First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P
AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up for
some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses that
Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling with
the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me.
The great.
Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and
the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track
accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the ability
to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry, separate
and accurate car models, rubber build up and grip change, radio
communication with the pit crew, etc.).
The very good.
Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.
The Unknown:
Force Feedback
---------------------------------------------
Graphics:
No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how amazing
they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because it
runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic graphics
engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all
clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb.
Physics:
I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto simulators
can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a conclusion as
to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's taken
me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true potential of
this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are
FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the
opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to dance
on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1 sim
is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real life.
I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks) and
can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504. You
can download this at the http://www.bhmotorsports.com/ hot lap section if
you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The
accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
enables this. The tires start bitching and the car shakes as I approach the
edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the
feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The rear
end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or
controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). Exactly the
opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some
practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim
(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I can 4
wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1 car,
and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real life
driving techniques. I agree that there isn't cockpit movement in the default
cockpit view, but there is in cockpit view #2. Not a lot though, because it
wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and roll when
they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch and
roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup changes in
F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default setups
are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, and tire
temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two. One
very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as you get
close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 car would
feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very good
physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now (too
much grip).
Sound:
I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow on you.
No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under their
helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to you
what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of
that.
Weather:
Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important part of
F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather changes
during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at times.
You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the track.
A dry line forms as the race progresses.
Controller performance:
The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic. For
me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off
nonsense that some sims have.
UI:
Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very
quickly.
Multiplayer:
With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's.
Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody loves
online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six
quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who
either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely
ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
commit to a set time to race others.
Force Feedback:
I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have problems. The
optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may be
bugs with some controllers.
This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and
members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer
historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims. Otherwise,
F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannot be
considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs desperately
as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far. Now,
since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I expect the
majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very
reassuring.
David G Fisher
David G Fisher's favourable review of F1 Racing Championship
David G Fisher posted a largely positive review of F1 Racing Championship, acknowledging the AI needed patching but praising physics, tracks and force feedback. Andre Warringa and others agreed on AI and multiplayer problems, while some found the physics floaty compared with GPL. News of a patch due in mid-April was shared, and the long thread featured comparisons with GP3, F1CS and NASCAR 4.
Automated summary.
>My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
> wheel and broke it.
Well, are you going to make her pay for a new one :)
In article <vjQv6.400$[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...
Essentially sums up my experience with the sim. I too don't know
how so many people can critisise it to the extent that they do.
Some even claiming this is the worst piece of software they have
ever purchased.
I hope the AI patch comes out too. When I'm racing, the majority
of the time I'm hit by the AI is when I brake too early or too hard
and recent F1 events have shown an instance of two of what happens
when you brake unexpectedly. I've also had the AI turn in on me
when I've been infront of them and inside of them in a corner as
if I wasn't even there. Unsure if it's driver error being simulated
or just a negative aspect of the AI.
I like the way they pull over during a fast lap in warmup or qual,
but they generally pull over infront of me or slowdown in a way
that interrupts my fast lap.
The only beef I have with the sound is the changeup/changedown
in higher gears. My LWFF occassionally doesn't register a change
in gear prolly due to a dirty switch, but I don't like having to
look down at my wheel to see what gear I'm in because occassionally
there's no audible indication of a gear change. I find the incar
sound to be a decent representation of what I would expect to hear
inside a cockpit.
When I read that the car feels it's on a wheel located at the
centre of the car, I could understand why they felt that way.
Possibly due to the front wheels not graphically showing as sharp
a turn as the car was making.
I don't know how accurately Imola is modelled, but I love lapping
it too. ;)
Cheers,
Rod.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> The great. > > Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and > the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track > accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the ability > to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry, separate > and accurate car models, rubber build up and grip change, radio > communication with the pit crew, etc.).What is a reasonable system to run F1RC satisfactorily?
Ben
David G Fisher wrote in message ...
>First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P
>
>AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up for
>some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundressesthat
graphics
>engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all
>clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb.
>
>Physics:
>
>I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about autosimulators
>can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a conclusionas
the
>opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some
>practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim
>(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I can 4
>wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1 car,
>and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real life
>driving techniques. I agree that there isn't cockpit movement in thedefault
>cockpit view, but there is in cockpit view #2. Not a lot though, because it
>wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and rollwhen
>they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch and
>roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
>1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
>enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup changes in
>F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the defaultsetups
>are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, and tire
>temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two. One
>very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as youget
>close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 carwould
you.
times.
The
>optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may be
>bugs with some controllers.
>
>This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and
>members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer
>historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims.Otherwise,
>F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannot be
>considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needsdesperately
>as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far.Now,
>since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I expectthe
Quoted text (26 lines)
>Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling with >the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me. > >The great. > >Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and >the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track >accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the ability >to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry, separate >and accurate car models, rubber build up and grip change, radio >communication with the pit crew, etc.). > >The very good. > >Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer. > >The Unknown: > >Force Feedback > >--------------------------------------------- >Graphics: > >No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how amazing >they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because it >runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantasticQuoted text (18 lines)
>to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's taken >me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true potential of >this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are >FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the >opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to dance >on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1 sim >is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff >(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real life. >I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks) and >can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504. You >can download this at the http://www.bhmotorsports.com/ hot lap section if >you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The >accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what >enables this. The tires start bitching and the car shakes as I approach the >edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the >feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The rear >end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or >controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). ExactlyQuoted text (7 lines)
>feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very good >physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now (too >much grip). > >Sound: > >I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow onQuoted text (10 lines)
>No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under their >helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to you >what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of >that. > >Weather: > >Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important part of >F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather changes >during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track atQuoted text (30 lines)
>You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the track. >A dry line forms as the race progresses. > >Controller performance: > >The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic. For >me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off >nonsense that some sims have. > >UI: > >Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very >quickly. > >Multiplayer: > >With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's. >Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody loves >online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of >cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online >racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six >quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who >either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely >ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot >commit to a set time to race others. > >Force Feedback: > >I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff >wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have problems.Quoted text (12 lines)
>majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very >reassuring. > >David G Fisher > > > > > > > >See, David, you shoot yourself in the foot with the "this is a Papy forum"
thing. I read your review with great interest, and I'm very pleased that you
like it. I asked you to give me a little help with the setups, trying to rid
the 'hovercraft/unicycle' feeling that I, and others have experienced
(example: The slow first gear turns at Monaco, the front of the car seems,
to me, to move "as one", not accurately IMO) but you didn't reply. As it
happens I like this game too - I like F1RS and F1RS2, and it cannot possibly
be denied that Ubisoft have a superb graphics engine, but, like most other
game released on a deadline, it has flaws (again, IMO). I'm sorry to say,
though, that your "me against the world" stance is most off-putting.
--
Colin
ICQ 25485061
David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:vjQv6.400$[email hidden]...
P450 and a TNT2 card should run it ok. You might have to turn down the draw
distance and some car detail.
David G Fisher
"Ben Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
ability
> >to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry,separate
amazing
taken
> >me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true potentialof
> >this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are
> >FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the
> >opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able todance
> >on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1sim
> >is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
> >(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real life.
> >I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks)and
> >can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504.You
> >can download this at the http://www.bhmotorsports.com/ hot lap section if
> >you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The
> >accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
> >enables this. The tires start bitching and the car shakes as I approachthe
4
> >wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1car,
> >and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real life
> >driving techniques. I agree that there isn't cockpit movement in the
> default
> >cockpit view, but there is in cockpit view #2. Not a lot though, becauseit
> >wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and roll
> when
> >they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitchand
> >roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
> >1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
> >enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup changesin
> >F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default
> setups
> >are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, andtire
> >temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two.One
> >very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as you
> get
> >close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 car
> would
> >feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a verygood
their
of
> >F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weatherchanges
> >during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at
> times.
> >You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of thetrack.
> >A dry line forms as the race progresses.
> >
> >Controller performance:
> >
> >The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic.For
loves
> >online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
> >cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
> >racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more thansix
> >quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with moronswho
> >either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or whopurposely
> >ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
> >commit to a set time to race others.
> >
> >Force Feedback:
> >
> >I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with myff
be
Quoted text (18 lines)
> What is a reasonable system to run F1RC satisfactorily? > > Ben > > David G Fisher wrote in message ... > >First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P > > > >AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up for > >some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses > that > >Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling with > >the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me. > > > >The great. > > > >Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and > >the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track > >accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and theQuoted text (15 lines)
> >and accurate car models, rubber build up and grip change, radio > >communication with the pit crew, etc.). > > > >The very good. > > > >Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer. > > > >The Unknown: > > > >Force Feedback > > > >--------------------------------------------- > >Graphics: > > > >No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen howQuoted text (13 lines)
> >they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because it > >runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic > graphics > >engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all > >clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb. > > > >Physics: > > > >I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto > simulators > >can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a conclusion > as > >to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It'sQuoted text (8 lines)
> >edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the > >feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The rear > >end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or > >controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). Exactly > the > >opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some > >practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim > >(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I canQuoted text (8 lines)
> >physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now (too > >much grip). > > > >Sound: > > > >I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow on > you. > >No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears underQuoted text (7 lines)
> >helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to you > >what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of > >that. > > > >Weather: > > > >Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important partQuoted text (12 lines)
> >me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off > >nonsense that some sims have. > > > >UI: > > > >Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very > >quickly. > > > >Multiplayer: > > > >With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's. > >Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. NobodyQuoted text (10 lines)
> >wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have problems. > The > >optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may be > >bugs with some controllers. > > > >This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and > >members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer > >historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims. > Otherwise, > >F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannotQuoted text (20 lines)
> >considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs > desperately > >as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far. > Now, > >since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I expect > the > >majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very > >reassuring. > > > >David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >No, I'll be paying for it. I'm always paying for something. :-)
David G Fisher
"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:BfRv6.467698$[email hidden]...
> >My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
> > wheel and broke it.
>
> Well, are you going to make her pay for a new one :)
>
>
> OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't see it anywhere
> yet.
Also, You said:
"My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it. Some say it
feels great...."
Was that the FF that felt great, or your head? 8-)
(Sorry....couldn't resist.)
Bert
My head felt better than my ears from the screaming which came before,
during, and after the hit. :-)
Can you copy and paste the post the post you replied to which contains the
line, "OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't see it
anywhere yet."
That post isn't showing up on my newsreader.
David G Fisher
you replied to so I can see it?
"BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
> > OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't see itanywhere
> > yet.
>
> Also, You said:
> "My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it. Somesay it
Quoted text (9 lines)
> feels great...." > > Was that the FF that felt great, or your head? 8-) > > (Sorry....couldn't resist.) > > Bert > >>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> The very good.
>
> Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.
The very bad.
Sound, Multiplayer and AI.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I probably screwed up in quoting your post. The question about where one can
find F1RC in the US was my question.....and it was in the same post as my
wise-guy comment about your head. 8-)
Sorry for the confusion.
So, where can I find it?
David G Fisher wrote:
--
Bert
Quoted text (29 lines)
> My head felt better than my ears from the screaming which came before, > during, and after the hit. :-) > > Can you copy and paste the post the post you replied to which contains the > line, "OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't see it > anywhere yet." > > That post isn't showing up on my newsreader. > > David G Fisher > > you replied to so I can see it? > "BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't see it > anywhere > > > yet. > > > > Also, You said: > > "My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it. Some > say it > > feels great...." > > > > Was that the FF that felt great, or your head? 8-) > > > > (Sorry....couldn't resist.) > > > > Bert > > > >On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me.
I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different
physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have
wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality
of the physics engine.
In the demo, you are not in expert mode because expert mode is not
available. Like I said, if you are expecting a lot of pitch and roll, then
you must be living 35 years in the past.
David G Fisher
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. > > I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different > physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have > wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality > of the physics engine.Here in the U.S., it isn't available yet and I don't know when it will be. I
always phone order European releases from www.gameplay.com
David G Fisher
"BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
> I probably screwed up in quoting your post. The question about where onecan
the
> > line, "OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't seeit
news:[email hidden]...
> > > > OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US? I don't see it
> > anywhere
> > > > yet.
> > >
> > > Also, You said:
> > > "My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it.Some
Quoted text (16 lines)
> find F1RC in the US was my question.....and it was in the same post as my > wise-guy comment about your head. 8-) > > Sorry for the confusion. > > So, where can I find it? > > > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > My head felt better than my ears from the screaming which came before, > > during, and after the hit. :-) > > > > Can you copy and paste the post the post you replied to which containsQuoted text (8 lines)
> > anywhere yet." > > > > That post isn't showing up on my newsreader. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > you replied to so I can see it? > > "BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in messageQuoted text (16 lines)
> > say it > > > feels great...." > > > > > > Was that the FF that felt great, or your head? 8-) > > > > > > (Sorry....couldn't resist.) > > > > > > Bert > > > > > > > > -- > Bert > > >>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> you must be living 35 years in the past.
Yeah, that was *so* subliminal by you.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I said what I did because GPL gives you so much cockpit movement due to the
soft suspensions of late '60's F1 cars. Modern day F1 cars are stiff as
hell. I don't even know if Jagg plays GPL regularly, but I'm sure he's
played it at least a bit, and understands what I was referring to.
David G Fisher
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:OvUv6.473946$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (18 lines)
> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > you must be living 35 years in the past. > > > Yeah, that was *so* subliminal by you. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >I said what I did because GPL gives you so much***pit movement due to the
soft suspensions of late '60's F1 cars. Modern day F1 cars are stiff as
hell. I don't even know if Jagg plays GPL regularly, but I'm sure he's
played it at least a bit, and understands what I was referring to.
David G Fisher
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > you must be living 35 years in the past. > Yeah, that was *so* subliminal by you. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:39:51 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>In the demo, you are not in expert mode because expert mode is not
>available. Like I said, if you are expecting a lot of pitch and roll, then
>you must be living 35 years in the past.
>
>David G Fisher
No, I'm not expecting pitch and roll. I'm just expecting it to give a
feeling of the road and not like I'm floating above the track. But, if
it is due to only the arcade mode being on in the demo then I will buy
F1RC and give it a chance at least.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:30:07 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>I said what I did because GPL gives you so much cockpit movement due to the
>soft suspensions of late '60's F1 cars. Modern day F1 cars are stiff as
>hell. I don't even know if Jagg plays GPL regularly, but I'm sure he's
>played it at least a bit, and understands what I was referring to.
>
>David G Fisher
Yea, I play GPL sometimes. I'm not a huge fan of it though because I
suck at it. :-)
[email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote:
> My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
> wheel and broke it.
Ask her what she did with that ice-pick we sent over. That thing was
expensive, could've almost hired an out of work KGB hitman for that
amount! ;->
I was quite impressed with the demo, but I couldn't get the steering to
feel "right"... same problem I had with GP2/3. The rest seemed pretty
promising though if, as you say, that was the lower-fi driving model.
Andrew McP
My sundresses aren't yours to bet. Certainly not the purple/yellow polka dot
one. ;-)
Nice review of F1RC... must get around to buying and trying that one for
myself some day.
Jan.
=---
David G Fisher wrote...
> <snip> I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses
> that Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon.
I've got an Act Labs Force RS and find that it misses shifts too. Perhaps
not a dirty switch?
Glenn
--
"It's easy to criticize from outside the cockpit".
-Murray Walker, 1993 Australian G.P.
"Rod Prince" <[email hidden]> wrote >My LWFF occassionally
doesn't register a change
> in gear prolly due to a dirty switch, but I don't like having to
> look down at my wheel to see what gear I'm in because occassionally
> there's no audible indication of a gear change.
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:13:11 GMT, Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote:
>Yea, I play GPL sometimes. I'm not a huge fan of it though because I
>suck at it. :-)
Allmost everybody here, including me, sucks at GPL, but that doesn't
mean we don't enjoy it :)
Andre
On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P
As you wish :)
The bad:
AI - as you said, it's bad and definately needs a fix
Multiplayer - With 4 cars or less, it's good, any more cars and
multiplayer becomes unplayable. Why's that? More than 2 years ago a
certain racing sim came out with rock-solid 20-car multiplayer..
Why-o-why can't GP3, F1CS and F1RC have good multiplayer?
Contrary to you I do like full grid races with some fast guys and some
backmarkers.
Force feedback: Not even comparable to the ff of GPL, N4 or Nascar
Heat (with Slot's ff tweaks), far below GP3's ff, it's allmost on the
same level as F1CS' ff.
And that means -bad-.
Allthough I don't enjoy GP3 for numerous reasons, one thing I like
about it is that you can feel if you're on the limit because of the
reasonable good ff.
And that's my biggest problem with F1RC: you hardly feel when you're
on the limit, you get no cues from ff or the sound.
The good stuff:
The rest. Graphics are amazing, hotlapping is major fun, setup options
are fantastic, and numerous details on the track give the whole a
complete f1-experience.
I agree with you David, we've got a diamond of a racing sim here, ubi
just have to release a patch which improves the AI, multiplayer and ff
problems and it would be damn-near perfect imho.
Andre
PS Jan, when will I get that dress I lend you back??
The purple/yellow polka dot one I mean :)
Then why are people with 1.xGhz AMD systems saying the game is too
slow???
Also does F1RC have the current tracks?
--
[email hidden]
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:g7Sv6.617$[email hidden]...
> P450 and a TNT2 card should run it ok. You might have to turn down the
draw
> distance and some car detail.
>
> David G Fisher
>
>
> "Ben Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > What is a reasonable system to run F1RC satisfactorily?
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > David G Fisher wrote in message ...
> > >First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P
> > >
> > >AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up
for
> > >some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses
> > that
> > >Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling
with
> > >the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me.
> > >
> > >The great.
