Simming and real life driving

Friends laugh when I say so, but I believe sim racing helps your day-to-day driving. The other day I was driving home from a friends place. I was in the outside lane of a reasonably busy (for my town) 2-lane each way road, which curves around a long, sweeping bend (I can't help but compare it to Curva Grande), with an Island down the centre, and to each side in the side street leading off it. As I was approaching the side street at driving speed (around 70km/h, the traffic speed there although the speed limit is actually 60km/h) a presumably blind woman in a 4WD pulled out in front of me. I literally had no time to think, and not alot of room to move. I managed to do a neat little manuevre whichavoided everything (4WD, kerb, island, various sign posts, and traffic), and did not even impede the traffic coming on or behind. Needless to say I stopped to inform the woman she needed her eyes looked at - or possibly her head - then sat in my car and thought to myslef "shit I can drive a car - all that simming pays off". OK, it seems a little silly. But I really do belive my reflexes and "driving instincts" have been sharpened by all the hours i've put in in front of various sims, the main suspects being N3, GP3 and GPL. I knew how to avoid lockup, and how important it was to do so. I knew how not to spin or slide out of control. I knew how to keep control and most of all, knew not to panic. And all without thinking. So, the lesson is, simming is good for you. DG

I too think that several times. I had a truck spin out in front of me on ice 2 months ago. I carefully manuevered&brake while watching the cars behind me(they all spun out too) and watching the truck in front of me wizz by me by inches on my left side. I was cool until it was over then freaked out. Then i too relized "Hey, I can drive this thang, thanks to GPL,N3...!!" We got it bad no???? PassedYa Disgruntled Goat wrote:

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> Friends laugh when I say so, but I believe sim racing helps your > day-to-day driving. > > The other day I was driving home from a friends place. I was in the > outside lane of a reasonably busy (for my town) 2-lane each way road, > which curves around a long, sweeping bend (I can't help but compare it > to Curva Grande), with an Island down the centre, and to each side in > the side street leading off it. As I was approaching the side street > at driving speed (around 70km/h, the traffic speed there although the > speed limit is actually 60km/h) a presumably blind woman in a 4WD > pulled out in front of me. I literally had no time to think, and not > alot of room to move. I managed to do a neat little manuevre > whichavoided everything (4WD, kerb, island, various sign posts, and > traffic), and did not even impede the traffic coming on or behind. > Needless to say I stopped to inform the woman she needed her eyes > looked at - or possibly her head - then sat in my car and thought to > myslef "shit I can drive a car - all that simming pays off". > > OK, it seems a little silly. But I really do belive my reflexes and > "driving instincts" have been sharpened by all the hours i've put in > in front of various sims, the main suspects being N3, GP3 and GPL. I > knew how to avoid lockup, and how important it was to do so. I knew > how not to spin or slide out of control. I knew how to keep control > and most of all, knew not to panic. And all without thinking. So, the > lesson is, simming is good for you. > > DG

Great more motorists on the road that think they can drive. "Disgruntled Goat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Friends laugh when I say so, but I believe sim racing helps your > day-to-day driving. > > The other day I was driving home from a friends place. I was in the > outside lane of a reasonably busy (for my town) 2-lane each way road, > which curves around a long, sweeping bend (I can't help but compare it > to Curva Grande), with an Island down the centre, and to each side in > the side street leading off it. As I was approaching the side street > at driving speed (around 70km/h, the traffic speed there although the > speed limit is actually 60km/h) a presumably blind woman in a 4WD > pulled out in front of me. I literally had no time to think, and not > alot of room to move. I managed to do a neat little manuevre > whichavoided everything (4WD, kerb, island, various sign posts, and > traffic), and did not even impede the traffic coming on or behind. > Needless to say I stopped to inform the woman she needed her eyes > looked at - or possibly her head - then sat in my car and thought to > myslef "shit I can drive a car - all that simming pays off". > > OK, it seems a little silly. But I really do belive my reflexes and > "driving instincts" have been sharpened by all the hours i've put in > in front of various sims, the main suspects being N3, GP3 and GPL. I > knew how to avoid lockup, and how important it was to do so. I knew > how not to spin or slide out of control. I knew how to keep control > and most of all, knew not to panic. And all without thinking. So, the > lesson is, simming is good for you. > > DG > >

