(Far OT) Statue of Liberty

has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and see what can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I was hoping that someone here had been there and may offer some tips.

"Michael Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote > has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and > mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and see what > can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I washoping > that someone here had been there and may offer some tips. > > I have been there whilst on holiday 2 years ago. My top tip is that you should get the first boat in the morning out to Liberty Island. When you are on the boat, stand next to the gang plank and as soon as the boat docks, get off and run to the entrance to the statue. That way you can get to the front of the queue and not have to wait hours to get up to into the crown. Using this strategy I managed a podium finish, coming in 3rd place for the day. I was only beaten out of top spot because the friend I was with got a touch of claustrophobia when climbing the stairs up to the crown. Be warned, the stairs are very steep and very narrow and if you do suffer from claustrophobia, I would guess not very pleasant. This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) Cheers Phil --- http://www.legendscentral.com http://www.geocities.com/f2_festival Statue of Liberty Rank: +3 GPL Handicaps: F1 -3.09 secs, F2 +115.11 secs

How about this: On you way over, drop your girlfriend off at my house. You go to New York, and I'll show her the "Statue of Liberty." ; ) Is she a goer? Ay? Know what I mean? Michael Barlow wrote: > has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and > mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and see what > can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I was hoping > that someone here had been there and may offer some tips.

"Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. ~daxe

> The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. > > ~daxe > > Damn, should have known that. I lived in New Jersey for a year when I was 8, but that was 21 years ago so my memories of the state borders are a bit hazy. Cheers Phil -- http://www.legendscentral.com http://www.geocities.com/f2_festival GPL Handicaps: F1 -3.09 secs, F2 +115.11 secs

On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:43:40 GMT, "Michael Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote: > has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and >mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and see what >can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I was hoping >that someone here had been there and may offer some tips. > Yeah.. look at it from afar. :) Going to the top (and its been a while since I did that) is work.. and its not worth it. :) But the Island is ok... RB

The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? heh... Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. Liberty Island New York, New York 10013 United States of America Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 daxe wrote:

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> "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- > > > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) > > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. > > ~daxe

Don't be embarrassed, it's in New York. Phil Lee wrote:

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> > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. > > > > ~daxe > > > > > > Damn, should have known that. I lived in New Jersey for a year when I was > 8, but that was 21 years ago so my memories of the state borders are a bit > hazy. > > Cheers > > Phil > -- > http://www.legendscentral.com > http://www.geocities.com/f2_festival > > GPL Handicaps: F1 -3.09 secs, F2 +115.11 secs

Last year I shot some video of it while circling it at 400 feet in a Cessna over the Hudson. With 2 friends we flew all day in the NY and Long Island region. The following Manhattan fly-by was spectacular! Great video footage. I did also the 3 hour Manhattan ferry roundtrip that also goes down to the Statue, that was good too. They leave from the Intrepid aircraft carrier ship peer. Erwin "Michael Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w7oz6.5163$[email hidden]... > has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and > mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and see what > can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I washoping > that someone here had been there and may offer some tips. > >

"Razorback" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:43:40 GMT, "Michael Barlow" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and > >mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and seewhat > >can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I washoping

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> >that someone here had been there and may offer some tips. > > > > Yeah.. look at it from afar. :) > > Going to the top (and its been a while since I did that) is work.. and > its not worth it. :) > > But the Island is ok... > > RB

If Daryl Hannah is there making a splash, I'd say the Island is great :)

http://www.nps.gov/stli/ppmaps/map2.jpg Its in New York HARBOR on the New Jersey side. Go look at www.expedia.com and find a map for the statue. It clearly shows the state border running through the harbor and the statue is on the Jersey side of the line. ~daxe "andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? > > heh... > > Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. > > Liberty Island > New York, New York 10013 > United States of America > Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 > > daxe wrote: > > > "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- > > > > > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup

:) > > > > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. > > > > ~daxe >

dude: Liberty Island New York, New York 10013 United States of America Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 daxe wrote:

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> http://www.nps.gov/stli/ppmaps/map2.jpg > > Its in New York HARBOR on the New Jersey side. > > Go look at www.expedia.com and find a map for the statue. It clearly shows > the state border running through the harbor and the statue is on the Jersey > side of the line. > > ~daxe > > "andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? > > > > heh... > > > > Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. > > > > Liberty Island > > New York, New York 10013 > > United States of America > > Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 > > > > daxe wrote: > > > > > "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- > > > > > > > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup > :) > > > > > > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. > > > > > > ~daxe > >

"andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > dude: > > Liberty Island > New York, New York 10013 > United States of America > Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 Do you suppose the mail box is located at the foot of the statue, DUDE? ~daxe

