WSC- Myth or Reality ?

Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the feeling this game is too good to be true. Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! -- ICQ# 104825454

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]...

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> Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years > ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the > feeling this game is too good to be true. > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind !

I can't answer your question, but there was a demo at last years E3.

"redTed" <[email hidden]> writes: > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. Actually, they have been silent for a very long time, working with the game. The screenshots just released are released today from Empire. > We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years > ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the > feeling this game is too good to be true. Patience will tell, rudeness wont. > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! There was a preview at E3 last year. Some posters here and at the High Gear forum actually tried it. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

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> > Patience will tell, rudeness wont. > > > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > There was a preview at E3 last year. Some posters here and at the High > Gear forum actually tried it.

I don't think I was being especially rude. So, there was a playable preview at LAST year's E3, but nothing this year ? That doesn't strike anyone as being slightly odd ?

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9e9dhk$1p3ru$[email hidden]...

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> > > > > Patience will tell, rudeness wont. > > > > > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > > > There was a preview at E3 last year. Some posters here and at the High > > Gear forum actually tried it. > > I don't think I was being especially rude. > So, there was a playable preview at LAST year's E3, but nothing this year

? > That doesn't strike anyone as being slightly odd ? It's been said that Empire didn't want to foot the cost at E3 just for one game. Don't know if that's true or not but sounds like a good reason to me.

People here (although not me) have actually played it. Tom Pabst played it at E3 last year if I remember correctly. I don't think they'd produce all those screenshots in 3d studio or something just for a laugh. They clearly are working on a real game, and judging by the quality of the screenshots, when they do finish, someone will definitely want to publish it (no reason to imagine that wouldn't be Empire). It's *not* time for them to put up or shut up, it's time for them to carry on working on the game until it's finished. They can't release it until it's done. I think we've all had enough of publishers throwing out unfinished games. Papy took 2 years on GPL with a much bigger team, so if it takes another year or more for WSC then that's fair enough. Stick GPL on, and start getting impatient about WSC the middle of next year. :) "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]...

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> Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years > ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the > feeling this game is too good to be true. > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > -- > ICQ# 104825454 > >

"redTed" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > > > Patience will tell, rudeness wont. > > > > > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > > > There was a preview at E3 last year. Some posters here and at the High > > Gear forum actually tried it. > > I don't think I was being especially rude.

Not especially, but to tell someone who works their ass off to put up or shut up when they haven't said anything for a good while, is a bit on the edge. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

>"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. Well I guess with your attitude they should "shut up" indeed. >Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Yes. >Just a brief glimpse, maybe ? Yes. > Lets see a rolling preview at least They exist. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Especially considering that we are not paying anything for them working on the program. If they release the game .. GREAT for us.. if they do not, we do not lose anything. So yes.. I think it was being kind of rude "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "redTed" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > Patience will tell, rudeness wont. > > > > > > > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > > > > > There was a preview at E3 last year. Some posters here and at the High > > > Gear forum actually tried it. > > > > I don't think I was being especially rude. > > Not especially, but to tell someone who works their ass off to put up > or shut up when they haven't said anything for a good while, is a bit > on the edge. > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote on 20 May 2001: >People here (although not me) have actually played it. Tom Pabst >played it at E3 last year if I remember correctly. That's second-hand info, though. From a good source, granted, but it's still no substitute. <snip> >It's *not* time for them to put up or shut up, it's time for them to >carry on working on the game until it's finished. They can't >release it until it's done. I think we've all had enough of >publishers throwing out unfinished games.<snip> Agreed up to a point. But remember Daikatana - years of delay, years of "it'll be done when it's done", years of "it has to be perfect"... and it was a huge disappointment[1]. GP3 too, to some extent. To be honest, I do think it would be sensible to "do a GPL" and release a demo early, even if it's just one (unfinished) car at one (unfinished) track. It was that Glen demo that made me wait for GPL happily - without it, I think I miught have got rather frustrated. I don't think releasing nothing more than pictures until the game is almost released is very sensible. [1] At least, according to those who know - FPS games are not my forte. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +282.87) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

This seems very harsh to me. It seems to me the internet is about the spread of knowledge and information. So it strikes me as odd that when we get the chance to see some more information on a game some of us interested in we complain about it. Its almost as if you have paid for the game already. There have been posts in here about the amount of hype over WSC, where is this hype, its certainly not coming from Empire, and if the WestBros wanted to hype the product as much as some people think we would have seen an all singing all dancing web site by now, prasing the wonders of the game. The fact that we have seen a handful of shots since last ECTS dosnt come across as over hype to me. And to those who disagree and are annoyed by the so called 'hype' my I suggest you just dont read it. But to read it and then complain about reading it. Anyway my 2cents worth :)

[email hidden] (redTed) wrote: > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. No. Time for them to get just get on with their work. Good things take a long time (apart from sex, which gets it's name from being an abbreviations for seconds). I'd be happy to hear and see *nothing* about WSC for five more years if that's what it takes. It occurs to me -- being involved in recent discussion about paying for GPL patches -- that I'd even invest a $ or two a month to subsidise the Wests' development work if they got dumped for taking too long. It wouldn't take too many gamblers like me to finance a small team.... assuming that team doesn't have a taste for caviar, champagne and showgirls (though they can borrow my copy of the video if they want, it's only worn in a couple of places). Andrew McP

