Help! iRacing resistance breaking down thanks to Week13 fun races

I need a bit of rational perspective from you guys. I'm inside the iFence for another couple of months (on the half price offer from a while back). But next week is the Week13 'fun' week, where iRacing stops being a racing concentration camp and becomes more of a holiday camp instead. (Well, they take off the handcuffs and stop beating you with the Safety Rating for a while anyway.) Races on offer... half hourly Late Models at Talladega. Bound to be a disaster with no safety rating in place, but there's potential for heaps of fun (and abuse from the seasoned oval drivers, but that's a bonus!) I used to race Talladega a lot in the Nascar series, and enjoy the big ovals as a unique form of high speed racing. Well, until I fall off the end of the pack and can't catch up. :-) It's a tempting format for me to buy into, but I'd need the car and the track ($35) and probably wouldn't use them much again... though the Late Model might make a pleasant change when I fancy some left turn racing. Having said that, I think I'd need to buy about five tracks for a Late Model season, so I'd hardly ever be able to race without spending more money. And I kind of object to spending a penny on tracks with so few turns in them anyway. You'd expect them to be $5, not $20! Then there's the road racing. This time they're offering Laguna Seca with Solstice, Riley, and Radical in mixed class races every half hour with up to 46 drivers! Sounds very tempting indeed. Total chaos, but still tempting. :-) Except at this stage you have to own all vehicles in order to drive (they're looking at changing this apparently, eventually). So that means $30's worth of cars which I probably won't (or can't in the case of the Riley) race after next week. And of course the other factor is that at the times I drive there's rarely anything like 46 drivers on the whole of iRacing, so I really shouldn't let that mirage drag me into spending money. Mmm... I can feel the enthusiasm leaking out of my fingers even as I type. I must bottle this lack-of-enthusiasm and save it for the next weak moment. Of course... if I signed up for a year (to justify renting more cars etc) that'd give me 60 iDollars to spend on cars & tracks, and the 20% discount kicks in for six cars or tracks, and... and... And the iConfusion continues! It's a curse, I tell you, not a hobby. :-) Andrew McP

Andrew, One perspective, at least to me is.... When VHS triumped over Beta, the movies available on beta became scarce as heck. RPG games set this trend (making money) with several genre's, sims, warcraft etc... Servers and bandwidth cost MONEY. If you dont make money producing a product, you dont produce it, for long. (Unless you are the us government which confiscates taxes to continue to give out when they cant make money providing goods or services... Ask General motors or Dodge). There always is a balance, $15 crap little software for your Iphone that makes some person that was smart enough to produce it and sell it, a 6 figure income in less than a year, or that $15 worthless iphone app that nobody wants to "pay" for that the guy never gets rich off of for making it the last 2 years. Im saying Free servers to host games on are long gone. if you wanted to join a league with 12 of your closest friends, rent the server to run rfactor on, and divide the costs between all of you (and share in the headache of managment-scorekeeping-stewarding) it would cost ya somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 per person per year, plus the software (for each of you to install on the PC) plus the afore mentioned upkeep time... So just how valueable it iRacing? TO me, I hate hunting for the latest rfactor/mod/track patch combination that works relatively well, and making them easily to install for you and your 11 friends... I go home after 12 hours lost per 4 day week trying to make a living, and boot my PC, click Internet explorer's desktop link icon, sign in, pick my series and session, (update if needed which happens not more than once a month it seems) and race! WIth rfactor I would hunt for 3 hours, (give or take) upgrade the mod, track whatever. and goto bed and hope the next night I would still be current enough to get in a race... I agree somewhat, my time is "free," & I should want to fill it doing things for "free" or low cost if I want to work at it, but there are times I feel I really enjoy the work already done for me! is it worth the $, well IMHO a 90 minute movie at the theater for $9 bucks is utter crap 9 of 10 times (before I quit going years ago when I was younger). so 20 bucks hold the pop and popcorn vs 3 hours of racing one night a week? excuse me? No brainer. iRacing wins. "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>I need a bit of rational perspective from you guys. I'm inside the iFence >for > another couple of months (on the half price offer from a while back). But > next week > is the Week13 'fun' week, where iRacing stops being a racing concentration > camp and > becomes more of a holiday camp instead. (Well, they take off the handcuffs > and stop > beating you with the Safety Rating for a while anyway.) > > Races on offer... half hourly Late Models at Talladega. Bound to be a > disaster with > no safety rating in place, but there's potential for heaps of fun (and > abuse from > the seasoned oval drivers, but that's a bonus!) > > I used to race Talladega a lot in the Nascar series, and enjoy the big > ovals as a > unique form of high speed racing. Well, until I fall off the end of the > pack and > can't catch up. :-) It's a tempting format for me to buy into, but I'd > need the car > and the track ($35) and probably wouldn't use them much again... though > the Late > Model might make a pleasant change when I fancy some left turn racing. > > Having said that, I think I'd need to buy about five tracks for a Late > Model season, > so I'd hardly ever be able to race without spending more money. And I kind > of > object to spending a penny on tracks with so few turns in them anyway. > You'd expect > them to be $5, not $20! > > Then there's the road racing. This time they're offering Laguna Seca with > Solstice, > Riley, and Radical in mixed class races every half hour with up to 46 > drivers! > Sounds very tempting indeed. Total chaos, but still tempting. :-) > > Except at this stage you have to own all vehicles in order to drive > (they're > looking at changing this apparently, eventually). So that means $30's > worth of cars > which I probably won't (or can't in the case of the Riley) race after next > week. > > And of course the other factor is that at the times I drive there's rarely > anything > like 46 drivers on the whole of iRacing, so I really shouldn't let that > mirage drag > me into spending money. > > Mmm... I can feel the enthusiasm leaking out of my fingers even as I type. > I must > bottle this lack-of-enthusiasm and save it for the next weak moment. > > Of course... if I signed up for a year (to justify renting more cars etc) > that'd > give me 60 iDollars to spend on cars & tracks, and the 20% discount kicks > in for > six cars or tracks, and... and... > > And the iConfusion continues! It's a curse, I tell you, not a hobby. :-) > > Andrew McP > > >

I race in 2 rFactor leagues using the 1995 CART mod by iDT. We do a little pickup racing and my team gets together in our own server and Team Speak and do setup development. We run a combination of Ovals and Roadies. We race with our long term friends. We were thinking about iRacing again but we feel like going to SIM racing drivers school is not needed because we have already been SIM Racing for 10 years. And none of us really want to drive low powered cars. And all the negatives that go along with iRacing just don't add up to a great experience like we create in our other leagues. With all the negative post I see from iRacing members, I can't see getting involved again. Basically, iRacing doesn't offer the ability to Drive the car I want to drive and race with my friends when I want to race, in league races we organize. I'm trying to figure out what iRacing really has going for it except for the very small group of the sickening "Come to iRacing Jesus" crowd. I know John Henry has money to throw away ... but if he was smart, he'd throw that "SIM Racing school" concept away and let the racers get back to racing. I don't need to have arrogant a-holes tell me how good I am, driving their drastically underdeveloped racing game that they think is a new sport. Man do they have their head up their arses. Race2Play blows iRacing away! Send iRacing a message .... stop subscribing. These iRacing people are the same dickheads that screwed with everyone back in 2004. Now they want you to "submit" to their flawed concept. I'd buy all the tracks and their cars I wanted to drive in one fell swoop. Just get rid of the "iRacing brain police." Niles Anders "Having much more fun then any iRacer." Andrew MacPherson wrote:

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> I need a bit of rational perspective from you guys. I'm inside the iFence for > another couple of months (on the half price offer from a while back). But next week > is the Week13 'fun' week, where iRacing stops being a racing concentration camp and > becomes more of a holiday camp instead. (Well, they take off the handcuffs and stop > beating you with the Safety Rating for a while anyway.) > > Races on offer... half hourly Late Models at Talladega. Bound to be a disaster with > no safety rating in place, but there's potential for heaps of fun (and abuse from > the seasoned oval drivers, but that's a bonus!) > > I used to race Talladega a lot in the Nascar series, and enjoy the big ovals as a > unique form of high speed racing. Well, until I fall off the end of the pack and > can't catch up. :-) It's a tempting format for me to buy into, but I'd need the car > and the track ($35) and probably wouldn't use them much again... though the Late > Model might make a pleasant change when I fancy some left turn racing. > > Having said that, I think I'd need to buy about five tracks for a Late Model season, > so I'd hardly ever be able to race without spending more money. And I kind of > object to spending a penny on tracks with so few turns in them anyway. You'd expect > them to be $5, not $20! > > Then there's the road racing. This time they're offering Laguna Seca with Solstice, > Riley, and Radical in mixed class races every half hour with up to 46 drivers! > Sounds very tempting indeed. Total chaos, but still tempting. :-) > > Except at this stage you have to own all vehicles in order to drive (they're > looking at changing this apparently, eventually). So that means $30's worth of cars > which I probably won't (or can't in the case of the Riley) race after next week. > > And of course the other factor is that at the times I drive there's rarely anything > like 46 drivers on the whole of iRacing, so I really shouldn't let that mirage drag > me into spending money. > > Mmm... I can feel the enthusiasm leaking out of my fingers even as I type. I must > bottle this lack-of-enthusiasm and save it for the next weak moment. > > Of course... if I signed up for a year (to justify renting more cars etc) that'd > give me 60 iDollars to spend on cars & tracks, and the 20% discount kicks in for > six cars or tracks, and... and... > > And the iConfusion continues! It's a curse, I tell you, not a hobby. :-) > > Andrew McP > > >

