Damaged Lap Belt?

OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat belt to clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other accounts until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to move about the cockpit. And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to shift the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe they were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not have helped because he died due to a failed safety device. Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR is doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm

CALL COLUMBO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L_NiN0 wrote: > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR is > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm Is that a piece of tumbleweed I just saw blowing thew this thead :). -- Gerry "Michael feels the same way about safety in auto racing as I do. Great minds think alike." - David G Fisher

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:27:46 GMT, "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat belt to >clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced >safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other accounts >until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even >though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they >would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to move >about the cockpit.

It's all about not feeding the public too much, too fast. There's also the likelihood that they wanted to make certain that the failure was not the result of a malicious act that would make his death a case of murder. >And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture >described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. It does if you drive your jaw so forcefully into the steering wheel that the whole thing is driven backwards so that both mandibular joints bend inward and punch out the back of your skull where it meets the top of the spine. >If something >sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to shift >the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe they >were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't >implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not have >helped because he died due to a failed safety device. I don't see a coverup. I see a tragic act of fate. A lousy confluence of circumstance. A coming together of a defect and the masculine determination to eschew some modern protective gear. MPH? >Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR is >doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > >http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm >If they wanted to be really safe, they could go back to the showroom stock formula with a weld-in roll-cage, safety harness, and a bolt in fuel cell to replace the stock gas tank. How'd everyone enjoy watching those showroom-stock Gran Prix, Monte Carlos, Taurus', and Intrepids whirring 'round and 'round at a breathtaking 120-130... LOL It's a dangerous sport. A lot of participants and spectators are in denial about it. Perhaps not quite so much anymore as 35 Cup teams ordered HANS devices on Monday after the wreck which killed Dale Earnhardt. Everyone wrings their hands and swears that something has to be done, but I've not heard any sensible suggestions as to what, in a concrete, descriptive fashion. Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic, hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in front of the cockpit. Let's have some ideas, folks and stop thumping our chests and wringing our hands over this. Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:27:46 GMT, "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote: >OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > >They (NASCAR) took away the evidence, the whole thing," Fiske said. "It's a fatality and you mean to tell me you didn't investigate it? What happened? I don't know. Between law enforcement and NASCAR, I feel quite certain that we could have determined exactly what took place. - James "Gunslinger" Wohlever [PAW] -- - - - Modder/Mapper - - - -- http://techware.gtinsider.com

It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html David G Fisher "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat beltto > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other accounts > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body tomove > about the cockpit. > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth toshift > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe they > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would nothave > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCARis

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> doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > >

Yeah, so go away. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HDEl6.8425$[email hidden]... > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > > http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html > > David G Fisher > > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat belt > to > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other accounts > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to > move > > about the cockpit. > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to > shift > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe they > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not > have > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR > is > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > > > > > > >

Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of threads that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale" type of threads over the past week. Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read my posts to you. David G Fisher "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XIEl6.318248$[email hidden]...

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> Yeah, so go away. > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:HDEl6.8425$[email hidden]... > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > > > > http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat > belt > > to > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of

enforced > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other > accounts > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue -even > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaningthey > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to > > move > > > about the cockpit. > > > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skullfracture

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> > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to > > shift > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe > they > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not > > have > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and

NASCAR

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> > is > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:03:19 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > >http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html A post with so many factual errors I gave up reading halfway though. Real expert you found there, David. It gives a fine endorsement of F1 safety though: "It [NASCAR deaths] is an epidemic in a time when Formula One racing, once the world's most dangerous game, has found a way to go full seasons without a death." :) "The life of a super genius is just so frustrating, having to deal with so many idiots..." -- Calvin "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile. P.A. btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts . -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6UEl6.8478$[email hidden]... > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of threads > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale" > type of threads over the past week. > > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read my > posts to you. > > David G Fisher > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XIEl6.318248$[email hidden]... > > Yeah, so go away. > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:HDEl6.8425$[email hidden]... > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > > > > > > http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat > > belt > > > to > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of > enforced > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other > > accounts > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - > even > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning > they > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to > > > move > > > > about the cockpit. > > > > > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull > fracture > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to > > > shift > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe > > they > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not > > > have > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and > NASCAR > > > is > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

