Cart and Indy Sims

With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between these two forms of motor racing. Thanks PJ

"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote: >With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some >kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between >these two forms of motor racing. CART: turbo 2.65 liter engines, race on ovals, street, and road courses IRL: normally aspirated 3.5 liter engines, oval tracks only For the full story, check their web sites: http://www.cart.com/ http://www.indyracingleague.com/

Both have thier roots in American Open Wheel racing run by the USAC organization, (United States Auto Club) that sanctioned the Indy 500 race. A group of owners broke off from USAC and form CART, Championship Auto Racing Teams. They ran the league from then on and this also included spending all of the month of May at Indianapolis. Well about 15 years ago, the owner of the Indy track..whose name I shall not utter or type, decided he didn't have enough control over how the series was run. So about 5 or 6 years ago he formed his own league, and used the most famous race at the most famous track as a CLUB to entice owners to join his league. This Spawn of the Devil effectively SPLIT American open wheel racing into two factions...both have different engine and chassis formulas and both have different rules about how the engines are modified. Irl uses normally aspirated engines which the teams own and therefore can modifiy them somewhat(within the rules) CART engines are leased to the teams by the engine manufactuer's and supposedly, nobody is supposed to even crack them open...just bolt them in...use'em and then return them to a specified shop for rebuilds. IRL at this point is Oval ONLY.(IRL stands for Indy Racing League) They have a court injunction preventing the CART teams from using the term INDY so the CART cars are now called Championship Cars or Champ Cars. So the IRL has about 10 little races and 1 HUGE race. CART now has 20+ races that generally draw well but not as good as a Nascar event, and they have no INDY race to pad thier viewer and track attendance statistics. Although the Devil's child did relax his restrictive rules and allow the CART teams to enter, and at least two teams will this year, but the gate and advertising money still goes to the IRL side. Which series is better? That was easy several years ago, The CART show had the established stars, but the IRL is improving it's show by using high drag/downforce configurations that often produce close packs of racers...although not at Homestead. dave henrie "Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7yUB6.19140$[email hidden]... > With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some > kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference isbetween

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> these two forms of motor racing. > > Thanks > > PJ > >

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:40:52 GMT, Chris Noto <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some >>kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between >>these two forms of motor racing. > >CART: turbo 2.65 liter engines, race on ovals, street, and road courses

* about 850-900 HP * engines are higher tech and leased from manufacturers * less downforce * higher costs * perceived by many as a higher level of racing (vs IRL) >IRL: normally aspirated 3.5 liter engines, oval tracks only * about 650 HP? * rev-limiters and other technical limitations * engines are bought and tweaked by the teams (or usually an outside shop) * more downforce (at many of the tracks you hear that the top qualifiers are "flat" [full throttle] all the way around) * lower costs There is talk of CART going to a 3.5 liter normally aspirated formula for 2003, but there will still probably be differences in the engines (rev limiters, leasing, etc). Not to mention chassis differences. But they seem to be getting closer to getting CART (or at least its members) back to Indy... PS - Be careful asking this question, it's the racing equivalent of asking "what's the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland?" :| "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

so us ignorant Brits know the difference now between Cart and Indy, but this one wants to know whats the difference between NASCAR and IROC?

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:19:46 +0100, "Semi" <[email hidden]> wrote: >so us ignorant Brits know the difference now between Cart and Indy, but this >one wants to know whats the difference between NASCAR and IROC? NASCAR is the national "stock" car championship. Stock cars are basically large V8 engines with a roll cage and a lot of sheet metal. They pretend to be cars you can buy off the showroom floor. But they are hardly stock. IROC is a series that claims to be the "International Race of Champions". The series is invitation only. Just because it claims to be a series for champions doesn't mean you need to be one. They race 4 races a year and oval tracks only. The cars are built very much like "stock" cars. Basically it's a series that caters to NASCAR drivers. (too bad they don't have a road racing IROC...it would be much more entertaining)

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> IROC is a series that claims to be the "International Race of > Champions". The series is invitation only. Just because it claims to > be a series for champions doesn't mean you need to be one. They race > 4 races a year and oval tracks only. The cars are built very much > like "stock" cars. Basically it's a series that caters to NASCAR > drivers. (too bad they don't have a road racing IROC...it would be > much more entertaining)

IROC originally was a great idea. They got Euro and American drivers together on Road Courses AND Ovals. But nascar took it over many years ago and it became an oval only spec series.. dave henrie

I believe IROC raed on a road course (Riverside?) in the early years (70's) ....but I'm not positive.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:20:04 GMT, ra300z <[email hidden]> wrote: <SNIP>

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>IROC is a series that claims to be the "International Race of >Champions". The series is invitation only. Just because it claims to >be a series for champions doesn't mean you need to be one. They race >4 races a year and oval tracks only. The cars are built very much >like "stock" cars. Basically it's a series that caters to NASCAR >drivers. (too bad they don't have a road racing IROC...it would be >much more entertaining)

