Teresa Earnhardt v Orlando Sentinel

I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsy photo battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law dictates that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes Dale Earnhardt's autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, a judge in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsy photos on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contending that the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death. The reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactly killed Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They have given Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published. This "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference where she made the below statement. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your voices be heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, both of whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue shortly. Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing the publication of autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also contact Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this unfortunate situation." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below is a link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make Dale Earnhardt's autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that you would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However small, the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part of his story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. However strong and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One of the things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her fight just that much harder. Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm EST Sunday Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight over the photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the link is good for but here it is. http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the link no longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on the battle. Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainly be on the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: http://orlandosentinel.com/ So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov) or others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If you know what they are please do the same.

Found: As previously requested; if you choose to contact any or all of these please refrain from using any language you would not use in front of Teresa Ernhardt. Email you write will be part of the public record and so just might become public knowledge. However strongly you may feel about what is going on in Florida using language that would shame Dale Ernhardt's widow will not help the situation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Jeb Bush, Govonor of Florida: Email address [email hidden] Write or e-mail: Governor Jeb Bush The Capitol Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001 Telephone: 850/488-4441 Fax: 850/487-0801 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- John McKay, President of the Florida State Senate Email address: [email hidden] Capitol Offices: Office of the Senate President Suite 409, The Capitol 404 South Monroe Street Tallahassee 32399-1100 (850) 487-5229 SunCom 277-5229 Room 320 Senate Office Building 404 South Monroe Street Tallahassee, FL 32399-1100 (850) 487-5078 SunCom 277-5078 Legislative Assistant: Jacquie Connell District Office: Wildewood Professional Park Suite 90 3653 Cortez Road West Bradenton, FL 34210 (941) 727-6349 SunCom 516-4153 Fax (941) 727-6352 Fax SunCom 516-4008 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Tom Feeney, Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives Email address: [email hidden] Capitol Office: Room 420 The Capitol, 402 S. Monroe St., Tallahassee, FL 32399-1300 Phone (850)488-1450 District Office: P.O. Box 622109 Oviedo, FL 32762-2109 (407)977-6500 SUNCOM: 392-6500

On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:27:37 GMT, "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote: While I certainly don't want the autopsy pictures made public, I don't want to see them kept private by government fiat. The first amendment makes those pictures legal to publish, and we must respect that, I only hope that the paper does the DECENT thing and respects both the memory of Dale and Teresa's wishes in this matter and chooses not to publish them on their own. =^..^=

I don't see anyplace in here where it says the paper can publish Earnhardt's autopsy photos. If the Orlando paper has a picture, they may be free to publish it, but nothing here says the state has to give them the picture. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." It's amazing how, over the years, this simple and easy to understand sentence has been twisted to mean so many things (not by Black Cat, just in general). Let's face it, the paper is only looking for an angle to sell a few more copies. The Orlando Sentinel is not an expert on racing safety and I seriously doubt that their medical experts are any better than the ones provided by the State of Florida or Nascar. I don't feel anybody's First Amendment rights would be violated by not turning the pictures over to the newspaper, but the privacy rights of the Earnhardt family might be. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:27:37 GMT, "Joe L." <[email hidden]> > wrote: > While I certainly don't want the autopsy pictures made public, I don't > want to see them kept private by government fiat. The first amendment > makes those pictures legal to publish, and we must respect that, I > only hope that the paper does the DECENT thing and respects both the > memory of Dale and Teresa's wishes in this matter and chooses not to > publish them on their own. > > =^..^=

GTX_SlotCar wrote:

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> > I don't see anyplace in here where it says the paper can publish Earnhardt's > autopsy photos. If the Orlando paper has a picture, they may be free to > publish it, but nothing here says the state has to give them the picture. > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > or of the press

On those few words -- "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press", any lawyer can make a case that anyone can publish anything. Why else would we have the Star or the National Enquirer? The whole thing is a cheesy sham, cooked up to sell more copies of the Orlando Senile -- I can just about guaran-damn-tee their website's message board has had more traffic in the last 24 hours than it has in its entire miserable existence -- even when they had the bogus election down thar. Their banner advertisers must be lovin' it -- though I wouldn't be surprised to see a boycott of the rag and its advertisers if they keep pushing this thing. This, too, shall blow over...

I believe it is a state 'sunshine' law that applies to this case. What would NOT be releasable in some states IS in Florida. and they are not so much worried that the Paper would publish them, but that the photos would get spread around via the internet. dave henrie "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SDGo6.4434$[email hidden]... > I don't see anyplace in here where it says the paper can publishEarnhardt's

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> autopsy photos. If the Orlando paper has a picture, they may be free to > publish it, but nothing here says the state has to give them the picture. > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > It's amazing how, over the years, this simple and easy to understand > sentence has been twisted to mean so many things (not by Black Cat, just

in

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> general). > > Let's face it, the paper is only looking for an angle to sell a few more > copies. The Orlando Sentinel is not an expert on racing safety and I > seriously doubt that their medical experts are any better than the ones > provided by the State of Florida or Nascar. > > I don't feel anybody's First Amendment rights would be violated by not > turning the pictures over to the newspaper, but the privacy rights of the > Earnhardt family might be. > > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > > > "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:27:37 GMT, "Joe L." <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > While I certainly don't want the autopsy pictures made public, I don't > > want to see them kept private by government fiat. The first amendment > > makes those pictures legal to publish, and we must respect that, I > > only hope that the paper does the DECENT thing and respects both the > > memory of Dale and Teresa's wishes in this matter and chooses not to > > publish them on their own. > > > > =^..^= > >

