WSC?

--Haven't been here in a while and N4 has clouded my mind since I first heard about it years ago. --What is WSC? -- Member of the Nondeterministic Football League

World Sports Cars... An imaginary sim which RASer's believe will revolutionise the industry Ok, enough of the sarcasm. So far after more than a year of promise after promise we still have no more than a few screenshots of this sim. It claims to have this that and the other thing and to have rolling videos and demo's showing all it's capabilities but so far has produced nothing. The still-lives look promising but chances are they are from an intro or something judging by the nature of how they are taken i.e. empty tracks, cars parked in strange places, 1 nice view into the cockpit. If this ever does materialise into something and these are actual gameplay secrets we will need a super computer to play it, but since it's not likely to be ready before 2015 then we should have those computers by then. It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it will), it will disappoint some. I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for this game but nothing's proven after almost a year. Lou Moran <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> --Haven't been here in a while and N4 has clouded my mind since I > first heard about it years ago. > > --What is WSC? > > -- > Member of the Nondeterministic Football League

GraDee wrote: > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it will), > it will disappoint some. When you say "which I doubt it will" is that just purely based on there being no demo yet? Because the video looked real enough to me. Plus everything I've read leads me to believe WSC is a serious commercial venture. The West brothers seem like genuine sim fans who really care about what they're producing. So why so negative? Cheers Gerry

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:31:38 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote wonderful things about sparkplugs: >It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it will), >it will disappoint some. > >I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for this game >but nothing's proven after almost a year. Thanks. I actually did know wbout this... I remember the screenshots. I am afraid you might be right, this looks a lot like vaporware -- Member of the Nondeterministic Football League

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > So why so negative? >Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. The most intensely anticipated Superbowls tend to be yawners, yet the 42nd & 84th ranked college teams can have a barn burner. The weather forecasts the "storm of the decade", turns out to be 1/2 inch of snow. Yet the 3 ft accumulations come unannounced. Remember that Y2K thing...... Why would WSC be any different?

On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:18:41 -0500, Lou Moran <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:31:38 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote >wonderful things about sparkplugs: > > >>It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it will), >>it will disappoint some. >> >>I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for this game >>but nothing's proven after almost a year. > >Thanks. I actually did know wbout this... I remember the screenshots. >I am afraid you might be right, this looks a lot like vaporware

They're driving their own sim, a PS2 conversion is being made, new tracks are being made, so why shouldn't this ever be released in any form? Although the PS2 team is having a tough time ofcourse, this game will see the public light, no doubt. The problem is they want to release both platform versions, and I think that will be the main reason for any delays. IIRC, a demo is planned for september. Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

Art, very scientific, give NASA a call <VBG>. Gerry Art McEwen wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > So why so negative? > > > Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. > > The most intensely anticipated Superbowls tend to be yawners, yet the 42nd > & 84th ranked college teams can have a barn burner. > > The weather forecasts the "storm of the decade", turns out to be 1/2 inch of > snow. Yet the 3 ft accumulations come unannounced. > > Remember that Y2K thing...... > > Why would WSC be any different?

I don't remember when weather, superbowls or Y2K had a developer behind them trying to make sure they work out right. Maybe you believe there is a god of the Y2K that failed you... JB "Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:983dm0$fb$[email hidden]...

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > So why so negative? > > > Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. > > The most intensely anticipated Superbowls tend to be yawners, yet the 42nd > & 84th ranked college teams can have a barn burner. > > The weather forecasts the "storm of the decade", turns out to be 1/2 inch

of

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> snow. Yet the 3 ft accumulations come unannounced. > > Remember that Y2K thing...... > > Why would WSC be any different? > >

"Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZGbp6.1778$[email hidden]... > I don't remember when weather, superbowls or Y2K had a developer behindthem > trying to make sure they work out right. GP3 had developers behind it ;)

When EA's Madden 2001 was coming out, did you get a demo a year in advance? Did you get 3 decent length videos showing the gameplay? I believe that game was released, so why are you so negative towards WSC. I think YOU are expecting too much from the developers...They are working on developing a game instead of giving YOU lots of things to prove that it exists...how can anyone be that cruel! (that was sarcastic) You normally don't hear about a game until late in development...this is a game that has been revealed very early on...don't strip the developers of their respect just because they told you they were making a game early on. Since you are so heavily held in your views, would you care to make a wager concerning the release of this game? JB "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:983ade$oj5$[email hidden]... > World Sports Cars... > An imaginary sim which RASer's believe will revolutionise the industry > > Ok, enough of the sarcasm. > So far after more than a year of promise after promise we still have nomore

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> than a few screenshots of this sim. It claims to have this that and the > other thing and to have rolling videos and demo's showing all it's > capabilities but so far has produced nothing. > The still-lives look promising but chances are they are from an intro or > something judging by the nature of how they are taken > i.e. empty tracks, cars parked in strange places, 1 nice view into the > cockpit. > > If this ever does materialise into something and these are actual gameplay > secrets we will need a super computer to play it, but since it's not

likely > to be ready before 2015 then we should have those computers by then. > > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt itwill), > it will disappoint some. > > I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for thisgame

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> but nothing's proven after almost a year. > > > Lou Moran <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > --Haven't been here in a while and N4 has clouded my mind since I > > first heard about it years ago. > > > > --What is WSC? > > > > -- > > Member of the Nondeterministic Football League > >

How simple life would be if this was universally true. GPL was hyped a hundred times more than Spirit of Speed 1937, and it's about a hundred times better. "Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:983dm0$fb$[email hidden]... > > Hype is inversely proportional to outcome.

hahahah, very good one Art. You proved my theory wrong. Oh well. JB "Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:983hid$hf$[email hidden]...

