"Bottom LIne" on GF3 and N4/GPL

Here's my "opinion" (and my opinion only) on the question: Do I need/want a GF3 video card if I primarily run N4 (or insert GPL...or both)? Answer: No.....! Unless you have built your own computer, understand fully how to control the FSB and system bus/AGP bus specs.....have a library of tech manuals at your disposal, have at least 5,000 "video card tech help sites" bookmarked........ DON'T EVEN THINK OF BUYING A GF3 CARD! Period. Why? 1. "If" you can get it to run at all on your system....its slower than a GF2 (ULTRA)....a lot slower! 2. There's nothing in GPL or in N4 that takes advantages of the GF3 features (that a GF2 doesn't already have). 3. FSAA (in any of the formats)....WILL SLOW YOUR FPS DOWN.....contrary to the "hype" from Nvidia about Quincx and 2x FSAA not stealing processor cycles to work. It doesn't matter if it steals them or not....it still slows your FPS (a lot). 4. And, the picture is crappy (unless you registry hack your system and turn on Anistropic Filtering....which is not active regardless of whether you "check the box" for it or not)......way too blurry and you can't read most of the race signage text. 5. The odds of anyone being happy (after spending $400 + ) with a GF3 are 0.......maybe 1%......????? 6. If you've already purchased this card.....then stick it out.....don't get frustrated......surf all the tech sites.....and some day....it might run as well as a GF2 ULTRA....but probably not. 7. If you OC your CPU......the GF3 will likely never run properly. Only those who will never OC their systems should purchase this card...and even then....its a stupid purchase at this time. After I'm done educating myself on this "tech side" of a GF3.....I'm removing it and putting my GF2 ULTRA back in my "race box." I will install the GF3 in a "test box" used only for that purpose (to test the endless series of Nvidia drivers that are sure to follow shortly....to fix the massive amount of problems this card has running in current boxes). If I've somehow been to "wishy-washy" about all of this......please send me an email and I'll try to be more "blunt" about my current opinion of this new video card from Nvidia.....lol.... Don't get me wrong......I am not a "3dfx-nazi" looking to take shots at Nvidia.........not even close. In fact, I have no "emotional" ties to either Nvidia or 3dfx........I try to reserve that stuff for things like "women" and racing! I own both cards........and if it were not for the fact that the money isn't a big deal to me.....I would promptly be returning the GF3 card.......in the same box and packing it came in (since I haven't had time to empty my trash since opening this video card and installing it......because I've been too busy trying to get my computer to work). Hope this is helpful to all of you who have not purchased, or taken delivery of this card (turn the UPS driver right around when you see him......tell him the "shipment" was a mistake.....lol). Or, check the back of your credit card for your card's Customer Service 800 telephone number....write it down. You'll be likely calling them to "dispute" the charge placed on your card for a defective product.....soon! Regards, Tom PS: If anyone manages to get more than 30 seconds of any 3D app to run...with an AGP bus speed anything different than 66 mhz....could you please email me? Thanks. PSS: Some details: ***3DMark2000 Scores*** GF2 ULTRA = 9200's GF3 = 7,000 (maybe....can only get it to complete the test "one in five" attempts). ***N4 FPS*** GF2 ULTRA = low 100's FPS (1024x16....all "eye candy on".....no AI...meaning "online racing." Get mid 70's at 1600x16) GF3 = mid 40's FPS.........turning some stuff down....and no AI. Haven't tried anything else...what's the point? ***3DMark2001*** "Who cares?"....you can't run the GF2 card because its not supported in half the tests....so you can't use this to compare the two cards. But for the sake of those "benchmark-heads"....I'm getting around 5300 for the GF3 at "test default" settings. For the tech heads: Not only is the bus clocks and DDR speeds slower in the GF3 by around 30% (vs the GF2).....the card itself is less stable at standard OC settings that work great on the GF2. AND.....you can't OC your CPU because the GF3 will not run at any AGP bus speed over "stock." So, you have a slower video card....run on a slower system.

So you are saying that the GF3 is a good deal? :) Btw, if money is no big deal to you.. I have a paypal account you are free to deposit money into if you like :) "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HybP6.30342$%[email hidden]... > Here's my "opinion" (and my opinion only) on the question: Do I need/wanta > GF3 video card if I primarily run N4 (or insert GPL...or both)? > > Answer: No.....! > > Unless you have built your own computer, understand fully how to controlthe > FSB and system bus/AGP bus specs.....have a library of tech manuals atyour