> > >
> > >Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options,
and
> > >the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience
(track
> > >accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the
> ability
> > >to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry,
> separate
> > >and accurate car models, rubber build up and grip change, radio
> > >communication with the pit crew, etc.).
> > >
> > >The very good.
> > >
> > >Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.
> > >
> > >The Unknown:
> > >
> > >Force Feedback
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------
> > >Graphics:
> > >
> > >No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how
> amazing
> > >they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because
it
> > >runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic
> > graphics
> > >engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all
> > >clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb.
> > >
> > >Physics:
> > >
> > >I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto
> > simulators
> > >can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a
conclusion
> > as
> > >to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's
> taken
> > >me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true
potential
> of
> > >this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are
> > >FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the
> > >opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to
> dance
> > >on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1
> sim
> > >is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
> > >(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real
life.
> > >I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks)
> and
> > >can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504.
> You
> > >can download this at the http://www.bhmotorsports.com/ hot lap section
if
> > >you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The
> > >accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
> > >enables this. The tires start bitching and the car shakes as I approach
> the
> > >edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the
> > >feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The
rear
> > >end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or
> > >controller changes may help those who insist that it does this).
Exactly
> > the
> > >opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some
> > >practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim
> > >(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I
can
> 4
> > >wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1
> car,
> > >and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real
life
> > >driving techniques. I agree that there isn't cockpit movement in the
> > default
> > >cockpit view, but there is in cockpit view #2. Not a lot though,
because
> it
> > >wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and roll
> > when
> > >they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch
> and
> > >roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
> > >1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
> > >enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup
changes
> in
> > >F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default
> > setups
> > >are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, and
> tire
> > >temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two.
> One
> > >very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as
you
> > get
> > >close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 car
> > would
> > >feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very
> good
> > >physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now
(too
> > >much grip).
> > >
> > >Sound:
> > >
> > >I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow on
> > you.
> > >No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under
> their
> > >helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to
you
> > >what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of
> > >that.
> > >
> > >Weather:
> > >
> > >Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important
part
> of
> > >F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather
> changes
> > >during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at
> > times.
> > >You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the
> track.
> > >A dry line forms as the race progresses.
> > >
> > >Controller performance:
> > >
> > >The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic.
> For
> > >me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off
> > >nonsense that some sims have.
> > >
> > >UI:
> > >
> > >Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very
> > >quickly.
> > >
> > >Multiplayer:
> > >
> > >With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's.
> > >Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody
> loves
> > >online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number
of
> > >cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of
online
> > >racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than
> six
> > >quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons
> who
> > >either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who
> purposely
> > >ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
> > >commit to a set time to race others.
> > >
> > >Force Feedback:
> > >
> > >I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my
> ff
> > >wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have
problems.
> > The
> > >optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may
be
> > >bugs with some controllers.
> > >
> > >This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and
> > >members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer
> > >historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims.
> > Otherwise,
> > >F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannot
> be
> > >considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs
> > desperately
> > >as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far.
> > Now,
> > >since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I
expect
> > the
> > >majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very
> > >reassuring.
> > >
> > >David G Fisher
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
The patch is coming the patch is coming :)
http://www.simracingnews.com
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (42 lines)
| On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> | wrote: | | >First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P | | As you wish :) | | The bad: | | AI - as you said, it's bad and definately needs a fix | | Multiplayer - With 4 cars or less, it's good, any more cars and | multiplayer becomes unplayable. Why's that? More than 2 years ago a | certain racing sim came out with rock-solid 20-car multiplayer.. | Why-o-why can't GP3, F1CS and F1RC have good multiplayer? | Contrary to you I do like full grid races with some fast guys and some | backmarkers. | | Force feedback: Not even comparable to the ff of GPL, N4 or Nascar | Heat (with Slot's ff tweaks), far below GP3's ff, it's allmost on the | same level as F1CS' ff. | And that means -bad-. | Allthough I don't enjoy GP3 for numerous reasons, one thing I like | about it is that you can feel if you're on the limit because of the | reasonable good ff. | And that's my biggest problem with F1RC: you hardly feel when you're | on the limit, you get no cues from ff or the sound. | | The good stuff: | | The rest. Graphics are amazing, hotlapping is major fun, setup options | are fantastic, and numerous details on the track give the whole a | complete f1-experience. | | I agree with you David, we've got a diamond of a racing sim here, ubi | just have to release a patch which improves the AI, multiplayer and ff | problems and it would be damn-near perfect imho. | | Andre | | PS Jan, when will I get that dress I lend you back?? | The purple/yellow polka dot one I mean :)On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:13:15 +0100, "Ashley McConnell"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>The patch is coming the patch is coming :)
>
>http://www.simracingnews.com
Allrighty, April 16th, good news!!
Andre
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:39:51 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
FWIW, I never "expect" a lot of pitch and roll in any given
simulation. I do, though, DEPEND on seeing visual pitch and roll (AND
yaw) cues to "fill in the blanks" due to the lack of REAL-LIFE,
seat-of-the-pants (or small of the back) motion cues that a REAL F1
driver benefits from. A Force Feedback wheel may add a *little* to a
game for some people, but until the developers can find some way to
convey acceleration, deceleration, and lateral forces directly to my
cortex, I (and all of you) are forced to rely on our eyes and ears.
If a cockpit is static in a game, then we're being deprived of some
vitally-important cues. If the sounds come in on-cue, rather than in
response to what the physics engine is really doing, then we're being
deprived of some vitally-important cues.
At this point in the game, even the best implementations of Force
Feedback have to "fake" a certain amount of information to make for a
convincing and informative experience with existing Force Feedback
wheels. This is perfectly acceptable, because it reflects a
limitation of the hardware and the medium being used.
Similarly, "lively" cockpits that convey GOOD pitch, yaw, and roll
information in a simulation is equally acceptable. In fact, it's
critically important, as far as I'm concerned -- far more important
than how a game implements Force Feedback, in my book.
As for an modern F1 car not having the same amount of suspension
travel as a 1967 Grand Prix machine, that may be true -- but I can
GUARANTEE you that even with modern suspensions, helmets, head
restraints, and the HANS device, Michael Schumacher's neck has
virtually the SAME amount of travel and the same number of degrees of
freedom as Jim Clark -- or pretty darn close, anyway. So maybe the
car and the cockpit doesn't see as much movement, but we all can see
with our own eyes just how much a modern F1 driver's head moves around
in the cockpit. So why should our virtual cockpit remain solidly
fixed and virtually stationary save for the slightest, little,
barely-perceptible movements?
In this regard, I find the minimal amount of movement provided in
F1RC's second in-cockpit view to be wholly insufficient to convey any
useful information to me. I still hope that the full version proves
to be better overall, but, frankly, the pathetically-lacking "demo"
that Ubisoft foisted upon us just about p!$$&d me off enough to put a
real damper on my enthusiasm at this point.
Then again, that's just my opinion, and as with belly-buttons and
@$$#0|&$, everybody has one, and they're all different, right?
-- JB
Quoted text (19 lines)
>In the demo, you are not in expert mode because expert mode is not >available. Like I said, if you are expecting a lot of pitch and roll, then >you must be living 35 years in the past. > >David G Fisher > > >"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> >The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. >> >> I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different >> physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have >> wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality >> of the physics engine. >This is the reason I'm not fond of F1 2000 and CS, the cars feel way too
soft for a modern F1 car. My favourite modern F1 sim was GP3, but that has
now been replaced by F1RC.
F1RC still has a few problems IMO, mainly the AI which just don't seem to
see the player car. The sound could also be better. As someone else here has
said, a sim with the best parts of the 3 current F1 sims would be ideal.
GP3's sound and weather effects, F1 CS's training school, F1RC's great
graphics and physics.
I also like the fact you can stall the car in F1RC if you switch to manual
clutch :)
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:jHUv6.857$[email hidden]...
> I said what I did because GPL gives you so much cockpit movement due to
the
> soft suspensions of late '60's F1 cars. Modern day F1 cars are stiff as
> hell. I don't even know if Jagg plays GPL regularly, but I'm sure he's
> played it at least a bit, and understands what I was referring to.
>
> David G Fisher
>
You don't suck at it, I've raced you a few times on VROC !!! :)
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:13:11 GMT, Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Yea, I play GPL sometimes. I'm not a huge fan of it though because I
> >suck at it. :-)
>
> Allmost everybody here, including me, sucks at GPL, but that doesn't
> mean we don't enjoy it :)
>
> Andre
I was thinking the same thing the other day, what it needs is a slider for
linearity like Papy sims rather than the 3 position switch currently in it.
I soon got used to it, but it's not ideal.
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Andrew MacPherson wrote
>
> I was quite impressed with the demo, but I couldn't get the steering to
> feel "right"... same problem I had with GP2/3. The rest seemed pretty
> promising though if, as you say, that was the lower-fi driving model.
>
> Andrew McP
>
>
David G Fisher wrote:
> Force Feedback:
>
> I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
> wheel and broke it.
How come this dosn't suprise me one bit ?!?
<VBG!>
ed_
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:14:26 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre
Warringa) wrote:
>Allmost everybody here, including me, sucks at GPL, but that doesn't
>mean we don't enjoy it :)
>
>Andre
The only track I can make it around in one piece is Monza. :-(
Well, I reloaded the demo for F1RC and then went and played GP3 on the
same track. I still like GP3 better. Cockpit feels/looks much better
to me. I know that GP3 could use some more filtering on the textures,
but IMO F1RC is overfiltered and ends up looking more cartoonish
because of it. BTW, the demo has two modes, begginers and pro so I
guess expert is a 3rd mode in the full game.
That's great, I've always wondered why no other sims do that. Always seemed
fake to me that you can crash, let the revs drop to nothing, and not stall
the car.
"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:99qrqg$6a8$[email hidden]...
> I also like the fact you can stall the car in F1RC if you switch to manual
> clutch :)
"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:99qrqg$6a8$[email hidden]...
Agassi sucks at tennis. Kasparov sucks at chess. Huttu sucks at GPL. Stewart
says he never turned a perfect lap in his entire carreer.
In any real sport or game worth pursuing seriously the very, very BEST suck,
they just suck a lot less than the rest of us. If it were possible to
actually MASTER the sport it wouldn't be worth playing to the best
performers and they would drift off to something with a lifetime's worth of
challenge to it.
And that, boys and girls, is why GPL is more than " just a game."
KFG
Quoted text (20 lines)
> You don't suck at it, I've raced you a few times on VROC !!! :) > > -- > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:13:11 GMT, Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Yea, I play GPL sometimes. I'm not a huge fan of it though because I > > >suck at it. :-) > > > > Allmost everybody here, including me, sucks at GPL, but that doesn't > > mean we don't enjoy it :) > > > > Andre > >
"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9H2w6.113$[email hidden]...
> David G Fisher wrote:
>
> > Force Feedback:
> >
> > I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with myff
I was going to say that, but I restrained myself.
( Now if someone would just come along and untie me I'd be ok)
KFG
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > wheel and broke it. > > How come this dosn't suprise me one bit ?!? > > <VBG!> > > ed_ > >Are you refering to Arto in another thread? He found out what the problem
was. I haven't heard of anyone else not being able to run it on a 1Ghz
machine. It runs smoother than GP3 for me.
It has Sepang, but not Indy unfortunately.
I know you are a big fan of F1CS, and I am too. You may want to give F1RC a
try though.
David G Fisher
"Greg Cisko" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:aV0w6.3213$[email hidden]...
:-P
> > > >
> > > >AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up
> for
> > > >some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summersundresses
are
> > > >FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's justthe
> > > >opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to
> > dance
> > > >on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modernF1
> > sim
> > > >is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
> > > >(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real
> life.
> > > >I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favoritetracks)
> > and
> > > >can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of1:21.504.
> > You
> > > >can download this at the http://www.bhmotorsports.com/ hot lapsection
> if
> > > >you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit.The
> > > >accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
> > > >enables this. The tires start bitching and the car shakes as Iapproach
roll
> > > when
> > > >they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn'tpitch
> > and
> > > >roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. Thisisn't
> > > >1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lockwill
> > > >enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup
> changes
> > in
> > > >F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default
> > > setups
> > > >are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race,and
> > tire
> > > >temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap ortwo.
> > One
> > > >very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as
> you
> > > get
> > > >close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1car
on
> > > you.
> > > >No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under
> > their
> > > >helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to
> you
> > > >what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent jobof
fantastic.
> > For
> > > >me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of thaton/off
number
> of
> > > >cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of
> online
> > > >racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of morethan
> > six
> > > >quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life withmorons
> > who
> > > >either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who
> > purposely
> > > >ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simplycannot
> > > >commit to a set time to race others.
> > > >
> > > >Force Feedback:
> > > >
> > > >I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head withmy
> > ff
> > > >wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have
> problems.
> > > The
> > > >optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or theremay
> be
> > > >bugs with some controllers.
> > > >
> > > >This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPLand
> > > >members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if youprefer
> > > >historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims.
> > > Otherwise,
> > > >F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this simcannot
> > be
> > > >considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs
> > > desperately
> > > >as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen sofar.
Quoted text (27 lines)
> Then why are people with 1.xGhz AMD systems saying the game is too > slow??? > > Also does F1RC have the current tracks? > > -- > > [email hidden] > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g7Sv6.617$[email hidden]... > > P450 and a TNT2 card should run it ok. You might have to turn down the > draw > > distance and some car detail. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "Ben Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > What is a reasonable system to run F1RC satisfactorily? > > > > > > Ben > > > > > > David G Fisher wrote in message ... > > > >First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway.Quoted text (51 lines)
> > > that > > > >Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling > with > > > >the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me. > > > > > > > >The great. > > > > > > > >Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, > and > > > >the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience > (track > > > >accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the > > ability > > > >to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry, > > separate > > > >and accurate car models, rubber build up and grip change, radio > > > >communication with the pit crew, etc.). > > > > > > > >The very good. > > > > > > > >Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer. > > > > > > > >The Unknown: > > > > > > > >Force Feedback > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------- > > > >Graphics: > > > > > > > >No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how > > amazing > > > >they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because > it > > > >runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic > > > graphics > > > >engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all > > > >clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb. > > > > > > > >Physics: > > > > > > > >I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto > > > simulators > > > >can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a > conclusion > > > as > > > >to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's > > taken > > > >me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true > potential > > of > > > >this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, theyQuoted text (23 lines)
> > the > > > >edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the > > > >feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The > rear > > > >end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or > > > >controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). > Exactly > > > the > > > >opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some > > > >practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim > > > >(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I > can > > 4 > > > >wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1 > > car, > > > >and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real > life > > > >driving techniques. I agree that there isn't cockpit movement in the > > > default > > > >cockpit view, but there is in cockpit view #2. Not a lot though, > because > > it > > > >wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch andQuoted text (10 lines)
> > > would > > > >feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very > > good > > > >physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now > (too > > > >much grip). > > > > > > > >Sound: > > > > > > > >I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they growQuoted text (18 lines)
> > > >that. > > > > > > > >Weather: > > > > > > > >Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important > part > > of > > > >F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather > > changes > > > >during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at > > > times. > > > >You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the > > track. > > > >A dry line forms as the race progresses. > > > > > > > >Controller performance: > > > > > > > >The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness isQuoted text (13 lines)
> > > >nonsense that some sims have. > > > > > > > >UI: > > > > > > > >Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very > > > >quickly. > > > > > > > >Multiplayer: > > > > > > > >With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's. > > > >Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody > > loves > > > >online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the lowQuoted text (21 lines)
> > > Now, > > > >since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I > expect > > > the > > > >majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very > > > >reassuring. > > > > > > > >David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Personally I don't find the AI that bad. Certainly not unplayable as
suggested.
Sure the AI has some problems. Yet when it is working well they can give
some enthralling battles.
Stuck behind a slightly slower car but unable to find a place to make a pass
and feeling your car lose grip as you get close - sound familar?
When you do make that pass after many laps working out where you can the
sense of achievement is much greater than any other sim I have tried. The
lunge from way back doesn't work here - as it doesn't in real F1.
For sure there are corners where you can get hit up the back which need
sorting. Similarly the AI brake a little early in others. Hopefully this can
be fixed. Then we have the best AI there is.
IMHO the AI is playable although flawed and has the potential to be great.
Far from the rubbish we have heard many times.
If I get hit braking early when learning a track in a quick race then I
deserve it!
Has anybody else been frustrated by the AI backing right off when you get
next to them in GPL & GP3? In GPL it is always clear if you are faster or
slower than them. You either defend or attack throughout the race.
In F1RC at times it really feels like you are racing the guy in front & if
you get by he will be looking to get you back.
Plus the way they move over for you & the AI when being lapped & in
qualifying is really cool. No more waiting for the leaders to lap traffic to
make up tons of time during the race.
Just watching the AI race after I have spun & stalled my engine (more great
realism) is quite something.
Plus the cars handle quite differently - try the "lesser" cars - they will
slide more and certainly behave differently (my personal favourite is the
Williams although the BAR is more "chuckable")
Far from dreadful AI I think this is very close to being the best. Fix the
silly bugs Ubisoft, and F1RC could be great.
Tony
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>..........
> Multiplayer - With 4 cars or less, it's good, any more cars and
> multiplayer becomes unplayable. Why's that? More than 2 years ago a
> certain racing sim came out with rock-solid 20-car multiplayer..
> Why-o-why can't GP3, F1CS and F1RC have good multiplayer?
> ......
My guess is that their game engines are all single threaded. My other guess
is that GPL and N4 have a thread for every car plus one or more central
threads. The most obvious clue for this are the mem_client_ and mem_server_
parameters in core.ini. Shared memory is the way to send info between
threads.