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> > "Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ZGbp6.1778$[email hidden]... > > I don't remember when weather, superbowls or Y2K had a developer behind > them > > trying to make sure they work out right. > > GP3 had developers behind it ;) > >

I'll just pop in and throw my 2 cents on the table. Let's take a look back at the general chronology of events WSC has encountered for a quick second: 1) They announced the project to the public in form of some SS and some tantalizing information 2) Chris/Tony then became available to the public 3) People made some great suggestions to them (Chris/Tony). 4) They not only listened, but seemed to have adopted many of the suggestions into the game (while in development). 5) A bit of a silence from the West's and Empire I suspect the 5th is a result of a lot of time spent on listening, but at the end of the day you have to draw a line in the sand regarding projects, and seperate Version 1 from Version 2. Otherwise... Version 1 never sees the light of day. So I have confidence that the Wests are busy working hard to finish V1.0 and have even set-back development to incorporate many of the suggestions the community offered. So at the end of the day I take this position on WSC: All great things take time and effort. If it was easy, they'd all be doing it... quickly. The West's really broke the mould of "build it and they will come if the Marketing Department does their job right", and took another approach which is to build the Sim we want. I applaud their open mindedness, and applaud them on their aspirations. They are only human ya know... and even god took 7 days to build the earth... Cheers, Schumi P.S. Keep in mind that these guys are attempting to make something quite advanced. It's going to take some time :) "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:983ade$oj5$[email hidden]... > World Sports Cars... > An imaginary sim which RASer's believe will revolutionise the industry > > Ok, enough of the sarcasm. > So far after more than a year of promise after promise we still have nomore

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> than a few screenshots of this sim. It claims to have this that and the > other thing and to have rolling videos and demo's showing all it's > capabilities but so far has produced nothing. > The still-lives look promising but chances are they are from an intro or > something judging by the nature of how they are taken > i.e. empty tracks, cars parked in strange places, 1 nice view into the > cockpit. > > If this ever does materialise into something and these are actual gameplay > secrets we will need a super computer to play it, but since it's not

likely > to be ready before 2015 then we should have those computers by then. > > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt itwill), > it will disappoint some. > > I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for thisgame

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> but nothing's proven after almost a year. > > > Lou Moran <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > --Haven't been here in a while and N4 has clouded my mind since I > > first heard about it years ago. > > > > --What is WSC? > > > > -- > > Member of the Nondeterministic Football League > >

I'll just pop in and throw my 2 cents on the table. Let's take a look back at the general chronology of events WSC has encountered for a quick second: 1) They announced the project to the public in form of some SS and some tantalizing information 2) Chris/Tony then became available to the public 3) People made some great suggestions to them (Chris/Tony). 4) They not only listened, but seemed to have adopted many of the suggestions into the game (while in development). 5) A bit of a silence from the West's and Empire I suspect the 5th is a result of a lot of time spent on listening, but at the end of the day you have to draw a line in the sand regarding projects, and seperate Version 1 from Version 2. Otherwise... Version 1 never sees the light of day. So I have confidence that the Wests are busy working hard to finish V1.0 and have even set-back development to incorporate many of the suggestions the community offered. So at the end of the day I take this position on WSC: All great things take time and effort. If it was easy, they'd all be doing it... quickly. The West's really broke the mould of "build it and they will come if the Marketing Department does their job right", and took another approach which is to build the Sim we want. I applaud their open mindedness, and applaud them on their aspirations. They are only human ya know... and even god took 7 days to build the earth... Cheers, Schumi P.S. Keep in mind that these guys are attempting to make something quite advanced. It's going to take some time :) > World Sports Cars... > An imaginary sim which RASer's believe will revolutionise the industry > Ok, enough of the sarcasm. > So far after more than a year of promise after promise we still have no more

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> than a few screenshots of this sim. It claims to have this that and the > other thing and to have rolling videos and demo's showing all it's > capabilities but so far has produced nothing. > The still-lives look promising but chances are they are from an intro or > something judging by the nature of how they are taken > i.e. empty tracks, cars parked in strange places, 1 nice view into the >***pit. > If this ever does materialise into something and these are actual gameplay > secrets we will need a super computer to play it, but since it's not

likely > to be ready before 2015 then we should have those computers by then. > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it will), > it will disappoint some. > I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for this game

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> but nothing's proven after almost a year. > > --Haven't been here in a while and N4 has clouded my mind since I > > first heard about it years ago. > > --What is WSC? > > -- > > Member of the Nondeterministic Football League

Art McEwen wrote:

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> > "Wosco" wrote in message > > > I don't remember when weather, superbowls or Y2K had a developer behind > them > > trying to make sure they work out right. > > GP3 had developers behind it ;)

Touch�! But before you rest on your laurels (sp?) - did you ever talk to them? Did they ever "talk" to "us" ? Did you ever see them post here? Did you ever see them answering questions on multiple forums? Did you *ever* get the chance to chat with them on VROC? Hype from a *publisher* is quite different from the "hype" from the *developers*... and to be fair.. - in WSC case, the "hype" comes from the developers and not the marketing "guru's" [Sorry Phil!] at the publisher. Beside, I never had much hope's for GP3 anyway! <VBG!> ed_

Didn't he have a bit of a rest on the seventh day? You know how easily these omnipotent beings tire ;) I agree. Sure, we're all impatient to see this game, but at least the West Brothers aren't trying to rip us all off with unfinished products. Also I get the impression from what i've read that they're writing this game as much for themselves as for sim players. When you have this sort of passion and dedication to a project then you end up wanting everything to be perfect. As for the game becoming vapour-ware, that's just crazy. They're working on the game just as much right now as they were this time last year. Every time they've given a potential finish date, they've obviously underestimated how long the project would take to finish, but as long as they keep going, at some point it will be finished, even if it's 2 years away. "Jason "Schumi" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > They are only human ya know... and even god took > 7 days to build the earth... > > Cheers, > > Schumi

> know... and even god took > 7 days to build the earth... And I guess, 7 years to build WSC ! .......yawn