I concur -- the ideal IROC series would include short ovals (Phoenix?), super speedways (Indy, Daytona, and Texas), road courses (Road America or Spa), street courses (Long Beach? Monaco!), and even a dirt track or two (Eldora and Knoxville?). It might even need 3 different types of cars for the different venues: Full-bodied stock cars like it uses now for the short ovals; open-wheel Indy-style cars (Indy Lights, CART, or IRL spec) for the speedways and road/street courses; and an open wheel or modified type car for the dirt events. THAT would be an "International Race Of Champions!" ;-) -- JB

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 15:33:52 GMT, [email hidden] (Jeff Vincent) wrote:

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>On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:40:52 GMT, Chris Noto <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>>With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some >>>kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between >>>these two forms of motor racing. >> >>CART: turbo 2.65 liter engines, race on ovals, street, and road courses > >* about 850-900 HP >* engines are higher tech and leased from manufacturers >* less downforce >* higher costs >* perceived by many as a higher level of racing (vs IRL) > >>IRL: normally aspirated 3.5 liter engines, oval tracks only > >* about 650 HP? >* rev-limiters and other technical limitations >* engines are bought and tweaked by the teams (or usually an outside >shop) >* more downforce (at many of the tracks you hear that the top >qualifiers are "flat" [full throttle] all the way around) >* lower costs > > There is talk of CART going to a 3.5 liter normally aspirated >formula for 2003, but there will still probably be differences in the >engines (rev limiters, leasing, etc). Not to mention chassis >differences. But they seem to be getting closer to getting CART (or >at least its members) back to Indy...

The chassis specs -- length, height, width, and weight -- are MUCH closer than most people realize. IRL cars are optimized for ovals only, and might not be very suitable for road courses, but I would imagine that a CART chassis spec would work very well on the IRL's ovals. Watch for some reunification -- or at least cooperation and cross-promotion -- between both series in the near future. ;-) -- JB

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:23:39 GMT, Robert S <[email hidden]> wrote: > >I believe IROC raed on a road course (Riverside?) in the early years (70's) ....but I'm not positive. Yes. IROC used to race on NASCAR. But as another poster mentions, NASCAR took it over. AFAIK Darrell Waltrip won the last IROC road racing event at Mid-Ohio in 1989 or 1990.

Paul, Thanks for asking this question. I've been wondering about it myself for some time but was afraid to ask. (Silly, I know). Cheers, Jens P.S: And now I have to worry about Jan V., who has threatened to stalk me... Paul Jager wrote:

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> With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some > kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between > these two forms of motor racing. > > Thanks > > PJ

Eh? Wha? -Oh yeah... I sort of remember. Thanks for reminding me! ;-) Anyway, the main difference between CART and IRL is the organising body. The IRL is a breakaway single seater oval series spawned from a disagreement between the CART organisation and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway (The Brickyard, host to the "Indy500") management. I'm sure there are technical differences too as, because of the nature of the conflict, Champcars (cars to CART specification) cannot be eligable to run in the Indy500. Jan./one shouldn't take all of my comments literally. <g> =--- Jens H. Kruuse wrote...

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> Paul, > > Thanks for asking this question. I've been wondering about > it myself for some time but was afraid to ask. (Silly, I know). > > Cheers, > Jens > > P.S: And now I have to worry about Jan V., who has threatened > to stalk me...

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:31:43 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> IROC is a series that claims to be the "International Race of >> Champions". The series is invitation only. Just because it claims to >> be a series for champions doesn't mean you need to be one. They race >> 4 races a year and oval tracks only. The cars are built very much >> like "stock" cars. Basically it's a series that caters to NASCAR >> drivers. (too bad they don't have a road racing IROC...it would be >> much more entertaining) > > IROC originally was a great idea. They got Euro and American drivers >together >on Road Courses AND Ovals. But nascar took it over many years ago and >it became an oval only spec series..

The first year of IROC (1974) used Porsche Carrera RSRs at tracks like Daytona (the road course) and Riverside. Drivers like Mark Donohue, Emerson Fittipaldi, Denis Hulme, Richard Petty, A.J. Foyt, Bobby Unser. Cool! :) Look at www.irocracing.com ("History" link) for more info. Shortly after there was a considerably dilution to a sort of "NASCAR Lite" (mostly NASCAR drivers in NASCAR-like sedans on NASCAR ovals). The spec series was the core of the concept -- the cars are provided and maintained by the series organizers and are supposedly equal within 5 HP or so to each other. It was supposed to be a series to determine the best driver from differing racing disciplines. Somehow they mostly seem to be good ol' boys now. :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> writes: > >P.S: And now I have to worry about Jan V., who has threatened to stalk me... > The next GP race is may 6th...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.