The coding per thread is easily adapted to receiving/sending info through a
network, since it copes with asynchronous events by design. A single thread
design incurs less overhead but has trouble dealing with asynchronous
events, it wants everything once per tick.
As a bonus, the multi thread design can make use of multiple cpu's, which
was indeed confirned to be the case for GPL iirc.
Bart Westra
Wow Kev... that's a pretty powerfull summation. Too bad it's a little big
for a sig.
Jan./ the search continues...
=---
Kevin Gavitt wrote...
Quoted text (14 lines)
> <snip> > Agassi sucks at tennis. Kasparov sucks at chess. Huttu sucks > at GPL. Stewart says he never turned a perfect lap in his > entire carreer. > > In any real sport or game worth pursuing seriously the very, > very BEST suck, they just suck a lot less than the rest of us. > If it were possible to actually MASTER the sport it wouldn't be > worth playing to the best performers and they would drift off > to something with a lifetime's worth of challenge to it. > > And that, boys and girls, is why GPL is more than " just a game." > > KFGThere is an expert mode (no assists at all), and you can also make your own
settings.
David G Fisher
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Well, I reloaded the demo for F1RC and then went and played GP3 on the
> same track. I still like GP3 better. Cockpit feels/looks much better
> to me. I know that GP3 could use some more filtering on the textures,
> but IMO F1RC is overfiltered and ends up looking more cartoonish
> because of it. BTW, the demo has two modes, begginers and pro so I
> guess expert is a 3rd mode in the full game.
I've been accused of not replying to posts, so I want to let Edwin, Andre,
and Andrew know that your posts did not show up on my newsreader. I've only
seen quotes from your posts in other replies. If you asked me a question or
called me a twat, I didn't see it.
David G Fisher
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:51:22 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>You don't suck at it, I've raced you a few times on VROC !!! :)
Err.. then you just suck even more at GPL than me :))
Andre
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:57:36 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Hmm.. I was surprised that DGF has a girlfriend.. :)
Andre
Quoted text (12 lines)
>David G Fisher wrote: > >> Force Feedback: >> >> I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff >> wheel and broke it. > >How come this dosn't suprise me one bit ?!? > ><VBG!> > >ed_I'd be surprised if his views on simracing were a consideration Andre...
Jan./ I'll bring along the dress along next (first) time we meet. ;-))
=---
Andre Warringa wrote...
> <snip>
> Hmm.. I was surprised that DGF has a girlfriend.. :)
>
> Andre
>
>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> I've been accused of not replying to posts, so I want to let Edwin, Andre,
> and Andrew know that your posts did not show up on my newsreader. I'veonly
> seen quotes from your posts in other replies. If you asked me a questionor
> called me a twat, I didn't see it.
I questioned you on your ability to judge the multiplayer. My experience is
pitiful compared to sims like GPL, the NROS, N3, N4, DTR, DTR:SC, etc...
How can you even say that it's great is beyond any kind of logic.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
"O" Kevin what words of wisdom sensei`.. Me-> Grasshopper
thanks you!..lol Sorry I couldnt resist. Sudamn Insane made me
do it!! <G>
Cheerio Thom_j.
| Kevin Gavitt wrote...
| > <snip>
> And that, boys and girls, is why GPL is more than " just a game."
| > KFG
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 03:01:42 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>I'd be surprised if his views on simracing were a consideration Andre...
>
>Jan./ I'll bring along the dress along next (first) time we meet. ;-))
Ssstt! Don't talk about our drag meetings here!!
Andre
Quoted text (8 lines)
>=--- >Andre Warringa wrote... >> <snip> >> Hmm.. I was surprised that DGF has a girlfriend.. :) >> >> Andre >> >On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 01:31:07 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
It's great compared to GP3's multiplayer..
Nah, with 1-4 players it's good, but any more players and quality
drops bigtime, making most races simply unplayable.
Andre
Quoted text (12 lines)
>>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I've been accused of not replying to posts, so I want to let Edwin, Andre, >> and Andrew know that your posts did not show up on my newsreader. I've >only >> seen quotes from your posts in other replies. If you asked me a question >or >> called me a twat, I didn't see it. > > >I questioned you on your ability to judge the multiplayer. My experience is >pitiful compared to sims like GPL, the NROS, N3, N4, DTR, DTR:SC, etc... >How can you even say that it's great is beyond any kind of logic.>"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote
> It's great compared to GP3's multiplayer..
LMAO ;-) Well, anything is better then GP3's multiplayer. No multiplayer
is almost better ;-)
> Nah, with 1-4 players it's good, but any more players and quality
> drops bigtime, making most races simply unplayable.
Exactly. In 2001, 1-4 is quite pathetic and does not equal at all great
multiplayer like DGF implied. Pity on him for such poor judgement.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Wow Kev... that's a pretty powerfull summation. Too bad it's a little big
> for a sig.
>
> Jan./ the search continues...
> =---
You can always redact it down to " I suck." :)
KFG
How about the "muzak" Arto Wikla complained? Surely there is no music when
driving!?
True, but it would raise questions I wouldn't like to answer.
Jan.
=---
Kevin Gavitt wrote...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> <snip> > > You can always redact it down to " I suck." :) > > KFG > >On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:35:16 +0300, "Jari Jokinen"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>How about the "muzak" Arto Wikla complained? Surely there is no music when
>driving!?
No, only during the menus, so not a big deal really.
Andre
Well you are right in the sense that since we don't have "ass force
feedback" we need to have "over realistic" pitch and roll but for my part I
think that the feeling is quite good in F1RC, i have found on this forum a
link to a F1RC site with editor and sounds and now it really rocks, I
thought the sound was the real weak point but now with the extra sounds
available there is nothing to add.
"John Bodin" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news:
[email hidden]...
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 03:39:51 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> >In the demo, you are not in expert mode because expert mode is not
> >available. Like I said, if you are expecting a lot of pitch and roll,then
Quoted text (68 lines)
> >you must be living 35 years in the past. > > > >David G Fisher > > > > > >"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. > >> > >> I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different > >> physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have > >> wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality > >> of the physics engine. > > > > FWIW, I never "expect" a lot of pitch and roll in any given > simulation. I do, though, DEPEND on seeing visual pitch and roll (AND > yaw) cues to "fill in the blanks" due to the lack of REAL-LIFE, > seat-of-the-pants (or small of the back) motion cues that a REAL F1 > driver benefits from. A Force Feedback wheel may add a *little* to a > game for some people, but until the developers can find some way to > convey acceleration, deceleration, and lateral forces directly to my > cortex, I (and all of you) are forced to rely on our eyes and ears. > > If a cockpit is static in a game, then we're being deprived of some > vitally-important cues. If the sounds come in on-cue, rather than in > response to what the physics engine is really doing, then we're being > deprived of some vitally-important cues. > > At this point in the game, even the best implementations of Force > Feedback have to "fake" a certain amount of information to make for a > convincing and informative experience with existing Force Feedback > wheels. This is perfectly acceptable, because it reflects a > limitation of the hardware and the medium being used. > > Similarly, "lively" cockpits that convey GOOD pitch, yaw, and roll > information in a simulation is equally acceptable. In fact, it's > critically important, as far as I'm concerned -- far more important > than how a game implements Force Feedback, in my book. > > As for an modern F1 car not having the same amount of suspension > travel as a 1967 Grand Prix machine, that may be true -- but I can > GUARANTEE you that even with modern suspensions, helmets, head > restraints, and the HANS device, Michael Schumacher's neck has > virtually the SAME amount of travel and the same number of degrees of > freedom as Jim Clark -- or pretty darn close, anyway. So maybe the > car and the cockpit doesn't see as much movement, but we all can see > with our own eyes just how much a modern F1 driver's head moves around > in the cockpit. So why should our virtual cockpit remain solidly > fixed and virtually stationary save for the slightest, little, > barely-perceptible movements? > > In this regard, I find the minimal amount of movement provided in > F1RC's second in-cockpit view to be wholly insufficient to convey any > useful information to me. I still hope that the full version proves > to be better overall, but, frankly, the pathetically-lacking "demo" > that Ubisoft foisted upon us just about p!$$&d me off enough to put a > real damper on my enthusiasm at this point. > > Then again, that's just my opinion, and as with belly-buttons and > @$$#0|&$, everybody has one, and they're all different, right? > > -- JB > >well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
mutliplayer in GPL ?
The game (F1RC) is out since 1 week, give the UBI guys some time...
I would like to point out that N4 has had many problems at the release, the
patch is n ot out yet, the problems are not solved, and it looks like the
"problems" F1RC have are not that muh of a big deal to solve, better FF (I
like it like that but why not?), better sounds (available for download
already) and better multiplayer (make a "VROC" patch)....
Physics, graphics, UI, frame rate are good....
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news:
yTcw6.471913$[email hidden]...
> >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote
> > It's great compared to GP3's multiplayer..
>
> LMAO ;-) Well, anything is better then GP3's multiplayer. Nomultiplayer
Quoted text (22 lines)
> is almost better ;-) > > > > Nah, with 1-4 players it's good, but any more players and quality > > drops bigtime, making most races simply unplayable. > > Exactly. In 2001, 1-4 is quite pathetic and does not equal at all great > multiplayer like DGF implied. Pity on him for such poor judgement. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>Physics are good....
That's still up for debate.
But the PROBLEM with the modern F1 sims isn't just a limited muliplayer
ability...it is compounded by the fact that only a few can join any race
before
the connection collapses. 4 so far seems to be the max drivable in
F1rc..big whoop.
I will point out tho..that F1cs2k had the same limitations and I BELEIEVE
they are
testing a server that will allow around 20 drivers...THAT is an immense
improvement.
dave henrie
"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4slw6.407$[email hidden]...
> well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
> mutliplayer in GPL ?
I can't argue with that statement !! ;)
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:51:22 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >You don't suck at it, I've raced you a few times on VROC !!! :)
>
> Err.. then you just suck even more at GPL than me :))
>
> Andre
ymenard wrote:
Kind of makes me wonder about the rest of his 'review'. GPL is king,
praise be to GPL, we are not worthy...and nor is F1RC :).
Gerry
Quoted text (12 lines)
> > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > > It's great compared to GP3's multiplayer.. > > LMAO ;-) Well, anything is better then GP3's multiplayer. No multiplayer > is almost better ;-) > > > Nah, with 1-4 players it's good, but any more players and quality > > drops bigtime, making most races simply unplayable. > > Exactly. In 2001, 1-4 is quite pathetic and does not equal at all great > multiplayer like DGF implied. Pity on him for such poor judgement.
Txl wrote:
> and better multiplayer (make a "VROC" patch)....
Yeah right, it's that easy to fix!
Gerry
I can't think of a modern F1 sim that has better physics at the moment.
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
> >Physics are good....
>
> That's still up for debate.
How anyone can say that the astonishing graphics in F1RC look 'cartoony' is
beyond me!
Iain
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Well, I reloaded the demo for F1RC and then went and played GP3 on the
> same track. I still like GP3 better. Cockpit feels/looks much better
> to me. I know that GP3 could use some more filtering on the textures,
> but IMO F1RC is overfiltered and ends up looking more cartoonish
> because of it. BTW, the demo has two modes, begginers and pro so I
> guess expert is a 3rd mode in the full game.
Don't think so.
As Dave has said already, it's impossible to believe that anyone who has
spent a significant amount of time on F1RC could be anything but VERY
impressed.
Although the AI needs work, even that is not as bad as I originally thought.
A lot of the problems come from you braking too hard or too late or going
too slowly etc. etc. If you look at real F1 you'll find that is what
happens, e.g. Villeneuve and R Schumaker in the 'marshall' incident.
The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but
better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening
up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbs etc.
etc.
Iain
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
> >Physics are good....
>
> That's still up for debate.
I completely agree. At last some sense prevails in the AI debate. Still
needs some wotk, but is not that bad if the player car drives sensibly!
Iain
"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:7L7w6.1094$[email hidden]...
pass
can
to
> make up tons of time during the race.
>
> Just watching the AI race after I have spun & stalled my engine (moregreat
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Personally I don't find the AI that bad. Certainly not unplayable as > suggested. > > Sure the AI has some problems. Yet when it is working well they can give > some enthralling battles. > > Stuck behind a slightly slower car but unable to find a place to make aQuoted text (8 lines)
> and feeling your car lose grip as you get close - sound familar? > > When you do make that pass after many laps working out where you can the > sense of achievement is much greater than any other sim I have tried. The > lunge from way back doesn't work here - as it doesn't in real F1. > > For sure there are corners where you can get hit up the back which need > sorting. Similarly the AI brake a little early in others. Hopefully thisQuoted text (16 lines)
> be fixed. Then we have the best AI there is. > > IMHO the AI is playable although flawed and has the potential to be great. > Far from the rubbish we have heard many times. > > If I get hit braking early when learning a track in a quick race then I > deserve it! > > Has anybody else been frustrated by the AI backing right off when you get > next to them in GPL & GP3? In GPL it is always clear if you are faster or > slower than them. You either defend or attack throughout the race. > In F1RC at times it really feels like you are racing the guy in front & if > you get by he will be looking to get you back. > > Plus the way they move over for you & the AI when being lapped & in > qualifying is really cool. No more waiting for the leaders to lap trafficQuoted text (12 lines)
> realism) is quite something. > > Plus the cars handle quite differently - try the "lesser" cars - they will > slide more and certainly behave differently (my personal favourite is the > Williams although the BAR is more "chuckable") > > Far from dreadful AI I think this is very close to being the best. Fix the > silly bugs Ubisoft, and F1RC could be great. > > Tony > >Here's an interesting post I saw at the HG forum. His experience with an F1
car seems similiar to the F1RC experience.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Copied this from the AtlasF1 Bulletin Board
http://www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18227&perpage=40&pagenu
mber=1 :
Question: Is a F1 car similar to FFRenault, etc.?
Russ Brooks (Experienced racer who drove the 1991 Ligier):
"Actually, that is quite an interesting question. (Thanks JayWay for the
prompt, I did mean to answer it!)
The answer to your first question is a definite 'No'. The F1 car felt like a
totally different beast, Ross. Apart from the obvious power hike -
increasing the speeds, the knock-on effects caused by the extra power took
me by surprise.
I (of course) knew that I had to "feel" my way around the throttle pedal for
a while to get used relative speed vs. braking zones, but nothing really
prepared me for the "new" driving characteristics that the massive downforce
introduced.
I had gotten used to throwing the FF cars around with a high degree of
accuracy, and with this came a certain complacency.
This allowed you to control powerslides and turn in to tight corners earlier
"knowing" that the car wasn't going to "answer" your command until 5 metres
later - a racing line that became 2nd knowledge as it were. The worst that
could happen would be a slight running off of line - which would lose you
time but could be corrected by dabbing the throttle and throwing on opposite
lock - or if going too fast, just hammering the brakes and finding your way
out of the run off area and back onto the track.
But with the F1 car this set of rules (understandably) changed quite
considerably. First off, the downforce effect was quite breathtaking. It
meant that you turn the wheel 5mm into a bend and the car was responding
yesterday (lol!) which was quite un-nerving but ultimately providing you
with PREDICTABILITY. Something you didn't have in even the best set-up FF
cars.
Secondly, and as an extension to the above characteristic, it meant apexing
was fantastic. Chicanes could be attacked almost with abandon - knowing that
the car wouldn't argue with you. The "snap over" g-forces that drivers talk
about soon become very apparent. The weight of your crash-lid and head
increases to the point that when I achieved my first relatively quick
direction snap - I thought my head would leave my body. My shoulders were
bruised when I got out the car due to the side-g's, and my knees had taken a
battering.
So to conclude all the above "handling rules", I would say that you could
draw to within a "millimetre" the correct racing line (text-book, you could
say) of any circuit, and follow it like a railtrack.
Which brings me neatly on to the final major differences.
The power increase is so huge, that even with enormous grip any small
mistakes would be punished severely. For example, you could be doing 30mph
around a slow corner - hard lock, and where as in an FF car you would be
used to giving the throttle 50% to pull you out of the corner, in an F1 car
(in 1st gear - soon learnt to use 2nd!) 20% throttle for the briefest dab
would spin you out of control.
This applied to all corners. Even when the downforce effect is working hard
around a 130mph bend, the slightest bit of, "whoops, maybe that didn't need
full throttle in 4th out of there.." and you were in shit-soup!
I had a few scary, "...oh dear, I'm heading into the tyre wall...help
me...phew that was close..." moments...
The other amazing difference, as I mentioned in the thread, was the brakes.
I really couldn't comprehend how late you can brake into a corner without
losing control, in an F1 car.
If you slammed the middle pedal hard to the floor at top speed in an FF1600
(say 125mph) then you could expect the cars wheels to lock up and obviously,
without wheels turning, you have no control over where the car is going. If
you left it too late then you went straight on - past the point of no
return - only to release the brakes and spin sideways off the circuit. But,
and a BIG BUT, you normally at this point had slowed so much that the
run-off collected you - or you only nudged the tyre wall. But late in an
FF1600 means 250metres from the 1st tight corner at the end of the straight.
This even gave you time to correct your line into the corner if you needed
to!
In an F1 car, you could brake from 190mph+ into a 30mph corner - change from
6th to 2nd - and NOT LOCK UP. All from 100metres or so. No room for,
"...Shit!!! Wrong line." You had to get it right, or risk dying horribly in
a tyre wall pizza.
Quite a frightening learning experience, all in all.
Just out of interest, I seem to remember only using full opposite lock to
get out of trouble, and this was on the first few laps. After that, if you
had to use 'opp. lock' then you had done it wrong!
Russ Brooks
"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6frw6.4033$[email hidden]...
> Don't think so.
> As Dave has said already, it's impossible to believe that anyone who has
> spent a significant amount of time on F1RC could be anything but VERY
> impressed.