> > As for the game becoming vapour-ware, that's just crazy. They're workingon > the game just as much right now as they were this time last year. Every > time they've given a potential finish date, they've obviouslyunderestimated > how long the project would take to finish, but as long as they keep going, > at some point it will be finished, even if it's 2 years away. Different genre but you might get the point. A10 Warthog by Janes...within weeks of completion...Project cancelled by EA. A helicopter sim due about one year after Longbow2(sorry I forgot the details) Eidos buys the publishing rights and closes the project down. Moves the team over to Confirmed Kill. Did Confirmed Kill EVER get released? Just about every title except Half Life at Sierra gets squashed. Teams are laid off, re-assigned. Falcon 4 team gets fired leaving Mig-29 stillborn. The money-grubbing bean counters that fund the West brothers will only wait so long before they A) force a release of an unfinished product. B) Kill the project outright C) Sell WSC to a company that only makes Playstation games. We have 'reason' to be, if anything, concerned. dave henrie

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> > "Jason "Schumi" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > They are only human ya know... and even god took > > 7 days to build the earth... > > > > Cheers, > > > > Schumi > > >

GraDee....... As I read your post, I was struck with the thought that it would have been nice for you to let us know the depth of your credentials, re: creating a racing sim from scratch. Could you do that? If you have no background in pc-based game creation, racing sim or no racing sim...maybe you could tell us about the track graphics editing you do? Or, maybe the sound editing you do? And.....just to refresh your memory.....N4 was some 18 months late...maybe longer, I lost count waiting for it actually. And, I think Papy has about 40 employees (down from the 80 or so that created N2 and GPL). The West brothers....are a "team of two." I wondered if that had an impact on your thinking? Also...I should think you'd be interested in this fact. Even though N4 has been released.....I think it would be a general concensus among RAS N4 drivers.........that it is NOT completed. Would I be right there? And, I doubt it will be completed even after the first official "patch" comes out....or the next. What this racing sim community could use most.....is a "universal" sim...with an open code. I believe N4 has the potential to become that.....with some changes in the code...and a bit of "influence peddling" on Papy's part. I know WSC has the potential to become just that. I also believe.....Chris and Tony have that in mind! To Chris and Tony West......just keep on pluggin' away guys.....we're all behind you (well, most of us are behind you.....that is)........just get it close....and let the rest of us help you finish it off....if that could ever be possible even? Regards, Tom Pabst PS: I drove WSC at E3 last year........it wasn't a "fake" movie. And....it was mind-numbingly awesome! If the price tag where $500 big ones for the retail "box"......I'd still wait in line all day to buy it....probably still buy 4 or 5 of them too. And, when the Empire version of WSC is released....I'm going to do my darndest to get my "game box" autographed by Chris and Tony West......that's how "significant" I believe their contribution to this sim racing community is going to become!

How many of those games were being written by 2-man developement teams? Publishers typically cancel games when they don't think they're going to make enough back to cover the continued costs of developement. Empire only have to pay two wages to get WSC finished. Also it depends on what kind of deal the West Brothers have with Empire. Some developers keep copyright of their own code, in which case cancellation would only cause a delay. Every different publisher has their own standards and judges these things differently. The majority of late games are still published. There's an interview with the West Brother in this months PC Zone (uk) and they still sound extremely positive. I think it's a little early to give up on the project. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vDfp6.518550$[email hidden]... > > > > As for the game becoming vapour-ware, that's just crazy. They'reworking > on > > the game just as much right now as they were this time last year. Every > > time they've given a potential finish date, they've obviously > underestimated > > how long the project would take to finish, but as long as they keepgoing, > > at some point it will be finished, even if it's 2 years away. > > Different genre but you might get the point. > A10 Warthog by Janes...within weeks of completion...Project cancelled byEA. > A helicopter sim due about one year after Longbow2(sorry I forgot the > details) > Eidos buys the publishing rights and closes the project down. Moves the > team over > to Confirmed Kill. Did Confirmed Kill EVER get released? > Just about every title except Half Life at Sierra gets squashed. Teamsare

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> laid off, > re-assigned. Falcon 4 team gets fired leaving Mig-29 stillborn. > The money-grubbing bean counters that fund the West brothers will only > wait so > long before they A) force a release of an unfinished product. > B) Kill the project outright > C) Sell WSC to a company that only makes > Playstation games. > We have 'reason' to be, if anything, concerned. > dave henrie > > > > > > "Jason "Schumi" Murray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > They are only human ya know... and even god took > > > 7 days to build the earth... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Schumi > > > > > > > >

"Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:983dm0$fb$[email hidden]... > > Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. Damn! Now I know why my claim of having a very large "axle" never worked ;).