Yes, it is. Why, what were you thinking, HOSS? : ) It's part of New York (Liberty Island, *NYC*) , but in New Jersey water: (from http://www.libertystatepark.com/statueof.htm) "Liberty, Statue of, colossal (152-ft/46-m) statue on Liberty Island, N.Y.C., in Upper New York Bay, in New Jersey waters but under New York jurisdiction. Designed by F.A. BARTHOLDI, it was presented to the U.S. by the Franco-American Union to commemorate the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Dedicated in 1886, it became a national monument in 1924 and was extensively restored in 1986." Liberty Park, also part of the monument, is in New Jersey. daxe wrote:

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> "andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > dude: > > > > Liberty Island > > New York, New York 10013 > > United States of America > > Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 > > Do you suppose the mail box is located at the foot of the statue, DUDE? > > ~daxe

"andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yes, it is. Why, what were you thinking, HOSS? What state do you go to to see the New York Giants play?

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> : ) > > It's part of New York (Liberty Island, *NYC*) , but in New Jersey water: > > (from http://www.libertystatepark.com/statueof.htm) > > "Liberty, Statue of, colossal (152-ft/46-m) statue on Liberty Island,

N.Y.C., > in Upper New York Bay, in New Jersey waters but under New Yorkjurisdiction. > Designed by F.A. BARTHOLDI, it was presented to the U.S. by theFranco-American > Union to commemorate the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Dedicated in 1886, it becamea > national monument in 1924 and was extensively restored in 1986." > Liberty Park, also part of the monument, is in New Jersey. Check this URL: http://www.nps.gov/stli/ where it states for location: Statue Of Liberty National Monument Located in New York, NJ,NY I will concede that is *partly* in NY if you concede that it is *partly* in NJ. The map shows it clearly on the NJ side of the border. There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. ~daxe

>There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was >originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes >back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by >the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. Going OT an OT, but can any American fill me in on New Jersey? I see so many TV and film references to it - what's wrong with the place? -- Cheers! Graeme Nash "You'll see I'm right, as usual" - David G Fisher, 2001.

In article <[email hidden]>, andrew <[email hidden]> writes:

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>How about this: > >On you way over, drop your girlfriend off at my house. You go to New York, >and I'll show her the "Statue of Liberty." > >; ) > >Is she a goer? Ay? Know what I mean?

Say no more...<wink, wink, nudge, nudge> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

LOL! Well, you got me there.... daxe wrote:

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> "andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Yes, it is. Why, what were you thinking, HOSS? > > What state do you go to to see the New York Giants play? > > > : ) > > > > It's part of New York (Liberty Island, *NYC*) , but in New Jersey water: > > > > (from http://www.libertystatepark.com/statueof.htm) > > > > "Liberty, Statue of, colossal (152-ft/46-m) statue on Liberty Island, > N.Y.C., > > in Upper New York Bay, in New Jersey waters but under New York > jurisdiction. > > Designed by F.A. BARTHOLDI, it was presented to the U.S. by the > Franco-American > > Union to commemorate the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Dedicated in 1886, it became > a > > national monument in 1924 and was extensively restored in 1986." > > Liberty Park, also part of the monument, is in New Jersey. > > Check this URL: > > http://www.nps.gov/stli/ > > where it states for location: > > Statue Of Liberty > National Monument > Located in New York, NJ,NY > > I will concede that is *partly* in NY if you concede that it is *partly* in > NJ. The map shows it clearly on the NJ side of the border. > > There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was > originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes > back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by > the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. > > ~daxe

It gets a bad rap because of some really bad spots, like Camden (lots of murders, though not too bad recently) as well as trash dumps along major thoroughfares which can smell. However, it is "The Garden State"... there are plenty of really nice areas. Plus, lots of people who work in New York live in northern New Jersey because it is more affordable to buy a home (or rent) and it is a reasonable commute... I live in NJ... Southern, near Philadelphia. Quite frankly, though, everywhere I've lived and visited has had its share of beauty and desolation, and I suppose that balance has to be. Graeme Nash wrote:

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> >There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was > >originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes > >back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by > >the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. > > Going OT an OT, but can any American fill me in on New Jersey? I see so > many TV and film references to it - what's wrong with the place? > > -- > Cheers! > Graeme Nash > > "You'll see I'm right, as usual" > > - David G Fisher, 2001.

Well Graeme our state of New Jersey aka NJ aka "The Garbage State"..lol have been the butt of many many jokes for years. North Jersey & Southern NJ are like two different countries. Not that either or better or worse.. Just different.. Sadly with NYC right around the NE side of NJ we get a lot of their toxic waste, trash and more dumped on us via the ocean... This makes many of the shore beaches that use to be fantastic nothing more then a trash dump as the waste dumped out at sea washes up on our shores!! Anyway that is the abridged version & "O" yea we have allegedly a lot of "mobsters" in NJ. They Leave NYC & Philly to hide in NJ...<g> Shhhhh Cheers Thom_j. "O" Yea Again P.S. I live in Southern New Jersey.. <vBg> "Graeme Nash" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... | | >There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty islandwas | >originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensivepurposes | >back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declaredby

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| >the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. | | Going OT an OT, but can any American fill me in on New Jersey? I see so | many TV and film references to it - what's wrong with the place? | | -- | Cheers! | Graeme Nash | | "You'll see I'm right, as usual" | | - David G Fisher, 2001.

daxe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DDqz6.8718$[email hidden]...

