Montoya

Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His attitude is childish. This was the first race he even qualified higher than R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place position was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just Schumacher, and then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to get by. "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by me, then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael so you've got to let me by.'" BMW Motorsport director Gerhard Berger, who has been very impressed by the Williams driver so far this season, allowed his disappointment to show. "We all know well that Montoya doesn't really make room (for others). You only come out the winner from something like that if overall you remain in the lead," he said.

David G Fisher wrote: > > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His > attitude is childish. Sorry, I don't see it. > This was the first race he even qualified higher than > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place position > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just Schumacher, and > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to get by. As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of a stretch.... > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by me, then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael > so you've got to let me by.'" Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight. I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly afer a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire performance loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent problem and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see anything wrong with his approach. Greg ============ Anti-Spam measures have been taken! Remove duplicate letters to reply.

On Sun, 13 May 2001 19:42:27 -0700, Greg Campbell <[email hidden]> wrote: >As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to >countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who >had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS >had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had >to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of >a stretch....Hmmm, so if MS had taken a normal line, Juan would still have gone deep into the corner? Methinks not. MS pushed him into making that mistake. He should have backed himself to take MS again when his tyres 'came back'. As it turned out, his pace increased a few laps later when the Michelins started working again. He could have been in second or third and still a contender for a win. It was a very short-sighted move in my opinion. >Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his >position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari >engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight.Why should he? He might be in line to replace Barrichelo in a year or 2. He probably won't want to piss of his potential bosses. Also, the Sauber's are notorious for getting out of any Ferrari coming through. >I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly afer >a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I >believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire performance >loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent problem >and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see >anything wrong with his approach.True, that was definately the plan, and it was a good one. However, he had lost the corner. The overhead (helicopter) cam clearly should MS had put enough of the car in front to claim the corner. MS braked very late into the bend and even if JM had brake a little later than normal, MS was probably still going to pass him. By going deep into the brake zone, he was really pushing things too far. Just my opinion. For the record, I am a long-time MS fan and enjoyed JPM in the few CART races I saw him in. I think he is the best thing to hit F1 in a long time and I want to see him winning races and competing hard and fair for championships. I was saddened by his problems this year (notably Verstappen at Brazil), but I still see a brilliant rookie year ahead in F1. Regards all, Ian

Quoted text (7 lines)

> >Greg > >============ > >Anti-Spam measures have been taken! >Remove duplicate letters to reply.

I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. JP's tires were shot and he was holding everyone up. MS had a go at him round the outside and in defence JP breaked too late couldn't get round and went wide. If he'd let MS past he'd have been second and not seventh. Simple. He'll learn, F1 is not so forgiving. AND this is off topic. Jay "Greg Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> David G Fisher wrote: > > > > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His > > attitude is childish. > > Sorry, I don't see it. > > > This was the first race he even qualified higher than > > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place

position > > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just Schumacher,and > > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to getby.

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to > countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who > had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS > had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had > to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of > a stretch.... > > > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by me,

then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > so you've got to let me by.'" > > Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his > position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari > engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight. > > I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly afer > a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I > believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire performance > loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent problem > and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see > anything wrong with his approach. > > Greg > > ============ > > Anti-Spam measures have been taken! > Remove duplicate letters to reply. >

"Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > ><SNIP> > >Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his > >position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari > >engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight. > Why should he? He might be in line to replace Barrichelo in a year or > 2. He probably won't want to piss of his potential bosses. Also, the > Sauber's are notorious for getting out of any Ferrari coming through. <SNIP> Why should he?!?!!? Because he's racing!!! My God, if these guys don't race, what are teams paying them for? To drive around selling donuts? --- Joeri J. Cox European Racing League GM - http://www.europeanracingleague.com 502 Racing co-founder - http://www.502racing.com

In article <z5LL6.56587$[email hidden]>, "Joeri Cox" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (15 lines)

>> ><SNIP> > >> >Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his >> >position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari >> >engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight. >> Why should he? He might be in line to replace Barrichelo in a year or >> 2. He probably won't want to piss of his potential bosses. Also, the >> Sauber's are notorious for getting out of any Ferrari coming through. > ><SNIP> > >Why should he?!?!!? Because he's racing!!! My God, if these guys don't race, >what are teams paying them for? To drive around selling donuts? >---

Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible. To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a year is absurd... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > >Why should he?!?!!? Because he's racing!!! My God, if these guys don't race, > >what are teams paying them for? To drive around selling donuts? > >--- > > Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible. > To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a > year is absurd...