It's rare, but yes sometimes I agree with Tom. From personal experience working in the software industry (though only a short period of time compared to many others) these products are NOT done within a reasonable amount of time anymore. N4's creation was way back in 1998 and even earlier if you think about the fact that GPL was kind of a testing ground for the N4 code. Now, as for the West brothers attempting to create, or simulate, as best as possible an auto-racing sport as a whole... it will take some time, not just a matter of 1 to 2 years. N4 took a minimum of 3 years and they (Papy) already had all the figures, notes, specs, etc., to create this sim, or at least the portions that they did complete before release. 10 years ago PC games would fit onto one floppy disk, now they reside on a 600+ CD and even multiple CD's. The amount of coding that these guys have to do is amazing. Not even taking in that the West brothers are not basing their product off an already existing product... it is being built from scratch. This means they have to also create and debug each and every tool the use to create the product. From car editors, to track editors, each of these could take more time then actually putting the product together after the fact. I know from my personal experience in track creating for the N3 product that each of these tracks take a couple months to build properly. Some took nearly 6 months by themselves.... and this is only 1 stinking track... no car physics, user interface, etc. I am able to cut a lot of corners and release a fairly good track, minus some realism and flash, in a matter of a couple weeks, but I am not getting the impression from the West brothers that they are cutting any corners. We already have enough half-assed sims out there (pretty much all of them currently)... for once I would like to see one sim hit the shelves complete... even it is in 2015, it will most likely still be the first... It is our fault as the consumers... we keep buying these half-finished products, giving the "OK" to the Sierra's and EA's of the world to keep on giving us crappy software and hopefully patch it afterwards. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vkhp6.3288$[email hidden]... : GraDee....... : : As I read your post, I was struck with the thought that it would have been : nice for you to let us know the depth of your credentials, re: creating a : racing sim from scratch. Could you do that? If you have no background in : pc-based game creation, racing sim or no racing sim...maybe you could tell : us about the track graphics editing you do? Or, maybe the sound editing you : do? : : And.....just to refresh your memory.....N4 was some 18 months late...maybe : longer, I lost count waiting for it actually. And, I think Papy has about : 40 employees (down from the 80 or so that created N2 and GPL). The West : brothers....are a "team of two." I wondered if that had an impact on your : thinking? : : Also...I should think you'd be interested in this fact. Even though N4 has : been released.....I think it would be a general concensus among RAS N4 : drivers.........that it is NOT completed. Would I be right there? And, I : doubt it will be completed even after the first official "patch" comes : out....or the next. : : What this racing sim community could use most.....is a "universal" : sim...with an open code. I believe N4 has the potential to become : that.....with some changes in the code...and a bit of "influence peddling" : on Papy's part. I know WSC has the potential to become just that. I also : believe.....Chris and Tony have that in mind! : : To Chris and Tony West......just keep on pluggin' away guys.....we're all : behind you (well, most of us are behind you.....that is)........just get it : close....and let the rest of us help you finish it off....if that could ever : be possible even? : : Regards, : : Tom Pabst : : PS: I drove WSC at E3 last year........it wasn't a "fake" movie. And....it : was mind-numbingly awesome! If the price tag where $500 big ones for the : retail "box"......I'd still wait in line all day to buy it....probably still : buy 4 or 5 of them too. And, when the Empire version of WSC is : released....I'm going to do my darndest to get my "game box" autographed by : Chris and Tony West......that's how "significant" I believe their : contribution to this sim racing community is going to become! : :

> > > > Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. Simon Brown wrote: > > How simple life would be if this was universally true. > > GPL was hyped a hundred times more than Spirit of Speed 1937, and it's about > a hundred times better. I tried to calculate the exact ratio, but got a "divide by zero" error! -Greg ============ Anti-Spam measures have been taken! Remove duplicate letters to reply.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:40:20 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote: >How simple life would be if this was universally true. > >GPL was hyped a hundred times more than Spirit of Speed 1937, and it's about >a hundred times better. Hmm.. was GPL hyped? At that time I didn't read RAS, just the games magazines. And besides an occasional preview I hardly read anything about it. The demo didn't work on my pc so I skipped it. Who cares about old cars anyway I thought.. Imagine my amazement when I tried the full game for the first time.. Andre

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> >"Art McEwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:983dm0$fb$[email hidden]... >> >> Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. > > >

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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> On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:40:20 GMT, "Simon Brown" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >How simple life would be if this was universally true. > > > >GPL was hyped a hundred times more than Spirit of Speed 1937, and it's about > >a hundred times better. > > Hmm.. was GPL hyped? At that time I didn't read RAS, just the games > magazines. And besides an occasional preview I hardly read anything > about it. The demo didn't work on my pc so I skipped it. Who cares > about old cars anyway I thought.. > Imagine my amazement when I tried the full game for the first time..

GPL was hyped here allright :) About hype anyway : I think WSC is hyped in another way than other sims. As far as I can see it, the West's haven't done anything else than telling about the features in a neutral way I think, but it's the community that has gone completely bonkers about the whole thing. So is it really the West's fault that some people think it will be the ultimate and some think that it won't see the day of light ? They could of course done their stuff and not said anything, like they did the first years of development, but then we wouldn't have all the fun :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

> > GPL was hyped here allright GPL came out a few months before Speedvision, here in the States, found sucess by running a restored version of Grand Prix with James Garner. IF....Sierra had merely taken the GPL intro video and made a short TV comercial with it....Sales would have been much higher. (although returns probably would have too.) A missed opportunity. dave henrie

On the same subject, does anyone know what can be considered good sales for a racing sim? We've all read that GPL sold 40,000 copies, but then I read that GP3, which is considered a commercial success has sold 70,000 copies which doesn't seem a lot more to me. Then I read somwhere else how POD had sold over 1 million copies. I know that some publishers are prone to vast exaggeration with sales figures, and maybe Ubisoft did this with POD. Obviously arcade racers are more popular than sims, but GP3 is one of those titles that i'd expect to appeals to both player types. Then to confuse things even more, I read on www.avault.com that less than 1% of PC titles sell over 50,000 copies. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GJrp6.522574$[email hidden]...

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> GPL came out a few months before Speedvision, here in the States, found > sucess by > running a restored version of Grand Prix with James Garner. IF....Sierra > had merely > taken the GPL intro video and made a short TV comercial with it....Sales > would > have been much higher. (although returns probably would have too.) A > missed > opportunity. > dave henrie > >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in <ltup6.8745$[email hidden]>: >On the same subject, does anyone know what can be considered good sales >for a racing sim? We've all read that GPL sold 40,000 copies, but then >I read that GP3, which is considered a commercial success has sold >70,000 copies which doesn't seem a lot more to me. AFAIK, GPL was 40K worldwide UK pre-Xmas sales for Gp3 were 70k. Shipout over Europe for Gp3 was IIRC, about 250k ? Z.

Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > GraDee wrote: > > > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt itwill),

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> > it will disappoint some. > > When you say "which I doubt it will" is that just purely based on there > being no demo yet? Because the video looked real enough to me. > > Plus everything I've read leads me to believe WSC is a serious > commercial venture. The West brothers seem like genuine sim fans who > really care about what they're producing. > > So why so negative? >

Oh, I'm sure it's very true! I also think the West brothers have a lot of talent and genuinely want to make the best sim out there but lets be honest, in 12 months we've seen little to nothing new. And as far as a 2001 release goes? Well, I doubt it. How long can they spend making this before they give up? I'd love a great game but everyone as too high hopes for this. Every game promises great things but usually compromises in the end. From a game with such slow development and nothing but promises so far I don't see what all the hype is about (yet). That's all.

Wasn't a demo promised aaaages ago? That's the point. I don't care if a demo doesn't come out if it's not promised but it was IIRC. I'm only expecting what the developers are promising and I haven't seen any yet after quite a wait. I don't expect it to be finished but i expected to know a bit more now than I did 12 months ago and I haven't really. Wosco <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8Qbp6.1783$[email hidden]... > When EA's Madden 2001 was coming out, did you get a demo a year inadvance? > Did you get 3 decent length videos showing the gameplay? I believe that > game was released, so why are you so negative towards WSC. I think YOUare > expecting too much from the developers...They are working on developing a > game instead of giving YOU lots of things to prove that it exists...howcan > anyone be that cruel! (that was sarcastic) You normally don't hear abouta > game until late in development...this is a game that has been revealedvery > early on...don't strip the developers of their respect just because they > told you they were making a game early on. > > Since you are so heavily held in your views, would you care to make awager

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> concerning the release of this game? > > JB > > "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:983ade$oj5$[email hidden]... > > World Sports Cars... > > An imaginary sim which RASer's believe will revolutionise the industry > > > > Ok, enough of the sarcasm. > > So far after more than a year of promise after promise we still have no > more > > than a few screenshots of this sim. It claims to have this that and the > > other thing and to have rolling videos and demo's showing all it's > > capabilities but so far has produced nothing. > > The still-lives look promising but chances are they are from an intro or > > something judging by the nature of how they are taken > > i.e. empty tracks, cars parked in strange places, 1 nice view into the > > cockpit. > > > > If this ever does materialise into something and these are actual

gameplay

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> > secrets we will need a super computer to play it, but since it's not > likely > > to be ready before 2015 then we should have those computers by then. > > > > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it > will), > > it will disappoint some. > > > > I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for this > game > > but nothing's proven after almost a year. > > > > > > Lou Moran <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > --Haven't been here in a while and N4 has clouded my mind since I > > > first heard about it years ago. > > > > > > --What is WSC? > > > > > > -- > > > Member of the Nondeterministic Football League > > > > > >

Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vkhp6.3288$[email hidden]...

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> GraDee....... > > As I read your post, I was struck with the thought that it would have been > nice for you to let us know the depth of your credentials, re: creating a > racing sim from scratch. Could you do that? If you have no background in > pc-based game creation, racing sim or no racing sim...maybe you could tell > us about the track graphics editing you do? Or, maybe the sound editing

you > do? Hey, hang on now a minute!! Lets not get into a flame war. My track graphic editing it was formerly on GP2.com which has now disappeared and a certain amount of MGPRS2 editing which probably isn't around any longer as both sims and sites have dyed out. I did a BTCC carset from scratch for GP2 with the help of another doing the cartage and team performances, numerous 1997-98 cars. i also was strongly involved in Track editing for GP2, I didn't relase anything other than some track updates, I was just there to do bits and pieces to help some others (beta testing, etc,etc, etc...) So I did something just to let you know. Since then I've moved on to spend more time drving than editing admittedly but it's not like I'm a scrounge. I do not however have any credentials for making a sim nor do you or most of the people here. I wasn't attacking the West brothers, I have no doubt they are hidden away working like crazy to produce this great sim. I just don't think it'll fulfil all the hype if it is ever released. There are lots of promises made but we've seen nothing yet. A demo promised a long time ago will not be available for a long time to come. There are plenty of lovely features that we hear about which are great but so far we have only been told that they will be in the final product. So they are merely on the TO DO list and we haven't seen that they will be included. In 12 months we've only seen a few new screenshots which due to their nature give me this niggly feeling they are not of gameplay but I may be wrong on that. The reason for the expectations for this sim is that the West Brothers came to the public, announced what they *want* to make and asked what everyone wanted in it. Now everyone thinks that it will be made exactly as the West's wanted and that all their ideas will be there... reality check guys... The Wests will do their very best I' sure but they won't included everything or the physics may not be a advanced as they *want* them to be. Every game developer *wants* their game to have great physics but look what some have churned out!! We just have to be realistic, remember GP3? All the expectations for features that were never going to be added and what happened when everyone bought the game? These features that were only rumours from newsboards were not there, yet everything Crammond himself promised was there, and more! > And.....just to refresh your memory.....N4 was some 18 months late...maybe > longer, I lost count waiting for it actually. And, I think Papy has about > 40 employees (down from the 80 or so that created N2 and GPL). The West > brothers....are a "team of two." I wondered if that had an impact on your > thinking? Ys it did, which is probably the reason for such a lenghty delay, but the rumours were we'd be playing WSC by now, it's nowhere near completement. Again, a promise that hasn't come true. So why the hype? > Also...I should think you'd be interested in this fact. Even though N4has > been released.....I think it would be a general concensus among RAS N4 > drivers.........that it is NOT completed. Would I be right there? And, I > doubt it will be completed even after the first official "patch" comes > out....or the next. Which is what I fear for WSC, no sim or infact no software that is released is ever 100% complete which is something that would kill WSC. I'm just thinking along the lines of GP3 and what happened to that. > What this racing sim community could use most.....is a "universal" > sim...with an open code. I believe N4 has the potential to become > that.....with some changes in the code...and a bit of "influence peddling" > on Papy's part. I know WSC has the potential to become just that. I also > believe.....Chris and Tony have that in mind! Um, not sure where you're going with that. Game Developers are there to make money, either for luxury yachts to to scrape a day old loaf of bread.. they do it for the money... an "open" game is a dream. > To Chris and Tony West......just keep on pluggin' away guys.....we're all > behind you (well, most of us are behind you.....that is) No, we are ALL behind you... this is nothing personal! The guys seem great in waht they want to accomplish and how they are going about it.

