of safety - no-one should > be subjected to any unnecessary danger.

As far as I remember, Winkelhock only smokes after climbing out of his car. And that's his damn right (speaking as a smoker, I mean ;) -- l8er ronny Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:52:46 GMT, "Morgan V. Wooten" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Unfortunately, Dale Jr. picked up his dad's bad habit of wearing open face >helmets. I certainly hope he reconsiders in the near future. Wasn't Dale's only requirement for Dale Jr. to drive a race car was for him to also wear an open face helmet? I believe I saw a snippet about that a good while ago...

Why don't they investigate more into the use of softwall technology? They run on a track over 50 years old that is basically the same since its conception into the circuit. The cars have improved with technology over the years but the track remains the same. The only recent major improvements I recall that have been made to Daytona have been the addition of more seating and lighting. "Randy Riggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hey Larry, > > That is an awfully short-sighted claim. I wouldn't guarantee that it > will happen, but, to say it can't be done, well, I just don't buy it. > > With the proper mix of accelerometers, gyros and some well written > software, I have no doubt it could be done. > > I'd bet the logic can be created to prevent false triggers for any > racing scenario you can come up with. Obviously, it's complex and > could be done poorly or done well depending on whose doing it and how > well developed it is, but, I'm certain it could be done. > > Randy > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:05:21 GMT, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >There is no possible way they could EVER program an Air Bag for a race

car.

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> > > >Not only that, but I can almost guarantee you that the damned thing would > >end up going off when it's not supposed to (you can't possibly program > >around all the dynamics a car goes through in a race) and would cause a > >wreck in and of itself. > > > >I am confident that we will never see Air Bags in Cup Cars. >

Man, just think about it... Please... This is a useless argument. It won't work. -Larry "Randy Riggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hey Larry, > > That is an awfully short-sighted claim. I wouldn't guarantee that it > will happen, but, to say it can't be done, well, I just don't buy it. > > With the proper mix of accelerometers, gyros and some well written > software, I have no doubt it could be done. > > I'd bet the logic can be created to prevent false triggers for any > racing scenario you can come up with. Obviously, it's complex and > could be done poorly or done well depending on whose doing it and how > well developed it is, but, I'm certain it could be done. > > Randy > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:05:21 GMT, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >There is no possible way they could EVER program an Air Bag for a race

car.

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> > > >Not only that, but I can almost guarantee you that the damned thing would > >end up going off when it's not supposed to (you can't possibly program > >around all the dynamics a car goes through in a race) and would cause a > >wreck in and of itself. > > > >I am confident that we will never see Air Bags in Cup Cars. >

Nascar doesn't even mandate Snell certified helmets...its pretty bad. JB "Raja" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfacedhelmet. > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in thesport

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> is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a car > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open faced helmet. > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > >

I believe that even with the HANS device Dale's injuries would have still been fatal or life threatening. The autopsy revealed that he also had broken 8 ribs, a broken sternum, a broken left ankle, and a collaposed lung. "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UVDk6.148411$[email hidden]... > Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head on > impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of > debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in moredanger

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> wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this you could > probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. > > The type of injury suffered by Dale Earnhardt more than likely is the same > as Petty and Irwin's -- a basalar skull fracture. Most of the news calls > this sever head trama and people don't relate this to a broken neck which > descibes it better. Basically with a basalar skull fracture your skull and > brain move so forcefully that they snap off from your spine, killing > instantly. I think the press is doing a disservice to the public by > describing this as sever head trauma. One guy I work with actually thought > Dale probably hit his head really hard on the dash and that an airbag

might

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> have helped...(yeah, helped everyone that gets bumped to have an airbag > deploy in their face so they can't see to stay out of a wreck) > > Anyway, I also found the comments of the examing doctor to be very > misleading and not at all helping anyone want to learn more about the HANS > device or other saftey measures that are designed to prevent this exact > injury. > > FROM FOX NEWS > "Dr. Steve Bohannon, who tried to save Earnhardt's life as the driver sat > slumped in the wreckage, said the autopsy performed Monday confirmed what > everyone suspected: Earnhardt died on impact. He sustained a skull

fracture

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> that ran from the front to the back of his brain. > > The autopsy didn't include any test whether a HANS device would have saved > Earnhardt. Bohannon said he had doubts how effective the device would have > been in this accident > > "Even if you restrain the head and neck in this type of injury with the > forces we're talking about - hitting a concrete barricade at 150, 170

mph - > there's still one more element you have to address," Bohannon said. "All > those organs internally still move at time of impact," and that could be > fatal, too." > > His comment basically calls the HANS device useless in this type of > wreck...however, if you read closely he goes on to say that Dale'sfracture > mighgt have been prevented BUT other elements COULD still have causeddeath > TOO...well that I think is a pretty big and unproven TOO to be using when > his statement is going to influence not only the govering body of thesport > but also many of its drivers young and old across the country. > > Well, if it was me, give me the HANS device and prevent my head poppingoff

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> my body...I'll worry later if my brain is so scrabled I don't want to go > on....but maybe drivers just don't want to hear about it period. > > > > Raja <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:96ue3a$167$[email hidden]... > > The Times in the UK reported today that he was wearing an openfaced > helmet. > > I must admit I am not a huge follower of NASCAR, but any death in the > sport > > is alway painful. But, is what the Times said true? If it is it common > > practice in NASCAR. I cannot believe in this day and age that any driver > > would wear such a helmet whilst driving at such speeds. I'm even more > > shocked that any motorsport governing body would allow a driver into a

car > > capable of the kinf of speeds that NASCARs go, with an open facedhelmet. > > If I am wrong, I apologise, I am in no way trying to take away from this > > tragedy. If it is true, I cannot believe it. > > > > > >

In article <UVDk6.148411$[email hidden]>, "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> writes: >Yes, Dale and others wear an open face helmet but in this type of head on >impact the helmet really is a moot point. Maybe in a crash with a lot of >debris flying around and smashing into the cockpit you may be in more danger >wearing an open face helmet but with a head on impact like this you could >probably be wearing a space helmet and still die. I just realized what people mean by that. With the fuller, 'closed' helmet, your head simply cannot pivot as much on your neck. The neck ring built into the construction limits forward mobility. I also understand your other point, which I wondered about earlier. Ok, you stop the driver's head from snapping forward in a collision. But what stops their brain and other internal organs from being affected by momentum? Nothing. That tells me that racing can NEVER be made completely safe. Having said that, would I race if somehow given a chance? In a heartbeat... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Dog-Leg <[email hidden]> wrote on 21 Feb 2001: >Good Grief :( I don't mean the fans as well, you know! -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +287.79) Earn (not very much) cash with "Ciao!" reviews - http://uk.ciao.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

>"Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote > The NASCAR required the use of a helmet. THey don't even require it, actually! It's just a suggestion by NASCAR. > Although an open faced helment certainly would not have prevented thisfatality. Looks like it does, now... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.