Re: public apology to the West brothers

It's a sim for life, so what's a few months :D What we need is a little coma that's all.

Hi Todd, I knew Chris will set things straight! :) Welcome to the club! -Gregor Todd Walker wrote: > > One of my philosophies in life has been to speak my mind when I feel > strongly about something but also to be prepared to admit that I am > wrong if necessary. I spoke my mind about WSC a couple of days ago and > I am here now to admit that I was wrong. >

Quite, gives me some time to finish work on my GPLRank before starting work on WSCrank from scratch! Leroy wrote: > > It's a sim for life, so what's a few months :D What we need is a little coma that's all. -- Andy -- Andy Straw [email hidden] (01865) 48-3321. Operations Analyst, Operations, Computer Services. Brookes University --------------------------------------------------------------------- These statements are my own, not those of Brookes University

You know if I was the West Brothers, I would be thinking, with all the garbage that has been slung around here, of just keeping my mouth shut till the product is done andout the door. I hope they do not, but many of the people here just are not satified with anything. You want info, you want a demo, you want this in the game that in the game, you end up asking for a different game in the end. West Brothers if Todd is correct and you are reading over these, keep going I am sure it will be a great game/sim, and I will be waiting at EB when I hear its coming my way. Dave Robinson Todd Walker <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> One of my philosophies in life has been to speak my mind when I feel > strongly about something but also to be prepared to admit that I am > wrong if necessary. I spoke my mind about WSC a couple of days ago and > I am here now to admit that I was wrong. > > I got a personal email from Chris West that was completely sincere and > the tone was one of someone who was geniunely concerned about > producing a quality product. This tells me many things. First of all, > they are watching this forum and taking the response to WSC to heart. > Second, they are willing to listen and provide feedback when > necessary. That means that when the game is released we can expect > more of the same. What more can you expect? This kind of attention to > the end users is unheard of in the game market today and I applaud > them for doing so. After all, we are the ones that are going to buy it > or not and they realize that. I think that this shows that they are > honest and sincere about what they are doing. This is obviously a > labor of love for them (as others have mentioned) and they are not > going to release it until they feel that it's just right. That tells > me that they aren't in it for the quick buck -- they are in it for the > love of sim racing. We need more developers around like the Wests. > > I think that my prior attitude was a product of the negativity here > and other places regarding the game and I blindly jumped on the > bandwagon. I had nothing to base my opinion on and I made a snap > judgment without any facts to back it up. For this I sincerely > apologize to the West brothers. I know what it is like to be working > your ass off on a project and hear someone say "You mean you aren't > finished yet? What the hell have you been doing???" and the reason you > aren't finished is because you want it to be JUST RIGHT. > > I'll be first in line to buy WSC when it comes out if for no other > reason than to say "thank you" to the Wests for their efforts. > > Todd Walker > twalker at jam dot rr dot com > http://twalker.d2g.com > >

"Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I got a personal email from Chris West that was completely sincere and > the tone was one of someone who was geniunely concerned about > producing a quality product. This tells me many things. First of all, > they are watching this forum and taking the response to WSC to heart. If he's reading this forum than he must be a glutton for punishment. As to the criticism that's been leveled at WSC... I'm not sure that anyone is truly negative towards the game. I know that many are frustrated and if Usenet is good for one thing it's for venting your frustrations. I believe that posts here tend to amplify someones true feelings. So if you're a little bit concerned with the progress of the game, you may come across like satan himself. I've always had concerns that WSC will ever make it to market. The Wests while doing a fine job never seem to make any progress. They always seem to be finishing the physics model. As a programmer I know that the most difficult part of any job is to finish it (that goes for anything around the house too). Over the last few days I've started to change my mind. New screenshots have appeared. The West's have somewhat alluded to keeping the Q3 deadline and preliminary screenshots of the menu system have appeared. All of this leads me to believe that progress is being made and that the game may arrive sometime next year. I still find a 2001 release date out of the question.