> Although the AI needs work, even that is not as bad as I originallythought.
> A lot of the problems come from you braking too hard or too late or going
> too slowly etc. etc. If you look at real F1 you'll find that is what
> happens, e.g. Villeneuve and R Schumaker in the 'marshall' incident.
> The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but
> better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening
> up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbsetc.
Quoted text (15 lines)
> etc. > Iain > > > > "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Physics are good.... > > > > That's still up for debate. > >Another Ian (yes, different spelling) who is well known for his setups and
driving posted the following comments about F1RC (at fist he didn't like it,
now after spending some serious time with it, he loves it) and also gave
some setup info. Since we discuss setups, I thought you might want to read
this.
--------------------------------
Hi all.
To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game or got
second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to say that
I was wrong!
The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and blue screens,
it is close to perfect.
I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable when
oversteering and it's awesome!
Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and I jumped in
too soon.
In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor and this
ones growing like a baby.
It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's this
area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thought I'd
say that)
You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handles like
the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about - exploring
the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's what GPL
does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game.
For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it
some time, it's bloody excellent.
--------------------
Ian Bell
GPLRank -16.8
Gonna learn The Ring and Silverstone soon
Rafael: I'll be posting them soon to http://bhmotorsports.com
Taking a little while because I'm working on about 4 different setups to
suit different cars for each track
Jure:
I'VE SEEN THE LIGHT! How's it going mate?
Scorpio:
Tough one this to describe but I'll preamble a bit. This SIM is very similar
to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding stepping
over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generally aren't
going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the visual
change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in the suspension
movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's not that.
Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit. The
screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until they are
hanging out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, the feedback I
take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL,
this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Also the
suspension arms don't move much.
Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon and in
the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming I get
any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious.
Do this:
Take the Mclaren and stock setup at any track, a mid downforce track is
best. Now
1. Stiffen the front Springs and dampers (keeping the same rough ratio
between bump and rebound) and soften the rears marginally.
2: Take the rear anti roll bar to 50,000 or so, front to 94,000
2: Drop the rear rideheight 5 or so and the front 15
3: Take the front wings to 1 point less than the rears.
4: Take the Diff to centre
5: Set the front camber to -50 and the rear to +10
6: Lower the gear ratios 2 points each.
7: Lower the Packers/BumpStops 5 points each.
Now take it out on track, and power it out of the slow corners and you'll
hit the rev limiter earlier and the car won't spin as easily.
Check the telemetry that the rear has clearance and if it doesn't raise it.
OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost uncontrollable
is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast
turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable
oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you touch
the left curbing.
In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors:
1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band out of
the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear.
2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (a recipe
for oversteer) The above seven points should help with this.
Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better
handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do have
Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows
itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren. The
Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent.
Sorry to go on.
[ 28 March 2001: Message edited by: Will ]
--------------------
Ian Bell
GPLRank -16.8
Gonna learn The Ring and Silverstone soon.
"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6frw6.4033$[email hidden]...
> Don't think so.
> As Dave has said already, it's impossible to believe that anyone who has
> spent a significant amount of time on F1RC could be anything but VERY
> impressed.
> Although the AI needs work, even that is not as bad as I originallythought.
> A lot of the problems come from you braking too hard or too late or going
> too slowly etc. etc. If you look at real F1 you'll find that is what
> happens, e.g. Villeneuve and R Schumaker in the 'marshall' incident.
> The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but
> better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening
> up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbsetc.
Quoted text (15 lines)
> etc. > Iain > > > > "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Physics are good.... > > > > That's still up for debate. > >Another Ian (yes, different spelling) who is well known for his setups and
driving posted the following comments about F1RC (at fist he didn't like it,
now after spending some serious time with it, he loves it) and also gave
some setup info. Since we discuss setups, I thought you might want to read
this.
--------------------------------
Hi all.
To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game or got
second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to say that
I was wrong!
The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and blue screens,
it is close to perfect.
I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable when
oversteering and it's awesome!
Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and I jumped in
too soon.
In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor and this
ones growing like a baby.
It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's this
area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thought I'd
say that)
You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handles like
the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about - exploring
the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's what GPL
does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game.
For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it
some time, it's bloody excellent.
--------------------
Ian Bell
GPLRank -16.8
Gonna learn The Ring and Silverstone soon
Rafael: I'll be posting them soon to http://bhmotorsports.com
Taking a little while because I'm working on about 4 different setups to
suit different cars for each track
Jure:
I'VE SEEN THE LIGHT! How's it going mate?
Scorpio:
Tough one this to describe but I'll preamble a bit. This SIM is very similar
to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding stepping
over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generally aren't
going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the visual
change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in the suspension
movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's not that.
Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit. The
screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until they are
hanging out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, the feedback I
take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL,
this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Also the
suspension arms don't move much.
Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon and in
the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming I get
any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious.
Do this:
Take the Mclaren and stock setup at any track, a mid downforce track is
best. Now
1. Stiffen the front Springs and dampers (keeping the same rough ratio
between bump and rebound) and soften the rears marginally.
2: Take the rear anti roll bar to 50,000 or so, front to 94,000
2: Drop the rear rideheight 5 or so and the front 15
3: Take the front wings to 1 point less than the rears.
4: Take the Diff to centre
5: Set the front camber to -50 and the rear to +10
6: Lower the gear ratios 2 points each.
7: Lower the Packers/BumpStops 5 points each.
Now take it out on track, and power it out of the slow corners and you'll
hit the rev limiter earlier and the car won't spin as easily.
Check the telemetry that the rear has clearance and if it doesn't raise it.
OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost uncontrollable
is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast
turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable
oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you touch
the left curbing.
In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors:
1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band out of
the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear.
2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (a recipe
for oversteer) The above seven points should help with this.
Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better
handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do have
Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows
itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren. The
Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent.
Sorry to go on.
[ 28 March 2001: Message edited by: Will ]
--------------------
Ian Bell
GPLRank -16.8
Gonna learn The Ring and Silverstone soon.
"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:6frw6.4033$[email hidden]...
> Don't think so.
> As Dave has said already, it's impossible to believe that anyone who has
> spent a significant amount of time on F1RC could be anything but VERY
> impressed.
> Although the AI needs work, even that is not as bad as I originallythought.
> A lot of the problems come from you braking too hard or too late or going
> too slowly etc. etc. If you look at real F1 you'll find that is what
> happens, e.g. Villeneuve and R Schumaker in the 'marshall' incident.
> The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but
> better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening
> up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbsetc.
Quoted text (15 lines)
> etc. > Iain > > > > "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Physics are good.... > > > > That's still up for debate. > > cool post David...he basically gave me these conclusions:
GPL is lot like his Formula Ford car...the way he describes throwing the car
into
the turns and the methods of saving a botched line sound very gplish to
me...but
his description of the F1 drive just about discounts every sim out there.(
don't have enough experience with the RC demo to compare)..certainly
the GP3's and F12kcs's don't give the preciseness and braking force he
describes.
dave (at least not in my feeble hands) henrie
"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Unsw6.3548$[email hidden]...
> Here's an interesting post I saw at the HG forum. His experience with anF1
a
> totally different beast, Ross. Apart from the obvious power hike -
> increasing the speeds, the knock-on effects caused by the extra power took
> me by surprise.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> car seems similiar to the F1RC experience. > > > Question: Is a F1 car similar > http://www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread.to FFRenault, etc.? > > Russ Brooks ( > > The answer to your first question is a definite 'No'. The F1 car felt likeOn Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
>mutliplayer in GPL ?
Big difference I think, the quality of the multiplayer was excellent
in the original version of GPL, but a good interface to find other
players was missing.
A "VROC" patch for F1RC won't solve the multiplayer problems (major
warping with more than 4 players) I'm affraid. But I hope someone can
prove me wrong..
Andre
Quoted text (7 lines)
>The game (F1RC) is out since 1 week, give the UBI guys some time... >I would like to point out that N4 has had many problems at the release, the >patch is n ot out yet, the problems are not solved, and it looks like the >"problems" F1RC have are not that muh of a big deal to solve, better FF (I >like it like that but why not?), better sounds (available for download >already) and better multiplayer (make a "VROC" patch).... >Physics, graphics, UI, frame rate are good....I see your point, but please remembe the days when GPL was still a baby, how
many people DID race online with version 1.0, WITHOUT VROC ?
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message news:
Rxnw6.635444$[email hidden]...
> But the PROBLEM with the modern F1 sims isn't just a limited muliplayer
> ability...it is compounded by the fact that only a few can join any race
> before
> the connection collapses. 4 so far seems to be the max drivable in
> F1rc..big whoop.
> I will point out tho..that F1cs2k had the same limitations and IBELEIEVE
Quoted text (10 lines)
> they are > testing a server that will allow around 20 drivers...THAT is an immense > improvement. > dave henrie > "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4slw6.407$[email hidden]... > > well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT > > mutliplayer in GPL ? > >It might not be "that" easy (I don't know, programming is not my job) but it
is probably "easier" than rewriting the graphics engine, don't you think ?
"Your Most Humble, Obedient Servant, Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> a
�crit dans le message news: [email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > > Txl wrote: > > > and better multiplayer (make a "VROC" patch).... > > Yeah right, it's that easy to fix! > > Gerry >>"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote
> well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
> mutliplayer in GPL ?
Hmmmm, no. The patch only gave us even better multiplayer then the one we
had. I recall some incredible races during the first day of GPL, with 15+
drivers.
> The game (F1RC) is out since 1 week, give the UBI guys some time...
It's been already 3 titles and they yet have been able to build any kind of
serious multiplayer, especially with the whole fiasco of the Game Service
(and I know much about that).
> Physics, graphics, UI, frame rate are good....
Still not enough for me in 2001.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
"Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8btw6.619$[email hidden]...
> I see your point, but please remembe the days when GPL was still a baby,how
> many people DID race online with version 1.0, WITHOUT VROC ?
I think you made MY point. :) Even tho the racing with gpl was
limited...the
core ability of the sim to handle many drivers was already there. With or
without
Vroc, you could...if you could find 19 drivers...run a full field. Can ANY
modern
F1 sim support even HALF of a current field? Yes GPl had limitations, but
they
were matchmaking limitations, not bandwidth or licensing or whatever seems
to
be holding back all these new titles.
Back when we played Doom and Doom II we spent a lot of time and money
locally getting a bbs system that could run 4 players at once...after a 4
player deathmatch, head to head competitons just didn't cut it anymore. And
the same goes with racing...
a few years ago...having 4 or 5 drivers in an F1 sim would have been
awesome. But
I've driven 20 in GPL, 30 in N3 and 40 in N4 and 20+ in Nascar Heat....I'm
spoiled by these abilities and frankly amazed that sims based on the world's
most cutting edge racing are all handicapped by apparently archaic
multiplayer modes...
Now I'll be the first to admit that often having that many users online at
once brings a
whole new set of problems, but the chances of racelong competion with other
drivers
is greatly increased as the field gets bigger. with 4 drivers in F1cs we
are often just 4 drivers hotlapping, out of sight and out of touch with each
other.
dave henrie.
>
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:49:48 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>
>The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but
>better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening
>up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbs etc.
>etc.
>Iain
Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff
in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is
doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do.
I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the
same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard
to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make
any sense at all.
Andre
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>I can't think of a modern F1 sim that has better physics at the moment.
Matter of opinion. I can't give a proper opion because i've only
played the demo, but it feels to me not much different than MGPRS2.
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:42:55 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>How anyone can say that the astonishing graphics in F1RC look 'cartoony' is
>beyond me!
>Iain
I just did. That's my opinion and it's just as valid as yours.
Everything is too smooth looking.
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:49:48 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Don't think so.
>As Dave has said already, it's impossible to believe that anyone who has
>spent a significant amount of time on F1RC could be anything but VERY
>impressed.
Seen lot's of negative comments on some of the web forums.
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:52:25 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>I completely agree. At last some sense prevails in the AI debate. Still
>needs some wotk, but is not that bad if the player car drives sensibly!
>Iain
Didn't you used to say the same thing about F12K? Or have I got you
mixed up with someone else?
Andre Warringa wrote:
Bad air?
Gerry
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff > in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is > doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. > I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the > same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard > to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make > any sense at all.
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:42:55 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >How anyone can say that the astonishing graphics in F1RC look 'cartoony'is
> >beyond me!
> >Iain
>
> I just did. That's my opinion and it's just as valid as yours.
> Everything is too smooth looking.
Oddly enough I feel the same way about NASCAR Heat. Is the eye candy " eye
popping?"
Yeah, I guess, but for my taste is too obviously computer generated. I just
plain don't like it.
Papy, realizing that photo realism is, at the moment, an unatainable dream,
seem to have modeled their grapics style and palette ater my favorite
colored pencil automotive artists.
Is it real? No, hardly, but damn, it's IS fine ART!
KFG
Yep, I did have something similar to say about F12K - good memory! I'm not
saying either AI is perfect, but I do believe that a lot of the criticism is
mis-placed. If you watch real F1, a slight unexpected slow down by one of
the cars can cause major pile-ups. What happens a lot in 'sims' is that
this aspect is dumbed down for the sake of playability.
However, I repeat, that the AI in F12K or F1RC is not perfect by any means.
The AI probs in F12K were 'fixed' in F12KCS, and I'm sure that Ubi will
address F1RC problems soon.
Iain
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:52:25 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I completely agree. At last some sense prevails in the AI debate. Still > >needs some wotk, but is not that bad if the player car drives sensibly! > >Iain > > Didn't you used to say the same thing about F12K? Or have I got you > mixed up with someone else?I use the Guillemot FF Ferrari wheel. As I said, the ff is nowhere as good
as GPL, but it is better than any other I've tried.
Iain
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:49:48 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but
> >better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back endloosening
> >up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbsetc.
Quoted text (12 lines)
> >etc. > >Iain > > Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff > in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is > doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. > I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the > same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard > to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make > any sense at all. > > AndreI hated MGPRS2. It felt totally fake.
I haven't tried the F1RC demo though, maybe theres a difference to the full
version.
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >I can't think of a modern F1 sim that has better physics at the moment.
>
> Matter of opinion. I can't give a proper opion because i've only
> played the demo, but it feels to me not much different than MGPRS2.
Might be a bug.
The wheel should feel loose as you come up behind an a AI car becuase dirty
air is simulated. It shouldn't feel bad though like you described.
David G Fisher
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff > in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is > doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. > I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the > same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard > to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make > any sense at all. > > AndreThe UI is acceptable, and I think they've hit a pretty good compromise
between all the other aspects.
Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the more I play it
the less crazy the AI are. Is there some sort of learning AI in there ?
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Xltw6.557597
>
> > Physics, graphics, UI, frame rate are good....
>
> Still not enough for me in 2001.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
>
>
>
Andre,
I only have the demo, not the game. On my LWFF, using split axis, I find that
lifting up on the throttle results in the brakes being applied.
Can you give me your within-game controller settings for the LWFF? ...And
perhaps an explanation of how you calibrated your controller within the game, in
order to arrive at a configuration where the brake and throttle pedals work
properly? (Which I assume you have done).
Thanks.
Bert
Andre Warringa wrote:
--
Bert
Quoted text (19 lines)
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:49:48 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > <snip> > >The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but > >better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening > >up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbs etc. > >etc. > >Iain > > Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff > in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is > doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. > I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the > same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard > to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make > any sense at all. > > AndreBert,
I had the same problem with my LWFF with the demo. Someone on here
came up with a way to get it to work, but for the life of me I can't
remember what it was <g>. Just wanted to assure you that I had no
problems whatsoever setting up the LWFF with split axis in the full
game.
Best,
Ian
BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (38 lines)
>Andre, > >I only have the demo, not the game. On my LWFF, using split axis, I find that >lifting up on the throttle results in the brakes being applied. > >Can you give me your within-game controller settings for the LWFF? ...And >perhaps an explanation of how you calibrated your controller within the game, in >order to arrive at a configuration where the brake and throttle pedals work >properly? (Which I assume you have done). > >Thanks. > >Bert > > > > >Andre Warringa wrote: > >> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:49:48 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> <snip> >> >The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL, but >> >better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back end loosening >> >up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbs etc. >> >etc. >> >Iain >> >> Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff >> in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is >> doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. >> I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the >> same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard >> to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make >> any sense at all. >> >> AndreYes, there is. The AI is supposed to learn your style and then adapt to it.
The lead developer at Ubi has described this in some interviews.
David G Fisher
"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9a09pu$t3f$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (31 lines)
> The UI is acceptable, and I think they've hit a pretty good compromise > between all the other aspects. > Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the more I play it > the less crazy the AI are. Is there some sort of learning AI in there ? > > -- > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Xltw6.557597 > > > > > Physics, graphics, UI, frame rate are good.... > > > > Still not enough for me in 2001. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:32:08 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Yea, they did fix it in F12KCS, and that's why I mention this. You
used to tell me (and others) that I was the problem of all the crashes
and needed to learn to drive better. Well, if that was absolutely true
then why did they put out a patch to fix it? Obviosly you were
dogmatic in your theory and refused to see the truth of what F12K
really was. I put to you the possiblity that it is the same dogmatic
belief that Ubisoft can do no wrong with F1RC. :-)
Quoted text (9 lines)
>Yep, I did have something similar to say about F12K - good memory! I'm not >saying either AI is perfect, but I do believe that a lot of the criticism is >mis-placed. If you watch real F1, a slight unexpected slow down by one of >the cars can cause major pile-ups. What happens a lot in 'sims' is that >this aspect is dumbed down for the sake of playability. >However, I repeat, that the AI in F12K or F1RC is not perfect by any means. >The AI probs in F12K were 'fixed' in F12KCS, and I'm sure that Ubi will >address F1RC problems soon. >IainOn Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:25:02 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Yes, there is. The AI is supposed to learn your style and then adapt to it.