When I first got Indy Car Racing, that was a sim that rewarded LATE braking. I mean REALLY late braking. I began to emulate that in city driving. Drove my family crazy. Then Nascar came along and that rewarded tail-gating(drafting) so my following distances began to shrink. Then when I tried to learn GPL, I had to become a very light braker, any thing other than a light pressure on the brake pedal of my lwff would lock up the brakes. And, you guessed it, I had a situation where I REALLY needed to stop fast...what did I do? Litely pressed the brake pedal with exactly the same pressure I used in GPL. Result? Damn near disasterous(sp?) Simming 'may' help some drivers...but my family will attest, it does NOT help me.... dave henrie "Disgruntled Goat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Friends laugh when I say so, but I believe sim racing helps your > day-to-day driving. >

Learning to toss a car around in Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' saved my butt on at least one occasion. Somebody pulled out of their driveway as I came around a blind corner at about 30 mph. I hit my '79 Firebird's brakes, which locked up the rears, slid sideways 90 degrees and stopped parallel to the other car, close enough to reach out and shake the driver's hand! Woohooo!! Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

Ayup. We do have it bad. Perhaps it's not so bad though. I wonder what we'd be doing if we didn't race. Or if our wives/girlfriends/significant others would approve. I've got a similar story as well. After watching a big heavy station wagon spin out in front of me in a snowstorm and observing a truck in a ditch along side the road, I was glad I learned how to do a proper stop in N1/2/99/3/4; ICR 1/2, GPL 1/3, DTR /DTR Sprints... BTW, my car at the time was a tiny Geo Metro. I did freak out once I got home. nascarob wrote:

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> I too think that several times. I had a truck spin out in front of me on > ice 2 months ago. I carefully manuevered&brake while watching the cars > behind me(they all spun out too) and watching the truck in front of me > wizz by me by inches on my left side. I was cool until it was over then > freaked out. Then i too relized > "Hey, I can drive this thang, thanks to GPL,N3...!!" > > We got it bad no???? > > PassedYa > > Disgruntled Goat wrote: > > > Friends laugh when I say so, but I believe sim racing helps your > > day-to-day driving. > > > > The other day I was driving home from a friends place. I was in the > > outside lane of a reasonably busy (for my town) 2-lane each way road, > > which curves around a long, sweeping bend (I can't help but compare it > > to Curva Grande), with an Island down the centre, and to each side in > > the side street leading off it. As I was approaching the side street > > at driving speed (around 70km/h, the traffic speed there although the > > speed limit is actually 60km/h) a presumably blind woman in a 4WD > > pulled out in front of me. I literally had no time to think, and not > > alot of room to move. I managed to do a neat little manuevre > > whichavoided everything (4WD, kerb, island, various sign posts, and > > traffic), and did not even impede the traffic coming on or behind. > > Needless to say I stopped to inform the woman she needed her eyes > > looked at - or possibly her head - then sat in my car and thought to > > myslef "shit I can drive a car - all that simming pays off". > > > > OK, it seems a little silly. But I really do belive my reflexes and > > "driving instincts" have been sharpened by all the hours i've put in > > in front of various sims, the main suspects being N3, GP3 and GPL. I > > knew how to avoid lockup, and how important it was to do so. I knew > > how not to spin or slide out of control. I knew how to keep control > > and most of all, knew not to panic. And all without thinking. So, the > > lesson is, simming is good for you. > > > > DG

