newbie ? about racing games (or is it hopeless)

I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway. I'm interested in trying a racing game. Previously I've only played wargames, strategy games, and RPG's. For some reason I'd like to try a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also interested in a racing game. I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but never managed to beat the clock on the very first test. Finally I gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up. I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results with it either (weaving all over the road). My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. Regards

You could certainly have some fun with racing games using a joystick, actually some folks get to be pretty fast using just a joystick. A wheel however, will give you a better sense of driving a car, and you'd probably enjoy it more. -- Don Burnette D Burnette in N4 Some people do nothing wrong. The problem is, they do nothing. And THAT is wrong. "Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway. I'm > interested in trying a racing game. Previously I've only played > wargames, strategy games, and RPG's. For some reason I'd like to try > a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also > interested in a racing game. I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but > never managed to beat the clock on the very first test. Finally I > gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up. > I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results > with it either (weaving all over the road). > > My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to > laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz > Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to > play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards >

"Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : : My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to : laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz : Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to : play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. : This is all IMO, of course. A joystick is quite playable for racing sims (think jet fighter in 2 dimensions). I played/mastered TOCA Racing with a joystick then got a wheel (actually, my wife got it for me for Xmas...). I wasn't that much faster with the wheel and that may have been due to practise with the game rather than the controller. Some of the fastest GPL players use a joystick (and pedals, though). If you can control a GPL car then anything is possible :-) I find joysticks to be a bit too difficult to use unless I hold the "stick" near the base - but that's me. A wheel is, of course, far more immersive but not an absolute necessity. Dale.

"Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to > laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz > Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to > play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. Nope. I finished NFS3:HP, most of NFS4 (didn't get gold on all tournaments), and NFS:PU with joystick alone. I also did well with most of the rally games. This is with the good old trusty Thrustmaster Top Gun joystick. :-) --KC

A joystick should be fine/ok.....I did very well with NFS|PU & GP3 using a gamepad, and also a keyboard. On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 02:06:40 GMT, Gene Baker <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway. I'm >interested in trying a racing game. Previously I've only played >wargames, strategy games, and RPG's. For some reason I'd like to try >a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also >interested in a racing game. I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but >never managed to beat the clock on the very first test. Finally I >gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up. >I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results >with it either (weaving all over the road). > >My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to >laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz >Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to >play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. > >Regards

On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:18:17 -0700, "Sideshow Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >: >: My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to >: laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz >: Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to >: play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. >: > > >This is all IMO, of course. > >A joystick is quite playable for racing sims (think jet fighter in 2 >dimensions). I played/mastered TOCA Racing with a joystick then got a wheel >(actually, my wife got it for me for Xmas...). I wasn't that much faster >with the wheel and that may have been due to practise with the game rather >than the controller. > >Some of the fastest GPL players use a joystick (and pedals, though). If you >can control a GPL car then anything is possible :-)

Actually one of THE fastest drivers in GPL used a joystick only, without pedals (Wolfgang Woeger). A couple of months back he switched to a wheel though, to find a new challenge. Andre

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>I find joysticks to be a bit too difficult to use unless I hold the "stick" >near the base - but that's me. A wheel is, of course, far more immersive >but not an absolute necessity. > >Dale. > >

Some people are great with a joystick in a racing sim, others, like me and you, just can't drive with a stick :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Gene Baker <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway. I'm > interested in trying a racing game. Previously I've only played > wargames, strategy games, and RPG's. For some reason I'd like to try > a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also > interested in a racing game. I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but > never managed to beat the clock on the very first test. Finally I > gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up. > I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results > with it either (weaving all over the road). > > My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to > laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz > Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to > play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards >

"Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to > laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz > Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to > play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. It is certainly possible. I started out using a joystick before I got a wheel and it took me a while to match my joystick times with the wheel after I got it. The biggest problem with a joystick, as I see it, is how to control the throttle. You can't realistically use a button because its only on or off and and decent sim requires more delicate control of the gas and brake. If you use the forward and rearward axis of the joystick for throttle you might find steering to be more difficult to do since you are trying to do two things with one hand, and you are further forced to use either throttle OR brake and can't use both together, which can be useful in some sims. IF you can get a cheapo joystick with a separate throttle control you will be getting closer to what you need, but I would still say a wheel/pedal combo is the best idea. Poke around on Ebay and you should be able to find a great deal. If you want to know the quality of a certain wheel, ask here and you will get lots of opinoins!! hope this helped, ~daxe