And you sure have no trouble sharing your views on a sport that you claim you have no desire to watch or follow. So why care? -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M4Fl6.318258$[email hidden]... > Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile. > > P.A. > > btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts . > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6UEl6.8478$[email hidden]... > > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of > threads > > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale" > > type of threads over the past week. > > > > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read > my > > posts to you. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XIEl6.318248$[email hidden]... > > > Yeah, so go away. > > > > > > -- > > > Don Burnette > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:HDEl6.8425$[email hidden]... > > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > > > > > > > > http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html > > > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > > > > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat > > > belt > > > > to > > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of > > enforced > > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other > > > accounts > > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - > > even > > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning > > they > > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body > to > > > > move > > > > > about the cockpit. > > > > > > > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull > > fracture > > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If > something > > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth > to > > > > shift > > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe > > > they > > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they > don't > > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would > not > > > > have > > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > > > > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and > > NASCAR > > > > is > > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

You seem to fit the profile of a newsgroup pest. <plonk> "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Q6Fl6.318259$[email hidden]...

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> And you sure have no trouble sharing your views on a sport that you claim > you have no desire to watch or follow. > So why care? > > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:M4Fl6.318258$[email hidden]... > > Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile. > > > > P.A. > > > > btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts . > > -- > > Don Burnette > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:6UEl6.8478$[email hidden]... > > > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of > > threads > > > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to > Dale" > > > type of threads over the past week. > > > > > > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy

read

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> > my > > > posts to you. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:XIEl6.318248$[email hidden]... > > > > Yeah, so go away. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Don Burnette > > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:HDEl6.8425$[email hidden]... > > > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html > > > > > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > > > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn > seat > > > > belt > > > > > to > > > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of > > > enforced > > > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all

other

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> > > > accounts > > > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this > issue - > > > even > > > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it > meaning > > > they > > > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his > body > > to > > > > > move > > > > > > about the cockpit. > > > > > > > > > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull > > > fracture > > > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If > > something > > > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the

truth

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> > to > > > > > shift > > > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. > Maybe > > > > they > > > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they > > don't > > > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it

would > > not > > > > > have > > > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > > > > > > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazyand

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> > > NASCAR > > > > > is > > > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

You didn't seem to read his post. The "steel front clip" routes the engine beneath the driver in a wreck...instead of the normal lack of routing which sends the engine into the driver compartment if it goes anywhere. JB "Tim O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:15:26 GMT, [email hidden] > (Brett C. Cammack) wrote: > > >Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic, > >hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their > >cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the > >driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the > >driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in > >front of the cockpit. > > I'm not sure I follow you on putting the engine below the driver, > since you're already sitting on bare aluminum 5 inches off the track. > I wonder about placing the engine behind the driver? > The front of the car is then wide open for a crush zone and armored > footwell. This layout has definitely proven itself in CART and F1, and > has been proving itself in drag racing since the early 60's. > > The only thing is that we're then getting precariously far away from > the concept of "stock" cars. > Yes, I realize a 750 horsepower, rear wheel drive V8 has absolutely > NOTHING to do with the front wheel drive V6's they represent, but I > can still image a big stink... Such is NASCAR. > > Tim >

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:15:26 GMT, [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) wrote: >Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic, >hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their >cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the >driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the >driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in >front of the cockpit. I'm not sure I follow you on putting the engine below the driver, since you're already sitting on bare aluminum 5 inches off the track. I wonder about placing the engine behind the driver? The front of the car is then wide open for a crush zone and armored footwell. This layout has definitely proven itself in CART and F1, and has been proving itself in drag racing since the early 60's. The only thing is that we're then getting precariously far away from the concept of "stock" cars. Yes, I realize a 750 horsepower, rear wheel drive V8 has absolutely NOTHING to do with the front wheel drive V6's they represent, but I can still image a big stink... Such is NASCAR. Tim

You must have missed 18pack then. He was first in. I'd add the guy going by 'Michael', but I'm afraid I'd miss a lot of other posts as well. To me what is really 'Unbelievable' is the amount of fish this troller gets. Don Burnette wrote:

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> Good idea, congrats on being the first that will go in my killfile. > > P.A. > > btw, might be a little difficult for my mother to read your posts . > -- > Don Burnette > D Burnette in N4 > > Some people do nothing wrong. > The problem is, they do nothing. > And THAT is wrong. > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6UEl6.8478$[email hidden]... > > Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of > threads > > that I start? I haven't put any of my views in anyone's "Tribute to Dale" > > type of threads over the past week. > > > > Either one of those would be fine, or simply stop having your mommy read > my > > posts to you. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XIEl6.318248$[email hidden]... > > > Yeah, so go away. > > > > > > -- > > > Don Burnette > > > D Burnette in N4 > > > > > > Some people do nothing wrong. > > > The problem is, they do nothing. > > > And THAT is wrong. > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:HDEl6.8425$[email hidden]... > > > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. > > > > > > > > http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_kindred/20010220.html > > > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > "L_NiN0" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:SlCl6.5843$[email hidden]... > > > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > > > > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat > > > belt > > > > to > > > > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of > > enforced > > > > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other > > > accounts > > > > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - > > even > > > > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning > > they > > > > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body > to > > > > move > > > > > about the cockpit. > > > > > > > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull > > fracture > > > > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If > something > > > > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth > to > > > > shift > > > > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe > > > they > > > > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they > don't > > > > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would > not > > > > have > > > > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > > > > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and > > NASCAR > > > > is > > > > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

volvo has been having this system in their passenger cars for years and years now, apparently it works fine, makes the car a bit heavier and you use more fuel but the day you crash into another car you are happy about the extra fuel you spent. Wouldn't help much on a 300+ kph crash into a wall though "Wosco" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news: Y0Hl6.3517$[email hidden]... > You didn't seem to read his post. The "steel front clip" routes theengine > beneath the driver in a wreck...instead of the normal lack of routingwhich

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> sends the engine into the driver compartment if it goes anywhere. > > JB > > "Tim O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:15:26 GMT, [email hidden] > > (Brett C. Cammack) wrote: > > > > >Here's one I'll toss out: General Motors engineers design a generic, > > >hydroformed steel front clip for all NASCAR teams to use under their > > >cars. It's designed to collapse in a way that is favorable to the > > >driver in absorbing energy and also route the engine beneath the > > >driver's compartment to further enlarge the available crush space in > > >front of the cockpit. > > > > I'm not sure I follow you on putting the engine below the driver, > > since you're already sitting on bare aluminum 5 inches off the track. > > I wonder about placing the engine behind the driver? > > The front of the car is then wide open for a crush zone and armored > > footwell. This layout has definitely proven itself in CART and F1, and > > has been proving itself in drag racing since the early 60's. > > > > The only thing is that we're then getting precariously far away from > > the concept of "stock" cars. > > Yes, I realize a 750 horsepower, rear wheel drive V8 has absolutely > > NOTHING to do with the front wheel drive V6's they represent, but I > > can still image a big stink... Such is NASCAR. > > > > Tim > > > > >

>Why don't you either put me in your kill file, or simply stay out of threads >that I start? Because then he would automatically become part of the silent majority who obviously agree with everything you say.... -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:15:26 GMT, [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) wrote: Brett, I saw on one of the many shows this week (think it was on RPM2NITE) that a place in Indiana makes these "soft walls". I guess a few F1 tracks have already ordered and installed them for the upcoming season. These walls, when seen from a cross-sectional view, look like big radiators. they have 2 layers, one being rubber and the other some other material. On the inside they are shaped like radiator fins, and the walls come in sections which can be easily replaced after 3 major impacts take place. They are hard enough that there would not be the need for any clean up after a wreck, like with traditional foam soft walls. However, and this is exactly what they said on TV.........Traditional concrete walls only absorbs 5% of the energy before it reaches the drivers body. These new walls absorb 95% of the energy before it reaches the driver. 95%!!!!!!!!!!!!! According to RPM2NITE, it would cost $1.2 Mil. to fit a 1 1/2 mile track with these walls. They sound like something NASCAR needs to SERIOUSLY look into. And, those tight-assed track owners should foot the bill, especially with the way ticket prices go up on an annual basis. I think France and Helton could make it real easy for the track owners to decide...............No new walls, no races. Todd