If the Orlando Sentinel has access to autopsy reports from any other death in florida than they damn well better have access to Dale Earnhardt's autopsy. Dale Earnhardt was nothing more than another citizen of this country. You want to do something about this law? Work to change it, but not because some damn racer died. Change it because it could be offensive to ALL who die in Florida. "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0ZDo6.15105$%[email hidden]... > I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsyphoto > battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law dictates > that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record > (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes DaleEarnhardt's > autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, ajudge > in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsy photos > on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contendingthat > the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death. The > reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their > medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactlykilled > Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They have given > Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published.This > "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference where she > made the below statement. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your voices be > heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of the Florida > House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, both of > whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue shortly. > Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing the publication of > autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also contact > Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we > encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this > unfortunate situation." > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------------------------- > If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below is a > link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the > Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: > "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make Dale Earnhardt's > autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." > > http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard > > Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that you > would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However small, > the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part of his > story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. However strong > and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to > express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One of the > things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her fight > just that much harder. > > Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm EST Sunday > Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight over the > photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the link is good > for but here it is. > > http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te > resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines > > If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the link no > longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on the battle. > Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainly be on > the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: > > http://orlandosentinel.com/ > > So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov) or > others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If you know > what they are please do the same. > >

Excellent point Andrew. I totall agree. Maybe it sounds heartless, but the law is the law and just because someone is a "celebrity" doesn't mean that the law should apply to everyone but them. Todd Walker "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sSNo6.279$[email hidden]...

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> If the Orlando Sentinel has access to autopsy reports from any other death > in florida than they damn well better have access to Dale Earnhardt's > autopsy. Dale Earnhardt was nothing more than another citizen of this > country. You want to do something about this law? Work to change it, but > not because some damn racer died. Change it because it could be offensive > to ALL who die in Florida. > > "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0ZDo6.15105$%[email hidden]... > > I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsy > photo > > battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law

dictates > > that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record > > (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes Dale > Earnhardt's > > autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, a > judge > > in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsyphotos > > on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contending > that > > the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death.The > > reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their > > medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactly > killed > > Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They havegiven > > Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published. > This > > "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference whereshe > > made the below statement. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ----------------------------- > > "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your voicesbe > > heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of the Florida > > House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, bothof > > whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue > shortly. > > Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing thepublication

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> of > > autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also contact > > Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we > > encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this > > unfortunate situation." > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ----------------------------- > > If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below is

a

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> > link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the > > Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: > > "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make Dale Earnhardt's > > autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." > > > > http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard > > > > Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that

you > > would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However > small, > > the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part of > his > > story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. Howeverstrong > > and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to > > express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One ofthe > > things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her fight > > just that much harder. > > > > Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm ESTSunday

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> > Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight over the > > photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the link is > good > > for but here it is. > > > > >

http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te > > resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines > > > > If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the link no > > longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on thebattle. > > Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainly beon > > the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: > > > > http://orlandosentinel.com/ > > > > So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov)or > > others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If youknow > > what they are please do the same. > > > > > >

But the trouble is celebrities get media attention whereas regular people do not. Therefore, there's always the question of exploitation. "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8qOo6.21456$[email hidden]...

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> Excellent point Andrew. I totall agree. Maybe it sounds heartless, but the > law is the law and just because someone is a "celebrity" doesn't mean that > the law should apply to everyone but them. > > Todd Walker > > > "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sSNo6.279$[email hidden]... > > If the Orlando Sentinel has access to autopsy reports from any other

death > > in florida than they damn well better have access to Dale Earnhardt's > > autopsy. Dale Earnhardt was nothing more than another citizen of this > > country. You want to do something about this law? Work to change it,but > > not because some damn racer died. Change it because it could beoffensive

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> > to ALL who die in Florida. > > > > "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:0ZDo6.15105$%[email hidden]... > > > I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsy > > photo > > > battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law > dictates > > > that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record > > > (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes Dale > > Earnhardt's > > > autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, a > > judge > > > in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsy > photos > > > on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contending > > that > > > the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death. > The > > > reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their > > > medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactly > > killed > > > Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They have > given > > > Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published. > > This > > > "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference where > she > > > made the below statement. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > ----------------------------- > > > "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your

voices > be > > > heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of theFlorida

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> > > House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, both > of > > > whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue > > shortly. > > > Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing the > publication > > of > > > autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also

contact

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> > > Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we > > > encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this > > > unfortunate situation." > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > ----------------------------- > > > If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below

is > a > > > link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the > > > Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: > > > "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make DaleEarnhardt's

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> > > autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." > > > > > > http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard > > > > > > Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that > you > > > would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However > > small, > > > the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part

of

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> > his > > > story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. However > strong > > > and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to > > > express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One of > the > > > things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her

fight > > > just that much harder. > > > > > > Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm EST > Sunday > > > Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight overthe > > > photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the linkis > > good > > > for but here it is. > > > > > > > > >http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te > > > resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines > > > > > > If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the linkno > > > longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on the > battle. > > > Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainlybe

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> on > > > the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: > > > > > > http://orlandosentinel.com/ > > > > > > So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov) > or > > > others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If you > know > > > what they are please do the same. > > > > > > > > > > > >

"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SDGo6.4434$[email hidden]... > I don't see anyplace in here where it says the paper can publishEarnhardt's

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> autopsy photos. If the Orlando paper has a picture, they may be free to > publish it, but nothing here says the state has to give them the picture. > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > It's amazing how, over the years, this simple and easy to understand > sentence has been twisted to mean so many things (not by Black Cat, just

in

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> general). > > Let's face it, the paper is only looking for an angle to sell a few more > copies. The Orlando Sentinel is not an expert on racing safety and I > seriously doubt that their medical experts are any better than the ones > provided by the State of Florida or Nascar. > > I don't feel anybody's First Amendment rights would be violated by not > turning the pictures over to the newspaper, but the privacy rights of the > Earnhardt family might be. > > > -- > Slot

