Well,
After some people on this forum confirmed my suspicions about the high CPU
utilization the MS FF USB was causing, I decided to run a few tests. I have
two PC's and I've confirmed my results with both PC's. It seems the wheel is
not to blame after all. The problem lies with the MS Sidewinder Game
Controller Software 4.0. That is the version made for MS USB devices.
If you install a MSFF USB device on a clean install of Win98SE, it will show
up as an HID device. The downside is you cannot configure all the settings
(maybe there are some registry hacks I'm not aware of) like FF, centering
strength, button mapping etc.. The upside is that it works great in most
newer games and it doesn't cause that 20-30% hit you get from their crummy
4.0 software. I tested it on Nascar Heat, Nascar 4 and GP3.
Observations:
On average FF enabled in any game caused a very small hit in performance
(e.g. in NH, enabling FF lost about 3-4 FPS). That is to be expected.
However, when using the MS 4.0 software, every game took a much larger hit.
NH lost about 10 FPS, Nascar 4 lost about 20FPS and GP3 gained about 20% CPU
Occupancy. These losses are all compared to using FF without the 4.0
software!!
I realize removing the 4.0 software isn't a great solution but at least I
can now use FF without the penalty. Since most games I use are newer and
support split axis and button mapping, the lack of the 4.0 software doesn't
cause me many problems. I'd prefer to have working software but not at the
cost of 25-30% of the system's performance.
Hopefully some other brave souls will tinker and post their results for
everyone to compare.
Michael M
I don't have this wheel anymore, since I took it back for a refund after
getting the FF slowdown in GPL and Sports Car GT. One thing I can
definitely remember though, is that turning off FF fixed the slowdown, even
though Game Controller 4 was still running.
For instance, in Sports Car GT, you can turn FF on and off in the menus, and
turning it off completely fixed the slowdown for me.
*I'm not saying you're wrong by the way*, since I never tried the wheel
without the v4 software running. Obviously though, it's not *just* having
Game Controller 4 running that causes the slowdown, it's having it running
*with* FF turned on. I wish I still had my wheel so I could try FF without
the v4 software. I might consider getting another one, since without this
problem, in my opinion this would be comfortably the best FF wheel. Can you
tell me how much trouble it is using the wheel without the MS software?
Thanks.
"Jeneral" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XMBq6.9708$[email hidden]...
> Well,
> After some people on this forum confirmed my suspicions about the high CPU
> utilization the MS FF USB was causing, I decided to run a few tests. Ihave
> two PC's and I've confirmed my results with both PC's. It seems the wheelis
> not to blame after all. The problem lies with the MS Sidewinder Game
> Controller Software 4.0. That is the version made for MS USB devices.
>
> If you install a MSFF USB device on a clean install of Win98SE, it willshow
hit.
> NH lost about 10 FPS, Nascar 4 lost about 20FPS and GP3 gained about 20%CPU
> Occupancy. These losses are all compared to using FF without the 4.0
> software!!
>
> I realize removing the 4.0 software isn't a great solution but at least I
> can now use FF without the penalty. Since most games I use are newer and
> support split axis and button mapping, the lack of the 4.0 softwaredoesn't
Quoted text (10 lines)
> up as an HID device. The downside is you cannot configure all the settings > (maybe there are some registry hacks I'm not aware of) like FF, centering > strength, button mapping etc.. The upside is that it works great in most > newer games and it doesn't cause that 20-30% hit you get from their crummy > 4.0 software. I tested it on Nascar Heat, Nascar 4 and GP3. > > Observations: > On average FF enabled in any game caused a very small hit in performance > (e.g. in NH, enabling FF lost about 3-4 FPS). That is to be expected. > However, when using the MS 4.0 software, every game took a much largerQuoted text (11 lines)
> cause me many problems. I'd prefer to have working software but not at the > cost of 25-30% of the system's performance. > > Hopefully some other brave souls will tinker and post their results for > everyone to compare. > > Michael M > > > >Heaven forbid MS actually continues to improve this software. Short of the
.02 update to the 3.0 software years ago, it's been "Take it or leave it" :(
The hardware is pretty darned good, and that's what really makes this a
shame.
The pedals of the MSFFW are, IMHO, the best in the business.
They really need to do something about this damned SideWinder Software.
Don't even get me started on Windows 2000 :)
-Larry
"Jeneral" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:XMBq6.9708$[email hidden]...
> Well,
> After some people on this forum confirmed my suspicions about the high CPU
> utilization the MS FF USB was causing, I decided to run a few tests. Ihave
> two PC's and I've confirmed my results with both PC's. It seems the wheelis
> not to blame after all. The problem lies with the MS Sidewinder Game
> Controller Software 4.0. That is the version made for MS USB devices.
>
> If you install a MSFF USB device on a clean install of Win98SE, it willshow
hit.
> NH lost about 10 FPS, Nascar 4 lost about 20FPS and GP3 gained about 20%CPU
> Occupancy. These losses are all compared to using FF without the 4.0
> software!!