It's possible the GPL demo may have actually put off a lot of 'semi-serious' sim racers. It may have sold much better without a demo. The reasons being the difficulty and the extremely high (for that time) system requirements. I remember playing the GPL demo and getting 16 fps in training! I agree though, i'd love to see a WSC demo, and by all accounts they intend to release one. If the game will be done mid-2002, then I think it's realistic to expect a demo around the end of this year. Who knows though? You could well have to add another year onto both those dates. Just on Daikatana, which I still haven't seen btw, I think it got hyped because John Romero had worked on Doom, but he was only one of four programmers on Doom, and John Carmack wrote the engine. I'd say FPS games and sims are different though. It's hard to look at screenshots of an FPS and say how good it's likely to be (Half-life looked pretty average from the screenshots) but it's easy to look at the WSC screenshots and see at least tremendous attention to detail. Hopefully that detail will be present in the physics model as well. "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > That's second-hand info, though. From a good source, granted, but it's > still no substitute. > > Agreed up to a point. But remember Daikatana - years of delay, years of > "it'll be done when it's done", years of "it has to be perfect"... and > it was a huge disappointment[1]. GP3 too, to some extent. > > To be honest, I do think it would be sensible to "do a GPL" and release > a demo early, even if it's just one (unfinished) car at one > (unfinished) track. It was that Glen demo that made me wait for GPL > happily - without it, I think I miught have got rather frustrated. I > don't think releasing nothing more than pictures until the game is > almost released is very sensible. > > [1] At least, according to those who know - FPS games are not my forte. > > David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +282.87)

[email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote: > But remember Daikatana Wash your mouth out! To be fair the Wests seem like reasonable human beings. Romero was always a (fairly talented at one stage) one man publicity campaign. Sadly he was advertising Wash n Go, not his game design skills. Andrew McP

Empire haven't gone to E3, hence WSC isn't there. "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9e9dhk$1p3ru$[email hidden]... > > I don't think I was being especially rude. > So, there was a playable preview at LAST year's E3, but nothing this year? > That doesn't strike anyone as being slightly odd ?

[email hidden] (Simon Brown) wrote: > Empire haven't gone to E3 It occurs to me that Empire have just dumped the Rowan flight sim team from a great height. Things may not be rosy chez Empire (assuming they're rosy at any publishing house at the moment), hence the need to save money, especially if they don't have any imminent releases to push. Andrew McP

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]... > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. Just sit back and take what you get, when you get it, and be thankful that you didn't have to put in the time and effort to create it, or make it yourself and let us know when it's done.

What do you care? I know it is gonna be released...if you don't think so, then sit down and go play need for speed. Believe what you want buddy. Jesse Black

It's sounds like a very nice project and labour of love. Kinda reminds me of that French dude that constructed a miniature Ferrari prototype car in his basement, complete with working engine and other parts!!! How many hours spent doing this? But it's heck of a sweet project. Let's just wait and see. We still have other sims to keep us occupied in the meantime. redTed wrote:

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> > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years > ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the > feeling this game is too good to be true. > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > -- > ICQ# 104825454

-- Philippe "Philster" Sergerie

That brings up a whole different stinky kettle of fish. IF...the deal the West Brothers signed is similar to most producer/developer contracts...Empire most likely owns the rights to WSC. If Empire stops production, then WSC ceases to exist. Only if another publishing house bought the rights from Empire could any work proceed after Empire pulls the plug. That is a chilling thought, I do seem to be rather negative lately....lets just call that a worst case scenario and hope it doesn't happen. dave henrie "Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (redTed) wrote: > > > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > > No. Time for them to get just get on with their work. Good things take a > long time (apart from sex, which gets it's name from being an > abbreviations for seconds). > > I'd be happy to hear and see *nothing* about WSC for five more years if > that's what it takes. > > It occurs to me -- being involved in recent discussion about paying for > GPL patches -- that I'd even invest a $ or two a month to subsidise the > Wests' development work if they got dumped for taking too long. It > wouldn't take too many gamblers like me to finance a small team.... > assuming that team doesn't have a taste for caviar, champagne and > showgirls (though they can borrow my copy of the video if they want, > it's only worn in a couple of places). > > Andrew McP >

Hi all, nobody seams to see another point which is pretty clear to me after reading all the interviews and other sources of info about the so called West bro's. They started the project to have 'a sim for life', that means they won't make just a gpl ( which doesnt have sequels ), wsc will have 2.0 , 3.0 etc in my opinion. 1) Because the demand extra features of the buyers will be great (as allways) 2) If wsc becomes a flagship product, they will keep on improving it - to keep pace with hardware devolpments 3) After 1.0 is released they will *interact* with US. Just look on www.west-racing.com to see that they intend to have *official* forums in which they likelly answer questions. Did you see Papy do that?? I think the future is bright at Q4 2001 Leroy

[email hidden] (Dave Henrie) wrote: > That is a chilling thought Chilling but accurate :-/ In that case we'd have to pay to smuggle the West Brothers to a country exempt from piracy agreements and intellectual property lawyers. Mmm... hope they like chinese food ;-) But hopefully they'll be enjoying fish&chips for a long time to come... maybe off gold plates if WSC does well :-> Andrew McP

In article <9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years > ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the > feeling this game is too good to be true. > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! >

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and they want it for *free*. I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I will... You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

John? Why are you beating around the bush? Don't be evasive.. Please tell us what your real feelings are about this!! <BFG> "John Simmons" wrote:

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| Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless | prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut | up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about | bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software | developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary | reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want | their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and | they want it for *free*. | I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I | will... | You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue.