David <[email hidden]> wrote on 22 May 2001: <snip> >You want info, you want a demo, you want this in the game >that in the game, you end up asking for a different game in the end.<snip> Let's face it - if people *didn't* want all those things, there'd be something wrong! I think it's the sign of a potentially great game. -- David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +282.87) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

"Andrew S" wrote: > I've always had concerns that WSC will ever make it to market. The Wests > while doing a fine job never seem to make any progress. They always seemto > be finishing the physics model. As a programmer I know that the most > difficult part of any job is to finish it (that goes for anything aroundthe > house too). Over the last few days I've started to change my mind. New > screenshots have appeared. The West's have somewhat alluded to keepingthe > Q3 deadline and preliminary screenshots of the menu system have appeared. Didn't GPal have screenshots of its menu system? :) sorry... couldn't resist

"will" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> "Andrew S" wrote: > > > I've always had concerns that WSC will ever make it to market. The Wests > > while doing a fine job never seem to make any progress. They always seem > to > > be finishing the physics model. As a programmer I know that the most > > difficult part of any job is to finish it (that goes for anything around > the > > house too). Over the last few days I've started to change my mind. New > > screenshots have appeared. The West's have somewhat alluded to keeping > the > > Q3 deadline and preliminary screenshots of the menu system have appeared. > > Didn't GPal have screenshots of its menu system? :)

Now, that's NASTY! Expect a howling cry from somewhere in the Netherlands :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Quite honestly I do not care how long it takes... all good things are worth waiting for. I kind of fear the day WSC gets into my household, if it is just half as good as it pomises to be, I'll never be able to have a social life again. Take your time West & West... We will still be here waiting even if it takes another year. Mikkel PS: When I see those menu screendumps I'll admit to getting a little impatient though *lol* They look just perfect. Andrew S <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:98tO6.2289$[email hidden]... > > "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >[snip] > > I've always had concerns that WSC will ever make it to market. The Wests > while doing a fine job never seem to make any progress. They always seemto > be finishing the physics model. As a programmer I know that the most > difficult part of any job is to finish it (that goes for anything aroundthe > house too). Over the last few days I've started to change my mind. New > screenshots have appeared. The West's have somewhat alluded to keepingthe > Q3 deadline and preliminary screenshots of the menu system have appeared. > All of this leads me to believe that progress is being made and that the > game may arrive sometime next year. I still find a 2001 release date outof > the question. > > >

Well Done Todd!! One problem tho'.. You'll be standing in line behind me!! :-) Cheers Thom_j. "Todd Walker" wrote: <snipped for space>

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| I'll be first in line to buy WSC when it comes out if for no other | reason than to say "thank you" to the Wests for their efforts. | | Todd Walker | twalker at jam dot rr dot com | http://twalker.d2g.com |

Todd Walker wrote the following... > I spoke my mind about WSC a couple of days ago and > I am here now to admit that I was wrong.===> Snip! How refreshing! You are a class act, Mr Walker. Thank you for renewing my faith in r.a.s... Pops

Pardon my ignorance but what is the WSC that you speak of? Thanks, Skeeter On Tue, 22 May 2001 03:46:30 GMT, [email hidden] (Todd Walker) wrote: > snip >

>"skeeter" <[email hidden]> wrote > Pardon my ignorance but what is the WSC that you speak of? It's the second coming of the Christ ;-) www.simracingnews.com www.simracingmag.com -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Fran�ois M�nard wrote the following on the question "what is the WSC?" > > It's the second coming of the Christ ;-) > Fran�ois, you crack me up! Pops

Well I'm still not buying it (the development of WSC that is, not the sim itself). We've been with the same screenshots for the last year or two. Maybe I'm being naieve but if these were real gameplay shots wouldn't it mean it's close to at least a basic demo? I'm not a game developer but if they are gameplay shots then the tracks seem completed, the cars do, apparently a physics model is in place as well as AI. Besdies al the background work, isn't that what needs to be done? Am I mistaken in saying that one of the "new" shots from E3 is infact one that has been available for a while now. (the one without cars looking down the hill at a track, I forget the track, sorry.) I don't know, that level of detail has been there since day one but hasn't progressed in my eyes. To the West brothes they';ve probably seen soooo much development but thats just the problem... only they see it, we're just getting promises for this and that. I know they sincerely want to create the best sim ever but one thing gets to me. EVERY "sim" claims to ahve the most advanced racing physics ever when it's released however they word it wheather it be by the data they claim to have, F1 team support, etc... yet so many have failed. The amount of f1 games with the word "Simulation" in their title is a joke. This has promised but han't shown us anything YET. So I don't want to get my hopes up. Problem is then... if it somehow isn't great then an arcade Wordl Sports Car game isn't going to sell too well is it? Sorry, amybe I'm being too downhearted but after a lot of experience down through the years I hate to listen to hype, you can only jusdge a game when you play it since so many disappoint on what they promise.