[email hidden] (Niles Anders) wrote: > Send iRacing a message .... stop subscribing. I have done... twice! But I keep going back because I enjoy the Skip Barber so much. I've said before that it feels like what I hoped GPL2 would be... except that it's GPL2 in a very tight, and rather expensive straightjacket. :-) There continues to be a real divide inside iRacing between those who share the hardcore iRacing vision, and those who want more flexibility. The recent announcement of the schedule for next season has put the cat among the pigeons because they're obviously (to me anyway) trying to cut down on the less popular series to try and concentrate drivers together. But there are still way too many series IMO, with way too few drivers to make this model work properly outside a few peak hours every day. But there are signs that iRacing is becoming more responsive to the desires of the community. There's only one problem really, and that's the need for far more people onboard. And until some real flexibility comes to iRacing, allowing people to race what they want, when they want (to some extent at least), I'm not sure that'll ever happen. In some ways the developing project that is iRacing is more interesting than the racing. Perhaps that's why I'm drawn back... iRacing is part race sim, part sociological experiment. Andrew McP

[email hidden] (PlowBoy) wrote: > No brainer. > iRacing wins. You make valid points, and the changes announced this week make me glad I'm subscribed for another couple of months. But at the root of my personal battle with iRacing is that I'm as tight as a duck's backside. :-) I guess I just don't value the pleasure iRacing gives me enough to part with more (and more and more!) cash in order to participate in the fun parts of iRacing which I'd enjoy *far* more than the core parts of iRacing. If this kind of relaxed racing was a permanent feature I think I'd be happy to part with the money. But for one week in 13, or the occasional '24 heures du fun' which I may not be able to race in, the sums don't really add up for a casual racer like myself. If only the Skip Barber (and perhaps the new Ford) weren't so satisfying to race in! Then I could probably wave iRacing goodbye. But it is the only virtually car I own in any sim now which makes me turn on the games PC down the desk. Nothing else is doing that at the moment. So for that, and maybe that alone, I'm very grateful to iRacing and would love to see them succeed.... albeit in a somewhat different format to now. I suppose, being rational, that means spending nothing on the gimmicks that will give me short term enjoyment, and saving that money for another subscription after the good weather is over. Andrew McP

"Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RCoIl.35631$[email hidden]...

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>I race in 2 rFactor leagues using the 1995 CART mod by iDT. We do a little >pickup racing and my team gets together in our own server and Team Speak >and do setup development. We run a combination of Ovals and Roadies. We >race with our long term friends. > > We were thinking about iRacing again but we feel like going to SIM racing > drivers school is not needed because we have already been SIM Racing for > 10 years.

23-years for me, and I feel the same way you do. I know how not to wreck and I don't need to pay out a load of money to prove it.

Niles, no offense... All I can say is damn, unless you are the king or the son of the king, you don't start ANY PLACE on the planet, AT THE TOP... you work your way up. Sheesh. You have to give a little to get a little, for Jesus Chryslers sake man. If that effort is too much for you, then I don't know if I want to race with you either, you know? While im gone here where I probably crossed the line there... answer me this: if you were to start a real life racing career you are telling me you would "start" in formula one? I know, mostly not just because of money? No, not just money, but also because of Skill. That is all, fair enough? Not saying you aren't damn fine sim racer, maybe your real name is Skip Barber, but even he worked his way up. but I haven't raced you, so how would I know? So you spend a very short 4 weeks showing us (Iracing and me (ONLY saying and me, because I am a member I can see your stats as they accumulate)) that you can drive as fast as you talk... then you move up, no sweat! Some reason you think you should get to skip all that? To me, you sound less like you hate iRacing, but more like you hate competition, earning your way up, and proving yourself. Well IMHO I think you (if that is right) should avoid iRacing at all costs... Hell, if you keep your safety rating pegged at the top you can drive a crapload of cars after the 4 weeks. yes they are promoting rookies over 4.0 every 4 weeks now. I was driving non rookie cars after 4 weeks, plus some time to re-improve my ratings. I will rescind your one point. I agree, allow us to drive more cars (plus the rookie series cars) when you are class d, yet they kinda do try and when there are more cars, I bet they will. if you have class d and above 4 safety you drive class c cars in events. Right now there aren't that many vehicles.

Andrew, look in announcements, there was something posted about TDI series... I shouldn't speculate, but there just might be a VW TDI car or something in not too distant future. I was watching them on speed I think for a couple weekends, they look like fun! I dunno. add that and the ford specs and I dunno not bad... hell I beta'd the dang rfactor nascar mods part, when there wasn't much there either, early on I swear so many people think they are entitled to happiness for free, I guess I was happy that 1/208th of what is around for rfactor now, was all we had and stuff. I again remember TV without cable, Am walkie talkies vs cellphones, and a little bit about 8track stereos. cassettes were so much better but yeah, CD's in some instances are much better, but it just wasn't out yet and we were tickled pink back then too! See you on the track my friend. Plowboy "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (PlowBoy) wrote: > >> No brainer. >> iRacing wins. > > You make valid points, and the changes announced this week make me glad > I'm > subscribed for another couple of months. But at the root of my personal > battle with > iRacing is that I'm as tight as a duck's backside. :-) I guess I just > don't value > the pleasure iRacing gives me enough to part with more (and more and > more!) cash in > order to participate in the fun parts of iRacing which I'd enjoy *far* > more than > the core parts of iRacing. > > If this kind of relaxed racing was a permanent feature I think I'd be > happy to part > with the money. But for one week in 13, or the occasional '24 heures du > fun' which > I may not be able to race in, the sums don't really add up for a casual > racer like > myself. > > If only the Skip Barber (and perhaps the new Ford) weren't so satisfying > to race in! > Then I could probably wave iRacing goodbye. But it is the only virtually > car I own > in any sim now which makes me turn on the games PC down the desk. Nothing > else is > doing that at the moment. > > So for that, and maybe that alone, I'm very grateful to iRacing and would > love to > see them succeed.... albeit in a somewhat different format to now. I > suppose, being > rational, that means spending nothing on the gimmicks that will give me > short term > enjoyment, and saving that money for another subscription after the good > weather is > over. > > Andrew McP > >

PlowBoy, wrote: First off let me say that I love the physics and the scanning concept. Also I like the fact they are using a tire dyno to recon info. > Niles, no offense... All I can say is damn, unless you are the king or the > son of the king, you don't start ANY PLACE on the planet, AT THE TOP... you > work your way up. Sheesh. I'm 56 years old and have already been to school ... even SIM Racing school, I've been SIM Racing for 11 years. I want to race the cars I'm driving now and I don't need to have a faux career to know I can SIM race or get to a car I already know how to drive. That's the game part of iRacing that turns me off. iRacing says it's more SIM but it's really more game. rFactor has a career mode built into it and I don't know one person that's done it ... mostly because they already know how to race ... at least the people I race with. > > You have to give a little to get a little, for Jesus Chryslers sake man. If > that effort is too much for you, then I don't know if I want to race with > you either, you know? I'd beat you anyway. ;) I put in a lot of effort on my 1995 IndyCar leagues ... you don't even know me and you think because it's not iRacing that it doesn't count ... and your holier than thou attitude typifies so many iRacing zealots and that is a main reason why I can't do it. Not only that, iRacing doesn't offer a series type or a car I'm interested in. And if you feel like you need to be validated by progressing through a career, more power to you. But if you feel like the only qualifier for you racing with me is that I have to play that little game that iRacing offers up, rather then judging me on my racing ability ... I don't want to race with you either. And that's exactly why I find so many iRacing zealots arrogant and offensive. And the arrogant divisiveness that iRacing has created, has done more harm to SIM Racing overall then good and all you have to do is look at how many members that have come, then gone, to know they have turned people off. It ain't good. Their megalomaniacal management is flawed. Half the members that have stayed don't like it. People come back to our leagues saying definitively they will not be doing any more iRacing. They have been alienated. It's not just the game that turns people off, it's the arrogance of "We're in iRacing and you're not!" that keep people from going. While im gone here where I probably crossed the line > there... answer me this: if you were to start a real life racing career > you are telling me you would "start" in formula one? I know, mostly not > just because of money? No, not just money, but also because of Skill. That > is all, fair enough? I started in Viper Racing. Then GPL then a dozen other SIM's. But now because iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? "Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM enlightenment." Not saying you aren't damn fine sim racer, maybe your > real name is Skip Barber, but even he worked his way up. Done worked my way up, son. but I haven't > raced you, so how would I know? So you spend a very short 4 weeks showing > us (Iracing and me (ONLY saying and me, because I am a member I can see > your stats as they accumulate)) that you can drive as fast as you talk... > then you move up, no sweat! Some reason you think you should get to skip > all that? I have done iRacing and it takes more then 4 weeks, plus as I said above they don't offer the car I want to drive. Plus I want to race the car I want to race, when I want to race and with whom I want to race. And there is a group of guys over there, that are in control that alienated me and a large group of SIM racers in 2004 and now they want me to pay there wages while being in a format of high restrictions ..... No. I have heard this same argument from a dozen people and I've heard a dozen more have my argument. But all you have to do is look at how many people are subscribed and you have your answer. It's a loser. There is no way that John Henry will continue to back this loser unless they get some more paying members. When I say loser I mean financial loser. Take there employees and estimate their salaries and expenses (office, IT, ....) and then estimate iRacing income and you will see that there is a big hole over there that John Henry's throwing money down and it has no bottom. > > To me, you sound less like you hate iRacing, but more like you hate > competition, earning your way up, and proving yourself. Well IMHO I think > you (if that is right) should avoid iRacing at all costs... Again, your holier than thou attitude. You are what's wrong with iRacing. You and your type.

