GPL - Kyalami - I wanna be faster!

I read the "What is the deal with Monaco and going fast?" thread with great interest, and was hoping some of you could help me out in a similar way, but this time at Kyalami. I just ran a 12-lap race against the AI there, and I managed to clock 1.22.xx on five of those laps, the other seven laps being slower. I've only once managed a 1.21.xx and the Papy time of 1.20.86 seems very distant.... In the hope of finding out where I can save some time, I snipped out the replay of my best lap and merged it with the Papy benchmark using GPL SpyGirl. I'm fine up until the very slow lefthander "Clubhouse Bend" but then things go to pot through Clubhouse, the Esses and the Hairpin. I take all of these bends in second gear. Any magical go-faster advice would be very much appreciated! I'm trying both the Ferrari and the Lotus with Alison Hine's setups, although I've played with the gearing a bit as I think she's quicker than me :0) Cheers Jim PS. Links to trackguides would be really helpful if you've got them - so far I've only been able to find Achim Trensz's guide on Ali's site. Ta.

>"Jim L" <[email hidden]> wrote > Any magical go-faster advice would be very much appreciated! Kyalami's basic is to always try to exit the corners a gear higher then you think you should ;-) Try it, you'll be surprised. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Sun, 1 Apr 2001 05:24:19 +0100, "Jim L" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I read the "What is the deal with Monaco and going fast?" thread with great >interest, and was hoping some of you could help me out in a similar way, but >this time at Kyalami. I just ran a 12-lap race against the AI there, and I >managed to clock 1.22.xx on five of those laps, the other seven laps being >slower. I've only once managed a 1.21.xx and the Papy time of 1.20.86 seems >very distant.... Kyalami is a hard circuit to improve indeed - Papy's time is not that far away from what the fast people drive, if you constantly drive 1:20 - 1:21 laps you have a good chance of winning races. I did some 1:19 laps, I got the biggest gain in that fast lefthander (sunset bend I believe?) drive completely on the right side, even 2 wheels on the grass at the right side, and you can take that corner fast in 4th gear. Practice practice practice.. Use GPLRA to study where you lose the most time. Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I did some 1:19 laps, I got the biggest gain in that fast lefthander > (sunset bend I believe?) drive completely on the right side, even 2 > wheels on the grass at the right side, and you can take that corner > fast in 4th gear. Practice practice practice Sunset's a righthander on my track map.... do you mean the lefthander after Barbeque? I've been driving that in third on 50% throttle, might try taking it up to 4th early and widening the line a bit. Thanks. Jim

I have to tell you, the program Lap Of The Gods will make you all feel humble. It has several laps at Kyalami and the benefits of downforce and huge tires is immense. Where we have to slowdown and almost tippytoe through Clubhouse, they were taking that lefty at much higher speeds. It was cool to see how closely the GPL version matched the LotG track that was filmed 10 years or so later. dave henrie "Jim L" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_5Gx6.11130$[email hidden]... > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > I did some 1:19 laps, I got the biggest gain in that fast lefthander > > (sunset bend I believe?)

Stay left approaching T1 and turn in sharper to take a late apex. (i.e. don't just follow the groove) It let's you accelerate smartly towards T2 instead of tip-toeing through. Regards, Brett C. Cammack brettDOTcammack@worldnetDOTattDOTnet (remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

On Sun, 1 Apr 2001 14:34:47 +0100, "Jim L" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Sunset's a righthander on my track map.... do you mean the lefthander after >Barbeque? I've been driving that in third on 50% throttle, might try taking >it up to 4th early and widening the line a bit. Thanks. Yep, that's the one I mean :) Andre >Jim >

The biggest improvement you will see will come from getting better exit speed. All the straights are long enough to get a good gain from exit speed. Drive the corner on the limit, but slower than you think you need to go...get your turning done early in the corner (turn in later, yet sharper) and get on the gas firm and let the car slide to the exit. Try very hard to apply the gas at or a little after the apex...don't wait, even if it is just a little bit of gas, you will still be accelerating. Once you get your exit speed pushing to the limits, you will find you can gain some decent time with late braking and trail braking...but make sure that when you work on braking later that you don't screw up your exit speed...Kyalami is a perfect track to work on trail braking. Especially in turn 1 and turn 2. Send me an email at [email hidden] and I will send you a replay of an aggressive lap I drove at Kyalami that really highlights the trail braking and getting on the gas hard...I feel is is one of my most intense laps I have driven. Jesse Black "Jim L" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:V1yx6.7903$[email hidden]... > I read the "What is the deal with Monaco and going fast?" thread withgreat > interest, and was hoping some of you could help me out in a similar way,but > this time at Kyalami. I just ran a 12-lap race against the AI there, and I > managed to clock 1.22.xx on five of those laps, the other seven laps being > slower. I've only once managed a 1.21.xx and the Papy time of 1.20.86seems