You will find it not in the federal constitution, but in Florida state law. If you read the original post you would know that under Florida law autopsy reports and all supporting documents are public. There are actually some compeling legal reasons why this should be so. NOW the first ammendment gives the right to publish. While I don't want to see such pictures published personally, I'm leary of the idea that we should set up special " elite" classes of people for whom public law does not apply, for any reason. Publishing the pictures, as well as the subsequent purchase of the pictures, would be in extremely bad taste. Bad taste is NOT a crime. Violating existing public law to restrict *public* information from being accesed WOULD be a crime. My heart bears no heavy weight for Dale E. He is beyond any care of mine or yours. My heart is heavy for the thoughts of the pain his family is going through right now. Teresa is the greatest victim in this affair. She has lost her best friend, lifelong companion, business partner, lover and husband all in one shot, and believe me, I know EXACTLY what that feels like. HOWEVER, autopsy reports being public record DO fill the function that the paper has stated they wish to access the records for, independant public confirmation of facts of record. This prevents orginizations such as NASCAR or the government from 'misstating' the cause of death for internal reasons, such as PR or attempting to avoid litigation. KFG

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:22Po6.341616$[email hidden]... > But the trouble is celebrities get media attention whereas regular peopledo > not. Therefore, there's always the question of exploitation. Celebrities exploit their image to make money. Dale Earnhardt Racing Clocks, Dale Earnhardt on the front of Coke Machines, etc... When is exploitation good and when is it bad? Is ESPN Classic's tribute to Dale Earnhardt exploitation? Is SI's special Dale Earnhardt issue exploitation? Is the Atlanta Journal and Constitutions special Dale Earhnardt section exploitation? All are done to make money for someone. Why wasn't a fuss raised about those things? Televising the Dale Earnhardt funeral, sure seems like exploitation to me.

Threats to the privacy of an individual or family are usually in direct proportion to the notoriety of that individual or family or how much they depart from the ordinary. No one is really all that interested in the average schmuck but celebrities are chased constantly by snoops, voyeurs and paparazzi trying to get something "unusual" or "dirty" or "embarrassing" on or about whatever target they are chasing at the time. As a general rule the more famous the celebrity target and the more this celebrity wants this "something" to stay private the more valuable that "something" becomes to whoever can get it. But being famous is not the only qualification for being a target of a voyeur. People who are completely ordinary and unknown but died in an unusual way that would make a picture of the corpse more "interesting" and "attractive" than the run of the mill dead body are also targets. Things like, say, a guy that was run over by a train and sliced in three or perhaps a child who was killed and partially eaten by a family pet gone wild. Who any of these people were is irrelevant, it is only the fact of the unusual way they died and the vividness of the photograph that adds entertainment value. In the Dale Earnhardt autopsy photos we have both a famous person, and an unusual way of death. As an added bonus, the body of the husband, father and hero to thousands will be nearly naked and feature the surgical cuts and organ exposure made by the medical examiner during the autopsy. Nearly every desire of the sick and perverted will be contained in those photos. The threat to the privacy of the Earnhardt family is vast because the combination of all of these factors concentrated in a single set of photos make the potential customer base HUGE!!!! Exercise your imagination for a moment. Let us mentally construct two web sites. One site contains just the Earnhardt autopsy photos, the other site contains all the other autopsy photos on record. Set a hit counter on each site. If you like you may put a $5 charge on the Earnhardt site and leave the other free. Now, go away and come back in a week. Compare the hit counters. Is there anyone here who requires an explanation of the likely outcome? That difference in the hit counters is a measure of the difference between the threat to the Earnhardt family's privacy and the threat to everyone else's. Given the huge difference in threat levels any idea that the Earnhardts should be treated "like everyone else" is ridiculous. "Everyone else" is not being attacked, the Earnhardts ARE. But let us pretend for the moment that true justice demands that the Earnhardts get no more protection than others. What happens then? As I understand it, Florida law makes available any autopsy done on anyone **unless** there is good reason not to. It is this "good reason" exception in the law that allowed the judge to put a seal on the release in the first place. The seal now being contested by the Orlando Sentinel. In "real world" practice there are many autopsies that have been sealed for privacy reasons because privacy is one of the "good reasons" available to a judge to seal any autopsy record. What makes the sealing of the Dale Earnhardt autopsy unusual IS NOT that it was sealed by a judge, this happens all the time. What IS unusual is that the sealing is being contested. The reason stated by the Orlando Sentinel for the contest it that it wants to determine the cause of death. But that cause has already been determined by competent medical authorities. If the Orlando Sentinel has evidence that the examiners are incompetent or that the determination is false or in error then let them present the evidence. If the Orlando Sentinel has no such evidence then let them be silent. If the Orlando Sentinel has no evidence and refuses to be silent then let the Orlando Sentinel go to hell. If the Earnhardt family is to truly be treated "just like everyone else" the Orlando Sentinel request will be refused and the seal left intact. "Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:22Po6.341616$[email hidden]... > But the trouble is celebrities get media attention whereas regular peopledo > not. Therefore, there's always the question of exploitation. > > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8qOo6.21456$[email hidden]... > > Excellent point Andrew. I totall agree. Maybe it sounds heartless, butthe > > law is the law and just because someone is a "celebrity" doesn't meanthat > > the law should apply to everyone but them. > >