Yeah, he needs to learn how to express his feelings ;) <G> "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:De7O6.8052$[email hidden]...

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| | John? Why are you beating around the bush? Don't be evasive.. | Please tell us what your real feelings are about this!! <BFG> | | "John Simmons" wrote: | | Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless | | prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut | | up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about | | bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software | | developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary | | reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want | | their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and | | they want it for *free*. | | I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I | | will... | | You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. | | |

Guys may I bring one important factor ?? The demo played back then is not the same "WSC" as it is now, Chris brought so much to the physics modeling and found and fix little errors in every aspect of the car. Then they have over 18 cars now, and few new tracks. As I mentioned earlier, one of the reason why there was gap in information provided came from licencing issues with different parties. And Empire felt that feeding us (webmasters to give you goodies) was not that important. Eric Simon Brown wrote:

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> People here (although not me) have actually played it.� Tom Pabst played it > at E3 last year if I remember correctly. > > I don't think they'd produce all those screenshots in 3d studio or something > just for a laugh.� They clearly are working on a real game, and judging by > the quality of the screenshots, when they do finish, someone will definitely > want to publish it (no reason to imagine that wouldn't be Empire). > > It's *not* time for them to put up or shut up, it's time for them to carry > on working on the game until it's finished.� They can't release it until > it's done.� I think we've all had enough of publishers throwing out > unfinished games.� Papy took 2 years on GPL with a much bigger team, so if > it takes another year or more for WSC then that's fair enough. > > Stick GPL on, and start getting impatient about WSC the middle of next year. > > :) > > "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]... > > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > > We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years > > ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > > maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > > http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the > > feeling this game is too good to be true. > > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > > > > -- > > ICQ# 104825454 > > > >

� Doh Andrew.. as if the West Bros took a break... gee this is terrible to say.. hope Chris and Tony is not reading this one... Eric � Andrew MacPherson wrote:

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> [email hidden] (redTed) wrote: > > > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > > No. Time for them to get just get on with their work. Good things take a > long time (apart from sex, which gets it's name from being an > abbreviations for seconds). > > I'd be happy to hear and see *nothing* about WSC for five more years if > that's what it takes. > > It occurs to me -- being involved in recent discussion about paying for > GPL patches -- that I'd even invest a $ or two a month to subsidise the > Wests' development work if they got dumped for taking too long. It > wouldn't take too many gamblers like me to finance a small team.... > assuming that team doesn't have a taste for caviar, champagne and > showgirls (though they can borrow my copy of the video if they want, > it's only worn in a couple of places). > > Andrew McP

Andrew, you can sponsor me if you want :P Ash (about 5 years away from a decent sim)

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| | Andrew MacPherson wrote: | | > [email hidden] (redTed) wrote: | > | > > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. | > | > No. Time for them to get just get on with their work. Good things take a | > long time (apart from sex, which gets it's name from being an | > abbreviations for seconds). | > | > I'd be happy to hear and see *nothing* about WSC for five more years if | > that's what it takes. | > | > It occurs to me -- being involved in recent discussion about paying for | > GPL patches -- that I'd even invest a $ or two a month to subsidise the | > Wests' development work if they got dumped for taking too long. It | > wouldn't take too many gamblers like me to finance a small team.... | > assuming that team doesn't have a taste for caviar, champagne and | > showgirls (though they can borrow my copy of the video if they want, | > it's only worn in a couple of places). | > | > Andrew McP |

On Sun, 20 May 2001 22:36:52 +0100, "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >> >> Patience will tell, rudeness wont. >> >> > Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! >> >> There was a preview at E3 last year. Some posters here and at the High >> Gear forum actually tried it. > >I don't think I was being especially rude. >So, there was a playable preview at LAST year's E3, but nothing this year ? >That doesn't strike anyone as being slightly odd ?

After the build-up and let-down we all experienced with Trans Am Racing: 1967 - 1972 a few years ago, I can understand why some people may be getting a bit nervous about WSC. Still, as the man said, patience will tell, one way or the other. -- JB

John Simmons wrote: > I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I > will... > > You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. Well said sir! Best Gerry

John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in <[email hidden]>:

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>In article <9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. >> We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two >> years ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief >> glimpse, maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available >> http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get >> the feeling this game is too good to be true. >> Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! >> > >Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless >prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut >up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about >bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software >developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary >reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want >their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and >they want it for *free*. > >I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I >will... > >You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. >

Prick. I think he has a valid point. We've seen screenshots for ages, how about a few movies? I have worked in software development myself and yes, users who demand immediate release and then slam imperfect software leave a lot to be desired. However, developers who don't release anything more than screenshots (I'm thinking 3D Realms and Valve in particular) run the risk of having credability issues. I can't see how having the odd written preview or avi out there would hurt the sales of the West brothers but at the end of the day it's their call. However they run the risk of people questioning how good the software is. I can think of at least two games that were supposedly under construction that were nothing more than a bunch of 3d model renderings based on engine predictions (and no I'm not saying WSC is that). That they were never released in the end is a good thing, because, by all accounts, they sucked. If you weren't such an ignorant lackwit you'd have read the post correctly and understood that he wasn't asking for the game, just something more tangible than screenshots. M