"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>I need a bit of rational perspective from you guys. I'm inside the iFence >for > another couple of months (on the half price offer from a while back). But > next week > is the Week13 'fun' week, where iRacing stops being a racing concentration > camp and > becomes more of a holiday camp instead. (Well, they take off the handcuffs > and stop > beating you with the Safety Rating for a while anyway.) > > Races on offer... half hourly Late Models at Talladega. Bound to be a > disaster with > no safety rating in place, but there's potential for heaps of fun (and > abuse from > the seasoned oval drivers, but that's a bonus!) > > I used to race Talladega a lot in the Nascar series, and enjoy the big > ovals as a > unique form of high speed racing. Well, until I fall off the end of the > pack and > can't catch up. :-) It's a tempting format for me to buy into, but I'd > need the car > and the track ($35) and probably wouldn't use them much again... though > the Late > Model might make a pleasant change when I fancy some left turn racing. > > Having said that, I think I'd need to buy about five tracks for a Late > Model season, > so I'd hardly ever be able to race without spending more money. And I kind > of > object to spending a penny on tracks with so few turns in them anyway. > You'd expect > them to be $5, not $20! > > Then there's the road racing. This time they're offering Laguna Seca with > Solstice, > Riley, and Radical in mixed class races every half hour with up to 46 > drivers! > Sounds very tempting indeed. Total chaos, but still tempting. :-) > > Except at this stage you have to own all vehicles in order to drive > (they're > looking at changing this apparently, eventually). So that means $30's > worth of cars > which I probably won't (or can't in the case of the Riley) race after next > week. > > And of course the other factor is that at the times I drive there's rarely > anything > like 46 drivers on the whole of iRacing, so I really shouldn't let that > mirage drag > me into spending money. > > Mmm... I can feel the enthusiasm leaking out of my fingers even as I type. > I must > bottle this lack-of-enthusiasm and save it for the next weak moment. > > Of course... if I signed up for a year (to justify renting more cars etc) > that'd > give me 60 iDollars to spend on cars & tracks, and the 20% discount kicks > in for > six cars or tracks, and... and... > > And the iConfusion continues! It's a curse, I tell you, not a hobby. :-) > > Andrew McP >

The "Talledega Nights" fun week is with the Impala SS (COT) not the Late Model just so you don't get the wrong car......:-). Ed

[email hidden] (Ed Medlin) wrote: > The "Talledega Nights" fun week is with the Impala SS (COT) not the > Late Model just so you don't get the wrong car......:-). Oh, how embarrassing! Thanks Ed.... the whole Nascar-family 'same shape, different name' thing is still a bit of a mystery to me! That settles it then, there's no point buying a car I'll definitely never use again outside of fun weeks. In fact now I've calmed down and put homo sapiens back in charge instead of homo iRectus, it's daft to even contemplate spending money on cars I'll get very little use from. Of course it is a nine day week this time, and once I start reading about 46 car mixed class races I may get all over-excited again. :-) Andrew McP

"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Ed Medlin) wrote: > >> The "Talledega Nights" fun week is with the Impala SS (COT) not the >> Late Model just so you don't get the wrong car......:-). > > Oh, how embarrassing! Thanks Ed.... the whole Nascar-family 'same shape, > different > name' thing is still a bit of a mystery to me! That settles it then, > there's no > point buying a car I'll definitely never use again outside of fun weeks. > > In fact now I've calmed down and put homo sapiens back in charge instead > of homo > iRectus, it's daft to even contemplate spending money on cars I'll get > very little > use from. > > Of course it is a nine day week this time, and once I start reading about > 46 car > mixed class races I may get all over-excited again. :-) > > Andrew McP

Something you may or may not get over-excited about is the Spec racer Ford . Free and , what with the imminent death of Pontiac, probably replacing the Solstice. It is replacing it as the rookie advanced road racer. Should be arriving in the updater next Tuesday. DavErb (still having a great time)

[email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: > Something you may or may not get over-excited about is the > Spec racer Ford. I'm *far* more excited about it as a very much needed boost to the format for new subscribers. They may not be able to drive it at first, but it won't take long to qualify for races, and in the mean time they can at least test it and discover (I hope, having never driven it) what potential iRacing has. The Solstice was never cut out to be an advert for anything other than scrap metal dealerships! Hopefully there will be big fields in these races though (a combination of enthusiasts and rookies) then I might get dragged out of my Skip Barber for a while. :-) In the mean time initial race reports form the mixed class races are somewhat glowing. http://www.wegame.com/watch/Mixed_Class_Racing/ Looks like suicide for Solstices though! Andrew McP (facing a week in rookie Solstice/Legends races or nothing at all! So not particularly enjoying being deprived of Skip races. ;-) PS It occurs to me that SRF and Skip mixed races might be rather special, especially if the faster drivers chose the slower car.

"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: > >> Something you may or may not get over-excited about is the >> Spec racer Ford. > > I'm *far* more excited about it as a very much needed boost to the format > for new > subscribers. They may not be able to drive it at first, but it won't take > long to > qualify for races, and in the mean time they can at least test it and > discover (I > hope, having never driven it) what potential iRacing has. The Solstice was > never > cut out to be an advert for anything other than scrap metal dealerships! > > Hopefully there will be big fields in these races though (a combination of > enthusiasts and rookies) then I might get dragged out of my Skip Barber > for a while. > :-) > > In the mean time initial race reports form the mixed class races are > somewhat > glowing. > > http://www.wegame.com/watch/Mixed_Class_Racing/ >

Great vid. But check out the appalling driving of the blue spec racing, who side swipes one car and then bumps another. Clearly there are unsafe Muppets in iRacing still.

dfg.myass@aol (David Fisher's Left Testicle) wrote: > Clearly there are unsafe Muppets > in iRacing still. I'm sure there will be a lot of people who've bought cars just for this race, or who haven't been able to drive them in traffic before because of the class system restrictions. So that kind of driving doesn't surprise me... though that's a particularly poor example! Andrew McP

Niles. I wouldn't doubt you beat me at many things. I was shocked to read that you are 56? you sounded more like 15, in the original post/reply lol. No I'm not being holier than thou I'm trying to put perspective. It is a club, you are old enough to know that you don't even join (back in your day) the neiborhood bully's club without earning respect and rank. The only way to get either is to race, earn points. that was all I meant. Niles, I am not one of those authors that sound as good when typing, I was trying to be provocative but not personal. "Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d8wIl.52478$g%[email hidden]...

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> PlowBoy, wrote: > > First off let me say that I love the physics and the scanning concept. > Also I like the fact they are using a tire dyno to recon info. > >> Niles, no offense... All I can say is damn, unless you are the king or >> the son of the king, you don't start ANY PLACE on the planet, AT THE >> TOP... you work your way up. Sheesh. > > I'm 56 years old and have already been to school ... even SIM Racing > school, I've been SIM Racing for 11 years. I want to race the cars I'm > driving now and I don't need to have a faux career to know I can SIM race > or get to a car I already know how to drive.

I disagree, this same thing weeds the set top mentality people out, which in the whole makes it better... every signup deal-wave that brought newbies to iRacing, brought with them a percentage of those who go "phuck it, floor it into one, wreck & who cares, it is just a game" and we cant handle that as a Club. It has to mimick something, they chose it to mimick more like real life, earn you way up. how else can it be handled? I mean I dont have my own server I cant ban the phucktards but iracing can group them together at least. I do AArmy, it is free all they ask is that you dont cheat, 90% of the servers rank you, from cheats that ban you (punk buster) and kill ratios, time in rank, shit like that, and afaik other games are the same way, howver what is different about iracing doing it the way it is done? little I really feel... >That's the game part of iRacing that turns me off. iRacing says it's more >SIM but it's really more game. rFactor has a career mode built into it and >I don't know one person that's done it ... mostly because they already know >how to race ... at least the people I race with.rFactor had to balance it because what fun is it to sit at home and race the computer? I bought my son (for his xbo360) called dirt, and like you I was instantly turned off that I have to "unlock" a goddamn game I bought. Why it is different for online? I guess I feel some reward that when I join a race with my 4.3 safety rating at oval B licence level, that it should mean to otheres (as it does to me) that I have worked my way up there. Ill finish later I ran out of time....

