and THIS is why the world need a new CART sim

(hopefully) without blowing the results for folks... CART RULES! dave henrie

On Sun, 27 May 2001 19:57:07 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >CART RULES! > >dave henrie >the tension at the end was very tangible. it had me climbing up the fence, er i mean, wall. that said dh, and especially considering last years result and the hype of the montoya vs greg ray battle, it certainly dents a few reputations. mind you, the new IRL spokesperson could probably get me to watch them. Regards all, istoff

Amazing result... Tony Stewart = the NASCAR driver? Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. Dave Henrie wrote... > (hopefully) > without blowing the results for folks... > > CART RULES! > > dave henrie

The thing interesting to me about the Indy 500 anymore is the fact the CART guys come in and sweep the Ignorant Racing League drivers away. ;) Top 4 today if I'm not mistaken? Congrats to Helio and Penske! Need a cloth for that egg on your face AGAIN Mr. George??? -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n_cQ6.65732$[email hidden]... > (hopefully) > without blowing the results for folks... > > CART RULES! > > dave henrie > >

Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote on 27 May 2001: > The thing interesting to me about the Indy 500 anymore is the fact > the CART guys come in and sweep the Ignorant Racing League drivers > away. ;) > > Top 4 today if I'm not mistaken?<snip> Top 5 - Junqueira was fifth. -- David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +279.42) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart sux. Vintook "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n_cQ6.65732$[email hidden]...

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> (hopefully) > without blowing the results for folks... > > CART RULES! > > dave henrie > >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Amazing result... > > Tony Stewart = the NASCAR driver? > Yes, but he used to drive for the IRL and won it's championship in 1997. He's not your typical NASCAR driver.

On 27 May 2001 23:06:20 GMT, [email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote:

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>Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote on 27 May 2001: > >> The thing interesting to me about the Indy 500 anymore is the fact >> the CART guys come in and sweep the Ignorant Racing League drivers >> away. ;) >> >> Top 4 today if I'm not mistaken? ><snip> > >Top 5 - Junqueira was fifth.

Or no finisher higher than 6th if you count Stewart... Salazar in 7th was the top current IRL driver. -John

> A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race So did TG, but the Champcar guys showed him whos race it was today. >........................Cart sux. Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series in the world. NASCAR and F1 are great series as well, but the diversity, speed, competitivness and technology of CART, and the good mix of all those elements, add up to a great great series. I am (like a lot of people), dreaming of the day that I walk into the local software store, go into the games section, and pick up a big box with the papyrus logo on it, and the title "Champcar Racing, 2002".... Yup, my dreams are small, but thet are good dreams...,.. ;-)

Too bad the best IRL finisher only ran the Indy 497.5 then... Wayne Hutchison "Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X1gQ6.35667$[email hidden]... > A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cartsux.

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> > > Vintook > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n_cQ6.65732$[email hidden]... > > (hopefully) > > without blowing the results for folks... > > > > CART RULES! > > > > dave henrie > > > > > >

SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart sux. Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the Indianapolis 500. IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In Racing." Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier better luck next year. This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next year. They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May (and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. >> CART RULES! CART doesn't suck. Neither does the IRL. Neither one rules, though, either. Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see what you really ARE made of. -- JB

I know Tony's "roots" are in single seaters, it's just he doesn't get a lot of practice at them. I mean, so CART's top team's drivers show the IRL what's what, but for Tony to take 6th and leave the entire IRL field eating his dust in his only single seater race of the year is particularly poignant, IMO. Salazar is ex-CART as well. I wonder how long this series can survive despite getting pasted in their flagship race year after year. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. Gault wrote... > <snip> > Yes, but he used to drive for the IRL and won it's championship > in 1997. He's not your typical NASCAR driver. > >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I know Tony's "roots" are in single seaters, it's just he doesn't get alot > of practice at them. > > I mean, so CART's top team's drivers show the IRL what's what, but forTony > to take 6th and leave the entire IRL field eating his dust in his only > single seater race of the year is particularly poignant, IMO. > Definitely.

Definitely.