Yes, both have many followers world-wide, Both are full of promises which we must believe through blind faith, Both are taking their time to come :-) ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RBwO6.1960$[email hidden]...

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> >"skeeter" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Pardon my ignorance but what is the WSC that you speak of? > > It's the second coming of the Christ ;-) > > www.simracingnews.com > www.simracingmag.com > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

> Am I mistaken in saying that one of the "new" shots from E3 is infact one > that has been available for a while now. (the one without cars lookingdown > the hill at a track, I forget the track, sorry.) That one isn't part of the 13 new screenshots :) It's from the same track as the new screenshots; Brands Hatch. -- Kenneth Verburg Editor-in-chief High Gear http://www.simracingnews.com

I'll be first inline here too!! :-) "Pops" wrote: | Fran�ois M�nard wrote the following on the question "what is the WSC?" | > It's the second coming of the Christ ;-) | | Fran�ois, you crack me up! | | Pops

"O" My can we also say? Cinic... huh? "GraDee" wrote: | Yes, both have many followers world-wide, | Both are full of promises which we must believe through blind faith, | Both are taking their time to come :-)

On Tue, 22 May 2001 17:41:47 GMT, "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Well I'm still not buying it (the development of WSC that is, not the sim >itself). > >We've been with the same screenshots for the last year or two. >Maybe I'm being naieve but if these were real gameplay shots wouldn't it >mean it's close to at least a basic demo? >I'm not a game developer but if they are gameplay shots then the tracks seem >completed, the cars do, apparently a physics model is in place as well as >AI.

I've had screenshots as well since (almost day 1), but that says very little about the underlying physics, the AI (which I don't even have) or the availability of the track. The last one may still have license issues. >Besdies al the background work, isn't that what needs to be done? It's not background work; it's foreground work. If you played GPL with little boxes on a flat-shaded track, it would still feel great. But look awful. The other way round is a bit easier; have great models, render them with all your builtin options on, and the audience is more easily convinced. I too play a bit along with that game; having good graphics certainly helps in drawing attention, but the majority of the work, I'd say even 90% if not more, is done in non-graphics sections. Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

Well said and a welcome commentary on the business of sim development. The West brothers are a breath of fresh air even without seeing the full fruits of their labors. But there seems to be another component operating here...the business climate they are working in. I'm quite sure they are not the only talented sim developers who care about the quality the end result and what the users have to say about it. Software is developed in a business culture who's values are defined by those of the owners of the capital that fuels it. While values in business vary widely it should be obvious that customer satisfaction is all too often just marketing hype. 'Suits', who know little of the product or the customer, call the shots for corporate stockholders who know and care even less. It's ALL about profit. Now before the right wing hordes reach for the reply button to praise the god of profit, let me say profit is not the problem. Profit is good. Profit is the food that feeds the beast that is business. The problem is with the beast. No, don't kill the beast...the beast is good too. But it is a beast. I love analogies. : ) Papyrus appears to be a good example of talented passionate people who initially created the best stuff without a corporate yoke. Indy 500 was a break through sim. But, as is all too common, they are no longer masters of their own destiny. Sierra calls the shots. God knows if they will ever let Papy do another open wheel sim, wallowing in the profits of the Nascar market. So let's enjoy watching the Wests create from passion and integrity...while it lasts. Marty Todd Walker wrote:

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> One of my philosophies in life has been to speak my mind when I feel > strongly about something but also to be prepared to admit that I am > wrong if necessary. I spoke my mind about WSC a couple of days ago and > I am here now to admit that I was wrong. > > I got a personal email from Chris West that was completely sincere and > the tone was one of someone who was geniunely concerned about > producing a quality product. This tells me many things. First of all, > they are watching this forum and taking the response to WSC to heart. > Second, they are willing to listen and provide feedback when > necessary. That means that when the game is released we can expect > more of the same. What more can you expect? This kind of attention to > the end users is unheard of in the game market today and I applaud > them for doing so. After all, we are the ones that are going to buy it > or not and they realize that. I think that this shows that they are > honest and sincere about what they are doing. This is obviously a > labor of love for them (as others have mentioned) and they are not > going to release it until they feel that it's just right. That tells > me that they aren't in it for the quick buck -- they are in it for the > love of sim racing. We need more developers around like the Wests. > > I think that my prior attitude was a product of the negativity here > and other places regarding the game and I blindly jumped on the > bandwagon. I had nothing to base my opinion on and I made a snap > judgment without any facts to back it up. For this I sincerely > apologize to the West brothers. I know what it is like to be working > your ass off on a project and hear someone say "You mean you aren't > finished yet? What the hell have you been doing???" and the reason you > aren't finished is because you want it to be JUST RIGHT. > > I'll be first in line to buy WSC when it comes out if for no other > reason than to say "thank you" to the Wests for their efforts. > > Todd Walker > twalker at jam dot rr dot com > http://twalker.d2g.com