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>> >> You have to give a little to get a little, for Jesus Chryslers sake man. >> If that effort is too much for you, then I don't know if I want to race >> with you either, you know? > > I'd beat you anyway. ;) I put in a lot of effort on my 1995 IndyCar > leagues ... you don't even know me and you think because it's not iRacing > that it doesn't count ... and your holier than thou attitude typifies so > many iRacing zealots and that is a main reason why I can't do it. Not only > that, iRacing doesn't offer a series type or a car I'm interested in. And > if you feel like you need to be validated by progressing through a career, > more power to you. But if you feel like the only qualifier for you racing > with me is that I have to play that little game that iRacing offers up, > rather then judging me on my racing ability ... I don't want to race with > you either. And that's exactly why I find so many iRacing zealots arrogant > and offensive. And the arrogant divisiveness that iRacing has created, has > done more harm to SIM Racing overall then good and all you have to do is > look at how many members that have come, then gone, to know they have > turned people off. It ain't good. Their megalomaniacal management is > flawed. Half the members that have stayed don't like it. > > People come back to our leagues saying definitively they will not be doing > any more iRacing. They have been alienated. It's not just the game that > turns people off, it's the arrogance of "We're in iRacing and you're not!" > that keep people from going. > > While im gone here where I probably crossed the line >> there... answer me this: if you were to start a real life racing career >> you are telling me you would "start" in formula one? I know, mostly not >> just because of money? No, not just money, but also because of Skill. >> That is all, fair enough? > > I started in Viper Racing. Then GPL then a dozen other SIM's. But now > because iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? "Come to iRacing Jesus. > It's the only path to SIM enlightenment." > > > Not saying you aren't damn fine sim racer, maybe your >> real name is Skip Barber, but even he worked his way up. > > Done worked my way up, son. > > but I haven't >> raced you, so how would I know? So you spend a very short 4 weeks >> showing us (Iracing and me (ONLY saying and me, because I am a member I >> can see your stats as they accumulate)) that you can drive as fast as you >> talk... then you move up, no sweat! Some reason you think you should get >> to skip all that? > > I have done iRacing and it takes more then 4 weeks, plus as I said above > they don't offer the car I want to drive. Plus I want to race the car I > want to race, when I want to race and with whom I want to race. And there > is a group of guys over there, that are in control that alienated me and a > large group of SIM racers in 2004 and now they want me to pay there wages > while being in a format of high restrictions ..... No. > > I have heard this same argument from a dozen people and I've heard a dozen > more have my argument. But all you have to do is look at how many people > are subscribed and you have your answer. It's a loser. There is no way > that John Henry will continue to back this loser unless they get some more > paying members. When I say loser I mean financial loser. Take there > employees and estimate their salaries and expenses (office, IT, ....) and > then estimate iRacing income and you will see that there is a big hole > over there that John Henry's throwing money down and it has no bottom. >> >> To me, you sound less like you hate iRacing, but more like you hate >> competition, earning your way up, and proving yourself. Well IMHO I >> think you (if that is right) should avoid iRacing at all costs... > > Again, your holier than thou attitude. You are what's wrong with iRacing. > You and your type. >

"PlowBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OIqJl.25693$[email hidden]...

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> Niles. > > I wouldn't doubt you beat me at many things. I was shocked to read that > you are 56? you sounded more like 15, in the original post/reply lol. No > I'm not being holier than thou I'm trying to put perspective. It is a > club, you are old enough to know that you don't even join (back in your > day) the neiborhood bully's club without earning respect and rank.

Never wanted too.

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> The only way to get either is to race, earn points. that was all I meant. > > Niles, I am not one of those authors that sound as good when typing, I was > trying to be provocative but not personal. > "Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:d8wIl.52478$g%[email hidden]... >> PlowBoy, wrote: >> >> First off let me say that I love the physics and the scanning concept. >> Also I like the fact they are using a tire dyno to recon info. >> >>> Niles, no offense... All I can say is damn, unless you are the king or >>> the son of the king, you don't start ANY PLACE on the planet, AT THE >>> TOP... you work your way up. Sheesh. >> >> I'm 56 years old and have already been to school ... even SIM Racing >> school, I've been SIM Racing for 11 years. I want to race the cars I'm >> driving now and I don't need to have a faux career to know I can SIM race >> or get to a car I already know how to drive. > > I disagree, this same thing weeds the set top mentality people out, which > in the whole makes it better... every signup deal-wave that brought > newbies to iRacing, brought with them a percentage of those who go "phuck > it, floor it into one, wreck & who cares, it is just a game" and we cant > handle that as a Club. It has to mimick something, they chose it to > mimick more like real life, earn you way up. how else can it be handled? > I mean I dont have my own server I cant ban the phucktards but iracing can > group them together at least. > > I do AArmy, it is free all they ask is that you dont cheat, 90% of the > servers rank you, from cheats that ban you (punk buster) and kill ratios, > time in rank, shit like that, and afaik other games are the same way, > howver what is different about iracing doing it the way it is done? > little I really feel... > >>That's the game part of iRacing that turns me off. iRacing says it's more >>SIM but it's really more game. rFactor has a career mode built into it and >>I don't know one person that's done it ... mostly because they already >>know how to race ... at least the people I race with. > rFactor had to balance it because what fun is it to sit at home and race > the computer? I bought my son (for his xbo360) called dirt, and like you > I was instantly turned off that I have to "unlock" a goddamn game I > bought. Why it is different for online? I guess I feel some reward that > when I join a race with my 4.3 safety rating at oval B licence level, that > it should mean to otheres (as it does to me) that I have worked my way up > there. > > Ill finish later I ran out of time.... >>> >>> You have to give a little to get a little, for Jesus Chryslers sake man. >>> If that effort is too much for you, then I don't know if I want to race >>> with you either, you know? >> >> I'd beat you anyway. ;) I put in a lot of effort on my 1995 IndyCar >> leagues ... you don't even know me and you think because it's not iRacing >> that it doesn't count ... and your holier than thou attitude typifies so >> many iRacing zealots and that is a main reason why I can't do it. Not >> only that, iRacing doesn't offer a series type or a car I'm interested >> in. And if you feel like you need to be validated by progressing through >> a career, more power to you. But if you feel like the only qualifier for >> you racing with me is that I have to play that little game that iRacing >> offers up, rather then judging me on my racing ability ... I don't want >> to race with you either. And that's exactly why I find so many iRacing >> zealots arrogant and offensive. And the arrogant divisiveness that >> iRacing has created, has done more harm to SIM Racing overall then good >> and all you have to do is look at how many members that have come, then >> gone, to know they have turned people off. It ain't good. Their >> megalomaniacal management is flawed. Half the members that have stayed >> don't like it. >> >> People come back to our leagues saying definitively they will not be >> doing any more iRacing. They have been alienated. It's not just the game >> that turns people off, it's the arrogance of "We're in iRacing and you're >> not!" that keep people from going. >> >> While im gone here where I probably crossed the line >>> there... answer me this: if you were to start a real life racing >>> career you are telling me you would "start" in formula one? I know, >>> mostly not just because of money? No, not just money, but also because >>> of Skill. That is all, fair enough? >> >> I started in Viper Racing. Then GPL then a dozen other SIM's. But now >> because iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? "Come to iRacing Jesus. >> It's the only path to SIM enlightenment." >> >> >> Not saying you aren't damn fine sim racer, maybe your >>> real name is Skip Barber, but even he worked his way up. >> >> Done worked my way up, son. >> >> but I haven't >>> raced you, so how would I know? So you spend a very short 4 weeks >>> showing us (Iracing and me (ONLY saying and me, because I am a member I >>> can see your stats as they accumulate)) that you can drive as fast as >>> you talk... then you move up, no sweat! Some reason you think you >>> should get to skip all that? >> >> I have done iRacing and it takes more then 4 weeks, plus as I said above >> they don't offer the car I want to drive. Plus I want to race the car I >> want to race, when I want to race and with whom I want to race. And there >> is a group of guys over there, that are in control that alienated me and >> a large group of SIM racers in 2004 and now they want me to pay there >> wages while being in a format of high restrictions ..... No. >> >> I have heard this same argument from a dozen people and I've heard a >> dozen more have my argument. But all you have to do is look at how many >> people are subscribed and you have your answer. It's a loser. There is no >> way that John Henry will continue to back this loser unless they get some >> more paying members. When I say loser I mean financial loser. Take there >> employees and estimate their salaries and expenses (office, IT, ....) and >> then estimate iRacing income and you will see that there is a big hole >> over there that John Henry's throwing money down and it has no bottom. >>> >>> To me, you sound less like you hate iRacing, but more like you hate >>> competition, earning your way up, and proving yourself. Well IMHO I >>> think you (if that is right) should avoid iRacing at all costs... >> >> Again, your holier than thou attitude. You are what's wrong with iRacing. >> You and your type. >> >

testicle thanks for interjecting yourself into the discussion, but please try to read the not so elaborate rants at least once, then think about what is being said... the "bully club" was mentioned as it is probably the easiest club you can join, in fat as I understand it you kids are hell pressed to not join one, end even more you don't start at the top of that food chain either, so saying you didn't want to join one, then cross that one off, and insert the fucking club you would have liked to see typed there, maybe it is the fucking playboy club, I don't know, but I again refer you to, that you don't get Hef's benefits just for paying the entry fee to the club, for Chrysler's sake... "David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message news:8ZqJl.96206$[email hidden]...