>The lead developer at Ubi has described this in some interviews.
>
>David G Fisher
No wonder the AI are driving like kamikazes, they're adapting to my
driving style :)
Andre
Quoted text (10 lines)
>"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9a09pu$t3f$[email hidden]... >> The UI is acceptable, and I think they've hit a pretty good compromise >> between all the other aspects. >> Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the more I play it >> the less crazy the AI are. Is there some sort of learning AI in there ? >> >> -- >> Ian P >> <email invalid due to spam>On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:44:12 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Might be a bug.
>
>The wheel should feel loose as you come up behind an a AI car becuase dirty
>air is simulated. It shouldn't feel bad though like you described.
>
>David G Fisher
Probably.. the best way I can describe the ff behind an AI car is that
someone is taking over my wheel.. the ff gets much stronger than
normal, the wheel becomes -tighter- instead of more loose, and it's
making illogical movements.. weird..
Anyone else here experienced the same problem? With what wheel? LWFF
usb here...
Andre
Quoted text (13 lines)
>"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff >> in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is >> doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. >> I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the >> same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard >> to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make >> any sense at all. >> >> Andre >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:40:31 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:
Hi Bert,
It's a matter of trail and error.. in the end it works though, even
with my LWFF and CH pedals combo.
When you are calibrating the pedals, notice that it says something
like Z-axis, Z+ axis, R-axis or something like that.
The catch is, the further you press the pedals, the results will
change. If I press the pedals just a little bit, it says Z-. if I
press it a little further, it says R+, etc.
So I just tried a couple of different combinations untill it worked..
Apparently it's very hard to make a decent calibrating system like GPL
had 2.5 years ago :)
Andre
/ still failing to get his LWFF and CH pedals working decently in GP3
Quoted text (13 lines)
>Andre, > >I only have the demo, not the game. On my LWFF, using split axis, I find that >lifting up on the throttle results in the brakes being applied. > >Can you give me your within-game controller settings for the LWFF? ...And >perhaps an explanation of how you calibrated your controller within the game, in >order to arrive at a configuration where the brake and throttle pedals work >properly? (Which I assume you have done). > >Thanks. > >BertOn Fri, 30 Mar 2001 06:47:40 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Oh, and I wonder how the AI will drive on Indigo's computer.. will
they also drive the wrong way? :)
Andre
/ If you don't get this one, visit VROC more often :)
Quoted text (12 lines)
>On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:25:02 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>Yes, there is. The AI is supposed to learn your style and then adapt to it. >>The lead developer at Ubi has described this in some interviews. >> >>David G Fisher > >No wonder the AI are driving like kamikazes, they're adapting to my >driving style :) > >AndreI said they 'fixed' it in F12KCS in the manner I described in my previous
post, i.e. by dumbing down some of the more realistic effects in the
interests of playability.
I can only repeat however that I have never considered the AI to be perfect
in F12K, or F1RC (or F12KCS for that matter) but they are not as bad as some
people have suggested for the reasons I've previously given.
Iain
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:32:08 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Yep, I did have something similar to say about F12K - good memory! I'mnot
> >saying either AI is perfect, but I do believe that a lot of the criticismis
> >mis-placed. If you watch real F1, a slight unexpected slow down by oneof
> >the cars can cause major pile-ups. What happens a lot in 'sims' is that
> >this aspect is dumbed down for the sake of playability.
> >However, I repeat, that the AI in F12K or F1RC is not perfect by anymeans.
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >The AI probs in F12K were 'fixed' in F12KCS, and I'm sure that Ubi will > >address F1RC problems soon. > >Iain > > Yea, they did fix it in F12KCS, and that's why I mention this. You > used to tell me (and others) that I was the problem of all the crashes > and needed to learn to drive better. Well, if that was absolutely true > then why did they put out a patch to fix it? Obviosly you were > dogmatic in your theory and refused to see the truth of what F12K > really was. I put to you the possiblity that it is the same dogmatic > belief that Ubisoft can do no wrong with F1RC. :-)On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:46:57 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>I said they 'fixed' it in F12KCS in the manner I described in my previous
>post, i.e. by dumbing down some of the more realistic effects in the
>interests of playability.
Rear ending me all the time and then the spotter telling me that I
collided with so and so is realistic? Not in my books.
I think Indigo must have finally got the hint; haven't seen him for a long
time. Or maybe he died in a head-on crash when he forgot that real life
doesn't offer Shift+R...
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
it.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 06:47:40 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:25:02 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > >wrote: > > > >>Yes, there is. The AI is supposed to learn your style and then adapt toQuoted text (14 lines)
> >>The lead developer at Ubi has described this in some interviews. > >> > >>David G Fisher > > > >No wonder the AI are driving like kamikazes, they're adapting to my > >driving style :) > > > >Andre > > Oh, and I wonder how the AI will drive on Indigo's computer.. will > they also drive the wrong way? :) > > Andre > / If you don't get this one, visit VROC more often :)In article <7L7w6.1094$[email hidden]>, "Tony Rickard"
<[email hidden]> writes:
>Far from dreadful AI I think this is very close to being the best. Fix the
>silly bugs Ubisoft, and F1RC could be great.
>
What's Mikey's best time? :-)
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Let's not go through the 'definition of collision' thing again - we did all
that about a year ago!
Iain
"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:46:57 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I said they 'fixed' it in F12KCS in the manner I described in my previous > >post, i.e. by dumbing down some of the more realistic effects in the > >interests of playability. > > Rear ending me all the time and then the spotter telling me that I > collided with so and so is realistic? Not in my books.Below is a post from the High Gear forum by Bazza. It worked for me.
"This worked for me, but no guarantees. I found the split axis detection a
bit iffy. What usually happened is that the Accelerator would be detcted on
"Accelerator -" and the brake on "Accelerator +" (as opposed to Combined
Pedals +- for non-split axis). This may sound OK, but when you let go of the
accelerator, I was automatically braking.
Evetually, I got it to work with "Accelerator -" on throttle and "Brake -"
on brake. Here's what I did.
Press both brake and Accelerator then clicked Brake. After each attempted I
lifted off on the Accelerator a tad and clicked again. I repeated this (in
very quick succession - In other words, repeated clicking whilst easing of
on the accelerator) until it detected "Brake -" and viola. The Accelerator
is detected as per usual. It was always the Brake I had trouble with.
Hope this helps, it sure improves the driving."
Bart Westra
PS I found it works in 1NSANE as well
Original post by David Noe
"BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
> Andre,
>
> I only have the demo, not the game. On my LWFF, using split axis, I findthat
> lifting up on the throttle results in the brakes being applied.
>
> Can you give me your within-game controller settings for the LWFF? ...And
> perhaps an explanation of how you calibrated your controller within thegame, in
> order to arrive at a configuration where the brake and throttle pedalswork
but
> > >better than anything else I've tried. You can feel the back endloosening
> > >up, the wheel loosens up completely when going too hard/high over kerbsetc.
Quoted text (16 lines)
> properly? (Which I assume you have done). > > Thanks. > > Bert > > > > > Andre Warringa wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:49:48 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > <snip> > > >The FF is also good despite what some people say. Not as good as GPL,Quoted text (18 lines)
> > >etc. > > >Iain > > > > Interesting Ian, what ff wheel do you have? I have a LWFF usb and ff > > in f1rc is simply bad on my system, I don't feel what the car is > > doing, or more important, what the car is -about- to do. > > I also have a weird ff problem, and I heard other people having the > > same problem: When driving behind an AI car, the ff goes all bad, hard > > to describe what happens behind an AI car the ff effects don't make > > any sense at all. > > > > Andre > > -- > Bert > > >On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:22:53 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>Let's not go through the 'definition of collision' thing again - we did all
>that about a year ago!
>Iain
Yea, and I'm ready to go there again if need be.
> >Far from dreadful AI I think this is very close to being the best. Fixthe
> >silly bugs Ubisoft, and F1RC could be great.
> >
>
> What's Mikey's best time? :-)
>hehe - the AI are positively well behaved compared with my races with
Mikey - nothing beats father vs son rivalry! Particularly when I try to beat
him in a Minardi against his Mclaren at Monza - his giggling down the
straights is beginning to annoy me :-)
Tony
In article <DPhx6.17430$[email hidden]>, "Tony Rickard"
<[email hidden]> writes:
BWAHAHAHAHA...! Cool - GO MIKEY!<g>
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (12 lines)
>> >Far from dreadful AI I think this is very close to being the best. Fix >the >> >silly bugs Ubisoft, and F1RC could be great. >> > >> >> What's Mikey's best time? :-) >> >hehe - the AI are positively well behaved compared with my races with >Mikey - nothing beats father vs son rivalry! Particularly when I try to beat >him in a Minardi against his Mclaren at Monza - his giggling down the >straights is beginning to annoy me :-) >Tires feel like floating above the ground and the suspension's so incredibly
rigid as if the tire is just a rigid extension of the chassis. Everybody
knows how the tires bang up and down on the curbs. Now don't tell me the
springs are way too stiff. Even a stiff spring would squeeze and elongate at
those forces. The nose as seen from the cockpit does not move even 1 mm up
or down. How are supposed to feel how hard we are braking ? By the digits ?
Also the rotational velocity of the tire is awful, it is NOT in sync with
the lateral velocity of the car. That also makes the brand on it readable at
300 km/h ! . And no feedback squeels from the tires ? Oh, sure, after you
lost all the control.
"Hovercraft" ? I couldn't agree more. Thanks, Jagg : ))))
If you like F1RC physics, I am glad you do. Aren't we all after personal
satisfaction ? My point is to give my constructive critisicm to sim
developers so that they can come up with improvements when releasing new
titles. I am not here to continue to further critisize a sim you like and to
look like a flamer. I am stopping it here. I wish I could like F1RC too.
PS: I used no-aids (expert) and tried many setups. Still hopeless. :(
Jagg <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:39 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. > > I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different > physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have > wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality > of the physics engine.><[email hidden]> wrote
> PS: I used no-aids (expert) and tried many setups. Still hopeless. :(
It's all understandable. All those people praising F1RC must have found a
secret realism level that we have yet to find. I did some physics test at
Interlagos yesterday and it was disgusting. I can floor it in any gear, and
never spin. Near T6, try to get up the small cliff (barely 20degree slope),
you can't! It doesn't want to climb it. Try to loose it into the downhill
fast left turn (like Montoya and others have done), it's impossible, you
just floor it and never really think of that possibility, within the F1RC's
physics. They are just out of this world. Braking points are all messed
up, and the fastest laptimes are in the 1:06-1:08.
Who cares for fancy graphics and nice track accuracy? (even if they put
grandstands where there is not). It's not even a good hotlapper.
Ridiculous.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Frankie
Evidence at last that you are superhuman! You can floor it in any gear at
Interlagos and never spin - wow!! Please tell me your technique, as with
any decently fast setup I'm struggling with the back end in T3 (always needs
a little lift off), T4 and T5 T7 and well actually T8 isn't so good either
and well ..... !
What sort of times are you getting with your 'floor it in any gear'
technique? Can you send me the ghosts and the setups? I would really
appreciate some help here.
Iain
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:hAHx6.502744$[email hidden]...
> ><[email hidden]> wrote
> > PS: I used no-aids (expert) and tried many setups. Still hopeless. :(
>
> It's all understandable. All those people praising F1RC must have found a
> secret realism level that we have yet to find. I did some physics test at
> Interlagos yesterday and it was disgusting. I can floor it in any gear,and
> never spin. Near T6, try to get up the small cliff (barely 20degreeslope),
> you can't! It doesn't want to climb it. Try to loose it into thedownhill
> fast left turn (like Montoya and others have done), it's impossible, you
> just floor it and never really think of that possibility, within theF1RC's
Quoted text (20 lines)
> physics. They are just out of this world. Braking points are all messed > up, and the fastest laptimes are in the 1:06-1:08. > > Who cares for fancy graphics and nice track accuracy? (even if they put > grandstands where there is not). It's not even a good hotlapper. > > Ridiculous. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >>"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Evidence at last that you are superhuman! You can floor it in any gear at
> Interlagos and never spin - wow!! Please tell me your technique
I can't say, Iike I wrote I must be missing that secret realism level. Both
sliders are at 0% help, everything is fully realistic. This is not recent,
every beta build suffered from the same thing. Of course, I have my pedals
setup for that (not linear). I can floor it and it won't spin, and my
laptimes are great.
I didn't tweak anything in the setups except making sure I'm using soft
tyres, and I was lapping Interlagos in the 1:12's. I'm not even pushing the
car. I can do lap after lap after lap and not even fight the car. F1RC
assumes that F1 drivers don't fight the car!
And that cockpit, OMG my eyes still hurt how ugly and blocky it is.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I'm just a fool, but I definitely think something must be wrong. There is
now way you should be able to floor it without spinning.
You have your pedals set up for exponential instead of linear? That may be
part of the problem, but not all of it. It sounds like your pedals aren't
working right with the sim.
1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole
Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting the car.
David G Fisher
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:_POx6.507977$[email hidden]...
> >"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote
> > Evidence at last that you are superhuman! You can floor it in any gearat
> > Interlagos and never spin - wow!! Please tell me your technique
>
>
> I can't say, Iike I wrote I must be missing that secret realism level.Both
> sliders are at 0% help, everything is fully realistic. This is notrecent,
> every beta build suffered from the same thing. Of course, I have mypedals
> setup for that (not linear). I can floor it and it won't spin, and my
> laptimes are great.
>
> I didn't tweak anything in the setups except making sure I'm using soft
> tyres, and I was lapping Interlagos in the 1:12's. I'm not even pushingthe
Quoted text (19 lines)
> car. I can do lap after lap after lap and not even fight the car. F1RC > assumes that F1 drivers don't fight the car! > > > And that cockpit, OMG my eyes still hurt how ugly and blocky it is. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >> 1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole
> Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting the car.
>
> David G Fisher And yet the race today was MUCH slower per lap...if the physics and tracks
are so accurately modeled...shouldn't the world record sim drivers be
approaching
the world record real drivers?
dave henrie
Every sim I've ever seen had hot laps that smashed the true world record
times. Every one. A real life driver wouldn't drive a hot lap in the same
way us sim drivers do. Ever looked at a hot lap from GPL?
At the BH site, you only need to keep two wheels on the curbing to be a
legal lap, which enables a quicker lap time.
That said, the cars do seem to accelerate too fast. That doesn't mean the
physics model is innacurate, but that they may have punched the wrong
numbers into that physics model. There is a patch coming around the 16th,
and in addition to the AI, it will supposedly address the fast lap times.
Dacid G Fisher
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:s7Tx6.663972$[email hidden]...
> > 1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole
> > Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting thecar.
> >
> > David G Fisher
> And yet the race today was MUCH slower per lap...if the physics andtracks
> are so accurately modeled...shouldn't the world record sim drivers be
> approaching
> the world record real drivers?
> dave henrie
>
>
It definitely happened in the demo, but it could have been down to the
driving aids being enabled all the time. However, (even) in the review
at Gamespot UK they mention this happening:
http://www.gamespot.co.uk/stories/reviews/0,2160,2045230,00.html
-Gregor
David G Fisher wrote:
>
> I'm just a fool, but I definitely think something must be wrong. There is
> now way you should be able to floor it without spinning.
>
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes:
It's not unrealistic, they just chose to model the latter part of the
season.
--
-asbjxrn Consultant, n.:
An ordinary man a long way from home.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> >"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Evidence at last that you are superhuman! You can floor it in any gear at > > Interlagos and never spin - wow!! Please tell me your technique > > I can't say, Iike I wrote I must be missing that secret realism level. Both > sliders are at 0% help, everything is fully realistic. This is not recent, > every beta build suffered from the same thing. Of course, I have my pedals > setup for that (not linear). I can floor it and it won't spin, and my > laptimes are great.On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:25:31 GMT, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>I think Indigo must have finally got the hint; haven't seen him for a long
>time. Or maybe he died in a head-on crash when he forgot that real life
>doesn't offer Shift+R...
Lol :) No, I think he changed his nickname.. lately there's another
guy who's often driving the wrong way. I don't understand what the fun
is spoiling a race for numerous other people.
Andre
On Sun, 01 Apr 2001 23:27:54 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Weird, I -can't- floor the throttle at every corner at Brazil Ym.. Au
contraire (ok, my french sucks), my problem with f1rc is that the car
snaps without any warning.
I know f1 cars spin very sudden, but I do think a driver would feel
(more or less) how close to the limit he's driving.
On a pc we need other signs for this: good use of sound, good force
feedback and movement of the cockpit. None of these are there in f1rc
unfortunately.
I want to do those full steering lock manouvres like Montoya did
yesterday in a current F1 sim..
Are you sure your pedals are working correctly in f1rc?
>And that cockpit, OMG my eyes still hurt how ugly and blocky it is.
It's ugly, but while racing you hardly notice, and the moving hands is
a very nice detail..
PS is it normal that I can't switch to a lower gear without braking?
Because I can't..
Andre
Quoted text (10 lines)
>>"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote >> Evidence at last that you are superhuman! You can floor it in any gear at >> Interlagos and never spin - wow!! Please tell me your technique > > >I can't say, Iike I wrote I must be missing that secret realism level. Both >sliders are at 0% help, everything is fully realistic. This is not recent, >every beta build suffered from the same thing. Of course, I have my pedals >setup for that (not linear). I can floor it and it won't spin, and my >laptimes are great.Quoted text (11 lines)
> > >-- >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >-- May the Downforce be with you... >-- http://www.ymenard.com/ >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez >Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 04:05:09 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Yes, but Ymenard said he used default setup with softer tires.