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Waiting to release on both platforms at once? That's stupid... The revenue's from one would help pay for the other, and generate a desire for the product on the other platform. But, then again, George Lucas is making us wait for 5 years or more to get the first 3 Star Wars movies on DVD because he wants to deliver all 7 (or whatever) movies at the same time. Almost half haven't even been filmed yet. Kiss my ass George. -Larry "Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:18:41 -0500, Lou Moran <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:31:38 -0000, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote > >wonderful things about sparkplugs: > > > > > >>It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it

will), > >>it will disappoint some. > >> > >>I'm hope so much that I'm proved wrong but so much is claimed for thisgame

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> >>but nothing's proven after almost a year. > > > >Thanks. I actually did know wbout this... I remember the screenshots. > >I am afraid you might be right, this looks a lot like vaporware > > They're driving their own sim, a PS2 conversion is being made, new > tracks are being made, so why shouldn't this ever be released in any > form? > > Although the PS2 team is having a tough time ofcourse, this game will > see the public light, no doubt. The problem is they want to release > both platform versions, and I think that will be the main reason for > any delays. IIRC, a demo is planned for september. > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ > Car simulation: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

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**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** Yeah, like Blizzards in Virginia. If you live here, you know what I'm talking about... -Larry > Hype is inversely proportional to outcome. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Aha, I see :) "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > AFAIK, GPL was 40K worldwide > > UK pre-Xmas sales for Gp3 were 70k. > > Shipout over Europe for Gp3 was IIRC, about 250k > > > ? > > Z.

GraDee wrote: > Um, not sure where you're going with that. Game Developers are there to make > money, either for luxury yachts to to scrape a day old loaf of bread.. they > do it for the money... an "open" game is a dream. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000! No dream, as open as you can get...and made by M$ :). Cheers Gerry

400,000 is generally referenced as a "well selling game". It differs from publisher to publisher, and it also depends on how much they spent promoting it. Cheers, Schumi "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ltup6.8745$[email hidden]... > On the same subject, does anyone know what can be considered good salesfor > a racing sim? We've all read that GPL sold 40,000 copies, but then I read > that GP3, which is considered a commercial success has sold 70,000 copies > which doesn't seem a lot more to me. > > Then I read somwhere else how POD had sold over 1 million copies. I know > that some publishers are prone to vast exaggeration with sales figures,and > maybe Ubisoft did this with POD. Obviously arcade racers are more popular > than sims, but GP3 is one of those titles that i'd expect to appeals toboth > player types. > > Then to confuse things even more, I read on www.avault.com that less than1% > of PC titles sell over 50,000 copies. > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GJrp6.522574$[email hidden]... > > GPL came out a few months before Speedvision, here in the States,found > > sucess by > > running a restored version of Grand Prix with James Garner.IF....Sierra

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> > had merely > > taken the GPL intro video and made a short TV comercial with it....Sales > > would > > have been much higher. (although returns probably would have too.) A > > missed > > opportunity. > > dave henrie > > > > > >

400,000 is generally referenced as a "well selling game". It differs from publisher to publisher, and it also depends on how much they spent promoting it. Cheers, Schumi > On the same subject, does anyone know what can be considered good sales for > a racing sim? We've all read that GPL sold 40,000 copies, but then I read > that GP3, which is considered a commercial success has sold 70,000 copies > which doesn't seem a lot more to me. > Then I read somwhere else how POD had sold over 1 million copies. I know > that some publishers are prone to vast exaggeration with sales figures, and > maybe Ubisoft did this with POD. Obviously arcade racers are more popular > than sims, but GP3 is one of those titles that i'd expect to appeals to both > player types. > Then to confuse things even more, I read on www.avault.com that less than 1% > of PC titles sell over 50,000 copies. > > GPL came out a few months before Speedvision, here in the States, found > > sucess by > > running a restored version of Grand Prix with James Garner. IF....Sierra

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> > had merely > > taken the GPL intro video and made a short TV comercial with it....Sales > > would > > have been much higher. (although returns probably would have too.) A > > missed > > opportunity. > > dave henrie

the only hype has been in this news group GraDee. The game has been in development for 4 years and the only hold up at the moment is empires desire to release ps2 and pc versions at the same time. AFAIK the game is almost done, code wise. Still some art to be finished. shane GraDee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:985u8s$pqu$[email hidden]...

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> > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > GraDee wrote: > > > > > It's just a wish but if it ever appears on shelves (which I doubt it > will), > > > it will disappoint some. > > > > When you say "which I doubt it will" is that just purely based on there > > being no demo yet? Because the video looked real enough to me. > > > > Plus everything I've read leads me to believe WSC is a serious > > commercial venture. The West brothers seem like genuine sim fans who > > really care about what they're producing. > > > > So why so negative? > > > > Oh, I'm sure it's very true! I also think the West brothers have a lot of > talent and genuinely want to make the best sim out there but lets be

honest, > in 12 months we've seen little to nothing new. And as far as a 2001release

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> goes? Well, I doubt it. > How long can they spend making this before they give up? > > I'd love a great game but everyone as too high hopes for this. > Every game promises great things but usually compromises in the end. > From a game with such slow development and nothing but promises so far I > don't see what all the hype is about (yet). > That's all. > >