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> very distant.... > > In the hope of finding out where I can save some time, I snipped out the > replay of my best lap and merged it with the Papy benchmark using GPL > SpyGirl. I'm fine up until the very slow lefthander "Clubhouse Bend" but > then things go to pot through Clubhouse, the Esses and the Hairpin. I take > all of these bends in second gear. > > Any magical go-faster advice would be very much appreciated! I'm trying

both

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> the Ferrari and the Lotus with Alison Hine's setups, although I've played > with the gearing a bit as I think she's quicker than me :0) > > Cheers > Jim > > PS. Links to trackguides would be really helpful if you've got them - so

far > I've only been able to find Achim Trensz's guide on Ali's site. Ta. > >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > It was cool to see how closely the GPL version > matched the LotG track that was filmed 10 years or so later. They changed slightly T2 in the mid 70's I'm almost sure, because of the poor run-off safety in that corner. They modified it to a wider radius. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <vQHx6.660141$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >I have to tell you, the program Lap Of The Gods will make you all feel >humble. It has several laps at Kyalami and the benefits of downforce >and huge tires is immense. Where we have to slowdown and almost >tippytoe through Clubhouse, they were taking that lefty at much higher >speeds. It was cool to see how closely the GPL version matched the >LotG track that was filmed 10 years or so later.

They mentioned that he slowed to about 100 for clubhouse. I'm thinking "Damn, I take that in first, must be about 40". Track was identical, they hardly slowed at all for Barbeque and the sweep. Don McCorkle

In article <vQHx6.660141$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > It was cool to see how closely > the GPL version > matched the LotG track that was filmed 10 years or so later. I thought the track looked much wider on LOTG than it does in GPL. Actually, this was true of all the tracks that are in both. Zandvoort in particular, looked wider, and the corners looked less sharp on LOTG than in GPL. Although they were definitely recognizable. Marc

In article <V1yx6.7903$[email hidden]>, Jim L <[email hidden]> writes

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>I read the "What is the deal with Monaco and going fast?" thread with great >interest, and was hoping some of you could help me out in a similar way, >but >this time at Kyalami. I just ran a 12-lap race against the AI there, and I >managed to clock 1.22.xx on five of those laps, the other seven laps being >slower. I've only once managed a 1.21.xx and the Papy time of 1.20.86 >seems >very distant.... > >In the hope of finding out where I can save some time, I snipped out the >replay of my best lap and merged it with the Papy benchmark using GPL >SpyGirl. I'm fine up until the very slow lefthander "Clubhouse Bend" but >then things go to pot through Clubhouse, the Esses and the Hairpin. I take >all of these bends in second gear. > >Any magical go-faster advice would be very much appreciated! I'm trying >both >the Ferrari and the Lotus with Alison Hine's setups, although I've played >with the gearing a bit as I think she's quicker than me :0) >