Mike Donnelly Jr wrote: > I've got a similar story as well. After watching a big heavy station wagon > spin out in front of me in a snowstorm and observing a truck in a ditch > along side the road, I was glad I learned how to do a proper stop in > N1/2/99/3/4; ICR 1/2, GPL 1/3, DTR /DTR Sprints... But before entering the car think of your clutch-pedal! This happened, when I got ICR, bought my Thrustmaster (only brake and gas-pedal) and stepped into my real-life car after a long session: I had to do a stop. I stepped on the brake and thought: "Geesh... what do the brakes do, there is literally no decrease in speed... Geesh... this is not your virtual indycar-cockpit, where you flat out your left foot and lift your right. You just stepped on the clutch, moron." Thank god I had enough time to do the braking properly, when I realised this. I missed the car in front by centimetres. gruss h. -- ++++crypto cocaine weapon terrorism depleted Uranium Bush hack++++ | Welcome ENFOPOL, NSA, Gestapo or whoever thinx I�m | | a superevil, criminal, terrorist-leading druglord! | ++++Anthrax Ebola Pu LSD Speed C4 TNT Amphetamine Porn GDubya ++++

There is no reason that skills obtained from sim-racing should trasfer to public roads. Thats all I have to say. Anything other is breaking the law.

On 04 Mar 2001 17:20:42 GMT, [email hidden] (J. Todd Wasson) wrote: > Learning to toss a car around in Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' saved my butt >on at least one occasion. Somebody pulled out of their driveway as I came >around a blind corner at about 30 mph. I hit my '79 Firebird's brakes, which >locked up the rears, slid sideways 90 degrees and stopped parallel to the other >car, close enough to reach out and shake the driver's hand! Woohooo!! Cool! :) I had a singular experience a few weeks ago, when it was raining and I was taking a familiar turn a little too fast again. This time I had my first real oversteering experience in a FWD car. :) Unfortunately, 2 cars were parked to the right of the lefthanded turn. I had to let the oversteer continue a little to avoid hitting the first by countering too soon, then I had to smoothly countersteer and not overdo it, otherwise I would have hit the second. Both their lights were on, I imagine they might have had a good scare, hehe. But wonderfully without a panic I managed to keep the car ending up straight and actually loved the feeling. :)) Ok, nobody call the nut house with this message in hand, please. Still, I'd rather do these things in karts or in sims. :) Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 22:08:48 -0000, "Pops" <[email hidden]> wrote: >There is no reason that skills obtained from sim-racing should trasfer to >public roads. Thats all I have to say. Anything other is breaking the law. > > Seems a few people have confused what I said. I didn't say "I drive flat out around town like i'm in a race". I said, that I believe I have a better feel for how to react in an emergency because of what I have learned from simming. This may or may not be the case, but I think there is something in it. Of course, as someone pointed out, if you get too into it, you may forget you are in real traffic - which is definately not good. DG

In article <97ueh8$1dc$[email hidden]>, "Pops" <[email hidden]> writes: >There is no reason that skills obtained from sim-racing should trasfer to >public roads. Thats all I have to say. Anything other is breaking the law. > Car control is illegal?!? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 19:35:19 +0100, Harald Blahovec <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Mike Donnelly Jr wrote: > >> I've got a similar story as well. After watching a big heavy station wagon >> spin out in front of me in a snowstorm and observing a truck in a ditch >> along side the road, I was glad I learned how to do a proper stop in >> N1/2/99/3/4; ICR 1/2, GPL 1/3, DTR /DTR Sprints... > >But before entering the car think of your clutch-pedal! >This happened, when I got ICR, bought my Thrustmaster (only brake and >gas-pedal) and stepped into my real-life car after a long session: >I had to do a stop. I stepped on the brake and thought: "Geesh... what >do the brakes do, there is literally no decrease in speed... Geesh... >this is not your virtual indycar-cockpit, where you flat out your left >foot and lift your right. You just stepped on the clutch, moron." Thank >god I had enough time to do the braking properly, when I realised this. >I missed the car in front by centimetres.