On 21 May 2001 16:44:58 GMT, [email hidden] (Meiji) wrote: >I think he has a valid point. We've seen screenshots for ages, how about a >few movies? They released a couple of movies quite some time ago. -- eFalcon keyboard chart in PDF format http://storm.prohosting.com/~nos146/ef4_keys.zip

On Mon, 21 May 2001 01:07 +0100 (BST), [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

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>[email hidden] (redTed) wrote: > >> Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > >No. Time for them to get just get on with their work. Good things take a >long time (apart from sex, which gets it's name from being an >abbreviations for seconds). > >I'd be happy to hear and see *nothing* about WSC for five more years if >that's what it takes.

There is such a thing as a window of opportunity, though -- look at GP3, for example: It would have been a GREAT sim if it had been released 2 years earlier, but when it finally WAS released, the "3D" graphics effects were WAY behind the current state-of-the-art (yeah, the variable weather was good, but in the era of mega 3D cards, sprites just plain suck). Another way to look at it is this: From the flight sim perspective, how would the flight sim community have felt about Falcon 3.0 be if it were released today, rather than when it was? You claim you'd be willing to wait 5 years if that's what it takes, but in 2006, would you be happy purchasing WSC as a "new" product if the graphics were only up to 2001 graphics standards? I assume there will be plenty of advances in the area of graphics alone in the course of 5 years -- by then, 1024x768 screen resolutions may look like SVGA, compared to what's coming in the future. And if the West brothers keep developing every aspect of WSC as technology evolves, then we'll be waiting far longer than 5 years for WSC.

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>It occurs to me -- being involved in recent discussion about paying for >GPL patches -- that I'd even invest a $ or two a month to subsidise the >Wests' development work if they got dumped for taking too long. It >wouldn't take too many gamblers like me to finance a small team.... >assuming that team doesn't have a taste for caviar, champagne and >showgirls (though they can borrow my copy of the video if they want, >it's only worn in a couple of places).

Speaking of GPL, given the recent problems that GPL has experienced on 1.5 GHz machines, look at where we'd be if it had taken Papy 5 years to release GPL. If that had occurred, then GPL might have included dynamic weather, but it wouldn't have arrived until next year, and by that point in time, it looks like it might have been unplayable on a lot of modern systems. Or the release date might have been delayed another few months beyond that while the game code was revised YET AGAIN so that it could be compatible with current systems upon release. Frankly, I'm glad we got it when we did. I don't believe the West brothers are going to make us wait 5 years, and I don't think WSC is vapor-ware, but I think there are other things ALREADY waiting in the wings that are going to give WSC a run for the money as the contender for the GPL sim crown (Rally Trophy and F1 2001, to name two). WSC is going to be good, but if the West brothers pass the window of opportunity for the release date, then they're running the risk of becoming the next GP3 or Daikatana. Just my $0.02. -- JB

If i recall the talks with the Wests correctly, the Wests basically can afford to keep the rights to WSC to themselves, and can actually decide which publisher they want. Empire has done many good things for them, so they want to stay. But basically, if Empire would go bankrupt tomorrow, afaik the Wests can clean their desks there and go to another publisher. Martijn. Dave Henrie heeft geschreven in bericht ... > That brings up a whole different stinky kettle of fish. >IF...the deal the West Brothers signed is similar to mostproducer/developer

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>contracts...Empire most likely owns the rights to WSC. If Empire stops >production, then WSC ceases to exist. Only if another publishing house >bought the rights from Empire could any work proceed after Empire pulls the >plug. That is a chilling thought, I do seem to be rather negative >lately....lets just call that a worst case scenario and hope it doesn't >happen. >dave henrie

>We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two years >ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, >maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available >http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get the >feeling this game is too good to be true. >Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! Yeah, i've seen the game running, tried it myself. Its great!!! Even when there were some things in the way of getting the absolute max out of the car (such as the crappy carsetup that was programmed, and the err... challenging engine characteristic that makes a BRM feel like an electromotor) you could definately feel the car bouncing around and doing the stuff you expect. The connection to the road was excellent, (unlike with GP3, MGPRS, F12000 or F1RC), correcting turn-in or turn-out oversteer was natural. The clutch felt very realistic also, i could nearly smell the burning (hey.. it was a rental car, so...) You have to use the clutch in order to save the engine from dying, when you spin. To be honest, i didnt really saw the graphics while driving, i was too busy keeping the wheels on the black stuff. WSC is hard, when driven on the limit. The car was so much more responsive than GPL, due to the much stiffer suspension. ah i am rambling... my only point was, WSC exists. Martijn.

Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote on 21 May 2001: >It's possible the GPL demo may have actually put off a lot of >'semi-serious' sim racers.<snip> Possibly. NOt me, though - as soon as the engine started, it was a must-have game. It's cost a fortune over the years, but... who cares? :-DDD -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +282.87) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Meiji wrote:

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> Prick. > > I think he has a valid point. We've seen screenshots for ages, how about a > few movies? I have worked in software development myself and yes, users who > demand immediate release and then slam imperfect software leave a lot to be > desired. However, developers who don't release anything more than > screenshots (I'm thinking 3D Realms and Valve in particular) run the risk > of having credability issues. I can't see how having the odd written > preview or avi out there would hurt the sales of the West brothers but at > the end of the day it's their call. However they run the risk of people > questioning how good the software is.