In article <Vkhp6.3288$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: >PS: I drove WSC at E3 last year........it wasn't a "fake" movie. And....it >was mind-numbingly awesome! If the price tag where $500 big ones for the >retail "box"......I'd still wait in line all day to buy it....probably still >buy 4 or 5 of them too. You've GOT to be kidding... You'd buy 4 or 5 copies at $500 each? Must be nice to have that kind of disposable income to spend on a GAME... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Almost half haven't even been filmed yet. > > Kiss my ass George. > > -Larry Principle photography on Episode II is either done or close to it. dave henrie ps...there are plenty of Star Wars DVD's...in Warezville.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <Vkhp6.3288$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >PS: I drove WSC at E3 last year........it wasn't a "fake" movie.And....it > >was mind-numbingly awesome! If the price tag where $500 big ones for the > >retail "box"......I'd still wait in line all day to buy it....probablystill > >buy 4 or 5 of them too. > > You've GOT to be kidding... You'd buy 4 or 5 copies at $500 each? Mustbe > nice to have that kind of disposable income to spend on a GAME... > > Eldred How much did that K6 cost you when you upgraded for GPL? :) If we added up what we've spent to play GAMES, we could probaly buy a 3rd world country or two.... dave henrie

I own a third-world country. It's not the purchase price that gets you it's those damn annual maintenance fees ;). -- Joe Marques "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UoAp6.524637$[email hidden]... > How much did that K6 cost you when you upgraded for GPL? :) > If we added up what we've spent to play GAMES, we could probaly buy a > 3rd world country or two.... > dave henrie > >

Tom, I have a great bridge forsale & if you do not like bridges I have some fantastic land to sell you in Florida.. What'chya Think?? <G> A Smilling Thom_j. | In article <Vkhp6.3288$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" | <[email hidden]> writes: | | >PS: I drove WSC at E3 last year........it wasn't a "fake" movie.And....it | >was mind-numbingly awesome! If the price tag where $500 big ones for the | >retail "box"......I'd still wait in line all day to buy it....probablystill | >buy 4 or 5 of them too.

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote: >On the same subject, does anyone know what can be considered good sales for >a racing sim? We've all read that GPL sold 40,000 copies, but then I read >that GP3, which is considered a commercial success has sold 70,000 copies >which doesn't seem a lot more to me. If you start making money with the 40,001 copy sold, it makes a huge difference. :) But with all the talk about GPL being a commerical disaster, I would have expected the difference in sales to be much greater. >Then I read somwhere else how POD had sold over 1 million copies. I know >that some publishers are prone to vast exaggeration with sales figures, and >maybe Ubisoft did this with POD. Obviously arcade racers are more popular >than sims, but GP3 is one of those titles that i'd expect to appeals to both >player types. Wasn't POD bundled with 3D cards? I wonder if this kind of sales is counted in those statistics. As you know, GPL just appeared on the cover-CD of a games mag. Does this count as, say, 20,000 more copies sold? -- Wolfgang Prei� / Spam me and bear the consequences! / [email hidden] / http://www.wopr.handshake.de/

Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > GraDee wrote: > > > Um, not sure where you're going with that. Game Developers are there tomake > > money, either for luxury yachts to to scrape a day old loaf of bread..they > > do it for the money... an "open" game is a dream. > > Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000! No dream, as open as you can get...and > made by M$ :). > I suppose it won't work to say Microsoft have enough money and can afford to do it? :-)

In article <985u8s$pqu$[email hidden]>, GraDee <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'd love a great game but everyone as too high hopes for this. Three things keep me on the edge of my seat about WSC: - Physics - Open, pluggable physics model - West Bros. are interested in doing a Linux *client* Cheers, Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <[email hidden]>, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >GraDee wrote: > >> Um, not sure where you're going with that. Game Developers are there to make >> money, either for luxury yachts to to scrape a day old loaf of bread.. they >> do it for the money... an "open" game is a dream. > >Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000! No dream, as open as you can get...and >made by M$ :).

Or take a look at flightgear.org. People creating a commercial-quality flight sim for the love of flying planes. Great. FS2K might be open, but it's a very bad fps-wise, no matter what kind of hardware you throw at it. Also, it�s (obviously) limited to the Windows platform. Oh, you say no source code available? Not exactly "open" by any stretch of the imagination. Cheers, uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GnuPG Fingerprint: 2093 20B8 B861 9358 A356 B01A E145 9249 5D27 33EA PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

GraDee wrote:

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> > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > GraDee wrote: > > > > > Um, not sure where you're going with that. Game Developers are there to > make > > > money, either for luxury yachts to to scrape a day old loaf of bread.. > they > > > do it for the money... an "open" game is a dream. > > > > Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000! No dream, as open as you can get...and > > made by M$ :). > > > > I suppose it won't work to say Microsoft have enough money and can afford to > do it? :-)

So you think M$ are loosing money on FS2K then?

Uwe Schuerkamp wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > >GraDee wrote: > > > >> Um, not sure where you're going with that. Game Developers are there to make > >> money, either for luxury yachts to to scrape a day old loaf of bread.. they > >> do it for the money... an "open" game is a dream. > > > >Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000! No dream, as open as you can get...and > >made by M$ :). > > Or take a look at flightgear.org. People creating a > commercial-quality flight sim for the love of flying planes. > Great. FS2K might be open, but it's a very bad fps-wise, no > matter what kind of hardware you throw at it. Also, it´s > (obviously) limited to the Windows platform. Oh, you say no > source code available? Not exactly "open" by any stretch of the > imagination.

So apart from 3rd party aircraft, instruments, scenery, flight models, adventures and ATC, it's not open :). How much more open does it need to be? >

Gerry Aitken wrote:

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> > Uwe Schuerkamp wrote: > > > > Or take a look at flightgear.org. People creating a > > commercial-quality flight sim for the love of flying planes. > > Great. FS2K might be open, but it's a very bad fps-wise, no > > matter what kind of hardware you throw at it. Also, it�s > > (obviously) limited to the Windows platform. Oh, you say no > > source code available? Not exactly "open" by any stretch of the > > imagination. > > So apart from 3rd party aircraft, instruments, scenery, flight models, > adventures and ATC, it's not open :). How much more open does it need to > be?