The law states that autopsies are to be made part of the public record. Celebrities should not receive special treatment. There's nothing easier for a celebrity to do than to be forgotten if they decide at some point that the attention is too much. The paper has no desire to publish the photos. I think it may be a good idea to have medical experts look at the autopsy. It may shed a lot of light on NASCAR's ridiculous rules which allow full-faced helmets to be optional. That's why Earnhardt died. Don't be so sure that NASCAR even bothered to look at the autopsy of Earnhardt.They never looked at Irwin or Petty's. David G Fisher "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0ZDo6.15105$%[email hidden]... > I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsyphoto > battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law dictates > that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record > (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes DaleEarnhardt's > autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, ajudge > in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsy photos > on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contendingthat > the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death. The > reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their > medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactlykilled > Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They have given > Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published.This > "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference where she > made the below statement. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your voices be > heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of the Florida > House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, both of > whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue shortly. > Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing the publication of > autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also contact > Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we > encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this > unfortunate situation." > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------------------------- > If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below is a > link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the > Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: > "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make Dale Earnhardt's > autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." > > http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard > > Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that you > would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However small, > the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part of his > story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. However strong > and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to > express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One of the > things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her fight > just that much harder. > > Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm EST Sunday > Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight over the > photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the link is good > for but here it is. > > http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te > resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines > > If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the link no > longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on the battle. > Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainly be on > the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: > > http://orlandosentinel.com/ > > So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov) or > others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If you know > what they are please do the same. > >

In your list below you would be hard pressed to name one of these "exploitations" that was not engaged in voluntarily and happily by all parties concerned. Those who got money got it because they offered a product or service or entertainment others wanted. Those who paid the money paid it because they wanted Dale Earnhardt Racing Clocks, and the rest. Value given and received both ways. No one forcing or being forced. This is called commerce or trade, NOT "exploitation". The Earnhardt autopsy situation is different. There the Earnhardt family is trying to protect and keep private something the Orlando Sentinel is attempting to take by force. The Earnhardt family is in a situation they knew might happen due to the inherent risks of the profession Dale engaged in. But the Orlando Sentinel is taking advantage of that situation to take from them by force something the Earnhardt family had every reason to expect would remain private. This is beyond exploitation, this is rape. "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eSQo6.147$[email hidden]... > > "Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:22Po6.341616$[email hidden]... > > But the trouble is celebrities get media attention whereas regularpeople

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> do > > not. Therefore, there's always the question of exploitation. > > Celebrities exploit their image to make money. Dale Earnhardt Racing > Clocks, Dale Earnhardt on the front of Coke Machines, etc... When is > exploitation good and when is it bad? Is ESPN Classic's tribute to Dale > Earnhardt exploitation? Is SI's special Dale Earnhardt issue

exploitation?

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> Is the Atlanta Journal and Constitutions special Dale Earhnardt section > exploitation? All are done to make money for someone. Why wasn't a fuss > raised about those things? Televising the Dale Earnhardt funeral, sure > seems like exploitation to me. > > >

Slot, you're missing one thing. This *isn't* a federal regulation. It's a Florida State law. The US Congress has no right to tell Florida how to handle this. Don't ask me why the Florida legislature chose that approach, but they did, and perhaps it was a good idea at the time. The JFK assassination comes to mind of one situation that it would have been a good idea have all the documentation made public. This may or may not have had anything to do with why that law exists. GTX_SlotCar wrote:

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> I don't see anyplace in here where it says the paper can publish Earnhardt's > autopsy photos. If the Orlando paper has a picture, they may be free to > publish it, but nothing here says the state has to give them the picture. > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > It's amazing how, over the years, this simple and easy to understand > sentence has been twisted to mean so many things (not by Black Cat, just in > general). > > Let's face it, the paper is only looking for an angle to sell a few more > copies. The Orlando Sentinel is not an expert on racing safety and I > seriously doubt that their medical experts are any better than the ones > provided by the State of Florida or Nascar. > > I don't feel anybody's First Amendment rights would be violated by not > turning the pictures over to the newspaper, but the privacy rights of the > Earnhardt family might be. > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:27:37 GMT, "Joe L." <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > While I certainly don't want the autopsy pictures made public, I don't > > want to see them kept private by government fiat. The first amendment > > makes those pictures legal to publish, and we must respect that, I > > only hope that the paper does the DECENT thing and respects both the > > memory of Dale and Teresa's wishes in this matter and chooses not to > > publish them on their own. > > > > =^..^=

I haveto follow up on and agree with the Cat on this one. I may not personally agree with it, but according to the Law of the Land (Florida specifically), that is a public document and according to the law, is obtainable under the the Florida legal system. I think the judge's initial reaction in making a temporary restraining order is a good idea simply because once it's out of the bottle, this isn't a genie that will go back to the bottle. OTOH, if something can be gained from a professional's examination of the evidence, then I'd like to see it happen. If no one else dies from similar circumstances, then all is not lost. "The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote:

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> On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:27:37 GMT, "Joe L." <[email hidden]> > wrote: > While I certainly don't want the autopsy pictures made public, I don't > want to see them kept private by government fiat. The first amendment > makes those pictures legal to publish, and we must respect that, I > only hope that the paper does the DECENT thing and respects both the > memory of Dale and Teresa's wishes in this matter and chooses not to > publish them on their own. > > =^..^=