Andre
>David G Fisher
Quoted text (9 lines)
>I'm just a fool, but I definitely think something must be wrong. There is >now way you should be able to floor it without spinning. > >You have your pedals set up for exponential instead of linear? That may be >part of the problem, but not all of it. It sounds like your pedals aren't >working right with the sim. > >1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole >Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting the car.On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 04:21:44 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Exactly..
Fastest qual lap 1999: Hakkinen 1.16.568
Fastest race lap 1999: Hakkinen 1:18.448
Sorry, but 8-10 seconds faster than the real life record clearly shows
-something- is wrong here..
Andre
Quoted text (9 lines)
>> 1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole >> Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting the car. >> >> David G Fisher > And yet the race today was MUCH slower per lap...if the physics and tracks >are so accurately modeled...shouldn't the world record sim drivers be >approaching >the world record real drivers? >dave henrieOn Mon, 02 Apr 2001 04:36:20 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
Indeed, I can't imagine they took Monaco's hairpin or Spa's Masta as
fast as we do, because of the 99% death risk the first time you try
it.
But I do think it's different with a current F1 sim: the track are not
as ridiculously dangerous as they used to be anymore, and I don't see
why we can drive a much faster lap in a sim than in real life.
If we can take 10 seconds off by driving with 2 wheels off the road,
then surely this could be done in real life if the sim was so
realistic?
>That said, the cars do seem to accelerate too fast. That doesn't mean the
>physics model is innacurate, but that they may have punched the wrong
>numbers into that physics model. There is a patch coming around the 16th,
>and in addition to the AI, it will supposedly address the fast lap times.
>
>Dacid G Fisher
Sounds like a job for Veble and Bodin..
Gentleman.. please please please please please?
Andre
Quoted text (7 lines)
>Every sim I've ever seen had hot laps that smashed the true world record >times. Every one. A real life driver wouldn't drive a hot lap in the same >way us sim drivers do. Ever looked at a hot lap from GPL? > >At the BH site, you only need to keep two wheels on the curbing to be a >legal lap, which enables a quicker lap time. >On 02 Apr 2001 09:31:43 +0200, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn
Bj�rnstad) wrote:
>It's not unrealistic, they just chose to model the latter part of the
>season.
>--
> -asbjxrn Consultant, n.:
> An ordinary man a long way from home.
Hi Mr. "I kicked Andre's butt at the Monza GP yesterday" Bjornstad,
You are talking about the current season and the traction control that
will be allowed later this season?
F1RC simulates the 1999 season. Or was there something later in the
'99 season which helped the drivers?
Andre
Yes, but we all know that Frankie is not of the human race! Mere mortals
slide all over the place at Interlagos if we 'floor it' in the way Frankie
describes.
Shurely shomething wrong here!
Iain
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
be
> >part of the problem, but not all of it. It sounds like your pedals aren't
> >working right with the sim.
> >
> >1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole
> >Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting thecar.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 04:05:09 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I'm just a fool, but I definitely think something must be wrong. There is > >now way you should be able to floor it without spinning. > > > >You have your pedals set up for exponential instead of linear? That mayQuoted text (8 lines)
> > Yes, but Ymenard said he used default setup with softer tires. > > Andre > > > >David G Fisher >All I can say is that GP3 feels like you are driving in glue compared to
F1RC. I honestly don't know what is going on with ymenard.
David G Fisher
"Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
is
> > now way you should be able to floor it without spinning.
> >
Quoted text (11 lines)
> It definitely happened in the demo, but it could have been down to the > driving aids being enabled all the time. However, (even) in the review > at Gamespot UK they mention this happening: > > http://www.gamespot.co.uk/stories/reviews/0,2160,2045230,00.html > > -Gregor > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I'm just a fool, but I definitely think something must be wrong. ThereIt's a mystery to me too! This whole thing of 'flooring it' round
Interlagos is pretty weird!
Iain
> All I can say is that GP3 feels like you are driving in glue compared to
> F1RC. I honestly don't know what is going on with ymenard.
>
> David G Fisher
>
Have you done much with setups? The rear end should not be breaking free
with no warning.
David G Fisher
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2001 23:27:54 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> >>"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote
> >> Evidence at last that you are superhuman! You can floor it in any gearat
> >> Interlagos and never spin - wow!! Please tell me your technique
> >
> >
> >I can't say, Iike I wrote I must be missing that secret realism level.Both
> >sliders are at 0% help, everything is fully realistic. This is notrecent,
> >every beta build suffered from the same thing. Of course, I have mypedals
Quoted text (39 lines)
> >setup for that (not linear). I can floor it and it won't spin, and my > >laptimes are great. > > Weird, I -can't- floor the throttle at every corner at Brazil Ym.. Au > contraire (ok, my french sucks), my problem with f1rc is that the car > snaps without any warning. > I know f1 cars spin very sudden, but I do think a driver would feel > (more or less) how close to the limit he's driving. > On a pc we need other signs for this: good use of sound, good force > feedback and movement of the cockpit. None of these are there in f1rc > unfortunately. > I want to do those full steering lock manouvres like Montoya did > yesterday in a current F1 sim.. > > Are you sure your pedals are working correctly in f1rc? > > >And that cockpit, OMG my eyes still hurt how ugly and blocky it is. > > It's ugly, but while racing you hardly notice, and the moving hands is > a very nice detail.. > > PS is it normal that I can't switch to a lower gear without braking? > Because I can't.. > > Andre > > > > > > > >-- > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > >-- May the Downforce be with you... > >-- http://www.ymenard.com/ > >-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > >Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > >[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:
I seem to recall that you didn't have much problem passing me, and then
disappearing into the distance, er..armoco. :-)
> You are talking about the current season and the traction control that
> will be allowed later this season?
Yes.
> F1RC simulates the 1999 season. Or was there something later in the
> '99 season which helped the drivers?
Oops. Well, I only tried the demo briefly. I'll shut up now.
--
-asbjxrn Consultant, n.:
An ordinary man a long way from home.
Quoted text (7 lines)
> On 02 Apr 2001 09:31:43 +0200, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn > Bj�rnstad) wrote: > > >It's not unrealistic, they just chose to model the latter part of the > >season. > > Hi Mr. "I kicked Andre's butt at the Monza GP yesterday" Bjornstad, Tractiion control was in 1999. It just wasn't legal is all.
Traction control was also in place in 2000, just because it was a violation
of the rules didn't prevent it's use.
dave henrie
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (18 lines)
> On 02 Apr 2001 09:31:43 +0200, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn > Bj�rnstad) wrote: > > >It's not unrealistic, they just chose to model the latter part of the > >season. > >-- > > -asbjxrn Consultant, n.: > > An ordinary man a long way from home. > > > Hi Mr. "I kicked Andre's butt at the Monza GP yesterday" Bjornstad, > > You are talking about the current season and the traction control that > will be allowed later this season? > F1RC simulates the 1999 season. Or was there something later in the > '99 season which helped the drivers? > > AndreOn Mon, 02 Apr 2001 19:50:57 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>All I can say is that GP3 feels like you are driving in glue compared to
>F1RC.
That's because the wheels are actually touching the ground in GP3.
Actually, the feeling in GP3 is as if driving on very hard yet grippy
tires. It's something I talked about a while ago, and was the only thing
bothering me about GP3 physics. Now that there's a physics editor out,
one can tweak the stiffness of the tires to make it more in accord with
real world data (so that the tires slip at around 5 degrees when on the
limit, give or take a few), or the real life footage, and this angle
turned out to be most likely 2 to 3 times too small in the original
version. Now you can really feel the car drift, especially under power.
-Gregor
David G Fisher wrote:
>
> All I can say is that GP3 feels like you are driving in glue compared to
> F1RC. I honestly don't know what is going on with ymenard.
>
> David G Fisher
>
Interestingly enough, I went back to F1CS after spending 2 weeks solidly on
F1RC and it felt like driving a truck! The kerbs were pathetic - very
forgiving and totally flat. The whole experience of driving around Imola
was not good at all!
After F1RC, F1CS seemed too easy, the car felt like it was almost on rails
which is something I didn't ever feel pre-F1RC.
Despite the unrealistic lap times (what sims don't have much faster times
than real life?) and the erratic AI (at times), F1RC is a vastly superior
experience.
Iain
"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:yR6y6.15904$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (12 lines)
> It's a mystery to me too! This whole thing of 'flooring it' round > Interlagos is pretty weird! > Iain > > > All I can say is that GP3 feels like you are driving in glue compared to > > F1RC. I honestly don't know what is going on with ymenard. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > >Yep. Agree with you both. I can understand how PC systems and driver
preferences can vary greatly, but struggle to understand how it can feel SO
different. I find myself constantly fighting the back end of a Williams in
F1RC. Maybe it is my setup that is wrong - but I enjoy it too much to want
to change it :-)
to
> > > F1RC. I honestly don't know what is going on with ymenard.
> > >
> > > David G Fisher
Quoted text (7 lines)
> "Iain Mackenzie" wrote: > > It's a mystery to me too! This whole thing of 'flooring it' round > > Interlagos is pretty weird! > > Iain > > > > > All I can say is that GP3 feels like you are driving in glue compared Interestingly enough, I tried F1RC after spending months and months solidly
on
F1CS and it felt like driving an hovercraft ! The grip levels were
pathetic - very
forgiving and totally unpredictable. The whole experience of driving
around Imola
was not good at all!
After F1CS, F1RC seemed too easy, the car felt like it was almost floating
above the tarmac
which is something I didn't ever feel on any sim.
I just filled in the blanks my way. ;)
It's very interesting how people can have very different opinions especially
considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close to the
real thing as you can get on a PC.
Prior to the release of F1RC, I too spent months on F1CS (and F12K before
it) from the day they were released and there was no doubt in my mind that
it was a great experience - undoubtedly the best modern F1 sim out there. I
have defended both EA titles many times in this group over the last year or
so.
However, compared with F1RC I think F1CS doesn't quite cut it anymore. What
is interesting is how I can say that the kerbs in F1RC have height (where
they are supposed to) and are very unforgiving in terms of losing control
(again in the right places), and in F1CS I now believe that they are all
flat and can be rolled over as much as you like without losing grip! You,
however, have almost the opposite view which is rather interesting. We
can't both be right! I guess that's why we have RAS, eh!
If you watch real drivers on Imola (or any circuit) they know what margins
they have at each individual kerb on the circuit as some are more severe
than others, and that is what F1RC has that F1CS doesn't in my view.
On the 'hovercraft' issue, this is something I don't really understand
either. I can only assume that you must be referring to the fact that the
view in F1RC is somewhat higher than F1CS and you see more of the track
giving the 'hovering' impression. I hadn't noticed that difference until I
went back to F1CS. I suspect that it's not important if you only use F1RC
and not jump back and fore - I certainly had no problem with this 'issue'.
Iain
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9adc0m$r6q$[email hidden]...
> Interestingly enough, I tried F1RC after spending months and monthssolidly
floating
Quoted text (7 lines)
> on > F1CS and it felt like driving an hovercraft ! The grip levels were > pathetic - very > forgiving and totally unpredictable. The whole experience of driving > around Imola > was not good at all! > After F1CS, F1RC seemed too easy, the car felt like it was almostQuoted text (7 lines)
> above the tarmac > which is something I didn't ever feel on any sim. > > I just filled in the blanks my way. ;) > > >On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:34:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
>It's very interesting how people can have very different opinions especially
>considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close to the
>real thing as you can get on a PC.
Could be big difference be that some people use F1CS' chassis patch
and some people don't? The chassis patch makes a BIG difference, F1CS
becomes much harder (and much more enjoyable :)
Andre
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:34:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >It's very interesting how people can have very different opinionsespecially
> >considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close tothe
I think your on to something here. The default physics in F1CS are very easy
to drive. Now at first is was not easy but after using the Advance chassis
patch from John Bodin for a few months the default physics are easy and do
seem like your driving a car on rails.
I think if everyone tried driving F1CS with the chassis patch they would
have a different opinion on the driving on rails feeling as well as thinking
the cars are easy to drive.
For the past 3 weeks I have been trying to really like F1RC because of all
the post from people saying it's the best. I put in about an hour or so a
night driving the car and working on a good setup. I just can't seem to like
it, the cars feel so dead of feedback as to the state of the car compared to
F1CS Patched. I also don't get the immersion factor with all the silly
arcade displays on the screen that I can't seem to turn off an the steering
wheels just don't look right. The view for the cockpit is too high and I
don't feel like I am tucked in low like the real drivers. I think even F1CS
is a little to high but not as bad as F1RC
I really don't know how to explain it but when I drive F1RC I feel like I am
playing a game and don't really feel like I am in a simulation of an F1 Car.
Just my thought on this, not trying to change anyone's opinion. As long as
you enjoy your favorite it doesn't matter what other people think.
----------
Murchman
Quoted text (7 lines)
> >real thing as you can get on a PC. > > Could be big difference be that some people use F1CS' chassis patch > and some people don't? The chassis patch makes a BIG difference, F1CS > becomes much harder (and much more enjoyable :) > > Andre>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> It sounds like your pedals aren't working right with the sim.
Yeah it must be my config, not the sim <roll-eyes>
> 1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole
> Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting the car.
It's still bloody faster then real-life times of 1999. Something is wrong,
verrrrrryyy wrong...
Oh wait, you said F1RC had excellent multiplayer. Case closed.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Every sim I've ever seen had hot laps
Just 1 post before by you in the thread, as you have a short memory :
"1:12's are about four seconds off the lap record at the Blackhole
Motorsports hot lap page. That's probably why you're not fighting the car."
Yep, I just go in an easy mood of normal laps without even pushing the car
at all, not fighting in any corner (anyway the car really has no sense of
power exiting the corners like a real F1). Compare those times to the ones
in 1999 at Interlagos. There is severe flaws. I'm close to stop playing
it, it's a waste of time.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
>"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Despite the unrealistic lap times (what sims don't have much faster times
> than real life?) and the erratic AI (at times), F1RC is a vastly superior
> experience.
Nobody disagree with that, but it's still poor.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
>"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Yes, but we all know that Frankie is not of the human race!
I am ZOD's venerable son. Thou shall knee upon me :)
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
>mutliplayer in GPL ?
Simply put, NO.
I took a look back and I've got replays and standings/laps files
from online races from about 30 days after GPL was released (released
9/30/98 in the US). (And it was going on before I jumped into it.)
The patches added some enhancements (most notably dedicated
servers, making a lot more races available), but I think for a
majority of us, the online GPL experience has been great from day one.
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:02:34 GMT, [email hidden] (Jeff Vincent)
wrote:
Well.. it took me a couple of months after the release of GPL before I
even dared to show my face on the track online..
No WinVROC back then, we had to use some java applet on the vroc site,
but it worked fantastic from the first day I tried it.
I remember my first race was a Monza race with a full grid, and I was
totally amazed.
After that experience, what a bummer it was when I tried the
multiplayer of GP3 (oh wait, it didn't have online multiplayer), F1CS
and F1RC. People don't learn from the past it seems.. :(
Andre
Quoted text (14 lines)
>On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT >>mutliplayer in GPL ? > > Simply put, NO. > > I took a look back and I've got replays and standings/laps files >from online races from about 30 days after GPL was released (released >9/30/98 in the US). (And it was going on before I jumped into it.) > > The patches added some enhancements (most notably dedicated >servers, making a lot more races available), but I think for a >majority of us, the online GPL experience has been great from day one.>>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
>>mutliplayer in GPL ?
> Simply put, NO.
Agreed. GPL 1.0 was excellent. The only online trouble I've ever had was
with the buggy v1.1 patch.
--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash
The multiplayer sucked for a lot of people for a long time (disconnects all
over the place). You couldn't host more than one or two cars on a dial-up
modem (other racing games at that time allowed you to have up to eight). Me
and a racing friend of mine from England used to race online all the time,
but GPL was absolutely impossible for us. As Allison Hine told me and
others, GPL was not designed for TCP/IP (only LAN). It wasn't until near the
end of beta testing that Papyrus had their mind changed by the testers.
Multiplayer is one of the last things a developer works on in a racing sim
(whether we like it or not). Only a small % of people who buy these sims
race online, and even fewer race online regularly. F1RC is a far more
feature filled sim than GPL, and a lot of work was done in just the two
years (maybe less) since MGPRS2. They worked on GPL for four years?
F1RC has FAR more detailed and complex graphics than GPL. It's also an
extremely smooth running graphics engine. No comparison.
It takes a lot of time to model the tracks the way Ubi did using GPS.
F1RC has weather (kind of important and fairly complex).
F1RC has pitting (kind of important).
F1RC has force feedback (GPL was out for a year before it appeared).
F1RC has tire wear.
F1RC has adjustable levels of difficulty and AI.
F1RC has telemetry.
Lots of little details like radio to the pits, rubber build up and grip
change. Dry line develops during rain, etc.
Ubi Soft could have eliminated the above features and had more time for
multiplayer, but for most people, that would not be a welcomed decision.
Also, F1 has restricted them in what they could do with the multiplayer (why
do you think you can't type a TCP/IP address directly into the multiplayer
screen?), so that may have put it even farther down on the list of
priorities.
How about giving Ubi Soft some time to work on the multiplayer? They DO know
how to do it and do it well. POD was released four years ago, and was
excellent online (very few here at r.a.s. were even considering online
racing back then). I competed in a $10,000 tournament which awarded Voodoo
cards to people who finished in the top 20, and $10,000 to the winner. They
wouldn't have bothered with that tournament if the results were able to be
questioned due to poor net play.