Actually the top 6 finishers were all CART teams tho they did have one of those Taxi Cab drivers running one car. Dave Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > The thing interesting to me about the Indy 500 anymore is the fact theCART

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> guys come in and sweep the Ignorant Racing League drivers away. ;) > > Top 4 today if I'm not mistaken? > > Congrats to Helio and Penske! > > Need a cloth for that egg on your face AGAIN Mr. George??? > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ# 4395450 > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n_cQ6.65732$[email hidden]... > > (hopefully) > > without blowing the results for folks... > > > > CART RULES! > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > >

Thanks for the clarification guys =) Point remains... the IRL is nothing more than a feeder series for drivers who want to be real professionals one day ;)) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 "John Harwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 27 May 2001 23:06:20 GMT, [email hidden] (David > Buttery) wrote: > > >Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote on 27 May 2001: > > > >> The thing interesting to me about the Indy 500 anymore is the fact > >> the CART guys come in and sweep the Ignorant Racing League drivers > >> away. ;) > >> > >> Top 4 today if I'm not mistaken? > ><snip> > > > >Top 5 - Junqueira was fifth. > > Or no finisher higher than 6th if you count Stewart... > > Salazar in 7th was the top current IRL driver. > > -John

John Harwood <[email hidden]> wrote on 28 May 2001: <snip> > Salazar in 7th was the top current IRL driver. Hey - is this the same Salazar who was a not-very-good F1 driver, adn had that fight with Nelson Piquet all those years ago? -- David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +279.42) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Yup...the teams' problems were beyond their control...if TG wouldn't have let the CART guys race with them, they would have never had this problem. The problems aren't out of TG's control though. JB John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

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>SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >>A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart

sux.

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> >Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the >Indianapolis 500. > >IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and >a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with >common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No >equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with >popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most >time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In >Racing." > >Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and >Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had >to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn >their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier >better luck next year. > >This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing >performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy >and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio >Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the >race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a >victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final >laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next >year. > >They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better >spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems >they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a >better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be >intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a >race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be >seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May >(and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) >to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical >problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. > >>> CART RULES! > >CART doesn't suck. > >Neither does the IRL. > >Neither one rules, though, either. > >Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the >biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style >that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. > >Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in >your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for >all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. > >Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. > >Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. > >As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend >my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were >beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems >that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's >experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make >all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see >what you really ARE made of. > >-- JB > >

On Mon, 28 May 2001 02:50:38 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yup...the teams' problems were beyond their control...if TG wouldn't have >let the CART guys race with them, they would have never had this problem. >The problems aren't out of TG's control though. With you being so narrow-minded that your ears touch in the middle, Jesse, it just doesn't leave much room for brain cells, does it? Neither Tony George nor CART had nothing to do with any of the following: Donnie Beechler's engine problems Buddy Lazier's engine/electrical problems Eddie Cheever's engine problems Robbie Gordon's refueling problems Stephan Gregoire's oil leak Jeff Ward's halfshaft failure Davey Hamilton's engine failure Al Unser, Jr.'s encounter with the wall Scott Goodyear's encounter with the wall Frankly, CART's presence also had nothing to do with the spins by Hornish, Fisher, Witherill, and Buhl. Unfortunately, the spins by Hornish and Fisher took out Goodyear and Unser, two of the IRL's stronger contenders. The spin by Buhl was arguably one of those "that's racing" deals, and it could just as easily have happened to Castroneves, De Ferran, Andretti, or anybody else in that situation. In the end, the CART teams definitely emerged on top, but at several points throughout the race, there were several IRL regulars who were running out in front of the CART drivers. Still, it's the Indy 500, not the Indy 250 or so, and it's the results a the end that count. This year, the CART entrants really did shine. Hopefully, the IRL teams learned something today. Time will tell, I'm sure. By the way, thanks for inspiring me so -- I'm feeling so warm and fuzzy towards CART fans at the moment that I'm tempted to go delete all the developmental files I've got on my system for the CART2K and CARTCS2K conversions for F1 2000/ F1CS that I've been working on. I mean, heck, I've got IRL Heat to give me my jollies, so why should I waste my effort on a CART sim when its only going to benefit @$$#0!&$ like you? Oh, yeah, that's right -- I remember now: I'm not so narrow-minded that my ears touch. Still, that delete key is looking might attractive right now . . . >:-[ -- JB