Actually, Florida's 'Government-in-the-Sunshine' law is about public access to government meetings, records to those meetings, etc., but Florida Statute Section 119.07(1)(a), establishes the right of access to public records. However, this has been successfully challenged several times in regards to privacy rights and autopsies. My off-handed remark about the 1st Amendment not *specifically* saying the paper could publish the pictures was made out of distain for people who yell "First Amendment Rights!" for every pissy little thing they want to get away with. ------------------------------- The Sentinel admitted that they didn't fully explain their reasons for wanting the pictures because they might lose their 'competitive edge'. So much for their humanitarianism. They have no experts that can shed any new light on this subject, but they themselves could, in fact, 'misstate' the cause of death for their own purposes. If they really did care, the right thing to do would be to wait a year and then request the photos. Give the family some time to grieve. But of course, it wouldn't be news then, and wouldn't be worth doing. ------------------------------- Anyone thinking we don't already have an 'elite' class hasn't looked at our Congress and Senate. Our laws and theirs ARE different, and they continually vote against laws that would give us some of the rights and benefits they enjoy. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Ok, let me get this straight... A newspaper, the Orlando Sentinel, thinks they have a better chance of determining the cause of death than does the official Coroner, Medical Examiner, and other doctors who treated Dale ? Hogwash. This is so pathetic, it's almost funny... We all know what they want to do, and I say they can go to hell. They are quitely sitting on a 'loophole' in their 'agreement' not to post the pictures, and if they ever get them it's all over. -Larry "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0ZDo6.15105$%[email hidden]... > I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsyphoto > battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law dictates > that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record > (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes DaleEarnhardt's > autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, ajudge > in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsy photos > on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contendingthat > the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death. The > reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their > medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactlykilled > Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They have given > Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published.This > "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference where she > made the below statement. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your voices be > heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of the Florida > House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, both of > whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue shortly. > Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing the publication of > autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also contact > Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we > encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this > unfortunate situation." > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------------------------- > If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below is a > link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the > Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: > "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make Dale Earnhardt's > autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." > > http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard > > Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that you > would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However small, > the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part of his > story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. However strong > and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to > express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One of the > things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her fight > just that much harder. > > Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm EST Sunday > Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight over the > photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the link is good > for but here it is. > > http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te > resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines > > If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the link no > longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on the battle. > Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainly be on > the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: > > http://orlandosentinel.com/ > > So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov) or > others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If you know > what they are please do the same. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** They won't. It's not in their very nature. -Larry "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:27:37 GMT, "Joe L." <[email hidden]> > wrote: > While I certainly don't want the autopsy pictures made public, I don't > want to see them kept private by government fiat. The first amendment > makes those pictures legal to publish, and we must respect that, I > only hope that the paper does the DECENT thing and respects both the > memory of Dale and Teresa's wishes in this matter and chooses not to > publish them on their own. > > =^..^=

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Understood... But, I think most of us feel that their true intentions are different from what they state... -Larry "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KpQo6.218465$[email hidden]...

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> > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SDGo6.4434$[email hidden]... > > I don't see anyplace in here where it says the paper can publish > Earnhardt's > > autopsy photos. If the Orlando paper has a picture, they may be free to > > publish it, but nothing here says the state has to give them the

picture. > > > > "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or > > prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom ofspeech, > > or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, andto

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> > petition the Government for a redress of grievances." > > > > It's amazing how, over the years, this simple and easy to understand > > sentence has been twisted to mean so many things (not by Black Cat, just > in > > general). > > > > Let's face it, the paper is only looking for an angle to sell a few more > > copies. The Orlando Sentinel is not an expert on racing safety and I > > seriously doubt that their medical experts are any better than the ones > > provided by the State of Florida or Nascar. > > > > I don't feel anybody's First Amendment rights would be violated by not > > turning the pictures over to the newspaper, but the privacy rights of

the

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> > Earnhardt family might be. > > > > > > -- > > Slot > > You will find it not in the federal constitution, but in Florida state

law. > If you read the original post you would know that under Florida lawautopsy

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> reports and all supporting documents are public. There are actually some > compeling legal reasons why this should be so. > > NOW the first ammendment gives the right to publish. > > While I don't want to see such pictures published personally, I'm leary of > the idea that we should set up special " elite" classes of people for whom > public law does not apply, for any reason. > > Publishing the pictures, as well as the subsequent purchase of the

pictures, > would be in extremely bad taste. Bad taste is NOT a crime. Violating > existing public law to restrict *public* information from being accesed > WOULD be a crime. > > My heart bears no heavy weight for Dale E. He is beyond any care of mineor

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> yours. My heart is heavy for the thoughts of the pain his family is going > through right now. Teresa is the greatest victim in this affair. She has > lost her best friend, lifelong companion, business partner, lover and > husband all in one shot, and believe me, I know EXACTLY what that feels > like. > > HOWEVER, autopsy reports being public record DO fill the function that the > paper has stated they wish to access the records for, independant public > confirmation of facts of record. This prevents orginizations such as

NASCAR > or the government from 'misstating' the cause of death for internalreasons, > such as PR or attempting to avoid litigation. > > KFG > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** David, You _assume_ the paper has no desire to publish the photo's, just because they say so. We do not know this for sure. I would simply not trust them. I've seen the press in action, as a US citizen, for 41 years. Ok, I actually understood it for 31 of them :) I would not trust them as far as I throw my car. Whenever I think of the press, I can't help but have the words 'hidden agenda' in the back of my mind. -Larry "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hHTo6.7697$[email hidden]... > The law states that autopsies are to be made part of the public record. > Celebrities should not receive special treatment. There's nothing easierfor > a celebrity to do than to be forgotten if they decide at some point thatthe > attention is too much. > > The paper has no desire to publish the photos. I think it may be a goodidea

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> to have medical experts look at the autopsy. It may shed a lot of light on > NASCAR's ridiculous rules which allow full-faced helmets to be optional. > That's why Earnhardt died. > > Don't be so sure that NASCAR even bothered to look at the autopsy of > Earnhardt.They never looked at Irwin or Petty's. > > David G Fisher > > > "Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0ZDo6.15105$%[email hidden]... > > I am sure most of you have heard of the Dale Earnhardt autopsy > photo > > battle down if Florida. A summary as I understand it, Florida Law

dictates > > that any autopsy done in the state be made part of the public record > > (Meaning available to anyone who wants them) That includes Dale > Earnhardt's > > autopsy. At the request of Teresa Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt's widow, a > judge > > in Volusia County Florida agreed to halt the release of the autopsyphotos > > on Feb. 23. The Orlando Sentinel is challenging the judge, contending > that > > the photos are critical in determining the cause of Earnhardt's death.The > > reason the Orlando Sentinel say they want them is to have one of their > > medical experts look at them so he can make his guess at what exactly > killed > > Earnhardt. This, they say, so they can make racing safer. They havegiven > > Teresa Earnhardt "guarantees" that the photos will never be published. > This > > "guarantee" came after Teresa Earnhardt held a press conference whereshe > > made the below statement. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ----------------------------- > > "I ask anyone, who feels as strongly as we do, to let your voicesbe > > heard. Over the next few days, please contact the Speaker of the Florida > > House of Representatives and the President of the Florida Senate, bothof > > whom are in Tallahassee, and will hopefully be taking up this issue > shortly. > > Ask them to protect the privacy of citizens by preventing thepublication