Gene..... First of all, "welcome" to the sim racing community. As the name implies, we don't "play" racing games per se, we "race" simulations of real-world racing on our computers. The programs we use come in varied forms and formats.....and "yes" some of them are considered "games." But for the most part, even those have been "hacked" so that the "game" parts are greatly minimized or removed all together. The "equipment" we use....ranges from simple joystick/keyboard combos......many started out that way.....to very sophisticated racing frames and control systems for desktop racing, all the way to full blown recreations of our favorite racing car cockpits (with working dash boards). If you do some hunting/searching around on the Internet (go to a search engine and just type in "sim racing".....you'll have hours and hours of entertaining websites ....and educational too.....to visit and enjoy). If after doing this, you decide you might like to see what this sim racing is all about, I would suggest you start out modestly in the following way (remember, I know some people who have $20K just in their race car cockpits alone....another $10K in computer and sound equipment): Go to a software store, or website and buy Viper Racing by MGI. It came out a couple years back, is very easy to install and will run on most computers systems with minimum problems....and computer specs for this racing sim are pretty easy to meet. At the same time, make a small investment in a racing controller (wheel and peddle system). If you have USB ports on your computer...which you should have....then I would suggest you consider buying a Thrustmaster NASCAR Pro Digital-2 racing wheel and peddles. It works very well, is easy to install (relative to other controllers), is very adaptable to many types of sim racing programs (the wheel has both paddle shifters for F1 style, open wheel racing sims, and a separate stick shift for sports car racing and NASCAR Winston Cup racing)....and very good peddles (brake and gas). They calibrate easily (especially in Viper Racing).....and the TM NASCAR Pro Digital-2 wheel sells for only about $60 (retail suggested list price....you may find it on the Internet for less). Viper Racing can usually be found for around $10....so for well under $100, you'd have a very good (and fun) way to run some computer racing....with realistic car physics and a decent control system.....for several months of fun and entertainment (be careful, you might get hooked). I think most of the veteran sim racers here would back me up on this conclusion? After a few months....you'll know whether this is something you'd like to consider doing as a "hobby-like" basis......and by then you'll have some experience and some "knowledge" (keep coming to this newsgroup with your questions....and just read and take in some of the information during this two-month period)....and can move up from there if you want to. But, Viper Racing and a TM NASCAR Pro Digital wheel, would be an excellent foundation.....and you'll learn sim racing in a fun and entertaining way, as well as providing yourself with good basic race training which will serve you well in the future....if you decide to keep up with this and make it a hobby of yours. If you do, there's a vast world of virtual, simulated racing to be yours....if you want it. Internet sim racing against other "human" drivers.....will eventually become a professional online sport (it is approaching that status even today). You might not want to go that far with this....but even several levels down from pro sim racing.....is a level of sophistication that still takes a few years to work up to. Just like in real-world racing, you can't just buy a race car and expect to be a professional race car driver in just a few months.....it just doesn't work that way. You have to pay your dues, get experience (spend inordinate amounts of your own money racing)......and then get "lucky" to eventually become a professional race car driver. Its not all that different in online, Internet based, sim racing either. This is just an example (and there are many "stories" like mine...even among posts on this newsgroup today around yours.....of people who have come to similar levels): I raced in real-world racing for about 15 years (won two SCCA championships, and drove for the BMW factory team in the ESCORT Endurance Racing Series for three years. I have race competitively at every US road sports car track, most of the oval tracks and have done every 24-hour endurance style race in the world except LeMans). I was given a sim racing "game" as a joke from one of my crew members, in 1995. I didn't even install it on my computer for several months....but when I did, I was hooked (this was a "sim" called NASCAR Racing-2 by Papyrus). Today, I make a full-time living in sim racing (I don't work at anything else)......I own a sim racing based company that builds, designs and rents racing simulators to corporations for trade shows and conventions, and for employee "motivation fun days", we both build and sell simulators and computer equipment for private individuals who want the most and the best in sim racing equipment....that money can buy (our systems usually sell for well into 5-figure amounts...averaging about $20,000 for complete cockpits and sophisticated, high-tech computers and displays)....we've build a few systems for some of today's top professional race car drivers....to "train" on...during the off-season. That is the core of my business, but we are also involved in many "off-shoots" and side elements of sim racing, including software design, sound effects design and sim program development. I am a full member of IGDA (International Game Developers Association) and attend most of the world's major trade shows for the gaming industry (E3 in Los Angeles being the biggest of these). We are still a very small, but rapidly growing company. And....I still sim race (online) almost every day! This all started with one simple racing "game" (much less sophisticated than the Viper Racing I have suggested to you above)....and an old analogue racing wheel (a TM NASCAR Pro analogue controller...don't think they even make it anymore). There are people I race with regularly who are in their early teens.....and guys who I have raced with for many years who are in their 50's and 60's (I'm one of those guys....lol). I would guess the average age of a serious sim driver....to be early 30's....but that is only an educated guess. This is not an "activity" only for kids.....not by a long shot is this only for kids! So, there you have it....the "possibilities" open to you are endless.....almost. Have fun....that's the key.....and if you want to give this a try....go take my suggestions above and keep coming back here for information. Okay? Regards, Tom Pabst Pabst-Racing