This is EXACTLY why I don't use left-foot braking in sims. <G> FWIW, I found that I do still have similar problems to what you described, though -- even though I always manage to hit the brake in panic situations, I discovered that I now forget to hit the CLUTCH -- about 6 months ago a couple of big trucks were stopped dead in the fast lane as I came up on them around a bend in the highway doing about 60 mph. I jammed the brakes on, left two LONG straight black streaks behind me, and came to to a nice, straight, smooth, controlled stop, coming to rest in a NASCAR 4-type cloud of tire smoke, watching my rear-view mirror and the road in front of me to make sure I would stop clear of the trucks and not get rear-ended in my tiny little Honda Del Sol. When I came to rest, I discovered that my left foot was planted solid on the dead-pedal, and the engine was dead because I forgot to clutch. Doh! ;-) -- JB F1CS2K Rank Handicap 57.896 http://f1cs2krank.dhs.org/

When I used to have my driving lessons, I was constantly criticized for braking too late and too hard and taking off from stop signs "like a rocket." To which I replied " Nah, I can go at least another 20 metres deeper." (His face was a picture). Now, where to I get these bad habits from? Chris PS: It was a Ford Fiesta Diesel. Handled like a bag of shit (bloody front wheel drive...) -- -------------------------------------------------- http://www.the.saints.btinternet.co.uk Ruud van Gaal <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... | On 04 Mar 2001 17:20:42 GMT, [email hidden] (J. Todd Wasson) wrote: | | > Learning to toss a car around in Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin' saved my butt | >on at least one occasion. Somebody pulled out of their driveway as I came | >around a blind corner at about 30 mph. I hit my '79 Firebird's brakes, which | >locked up the rears, slid sideways 90 degrees and stopped parallel to the other | >car, close enough to reach out and shake the driver's hand! Woohooo!! | | Cool! :) | I had a singular experience a few weeks ago, when it was raining and I | was taking a familiar turn a little too fast again. This time I had my | first real oversteering experience in a FWD car. :) Unfortunately, 2 | cars were parked to the right of the lefthanded turn. I had to let the | oversteer continue a little to avoid hitting the first by countering | too soon, then I had to smoothly countersteer and not overdo it, | otherwise I would have hit the second. Both their lights were on, I | imagine they might have had a good scare, hehe. But wonderfully | without a panic I managed to keep the car ending up straight and | actually loved the feeling. :)) | Ok, nobody call the nut house with this message in hand, please. | | Still, I'd rather do these things in karts or in sims. :) | | | Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 | Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ | Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

>This time I had my >first real oversteering experience in a FWD car. :) Unfortunately, 2 >cars were parked to the right of the lefthanded turn. I had to let the >oversteer continue a little to avoid hitting the first by countering >too soon, then I had to smoothly countersteer and not overdo it, >otherwise I would have hit the second. Quite fun isn't it? lol I only slid an FWD car accidentally once, at about 17-18 years of age. Going too fast with a load of friends. I wasn't expecting it to happen, but managed to catch the slide. Happens fast when you aren't ready for it!! Then there's the time my buddy and me in his '71 Firebird..... 120 mph..... 3 spins on the freeway.... Oops! Not related to sim driving, but I think if he'd have played Hard Drivin' a bit more we might have stayed straight :0) All in all though, I agree that some sims can really help with accident avoidance (rather than the foolish street racing and screwing around we did). It's good to know how a car drives at the limit, know what to expect, and how to react. >But wonderfully >without a panic I managed to keep the car ending up straight and >actually loved the feeling. :)) >Ok, nobody call the nut house with this message in hand, please. Too late.. I'll probably be your bunkmate ;-) Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

On 05 Mar 2001 04:57:07 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Car control is illegal?!? Didn't you know these things are really just appliances like your toaster or telephone? You are suppose to simply operate them, not enjoy them, excel at handling them, etc. Then you can blend right in with the other 99% of the drivers who slide into wrecks (sorry, but the term "accident" is b.s. it's usually somebody's error that precipitated things. the term abrogates responsibility) with their eyes closed and their foot smashed to the floorboard on the brake pedal. ("I just couldn't stop in time!" "Did you consider steering into one of the three open lanes to your left and just avoiding him?" "Huh?") Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

I've only been driving about 3 months now with my driver's permit still, I don't even have my license yet, so I THANKFULLY haven't run into any real trouble yet. The worst I've had is someone pulling out right in front of me, requiring some very quick braking. That and when my driving instructor wanted me to spin the rear tires and try to go straight in heavy snow and ice. :) ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrash.00game.com

LOL ;-) How true. Jan. =--- Brett C. Cammack wrote... > <snip> > Didn't you know these things are really just appliances > like your toaster or telephone? <snip>

