N4: I think I'll start to drink Budweiser next (the US one, not the Czech original)

Hi all, a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. Myth No. 1: Ovals are boring. Plain wrong! The statement is indeed true about the restrictor plat tracks, where you are flat out during the whole race, and even then it's only true if you loose contact with the pack. All the other ovals are exhillarating! Think about what corners you like in GPL, for example. Most likely you'll choose one of the fast sweepers such as Curva Grande or a number of them at Zandvoort, for example. Well, on ovals, all of them are such corners! Brake late but not too late, be smooth on the steering wheel on entry, and then apply just enough throttle to balance the car, and slowly applying more towards the exit; no more than is necessary so you don't hug the wall when the banking drops, though. It's all very, very technical, much more than migth appear to a casual observer. Myth No. 2: Nascar cars are very crude. Well, the rules indeed make them very unsophisticated compared to certain open wheelers, but within that they seem to be great feats of engineering, and contrary to what I thought they actually have practically nothing in common with the road cars they supposedly represent. Even the headlights are just decals on the car! A Nascar car a thoroughbread racing machine, much more than the cars in the European touring series, it's just the specs make them look like roadcars. And boy, do they make for a fun experience on road circuits! Drive one of these beasts around Watkins Glen, and it's like steering a hugely overpowered boat. You turn in, the nose follows a bit later, and then the car leans and starts the turn. Brake for that inner loop (a nasty surprise for any GPL-er!), throw it into the corner and, gasp, you just drift over the curb, ahem, kerb, turn in the opposite direction and wonder how you ever made it, wih the car apparently being only mildly upset by it all! It translates really well on the PC, as the transitions are slow enough to be clearly discernible sitting in front of a monitor. It just migth be the series that is best suited for a PC racing sim, and guys and gals at Papy seem to know it! All in all, the Americana experience is also well captured, with the spotter calling you buddy and all, and I'm enjoying it as a change from the sterile F1 experience. Pass that Bud, will you :)? -Gregor

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Hi all, > > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar.

I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL, but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall and disastrous pile-up follows. Is this realistic? - Michael GPLRank -3.23

Hi, that seems to be completely realistic.The steering ratio with default setups in N4 is much higher on ovals to give you enough precision and as such doesn't even enable you to put in enough opposite lock to save the car once you get it sideways. Try maximizing the steering ratio in GPL and you'll be faced with a similar problem, especially in fast corners. The trick is to be able to recognize the onset of spin way before it actually begins to happen. Even if you could save the car, driving that way will wear out your tires in no time. The trick is too be extremely smooth with your inputs; think of your feet and hands as immersed in a very viscous fluid, and try acting accordingly. A FF wheel also helps a lot. On road courses using setups with default low steering ratios, you'll notice that indeed you can catch the car, much like in GPL, and the car reacts very slowly making the drifts so spectacular they're not even funny anymore (and they eat the tires immediately)! -Gregor MP wrote:

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> > I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when > the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL, > but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of > degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall > and disastrous pile-up follows. > > Is this realistic? > > - Michael > GPLRank -3.23

EXCELLENT analysis of the sport, Gregor! And remember, everything that you have said about NASCAR's stock cars on ovals applies even moreso to the cars of the Indy Racing League and CART -- only at a MUCH greater rate of speed, and with MUCH more at stake. Trade off NASCAR's signature "rubbin' and bumpin'" for the hazards of high-speed wheel-to-wheel racing in open wheelers -- the end result is a sport that can require perhaps even MORE precision than GPL at times. Putting all the politics of CART, the IRL, and NASCAR aside, American-style oval racing IS highly underrated by most people. As I said, EXCELLENT analysis of the sport! ;-) -- JB On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:27:35 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi all, > >a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I >played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing >prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I >haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since >Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. > >Myth No. 1: Ovals are boring. > >Plain wrong! The statement is indeed true about the restrictor plat >tracks, where you are flat out during the whole race, and even then it's >only true if you loose contact with the pack. All the other ovals are >exhillarating! Think about what corners you like in GPL, for example. >Most likely you'll choose one of the fast sweepers such as Curva Grande >or a number of them at Zandvoort, for example. Well, on ovals, all of >them are such corners! Brake late but not too late, be smooth on the >steering wheel on entry, and then apply just enough throttle to balance >the car, and slowly applying more towards the exit; no more than is >necessary so you don't hug the wall when the banking drops, though. It's >all very, very technical, much more than migth appear to a casual >observer. > >Myth No. 2: Nascar cars are very crude. > >Well, the rules indeed make them very unsophisticated compared to >certain open wheelers, but within that they seem to be great feats of >engineering, and contrary to what I thought they actually have >practically nothing in common with the road cars they supposedly >represent. Even the headlights are just decals on the car! A Nascar car >a thoroughbread racing machine, much more than the cars in the European >touring series, it's just the specs make them look like roadcars. > >And boy, do they make for a fun experience on road circuits! Drive one >of these beasts around Watkins Glen, and it's like steering a hugely >overpowered boat. You turn in, the nose follows a bit later, and then >the car leans and starts the turn. Brake for that inner loop (a nasty >surprise for any GPL-er!), throw it into the corner and, gasp, you just >drift over the curb, ahem, kerb, turn in the opposite direction and >wonder how you ever made it, wih the car apparently being only mildly >upset by it all! > >It translates really well on the PC, as the transitions are slow enough >to be clearly discernible sitting in front of a monitor. It just migth >be the series that is best suited for a PC racing sim, and guys and gals >at Papy seem to know it! > >All in all, the Americana experience is also well captured, with the >spotter calling you buddy and all, and I'm enjoying it as a change from >the sterile F1 experience. Pass that Bud, will you :)? > >-Gregor

