GPL, N4 with Kyro 2?

Anyone out there using a Kyro 2 for GPL or Nascar 4? I'm getting a new (to me) P3-600 system and need to pick out a decent lower-end video card. V5 is a possibility, but the fact it is no longer supported with upgraded drivers will soon be a problem. Geforce2 MXs are beaten pretty handily on most things by a Kyro 2, which is generally beaten by faster Geforce2s. So, anyway. Anyone using the Kyro 2? -Tim

In article <cuqH6.73$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > > > Anyone out there using a Kyro 2 for GPL or Nascar 4? Er, sorry. Ahead of myself. I mean, is anybody using the Kyro 1? I know the performance of the two has significant differences, but I'd like to hear. Of course, on the other hand, if anybody happens to have a Kyro 2 in hand for review or whatnot, I've seen results for it running Nascar Heat (not bad) and was wondering if anybody had fired up GPL or N4. I know, I know, wishful thinking that someone here has a review version and is willing to share observations, but still... -Tim

People should start requesting sim-racing/flight-sim benchmarks from hardware reviewers. I sent this letter off to [email hidden] today: Hi, when you review this card I'd like a couple things included: 1) FSAA is important to sim-racers and flight-sim fans, and has made the voodoo5 still desirable even with its lack of support. The K2's excellent FSAA perf (relative to geforce-mx) makes this a very interesting alternative. I'd like to see Nascar4/Grand Prix Legends/flight-sim benchmarks included in your review. Absolute framerate numbers are not so important as image quality, absence of glitches, and consistent framerates. For example, GPL is framerate locked at 36fps, but its very important to avoid dips below 36. So the benchmark for GPL would simply ask can the K2 run 800x600 or 1024x768 with 2x or 4x FSAA at 36fps at the back of a full-field race start in D3D-mode without anomalies. 2) Tim Sweeney's dismissal of the K2 for lacking certain DX features should be addressed. What features is it lacking, and do they matter for current games and games on the near horizon? rms [email hidden]

Sharkeys Preview states : "KYRO II offers no T&L support or any semblance of support for the features introduced by DirectX 8. We have found hardwired T&L to be a more or less unremarkable feature, but the lack of DirectX support (which can be found in ATI's affordable 32MB RADEON) raises our concerns about the shelf life of such a product." ---------Sharkeys Extreme No T&L !........ hmmmmmmm.......

Even without T&L it did show very good numbers and even beat a Gforce2 Ultra on one test. For the money, the benchmarks were outstanding and tile based rendering is what everyone will go to eventually and the the Kyro's will be 50 steps ahead. The Kyro II may not be a Gforce2 ultra but it never was meant to be, it's supposed to compete with other $100 cards and in that category it annihilates all competitors. Vintook "JJ Sricklin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9cmr8c$9q$[email hidden]... > Sharkeys Preview states : > > > "KYRO II offers no T&L support or any semblance of support for thefeatures > introduced by DirectX 8. We have found hardwired T&L to be a more or less > unremarkable feature, but the lack of DirectX support (which can be foundin

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> ATI's affordable 32MB RADEON) raises our concerns about the shelf life of > such a product." > > ---------Sharkeys Extreme > > No T&L !........ hmmmmmmm....... > > > > >

In article <9cmm59$6944$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >2) Tim Sweeney's dismissal of the K2 for lacking certain DX features should >be addressed. What features is it lacking, and do they matter for current >games and games on the near horizon? Correct me if I'm wrong, but those DX8 features will be included for _nothing_ but the GeForce3, and even that has the bare minimum. I think one can safely igore those features until a new video card a year or so from now. -Tim

Heres what Tim Sweeny from Epic (unreal) said about the Kyro2 "It's a competent TNT2 class chip, and the sorting and alpha-testing artifacts of past generations seem to have been sorted out successfully. But, like every generation of PowerVR hardware before it, it's a day late and a dollar short. It lacks support for basic DirectX7 (yes, 7!) features like cube maps. The kyro developers are cool guys, so it pains me to say that this is just not a viable piece of hardware in the market it's trying to compete in."

yeah, name a title out now that takes advantage of the new dx8 items. dave henrie(this is kinda reminecencent<sp?> of folks buying TNT2 vidcards to do Hardware Transform & Lighting...and now that we are finally seeing lots of titles that take advantage of that feature...the TNT2 is too slow to be of any advantage.) dave henrie "The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jkFH6.82$[email hidden]... > In article <9cmm59$6944$[email hidden]>,[email hidden] > says... > > >2) Tim Sweeney's dismissal of the K2 for lacking certain DX featuresshould > >be addressed. What features is it lacking, and do they matter forcurrent > >games and games on the near horizon? > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but those DX8 features will be included for > _nothing_ but the GeForce3, and even that has the bare minimum. I thinkone > can safely igore those features until a new video card a year or so fromnow. > > > -Tim >