It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
David G Fisher
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (29 lines)
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:02:34 GMT, [email hidden] (Jeff Vincent) > wrote: > > >On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:13:36 GMT, "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT > >>mutliplayer in GPL ? > > > > Simply put, NO. > > > > I took a look back and I've got replays and standings/laps files > >from online races from about 30 days after GPL was released (released > >9/30/98 in the US). (And it was going on before I jumped into it.) > > > > The patches added some enhancements (most notably dedicated > >servers, making a lot more races available), but I think for a > >majority of us, the online GPL experience has been great from day one. > > Well.. it took me a couple of months after the release of GPL before I > even dared to show my face on the track online.. > No WinVROC back then, we had to use some java applet on the vroc site, > but it worked fantastic from the first day I tried it. > I remember my first race was a Monza race with a full grid, and I was > totally amazed. > After that experience, what a bummer it was when I tried the > multiplayer of GP3 (oh wait, it didn't have online multiplayer), F1CS > and F1RC. People don't learn from the past it seems.. :( > > AndreWould you like to try a setup for Imola and see if it helps you with the
feel of the car?
David G Fisher
"Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9af4d5$4mfv5$[email hidden]...
easy
> to drive. Now at first is was not easy but after using the Advance chassis
> patch from John Bodin for a few months the default physics are easy and do
> seem like your driving a car on rails.
>
> I think if everyone tried driving F1CS with the chassis patch they would
> have a different opinion on the driving on rails feeling as well asthinking
> the cars are easy to drive.
>
> For the past 3 weeks I have been trying to really like F1RC because of all
> the post from people saying it's the best. I put in about an hour or so a
> night driving the car and working on a good setup. I just can't seem tolike
> it, the cars feel so dead of feedback as to the state of the car comparedto
> F1CS Patched. I also don't get the immersion factor with all the silly
> arcade displays on the screen that I can't seem to turn off an thesteering
> wheels just don't look right. The view for the cockpit is too high and I
> don't feel like I am tucked in low like the real drivers. I think evenF1CS
> is a little to high but not as bad as F1RC
>
> I really don't know how to explain it but when I drive F1RC I feel like Iam
> playing a game and don't really feel like I am in a simulation of an F1Car.
Quoted text (19 lines)
> > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:34:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >It's very interesting how people can have very different opinions > especially > > >considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close to > the > > >real thing as you can get on a PC. > > > > Could be big difference be that some people use F1CS' chassis patch > > and some people don't? The chassis patch makes a BIG difference, F1CS > > becomes much harder (and much more enjoyable :) > > > > Andre > > I think your on to something here. The default physics in F1CS are veryQuoted text (8 lines)
> > Just my thought on this, not trying to change anyone's opinion. As long as > you enjoy your favorite it doesn't matter what other people think. > > ---------- > Murchman > >Possible but not likely because I've been using the all-chassis patch since
it came out! I agree it did make a big difference. However .........
Iain
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:34:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >It's very interesting how people can have very different opinionsespecially
> >considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close tothe
Quoted text (7 lines)
> >real thing as you can get on a PC. > > Could be big difference be that some people use F1CS' chassis patch > and some people don't? The chassis patch makes a BIG difference, F1CS > becomes much harder (and much more enjoyable :) > > AndreOn Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:08:54 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> It wasn't until near the
>end of beta testing that Papyrus had their mind changed by the testers.
Thank God they did, I wonder if GPL would still be as populair as it
is now without the multiplayer..
>and a lot of work was done in just the two
>years (maybe less) since MGPRS2. They worked on GPL for four years?
Yes but that is completely irrelevant I think.. when we are discussing
the quality of a game, development time is no excuse/defense..
>F1RC has FAR more detailed and complex graphics than GPL. It's also an
>extremely smooth running graphics engine. No comparison.
Absolutely. It wouldn't be good if a new game would have worse
graphics than a 2.5 year old game :)
Seriously, the graphics of F1RC are the best ever seen in a racing
sim.
>F1RC has weather (kind of important and fairly complex).Yes, but not as good as GP3.
>F1RC has force feedback (GPL was out for a year before it appeared).But the ff in F1RC is b-a-a-a-d.. compare it with GPL's ff..
>F1RC has tire wear.For a modern F1 sim, very important. It would be nice if GPL would
have this, but as you know, tires lasted a whole racing weekend in
that time.
>F1RC has adjustable levels of difficulty and AI.GPL worked different: as you got faster, the AI got faster. Nice idea
which didn't work well in reality, but thankfully an AI tweaker was
released for this.
But.. let's not discuss the AI of F1RC anymore before the patch
arrives ok? :)
<snip>
>It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
>newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
David, this is nonsense. GPL is 2.5 years old. Is has set new
standards in the field of multiplayer, force feedback and physics.
Now, 2.5 years later, sims are being released with lacking
multiplayer, crappy, totally useless force feedback, and the physics
of some of the newest racing sims is discussable to say the least.
The difference is, after 2.5 years we are expecting new sims to be
better. Yet every new sim disappoints again. I expect good multiplayer
(that means a full field!), force feedback that tells me what the car
is doing, physics that give me the feeling that I'm actually racing in
an F1 car.
Papyrus released GPL, and -with the help of the community- it has
become the best racing sim, both offline and online, so far.
Therefore they get the respect they deserve.
But that doesn't make them holy.. read the N3 and N4 posts, you'll see
what I mean.
I expect developers to learn from other games. GP3 has been out for a
year now? That's how variable weather should be done.
GPL is out for 2.5 years now. That's how multiplayer and force
feedback should be done.
Err.. can't think of a good AI example actually..
'they had only 2 years to develop F1RC' is no excuse.
It would be fantastic if Ubi would make a decent multiplayer, AI and
force feedback for F1RC, I can only hope they will, but without those
three, F1RC is severly lacking. Is has the potential to become the
best modern F1 sim, while playing the demo I was sure it would be,
that's why it was such a disappointment when I tried the AI or
multiplayer.
Let's wait untill april 16th and see what Ubi has in store for us.
Andre
>David G Fisher
On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:11:16 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Would you like to try a setup for Imola and see if it helps you with the
>feel of the car?
>
>David G Fisher
Yes please, maybe my setups give me a wrong feedback.. please mail it
to: [email hidden]
Andre
"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
I seriously doubt it. I ran one championship (novice) against the AI and
haven't raced them since. Once you get a taste of online competition it's
pretty hard to go back to computer opponents.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:08:54 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > It wasn't until near the > >end of beta testing that Papyrus had their mind changed by the testers. > > Thank God they did, I wonder if GPL would still be as populair as it > is now without the multiplayer..>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> How about giving Ubi Soft some time to work on the multiplayer?
But wait, you said the multiplayer was excellent.
> It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
> newsgroup.
Who cares? I'll treat whoever I want the way I want.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I said with six players or less it was excellent.
It is. At least it has been for me.
I also said, "Nobody loves
online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six
quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who
either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely
ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
commit to a set time to race others."
David G Fisher
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:BIQy6.520369$[email hidden]...
this
Quoted text (9 lines)
> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > How about giving Ubi Soft some time to work on the multiplayer? > > > But wait, you said the multiplayer was excellent. > > > > > It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated onQuoted text (17 lines)
> > newsgroup. > > Who cares? I'll treat whoever I want the way I want. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:08:54 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>The multiplayer sucked for a lot of people for a long time (disconnects all
>over the place).
So you say, David. You and...
>Ubi Soft could have eliminated the above features and had more time for
>multiplayer, but for most people, that would not be a welcomed decision.
If it doesn't have MP, it better have something else pretty darn
interesting, or I'm not buying. I think "a lot of people" are of the
same mind, going by your definition above.
>It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
>newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
Oh, I'm gonna cry now.
PS - Just got 1NSANE today after playing the demo for two weeks.
What will Papyrus do, with me two-timing them? :)
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre
Warringa) writes:
It's a 2-year old mentality... :(
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (7 lines)
>>I think Indigo must have finally got the hint; haven't seen him for a long >>time. Or maybe he died in a head-on crash when he forgot that real life >>doesn't offer Shift+R... > >Lol :) No, I think he changed his nickname.. lately there's another >guy who's often driving the wrong way. I don't understand what the fun >is spoiling a race for numerous other people.In article <2IOy6.1670$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams"
<[email hidden]> writes:
>> Thank God they did, I wonder if GPL would still be as populair as it
>> is now without the multiplayer..
>
>I seriously doubt it. I ran one championship (novice) against the AI and
>haven't raced them since. Once you get a taste of online competition it's
>pretty hard to go back to computer opponents.
No it isn't. At least against the AI I can occasionally WIN...<g>
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
"Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
It does have multiplayer. Fire up F1.R.S.T., and you'll find people racing.
Give me your estimation of the % and number of people who've bought N4
because they wanted a sim to race online, and wouldn't have done so if it
didn't provide that option.
> >It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated onthis
> >newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
>
> Oh, I'm gonna cry now.
Don't cry. They're just games.
David G Fisher
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:08:54 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >Ubi Soft could have eliminated the above features and had more time for > >multiplayer, but for most people, that would not be a welcomed decision. > > If it doesn't have MP, it better have something else pretty darn > interesting, or I'm not buying. I think "a lot of people" are of the > same mind, going by your definition above.On 05 Apr 2001 04:15:20 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:
Ah, another AITweak user :))
Andre
Quoted text (11 lines)
>In article <2IOy6.1670$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>> Thank God they did, I wonder if GPL would still be as populair as it >>> is now without the multiplayer.. >> >>I seriously doubt it. I ran one championship (novice) against the AI and >>haven't raced them since. Once you get a taste of online competition it's >>pretty hard to go back to computer opponents. > >No it isn't. At least against the AI I can occasionally WIN...<g>Quoted text (9 lines)
>Eldred >-- >Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 03:43:38 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
David, here's the problem with a max of 6 drivers.
Look, most GPL races I join have more than 10 drivers, very often I
have a full grid. Some of the drivers are newbies, some are mediocore
and some are good drivers.
With good drivers I don't mean fast drivers, but I mean drivers who
can keep the car on the road and know racing behaviour.
If GPL would only allow 6 drivers to enter, the margin of good drivers
would only become smaller!
Another thing is league races. I'm in a league with 20 drivers. We
race every 2 weeks. Allthough some drivers are faster than other
drivers in our league, the racing behaviour of all our members is
excellent.
Our full grid races are often very exciting.
If GPL would only allow a max of 6 drivers, I don't think the races
would have the same excitement they have now with 20 drivers.
If I spin, I can still have some good fights with backmarkers.
With 6 drivers, if I would spin, it would be a very lonely and boring
race.
By the way, how often did you have good connection with 6 drivers in
F1RC?
I did quite some online testing, and 4 drivers was really the maximum
I could get in F1RC. With 5 or more drivers, races become unplayable
with way too much warping.
Andre
Quoted text (14 lines)
>I said with six players or less it was excellent. > >It is. At least it has been for me. > >I also said, "Nobody loves >online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of >cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online >racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six >quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who >either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely >ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot >commit to a set time to race others." > >David G Fisher
>It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
>newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
Two sets of software companies. As soon as the other companies give us a
product we (in general) enjoy as much as a Papy sim, they will be
treated the same on this ng.
--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 05:28:13 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
OK, let me clarify the just plain "MP" above to "MP as good or
better than I'm already playing" (after all, you don't want to buy a
new game with VGA graphics or keyboard-only control, right?).
Going from 20 to 6 is not an improvement.
Andre gave a very good explanation of why bigger grids are better,
particularly when they are full of competent, dedicated racers.
Pickup races are like fast food; they get the job done, but you really
haven't eaten until you've had a gourmet meal. :)
And along the lines of "something pretty darn interesting", I got
1NSANE because I'm interested in its MP games like capture the flag...
something that no other racing game/sim offers (at least that I'm
aware of), even though it's MP is limited to 8 players.
>Give me your estimation of the % and number of people who've bought N4
>because they wanted a sim to race online, and wouldn't have done so if it
>didn't provide that option.
Just a few percent. Probably about the same as those who had
connection problems with GPL? :)
Funny, the way some people carry a chip on their shoulder about
certain companies, you'd wonder... ;)
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
Quoted text (13 lines)
>"Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:08:54 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: > >> >Ubi Soft could have eliminated the above features and had more time for >> >multiplayer, but for most people, that would not be a welcomed decision. >> >> If it doesn't have MP, it better have something else pretty darn >> interesting, or I'm not buying. I think "a lot of people" are of the >> same mind, going by your definition above. > >It does have multiplayer. Fire up F1.R.S.T., and you'll find people racing.Quoted text (7 lines)
>> >It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on >this >> >newsgroup. Two sets of rules. >> >> Oh, I'm gonna cry now. > >Don't cry. They're just games.In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre
Warringa) writes:
Not at all. I just set my player.sts file to read-only. I consider that to be
a bit different...
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>>>I seriously doubt it. I ran one championship (novice) against the AI and >>>haven't raced them since. Once you get a taste of online competition it's >>>pretty hard to go back to computer opponents. >> >>No it isn't. At least against the AI I can occasionally WIN...<g> > >Ah, another AITweak user :)) >Your too much ymenard..lol You have alwayz made me laugh when you
want to get down to the "nitty gritty".. Good Goin'.. hahahaha
Thom_j.
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:BIQy6.520369$[email hidden]...
this
Quoted text (9 lines)
| >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote | > How about giving Ubi Soft some time to work on the multiplayer? | | | But wait, you said the multiplayer was excellent. | | | | > It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated onQuoted text (17 lines)
| > newsgroup. | | Who cares? I'll treat whoever I want the way I want. | | | | | | -- | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> | -- May the Downforce be with you... | -- http://www.ymenard.com/ | -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez | Corporation - helping America into the New World... | | |Yup this is true. Graeme really could fly around the tracks online
back in GPL 1.0. The show off..lol Honestly tho' he was/is fast!
He also was nice enuff to help us slow'pokes!! Thanx Graeme!!
Thom_j.
"Graeme Nash" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (11 lines)
| >>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT | >>mutliplayer in GPL ? | | > Simply put, NO. | | Agreed. GPL 1.0 was excellent. The only online trouble I've ever had was | with the buggy v1.1 patch. | | -- | Cheers! | Graeme NashYou make a few valid points below, I'll mostly just argue the ones that
I don't agree on.
David G Fisher wrote:
>
> F1RC has FAR more detailed and complex graphics than GPL. It's also an
> extremely smooth running graphics engine. No comparison.
>
Of course it does. I do remember that GPL took my breath away when I
first saw it, though. It's been quite a while when it was released, and
you know it. It also ran perfectly smooth as long as there were no AI
around, even on my P200 V1 system at the time. It was the AI
calculations that bogged it down (much like in Nascar 4), but the AI at
least works.
>
> It takes a lot of time to model the tracks the way Ubi did using GPS.
>
It might, but what's the point? The tracks in GPL far more than do the
trick, and Nurburgring is probably the best/largest track ever modelled
in a racing sim. I don't think any track for F1 RC took as long to model
as that. Again, it's the end result that matters, not the time spent,
that's their problem.
>
> F1RC has weather (kind of important and fairly complex).
>
True, something we all miss in GPL.
>
> F1RC has pitting (kind of important).
>
Maybe in modern F1, but it isn't as important in the season modelled in
GPL. If you have an incident free race, there is absolutely no reason to
pit in GPL. The programming effort was better spent elsewhere (like
physics)
>
> F1RC has force feedback (GPL was out for a year before it appeared).
>
If you call FF effects in F1RC force feedback, then McDonald's must be
gourmet food. It has nothing to do with the grip of the front tires, and
GPL is way ahead of it. You must also know that the FF wheels have
become standard only recently, and way after GPL was first released (as
far as I recall, MS wheel was the leading one at the time, and that one,
according to the reports, seems to suffer from processor taxing and
latency the most even today). Also, I've added support for FF in my sim
in one day, so it's not all that big of a deal to do it, you only need
to want (and know how) to do it properly.
>
> F1RC has tire wear.
>
Again, not really an issue in the season modelled in GPL (unless you
constantly overdrive, which you wouldn't in a long race), so it was
hardly necessary to spend time on it.
>
> F1RC has adjustable levels of difficulty and AI.
>
Adjusting AI that doesn't work quite as it should doesn't do you much
good, does it? I'll give you the properly adjustable difficulty as not
being true for GPL; but, then again, this is rec.autos.simulators,
right?
>
> F1RC has telemetry.
>
True, GPL doesn't have it. I can't believe Papyrus didn't model the
complex computers they used in 1967!
>
> It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
> newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
>
If you check the above points, you'll notice why. Papyrus tend to spend
their efforts where it really matters, and never fail to provide
comprehensive simulations of the series they model (taking the
capabilities of the machines they run on at the time into account). F1
RC might have its looks, but strange faults in physics modelling, AI and
ff effects don't give it that quality that Papy products have. It's that
simple.
And all of the above is even before I go into comparing F1 RC to Nascar
4, which would be a far more appropriate comparison considering the
respective release dates.
-Gregor
On 05 Apr 2001 19:28:55 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:
Yes, but in that case, why don;t you use AITweak? With that you can
match the AI speed per track to the speed you like. By settings the
player.sts to read-only, I guess you have a fast AI at some tracks and
a slow AI at other tracks..
Andre
Quoted text (14 lines)
>In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre >Warringa) writes: > >>>>I seriously doubt it. I ran one championship (novice) against the AI and >>>>haven't raced them since. Once you get a taste of online competition it's >>>>pretty hard to go back to computer opponents. >>> >>>No it isn't. At least against the AI I can occasionally WIN...<g> >> >>Ah, another AITweak user :)) >> > >Not at all. I just set my player.sts file to read-only. I consider that to be >a bit different...Quoted text (9 lines)
>Eldred >-- >Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.Here is a reply I got in e-mail, but I figured I should repost it here,
as it was most likely intended to be sent here instead. below is my
reply to him. (if you can understand it, Ben)
Exactly:
http://www.camtp.uni-mb.si/camtp/veble/sims/readme.html
;)
-Gregor
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Grogor Verble wrote: > > > > Also, I've added support for FF in my sim > >in one day, so it's not all that big of a deal to do it, you only need > >to want (and know how) to do it properly. > > > >> > > Probably only true is the sim in question models realistic forces from the > tyre up through the suspension. > > Ben >In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre
Warringa) writes:
I was trying to win without doing that. Yes, I know that it performs the
function of an adjustable AI setting. It's an ego thing, I guess.