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> > "PlowBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OIqJl.25693$[email hidden]... >> Niles. >> >> I wouldn't doubt you beat me at many things. I was shocked to read that >> you are 56? you sounded more like 15, in the original post/reply lol. >> No I'm not being holier than thou I'm trying to put perspective. It is a >> club, you are old enough to know that you don't even join (back in your >> day) the neiborhood bully's club without earning respect and rank. > > Never wanted too. > > > >> The only way to get either is to race, earn points. that was all I >> meant. >> >> Niles, I am not one of those authors that sound as good when typing, I >> was trying to be provocative but not personal. >> "Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:d8wIl.52478$g%[email hidden]... >>> PlowBoy, wrote: >>> >>> First off let me say that I love the physics and the scanning concept. >>> Also I like the fact they are using a tire dyno to recon info. >>> >>>> Niles, no offense... All I can say is damn, unless you are the king or >>>> the son of the king, you don't start ANY PLACE on the planet, AT THE >>>> TOP... you work your way up. Sheesh. >>> >>> I'm 56 years old and have already been to school ... even SIM Racing >>> school, I've been SIM Racing for 11 years. I want to race the cars I'm >>> driving now and I don't need to have a faux career to know I can SIM >>> race or get to a car I already know how to drive. >> >> I disagree, this same thing weeds the set top mentality people out, which >> in the whole makes it better... every signup deal-wave that brought >> newbies to iRacing, brought with them a percentage of those who go "phuck >> it, floor it into one, wreck & who cares, it is just a game" and we cant >> handle that as a Club. It has to mimick something, they chose it to >> mimick more like real life, earn you way up. how else can it be handled? >> I mean I dont have my own server I cant ban the phucktards but iracing >> can group them together at least. >> >> I do AArmy, it is free all they ask is that you dont cheat, 90% of the >> servers rank you, from cheats that ban you (punk buster) and kill ratios, >> time in rank, shit like that, and afaik other games are the same way, >> howver what is different about iracing doing it the way it is done? >> little I really feel... >> >>>That's the game part of iRacing that turns me off. iRacing says it's more >>>SIM but it's really more game. rFactor has a career mode built into it >>>and I don't know one person that's done it ... mostly because they >>>already know how to race ... at least the people I race with. >> rFactor had to balance it because what fun is it to sit at home and race >> the computer? I bought my son (for his xbo360) called dirt, and like you >> I was instantly turned off that I have to "unlock" a goddamn game I >> bought. Why it is different for online? I guess I feel some reward that >> when I join a race with my 4.3 safety rating at oval B licence level, >> that it should mean to otheres (as it does to me) that I have worked my >> way up there. >> >> Ill finish later I ran out of time.... >>>> >>>> You have to give a little to get a little, for Jesus Chryslers sake >>>> man. If that effort is too much for you, then I don't know if I want to >>>> race with you either, you know? >>> >>> I'd beat you anyway. ;) I put in a lot of effort on my 1995 IndyCar >>> leagues ... you don't even know me and you think because it's not >>> iRacing that it doesn't count ... and your holier than thou attitude >>> typifies so many iRacing zealots and that is a main reason why I can't >>> do it. Not only that, iRacing doesn't offer a series type or a car I'm >>> interested in. And if you feel like you need to be validated by >>> progressing through a career, more power to you. But if you feel like >>> the only qualifier for you racing with me is that I have to play that >>> little game that iRacing offers up, rather then judging me on my racing >>> ability ... I don't want to race with you either. And that's exactly why >>> I find so many iRacing zealots arrogant and offensive. And the arrogant >>> divisiveness that iRacing has created, has done more harm to SIM Racing >>> overall then good and all you have to do is look at how many members >>> that have come, then gone, to know they have turned people off. It ain't >>> good. Their megalomaniacal management is flawed. Half the members that >>> have stayed don't like it. >>> >>> People come back to our leagues saying definitively they will not be >>> doing any more iRacing. They have been alienated. It's not just the game >>> that turns people off, it's the arrogance of "We're in iRacing and >>> you're not!" that keep people from going. >>> >>> While im gone here where I probably crossed the line >>>> there... answer me this: if you were to start a real life racing >>>> career you are telling me you would "start" in formula one? I know, >>>> mostly not just because of money? No, not just money, but also because >>>> of Skill. That is all, fair enough? >>> >>> I started in Viper Racing. Then GPL then a dozen other SIM's. But now >>> because iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? "Come to iRacing >>> Jesus. It's the only path to SIM enlightenment." >>> >>> >>> Not saying you aren't damn fine sim racer, maybe your >>>> real name is Skip Barber, but even he worked his way up. >>> >>> Done worked my way up, son. >>> >>> but I haven't >>>> raced you, so how would I know? So you spend a very short 4 weeks >>>> showing us (Iracing and me (ONLY saying and me, because I am a member >>>> I can see your stats as they accumulate)) that you can drive as fast as >>>> you talk... then you move up, no sweat! Some reason you think you >>>> should get to skip all that? >>> >>> I have done iRacing and it takes more then 4 weeks, plus as I said above >>> they don't offer the car I want to drive. Plus I want to race the car I >>> want to race, when I want to race and with whom I want to race. And >>> there is a group of guys over there, that are in control that alienated >>> me and a large group of SIM racers in 2004 and now they want me to pay >>> there wages while being in a format of high restrictions ..... No. >>> >>> I have heard this same argument from a dozen people and I've heard a >>> dozen more have my argument. But all you have to do is look at how many >>> people are subscribed and you have your answer. It's a loser. There is >>> no way that John Henry will continue to back this loser unless they get >>> some more paying members. When I say loser I mean financial loser. Take >>> there employees and estimate their salaries and expenses (office, IT, >>> ....) and then estimate iRacing income and you will see that there is a >>> big hole over there that John Henry's throwing money down and it has no >>> bottom. >>>> >>>> To me, you sound less like you hate iRacing, but more like you hate >>>> competition, earning your way up, and proving yourself. Well IMHO I >>>> think you (if that is right) should avoid iRacing at all costs... >>> >>> Again, your holier than thou attitude. You are what's wrong with >>> iRacing. You and your type. >>> >> >

Typical Testicular, takes a vid that supports ANYTHING except what you hate about iRacing, what you got and what you are using for evidence was a bunch of "Join the race, it is a game, it don't count, pass and wreck or whatever it is just a game mentality bullshit.." called 13th week, where wrecks and ratings don't count, and everyone knows it. Funny still is, that you keep telling all of us you want iRacing to let everyone do this from signup onward! Plus you want it for free, right? Kewl beans. "David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message news:duTIl.94618$[email hidden]...

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> > "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> [email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: >> >>> Something you may or may not get over-excited about is the >>> Spec racer Ford. >> >> I'm *far* more excited about it as a very much needed boost to the format >> for new >> subscribers. They may not be able to drive it at first, but it won't take >> long to >> qualify for races, and in the mean time they can at least test it and >> discover (I >> hope, having never driven it) what potential iRacing has. The Solstice >> was never >> cut out to be an advert for anything other than scrap metal dealerships! >> >> Hopefully there will be big fields in these races though (a combination >> of >> enthusiasts and rookies) then I might get dragged out of my Skip Barber >> for a while. >> :-) >> >> In the mean time initial race reports form the mixed class races are >> somewhat >> glowing. >> >> http://www.wegame.com/watch/Mixed_Class_Racing/ >> > Great vid. But check out the appalling driving of the blue spec racing, > who side swipes one car and then bumps another. Clearly there are unsafe > Muppets in iRacing still.

"Part 2" Please Niles dont take me that badly, I was hurried last week.

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> I'm 56 years old and have already been to school ... even SIM Racing > school, I've been SIM Racing for 11 years. I want to race the cars I'm > driving now and I don't need to have a faux career to know I can SIM race > or get to a car I already know how to drive. That's the game part of > iRacing that turns me off. iRacing says it's more SIM but it's really more > game. rFactor has a career mode built into it and I don't know one person > that's done it ... mostly because they already know how to race ... at > least the people I race with. >> >> You have to give a little to get a little, for Jesus Chryslers sake man. >> If that effort is too much for you, then I don't know if I want to race >> with you either, you know? > > I'd beat you anyway. ;) I put in a lot of effort on my 1995 IndyCar > leagues ... you don't even know me and you think because it's not iRacing > that it doesn't count