I used to think the same. I'll I can say is "Practice". You'll be amazed at what you really can save! MP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > Hi all, > > > > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I > > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing > > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I > > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since > > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. > > I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when > the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL, > but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of > degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall > and disastrous pile-up follows. > > Is this realistic? > > - Michael > GPLRank -3.23 >

Welcome aboard the Nascar train!! Can't beat it, -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hi all, > > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. > > Myth No. 1: Ovals are boring. > > Plain wrong! The statement is indeed true about the restrictor plat > tracks, where you are flat out during the whole race, and even then it's > only true if you loose contact with the pack. All the other ovals are > exhillarating! Think about what corners you like in GPL, for example. > Most likely you'll choose one of the fast sweepers such as Curva Grande > or a number of them at Zandvoort, for example. Well, on ovals, all of > them are such corners! Brake late but not too late, be smooth on the > steering wheel on entry, and then apply just enough throttle to balance > the car, and slowly applying more towards the exit; no more than is > necessary so you don't hug the wall when the banking drops, though. It's > all very, very technical, much more than migth appear to a casual > observer. > > Myth No. 2: Nascar cars are very crude. > > Well, the rules indeed make them very unsophisticated compared to > certain open wheelers, but within that they seem to be great feats of > engineering, and contrary to what I thought they actually have > practically nothing in common with the road cars they supposedly > represent. Even the headlights are just decals on the car! A Nascar car > a thoroughbread racing machine, much more than the cars in the European > touring series, it's just the specs make them look like roadcars. > > And boy, do they make for a fun experience on road circuits! Drive one > of these beasts around Watkins Glen, and it's like steering a hugely > overpowered boat. You turn in, the nose follows a bit later, and then > the car leans and starts the turn. Brake for that inner loop (a nasty > surprise for any GPL-er!), throw it into the corner and, gasp, you just > drift over the curb, ahem, kerb, turn in the opposite direction and > wonder how you ever made it, wih the car apparently being only mildly > upset by it all! > > It translates really well on the PC, as the transitions are slow enough > to be clearly discernible sitting in front of a monitor. It just migth > be the series that is best suited for a PC racing sim, and guys and gals > at Papy seem to know it! > > All in all, the Americana experience is also well captured, with the > spotter calling you buddy and all, and I'm enjoying it as a change from > the sterile F1 experience. Pass that Bud, will you :)? > > -Gregor

Well, I think it's harder to drive a sim than a real racecar. same is true with flight sims. If I flew an airplane anywhere near as bad as a flight sim, I would have never gotten my pilot's license!!! In a real car, you can "feel" what's happening by the seat of your pants. I'm still a little skeptical, but everyone that has the act-labs Force RS forcefeedback wheel says it is awesome and helps to counter some of that "can't feel" situation. So in effect, in real life the driver can drive a loose race car alot easier than in the sim. On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:01:48 +0100, MP <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >> Hi all, >> >> a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I >> played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing >> prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I >> haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since >> Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. > >I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when >the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL, >but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of >degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall >and disastrous pile-up follows. > >Is this realistic? > >- Michael >GPLRank -3.23

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MP, I was lucky enough to drive a bunch of GPL before N4 came out, and the way to "save" a car that's starting to come around on you is with a healthy stab at the brake pedal, hard enough to break the front end loose.......When you begin the spin, the rear is sliding due to the loss of traction, and is overrotating to the left.......stab the brakes, get the front end broke free, and the front will rotate back out toward the wall, you'll kill your speed, lose some spots, but live to race to the next pit stop, when you'll get 4 new tires and go out and pass all those bastards back! Pass me a Bud, and Go Jr. at Texas! -- Ed White [email hidden] "Sideways, Slideways, and Every Other Ways" "MP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > Hi all, > > > > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I > > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing > > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I > > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since > > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. > > I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when > the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL, > but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of > degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall > and disastrous pile-up follows. > > Is this realistic? > > - Michael > GPLRank -3.23 >