Geeezz. It all sounds so... so... EUROPEAN! :-) -- Fester

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: <snip> >Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible. >To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a >year is absurd... > >Eldred Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always has and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the biggest soap opera on wheels with out it! :-) Leo

On Tue, 15 May 2001 03:36:03 GMT, [email hidden] (Leo Greco) wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: ><snip> >>Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as possible. >>To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them in a >>year is absurd... >> >>Eldred > >Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always has >and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the biggest >soap opera on wheels with out it! :-) > >Leo

Hi Eldred, Calm down. I was just pointing out another variable in the equation. Who knows what Ferarri put into the contract when they license their engines (Sauber and Prost). Besides, Peter Sauber and Alain Prost are probably have much more close to Ferrari than say BAR or Maclaren. Sometimes these things count for something when their car is being lapped. As for fighting for position, obviously they can't just throw away points and let cars through. As for Raikkonin moving to Ferarri, I had my tongue firmly in cheek. However I do believe that Raikkonin probably has had an informal chat with Ferarri(and the other top teams), and wouldn't want to do anything now that impacts on his future earnings. So I expect him to race hard, but fair, and not make any stupid moves. That's what happened on Sunday. Unfortunately, the final motivator is *money*. Michael basically said that at the extended press conference. It brought an ugly side of F1 into sharp focus and I think some of the conspiracies theories will be rearing their heads again. If you haven't seen the interviews & answers to public questions goto www.alphaf1.com and follow the articles of the press conference. Regards, Ian That's my view anyway.

Dont you think all "big race professional leagues" are politics & money? "Leo Greco" wrote: | Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics alwayshas | and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be thebiggest | soap opera on wheels with out it! :-) | Leo

If as you say his tires were shot, and he was holding "everyone" up, and he was in the frame of mind to let someone pass rather than hold them up as you suggest, wouldn't he let "everyone" pass? That would leave him in sixth or seventh so there really wasn't a net difference. However his chance of letting just MS pass were somewhere near slim and none. "Naim Guru" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:I%KL6.1537$[email hidden]... > I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. JP's tires were shot and he > was holding everyone up. MS had a go at him round the outside and indefence

Quoted text (15 lines)

> JP breaked too late couldn't get round and went wide. > > If he'd let MS past he'd have been second and not seventh. Simple. He'll > learn, F1 is not so forgiving. > > AND this is off topic. > > Jay > > > "Greg Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races.

His

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > > attitude is childish. > > > > Sorry, I don't see it. > > > > > This was the first race he even qualified higher than > > > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place > position > > > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just

Schumacher, > and > > > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried toget

Quoted text (10 lines)

> by. > > > > As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to > > countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who > > had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS > > had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM had > > to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bit of > > a stretch.... > > > > > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by

me,

Quoted text (24 lines)

> then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael > > > so you've got to let me by.'" > > > > Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his > > position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari > > engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight. > > > > I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly afer > > a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I > > believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tire performance > > loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanent problem > > and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see > > anything wrong with his approach. > > > > Greg > > > > ============ > > > > Anti-Spam measures have been taken! > > Remove duplicate letters to reply. > > > > >