What makes you think they can't and you can? Jan. =--- jaf wrote... > Great more motorists on the road that think they > can drive. > > <snip> >

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:14:14 +0100, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>What makes you think they can't and you can? > >Jan. >=--- >jaf wrote... >> Great more motorists on the road that think they >> can drive. >> >> <snip> >> > >

Personally - and I started this thread - I know I can drive, but I am even more aware of the fact that alot of people can't. As such, I am careful, responsible, and do NOT drive around like i'm racing. Some people seem to think that, because I feel simming sharpens your reflexes and "feel" for a car, that I act like a moron behind the wheel. I thought I made all this fairly clear in my original post, but again to reiterate - I believe that spending alot of time driving decent racing sims has made me more aware of how to react to an emergency situation while driving a road car. Nothing to do with driving technique, nothing to do with getting to and from work in "record time" - just being able to keep the car under control when, without the "training" sims provide, I could well have ended up swerving across the road into traffic, or locking the brakes and sliding into someones living room, or whatever else. I was hoping to promote a bit of discussion about this, and was hoping someone might be able to relate similar experinces, or even better experience with road car simulations - I think such a thing would be a great idea in schools and such. Granted, some people did - but I also got pinned as an irresponsible driver, when I most definately am not - thats another thing i've learned from simming, BTW, Accidents can happen to anyone. DG

[email hidden] (Disgruntled Goat) writes:

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> > Personally - and I started this thread - I know I can drive, but I am > even more aware of the fact that alot of people can't. As such, I am > careful, responsible, and do NOT drive around like i'm racing. Some > people seem to think that, because I feel simming sharpens your > reflexes and "feel" for a car, that I act like a moron behind the > wheel. > > I thought I made all this fairly clear in my original post, but again > to reiterate - I believe that spending alot of time driving decent > racing sims has made me more aware of how to react to an emergency > situation while driving a road car. Nothing to do with driving > technique, nothing to do with getting to and from work in "record > time" - just being able to keep the car under control when, without > the "training" sims provide, I could well have ended up swerving > across the road into traffic, or locking the brakes and sliding into > someones living room, or whatever else.

Agreed. There are too many drivers, specially young males, who think they are so good at driving, just because they can put the throttle to the floor and drive fast. It's not about that at all. A good driver is one who can drive for A to B with minimum risk, smooth and comfortable for the passengers and still goes with the traffic flow. But at the same time good reflexes and knowing what to do in a critical situation is essential. I remember last year I was driving back from the ski resort, the back end of the front wheel drive Golf got loose which is a pretty scary thing. I think I saved the car with a little opposite lock and neutral trottle, and it wasn't until afterwards when I started to think about what really happened I got scared. > I was hoping to promote a bit of discussion about this, and was hoping > someone might be able to relate similar experinces, or even better > experience with road car simulations - I think such a thing would be a > great idea in schools and such. Here at work we hope to be able to do some research on that matter in the coming months. A driver behaviour researcher here is totally into driving games, and he promotes the idea that simming or even arcade gaming on a playstation helps building the right reflexes. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

On 06 Mar 2001 13:26:23 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote:

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>[email hidden] (Disgruntled Goat) writes: >> >> I thought I made all this fairly clear in my original post, but again >> to reiterate - I believe that spending alot of time driving decent >> racing sims has made me more aware of how to react to an emergency >> situation while driving a road car. Nothing to do with driving >> technique, nothing to do with getting to and from work in "record >> time" - just being able to keep the car under control when, without >> the "training" sims provide, I could well have ended up swerving >> across the road into traffic, or locking the brakes and sliding into >> someones living room, or whatever else. > >Agreed. There are too many drivers, specially young males, who think >they are so good at driving, just because they can put the throttle to >the floor and drive fast. It's not about that at all. A good driver is >one who can drive for A to B with minimum risk, smooth and comfortable >for the passengers and still goes with the traffic flow. But at the >same time good reflexes and knowing what to do in a critical >situation is essential. I remember last year I was driving back from >the ski resort, the back end of the front wheel drive Golf got loose >which is a pretty scary thing. I think I saved the car with a little >opposite lock and neutral trottle, and it wasn't until afterwards when >I started to think about what really happened I got scared. >