I've seen the movies and some ppl have tried an early version of the sim.... > If you weren't such an ignorant lackwit you'd have read the post correctly > and understood that he wasn't asking for the game, just something more > tangible than screenshots. ....and if you and Tedinbed had bothered to ask.....i think i'm just going to have to stop talking to you in mi

I'll try not to hold back next time. :-) In article <9eb26o$19n$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Yeah, he needs to learn how to express his feelings ;) <G> > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:De7O6.8052$[email hidden]... > | > | John? Why are you beating around the bush? Don't be evasive.. > | Please tell us what your real feelings are about this!! <BFG> > | > | "John Simmons" wrote: > | | Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless > | | prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut > | | up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about > | | bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software > | | developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary > | | reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want > | | their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and > | | they want it for *free*. > | | I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I > | | will... > | | You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. > | > | > | > > >

-- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in > <[email hidden]>: > > >In article <9e9b6s$1rj9g$[email hidden]>, > >[email hidden] says... > >> Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. > >> We were seeing gorgeous screenshots of this mythical game nearly two > >> years ago. Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief > >> glimpse, maybe ? There are loads of screenshots available > >> http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/screenshots/wsc/ , but I just get > >> the feeling this game is too good to be true. > >> Lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind ! > >> > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless > >prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut > >up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about > >bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software > >developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary > >reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want > >their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and > >they want it for *free*. > > > >I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I > >will... > > > >You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. > > > > Prick. > > I think he has a valid point. We've seen screenshots for ages, how about a > few movies? I have worked in software development myself and yes, users who > demand immediate release and then slam imperfect software leave a lot to be > desired. However, developers who don't release anything more than > screenshots (I'm thinking 3D Realms and Valve in particular) run the risk > of having credability issues. I can't see how having the odd written > preview or avi out there would hurt the sales of the West brothers but at > the end of the day it's their call. However they run the risk of people > questioning how good the software is. > > I can think of at least two games that were supposedly under construction > that were nothing more than a bunch of 3d model renderings based on engine > predictions (and no I'm not saying WSC is that). That they were never > released in the end is a good thing, because, by all accounts, they sucked. > > If you weren't such an ignorant lackwit you'd have read the post correctly > and understood that he wasn't asking for the game, just something more > tangible than screenshots. > > M >

Well, if you weren't a learning impaired semi-conscious sorry excuse for a pile of donkey shit, you'd probably be able to see that's exactly what he wants. The *only* thing more tangible than screenshots is a fuckin WSC directory on your hard drive. I bet you and ted look a lot alike... that sloping forehead, a single eyebrow running from ear to ear, and that dull lifeless stare at something only you can see, and mumbling something about finally being able to go potty without any help... -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

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> > Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless > prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut > up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about > bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software > developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary > reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want > their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and > they want it for *free*. > > I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I > will... > > You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue.

And you are precisely the kind of ignorant, abusive, Yankee stereotype that we have all come to despise so much over here in Britain. My original post was genuine and well meaning. Contrary to what some of you believe, it was not intended as an insult to the people creating the game at all.. Sometimes it is easy to be mis-understood when sending typed messages, but thankfully you DO NOT speak on behalf of the West Bros., because I have had a response regarding this post from them. I will not quote their exact words, but I have had my "fevered mind" eased. So there ! P.S "*prefect* right out of the gate, and > they want it for *free*. = gibberish.

redTed wrote: > I will not quote their exact words, but I have had my "fevered mind" eased. > So there ! Thank god you're happy! Now can the West brothers get on with finishing the thing? If that's ok with you? Or are they serving you breakfast in bed for the next 12 months too?;) Gerry

"> > Thank god you're happy! Now can the West brothers get on with finishing > the thing? If that's ok with you? Or are they serving you breakfast in > bed for the next 12 months too?;) >I don't like abusive mail, of any kind. Is that ok with you ?

redTed wrote: > I don't like abusive mail, of any kind. Is that ok with you ? No!

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9ec2h5$24fc5$[email hidden]... > > And you are precisely the kind of ignorant, abusive, Yankee stereotypethat > we have all come to despise so much over here in Britain. Guess I'll have to fire up my copy of Braveheart again.... dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2JlO6.40356$[email hidden]...

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> > "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9ec2h5$24fc5$[email hidden]... > > > > And you are precisely the kind of ignorant, abusive, Yankee stereotype > that > > we have all come to despise so much over here in Britain. > > Guess I'll have to fire up my copy of Braveheart again.... > dave henrie

lol!

Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in <[email hidden]>: >....and if you and Tedinbed had bothered to ask.....i think i'm just >going to have to stop talking to you in mi "funny"

John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in <[email hidden]>:

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>Well, if you weren't a learning impaired semi-conscious sorry excuse for >a pile of donkey shit, you'd probably be able to see that's exactly what >he wants. The *only* thing more tangible than screenshots is a fuckin >WSC directory on your hard drive. I bet you and ted look a lot alike... >that sloping forehead, a single eyebrow running from ear to ear, and >that dull lifeless stare at something only you can see, and mumbling >something about finally being able to go potty without any help...