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>Let's have some ideas, folks and stop thumping our chests and wringing >our hands over this. > >Regards, >Brett C. Cammack >brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet >(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 04:46:48 GMT, "Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You didn't seem to read his post. The "steel front clip" routes the engine >beneath the driver in a wreck...instead of the normal lack of routing which >sends the engine into the driver compartment if it goes anywhere. I re-read it, and got it that time. The first time I read that sentence I didn't get his meaning. Tim

David G Fisher wrote: > > It's a lost cause trying to talk sense to some here. The hard part is starting out with some sense in the first place, so, yes; for you it's definitely a lost cause. Why not give it up and find a relaxing hobby, like macram�? Just an idea... BB

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:14:35 -0800, Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm not sure I follow you on putting the engine below the driver, >since you're already sitting on bare aluminum 5 inches off the track. >I wonder about placing the engine behind the driver? Actually, it only goes there if the front end collapses. <g> I think Volvos used to tout that their front ends were designed so that the drivetrain would submarine the cockpit in a frontend collision instead of displacing straight back into it or simply staying in place and ruining the crumple zone characteristics. Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 06:48:47 -0800, Glockenspiel <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I saw on one of the many shows this week (think it was on RPM2NITE) >that a place in Indiana makes these "soft walls". I guess a few F1 >tracks have already ordered and installed them for the upcoming >season. These walls, when seen from a cross-sectional view, look like >big radiators. they have 2 layers, one being rubber and the other some >other material. On the inside they are shaped like radiator fins, and >the walls come in sections which can be easily replaced after 3 major >impacts take place.

Sounds like another good solution. It will be interesting to see how the track owners and NASCAR will respond when the major sponsors start twisting their arms about the loss of their valuable marketing merchandise. (i.e. drivers) Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

I had the same reaction...NASCAR cover-up. Much points to it. I recall initial reports saying there were no facial injuries, which NASCAR didn't dispute I expect because they needed to defend Earnharts use of an open face helmet. So the belts did their job. Now a subsequent NASCAR report of a failed lap belt. VERY suspicious when taken together with their previous responses to criticism of lack of safety development. Marty L_NiN0 wrote:

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> OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat belt to > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack of enforced > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all other accounts > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue - even > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaning they > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body to move > about the cockpit. > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth to shift > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybe they > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would not have > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy and NASCAR is > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm

Well I am betting the reason it was mentioned that seat belt broke is due to a Yahoo news shot of the interior of the car. The bent steering wheel and some other gory things kinda give it away that something hit the steering wheel hard. Dave Marty U'Ren <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > I had the same reaction...NASCAR cover-up. Much points to it. > > I recall initial reports saying there were no facial injuries, whichNASCAR > didn't dispute I expect because they > needed to defend Earnharts use of an open face helmet. So the belts didtheir > job. Now a subsequent NASCAR > report of a failed lap belt. VERY suspicious when taken together withtheir

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> previous responses to criticism > of lack of safety development. > > Marty > > > L_NiN0 wrote: > > > OK...I don't watch the X-Files but something here smells. > > > > 5 days after the accident and now NASCAR suddenly has this torn seat

belt to > > clear them of any wrong doing or responsibility for the lack ofenforced > > safety standards. Oddly though, the doctor's report and all otheraccounts > > until this point failed to mention anything to do with this issue -even > > though they where in the car and extracted his body from it meaningthey > > would have easily seen a seat belt damaged enough to cause his body tomove > > about the cockpit. > > > > And still, a damage lap belt doesn't explain the basalar skull fracture > > described in almost all of the doctors previous accounts. If something > > sickens you people it should be this blatent cover up of the truth toshift > > the blame away from them and their lack of saftey regulations. Maybethey > > were getting tired of hearing about the HANS device and why they don't > > implement it like CART and F1 - and see...they are right, it would nothave > > helped because he died due to a failed safety device. > > > > Before you flame me take a look at this and tell me I'm crazy andNASCAR is > > doing everything it can to protect it's drivers. > > > > http://www.thatsracin.com/00/0917/0915autopsies.htm > >