Yep. The incident that led to my original post was the same - i got home before I turned white. I was only a few hundred metres from home, granted, but at the time I wasn't even shaken. A little angry, but the only reason I yelled at the idiot who pulled out in front of me was to make them remember it, and hopefully take a bit more care in the future (I ended up shaking her hand and telling her to take care - i'm really a softie at heart). But still, I wasn't suffering from the stress you might expect. When I got home though, and had time to reflect, I realised I coulda died. I don't know if this is down to simming either - when in a race, you focus on getting to the finish. Once you finish, you have time to reflect. Maybe this is a habit I picked up racing, not realising how much I am sliding around, or how loose i'm getting, forgetting all the little racing incidents until the race is done, being "in the zone". I'm also not necessarilly sure this is all good, although it does help you focus, rather than lose concentration every time something nearly goes wrong - which when you think about it, can be quite alot in city traffic.

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>> I was hoping to promote a bit of discussion about this, and was hoping >> someone might be able to relate similar experinces, or even better >> experience with road car simulations - I think such a thing would be a >> great idea in schools and such. > >Here at work we hope to be able to do some research on that matter in >the coming months. A driver behaviour researcher here is totally into >driving games, and he promotes the idea that simming or even arcade >gaming on a playstation helps building the right reflexes. >

Cool. Vindication :-) Seriously I think it is something well worth looking into - surely the technology exists to make a very realistic simulation of real-world driving. It's just that racing sims sell better. If schools and governments could show some interest, though, i'm sure some of the creators of the more realistic racing sims would be among those to put their hand up for a contract. One concern I have with "learning from a racing sim", is that while the reflexes and feel can be improved, it would almost certainly also teach bad habits - attempting to slipstream highway traffic is not a good idea, for example - especially to inexperienced drivers without experience in traffic to temper any racing instinct they develop. That's why I like the traffic school simulator idea. DG

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) writes:

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>On 05 Mar 2001 04:57:07 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >>Car control is illegal?!? > >Didn't you know these things are really just appliances like your >toaster or telephone? You are suppose to simply operate them, not >enjoy them, excel at handling them, etc. Then you can blend right in >with the other 99% of the drivers who slide into wrecks (sorry, but >the term "accident" is b.s. it's usually somebody's error that >precipitated things. the term abrogates responsibility) with their >eyes closed and their foot smashed to the floorboard on the brake >pedal. ("I just couldn't stop in time!" "Did you consider steering >into one of the three open lanes to your left and just avoiding him?" >"Huh?")

And I feel sorry for the 'innocents' in a multi-car pileup. You know that just ONE idiot screwed up, and collected everyone else. Someone had a sig at one time: Getting hit by a meteor is an accident. Everything else is driver error... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 02:26:01 GMT, [email hidden] (Brett C. Cammack) wrote: >On 05 Mar 2001 04:57:07 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >>Car control is illegal?!? >... >pedal. ("I just couldn't stop in time!" "Did you consider steering >into one of the three open lanes to your left and just avoiding him?" >"Huh?") Hehe, yes, we learn to brake harder by braking less hard. :) Esp. when you've entered a braking torque curve you see the good in that, and ofcourse if you know how ABS works. I recognize something in the 'three open lanes' thing; I once saved myself from getting a bit crowded in a suddenly stopping lane by actually getting OFF the brakes so I regained more steering control so I could quickly switch to a different lane (different *direction* more lol). All teached from GPL; getting weight back on the front wheels for more steering traction. Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