Maybe you'd have been better actually telling him that in the first place instead of blasting him? Personally I'm not too bothered about the release date of sims as there's plenty to be going on with as it stands. However it would have been nice to say "Here's the evidence" to "ted" and leave him to decide. As for the rest of your post. I'm hurt... I really am. No, really. M

Then don't dish out what you can't handle receiving . -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> redTed <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9ec5hn$2726u$[email hidden]... > > > > I don't like abusive mail, of any kind. Is that ok with you ? > >

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9eec2m$4id$[email hidden]... > Then don't dish out what you can't handle receiving . > > --Sorry ? Are you reading the same thread ?

So you wouldn't class your initial post to this thread as abusive ? I certainly would.

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>From: redTed ([email hidden]) >Subject: WSC- Myth or Reality ? >Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators >Date: 2001-05-20 13:59:11 PST >Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. >

-- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> redTed <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9eedpu$287ev$[email hidden]... > > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9eec2m$4id$[email hidden]... > > Then don't dish out what you can't handle receiving . > > > > -- > Sorry ? Are you reading the same thread ? > >

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9egqj1$qe9$[email hidden]... > > So you wouldn't class your initial post to this thread as abusive ? > > I certainly would. >This is mint. Go on then, what part of that post was abusive ?

redTeddy spouted incoherently thus:

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> > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9egqj1$qe9$[email hidden]... > > > > So you wouldn't class your initial post to this thread as abusive ? > > > > I certainly would. > > > This is mint. Go on then, what part of that post was abusive ?

The overall tone WAS abusive. Telling someone to 'put up or shut up' IS abusive in that context. Then you went on to describe their work as 'mythical' and also said it was 'too good to be true', did you think they'd been lying about the whole thing? Some people deserve abuse, the West brothers don't.

Exactly how I saw it Gerry. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > redTeddy spouted incoherently thus: > > > > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9egqj1$qe9$[email hidden]... > > > > > > So you wouldn't class your initial post to this thread as abusive ? > > > > > > I certainly would. > > > > > This is mint. Go on then, what part of that post was abusive ? > > The overall tone WAS abusive. Telling someone to 'put up or shut up' IS > abusive in that context. Then you went on to describe their work as > 'mythical' and also said it was 'too good to be true', did you think > they'd been lying about the whole thing? > > Some people deserve abuse, the West brothers don't.

The general tone of your post came across as abusive, quite a few other people here also found it abusive. Whether or not you meant it to sound abusive is irrelevant, what matters is how the meaning of your posts are perceived. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> redTed <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9egrma$2o0qi$[email hidden]... > > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9egqj1$qe9$[email hidden]... > > > > So you wouldn't class your initial post to this thread as abusive ? > > > > I certainly would. > > > This is mint. Go on then, what part of that post was abusive ? > > >

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9ehb1q$ekk$[email hidden]... > The general tone of your post came across as abusive, quite a few other > people here also found it abusive. > Whether or not you meant it to sound abusive is irrelevant, what mattersis > how the meaning of your posts are perceived. Pay attention, class. Below is an abusive e-mail.........

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> >Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless > >prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut > >up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about > >bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software > >developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary > >reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want > >their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and > >they want it for *free*. > > > >I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I > >will... > > > >You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. > >

Mine was not. Clear ?

Pay attention, class. Below is an abusive e-mail......... Mine was not. Clear ?

> that > > we have all come to despise so much over here in Britain. > Guess I'll have to fire up my copy of Braveheart again.... British History 101 for Americans ?

redTed <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9ehc8k$32vkd$[email hidden]...

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> > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9ehb1q$ekk$[email hidden]... > > The general tone of your post came across as abusive, quite a few other > > people here also found it abusive. > > Whether or not you meant it to sound abusive is irrelevant, what matters > is > > how the meaning of your posts are perceived. > > Pay attention, class. > Below is an abusive e-mail......... > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless > > >prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut > > >up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream

about

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> > >bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software > > >developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary > > >reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want > > >their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and > > >they want it for *free*. > > > > > >I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so

I > > >will... > > > > > >You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. > > > > Indeed it was abusive, but it wasn't that one we were talking about was it ? Pay attention ! Good advice, you'd be advised to use it. > Mine was not. > Clear ? Not clear at all. Your post was abusive, just in a way which you could later say it wasn't meant to be abusive. Just as many of your replies since have been abusive, as well as patronising. > > -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam>

There's a difference ted, I intended my post to be abusive. Your post was abusive because you have poor communications skills. In article <9ehc8k$32vkd$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9ehb1q$ekk$[email hidden]... > > The general tone of your post came across as abusive, quite a few other > > people here also found it abusive. > > Whether or not you meant it to sound abusive is irrelevant, what matters > is > > how the meaning of your posts are perceived. > > Pay attention, class. > Below is an abusive e-mail......... > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of a thoughtless > > >prick. If the West Brothers gave in to his demand to "put up or shut > > >up", this is the same asshole that will be the first one to scream about > > >bugs that he finds. This is *precisely* the kind of users we software > > >developers *do not want*, and this type of user is one of the primary > > >reasons why the software industry is in its current state. They want > > >their software *now*, they want it *prefect* right out of the gate, and > > >they want it for *free*. > > > > > >I know the West Brothers (and other sim programmers) can't say this so I > > >will... > > > > > >You can kiss my rosey redneck sphincter, redTed. Get a freakin clue. > > > > > Mine was not. > Clear ? > > >

-- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

BedsteadTed caught up this sorry load of drivel: > Pay attention, class. I seriously doubt if you could teach a baby stick insect to stand still...but go on then, I'll indulge you. > Below is an abusive e-mail......... You're in no position to complain. > Mine was not. Yours was abusive and just plain stupid, not that being stupid is a crime, pity the fool and all that. But I still don't understand why you didn't first ask if anyone had seen any hard evidence before assuming that there wasn't any? You know what I think? I think you might be completely stupid and I think you should 'put up or shut up' in that regard, because I reckon your brain might be a 'mythical' organ and any rummers that you're alive from the neck up might be 'too good to be true'. So 'lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered mind' ! > Clear ? Yes, if we're talking about the space between your ears. Condescendingly yours :) Gerry PS note the smile, i just put that in to soften the blow.

i just realized something...is it common practice at English castles to throw folks out the window?? I mean if we look at English History via film we have two very consistant and persistant actions. Brits build castles...Brits throw/push others out the window? Do they build the castle to toss people or do they toss people because they built the castle? These questions MUST be answered. For reference see Braveheart and Monty Python's Holy Grail. I rest my case. dave henrie "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9ehcff$308ab$[email hidden]...

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> > > that > > > we have all come to despise so much over here in Britain. > > Guess I'll have to fire up my copy of Braveheart again.... > > British History 101 for Americans ? > >

Dave Henrie wrote in message ... > i just realized something...is it common practice at English castles to >throw folks out the window?? I mean if we look at English History viafilm

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>we have two very consistant and persistant actions. > Brits build castles...Brits throw/push others out the window? Do they >build the castle to toss people or do they toss people because they built >the castle? > These questions MUST be answered. For reference see Braveheart and Monty >Python's Holy Grail. >I rest my case. >dave henrie

These are the people who love climbing mountains "because they are there" (was that Sir Edmund Hillary?). Not everyone can get to the mountains, but everyone can get to a window. You will notice from the historic works you quote that most peasant types werre eternally filthy. Although royalty and the elite had access to high windows, most peasants had simply a low window opening to the pig pen where they landed after being thrown out. Similarly, most English cottages are low-slung. In fact, when I visited London, the budget hotel had the windows of my room were sealed shut, presumably to halt anyone who got the urge to turf their mate out from a height (the foyer windows could open). So, there you go, proof. Ben

"Ben Coleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b0c9999$[email hidden]... > These are the people who love climbing mountains "because they are there" > (was that Sir Edmund Hillary?). ...the rest snipped... No, the quote is often mistakenly attributed to Sir Edmund but it was actually George Mallory who uttered that phrase. Mallory is still believed by many to have been the first man to make the summit of Everest (although he did not survive) on June 8th, 1924. A very interesting story but decidedly off topic unless we throw in Hemingway's reference to the only true sports... mountian climbing, auto racing, and bull fighting. (obviously not a complete quote but it serves to mention motorsports and thus my post is saved from being completely off topic.) ;) Robin

Jeez, I think he's got the message that in general there is disagreement with the tone of his first post. He's already retracted it and said he didn't _mean_ to offend. Can we stop abusing the poor fellow or will you only be happy after a public flogging? Gerry Aitken wrote:

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> > BedsteadTed caught up this sorry load of drivel: > > > Pay attention, class. > > I seriously doubt if you could teach a baby stick insect to stand > still...but go on then, I'll indulge you. > > > Below is an abusive e-mail......... > > You're in no position to complain. > > > Mine was not. > > Yours was abusive and just plain stupid, not that being stupid is a > crime, pity the fool and all that. But I still don't understand why you > didn't first ask if anyone had seen any hard evidence before assuming > that there wasn't any? You know what I think? I think you might be > completely stupid and I think you should 'put up or shut up' in that > regard, because I reckon your brain might be a 'mythical' organ and any > rummers that you're alive from the neck up might be 'too good to be > true'. So 'lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered > mind' ! > > > Clear ? > > Yes, if we're talking about the space between your ears. > > Condescendingly yours :) > > Gerry > > PS note the smile, i just put that in to soften the blow.

-- Andy

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Jeez, I think he's got the message that in general there is disagreement > with the tone of his first post. He's already retracted it and said he > didn't _mean_ to offend. Can we stop abusing the poor fellow or will you > only be happy after a public flogging? > PUBLIC FLOGGING! PUBLIC FLOGGING!! -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

says... PUBLIC ***! PUBLIC ***!! -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

;@) John Simmons wrote: > > PUBLIC FLOGGING! PUBLIC FLOGGING!! -- Andy

Andy Straw wrote: > > Jeez, I think he's got the message that in general there is disagreement > with the tone of his first post. He's already retracted it and said he > didn't _mean_ to offend. Can we stop abusing the poor fellow or will you > only be happy after a public flogging? Hang him, cut him down while he's still alive, disembowel him and finally cut his head off :). Gerry

dont you love how RAS totally ignores actual content and answers to questions, but instead continues mindlessly with unending ramblings about nothing at all? why even bother... �artijn heeft geschreven in bericht <3b09642d$0$6045@reader4>... >Yeah, i've seen the game running, tried it myself. Its great!!! <snip>