On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 02:06:40 GMT, Gene Baker <[email hidden]> wrote: > Is a wheel required to >play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. I used to do NASCAR with an el-cheapo JS and ditto the comment below, hold the stick close to the base and you'll get more control... FYI.. new race sim coming fairly soon that cries for a JS.. http://www.xtremeairracing.com "Shortfork" All Aviation FlightLine OnLine http://aafo.com

I came from the same place. Used to play C&C, Red Alert, Age of Empires and other RTS games. Eventually they just all seemed the same thing over and over again. New game comes out, learn the weaknesses, and it's click race. It was more about finding out the weakness of the game than any strategy. I picked up Nascar Racing 2 and never looked back. Racing other people is *always* different and far more intense than any RTS game can ever be. I'd get Nascar Racing 4 if your computer is good enough and for sure get a wheel. Get whatever cheap thing you can afford for now. I believe you can get them for like $30-50 now. Go to www.nascar.com and look at the current schedule of races. See what track is coming up and run some laps at that track. Then watch the race on TV over the weekend. Then find an online race at the same track. That should do it. <g> Tom "Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway. I'm > interested in trying a racing game. Previously I've only played > wargames, strategy games, and RPG's. For some reason I'd like to try > a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also > interested in a racing game. I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but > never managed to beat the clock on the very first test. Finally I > gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up. > I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results > with it either (weaving all over the road). > > My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to > laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz > Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to > play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards >

Gene, As you have probably already seen from other posts here, you can use a stick, but I thoroughly recommend a wheel and pedals. They enhance the sim experience to the nth degree. I use a homebuilt wheel and pedals that I originally made for GP2, and I've used them on every driving sim I've tried since. IMHO, you can't beat a wheel. Cheers, Glenn Gene Baker wrote:

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> > I realize many could think I'm trolling but here goes anyway. I'm > interested in trying a racing game. Previously I've only played > wargames, strategy games, and RPG's. For some reason I'd like to try > a more action-oriented game hence I bought Half Life, but I'm also > interested in a racing game. I downloaded a demo of NASCAR Heat, but > never managed to beat the clock on the very first test. Finally I > gave up an saw Need For Speed High Stakes for $10, so I picked it up. > I knew it was more arcade than sim, but don't have very good results > with it either (weaving all over the road). > > My question is can these things be played with a joystick. Try not to > laugh but I'm using an $8 joystick my 7-year-old uses for Buzz > Lightyear (I said you'd think I'm a troll). Is a wheel required to > play these types of games? Any help would be appreciated. > > Regards