"Marty U'Ren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well said and a welcome commentary on the business of sim development. > > Now before the right wing hordes reach for the reply button to praise the > god of profit, let me say profit is not the problem. Profit is good. > Profit is the food that feeds the beast that is business. The problem is > with the beast. No, don't kill the beast...the beast is good too. But it > is a beast. I love analogies. : )

Capitalist swine!

In article <[email hidden]>, Todd Walker <[email hidden]> writes <snip> >I got a personal email from Chris West that was completely sincere and >the tone was one of someone who was geniunely concerned about >producing a quality product. This tells me many things. First of all, >they are watching this forum and taking the response to WSC to heart. In some ways it's great to hear that they are listening to the hardcore element of sim racing such as ourselves, but in others it worries me a little. After the poor sales performance of GPL that catered directly to the hardcore sim racer I am hoping that WSC doesn't end up going the same way and, when it is finally released, turns out to be just too difficult to get into unless you devote many, many hours to it. As much as I am looking forward to this title I am also hoping that it is successful enough to encourage many add-ons, follow-ups, ugrades etc in the future. Does anyone know whether they are intending to allow those not-so-skilled individuals (not myself of course :)) to want to rush out and buy this title along with the rest of us? <snip> -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -2.26

One feature GPL could have used to make it easier & more fun for "the-less-than-hardcore" racer is a GHOST mode. GPL is great game, but GPL-GHOST MODE would be the ultimate! Hope WSC has this feature. Makes learning the tracks fun; also allows you to see where you are faster & slower than other drivers. I used to play Mario-Kart for SNES 10hrs a day on Ghost-mode alone! > Does anyone know whether they are intending to allow those > not-so-skilled individuals (not myself of course :)) to want to rush out > and buy this title along with the rest of us?

"Andy Straw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Quite, gives me some time to finish work on my GPLRank before starting > work on WSCrank from scratch! WS CRANK? dave henrie

"Andrew S" > > is a beast. I love analogies. : ) > Are you kidding me? I had to get shots and pills to stop the scratching and wheezing from all the analogies I had as a kid... dh > Capitalist swine! > >