Setup - haven't got a clue. I used one of the hotshoe setups and can't recall which one. Ist corner (don't know name) - this corner is a gradually reducing radius so you will need to be gradually bleeding off some speed the further into the corner you go. I recall checking my lines through here and it seems that the wider line - before turn in - appears to give better speed through the corner. Exiting is just a case of getting as much power down without spinning the rear wheels or oversteering the car. You may need slight opposite lock here. Barbeque - not sure about trail braking (never had that privilege), so I would generally work on braking hard in a straight line and then turning in. A strong potential when doing this to spin during turn in or clip the inside curb. You will need to work plenty on guaging the best time to turn and the amount of turn in. To me this is the 2nd hardest corner on this track. I've spun here loads of times. Exit is very much the same as for the first corner, though it is slightly off camber I believe and so it is easy to run too wide and onto the rough stuff if you're not careful. Jusket Sweep - get as wide as you can deal with (2 wheels on the grass even) and then tap the brakes and throw that car towards the apex trying not to clip the inside. Get the power down as early as possible, but remember, too much power will have you sliding off to the right onto the grass. If this happens then ease off the gas and straighten the car out. As long as you get the front and back right-side wheels both on the grass together then you should get away with it. Obviously it's better to avoid this if at all possible though. Sunset - I personally prefer to take a line a car width inside the darker driving line when approaching this corner and then aim at the inside of the corner whilst braking. It's a long corner so, even after the major braking has been done pre-corner, it is not necessary to do all of it and you can bleed off some speed as you are in the corner itself. Exiting, I am normally in 2nd, but sometimes prefer to snatch an early 3rd in order to avoid wheelspin. Also, I'm sure that this is one corner where getting the power down has to be done at the right moment. You have to learn when the car feels more like it's going to keep a good inside line when you apply the power, otherwise I've found myself having to back off for fear of drifting too wide. Hard to explain this but I'll give it a shot. When going through longer corners the car is very rarely just set solid. If you look at the nose you can generally see some oscillation from left to right and back again as the front springs compress and uncompress back and forth. What I discovered was that, at Sunset for instance, if I waited for the left front to be uncompressing whilst the right front was compressing - almost as if the car was being rolled to the inside of the corner - and I then got the power down at this precise moment, then the car was more likely to take a line that steered/pulled towards the inside of the corner instead of pushing away from the corner. As a result I could get more power out of the corner because I wasn't having to back off as much. Has anyone else noticed this? Clubhouse - braking hard from 4th to first and take as wide a line when approaching the corner as possible. Find a braking point that allows you to brake real hard, but not too late so that you overshoot. You really want to be attacking this corner as much as you can confidently do so. If you feel the back end starting to come around then let off the brake just to balance the car again, at which point you should be into the corner anyway and if done quickly enough you won't be carrying much more speed than you would normally, so you can still get the nose into the corner without too much problem. It is not a major deal to avoid the back end stepping out completely. In fact this can help get the car around the corner quicker than normal, though generally it's just a case of getting as good a speed through here whilst hugging the inside of the corner and not drifting wide. Exiting, you really have to wait, wait, wait - much longer that you would imagine - before you can hit the gas. Also slight opposite lock to avoid any oversteer. Esses (if that's what they're called) - Hardest part for me to get right. The car really wants to turn in too much here. As a result, I've spun way too many times. It's a real 'balancing' act. I brake in a straight line and then turn in once all braking's done. I feel that I should be going quicker here, but if I do that then I'm going too wide for the second part so it's best to keep to the inside. Although there appears to be a small section of straight before the right-hand part it's almost not worth trying to accelerate any as it'll only push the car wide. Get the nose into the corner early and then you should be able to accelerate out early - and I mean full throttle - if you're not carrying too much speed at the beginning of the corner and drifting wide. Leeukop - Attack, attack, attack. Find a good braking point (you don't want to overshoot) and then brake hard followed by throwing the car into the corner (almost literally) and bleeding off some more speed. If you're speed's good then the only thing you'll have to worry about is oversteer. If things look like they're getting outta shape then a quick turn of the front wheels towards the corner should settle them down again. Avoid drifting wide at all costs. You'll lose too much time. Power out in 2nd or 3rd - whichever you're most comfortable with - and be aware of oversteer here aswell. Also, the car should be right on the outside of the track by the time you've hit the straight otherwise you're either turning too much or not accelerating early or hard enough. Ok then, what's my best here? Just for info's sake of course and to show that I have at sometime had a decent understanding of how to go fast. :) 1:19.01. -- Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying No person's opinions can be said to be more correct than another's, because each is the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Thanks to everyone for all your help, I'm now at 1:21.57 having put in over 80 laps since starting this thread... I managed 6 consecutive 1.21.xx laps once, which was satisfying in a way but then I can't get lower than 1:21.57 so it's irritating too! Think I need to get Leeukop sorted properly as the GPL SpyGirl combination of my fastest lap with the Papy one shows that I was *ahead* whilst braking for Leeukop but somehow very very slow out of it..... sob! Cheers Jim PS. The World Superbikes have been racing at Kyalami this weekend just gone, saw some of the racing on Eurosport and that track looks very different from how it did in '67! "Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1ZOp$[email hidden]... > In article <V1yx6.7903$[email hidden]>, Jim L > <[email hidden]> writes > >I read the "What is the deal with Monaco and going fast?" thread withgreat > >interest, and was hoping some of you could help me out in a similar way, > >but > >this time at Kyalami. I just ran a 12-lap race against the AI there, andI > >managed to clock 1.22.xx on five of those laps, the other seven lapsbeing

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> >slower. I've only once managed a 1.21.xx and the Papy time of 1.20.86 > >seems > >very distant.... > > > >In the hope of finding out where I can save some time, I snipped out the > >replay of my best lap and merged it with the Papy benchmark using GPL > >SpyGirl. I'm fine up until the very slow lefthander "Clubhouse Bend" but > >then things go to pot through Clubhouse, the Esses and the Hairpin. I