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> of > > autopsy photos. Then do the same in your own state. Please also contact > > Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and then contact your own governor. Finally, we > > encourage you to let the Orlando Sentinel know how you feel about this > > unfortunate situation." > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ----------------------------- > > If you want to let the Orlando Sentinel know what you think below is

a

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> > link to a page the Orlando Sentinel has set up for the purpose. As the > > Orlando Sentinel states on the heading to this page: > > "Share your thoughts on the Sentinel's efforts to make Dale Earnhardt's > > autopsy photos available for a medical expert to review." > > > > http://orlandosentinel.com/orl-dalephoto-messageboard.graffitiboard > > > > Those of you who post there I ask that you not use language that

you > > would not use were you standing in front of Teresa Earnhardt. However > small, > > the comments will still be part of Dale Earnhardt's story. This part of > his > > story, his death, should be kept as dignified as possible. Howeverstrong > > and honest your feelings may be in the matter, the language you use to > > express them should not be language that would shame his widow. One ofthe > > things she is fighting for is Dignity. Foul language will make her fight > > just that much harder. > > > > Below is a link to the Orlando Sentinel Online. As of 10:00 pm ESTSunday

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> > Mar 4 the link will take you to an article concerning the fight over the > > photos. Newspapers changing every day I don't know how long the link is > good > > for but here it is. > > > > >

http://orlandosentinel.com/sports/motorracing/sns-earnhardt-autopsyphotos-te > > resa.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines > > > > If you are looking at this post much later than Mar 4 and the link no > > longer works there will almost certainly be some new story on thebattle. > > Whatever the developments, links to the story will almost certainly beon > > the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, here: > > > > http://orlandosentinel.com/ > > > > So far I have not found email addresses to Jeb Bush (Florida Gov)or > > others Teresa Earnhardt mentions. When I do I will post them. If youknow > > what they are please do the same. > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> The paper has no desire to publish the photos. I think it may be a goodidea

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> to have medical experts look at the autopsy. It may shed a lot of light on > NASCAR's ridiculous rules which allow full-faced helmets to be optional. > That's why Earnhardt died. > > Don't be so sure that NASCAR even bothered to look at the autopsy of > Earnhardt.They never looked at Irwin or Petty's. > > David G Fisher

I know others like "Joe L" say that the Sentinel needs to prove the medical examiners that did the autopsy were incompetent before getting the information. He compares what the Sentinel is doing to rape. I think that's a false analogy, designed to be inflammatory. It may be analogous to publishing photos of a rape victim, but not rape itself. And that's ONLY accepting that the paper getting the autopsy directly results in photos ending up on the net. There's no assurance that will happen. I don't think the Sentinel needs to meet that burden of proof, that of proving the original autopsy bogus. The examiners were appointed by NASCAR. NASCAR would have you believe a bad seat belt was the cause of death. That may or may not be so. The Sentinel smells a rat here and is trying to investigate using a State statute that they can use to corroborate the cause of death. If the pictures end up on the Net, due to the Sentinel getting them and then getting leaked, well that's reason to publically crucify the paper. But saying, "Hey, let's not risk it. The widow doesn't want it, so let's just accept that he died because his seat belt let go and move on." obfuscates an important issue: What if the seat belt story is bogus? The ramifications of that are severe. That means he essentially died because he took a blow to the head from the wheel, or that his nec was snapped from the force of impact. And that NASCAR by not mandating the Haas system have essentially disregarded an important safety advancement because it wasn't accepted by drivers. Reviewing the autopsy may unconver this. An independent review being stopped because the widow doesn't want it is not valid. The issues involve one of the nation's most popular sports being forced to adopt a safety advancement due to the death of it's biggest star. I don't think that it is too much to ask to have the autopsy reviewed by medical experts outside those who may have a financial tie to NASCAR. Did Dale's car have an onboard camera? If so, why hasn't anyone gone on record about what the tape contains? Do you see the seat belt breaking? That would put a quick end to the speculation that the belt is a bogus coverup story. The paper is doing this to secure circulation, but don't let that blur your perception. All investigative journalism is done to sell papers. Consider is this were another sport you don't care about. The biggest star of that sport dies under somewhat mysterious circumstances. The autopsy is closed, the result is issued by the league itself, and the widow immediately stands up to challenge any inquiry.