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> disposal, have at least 5,000 "video card tech help sites" > bookmarked........ > > DON'T EVEN THINK OF BUYING A GF3 CARD! Period. > > Why? > > 1. "If" you can get it to run at all on your system....its slower than a > GF2 (ULTRA)....a lot slower! > 2. There's nothing in GPL or in N4 that takes advantages of the GF3 > features (that a GF2 doesn't already have). > 3. FSAA (in any of the formats)....WILL SLOW YOUR FPS DOWN.....contrary

to

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> the "hype" from Nvidia about Quincx and 2x FSAA not stealing processor > cycles to work. It doesn't matter if it steals them or not....it still > slows your FPS (a lot). > 4. And, the picture is crappy (unless you registry hack your system and > turn on Anistropic Filtering....which is not active regardless of whether > you "check the box" for it or not)......way too blurry and you can't read > most of the race signage text. > 5. The odds of anyone being happy (after spending $400 + ) with a GF3 are > 0.......maybe 1%......????? > 6. If you've already purchased this card.....then stick it out.....don't > get frustrated......surf all the tech sites.....and some day....it might

run

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> as well as a GF2 ULTRA....but probably not. > 7. If you OC your CPU......the GF3 will likely never run properly. Only > those who will never OC their systems should purchase this card...and even > then....its a stupid purchase at this time. > > After I'm done educating myself on this "tech side" of a GF3.....I'm > removing it and putting my GF2 ULTRA back in my "race box." I will

install > the GF3 in a "test box" used only for that purpose (to test the endless > series of Nvidia drivers that are sure to follow shortly....to fix the > massive amount of problems this card has running in current boxes). > > If I've somehow been to "wishy-washy" about all of this......please sendme

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> an email and I'll try to be more "blunt" about my current opinion of this > new video card from Nvidia.....lol.... > > Don't get me wrong......I am not a "3dfx-nazi" looking to take shots at > Nvidia.........not even close. In fact, I have no "emotional" ties to > either Nvidia or 3dfx........I try to reserve that stuff for things like > "women" and racing! > > I own both cards........and if it were not for the fact that the money

isn't > a big deal to me.....I would promptly be returning the GF3 card.......inthe > same box and packing it came in (since I haven't had time to empty mytrash > since opening this video card and installing it......because I've been too > busy trying to get my computer to work). > > Hope this is helpful to all of you who have not purchased, or takendelivery

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> of this card (turn the UPS driver right around when you see him......tell > him the "shipment" was a mistake.....lol). Or, check the back of your > credit card for your card's Customer Service 800 telephone number....write > it down. You'll be likely calling them to "dispute" the charge placed on > your card for a defective product.....soon! > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: If anyone manages to get more than 30 seconds of any 3D app to > run...with an AGP bus speed anything different than 66 mhz....could you > please email me? Thanks. > > PSS: Some details: > > ***3DMark2000 Scores*** > GF2 ULTRA = 9200's > GF3 = 7,000 (maybe....can only get it to complete the test "one in five" > attempts). > > ***N4 FPS*** > GF2 ULTRA = low 100's FPS (1024x16....all "eye candy on".....no

AI...meaning > "online racing." Get mid 70's at 1600x16) > GF3 = mid 40's FPS.........turning some stuff down....and no AI. Haven't > tried anything else...what's the point? > > ***3DMark2001*** > "Who cares?"....you can't run the GF2 card because its not supported inhalf > the tests....so you can't use this to compare the two cards. But for the > sake of those "benchmark-heads"....I'm getting around 5300 for the GF3 at > "test default" settings. > > For the tech heads: Not only is the bus clocks and DDR speeds slower inthe > GF3 by around 30% (vs the GF2).....the card itself is less stable at > standard OC settings that work great on the GF2. AND.....you can't OCyour > CPU because the GF3 will not run at any AGP bus speed over "stock." So,you > have a slower video card....run on a slower system. > >

Ah... this explains the snap in the GPL CPU patch thread. Commiserations. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. Tom Pabst wrote... > <snip> > I would promptly be returning the GF3 card.......in the > same box and packing it came in (since I haven't had time > to empty my trash since opening this video card and > installing it......because I've been too busy trying to > get my computer to work).

I just finished installing my asus G3 in my system and contrary to what Tom says I had no problems what so ever. I have a 1.3 Tbird so I can't comment on bus speeds but I'm not surprised As far as being a lot slower than an ultra card I found the gf3 pretty well identical to my ultra in n4 At marty with res at 1600x1200 details max, except mirror are set to med, the framerate was 40 at the start (20 cars drawn ahead) and went up from there. With the ultra I am at 42 fps at the start so its a little faster, but certainly not way slower. I also installed the card with a fresh install of 98 which is the only way to do it right. Is the card a good value for the money? Of course not, its a boytoy. Good thing I went and tried GPL before I posted this cause its bad,real bad.You cant see the text, but when I get into drive it seems OK, but when I exit the screen goes black and it locks up, ctr alt del brings me back to the desktop and the bitter reality of it all. The geforce3 now lies on the bench unwanted scorned because it can't play a 3 year old game that I play maybe once a month. "Do I need/want a > GF3 video card if I primarily run N4 (or insert GPL...or both)? > > Answer: No.....! > > Unless you have built your own computer, understand fully how to controlthe > FSB and system bus/AGP bus specs.....have a library of tech manuals atyour