I do recall seeing some screenshots of Quake3 who's graphics are very good and I could not tell one single difference between a Gforce2 and the Kyro2. There are some features in directx which are not used by anyone, should the cards gear themselves to support stuff that is never used or used by only one game and who's absence would not even be easily seen? I'm all for eye candy but if the Kyro2 produces 99% of directx on your screen and outperformes a Gforce2 and all for around $100, well then, I'm all for it since it will force the big boys to lower their over inflated prices ($500 for a GF3? Puhleeze). Vintook "FN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Heres what Tim Sweeny from Epic (unreal) said about > the Kyro2 > > "It's a competent TNT2 class chip, and the sorting and alpha-testing > artifacts of past generations seem to have been sorted out > successfully. But, like every generation of PowerVR hardware before > it, it's a day late and a dollar short. It lacks support for basic > DirectX7 (yes, 7!) features like cube maps. The kyro developers are > cool guys, so it pains me to say that this is just not a viable piece > of hardware in the market it's trying to compete in." > > > >

They also said that T&L would revolutionize the community since the CPU wouldn't have to work as hard. I've really only seen a gain of about 10fps with the T&L enabled in N4 and if you're getting 60fps without it then who really cares? DirectX has always been way ahead of hardware and hardware has always been way ahead of games so: DirectX feature added - 6 months later the hardware will take advantage Hardware comes out - 4 months later a game comes out that has the features Gamer - waits a year after directx version comes out to actually be able to use it and then the they have to spend $500 for the hardware! I don't know about you but if a card comes out that is lacking a couple features and only costs $80-100 the day it hits the shelves and it outperforms the $250 card that sits on the shelf next to it then which one should I buy? I'm willing to give up a piece of eye candy to save $150. Vintook "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:42IH6.91788$[email hidden]... > yeah, name a title out now that takes advantage of the new dx8 items. > dave henrie(this is kinda reminecencent<sp?> of folks buying TNT2 vidcards > to do Hardware Transform & Lighting...and now that we are finally seeing > lots of titles that take advantage of that feature...the TNT2 is too slowto

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> be of any advantage.) > dave henrie > "The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:jkFH6.82$[email hidden]... > > In article <9cmm59$6944$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] > > says... > > > > >2) Tim Sweeney's dismissal of the K2 for lacking certain DX features > should > > >be addressed. What features is it lacking, and do they matter for > current > > >games and games on the near horizon? > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but those DX8 features will be included for > > _nothing_ but the GeForce3, and even that has the bare minimum. I think > one > > can safely igore those features until a new video card a year or so from > now. > > > > > > -Tim > > > >

[email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) wrote: > Anyone out there using a Kyro 2 for GPL or Nascar 4? Don't know anyone who is... > I'm getting a new (to me) P3-600 system and need to pick out a >decent lower-end video card. V5 is a possibility, but the fact it is no >longer supported with upgraded drivers will soon be a problem. > > Geforce2 MXs are beaten pretty handily on most things by a Kyro >2, which is generally beaten by faster Geforce2s. The word from folks who run both GPL and N4 is that the V5 is the best pick if GPL is your main thing, but that if you really want to run N4 well, the GeForce is the way to go. GeForce prices have just come down with the release of their 3rd generation card. Chris Noto, see Noto at tee dee ess dot net

"Roger Squires" <[email hidden]> wrote: > People should start requesting sim-racing/flight-sim benchmarks from > hardware reviewers. Flight sims could perhaps be interesting benchmarks, but if so it would be from more of a compatibility standpoint rather than performance. Even on the fastest PC you could get your hands on today, overclocked to the moon and back, would still be vastly more CPU limited than video card limited with just about any current videocard. These things are far better used as CPU benchmarks than video card benchmarks! :-) > 2) Tim Sweeney's dismissal of the K2 for lacking certain DX featuresshould > be addressed. What features is it lacking, and do they matter for current > games and games on the near horizon? Kyro II lacks all but ONE of the DXTC/S3TC compression modes, static T&L and cube environment mapping out of the major DX7 features. There could be some other minor stuff too that concerns how things are handled "under the hood", but its nothing that has any impact on how things look. Out of these three, cube environment maps are the only thing that really matters. The missing DXTC modes can be transparently forced to use the supported DXT1 scheme in the drivers, and until there are titles using DX8 vertex shaders out there on the market, you won't miss the DX7 T&L too much if you have a beefy CPU. Nvidia's MX is so bandwidth limited it really can't make much use of its T&L unit in today's software. Kyro II will serve anyone on a budget quite well, I'm sure. That it has COMPLETELY transparent FSAA certainly doesn't hurt either! FSAA in Diablo 2, yumm! Can any other card do that? Bye! /HB.