>
> I realize removing the 4.0 software isn't a great solution but at least I
> can now use FF without the penalty. Since most games I use are newer and
> support split axis and button mapping, the lack of the 4.0 softwaredoesn't
Quoted text (10 lines)
> up as an HID device. The downside is you cannot configure all the settings > (maybe there are some registry hacks I'm not aware of) like FF, centering > strength, button mapping etc.. The upside is that it works great in most > newer games and it doesn't cause that 20-30% hit you get from their crummy > 4.0 software. I tested it on Nascar Heat, Nascar 4 and GP3. > > Observations: > On average FF enabled in any game caused a very small hit in performance > (e.g. in NH, enabling FF lost about 3-4 FPS). That is to be expected. > However, when using the MS 4.0 software, every game took a much largerQuoted text (11 lines)
> cause me many problems. I'd prefer to have working software but not at the > cost of 25-30% of the system's performance. > > Hopefully some other brave souls will tinker and post their results for > everyone to compare. > > Michael M > > > >
anyone know how to install the the driver without the 4.0 sotware?
>
>Hopefully some other brave souls will tinker and post their results for
>everyone to compare.
>
>Michael M
I hope so too, as I almost picked up that hardware. Still don't know
if I should, or go with the Thrustmaster Pro Digital. If I can't turn
off FF, then I guess I will go with the TPG.
Good post Michael!!
-pw
That's with the USB wheel? Try the same test with GPL or Sports Car GT. It
completely ruins GPL.
"Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:98kqsi$[email hidden]...
The
got
> such an old ISA soundblaster in it. My new system's only got 1 ISA slot,and
> I need that for a 2nd printer port to support my cd writer, so I'll be
> trying the on-board sound to begin with, before I shell out for a PCIcard.
>
> R.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> x-no-archive: yes > > I'm not convinced. I am still running a K6-200, (my duron 750 arrives > today!!), and I did some tests last night with GP3. > > I found that I did get a bit of a hit from using FF, but not really very > much, and disabling the sidewinder software hardly made any difference.Quoted text (8 lines)
> small hit sustained from FF is well worth it to have the FF, so I'll take > it. I'll try it again, once my new system's up and running. > > My cpu occupancy went up by less than 5% when I enabled FF, and disabling > the sidewinder software made even less difference. I have a feeling it was > slightly lower, but it was very hard to tell. > > I wonder if it's some sort of compatability issue - my current system'sI think you mistook what I was trying to say. Actually, I may not have typed
it out as I intended. I'll try to summarize below:
- The 4.0 software is NOT needed to use this wheel in Win98 or Win2000 with
FF and split axis.
- If you plug in the USB wheel without the 4.0 software installed, the OS
will automatically set it up as: Steering X1, Throttle Y1, and Brake Y2. The
downside to this is you can't adjust the FF strength, the centering
strength, and a few other options.
- FF will be enabled by default without 4.0 software! Now you have to enable
it in the games. For games that don't support FF, I just hit the "Force"
button on the wheel to make it easier to handle.
- In most games, the 4.0 software appears to cause an additional performance
hit ON TOP of the normal FF hit. e.g. in Nascar Heat, I lose 4-5 FPS with FF
enabled and NO 4.0 software. With the 4.0 software, I lose 12-15 FPS and FF
enabled.
-Disabling the software does not appear to help. Only by removing it (it can
be removed in Win98, it CANNOT be removed in Win2000) will you see the
benefits.
Like I said, these were the observations I made on two BX based systems. BX
systems have USB 1.0 support. Some newer systems have USB 1.1; I'm not sure
if that helps or not. In both of my systems, removing the 4.0 software made
quite a difference. FF enabled in a game still cause a slight hit but not a
huge hit like with the 4.0 software. This problem seems to be consistent
with the fact that only MSFF USB wheel users are having problems with CPU
utilization. The gameport users use 3.02; they can't use 4.0.
Good luck to everyone and hopefully some other people can post their test
results for us to compare.
Michael M
P.S. Don't forget that if you have a slower video card, the CPU will have
extra cycles and as such, you won't notice the hit the system is taking when
enabling FF. I experienced this when I used my Voodoo 2. No matter what CPU
I used (450, 850) I always got 35 FPS in Nascar 4 (most details turned off).
It also didn't care which sidewinder software I had. In this case the 3D
card is the bottleneck and you won't notice the hit the 4.0 software causes.
As soon as I installed my GeForce 2 GTS in that system, man did I notice the
hit!
"Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:98kqsi$[email hidden]...
The
got
> such an old ISA soundblaster in it. My new system's only got 1 ISA slot,and
> I need that for a 2nd printer port to support my cd writer, so I'll be
> trying the on-board sound to begin with, before I shell out for a PCIcard.
it"
will
performance
> > > (e.g. in NH, enabling FF lost about 3-4 FPS). That is to be expected.
> > > However, when using the MS 4.0 software, every game took a much larger
> > hit.
> > > NH lost about 10 FPS, Nascar 4 lost about 20FPS and GP3 gained about20%
> > CPU
> > > Occupancy. These losses are all compared to using FF without the 4.0
> > > software!!
> > >
> > > I realize removing the 4.0 software isn't a great solution but atleast
> I
> > > can now use FF without the penalty. Since most games I use are newerand
for