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>JB > >John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >>SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>>A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart >sux. >> >>Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the >>Indianapolis 500. >> >>IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and >>a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with >>common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No >>equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with >>popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most >>time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In >>Racing." >> >>Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and >>Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had >>to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn >>their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier >>better luck next year. >> >>This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing >>performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy >>and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio >>Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the >>race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a >>victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final >>laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next >>year. >> >>They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better >>spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems >>they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a >>better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be >>intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a >>race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be >>seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May >>(and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) >>to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical >>problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. >> >>>> CART RULES! >> >>CART doesn't suck. >> >>Neither does the IRL. >> >>Neither one rules, though, either. >> >>Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the >>biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style >>that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. >> >>Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in >>your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for >>all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. >> >>Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. >> >>Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. >> >>As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend >>my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were >>beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems >>that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's >>experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make >>all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see >>what you really ARE made of. >> >>-- JB >> >> > >

Any given year the IRL guys could have just as easily pasted the CART drivers. But not this year. And as far as the field being level with equal cars and engines...yes and no...The CART teams don't have 7 years of data built up, they don't have 7 years of experience at the Indy track, they don't have 7 years of fine tuning the chassis's and engines...but...they DO have 7 years of competing against very equal teams of fairly good caliber. I believe it was last year's runner up(mind blank sorry) who claimed they looked at the race tapes and saw that the Ganassi team made up a ton of time in the pits... (remember too, that Cart's best Oval driver "may" be Kenny Brack who is an IRL graduate. and he wasn't there...think Ford will want to miss the party next year?) I didn't see any firm analysis, but pitstop after pitstop it was the Cart teams leaving the pitlane first. Could be just because they got in first but somebody surely will break down those numbers for review. Anyhow...my original point... :) sorry can't leave it alone... Based on how well the CART teams did with unfamiliar cars, engines, rules & the track, I was frankly amazed at the finish results. Bruno J deserves a solid pat on the back for running as well also... and finally...since the CART teams did so well and a CART sim seems out of the realm of possiblitiy right now...all we can hope for is maybe a CART vs. the IRL sim...model both sets of cars and drivers...model all the tracks...of course a black-out mode for Texas would have to be figured out...a flight simmer could write it up in minutes tho.... and then have crossover championships...can the CART guys win at the banked ovals? Can IRL drivers turn right? If this is the ONLY way to get an updated CART sim...I'll take it... dave henrie "John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 28 May 2001 02:50:38 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Yup...the teams' problems were beyond their control...if TG wouldn't have > >let the CART guys race with them, they would have never had this problem. > >The problems aren't out of TG's control though. > > With you being so narrow-minded that your ears touch in the middle, > Jesse, it just doesn't leave much room for brain cells, does it? > > Neither Tony George nor CART had nothing to do with any of the > following: > > Donnie Beechler's engine problems > Buddy Lazier's engine/electrical problems > Eddie Cheever's engine problems > Robbie Gordon's refueling problems > Stephan Gregoire's oil leak > Jeff Ward's halfshaft failure > Davey Hamilton's engine failure > Al Unser, Jr.'s encounter with the wall > Scott Goodyear's encounter with the wall > > Frankly, CART's presence also had nothing to do with the spins by > Hornish, Fisher, Witherill, and Buhl. Unfortunately, the spins by > Hornish and Fisher took out Goodyear and Unser, two of the IRL's > stronger contenders. The spin by Buhl was arguably one of those > "that's racing" deals, and it could just as easily have happened to > Castroneves, De Ferran, Andretti, or anybody else in that situation. > > In the end, the CART teams definitely emerged on top, but at several > points throughout the race, there were several IRL regulars who were > running out in front of the CART drivers. Still, it's the Indy 500, > not the Indy 250 or so, and it's the results a the end that count. > This year, the CART entrants really did shine. Hopefully, the IRL > teams learned something today. > > Time will tell, I'm sure. > > By the way, thanks for inspiring me so -- I'm feeling so warm and > fuzzy towards CART fans at the moment that I'm tempted to go delete > all the developmental files I've got on my system for the CART2K and > CARTCS2K conversions for F1 2000/ F1CS that I've been working on. I > mean, heck, I've got IRL Heat to give me my jollies, so why should I > waste my effort on a CART sim when its only going to benefit @$$#0!&$ > like you? > > Oh, yeah, that's right -- I remember now: I'm not so narrow-minded > that my ears touch. > > Still, that delete key is looking might attractive right now . . . > > >:-[ > > -- JB > > >JB > > > >John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>... > >>SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>. > >>>A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart > >sux. > >> > >>Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the > >>Indianapolis 500. > >> > >>IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and > >>a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with > >>common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No > >>equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with > >>popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most > >>time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In > >>Racing." > >> > >>Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and > >>Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had > >>to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn > >>their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier > >>better luck next year. > >> > >>This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing > >>performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy > >>and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio > >>Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the > >>race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a > >>victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final > >>laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next > >>year. > >> > >>They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better > >>spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems > >>they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a > >>better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be > >>intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a > >>race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be > >>seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May > >>(and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) > >>to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical > >>problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. > >> > >>>> CART RULES! > >> > >>CART doesn't suck. > >> > >>Neither does the IRL. > >> > >>Neither one rules, though, either. > >> > >>Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the > >>biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style > >>that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. > >> > >>Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in > >>your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for > >>all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. > >> > >>Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. > >> > >>Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. > >> > >>As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend > >>my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were > >>beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems > >>that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's > >>experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make > >>all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see > >>what you really ARE made of. > >> > >>-- JB > >> > >> > > > > >