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> disposal, have at least 5,000 "video card tech help sites" > bookmarked........ > > DON'T EVEN THINK OF BUYING A GF3 CARD! Period. > > Why? > > 1. "If" you can get it to run at all on your system....its slower than a > GF2 (ULTRA)....a lot slower! > 2. There's nothing in GPL or in N4 that takes advantages of the GF3 > features (that a GF2 doesn't already have). > 3. FSAA (in any of the formats)....WILL SLOW YOUR FPS DOWN.....contrary

to

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> the "hype" from Nvidia about Quincx and 2x FSAA not stealing processor > cycles to work. It doesn't matter if it steals them or not....it still > slows your FPS (a lot). > 4. And, the picture is crappy (unless you registry hack your system and > turn on Anistropic Filtering....which is not active regardless of whether > you "check the box" for it or not)......way too blurry and you can't read > most of the race signage text. > 5. The odds of anyone being happy (after spending $400 + ) with a GF3 are > 0.......maybe 1%......????? > 6. If you've already purchased this card.....then stick it out.....don't > get frustrated......surf all the tech sites.....and some day....it might

run

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> as well as a GF2 ULTRA....but probably not. > 7. If you OC your CPU......the GF3 will likely never run properly. Only > those who will never OC their systems should purchase this card...and even > then....its a stupid purchase at this time. > > After I'm done educating myself on this "tech side" of a GF3.....I'm > removing it and putting my GF2 ULTRA back in my "race box." I will

install > the GF3 in a "test box" used only for that purpose (to test the endless > series of Nvidia drivers that are sure to follow shortly....to fix the > massive amount of problems this card has running in current boxes). > > If I've somehow been to "wishy-washy" about all of this......please sendme

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> an email and I'll try to be more "blunt" about my current opinion of this > new video card from Nvidia.....lol.... > > Don't get me wrong......I am not a "3dfx-nazi" looking to take shots at > Nvidia.........not even close. In fact, I have no "emotional" ties to > either Nvidia or 3dfx........I try to reserve that stuff for things like > "women" and racing! > > I own both cards........and if it were not for the fact that the money

isn't > a big deal to me.....I would promptly be returning the GF3 card.......inthe > same box and packing it came in (since I haven't had time to empty mytrash > since opening this video card and installing it......because I've been too > busy trying to get my computer to work). > > Hope this is helpful to all of you who have not purchased, or takendelivery

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> of this card (turn the UPS driver right around when you see him......tell > him the "shipment" was a mistake.....lol). Or, check the back of your > credit card for your card's Customer Service 800 telephone number....write > it down. You'll be likely calling them to "dispute" the charge placed on > your card for a defective product.....soon! > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: If anyone manages to get more than 30 seconds of any 3D app to > run...with an AGP bus speed anything different than 66 mhz....could you > please email me? Thanks. > > PSS: Some details: > > ***3DMark2000 Scores*** > GF2 ULTRA = 9200's > GF3 = 7,000 (maybe....can only get it to complete the test "one in five" > attempts). > > ***N4 FPS*** > GF2 ULTRA = low 100's FPS (1024x16....all "eye candy on".....no

AI...meaning > "online racing." Get mid 70's at 1600x16) > GF3 = mid 40's FPS.........turning some stuff down....and no AI. Haven't > tried anything else...what's the point? > > ***3DMark2001*** > "Who cares?"....you can't run the GF2 card because its not supported inhalf > the tests....so you can't use this to compare the two cards. But for the > sake of those "benchmark-heads"....I'm getting around 5300 for the GF3 at > "test default" settings. > > For the tech heads: Not only is the bus clocks and DDR speeds slower inthe > GF3 by around 30% (vs the GF2).....the card itself is less stable at > standard OC settings that work great on the GF2. AND.....you can't OCyour > CPU because the GF3 will not run at any AGP bus speed over "stock." So,you > have a slower video card....run on a slower system. > >

....lol....Cliff. I didn't say "money" was not a problem for me. I said, "the money"......which meant "the money I spent for the GF3 (which was not what most of you guys are spending for one) was not a problem. lol.... You might want to "post" that account number, though.....just in case there's some others on here that are independently wealthy. That, does not include me. I am only "dependently" wealthy....lol. Tom

On Thu, 24 May 2001 17:30:15 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Here's my "opinion" (and my opinion only) on the question: Do I need/want a >GF3 video card if I primarily run N4 (or insert GPL...or both)? > >Answer: No.....!<S-N-I-P> Whoa, totally shocked after I read your report.. that bad eh? I haven't read much results about the GF3, only read the propaganda, and I'm amazed that it's slower than the GFII.. isn't this just a bad driver problem? Serious, allthough I know you know a lot about computers tom, I'm having a hard time believing the GF3 is slower than the GF2. Anyway, I'm still perfectly happy with my GFII GTS card and I wasn't thinking about upgrading to a GF3.. after your post I absolutely won't :) Andre