Good post. David G Fisher "Daniel Drumm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I know others like "Joe L" say that the Sentinel needs to prove themedical > examiners that did the autopsy were incompetent before getting the > information. He compares what the Sentinel is doing to rape. I thinkthat's

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> a false analogy, designed to be inflammatory. It may be analogous to > publishing photos of a rape victim, but not rape itself. And that's ONLY > accepting that the paper getting the autopsy directly results in photos > ending up on the net. There's no assurance that will happen. > > I don't think the Sentinel needs to meet that burden of proof, that of > proving the original autopsy bogus. The examiners were appointed by

NASCAR. > NASCAR would have you believe a bad seat belt was the cause of death. That > may or may not be so. The Sentinel smells a rat here and is trying to > investigate using a State statute that they can use to corroborate thecause > of death. > > If the pictures end up on the Net, due to the Sentinel getting them andthen > getting leaked, well that's reason to publically crucify the paper. But > saying, "Hey, let's not risk it. The widow doesn't want it, so let's just > accept that he died because his seat belt let go and move on." obfuscatesan > important issue: > > What if the seat belt story is bogus? The ramifications of that aresevere. > That means he essentially died because he took a blow to the head from the > wheel, or that his nec was snapped from the force of impact. And thatNASCAR > by not mandating the Haas system have essentially disregarded an important > safety advancement because it wasn't accepted by drivers. Reviewing the > autopsy may unconver this. An independent review being stopped because the > widow doesn't want it is not valid. The issues involve one of the nation's > most popular sports being forced to adopt a safety advancement due to the > death of it's biggest star. I don't think that it is too much to ask tohave > the autopsy reviewed by medical experts outside those who may have a > financial tie to NASCAR. > > Did Dale's car have an onboard camera? If so, why hasn't anyone gone on > record about what the tape contains? Do you see the seat belt breaking?That > would put a quick end to the speculation that the belt is a bogus coverup > story. > > The paper is doing this to secure circulation, but don't let that bluryour > perception. All investigative journalism is done to sell papers. Consideris > this were another sport you don't care about. The biggest star of thatsport

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> dies under somewhat mysterious circumstances. The autopsy is closed, the > result is issued by the league itself, and the widow immediately stands up > to challenge any inquiry. > > > > > >

> > Did Dale's car have an onboard camera? If so, why hasn't anyone gone on > > record about what the tape contains? Do you see the seat belt breaking? > That > > would put a quick end to the speculation that the belt is a boguscoverup > > story. Well since the belt supposedly broke near the buckle( for lack of a better word) seeing that on the incar would not be something you would see. Now saying the movement should show well that is hard to tell also. I remember a incar of Richard Petty hitting the outside wall at a track, and well it was not a hard hit, but his head actaully hit the camera that was in the middle of the passenger side of the car. Richard walked away from the shunt also so I would say incar footage unless very very good would not tell you very much. As for the widows right to release anything on Dale, well that is her choice. Who knows Dale might have wanted to be just buried and no matter what happened for his family to get on with living. I remember when my father died last year we just wanted to get on with life. It was easier then actaully trying to think about anything else. as for the article that was published, I think they did a reasonable job of researching it. I will say I do not think the Hans device would have helped a couple of the drivers they said it would. Personally I wish people would leave the Earnhardt family alone. If they do not want the photos to be released then so be it. They do not need to go thru any more then they already have. As for safety issues well maybe the drivers in Nascar need to start looking at how much they are worth and then look at the low cost of the safety devices they could be using. Cart Drivers were testing the Hans device before it was mandated, and well Jim Downing has been using one for years in IMSA racing. Dave Robinson

"Daniel Drumm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I know others like "Joe L" say that the Sentinel needs to prove themedical > examiners that did the autopsy were incompetent before getting the > information. He compares what the Sentinel is doing to rape. I thinkthat's > a false analogy, designed to be inflammatory. It may be analogous to > publishing photos of a rape victim, but not rape itself. And that's ONLY > accepting that the paper getting the autopsy directly results in photos > ending up on the net. There's no assurance that will happen. Physical rape, no but not all that happens in a rape is physical. The rapist takes something from the victim that has nothing to do with physical contact The physical wounds can be cleaned up and will heal, not so the non-physical wounds. If the Earnhardt marriage was worth a damn at all there is something very precious and very private that the Orlando Sentinel is attempting to force from Teresa Earnhardt. Perhaps the Sentinel is not tearing her clothes off and inflicting physical wounds but if the Orlando Sentinel succeeds in tearing the "clothes" from her privacy would you please tell me how the psychological wounds of the one would differ from those of the other? If little difference how is my anaology "false"? and what more fitting term than "rape"? > I don't think the Sentinel needs to meet that burden of proof, that of > proving the original autopsy bogus. The examiners were appointed byNASCAR. > NASCAR would have you believe a bad seat belt was the cause of death. That > may or may not be so. The Sentinel smells a rat here and is trying to > investigate using a State statute that they can use to corroborate thecause > of death. Does it strike you as odd that the editor of the Ornaldo Sentinel is just about the only one that can smell this rat? Does it strike you as odd that neither Teresa Earnhardt nor Dale jr. nor any of the other drivers or mechanics smell this rat? All of these are satisfied with NASCAR's determination. What God given insite does the editor of the Orlando Sentinel have that allowed him to pierce the fog all these others are blinded by? > If the pictures end up on the Net, due to the Sentinel getting them andthen > getting leaked, well that's reason to publically crucify the paper. But > saying, "Hey, let's not risk it. The widow doesn't want it, so let's just > accept that he died because his seat belt let go and move on." obfuscatesan > important issue: > > What if the seat belt story is bogus? The ramifications of that aresevere. > That means he essentially died because he took a blow to the head from the > wheel, or that his nec was snapped from the force of impact. And thatNASCAR > by not mandating the Haas system have essentially disregarded an important > safety advancement because it wasn't accepted by drivers. Reviewing the > autopsy may unconver this. It was not NASCAR that diregarded it. Dale Earnhardt did that. The device was perfectly available to him and he was compleatly aware of what it was and what it did. If Dale said, "Put it on the car" it would have been there. Dale did not say this so it was not. >An independent review being stopped because the > widow doesn't want it is not valid. The issues involve one of the nation's > most popular sports being forced to adopt a safety advancement due to the > death of it's biggest star. I don't think that it is too much to ask tohave > the autopsy reviewed by medical experts outside those who may have a > financial tie to NASCAR. Over the financial interests of the Orlando Sentinel who keeping all research and results exclusively for the Orlando Sentinel? And it is NOT medical expertS (plural). It is ONLY the ONE (singular) Orlando Sentinel hired doctor that the paper wants in on the examination. Just him. ONLY him. No other "authority" or "expert" allowed. Just the ONE GUY who is hired by the Orlando Sentinel. *****THIS**** you call an "independent review"? > > Did Dale's car have an onboard camera? If so, why hasn't anyone gone on > record about what the tape contains? Do you see the seat belt breaking?That > would put a quick end to the speculation that the belt is a bogus coverup > story. > > The paper is doing this to secure circulation, but don't let that bluryour > perception. All investigative journalism is done to sell papers. Consideris > this were another sport you don't care about. The biggest star of thatsport > dies under somewhat mysterious circumstances. The autopsy is closed, the > result is issued by the league itself, and the widow immediately stands up > to challenge any inquiry. > Are you saying here that Teresa Earnhardt is in on it? WOW, This is sure going to beat the hell out of that "Magic Bullet" and "Grassy Knoll" crap.