Anyone who wants to get a feel for the Wests' method, check out the archived radio show they did a while back- 4 1/2 hours worth! Long download, sound is poor, but well worth it for a look into what the project is about, in their own words. The tone taken by the brothers is a model for careful consideration and open process. They are impressive. http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/games/gameguides/ In article <[email hidden]>, Marty U'Ren <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Well said and a welcome commentary on the business of sim development. > > The West brothers are a breath of fresh air even without seeing the full > fruits of their labors. But there seems to be another component operating > here...the business climate they are working in. > > I'm quite sure they are not the only talented sim developers who care > about the quality the end result and what the users have to say about it. > Software is developed in a business culture who's values are defined by > those of the owners of the capital that fuels it. While values in business > vary widely it should be obvious that customer satisfaction is all too > often just marketing hype. 'Suits', who know little of the product or the > customer, call the shots for corporate stockholders who know and care even > less. It's ALL about profit. > > Now before the right wing hordes reach for the reply button to praise the > god of profit, let me say profit is not the problem. Profit is good. > Profit is the food that feeds the beast that is business. The problem is > with the beast. No, don't kill the beast...the beast is good too. But it > is a beast. I love analogies. : ) > > Papyrus appears to be a good example of talented passionate people who > initially created the best stuff without a corporate yoke. Indy 500 was a > break through sim. But, as is all too common, they are no longer masters > of their own destiny. Sierra calls the shots. God knows if they will ever > let Papy do another open wheel sim, wallowing in the profits of the Nascar > market. > > So let's enjoy watching the Wests create from passion and > integrity...while it lasts. > > Marty > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > One of my philosophies in life has been to speak my mind when I feel > > strongly about something but also to be prepared to admit that I am > > wrong if necessary. I spoke my mind about WSC a couple of days ago and > > I am here now to admit that I was wrong. > > > > I got a personal email from Chris West that was completely sincere and > > the tone was one of someone who was geniunely concerned about > > producing a quality product. This tells me many things. First of all, > > they are watching this forum and taking the response to WSC to heart. > > Second, they are willing to listen and provide feedback when > > necessary. That means that when the game is released we can expect > > more of the same. What more can you expect? This kind of attention to > > the end users is unheard of in the game market today and I applaud > > them for doing so. After all, we are the ones that are going to buy it > > or not and they realize that. I think that this shows that they are > > honest and sincere about what they are doing. This is obviously a > > labor of love for them (as others have mentioned) and they are not > > going to release it until they feel that it's just right. That tells > > me that they aren't in it for the quick buck -- they are in it for the > > love of sim racing. We need more developers around like the Wests. > > > > I think that my prior attitude was a product of the negativity here > > and other places regarding the game and I blindly jumped on the > > bandwagon. I had nothing to base my opinion on and I made a snap > > judgment without any facts to back it up. For this I sincerely > > apologize to the West brothers. I know what it is like to be working > > your ass off on a project and hear someone say "You mean you aren't > > finished yet? What the hell have you been doing???" and the reason you > > aren't finished is because you want it to be JUST RIGHT. > > > > I'll be first in line to buy WSC when it comes out if for no other > > reason than to say "thank you" to the Wests for their efforts. > > > > Todd Walker > > twalker at jam dot rr dot com > > http://twalker.d2g.com

Gotta agree on this one - GPL has to be the most under-rated car games^H^H^H^H^H simulations ever. Hamish Strong "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On the contrary, I hope that it IS just like GPL as far as difficulty > goes. Why? Because I want it to be as accurate as a computer sim can > possibly be and if it's too easy then it ain't real, because real > racing is DIFFICULT. I really REALLY hope they don't dumb it down in > order to increase sales or cater to the lowest common denominator. > > Todd Walker > twalker at jam dot rr dot com > http://twalker.d2g.com > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 01:29:27 +0100, Peter Ives > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In some ways it's great to hear that they are listening to the hardcore > >element of sim racing such as ourselves, but in others it worries me a > >little. After the poor sales performance of GPL that catered directly > >to the hardcore sim racer I am hoping that WSC doesn't end up going the > >same way and, when it is finally released, turns out to be just too > >difficult to get into unless you devote many, many hours to it. As much > >as I am looking forward to this title I am also hoping that it is > >successful enough to encourage many add-ons, follow-ups, ugrades etc in > >the future. Does anyone know whether they are intending to allow those > >not-so-skilled individuals (not myself of course :)) to want to rush out > >and buy this title along with the rest of us? >

OMG this has too be the all time Winner! Dave H! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA "Dave Henrie" wrote: | | "Andrew S" > > is a beast. I love analogies. : ) | > | Are you kidding me? I had to get shots and pills to stop the scratching | and wheezing from all the analogies I had as a kid... | dh

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:svGO6.45462$[email hidden]...

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> > "Andy Straw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Quite, gives me some time to finish work on my GPLRank before starting > > work on WSCrank from scratch! > WS CRANK? > dave henrie > >

Friends don't let friends WS Crank. KFG

On 22 May 2001 16:04:08 +0200, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: >> Didn't GPal have screenshots of its menu system? :) > >Now, that's NASTY! Expect a howling cry from somewhere in the >Netherlands :) Nah, I've got GEM+ now, my life is complete :) Andre >-- >Olav K. Malmin >remove .spam when replying

On Tue, 22 May 2001 19:58:14 GMT, [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote: >It's not background work; it's foreground work. If you played GPL with >little boxes on a flat-shaded track, it would still feel great. But >look awful. The other way round is a bit easier; have great models, >render them with all your builtin options on, and the audience is more >easily convinced. Why do I immediately think of SoS'37? I really wanted that one because it looked gorgeous on the screenshots.. (and because the ads told me it had 'real life physics'.. the lying bastards :) Andre