Damn dude, I been racing online since the late 80's had to prove myself each and every league I ever joined or started, there are quite a few I was in as well, bud. it is no sweat, you just have an attitude maybe because you are comfortable, I can relate BTW>. It was hard at first. think positive. Nobody it trying to take you to the dark side, if you hate it, then fine. Im not going to say the iRacing gods will strike you down, LOL. Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A: bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to? I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please. Is that not what youre saying? I know you are older, Im 43, I kind of feel that way to at first. You will just have to trust me, reward without some accomplishment, well it is nothing. You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem. Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so I didnt hate it as much... that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that is all. Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, without some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont lie to me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years Im not holier than thou trying to point these things out to you... Lord knows I have had to be reminded as well. I still hate the game called DIRT, but I love racing (C)ORR2 in rFactor with other people who take it at least a little seriously (like minded people who race you hard, race clean, and arent afraid to rub as well, compared to joining in with a bunch of phucktards. join 5 races this week, if they arent the same guys each time, tell me it wasnt chaos. AND unless I own the server it is hard to run the tards off... Then there was that little problem with, you made 1 guy out of 20 on the server admin group pissed and you are banned (unless the other 19 like you enough to force the one guy to grow up). Some of this is experience some is seeing it done! you know as well as I do how it goes, since you been racing since Viper (loved that sim as well, BTW)! I started online racing right after hawaii (nascar original) when we only had TEN which was 20 bucks a month if you signed up for 6 months at a time, PLUS I had to pay fucking long distance to get online, AND pay for internet access dialup speeds that was not cheap like now... You want it bad enough, and it is good enough, you will pay... you sound like someone who isnt that different. It aint like stealing music days of the 80's and 90's, where they get paid for radio and LP sales, and keep making music. nope today stuff costs more. I think this is it, online racing... Your dime! or else it wont exist. dont need to be Nostradomas to see that either. I read above this and thought, dang dude sounds very cool and one of those guys you could have fun racing with... then I read below, and say fuck it, whatever man. ... and your holier than thou attitude

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> typifies so many iRacing zealots and that is a main reason why I can't do > it. Not only that, iRacing doesn't offer a series type or a car I'm > interested in. And if you feel like you need to be validated by > progressing through a career, more power to you. But if you feel like the > only qualifier for you racing with me is that I have to play that little > game that iRacing offers up, rather then judging me on my racing ability > ... I don't want to race with you either. And that's exactly why I find so > many iRacing zealots arrogant and offensive. And the arrogant divisiveness > that iRacing has created, has done more harm to SIM Racing overall then > good and all you have to do is look at how many members that have come, > then gone, to know they have turned people off. It ain't good. Their > megalomaniacal management is flawed. Half the members that have stayed > don't like it. > > People come back to our leagues saying definitively they will not be doing > any more iRacing. They have been alienated. It's not just the game that > turns people off, it's the arrogance of "We're in iRacing and you're not!" > that keep people from going.

Like there havent been people who didnt like the way you ran things either, so would you suggest on what you know that I join your league, or would you suggest on what others are bitching about your leage to stay the hell away? (assuming of course that you didnt already hate me for my holier than thou iRacing attitude I seem to have, please answere that)

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> > While im gone here where I probably crossed the line >> there... answer me this: if you were to start a real life racing career >> you are telling me you would "start" in formula one? I know, mostly not >> just because of money? No, not just money, but also because of Skill. >> That is all, fair enough? > > I started in Viper Racing. Then GPL then a dozen other SIM's. But now > because iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? "Come to iRacing Jesus. > It's the only path to SIM enlightenment."

What do I hate about iRacing? I like pretty much everything eccept the price and fanboys like you. "PlowBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KQrJl.28029$[email hidden]...

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> Typical Testicular, > > takes a vid that supports ANYTHING except what you hate about iRacing, > what you got and what you are using for evidence was a bunch of "Join the > race, it is a game, it don't count, pass and wreck or whatever it is just > a game mentality bullshit.." called 13th week, where wrecks and ratings > don't count, and everyone knows it. Funny still is, that you keep telling > all of us you want iRacing to let everyone do this from signup onward! > Plus you want it for free, right? Kewl beans. > > "David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message > news:duTIl.94618$[email hidden]... >> >> "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >>> [email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: >>> >>>> Something you may or may not get over-excited about is the >>>> Spec racer Ford. >>> >>> I'm *far* more excited about it as a very much needed boost to the >>> format for new >>> subscribers. They may not be able to drive it at first, but it won't >>> take long to >>> qualify for races, and in the mean time they can at least test it and >>> discover (I >>> hope, having never driven it) what potential iRacing has. The Solstice >>> was never >>> cut out to be an advert for anything other than scrap metal dealerships! >>> >>> Hopefully there will be big fields in these races though (a combination >>> of >>> enthusiasts and rookies) then I might get dragged out of my Skip Barber >>> for a while. >>> :-) >>> >>> In the mean time initial race reports form the mixed class races are >>> somewhat >>> glowing. >>> >>> http://www.wegame.com/watch/Mixed_Class_Racing/ >>> >> Great vid. But check out the appalling driving of the blue spec racing, >> who side swipes one car and then bumps another. Clearly there are unsafe >> Muppets in iRacing still. >

More iRacing frustrations... The service update today is excellent. They've replaced the Advanced Solstice with the Spec Racer Ford. It handles like an unruly child compared to the Skip Barber (IMO anyway) but it's a *huge* improvement on the Solstice which should make a major change to the Rookie subscriber testing the service out. It shows the sim's potential very well indeed. But today they also add a 24 hours of fun server for the SRF. Great you say! A chance to test it online! Except it's Watkins Glen which few of the lower series run. You can virtually hear the marketing wheels working. Free car, now while enthusiasm levels are high, gouge them for a track most of them don't own. The alternative, putting it on a track everyone owns from top to bottom of iRacing, would have been such a great opportunity to involve everyone and do some community building. Sigh. Today of all days I want to tip my hat to iRacing. They are making changes, slowly, which ought to make it a much better service for all. But so often you can see though the curtain and see the little man (or woman!) pulling the accounting levers. Ultimately it's this feeling that I'm being 'milked' which continues to make me uncomfortable. One the one hand I want to say the SRF and Skip, running races every two hours, but only an hour apart, is enough to make me want to subscribe for a year and get the cheap rate (which is, after all, pretty reasonable *if* you can avoid additional costs). But on the other hand... Mmm... I'm amazed at how easily I'm led down this roller coaster ride of an experience. I really should know better by now! Andrew McP PS They've dropped the fee for monthly subscription from $20 to $19 as well, because apparently that's how a lot of people still choose to pay. Not a bad gesture, I suppose. But still only a gesture considering how much more expensive it is than the discounted 3/6/12 month rates. PPS And for the record, the last user-gathered stats show that over 5000 racers were active in the last week. One way or another the service seems to be growing; though it can be hard to tell that sometimes from the numbers on the tracks.

Andrew MacPherson wrote: > Today of all days I want to tip my hat to iRacing. They are making changes, slowly, > which ought to make it a much better service for all. But so often you can see > though the curtain and see the little man (or woman!) pulling the accounting levers. > Ultimately it's this feeling that I'm being 'milked' which continues to make me > uncomfortable. Don't forget there were some rumblings by those who had looked forward to the Spec racer that it was an advanced Rookie car run at a repeating set of Rookie tracks. I totally agree with you it is a great move to provide an alternative to the Solstice for necomeres to get to feel the real potential of iRacing. Given everyone will have the opportunity to run the SRF next week I think this is for those who wanted the SRF at some of the other tracks. WG has been used for several fun series so I would doubt they have sold that many today. For oval fans the Nationwide car feels much more driveable than the COT which is pretty much as it should be. So Andrew, you could buy the Nationwide car, Watkins Glen and Road Atlanta and get a discount :) Cheers Tony

[email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > Given everyone will have the opportunity to run the SRF next week I > think this is for those who wanted the SRF at some of the other > tracks. You might be right Tony. And for all I know they might put the SRF at a different 24 hours of fun track all week, so it's early to be judging the WG decision. Either way, the SRF is a great addition to the stable... though on a triplehead setup those mirrors seem to fill most of the side monitors. It's like having wings! Of entirely the wrong kind. :-) Mind you, I do worry that I might end up enjoying the SRF more than the Skip now... it's nice to drive a car which really responds off the line. The Skip Barber's Achilles' heel has always been its limp-wristed idea of a fast getaway. Or maybe it's just the way I drive? :-) Anyway, for all its frustrating elements, there are signs that iRacing are listening and making sensible changes. At this rate, by the time John Henry goes broke they might actually have a success on their hands! :-> Andrew McP PS I just realised I made a mistake with the comment about how many people raced last week. It was more like 2.2k, with 3.5k racing at some point in the last 4 weeks. The 5.5k was how many people competed at some point in the last 12 week season.