I've got to say I pretty much agree with you, Dave. CART's larger schedule gives the teams and drivers a LOT more experience in high-pressure racing situation (both on the track and in the pits) than what most of the IRL teams get. This had a LOT to do with the overall outcome of today's race -- and I'm not just talking about the performance in the pits, either; the CART drivers did their job on the track, too. As an Indy fan, I loved this year's race. As an IRL fan, I was very disappointed by a lot of what I saw, and I would have been just as disappointed even if CART hadn't been there. Still, I have to admit that I liked seeing BOTH the IRL and CART teams at Indy. This really is how it should be, I think. As a sim fan, I would love to see BOTH an IRL and a CART sim, or one that models BOTH series. Or maybe just an Indy sim that lets you run Indy in 1995-vintage CART hardware, or 2001-vintage IRL hardware, or any of a wide variety of eras. THAT would be cool! ;-) -- JB On Mon, 28 May 2001 04:21:41 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Any given year the IRL guys could have just as easily pasted the CART >drivers. But not this year. And as far as the field being level with equal >cars and engines...yes and no...The CART teams don't have 7 years of data >built up, they don't have 7 years of experience at the Indy track, they >don't have 7 years of fine tuning the chassis's and engines...but...they DO >have 7 years of competing against very equal teams of fairly good caliber. >I believe it was last year's runner up(mind blank sorry) who claimed they >looked at the race tapes and saw that the Ganassi team made up a ton of time >in the pits... > (remember too, that Cart's best Oval driver "may" be Kenny Brack who is an >IRL graduate. and he wasn't there...think Ford will want to miss the party >next year?) >I didn't see any firm analysis, but pitstop after pitstop it was the Cart >teams leaving the pitlane first. Could be just because they got in first >but somebody surely will break down those numbers for review. > Anyhow...my original point... :) sorry can't leave it alone... Based on >how well the CART teams did with >unfamiliar cars, engines, rules & the track, I was frankly amazed at the >finish results. Bruno J deserves a solid pat on the back for running as >well also... and finally...since the CART teams did so well and a CART sim >seems out of the realm of possiblitiy right now...all we can hope for is >maybe a CART vs. the IRL sim...model both sets of cars and drivers...model >all the tracks...of course a black-out mode for Texas would have to be >figured out...a flight simmer could write it up in minutes tho.... >and then have crossover championships...can the CART guys win at the banked >ovals? Can IRL drivers turn right? If this is the ONLY way to get an >updated CART sim...I'll take it... >dave henrie > >"John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Mon, 28 May 2001 02:50:38 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> >Yup...the teams' problems were beyond their control...if TG wouldn't have >> >let the CART guys race with them, they would have never had this problem. >> >The problems aren't out of TG's control though. >> >> With you being so narrow-minded that your ears touch in the middle, >> Jesse, it just doesn't leave much room for brain cells, does it? >> >> Neither Tony George nor CART had nothing to do with any of the >> following: >> >> Donnie Beechler's engine problems >> Buddy Lazier's engine/electrical problems >> Eddie Cheever's engine problems >> Robbie Gordon's refueling problems >> Stephan Gregoire's oil leak >> Jeff Ward's halfshaft failure >> Davey Hamilton's engine failure >> Al Unser, Jr.'s encounter with the wall >> Scott Goodyear's encounter with the wall >> >> Frankly, CART's presence also had nothing to do with the spins by >> Hornish, Fisher, Witherill, and Buhl. Unfortunately, the spins by >> Hornish and Fisher took out Goodyear and Unser, two of the IRL's >> stronger contenders. The spin by Buhl was arguably one of those >> "that's racing" deals, and it could just as easily have happened to >> Castroneves, De Ferran, Andretti, or anybody else in that situation. >> >> In the end, the CART teams definitely emerged on top, but at several >> points throughout the race, there were several IRL regulars who were >> running out in front of the CART drivers. Still, it's the Indy 500, >> not the Indy 250 or so, and it's the results a the end that count. >> This year, the CART entrants really did shine. Hopefully, the IRL >> teams learned something today. >> >> Time will tell, I'm sure. >> >> By the way, thanks for inspiring me so -- I'm feeling so warm and >> fuzzy towards CART fans at the moment that I'm tempted to go delete >> all the developmental files I've got on my system for the CART2K and >> CARTCS2K conversions for F1 2000/ F1CS that I've been working on. I >> mean, heck, I've got IRL Heat to give me my jollies, so why should I >> waste my effort on a CART sim when its only going to benefit @$$#0!&$ >> like you? >> >> Oh, yeah, that's right -- I remember now: I'm not so narrow-minded >> that my ears touch. >> >> Still, that delete key is looking might attractive right now . . . >> >> >:-[ >> >> -- JB >> >> >JB >> > >> >John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >> >>SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>. >> >>>A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart >> >sux. >> >> >> >>Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the >> >>Indianapolis 500. >> >> >> >>IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and >> >>a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with >> >>common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No >> >>equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with >> >>popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most >> >>time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In >> >>Racing." >> >> >> >>Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and >> >>Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had >> >>to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn >> >>their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier >> >>better luck next year. >> >> >> >>This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing >> >>performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy >> >>and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio >> >>Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the >> >>race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a >> >>victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final >> >>laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next >> >>year. >> >> >> >>They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better >> >>spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems >> >>they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a >> >>better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be >> >>intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a >> >>race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be >> >>seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May >> >>(and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) >> >>to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical >> >>problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. >> >> >> >>>> CART RULES! >> >> >> >>CART doesn't suck. >> >> >> >>Neither does the IRL. >> >> >> >>Neither one rules, though, either. >> >> >> >>Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the >> >>biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style >> >>that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. >> >> >> >>Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in >> >>your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for >> >>all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. >> >> >> >>Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. >> >> >> >>Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. >> >> >> >>As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend >> >>my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were >> >>beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems >> >>that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's >> >>experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make >> >>all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see >> >>what you really ARE made of. >> >> >> >>-- JB >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >

Everyone needs to look back at the primary reason behind forming the IRL. It wasn't because Tony George thought that "his drivers" were better, it was to lower the overall costs of the sport, create a more level playing field and take the sport back to its roots of oval racing while opening the door for many talented young drivers to be able to compete at the greatest race in the world. Overall, outside of AJ Foyt and Menard, no other IRL teams have the financial and technological resources that ANY of the CART teams have. Penske and Ganassi could buy the entire field at the Indy 500 several times over. As any race fan knows, it is cubic dollars that translate into victory on the track these days. From having the best equipment, to being able to put together a high priced, top notch crew, we all know that Penske it number one. I myself love both of the series and soon hope to see some sort of reunion, but without sacrificing the close oval racing that has been created by the IRL. As far as I'm concerned, I would much rather watch sprint cars on a half mile dirt oval than see a CART race at Detroit.

Jason Hoehn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RkgQ6.52240$[email hidden]... " Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series in the world." American? The World is very small out there. Darko

On Sun, 27 May 2001 23:45:53 GMT, "Jason Hoehn" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series in the >world. NASCAR and F1 are great series as well, but the diversity, speed, Ooh ooh. Its raining out. Better stop the race. It is obvious that it the current CART / IRL cars can't race in the rain due to the current makeup of the car. Nobody wants to see unsafe conditions, but I think they should consider having wet weather tyres and setups as in F1. I think the strategy permutations as seen in F1 would only improve the CART series as a spectator / TV sport. Dunno what wet racing on an ovel would be like with the water streaming down the banking etc. Is it possible? I know that safety issues would have to be resolved too, but yesterday's Indy 500 with the relatively light rainfall could have been finished an hour earlier if wet weather racing with rain tyres was an option. So, with all due respect, even the procession that was the Monaco F1 makes just as entertaining TV for me as the Indy 500. I was amused by the commentators repeatedly calling Indy the 'greatest spectacle in motorsport'. Isn't that title reserved for JPM? *ducks* I am amazed by the sheer scale of the event. 400 000 people, a month of qualifying etc, but I think it is pretty much ignored by most people outside the US. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 of my friends who have ever watched it. Same goes for Le Mans, Daytona 500, Isle of Man TT, RAC Rally, Bathhurst, or whatever you care to mention. My guess for the greatest televised racing sports event would probably be something like the Tour de France, but thats just a wild guess.