take

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> >all of these bends in second gear. > > > >Any magical go-faster advice would be very much appreciated! I'm trying > >both > >the Ferrari and the Lotus with Alison Hine's setups, although I've played > >with the gearing a bit as I think she's quicker than me :0) > > > > Setup - haven't got a clue. I used one of the hotshoe setups and can't > recall which one. > > Ist corner (don't know name) - this corner is a gradually reducing > radius so you will need to be gradually bleeding off some speed the > further into the corner you go. I recall checking my lines through here > and it seems that the wider line - before turn in - appears to give > better speed through the corner. Exiting is just a case of getting as > much power down without spinning the rear wheels or oversteering the > car. You may need slight opposite lock here. > > Barbeque - not sure about trail braking (never had that privilege), so I > would generally work on braking hard in a straight line and then turning > in. A strong potential when doing this to spin during turn in or clip > the inside curb. You will need to work plenty on guaging the best time > to turn and the amount of turn in. To me this is the 2nd hardest corner > on this track. I've spun here loads of times. Exit is very much the > same as for the first corner, though it is slightly off camber I believe > and so it is easy to run too wide and onto the rough stuff if you're not > careful. > > Jusket Sweep - get as wide as you can deal with (2 wheels on the grass > even) and then tap the brakes and throw that car towards the apex trying > not to clip the inside. Get the power down as early as possible, but > remember, too much power will have you sliding off to the right onto the > grass. If this happens then ease off the gas and straighten the car > out. As long as you get the front and back right-side wheels both on > the grass together then you should get away with it. Obviously it's > better to avoid this if at all possible though. > > Sunset - I personally prefer to take a line a car width inside the > darker driving line when approaching this corner and then aim at the > inside of the corner whilst braking. It's a long corner so, even after > the major braking has been done pre-corner, it is not necessary to do > all of it and you can bleed off some speed as you are in the corner > itself. Exiting, I am normally in 2nd, but sometimes prefer to snatch > an early 3rd in order to avoid wheelspin. Also, I'm sure that this is > one corner where getting the power down has to be done at the right > moment. You have to learn when the car feels more like it's going to > keep a good inside line when you apply the power, otherwise I've found > myself having to back off for fear of drifting too wide. Hard to > explain this but I'll give it a shot. When going through longer corners > the car is very rarely just set solid. If you look at the nose you can > generally see some oscillation from left to right and back again as the > front springs compress and uncompress back and forth. What I discovered > was that, at Sunset for instance, if I waited for the left front to be > uncompressing whilst the right front was compressing - almost as if the > car was being rolled to the inside of the corner - and I then got the > power down at this precise moment, then the car was more likely to take > a line that steered/pulled towards the inside of the corner instead of > pushing away from the corner. As a result I could get more power out of > the corner because I wasn't having to back off as much. Has anyone else > noticed this? > > Clubhouse - braking hard from 4th to first and take as wide a line when > approaching the corner as possible. Find a braking point that allows > you to brake real hard, but not too late so that you overshoot. You > really want to be attacking this corner as much as you can confidently > do so. If you feel the back end starting to come around then let off > the brake just to balance the car again, at which point you should be > into the corner anyway and if done quickly enough you won't be carrying > much more speed than you would normally, so you can still get the nose > into the corner without too much problem. It is not a major deal to > avoid the back end stepping out completely. In fact this can help get > the car around the corner quicker than normal, though generally it's > just a case of getting as good a speed through here whilst hugging the > inside of the corner and not drifting wide. Exiting, you really have to > wait, wait, wait - much longer that you would imagine - before you can > hit the gas. Also slight opposite lock to avoid any oversteer. > > Esses (if that's what they're called) - Hardest part for me to get > right. The car really wants to turn in too much here. As a result, > I've spun way too many times. It's a real 'balancing' act. I brake in > a straight line and then turn in once all braking's done. I feel that I > should be going quicker here, but if I do that then I'm going too wide > for the second part so it's best to keep to the inside. Although there > appears to be a small section of straight before the right-hand part > it's almost not worth trying to accelerate any as it'll only push the > car wide. Get the nose into the corner early and then you should be > able to accelerate out early - and I mean full throttle - if you're not > carrying too much speed at the beginning of the corner and drifting > wide. > > Leeukop - Attack, attack, attack. Find a good braking point (you don't > want to overshoot) and then brake hard followed by throwing the car into > the corner (almost literally) and bleeding off some more speed. If > you're speed's good then the only thing you'll have to worry about is > oversteer. If things look like they're getting outta shape then a quick > turn of the front wheels towards the corner should settle them down > again. Avoid drifting wide at all costs. You'll lose too much time. > Power out in 2nd or 3rd - whichever you're most comfortable with - and > be aware of oversteer here aswell. Also, the car should be right on the > outside of the track by the time you've hit the straight otherwise > you're either turning too much or not accelerating early or hard enough. > > Ok then, what's my best here? Just for info's sake of course and to > show that I have at sometime had a decent understanding of how to go > fast. :) 1:19.01. > -- > Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington) > Remove ALL_STRESS before replying > > No person's opinions can be said to be > more correct than another's, because each is > the sole judge of his or her own experience.

Just found this link to Greger Huttu's Kyalami track guide. He's "fairly fast" there so it's worth a read :0) http://www.sportplanet.com/gpl/kyalami_guide.htm Jim (now given up on Kyalami and moving venue to Spa)