You're talking open ARCHITECTURE, while Uwe is talking open SOURCE. Open architecture is good, but open source would be much better. -- Fester

Eldred.... Sim racing is not a "game" to me.....its my hobby. Its no more a "game" to me than golf could be called a "game" to a golfer. I also know many golfer's who've spent twice that much money on their golf clubs, shoes, clothing.....lessons, golf balls....then they spend $100 every weekend to go play! I have nearly $10K invested in computers, sound system, race seat (with vibration "actuators"....alone these cost more than many people's computer cost).....$500 dollars for a good racing sim would be "par" for the course.....and money well spent in my opinion. $40 dollars spent on some "arcade game masquerading as a racing simulation".....was too much to pay....we've all done it and been pissed about it later. I guarantee you that if someone had the balls to charge $500 for a racing simulation....it would be an awesome racing simulation....I wouldn't bat an eye to buy WSC if that's what it ended up costing. It won't....but just making a point with you. You should know that there's lots of wealthy people....who love racing as much as we do. They are just now finding out about this "secret" we've been keeping from them.....and they don't hesitate to spend money on something they like to do. I know two guys....both are having full-size Winston Cup style cockpits made for them....for their dens. And they are putting in "plasma screens".....where the windshields should go....at $40K each! Tom

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JL0q6.10733$[email hidden]... > Eldred. I guarantee you > that if someone had the balls to charge $500 for a racing simulation....it > would be an awesome racing simulation....I wouldn't bat an eye to buy WSCif > that's what it ended up costing. It won't....but just making a point with > you. Wasn't there a civilian flight sim that cost hundreds of dollars? I've been out of the FS loop for a while so pardon me if I'm off base...I seem to remember reading about some hugely expensive title that had finally undergone a large price reduction. I AM 100% sure there are some folks who would pay $500 for a top notch sim. But that # is only a tiny fraction of the even the gpl crowd. dave henrie

In article <JL0q6.10733$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Eldred.... > >Sim racing is not a "game" to me.....its my hobby. Its no more a "game" to >me than golf could be called a "game" to a golfer. I also know many >golfer's who've spent twice that much money on their golf clubs, shoes, >clothing.....lessons, golf balls....then they spend $100 every weekend to go >play! I have nearly $10K invested in computers, sound system, race seat >(with vibration "actuators"....alone these cost more than many people's >computer cost).....$500 dollars for a good racing sim would be "par" for the >course.....and money well spent in my opinion. $40 dollars spent on some >"arcade game masquerading as a racing simulation".....was too much to >pay....we've all done it and been pissed about it later. I guarantee you >that if someone had the balls to charge $500 for a racing simulation....it >would be an awesome racing simulation....I wouldn't bat an eye to buy WSC if >that's what it ended up costing. It won't....but just making a point with >you. > >You should know that there's lots of wealthy people....who love racing as >much as we do. They are just now finding out about this "secret" we've been >keeping from them.....and they don't hesitate to spend money on something >they like to do. I know two guys....both are having full-size Winston Cup >style cockpits made for them....for their dens. And they are putting in >"plasma screens".....where the windshields should go....at $40K each! > >Tom

Dude, if I had THAT kind of money, I sure wouldn't be spending it on sims. I'd be doing it for REAL...<G> I can't imagine spending more for the plasma screen than my parents paid for their HOUSE...<shrug> Like I said - must be nice to have that kind of money. I wouldn't know - I'll never have it... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in <[email hidden]>:

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>Dude, if I had THAT kind of money, I sure wouldn't be spending it on >sims. I'd be doing it for REAL...<G> I can't imagine spending more for >the plasma screen than my parents paid for their HOUSE...<shrug> >Like I said - must be nice to have that kind of money. I wouldn't know >- I'll never have it... > >Eldred

Plasma screens? considering they only go for about �8k for the 50" widescreen, the largest avalible..... Or they could spend �5-6 on a great data projector and screen..... They're either idiots, or you're lying. Z. -- Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > Wasn't there a civilian flight sim that cost hundreds of dollars? I've > been out > of the FS loop for a while so pardon me if I'm off base...I seem to remember > reading > about some hugely expensive title that had finally undergone a large price > reduction.

That would be X-Plane. Now $39.95 and worth every penny. :-) -- Fester

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Zonky) writes:

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>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in ><[email hidden]>: > > >>Dude, if I had THAT kind of money, I sure wouldn't be spending it on >>sims. I'd be doing it for REAL...<G> I can't imagine spending more for >>the plasma screen than my parents paid for their HOUSE...<shrug> >>Like I said - must be nice to have that kind of money. I wouldn't know >>- I'll never have it... >> >>Eldred > >Plasma screens? > >considering they only go for about �8k for the 50" widescreen, the largest >avalible..... > >Or they could spend �5-6 on a great data projector and screen..... > > >They're either idiots, or you're lying. >

What? What am I lying about? You obviously didn't read Tom's response. He mentioned that he knew people who spent $40K for a plasma screen as the windshield in their Winston Cup simulators. My parents paid $32K for their house. So, my statement still stands. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> writes: >Waiting to release on both platforms at once? That's stupid... The >revenue's from one would help pay for the other, and generate a desire for >the product on the other platform. > But then, you'd have to listen to the PS/2 owners bitching because it takes so long to port it over...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <UoAp6.524637$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > How much did that K6 cost you when you upgraded for GPL? :) >If we added up what we've spent to play GAMES, we could probaly buy a >3rd world country or two.... >dave henrie About $140. I have to build my equipment one piece at a time - I can't afford to do it all at once... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>What? What am I lying about? You obviously didn't read Tom's response. He >mentioned that he knew people who spent $40K for a plasma screen as the >windshield in their Winston Cup simulators. My parents paid $32K for their >house. So, my statement still stands. I don't believe he was referring to you, but to Tom.. Andre

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>Eldred >-- >Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.