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> > "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- > > > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) > > > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. >

HA!!

Graeme Nash <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > >There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty islandwas > >originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensivepurposes > >back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declaredby > >the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. > > Going OT an OT, but can any American fill me in on New Jersey? I see so > many TV and film references to it - what's wrong with the place? > > --Graeme- Richard Nixon retired to NJ.

andrew <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> How about this: > > On you way over, drop your girlfriend off at my house. You go to New York, > and I'll show her the "Statue of Liberty." > > ; ) > > Is she a goer? Ay? Know what I mean? >

ROFL

Erwin Zwart <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3ace56ea$0$10861@reader5... > Last year I shot some video of it while circling it at 400 feet in aCessna > over the Hudson. With 2 friends we flew all day in the NY and Long Island > region. > The following Manhattan fly-by was spectacular! Great video footage. THAT WAS YOU??

Actually.. New Jersey won in court in this matter. It is in NJ waters and NJ is now managing through the PA. RB On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:18:19 GMT, andrew <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? > >heh... > >Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. > >Liberty Island >New York, New York 10013 >United States of America >Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 > >daxe wrote: > >> "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- >> >> > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) >> >> The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. >> >> ~daxe

It has kept the same address etc. due to an agreement by NJ state and NYC. It is a port authority thing. Don't worry about the address buddy... I know I am right. :) NJ is the owner of the statue now. RB On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:15:24 GMT, andrew <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>dude: > >Liberty Island >New York, New York 10013 >United States of America >Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 > >daxe wrote: > >> http://www.nps.gov/stli/ppmaps/map2.jpg >> >> Its in New York HARBOR on the New Jersey side. >> >> Go look at www.expedia.com and find a map for the statue. It clearly shows >> the state border running through the harbor and the statue is on the Jersey >> side of the line. >> >> ~daxe >> >> "andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? >> > >> > heh... >> > >> > Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. >> > >> > Liberty Island >> > New York, New York 10013 >> > United States of America >> > Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 >> > >> > daxe wrote: >> > >> > > "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> > > news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- >> > > >> > > > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup >> :) >> > > >> > > The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. >> > > >> > > ~daxe >> >

Or the New York Jets. :) RB On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 19:23:02 GMT, "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> Yes, it is. Why, what were you thinking, HOSS? > >What state do you go to to see the New York Giants play? > >> : ) >> >> It's part of New York (Liberty Island, *NYC*) , but in New Jersey water: >> >> (from http://www.libertystatepark.com/statueof.htm) >> >> "Liberty, Statue of, colossal (152-ft/46-m) statue on Liberty Island, >N.Y.C., >> in Upper New York Bay, in New Jersey waters but under New York >jurisdiction. >> Designed by F.A. BARTHOLDI, it was presented to the U.S. by the >Franco-American >> Union to commemorate the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Dedicated in 1886, it became >a >> national monument in 1924 and was extensively restored in 1986." >> Liberty Park, also part of the monument, is in New Jersey. > >Check this URL: > >http://www.nps.gov/stli/ > >where it states for location: > >Statue Of Liberty >National Monument >Located in New York, NJ,NY > >I will concede that is *partly* in NY if you concede that it is *partly* in >NJ. The map shows it clearly on the NJ side of the border. > >There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was >originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes >back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by >the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. > >~daxe > > > > > >

Wrong with the place? Nothing. Some of the biggest entertainers in history are from New Jersey. In fact, the NFC Champions are from NJ, so are the current Stanley Cup Champions... the best show on TV (well, cable, the Sopranos) is in NJ. Frank Sinatra.. Bruce Springstein... Whitney Houston.. Queen Latifa.. Bruce Willis... and Metallica kicked out Dave Mustaine in NJ too. :) RB On Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:00:14 +0100, Graeme Nash <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >>There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was >>originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes >>back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by >>the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. > >Going OT an OT, but can any American fill me in on New Jersey? I see so >many TV and film references to it - what's wrong with the place?