No offence Mr. Goat (for want of a better salutation), but I agree 100% with your post. I was attempting to challenge the view of Mr. Jaf, not yours. Like you say, knowing you can do something if you have to is being able to say to yourself, "yup, I handled that situation correctly." And when do you handle a situation correctly? when you know from experience how to act in that given situation. This is where the validity of the sim comes in. All the worlds airlines and all the worlds airforces wouldn't spend mega bucks training pilots for emergencies in simulators if they didn't think it would pay off in real life. And some of those I've seen I'd call less than immersive at that. When I listen to people talk about accidents "I was totally unprepared for.." and "I didn't expect him/her/the car to..." are frequently used sentences. For people driving sims "the unexpected" has more than likely already happened more than once. They are prepared. Is a simmer automatically a traffic rodeo rider? -No, personally I'm earmarked as the most "boring" driver in my immediate family and circle of friends. Makes me wonder why I'm always selected as the designated driver for going out and family reunions.<g> I think it was Jaques Villeneuve who said "you don't realise how fast you're going until you come unstuck". I bear that in mind at all times. I'm sure most roads can be driven far faster than the speed limit allows, it's just the consequences build up in case it gets away from you or something unexpected happens. Jan. =--- Disgruntled Goat wrote... > <snip> > Personally - and I started this thread - I know I > can drive, <snip>

On 06 Mar 2001 03:06:06 GMT, [email hidden] (Dan Belcher) wrote:

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>I've only been driving about 3 months now with my driver's permit still, I >don't even have my license yet, so I THANKFULLY haven't run into any real >trouble yet. The worst I've had is someone pulling out right in front of me, >requiring some very quick braking. That and when my driving instructor wanted >me to spin the rear tires and try to go straight in heavy snow and ice. :) > >----------------------------------------- >Dan Belcher >Team Racing Unlimited >http://simcrash.00game.com

I find that simming does help with real world driving.. as ong as you remember which is which. :) I once flipped my car because I zoned out and thought I was playing Need For Speed. :) (I'm not kidding) RB

In article <[email hidden]>, Razorback <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >I find that simming does help with real world driving.. as ong as you >remember which is which. :) > >I once flipped my car because I zoned out and thought I was playing >Need For Speed. :) (I'm not kidding) >

Whoa... Did you just take a turn too fast, without braking? I take it no one got hurt because you put a smiley on the end... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

If the games helped teach you to pay attention while driving, I would guess they helped plenty. I feel strongly that you should be cursing your inattentiveness instead of praising your reaction. You need to be asking yourself if you couldn't have avoided the nonincident altogether through some action you might have taken. An honest appraisal needs to conclude yes, even if the only reasonable alternative was to hone your psychic abilities starting a year before. (Go hone your mind reading skills, then; you're already a year behind. Your goal is to be aware of all the activity around you, where each car is, and where it's going to be three seconds from now.) Mike. "Disgruntled Goat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The other day I was driving home from a friends place. I was in the > outside lane of a reasonably busy (for my town) 2-lane each way road, > which curves around a long, sweeping bend (I can't help but compare it > to Curva Grande), with an Island down the centre, and to each side in > the side street leading off it. As I was approaching the side street > at driving speed (around 70km/h, the traffic speed there although the > speed limit is actually 60km/h) a presumably blind woman in a 4WD > pulled out in front of me. I literally had no time to think, and not > alot of room to move. I managed to do a neat little manuevre > whichavoided everything (4WD, kerb, island, various sign posts, and > traffic), and did not even impede the traffic coming on or behind. > Needless to say I stopped to inform the woman she needed her eyes > looked at - or possibly her head - then sat in my car and thought to > myslef "shit I can drive a car - all that simming pays off".

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:13:40 -0600, "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>If the games helped teach you to pay attention while driving, I would guess >they helped plenty. > >I feel strongly that you should be cursing your inattentiveness instead of >praising your reaction. You need to be asking yourself if you couldn't have >avoided the nonincident altogether through some action you might have taken. >An honest appraisal needs to conclude yes, even if the only reasonable >alternative was to hone your psychic abilities starting a year before. (Go >hone your mind reading skills, then; you're already a year behind. Your goal >is to be aware of all the activity around you, where each car is, and where >it's going to be three seconds from now.) >

Ah but see, I DID see the 4WD there, and that is part of the reason I was able to avoid it. I didn't expect it to move, but I was prepared for it to do so. Again, I think simming plays a part, though possibly not as much of a part as it does in developing reflexes. In simming, you have to know where competitors are and try to guess what they are going to do - same on the street, only they aren't competitors there. DG