"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Tony R) wrote: > >> Given everyone will have the opportunity to run the SRF next week I >> think this is for those who wanted the SRF at some of the other >> tracks. > > You might be right Tony. And for all I know they might put the SRF at a > different > 24 hours of fun track all week, so it's early to be judging the WG > decision. > > Either way, the SRF is a great addition to the stable... though on a > triplehead > setup those mirrors seem to fill most of the side monitors. It's like > having wings! > Of entirely the wrong kind. :-) Mind you, I do worry that I might end up > enjoying > the SRF more than the Skip now... it's nice to drive a car which really > responds > off the line. The Skip Barber's Achilles' heel has always been its > limp-wristed > idea of a fast getaway. Or maybe it's just the way I drive? :-) > > Anyway, for all its frustrating elements, there are signs that iRacing are > listening and making sensible changes. At this rate, by the time John > Henry goes > broke they might actually have a success on their hands! :-> > > Andrew McP > > PS I just realised I made a mistake with the comment about how many people > raced > last week. It was more like 2.2k, with 3.5k racing at some point in the > last 4 > weeks. The 5.5k was how many people competed at some point in the last 12 > week > season. >

Perhaps its due to 12 weeks of running the Radical (understeering hyperactive little rat that it is) but I'm having a tough time coming to grips with the Spec Racer. For a rear engined car it surely does want to swap ends under deceleration. Nice enough car but the merest twitch of the wheel and I'm backing into a barrier. A gift horse is still a nice thing :) I'd suspect this would fit tracks like Lime Rock and Summit point nicely Dave

[email hidden] (DavErb) wrote: > For a rear engined car it surely does want to > swap ends under deceleration I've seen people say it's easier to drive than the Skip Barber. I find it's quite the opposite, though this may be because I use a *really* conservative setup in the Skip, and have dialled the brake bias back as far as it will go (55) in the SRF. That helped me a little, but learning to be much more careful with my loud pedal made a bigger difference. You really do have to drive this car with the pedals rather than the wheel! I'm managing to resist buying Watkins Glen so far (after all, it's an A&B class track and I'm never planning to race up there), despite movies like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtj8F0jioQI&fmt=22 making it hard to resist the opportunity for big fields. Next week's official races will be a lot smaller, sadly, but the shorter tracks should -- as you say -- provide some excellent racing. Andrew McP

PlowBoy, wrote: > I hate hunting for the latest > rfactor/mod/track patch combination that works relatively well, and making > them easily to install for you and your 11 friends... In the case of my leagues, we install the mod and tracks we are running that season and then it's done. This season we ran the same mod again, so no hunting or hating. We did install 6 additional tracks that our league manager had one download link to and that took 2 minutes. Still no hating. rFactor works well for interactive and more serious SIM Racers. Well run rFactor leagues have most if not all the benefits of iRacing. However, iRacing does have some value for the part time SIM Racers. > WIth rfactor I would hunt for 3 hours, (give or take) upgrade the mod, > track whatever. and goto bed and hope the next night I would still be > current enough to get in a race... Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. rFactor is much more mature now. rFactor has so many people working on stuff it will be very difficult for iRacing to ever match the options available rFactor. 3 of the 5 top iRacing road racers will be in rFactor races this week. From talking to them you wouldn't think iRacing was the end-all be-all.

PlowBoy wrote:

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> > "Part 2" > > Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A: > bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to?

I prove myself every race I'm in, or at least make an attempt to be a good racer. I have proved myself as a capable racer. > > I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of > course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please. Huh!? Even though I have friends that have tried or have made a go at iRacing, many of them come back to their rFactor leagues because of what's missing at iRacing. iRacing needs changing and there is nothing the individual can do to effect change. Where-as in many rFactor leagues that person has an affective voice. The weight of the internal politics at iRacing and persistence at clinging to the SIM drivers school turns me and many SIM Racers off. It's the same people that alienated the community in '04 and '05 and now they want us to pay their salaries while they really try to figure out what they are doing. It's unattractive and as it settles in with most people and they find themselves helpless to effect any chance to improve their experience, they leave. On their return to their rFactor leagues they say things like "I won't being doing anymore iRacing." "I can't believe it took 5 years to do that." "I couldn't race with my friends." "They don't have the car I want to race." "I don't get to race the car I want to race." "My team can't race together." And 100 more "no you can't's" Where as with rFactor "can I do ....?" The answer is always "yes." By creating such a ridged environment iRacing have drastically limited the people who want to be involved. And the "first impression" they have made is not always good. Even if they do change now, they again have alienated so many people with their arrogance, people won't return. Is that not what > youre saying? No. See above. > You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who > would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being > genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem. I have iRaced. But right from the top, my team didn't have a server to go in an develop setups as a team and that ended our involvement after 30 days. Even though the Soltice is barely enjoyable I tried it for a month. We got to where we could start making setups but there wasn't a facility for us to do our team development. At iRacing there is too much "no" you can't do that. But on the top of the list is how they setup a scenario to break up teams and leagues. And that's why I continue to see people leaving iRacing's maniacal control.

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> > Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race > jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers > are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that > yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars > to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so > I didnt hate it as much...

I don't hate any of my rFactor experience. I move away from things I have hate for. Even just a little. > > that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing > because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought > process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that > is all. I don't hate. Hating is for those who "fear" what they are involved with and can't make the rational decision to separate themselves from it. Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws > and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people > to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I > joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, > without some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. > Dont lie to me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years Tell me something I don't know. Good rFactor leagues have rules that have been honed over years of SIM Racing experience and are usually much more practical then iRacing, that's why so many are returning to their rFactor leagues. Now that iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? "Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot.

David Fisher's Left Testicle wrote: > > > 23-years for me, and I feel the same way you do. I know how not to wreck > and I don't need to pay out a load of money to prove it. This is a common theme of those that have left iRacing.

David Fisher's Left Testicle wrote: > What do I hate about iRacing? I like pretty much everything eccept the > price and fanboys like you. Plowboy like to put words into others mouths in his effort to kill logic.

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> > "PlowBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KQrJl.28029$[email hidden]... >> Typical Testicular, >> >> takes a vid that supports ANYTHING except what you hate about iRacing, >> what you got and what you are using for evidence was a bunch of "Join >> the race, it is a game, it don't count, pass and wreck or whatever it >> is just a game mentality bullshit.." called 13th week, where wrecks >> and ratings don't count, and everyone knows it. Funny still is, that >> you keep telling all of us you want iRacing to let everyone do this >> from signup onward! Plus you want it for free, right? Kewl beans. >>

Niles, Everything you set in place makes 12 assumptions that you cant assume, here are some see how many you can think of... 1. that every person that joins iracing, joins a race, has the same damn "racing values' that you have. 2. that they have even sim raced before signup 3. that they can handle ANY car you give them 4 giva shit less how others get along in a race (win wreck wahtever mentality) I think you see the drift. B. you say you couldnt get on a test server with up to 45 of your iRacing buddies (like the rest of us have been doing) to develope setups? excuse me, doesnt seem to be a problem for the rest of us. Oh wait you want some FREE, self controlled server that you can keep others out of, hmmm seems stupid to me, you arent hurting anyone and nobody is hurting while you develope setups, as many of us do using Ventrillo, Teamspeak and what not... C wasnt but 3 years ago rfactor (when I actually paid for the damn thing) shipped with 4 cars total. After 6 months there was a lot of SHIT and about 9 cars that were worth the download. Again all nicely donated, what if in order for you to get even one mod, it cost 5 bucks, where would you be? IT could be that way soon when those programmers get laid off, need money and spend hours on the PC, working on this stuff... D Individuals make change? Excuse me, but half about what you dont, I like. so if they fix it for me, you dont, if they fix it for you I dislaike (theroetically) so how do they do this in real life? they listed to the whining and suggestions onthe boards, and then the sometimes even have a poll. Good leaders in ANY organization usually prove to be the ones to figure out what shit really matters, and matter to the majority. It aint no different at your rFactor league, just like I pointed out in last post, if I come on and demand everyone run fixed setups (because maybe i sux at making setups) the rest of you want open setups, HOW GODDAM much individually did I affect change for christ's sake? You are telling me your club of raceing buddies will say OK we do it his way for now on? Give me a break dude E. Rigid envirement? so you enjoy going to any league race where "anything goes" ??? I like rigid I guess, I know what to expect, everytime... Period. I mean it, I hate clusterfucks where they say "this week Daytona, fixed sets, start at 9, be there by 8:50... then at 910 because joe blow showed up at 9, and cant join... we still aint started, they decided to run open sets (because 2 guys have worked all week on them) and well I think you get the pic. Basically it is easier to join knowing what to expect (schedules clearly viewable for 12 week sessions are ready 1 week before the 12 weeks begin.) I dont see your point I guess. Lastly, you kept pointing out that I bothered to give facts, and you answer with crappy "tell me something I dont know", Ok damnit admit that you hadnt thought about any of those issues and how those things have to be handled, did you. I didnt say at any point that you might not know this shit, I did see that you didnt care or think about the solutions to the problems anyone who tries to run a business of any form has to figure out. All you want is some form of anarchy, free and ran by whoever gets there 1st I guess? "Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UdiKl.489$[email hidden]...