Actually, I've recently used it to speed up the really slow cars. Closure rate
is pretty serious with cars that can be 20 seconds slower(!) per lap.
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (9 lines)
>>Not at all. I just set my player.sts file to read-only. I consider that to >be >>a bit different... > >Yes, but in that case, why don;t you use AITweak? With that you can >match the AI speed per track to the speed you like. By settings the >player.sts to read-only, I guess you have a fast AI at some tracks and >a slow AI at other tracks.. >I'm pretty sure you don't even have F1RC, but I'll reply anyway. I also
don't think you understood the point of my previous post. It was simply to
advise people to give Ubi Soft a little time to sort out the multiplayer
considering how complex an undertaking F1RC was. Someone compared it to GPL,
so I ponted out that GPL was a pretty basic sim in comparison (excellent but
missing a lot of the features found in F1RC), and Papyrus had a lot more
time to work on it.
"Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
It never took my breath away, was/is poorly optimised, and is extremely
sparse compared to the highly detailed tracks of F1RC. No weather. One is a
monumental undertaking, the other is a fairly bare bones approach.
> > It takes a lot of time to model the tracks the way Ubi did using GPS.
> >
>
> It might, but what's the point? The tracks in GPL far more than do the
> trick, and Nurburgring is probably the best/largest track ever modelled
> in a racing sim.
The point is accuracy, not estimation. As far as the Nurburgring being the
best/largest track ever modelled, have you ever seen the tracks in RC2000?
Pitting was a significant factor in F1 in 1967.
> > F1RC has force feedback (GPL was out for a year before it appeared).
> >
>
> If you call FF effects in F1RC force feedback, then McDonald's must be
> gourmet food.
Some people find the FF very good in F1RC. People with Logitech wheels seem
to be having trouble. The point is, it's there in the sim when it was
released.
Adjustable AI not being in GPL was a HUGE complaint, and many said it was a
reason a lot of people returned it to the stores for a refund. The AI in
F1RC only needs to be tweaked in a patch (out soon) to make it excellent.
It's also a learning AI. Also, on of the features of F1RC I forgot to
mention is the ghost mode. The ghost mode is considered by many to be a
great feature to have in sims today.
> > F1RC has telemetry.
> >
>
> True, GPL doesn't have it. I can't believe Papyrus didn't model the
> complex computers they used in 1967!
It still took time to put it in the sim.
> > It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated onthis
Remember N3? Papyrus "never fails"? N4 has shitty AI, the FF is up for
debate, the graphics aren't nearly as good as F1RC's nor does it run
anywhere near as smooth. Strange faults in the physics modelling of F1RC?
Again, I doubt you have the full game, so how can you say that? The physics
are superb. The only areas where N4 has a clear advantage over F1RC is
multiplayer and FF. Of course, Ubi Soft is has the FIA restricting what they
can do.
There is a time limit on the development of EVERY sim, and when a high
quality one is released that is a more complex undertaking than almost any
other, why not be willing to give the developer a little time (as many did
for Papyrus) to make it even better?
David G Fisher
Quoted text (15 lines)
> You make a few valid points below, I'll mostly just argue the ones that > I don't agree on. > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > F1RC has FAR more detailed and complex graphics than GPL. It's also an > > extremely smooth running graphics engine. No comparison. > > > > Of course it does. I do remember that GPL took my breath away when I > first saw it, though. It's been quite a while when it was released, and > you know it. It also ran perfectly smooth as long as there were no AI > around, even on my P200 V1 system at the time. It was the AI > calculations that bogged it down (much like in Nascar 4), but the AI at > least works.Quoted text (13 lines)
> > F1RC has weather (kind of important and fairly complex). > > > > True, something we all miss in GPL. > > > > > F1RC has pitting (kind of important). > > > > Maybe in modern F1, but it isn't as important in the season modelled in > GPL. If you have an incident free race, there is absolutely no reason to > pit in GPL. The programming effort was better spent elsewhere (like > physics)Quoted text (15 lines)
> > F1RC has tire wear. > > > > Again, not really an issue in the season modelled in GPL (unless you > constantly overdrive, which you wouldn't in a long race), so it was > hardly necessary to spend time on it. > > > > > F1RC has adjustable levels of difficulty and AI. > > > > Adjusting AI that doesn't work quite as it should doesn't do you much > good, does it? I'll give you the properly adjustable difficulty as not > being true for GPL; but, then again, this is rec.autos.simulators, > right?Quoted text (14 lines)
> > newsgroup. Two sets of rules. > > > > If you check the above points, you'll notice why. Papyrus tend to spend > their efforts where it really matters, and never fail to provide > comprehensive simulations of the series they model (taking the > capabilities of the machines they run on at the time into account). F1 > RC might have its looks, but strange faults in physics modelling, AI and > ff effects don't give it that quality that Papy products have. It's that > simple. > > And all of the above is even before I go into comparing F1 RC to Nascar > 4, which would be a far more appropriate comparison considering the > respective release dates.[email hidden] (Iain Mackenzie) wrote in
<PpKy6.1526$%[email hidden]>:
>Possible but not likely because I've been using the all-chassis patch
>since it came out! I agree it did make a big difference. However
>......... Iain
Is that patch really accurate though and wouldn't the feel people get from
it depend greatly upon which car they were driving? The cars for each team
were given different settings, if I'm recalling the proper patch. Also, the
settings from team to team varied to such a huge extent that I wonder how
legit the whole thing is overall (perhaps the settings for one of the teams
are very realistic, if not for any or most of the others). I kinda doubt
that the intertial factors could really vary by such a huge degree from car
to car. Between a nascar car and an F1 and a CART and such, sure but
between cars of the same class?
Hi David!
David G Fisher wrote:
We disagree on many issues in this debate, but point taken. Yes, I don't
have the full version, but from all the reports (esp. the latest review
at High Gear), the physics model and FF effects were unaltered in the
final release.
>
>
> It never took my breath away, was/is poorly optimised, and is extremely
> sparse compared to the highly detailed tracks of F1RC. No weather. One is a
> monumental undertaking, the other is a fairly bare bones approach.
>
Again, no sense to argue about preferences. GPL was detailed for it's
time, and did look gorgeous. But as these are personal observations, no
need to argue about it.
>
> The point is accuracy, not estimation. As far as the Nurburgring being the
> best/largest track ever modelled, have you ever seen the tracks in RC2000?
>
I've seen the track in the RC 2000 demo, and they truly are a work of
art. I haven't seen all of them, but I believe you that all of them are
great, so maybe I indeed wasn't quite on mark with my observation,
although for me personally it still stands. Like the above point, it's a
personal thing. On the other hand, UbiSoft might have used GPS for all
the tracks (did you ever find a quote that they actually used the
technology for ALL of them? I didn't), but since they failed the grip
levels (check lap times), what good are they?
>
>
> Pitting was a significant factor in F1 in 1967.
>
As said, pitting was only important when something went wrong, unlike in
modern F1 where all races are done with at least one pitstop. It wasn't
part of the regular strategy in '67, and while it would be very nice to
have it, it's not as essential as, say, good AI.
>
>
> Some people find the FF very good in F1RC. People with Logitech wheels seem
> to be having trouble. The point is, it's there in the sim when it was
> released.
>
Again, a personal thing. I have a Logitech wheel, and I indeed felt all
of the things other felt in the demo and full release (wheel getting
heavy at speed, kerb effects). This, however, doesn't approach the level
of GPL or even GP3.
Of course it hampers GPL as a game, but we're not discussing it in this
manner.
>
>
> It still took time to put it in the sim.
>
In view of what you said at the top, point taken.
N3 didn't fail as a sim, it only failed in the eyes of the community as
it wasn't built on the GPL engine. But it was still by far the best
Nascar sim out there, and quite above all the modern F1 sims at the time.
N4 AI indeed has issues, but even that only happens on certain tracks.
On road tracks, it's superb. I'll take your position here and discuss
how much effort is needed to produce AI that will run in such a limited
space with 43 cars and maintain proper separation. This is a much harder
task than the one in any F1 sim, and glitches are to be expected. On
longer tracks (road courses), it indeed works great. FF isn't up to
debate as it is simply the best implementation of any sim I've seen,
including GPL, except mine, of course ;) .
About strange faults in the physics modelling of F1 RC; it's the
traction that is problematic. I've noticed the issue in the demo and a
few reviewers (High Gear, and, yes Gamespot UK) mentioned it as well.
You know what I am talking about, and it indeed dectracts from the F1
experience as keeping the tail under control is one of the main tasks of
an F1 driver (until Spain, that is ;) ).
I agree. I do hope that the things I don't like about F1 RC do get
patched, as it obviously has huge potential! I have my doubts, though,
considering that it will sell well nevertheless. However, if traction
modelling, FF and AI do get improved, you can be sure I'll buy the full
version and play it to no end!
-Gregor
Quoted text (8 lines)
> I'm pretty sure you don't even have F1RC, but I'll reply anyway. I also > don't think you understood the point of my previous post. It was simply to > advise people to give Ubi Soft a little time to sort out the multiplayer > considering how complex an undertaking F1RC was. Someone compared it to GPL, > so I ponted out that GPL was a pretty basic sim in comparison (excellent but > missing a lot of the features found in F1RC), and Papyrus had a lot more > time to work on it. >Quoted text (9 lines)
> > > Adjustable AI not being in GPL was a HUGE complaint, and many said it was a > reason a lot of people returned it to the stores for a refund. The AI in > F1RC only needs to be tweaked in a patch (out soon) to make it excellent. > It's also a learning AI. Also, on of the features of F1RC I forgot to > mention is the ghost mode. The ghost mode is considered by many to be a > great feature to have in sims today. >Quoted text (10 lines)
> > > Remember N3? Papyrus "never fails"? N4 has shitty AI, the FF is up for > debate, the graphics aren't nearly as good as F1RC's nor does it run > anywhere near as smooth. Strange faults in the physics modelling of F1RC? > Again, I doubt you have the full game, so how can you say that? The physics > are superb. The only areas where N4 has a clear advantage over F1RC is > multiplayer and FF. Of course, Ubi Soft is has the FIA restricting what they > can do. >Quoted text (7 lines)
> > There is a time limit on the development of EVERY sim, and when a high > quality one is released that is a more complex undertaking than almost any > other, why not be willing to give the developer a little time (as many did > for Papyrus) to make it even better? > > David G Fisher
"Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>On the other hand, UbiSoft might have used GPS for all
> the tracks (did you ever find a quote that they actually used the
> technology for ALL of them? I didn't), but since they failed the grip
> levels (check lap times), what good are they?
I don't have a specific quote for you, but everything I've read said they
used GPS for all the tracks. I don't think the grip levels are out of whack
at all, but acceleration might be.
The higher number does make a difference, but most of the complaints I've
read about N4 AI seem to revolve around them being blind to you when you are
on their side (passing low for example).
> About strange faults in the physics modelling of F1 RC; it's the
> traction that is problematic. I've noticed the issue in the demo
The demo had 40% traction control enabled.
> and a
> few reviewers (High Gear, and, yes Gamespot UK) mentioned it as well.
> You know what I am talking about, and it indeed dectracts from the F1
> experience as keeping the tail under control is one of the main tasks of
> an F1 driver (until Spain, that is ;) ).
I can absolutely, positively, 100% assure you :-) that F1RC does not have
too much grip. Just the opposite. The problem most people have in expert
mode is that they can't control the rear end well enough to stop it from
kicking out. Ask Andre W. Setups do help a great deal though. The grip in
F12RC is significantly less than GP3 or F1CS2000. I re-posted down below
(sorry, more re-posts from me) some of Ian Bell's comments on F1RC. Ian has
been making great setups for a number of sims in recent years and definitely
knows what he's talking about. I'm not so sure the reviewer at Gamespot is
as qualified.
> > There is a time limit on the development of EVERY sim, and when a high
> > quality one is released that is a more complex undertaking than almostany
> > other, why not be willing to give the developer a little time (as manydid
Ubi Soft does have a history of punching out patches for their sims and
arcade racers, so hopefully they haven't changed.
---------------------
Ian's comments:
Hi all.
To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game or got
second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to say that
I was wrong!
The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and blue screens,
it is close to perfect.
I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable when
oversteering and it's awesome!
Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and I jumped in
too soon.
In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor and this
ones growing like a baby.
It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's this
area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thought I'd
say that)
You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handles like
the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about - exploring
the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's what GPL
does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game.
For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it
some time, it's bloody excellent. This SIM is very similar
to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding stepping
over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generally aren't
going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the visual
change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in the suspension
movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's not that.
Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit. The
screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until they are
hanging out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, the feedback I
take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL,
this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Also the
suspension arms don't move much.
Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon and in
the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming I get
any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious.
OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost uncontrollable
is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast
turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable
oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you touch
the left curbing.
In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors:
1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band out of
the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear.
2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (a recipe
for oversteer)
Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better
handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do have
Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows
itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren. The
Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent.
Sorry to go on.
Ian Bell
GPLRank -16.8
Gonna learn The Ring and Silverstone soon
-----------------------
David G Fisher
Quoted text (8 lines)
> N4 AI indeed has issues, but even that only happens on certain tracks. > On road tracks, it's superb. I'll take your position here and discuss > how much effort is needed to produce AI that will run in such a limited > space with 43 cars and maintain proper separation. This is a much harder > task than the one in any F1 sim, and glitches are to be expected. On > longer tracks (road courses), it indeed works great. FF isn't up to > debate as it is simply the best implementation of any sim I've seen, > including GPL, except mine, of course ;) .Quoted text (9 lines)
> > for Papyrus) to make it even better? > > > > David G Fisher > > I agree. I do hope that the things I don't like about F1 RC do get > patched, as it obviously has huge potential! I have my doubts, though, > considering that it will sell well nevertheless. However, if traction > modelling, FF and AI do get improved, you can be sure I'll buy the full > version and play it to no end!>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it
> some time, it's bloody excellent.
No it's not. It might be the best on the market, but it's an average
attempt for a realistic F1 simulator. It's a still great way to spend 30
minutes of your time hotlapping until you get bored. Just average. Barely
in the same league as a game like SCGT or RC2k.
> OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almostuncontrollable
> is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast
> turns.
When their own testers can't even create good default setups... it just
shows how professional they are.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:cBsz6.608550$[email hidden]...
> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> > For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it
> > some time, it's bloody excellent.
> No it's not.
Yes it is. It's better than N4 (except in FF and multiplayer).
>It might be the best on the market, but it's an average
> attempt for a realistic F1 simulator. It's a still great way to spend 30
> minutes of your time hotlapping until you get bored. Just average.Barely
The default setups are good. Haven't people been saying that the N4 default
setups are "like driving on ice", or are they perfect?
Ubi Soft must have turned you down for a job. So bitter.
David G Fisher
Quoted text (9 lines)
> in the same league as a game like SCGT or RC2k. > > OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost > uncontrollable > > is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast > > turns. > > When their own testers can't even create good default setups... it just > shows how professional they are.
> I can absolutely, positively, 100% assure you :-) that F1RC does not have
> too much grip. Just the opposite. The problem most people have in expert
> mode is that they can't control the rear end well enough to stop it from
> kicking out. Ask Andre W. Setups do help a great deal though. The grip in
> F12RC is significantly less than GP3 or F1CS2000.
I totally agree! We have to question the judgement on anyone who says
different - pretty strange!
Interestingly enough, I went back to F1CS (a sim I really like) and just
couldn't believe how much grip there was compared with F1RC. If F1CS had the
acceleration of F1RC, god knows what the lap times would be!
Iain
>> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
>
>
>Yes it is. It's better than N4 (except in FF and multiplayer).
>
Do you race the full version of N4 enough to say that?
Ben
>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Yes it is. It's better than N4
Hahaha F1RC is better than Nascar Racing 4 ? You know, I'm not putting down
F1RC, I enjoy it for what it's worth. Fun hotlapper, nice tracks,
acceptable physics. Everything else is not really good (the cockpit, my
eyes!). But to even suggest that is pure B.S.
I've seen it all, I have seen the trees,
I've seen the willow leaves dancing in the breeze
I've seen what I was - I know what I'll be
I've seen it all - there is no more to see!
> The default setups are good. Haven't people been saying that the N4default
> setups are "like driving on ice", or are they perfect?
Looks like you don't have N4 if you say such comments about N4. Everybody
knows there is more then just 1 setup for each track, depending on their
driving skills and abilities. So in the end, DGF doesn't have N4 yet puts
it down. Another troll-like comment by him. "F1RC has great multiplayer!".
LMAO!
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I've been usuing the 'ACP' patch since the day it came out, so I'm not sure
what you mean really! I noticed a few differences, but I can't say that
extra acceleration was one of them - certainly not in the Ferrari.
Iain
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9an30t$2ac$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (11 lines)
> Try the ACP patch and see yourself. > > Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:c5zz6.2621$[email hidden]... > >If F1CS had the > > acceleration of F1RC, god knows what the lap times would be! > > Iain > > > > > >I put about 15 hours into N4, and that was all I could take of the circles
and those cars. Overall though, I'd say it's excellent if you like NASCAR.
For those who do, I'm sure they are very happy. HEAT is excellent too,
although they both have AI problems.
David G Fisher
"Ben Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