Thanks for your response. One thing I don't understand, does the wheel / pedal setup have a shifter? If not how is this accomplished? On another note if I wanted to use only the wheel and not the pedals is this possible. I ask this to see if a 7 year old could play an acade type, but he certainly couldn't reach the pedals. On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:43:51 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Gene..... > >First of all, "welcome" to the sim racing community. > >As the name implies, we don't "play" racing games per se, we "race" >simulations of real-world racing on our computers. The programs we use come >in varied forms and formats.....and "yes" some of them are considered >"games." But for the most part, even those have been "hacked" so that the >"game" parts are greatly minimized or removed all together. The "equipment" >we use....ranges from simple joystick/keyboard combos......many started out >that way.....to very sophisticated racing frames and control systems for >desktop racing, all the way to full blown recreations of our favorite racing >car cockpits (with working dash boards). If you do some hunting/searching >around on the Internet (go to a search engine and just type in "sim >racing".....you'll have hours and hours of entertaining websites ....and >educational too.....to visit and enjoy). > >If after doing this, you decide you might like to see what this sim racing >is all about, I would suggest you start out modestly in the following way >(remember, I know some people who have $20K just in their race car cockpits >alone....another $10K in computer and sound equipment): > >Go to a software store, or website and buy Viper Racing by MGI. It came out >a couple years back, is very easy to install and will run on most computers >systems with minimum problems....and computer specs for this racing sim are >pretty easy to meet. At the same time, make a small investment in a racing >controller (wheel and peddle system). If you have USB ports on your >computer...which you should have....then I would suggest you consider buying >a Thrustmaster NASCAR Pro Digital-2 racing wheel and peddles. It works very >well, is easy to install (relative to other controllers), is very adaptable >to many types of sim racing programs (the wheel has both paddle shifters for >F1 style, open wheel racing sims, and a separate stick shift for sports car >racing and NASCAR Winston Cup racing)....and very good peddles (brake and >gas). They calibrate easily (especially in Viper Racing).....and the TM >NASCAR Pro Digital-2 wheel sells for only about $60 (retail suggested list >price....you may find it on the Internet for less). > >Viper Racing can usually be found for around $10....so for well under $100, >you'd have a very good (and fun) way to run some computer racing....with >realistic car physics and a decent control system.....for several months of >fun and entertainment (be careful, you might get hooked). I think most of >the veteran sim racers here would back me up on this conclusion? > >After a few months....you'll know whether this is something you'd like to >consider doing as a "hobby-like" basis......and by then you'll have some >experience and some "knowledge" (keep coming to this newsgroup with your >questions....and just read and take in some of the information during this >two-month period)....and can move up from there if you want to. But, Viper >Racing and a TM NASCAR Pro Digital wheel, would be an excellent >foundation.....and you'll learn sim racing in a fun and entertaining way, as >well as providing yourself with good basic race training which will serve >you well in the future....if you decide to keep up with this and make it a >hobby of yours. If you do, there's a vast world of virtual, simulated >racing to be yours....if you want it. > >Internet sim racing against other "human" drivers.....will eventually become >a professional online sport (it is approaching that status even today). You >might not want to go that far with this....but even several levels down from >pro sim racing.....is a level of sophistication that still takes a few years >to work up to. Just like in real-world racing, you can't just buy a race >car and expect to be a professional race car driver in just a few >months.....it just doesn't work that way. You have to pay your dues, get >experience (spend inordinate amounts of your own money racing)......and then >get "lucky" to eventually become a professional race car driver. Its not >all that different in online, Internet based, sim racing either. > >This is just an example (and there are many "stories" like mine...even among >posts on this newsgroup today around yours.....of people who have come to >similar levels): > >I raced in real-world racing for about 15 years (won two SCCA championships, >and drove for the BMW factory team in the ESCORT Endurance Racing Series for >three years. I have race competitively at every US road sports car track, >most of the oval tracks and have done every 24-hour endurance style race in >the world except LeMans). I was given a sim racing "game" as a joke from >one of my crew members, in 1995. I didn't even install it on my computer >for several months....but when I did, I was hooked (this was a "sim" called >NASCAR Racing-2 by Papyrus). Today, I make a full-time living in sim racing >(I don't work at anything else)......I own a sim racing based company that >builds, designs and rents racing simulators to corporations for trade shows >and conventions, and for employee "motivation fun days", we both build and >sell simulators and computer equipment for private individuals who want the >most and the best in sim racing equipment....that money can buy (our systems >usually sell for well into 5-figure amounts...averaging about $20,000 for >complete cockpits and sophisticated, high-tech computers and >displays)....we've build a few systems for some of today's top professional >race car drivers....to "train" on...during the off-season. That is the core >of my business, but we are also involved in many "off-shoots" and side >elements of sim racing, including software design, sound effects design and >sim program development. I am a full member of IGDA (International Game >Developers Association) and attend most of the world's major trade shows for >the gaming industry (E3 in Los Angeles being the biggest of these). We are >still a very small, but rapidly growing company. And....I still sim race >(online) almost every day! > >This all started with one simple racing "game" (much less sophisticated than >the Viper Racing I have suggested to you above)....and an old analogue >racing wheel (a TM NASCAR Pro analogue controller...don't think they even >make it anymore). There are people I race with regularly who are in their >early teens.....and guys who I have raced with for many years who are in >their 50's and 60's (I'm one of those guys....lol). I would guess the >average age of a serious sim driver....to be early 30's....but that is only >an educated guess. This is not an "activity" only for kids.....not by a >long shot is this only for kids! > >So, there you have it....the "possibilities" open to you are >endless.....almost. Have fun....that's the key.....and if you want to give >this a try....go take my suggestions above and keep coming back here for >information. Okay? > >Regards, > >Tom Pabst >Pabst-Racing >

Most all wheels have shifters & you can get a wheel with 2 {right & left} anolog paddles right on your wheel that can be used for gas & brake as the TM Sprint has or if you want it in FF for a $100+ the Guillemot aka Thrustmaster Ferrari race wheel does the same{and this is what I use!!} Happy Shopping Thom_j.. <g> "Gene Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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| | Thanks for your response. One thing I don't understand, does the | wheel / pedal setup have a shifter? If not how is this accomplished? | | On another note if I wanted to use only the wheel and not the pedals | is this possible. I ask this to see if a 7 year old could play an | acade type, but he certainly couldn't reach the pedals.

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