"Joe L." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ipip6.2037$[email hidden]... Joe L writes: > Does it strike you as odd that the editor of the Ornaldo Sentinel is > just about the only one that can smell this rat? Does it strike you as odd > that neither Teresa Earnhardt nor Dale jr. nor any of the other drivers or > mechanics smell this rat? All of these are satisfied with NASCAR's > determination. That's because NASCAR makes them rich. Nobody expects them to publically speculate, much less openly question the validity of the seat belt story. >What God given insite does the editor of the Orlando Sentinel > have that allowed him to pierce the fog all these others are blinded by? It may interest you to know that several other papers, including the NY Times, have now come forward asking for the results of the autopsy. So, we can dismiss this right off. The review, if performed, would be done by several medical experts, not simply one appointed by the Sentinel designed to give a sensationalistic answer. > It was not NASCAR that diregarded it. Dale Earnhardt did that. The > device was perfectly available to him and he was compleatly aware of whatit > was and what it did. If Dale said, "Put it on the car" it would have been > there. Dale did not say this so it was not. The issue is not that of Dale choosing not to use the Haas system when he could have. Jeff Gordon and others had experimented with it, and Jeff deemed it to unweildly to wear. A lot of drivers fussed about making gloves mandatory in the 70s. This is a straw man argument. One expects drivers not to do anything to put them at competitive disadvantage. Which is all the more reason NASCAR has a duty to make it mandatory. The issue is simply this: Before the crash, NASCAR had lost 3 drivers in 7 months. Dale made it 4 drivers in 9 months. That puts the mortality rate of NASCAR drivers higher than even that of the F1 drivers of the late 60's, and that's saying something. At this rate, we can expect 2 more drivers to die this season. Was the autopsy conducted in an unbiased manner? Was it designed to obscure the fact NASCAR disregarded evidence that should have an additional safety system made mandatory? the way it is now, as fans we can all swallow the "oh, the seat belt broke" story and move on. Interestingly, nobody has questioned the maker of the seat belt buckle publically. > Over the financial interests of the Orlando Sentinel who keeping all > research and results exclusively for the Orlando Sentinel? And it is NOT > medical expertS (plural). It is ONLY the ONE (singular) Orlando Sentinel > hired doctor that the paper wants in on the examination. Just him. ONLYhim. > No other "authority" or "expert" allowed. Just the ONE GUY who is hiredby > the Orlando Sentinel. > *****THIS**** you call an "independent review"? It's a shame, but not at all shocking, that the Orlando paper is made to be a villan here. Hopefully, having other papers call for a review will stop this. > Are you saying here that Teresa Earnhardt is in on it? WOW, This is sure > going to beat the hell out of that "Magic Bullet" and "Grassy Knoll" crap. In on what? Conspiracies don't all involve everyone in on some scripted plot, you know. I don't think Mrs. Earnhardt is anything other than that what appears: a bereaved widow who does not want to see her husband's gruesome corpse end up on www.autopsy.com. I don't want to see that either. I also know people's nature, and if they do end up on the net, the site will be flooded. I also think that if NASCAR were to say Dale died from a fracture impact to the head without the seat belt story in there, they open themselves up to litigation from other families. NASCAR clearly disregarded a trend in driver deaths here. Do you argue this? Do you argue that 4 NASCAR deaths in 9 months is not grounds for safety procedure review? If you allow yourself to fall prey to the spin put on by NASCAR of "The widow vs. the ugly yellow journalist" and propagate petitions like this one to stop the paper from reviewing the autopsy, you are simply allowing yourself to be blinded by the organization of NASCAR and are not looking at the bigger picture of driver safety. If a judge ruled that NASCAR was neglegent as an organization from mandating protection, I don't think the Pettys are going to hire a trial attorney to sue NASCAR over their son's death. NASCAR is a small fraternity, and nobody is going to kill the golden goose like that. Much less the King or anybody else for that matter. From what I gather talking to other NASCAR fans, it will take a driver like Rusty or Jeff Gordon to walk away from the sport, refuse to get in the car, to bring it to the attention that it needs. But that will not happen. Mainly because, privately, many drivers may adopt the HAAS or choose to wear it. That is smart. But look at the hoods of the cars for a moment. Corporate America has a love affair with NASCAR. NASCAR is slow to adopt a system when they have essentially an avalanche of death upon their hands. 4 drivers in 9 months? That's insane. Perhaps we don't need to visit Dale's autopsy to bring this to light. But NASCAR has said they will not be modfying the safety rules this season. That puts good odds on somebody else getting killed or seriously hurt this season. I just hope it isn't your next favorite driver. I won't follow up anymore, I've said all I have to say. Put in your last words if you must, I just hope that you will consider that perhaps this isn't as simple as it's being spun.