Yeah.. you have it right. In fact many people who work in Manhattan live in northern NJ. It's just MUCH cheaper and NJ has really good mass transit. Bergen County alone has 1 million people... probably a third of which work in NY. :) NJ is very woodsy.. but what gives it a bad rap is the fact that all the smelly, stinky, dirty, ugly factories are right on the main highways. So anyone who just drives through New Jersey just sees the worst of it. :) RB On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 00:31:50 GMT, andrew <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>It gets a bad rap because of some really bad spots, like Camden (lots of >murders, though not too bad recently) as well as trash dumps along major >thoroughfares which can smell. > >However, it is "The Garden State"... there are plenty of really nice areas. > >Plus, lots of people who work in New York live in northern New Jersey because it >is more affordable to buy a home (or rent) and it is a reasonable commute... > >I live in NJ... Southern, near Philadelphia. > >Quite frankly, though, everywhere I've lived and visited has had its share of >beauty and desolation, and I suppose that balance has to be. > >Graeme Nash wrote: > >> >There is a bunch of weird backstory about all this where Liberty island was >> >originally part of NJ but was given over to NY for some defensive purposes >> >back a long time ago. Now the landfill part of Ellis island is declared by >> >the supreme court to be part of NJ or something. The confusion mounts. >> >> Going OT an OT, but can any American fill me in on New Jersey? I see so >> many TV and film references to it - what's wrong with the place? >> >> -- >> Cheers! >> Graeme Nash >> >> "You'll see I'm right, as usual" >> >> - David G Fisher, 2001.

Here, let's refresh: It's part of New York (Liberty Island, *NYC*) , but in New Jersey water: (from http://www.libertystatepark.com/statueof.htm) "Liberty, Statue of, colossal (152-ft/46-m) statue on Liberty Island, N.Y.C., in Upper New York Bay, in New Jersey waters but under New York jurisdiction. Designed by F.A. BARTHOLDI, it was presented to the U.S. by the Franco-American Union to commemorate the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Dedicated in 1886, it became a national monument in 1924 and was extensively restored in 1986." Liberty Park, also part of the monument, is in New Jersey. That's what I found in writing, on the Statue of Liberty website. Please, show me where you got your info - I live in NJ and want to know where my taxes are going... Razorback wrote:

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> Actually.. New Jersey won in court in this matter. It is in NJ waters > and NJ is now managing through the PA. > > RB > > On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:18:19 GMT, andrew <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? > > > >heh... > > > >Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. > > > >Liberty Island > >New York, New York 10013 > >United States of America > >Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 > > > >daxe wrote: > > > >> "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- > >> > >> > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) > >> > >> The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. > >> > >> ~daxe

Let me call my lawyer tomorrow and we will pull up all of the research on this matter so I can prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt so that you believe me and so that your mind may be set at ease.. in fact, let me also start an out-of-pocket investigation into the whole matter verifiying the validity of every argument. :) RB On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:32:44 GMT, andrew <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Here, let's refresh: > >It's part of New York (Liberty Island, *NYC*) , but in New Jersey water: > >(from http://www.libertystatepark.com/statueof.htm) > >"Liberty, Statue of, colossal (152-ft/46-m) statue on Liberty Island, N.Y.C., >in Upper New York Bay, in New Jersey waters but under New York jurisdiction. >Designed by F.A. BARTHOLDI, it was presented to the U.S. by the Franco-American >Union to commemorate the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Dedicated in 1886, it became a >national monument in 1924 and was extensively restored in 1986." >Liberty Park, also part of the monument, is in New Jersey. > >That's what I found in writing, on the Statue of Liberty website. Please, show >me where you got your info - I live in NJ and want to know where my taxes are >going... > >Razorback wrote: > >> Actually.. New Jersey won in court in this matter. It is in NJ waters >> and NJ is now managing through the PA. >> >> RB >> >> On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:18:19 GMT, andrew <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey? >> > >> >heh... >> > >> >Please, don't bogart that joint, my friend. >> > >> >Liberty Island >> >New York, New York 10013 >> >United States of America >> >Telephone: +1 (212) 363-3200 >> > >> >daxe wrote: >> > >> >> "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >> news:sIoz6.1966$IP5.347021@news2- >> >> >> >> > This is great, a Brit giving NY travel advice on a race sim newsgroup :) >> >> >> >> The Statue of Liberty is in New Jersey. >> >> >> >> ~daxe

Living on long island, and pretty much visit nyc least once a week because of work, my biggest hint is learning how to drive there correctly! That is drive your worst without crashing. Saying that, statue of liberty is nice to see and getting on the first morning run is definitely worth it as if you wait, you can end up waiting 30minutes in line. The only down point is i think they finally closed down visitors access to the top of the miss. liberties hand with the flame. -- Sincerely, Mark F. -- SimGoRacing -- http://www.simgoracing.com "Michael Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w7oz6.5163$[email hidden]... > has anyone ever been there? My Girlfriend has never been there and > mentions it every other day. So, I figured I'd take the hint and see what > can be done this year. There are many web pages to go to but I was hoping > that someone here had been there and may offer some tips. > >