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>I too play a bit along with that game; having good graphics certainly >helps in drawing attention, but the majority of the work, I'd say even >90% if not more, is done in non-graphics sections. > > >Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 >Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ >Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

On Wed, 23 May 2001 07:36:10 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>On Tue, 22 May 2001 19:58:14 GMT, [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) >wrote: > >>It's not background work; it's foreground work. If you played GPL with >>little boxes on a flat-shaded track, it would still feel great. But >>look awful. The other way round is a bit easier; have great models, >>render them with all your builtin options on, and the audience is more >>easily convinced. > >Why do I immediately think of SoS'37? I really wanted that one because >it looked gorgeous on the screenshots.. (and because the ads told me >it had 'real life physics'.. the lying bastards :)

Perhaps it was programmed on Mars and those were really 'real life physics'. :) It seems CJGT gets you better results, but I won't invest in it no more. Unless I can just pluck out some models or tracks. ;-) But indeed, the gfx and GPL-in-the-back-of-your-mind was enough to have me buy it without looking further. Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

In article <RBwO6.1960$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes: >>"skeeter" <[email hidden]> wrote >> Pardon my ignorance but what is the WSC that you speak of? > >It's the second coming of the Christ ;-) Then I *won't* see it...I'm an atheist...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <RBwO6.1960$[email hidden]>, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >>"skeeter" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> Pardon my ignorance but what is the WSC that you speak of? > > > >It's the second coming of the Christ ;-) > > Then I *won't* see it...I'm an atheist...<g> > > Eldred

What a shame, now they'll have to rename the "St Eldred's Cup"

In article <[email hidden]>, Todd Walker <[email hidden]> writes >On the contrary, I hope that it IS just like GPL as far as difficulty >goes. Why? Because I want it to be as accurate as a computer sim can >possibly be and if it's too easy then it ain't real, because real >racing is DIFFICULT. I really REALLY hope they don't dumb it down in >order to increase sales or cater to the lowest common denominator. > Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I too want it to be as realistic, if not moreso, as GPL. However, the learning curve for GPL was one of the factors that seemed to contribute to its lack of sales as many were put off by the immediate difficulty of the sim. What I was suggesting was that they had *also* catered for those who wanted to just jump in and race which would hopefully generate more sales making it potentially more of a long-term sim (not just a one-off) that would benefit all types of racer. Personally, I would only be playing it at full realism, but there are those (less fortunate) who are put off by this kind of realism and the last thing I would want to see is another great sim being burnt sales- wise because it hadn't thought of the larger buying public who just want a quick fix.

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> >On Wed, 23 May 2001 01:29:27 +0100, Peter Ives ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>In some ways it's great to hear that they are listening to the hardcore >>element of sim racing such as ourselves, but in others it worries me a >>little. After the poor sales performance of GPL that catered directly >>to the hardcore sim racer I am hoping that WSC doesn't end up going the >>same way and, when it is finally released, turns out to be just too >>difficult to get into unless you devote many, many hours to it. As much >>as I am looking forward to this title I am also hoping that it is >>successful enough to encourage many add-ons, follow-ups, ugrades etc in >>the future. Does anyone know whether they are intending to allow those >>not-so-skilled individuals (not myself of course :)) to want to rush out >>and buy this title along with the rest of us? >

-- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -2.26

In article <nuQO6.20218$[email hidden]>, "Gault" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Then I *won't* see it...I'm an atheist...<g> >> >> Eldred > >What a shame, now they'll have to rename the "St Eldred's Cup" Ironic, ain't it? :-) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c0e28f$c8f0d140$c6d2fc3f@packardbell... > You know if I was the West Brothers, I would be thinking, with all the > garbage that has been slung around here, of just keeping my mouth shuttill > the product is done andout the door. I hope they do not, but many of the > people here just are not satified with anything. You want info, you want a > demo, you want this in the game that in the game, you end up asking for a > different game in the end. > > West Brothers if Todd is correct and you are reading over these, keepgoing > I am sure it will be a great game/sim, and I will be waiting at EB when I > hear its coming my way. > > Dave Robinson >All this public ass kissing is kind of nauseating.

Confucius say: he who kisses "her" ass will get more ass then others :-) Ooops sorry wrong NG.. hahahahaha "rik anthrax" wrote: | All this public ass kissing is kind of nauseating.