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> PlowBoy wrote: >> >> "Part 2" > > >> >> Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A: >> bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to? > > I prove myself every race I'm in, or at least make an attempt to be a good > racer. I have proved myself as a capable racer. > >> >> I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of >> course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please. > > Huh!? Even though I have friends that have tried or have made a go at > iRacing, many of them come back to their rFactor leagues because of what's > missing at iRacing. iRacing needs changing and there is nothing the > individual can do to effect change. Where-as in many rFactor leagues that > person has an affective voice. > > The weight of the internal politics at iRacing and persistence at clinging > to the SIM drivers school turns me and many SIM Racers off. It's the same > people that alienated the community in '04 and '05 and now they want us to > pay their salaries while they really try to figure out what they are > doing. It's unattractive and as it settles in with most people and they > find themselves helpless to effect any chance to improve their experience, > they leave. On their return to their rFactor leagues they say things like > "I won't being doing anymore iRacing." "I can't believe it took 5 years to > do that." "I couldn't race with my friends." "They don't have the car I > want to race." "I don't get to race the car I want to race." "My team > can't race together." And 100 more "no you can't's" Where as with rFactor > "can I do ....?" The answer is always "yes." > > By creating such a ridged environment iRacing have drastically limited the > people who want to be involved. And the "first impression" they have made > is not always good. Even if they do change now, they again have alienated > so many people with their arrogance, people won't return. > > Is that not what >> youre saying? > > No. See above. > >> You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who >> would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being >> genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem. > > I have iRaced. But right from the top, my team didn't have a server to go > in an develop setups as a team and that ended our involvement after 30 > days. Even though the Soltice is barely enjoyable I tried it for a month. > We got to where we could start making setups but there wasn't a facility > for us to do our team development. At iRacing there is too much "no" you > can't do that. But on the top of the list is how they setup a scenario to > break up teams and leagues. And that's why I continue to see people > leaving iRacing's maniacal control. > >> >> Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race >> jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers >> are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that >> yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars >> to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so >> I didnt hate it as much... > > I don't hate any of my rFactor experience. I move away from things I have > hate for. Even just a little. > > >> >> that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing >> because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought >> process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that >> is all. > > I don't hate. Hating is for those who "fear" what they are involved with > and can't make the rational decision to separate themselves from it. > > > Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws >> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people >> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I >> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, without >> some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont lie to >> me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years > > Tell me something I don't know. > > Good rFactor leagues have rules that have been honed over years of SIM > Racing experience and are usually much more practical then iRacing, that's > why so many are returning to their rFactor leagues. > > Now that iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? > > "Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing > enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot.

Plowboy, Your arguement doesn't seem compelling and I'm having a hard time understanding you sometime. PlowBoy, wrote: > Niles, > > Everything you set in place makes 12 assumptions that you cant assume, here > are some see how many you can think of... > 1. that every person that joins iracing, joins a race, has the same damn > "racing values' that you have. My racing values are high. Is it that iRacing's racers don't have high values? > 2. that they have even sim raced before signup > 3. that they can handle ANY car you give them > 4 giva shit less how others get along in a race (win wreck wahtever > mentality) that's too bad. We don't have to deal with that in our leagues as we have high quality high value racers. > > I think you see the drift. That's too bad as I was thinking iRacing was going to be higher quality. > > B. you say you couldnt get on a test server with up to 45 of your iRacing > buddies (like the rest of us have been doing) to develope setups? No that's not what I said. But it's a good try at trying to put words in my mouth. excuse > me, doesnt seem to be a problem for the rest of us. Oh wait you want some > FREE, self controlled server that you can keep others out of, hmmm seems > stupid to me, you arent hurting anyone and nobody is hurting while you > develope setups, as many of us do using Ventrillo, Teamspeak and what not... I have my own servers and we use our leagues Team Speak when we're doing setup development. It's another good try at putting words in my mouth though.

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> > C wasnt but 3 years ago rfactor (when I actually paid for the damn thing) > shipped with 4 cars total. After 6 months there was a lot of SHIT and about > 9 cars that were worth the download. Again all nicely donated, what if in > order for you to get even one mod, it cost 5 bucks, where would you be? IT > could be that way soon when those programmers get laid off, need money and > spend hours on the PC, working on this stuff...

iRacing's fees have never been an issue for me. I think developers should get paid for their work. If iRacing would drop their driving school format I'd buy everything they have in "1 fell swoop."

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> > D Individuals make change? Excuse me, but half about what you dont, I like. > so if they fix it for me, you dont, if they fix it for you I dislaike > (theroetically) so how do they do this in real life? they listed to the > whining and suggestions onthe boards, and then the sometimes even have a > poll. Good leaders in ANY organization usually prove to be the ones to > figure out what shit really matters, and matter to the majority.

Here's a quote from Andrew: "Andrew McP PS I just realised I made a mistake with the comment about how many people raced last week. It was more like 2.2k, with 3.5k racing at some point in the last 4 weeks. The 5.5k was how many people competed at some point in the last 12 week season." You can see that iRacing has a very high turnover and their stable monthly membership is too small to be profitable. Obviously the amount of people, like you, that like it ain't enough. They will need to make changes to survive. There is just not enough support to make it viable. Things will have to change. There is not enough membership to make their competition system work correctly and there is doubts now whether the pro division will ever happen. Also with many top drivers scaling back their participation as they have return to other SIM I can't see how iRacing can survive without making substantial changes. Work the numbers and see if you can project profitability. It aint no > different at your rFactor league, just like I pointed out in last post, if I > come on and demand everyone run fixed setups (because maybe i sux at making > setups) the rest of you want open setups, HOW GODDAM much individually did I > affect change for christ's sake? You are telling me your club of raceing > buddies will say OK we do it his way for now on? Give me a break dude Huh? Does anyone understand what he just said? I need an interpreter.

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> > E. Rigid envirement? so you enjoy going to any league race where "anything > goes" ??? I like rigid I guess, I know what to expect, everytime... > Period. > > I mean it, I hate clusterfucks where they say "this week Daytona, fixed > sets, start at 9, be there by 8:50... then at 910 because joe blow showed > up at 9, and cant join... we still aint started, they decided to run open > sets (because 2 guys have worked all week on them) and well I think you get > the pic. Basically it is easier to join knowing what to expect (schedules > clearly viewable for 12 week sessions are ready 1 week before the 12 weeks > begin.) I dont see your point I guess.

Huh? Do actually think that iRacing is the only league where people put together a predictable schedule? You don't get around much do you?

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> > Lastly, > > you kept pointing out that I bothered to give facts, and you answer with > crappy "tell me something I dont know", Ok damnit admit that you hadnt > thought about any of those issues and how those things have to be handled, > did you.

You mean this: >> Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws >>> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people >>> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I >>> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, without >>> some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont lie to >>> me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years >> Tell me something I don't know. When I said "tell me something I don't know" I meant all my leagues have been organized and don't suffer from the issues you are sighting here. The people I race with have got it figured out and we don't have to deal with that kind of member. Apparently iRacing must be full of under-skilled drivers that crash all the time. We have tossed a couple idiots over the last year and I hear they ended up at iRacing. So maybe I'm not thinking right about iRacing. iRacing seems to have absorbed the the fringe quality racers and the rFactor leagues have gotten better as the idiots have moved to iRacing. How about that? :)"Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot.

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> > > "Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UdiKl.489$[email hidden]... >> PlowBoy wrote: >>> "Part 2" >> >>> Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A: >>> bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to? >> I prove myself every race I'm in, or at least make an attempt to be a good >> racer. I have proved myself as a capable racer. >> >>> I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of >>> course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please. >> Huh!? Even though I have friends that have tried or have made a go at >> iRacing, many of them come back to their rFactor leagues because of what's >> missing at iRacing. iRacing needs changing and there is nothing the >> individual can do to effect change. Where-as in many rFactor leagues that >> person has an affective voice. >> >> The weight of the internal politics at iRacing and persistence at clinging >> to the SIM drivers school turns me and many SIM Racers off. It's the same >> people that alienated the community in '04 and '05 and now they want us to >> pay their salaries while they really try to figure out what they are >> doing. It's unattractive and as it settles in with most people and they >> find themselves helpless to effect any chance to improve their experience, >> they leave. On their return to their rFactor leagues they say things like >> "I won't being doing anymore iRacing." "I can't believe it took 5 years to >> do that." "I couldn't race with my friends." "They don't have the car I >> want to race." "I don't get to race the car I want to race." "My team >> can't race together." And 100 more "no you can't's" Where as with rFactor >> "can I do ....?" The answer is always "yes." >> >> By creating such a ridged environment iRacing have drastically limited the >> people who want to be involved. And the "first impression" they have made >> is not always good. Even if they do change now, they again have alienated >> so many people with their arrogance, people won't return. >> >> Is that not what >>> youre saying? >> No. See above. >> >>> You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who >>> would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being >>> genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem. >> I have iRaced. But right from the top, my team didn't have a server to go >> in an develop setups as a team and that ended our involvement after 30 >> days. Even though the Soltice is barely enjoyable I tried it for a month. >> We got to where we could start making setups but there wasn't a facility >> for us to do our team development. At iRacing there is too much "no" you >> can't do that. But on the top of the list is how they setup a scenario to >> break up teams and leagues. And that's why I continue to see people >> leaving iRacing's maniacal control. >> >>> Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race >>> jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers >>> are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that >>> yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars >>> to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so >>> I didnt hate it as much... >> I don't hate any of my rFactor experience. I move away from things I have >> hate for. Even just a little. >> >> >>> that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing >>> because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought >>> process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that >>> is all. >> I don't hate. Hating is for those who "fear" what they are involved with >> and can't make the rational decision to separate themselves from it. >> >> >> Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws >>> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people >>> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I >>> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, without >>> some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont lie to >>> me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years >> Tell me something I don't know. >> >> Good rFactor leagues have rules that have been honed over years of SIM >> Racing experience and are usually much more practical then iRacing, that's >> why so many are returning to their rFactor leagues. >> >> Now that iRacing's here, I don't know how to race? >> >> "Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing >> enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot. > >