"Andy Straw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Jeez, I think he's got the message that in general there is disagreement > with the tone of his first post. He's already retracted it and said he > didn't _mean_ to offend. Can we stop abusing the poor fellow or will you > only be happy after a public flogging? I appreciate the support, but that's the way it goes in this newsgroup. Dare to speak your mind and you WILL be ritually abused by one and all. It's a sort of bonding session for r.a.s subscribers. You either toe the party line and say nothing, or else. I was under the misguided impression that this place was open to all for creating public debate on all things sim related. I did realize after the first few replies that my message wasn't going to be accepted in the manner I intended, and for that I am sorry. But I certainly didn't deserve the sort of abuse I received from a couple of the regs here. Cheers.

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> Yours was abusive and just plain stupid, not that being stupid is a > crime, pity the fool and all that. But I still don't understand why you > didn't first ask if anyone had seen any hard evidence before assuming > that there wasn't any? You know what I think? I think you might be > completely stupid and I think you should 'put up or shut up' in that > regard, because I reckon your brain might be a 'mythical' organ and any > rummers that you're alive from the neck up might be 'too good to be > true'. So 'lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered > mind' !

I'll try to ignore most of the crap you typed and just deal with this small section. The commonly used term "put up or shut up" is not abuse. Why you think it is baffles me. You are trying so hard to impress your pals with your rapier like wit, it makes me cringe.You obviously did not read my original post. That is why you "still don't understand why you didn't first ask if anyone had seen any hard evidence before assuming that there wasn't any?" If you did, you might have noted the following couple of sentences that I cunningly slipped into the message. "Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, maybe ?" Also, "rummers" wasn't the word you were looking for, was it ? The smile helped a lot, thanks. Without that, I don't know if I could have made it through the day ! I admit, I was being a little condescending before, but if I had known I was dealing with a couple of 8th graders, I would have been even more so. :-)

redTed had a good hard strain amd deposited this turd like post:

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> > > Yours was abusive and just plain stupid, not that being stupid is a > > crime, pity the fool and all that. But I still don't understand why you > > didn't first ask if anyone had seen any hard evidence before assuming > > that there wasn't any? You know what I think? I think you might be > > completely stupid and I think you should 'put up or shut up' in that > > regard, because I reckon your brain might be a 'mythical' organ and any > > rummers that you're alive from the neck up might be 'too good to be > > true'. So 'lets see a rolling preview at least, just to ease my fevered > > mind' ! > > I'll try to ignore most of the crap you typed and just deal with this small > section. > The commonly used term "put up or shut up" is not abuse. Why you think it is > baffles me. > You are trying so hard to impress your pals with your rapier like wit, it > makes me cringe.You obviously did not read my original post. That is why you > "still don't understand why you didn't first ask if anyone had seen any hard > evidence before assuming > that there wasn't any?" > If you did, you might have noted the following couple of sentences that I > cunningly slipped into the message. > "Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, > maybe ?" > Also, "rummers" wasn't the word you were looking for, was it ? > The smile helped a lot, thanks. Without that, I don't know if I could have > made it through the day ! > I admit, I was being a little condescending before, but if I had known I was > dealing with a couple of 8th graders, I would have been even more so. > :-)

Your not getting off that easy son. You said 'put up or shut up' first, THEN you added, "Has anyone actually seen this game running ? Just a brief glimpse, maybe ?", which I thought was slightly rhetorical seeming as you had already called it 'mythical'. Now RUMOUR has it that you're just a under informed guy with poor communicative skills, but i think you're just rude. Oh and thanks for the spell check...the saddest thing you could have done...and for putting me in the 8th grade.

Oh and thanks for the spell check...the saddest thing > you could have done...and for putting me in the 8th grade. Why's that ? Are you not that advanced yet ?

redTed wrote: > > Oh and thanks for the spell check...the saddest thing > > you could have done...and for putting me in the 8th grade. > > Why's that ? Are you not that advanced yet ? Made me feel young....er.

[email hidden] (redTed) wrote: > I was under the misguided impression that this place was open to all for > creating public debate on all things sim related. Now you sound like DGF when he's having his period :-> Anyone expressing strong opinions on usenet is asking for strong responses. You said... > Time for West Bros. to put up or shut up. ...and that's a *very* provocative phrase no matter what you meant to say. If you're using it regularly in everyday speech then you're asking for trouble. It's one of the most antagonistic phrases in the Bolshy Bugger's Bumper Book to Bolshiness, putting a negative spin on your whole post. It's a style thing, not a content problem. Andrew McP

In article <[email hidden]>, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Andy Straw wrote: >> >> Jeez, I think he's got the message that in general there is disagreement >> with the tone of his first post. He's already retracted it and said he >> didn't _mean_ to offend. Can we stop abusing the poor fellow or will you >> only be happy after a public flogging? > >Hang him, cut him down while he's still alive, disembowel him and >finally cut his head off :). > >Gerry

And after that - take him to Detroit... <g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Just sit back and take what you get, when you get it,and be thankful that > you didn't have to put in the time and effort to createit, or make it > yourself and let us know when it's done. COOL ! So WSC is going to be free ?

and be thankful that COOL ! So WSC is going to be free ?