And guess what? We even have some great online NASCAR leagues in Europe! :-) (Budweiser not included - YET!) --- Joeri J. Cox European Racing League GM - http://drive.to/erl 502 Racing co-founder - http://www.502racing.com "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi all, > > a couple of days ago my copy of Nascar Racing 4 finally arrived. While I > played the demo a lot, and seeing lots of its potential, nothing > prepared me for the experience that only Papyrus can create, it seems! I > haven't felt this good playing a sim, be it racing or flying, since > Grand Prix Legends! It sure crushed a couple of myths about Nascar. > > Myth No. 1: Ovals are boring. > > Plain wrong! The statement is indeed true about the restrictor plat > tracks, where you are flat out during the whole race, and even then it's > only true if you loose contact with the pack. All the other ovals are > exhillarating! Think about what corners you like in GPL, for example. > Most likely you'll choose one of the fast sweepers such as Curva Grande > or a number of them at Zandvoort, for example. Well, on ovals, all of > them are such corners! Brake late but not too late, be smooth on the > steering wheel on entry, and then apply just enough throttle to balance > the car, and slowly applying more towards the exit; no more than is > necessary so you don't hug the wall when the banking drops, though. It's > all very, very technical, much more than migth appear to a casual > observer. > > Myth No. 2: Nascar cars are very crude. > > Well, the rules indeed make them very unsophisticated compared to > certain open wheelers, but within that they seem to be great feats of > engineering, and contrary to what I thought they actually have > practically nothing in common with the road cars they supposedly > represent. Even the headlights are just decals on the car! A Nascar car > a thoroughbread racing machine, much more than the cars in the European > touring series, it's just the specs make them look like roadcars. > > And boy, do they make for a fun experience on road circuits! Drive one > of these beasts around Watkins Glen, and it's like steering a hugely > overpowered boat. You turn in, the nose follows a bit later, and then > the car leans and starts the turn. Brake for that inner loop (a nasty > surprise for any GPL-er!), throw it into the corner and, gasp, you just > drift over the curb, ahem, kerb, turn in the opposite direction and > wonder how you ever made it, wih the car apparently being only mildly > upset by it all! > > It translates really well on the PC, as the transitions are slow enough > to be clearly discernible sitting in front of a monitor. It just migth > be the series that is best suited for a PC racing sim, and guys and gals > at Papy seem to know it! > > All in all, the Americana experience is also well captured, with the > spotter calling you buddy and all, and I'm enjoying it as a change from > the sterile F1 experience. Pass that Bud, will you :)? > > -Gregor

That's a good point - after some more practice I can sense the onset of oversteer sooner - you've got to put the correction in virtually before you can see anything happening! - Michael GPLRank -3.23

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> Hi, > > that seems to be completely realistic.The steering ratio with default > setups in N4 is much higher on ovals to give you enough precision and as > such doesn't even enable you to put in enough opposite lock to save the > car once you get it sideways. Try maximizing the steering ratio in GPL > and you'll be faced with a similar problem, especially in fast corners. > > The trick is to be able to recognize the onset of spin way before it > actually begins to happen. Even if you could save the car, driving that > way will wear out your tires in no time. The trick is too be extremely > smooth with your inputs; think of your feet and hands as immersed in a > very viscous fluid, and try acting accordingly. A FF wheel also helps a > lot. > > On road courses using setups with default low steering ratios, you'll > notice that indeed you can catch the car, much like in GPL, and the car > reacts very slowly making the drifts so spectacular they're not even > funny anymore (and they eat the tires immediately)! > > -Gregor > > MP wrote: > > > > I like Nascar 4, but I find the cars a lot more difficult to save when > > the tail comes out than in GPL. You can drive at crazy angles at GPL, > > but I find that if you let the rear end come out more than a couple of > > degrees in N4 there's nothing you can do, and an impact with the wall > > and disastrous pile-up follows. > > > > Is this realistic? > > > > - Michael > > GPLRank -3.23 >

I'll give that a try. Hopefully the AI will miss me! - Michael

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> MP, I was lucky enough to drive a bunch of GPL before N4 came out, and the > way to "save" a car that's starting to come around on you is with a healthy > stab at the brake pedal, hard enough to break the front end loose.......When > you begin the spin, the rear is sliding due to the loss of traction, and is > overrotating to the left.......stab the brakes, get the front end broke > free, and the front will rotate back out toward the wall, you'll kill your > speed, lose some spots, but live to race to the next pit stop, when you'll > get 4 new tires and go out and pass all those bastards back! Pass me a Bud, > and Go Jr. at Texas!

good luck! If "you" were the AI, they could just drive through you with no consequence :) On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 13:42:40 +0100, MP <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'll give that a try. Hopefully the AI will miss me! > >- Michael > >> MP, I was lucky enough to drive a bunch of GPL before N4 came out, and the >> way to "save" a car that's starting to come around on you is with a healthy >> stab at the brake pedal, hard enough to break the front end loose.......When >> you begin the spin, the rear is sliding due to the loss of traction, and is >> overrotating to the left.......stab the brakes, get the front end broke >> free, and the front will rotate back out toward the wall, you'll kill your >> speed, lose some spots, but live to race to the next pit stop, when you'll >> get 4 new tires and go out and pass all those bastards back! Pass me a Bud, >> and Go Jr. at Texas! > > >

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