He was fighting to stay in front, that's what you do, but he was holding everyone up, that'd caught up to him, I think that's obvious. Frame of mind? The idea is to stay on the track, he couldn't make the corner. He didn't make the corner! Wouldn't it be better to lose 1 place at a time over 5 or so laps rather than 6 in one go! Not to mention saving yourself from a trip across the gravel. That's not a "net" difference. I don't have anything against JP just think he could have played it a bit cooler. Jay "Mike White" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6x3M6.4277$[email hidden]... > If as you say his tires were shot, and he was holding "everyone" up, andhe > was in the frame of mind to let someone pass rather than hold them up asyou > suggest, wouldn't he let "everyone" pass? > > That would leave him in sixth or seventh so there really wasn't a net > difference. However his chance of letting just MS pass were somewherenear > slim and none. > > > "Naim Guru" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:I%KL6.1537$[email hidden]... > > I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. JP's tires were shot andhe

Quoted text (36 lines)

> > was holding everyone up. MS had a go at him round the outside and in > defence > > JP breaked too late couldn't get round and went wide. > > > > If he'd let MS past he'd have been second and not seventh. Simple. He'll > > learn, F1 is not so forgiving. > > > > AND this is off topic. > > > > Jay > > > > > > "Greg Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > > > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. > His > > > > attitude is childish. > > > > > > Sorry, I don't see it. > > > > > > > This was the first race he even qualified higher than > > > > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place > > position > > > > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just > Schumacher, > > and > > > > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to > get > > by. > > > > > > As I see it, Juan went in too hot and lost the rear. He had to > > > countersteer to save it and wound up squarely in front of Schumi (who > > > had taken an outside line). Not to blame him in any way, but if if MS > > > had taken a 'normal' line, he would have easily gotten past since JM

had > > > to pedal out of the gravel. Calling it a deliberate block is a bitof

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > > a stretch.... > > > > > > > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by > me, > > then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael > > > > so you've got to let me by.'" > > > > > > Juan has every right (and sporting obligation) to fight for his > > > position. I wish KR (who just happens to be running the ex-Ferari > > > engine - wink, wink) had put up a bit of a fight. > > > > > > I've heard from several sources that the Michelin tires fade badly

afer > > > a few laps, slide around for a while, then come back to full power. I > > > believe that Juan was trying to ride out the temporary tireperformance > > > loss without losing his lead. It's not as if he had a permanentproblem

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > > and was holding up half the field out of spite. FWIW, I don't see > > > anything wrong with his approach. > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > ============ > > > > > > Anti-Spam measures have been taken! > > > Remove duplicate letters to reply. > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Ian <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (28 lines)

>On Tue, 15 May 2001 03:36:03 GMT, [email hidden] (Leo Greco) >wrote: > >>[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >><snip> >>>Really! The object of racing is to finish ahead of as many cars as >possible. >>>To let someone through on the chance that you *might* be working for them >in a >>>year is absurd... >>> >>>Eldred >> >>Don't forget that this is F1 we're talking about here. Politics always has >>and always will be a major part of F1. Afterall, it wouldn't be the biggest > >>soap opera on wheels with out it! :-) >> >>Leo >Hi Eldred, > >Calm down. I was just pointing out another variable in the equation. >Who knows what Ferarri put into the contract when they license their >engines (Sauber and Prost). Besides, Peter Sauber and Alain Prost are >probably have much more close to Ferrari than say BAR or Maclaren. >Sometimes these things count for something when their car is being >lapped. As for fighting for position, obviously they can't just throw >away points and let cars through.

Calm down? I didn't realize I was excited... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote in message <[email hidden]>... > >Calm down? I didn't realize I was excited... > >Eldred That's the problem with the Red Mist....you don't realise you're excited until too late!! Ben

In article <[email hidden]>, "Ben Coleman" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>EldredP wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >> >>Calm down? I didn't realize I was excited... >> >>Eldred > >That's the problem with the Red Mist....you don't realise you're excited >until too late!! > >Ben

Oh, phooey to you...<G> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Quoted text (8 lines)

>>Calm down? I didn't realize I was e***d... >>Eldred >That's the problem with the Red Mist....you don't realise you're e***d >until too late!! >Ben

Oh, phooey to you...<G> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.