istoff writes:

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> On Sun, 27 May 2001 23:45:53 GMT, "Jason Hoehn" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series in the > >world. NASCAR and F1 are great series as well, but the diversity, speed, > > Ooh ooh. Its raining out. Better stop the race. > > It is obvious that it the current CART / IRL cars can't race in the > rain due to the current makeup of the car. Nobody wants to see unsafe > conditions, but I think they should consider having wet weather tyres > and setups as in F1. I think the strategy permutations as seen in F1 > would only improve the CART series as a spectator / TV sport. Dunno > what wet racing on an ovel would be like with the water streaming down > the banking etc. Is it possible?

If you actually knew what you were talking about you would be taken a lot more serious. They race in the wet, just not on ovals since that is too dangerous. But on road and street courses a rain race is not uncommon. > I know that safety issues would have to be resolved too, but > yesterday's Indy 500 with the relatively light rainfall could have > been finished an hour earlier if wet weather racing with rain tyres > was an option. See above. With those "amateur" IRL drivers who couldn't even do a restart in the dry, image the carnage in the wet. > So, with all due respect, even the procession that was the Monaco F1 > makes just as entertaining TV for me as the Indy 500. I was amused by > the commentators repeatedly calling Indy the 'greatest spectacle in > motorsport'. Isn't that title reserved for JPM? *ducks* Agree on that one. As long as the IRL spec is run at Indy with rev-limiters, i don't se the spectacle. > I am amazed by the sheer scale of the event. 400 000 people, a month > of qualifying etc, but I think it is pretty much ignored by most > people outside the US. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 of my > friends who have ever watched it. Same goes for Le Mans, Daytona > 500, Isle of Man TT, RAC Rally, Bathhurst, or whatever you care to > mention. Pretty narrowminded... > My guess for the greatest televised racing sports event would probably > be something like the Tour de France, but thats just a wild guess. It's formula 1, but the Tour de France is also up there i guess, and it's great racing, although with limited horsepower :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

On Mon, 28 May 2001 11:05:11 +0200, istoff wrote:

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>On Sun, 27 May 2001 23:45:53 GMT, "Jason Hoehn" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series in the >>world. NASCAR and F1 are great series as well, but the diversity, speed, > >Ooh ooh. Its raining out. Better stop the race. > >It is obvious that it the current CART / IRL cars can't race in the >rain due to the current makeup of the car. Nobody wants to see unsafe >conditions, but I think they should consider having wet weather tyres >and setups as in F1. I think the strategy permutations as seen in F1 >would only improve the CART series as a spectator / TV sport. Dunno >what wet racing on an ovel would be like with the water streaming down >the banking etc. Is it possible?

Wet weather tyres and setups -- with concrete wall barriers and no runoff areas? Are you ABSOLUTELY INSANE? Even Michael Schumacher indicated that he did NOT want to try to run 220 mph+ at Indy on the oval. I don't remember his exact quote, but he basically said the oval at Indy was frightening. All ovals are like that -- and you CANNOT run on an oval in the rain. >I know that safety issues would have to be resolved too, but >yesterday's Indy 500 with the relatively light rainfall could have >been finished an hour earlier if wet weather racing with rain tyres >was an option. See the above comment. The early spins were due to cold track and tire conditions -- the track was moist after the rains, and rain tyres would NOT have helped the traction situation at all under those conditions. -- JB

John Bodin <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>...

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> I've got to say I pretty much agree with you, Dave. CART's larger > schedule gives the teams and drivers a LOT more experience in > high-pressure racing situation (both on the track and in the pits) > than what most of the IRL teams get. This had a LOT to do with the > overall outcome of today's race -- and I'm not just talking about the > performance in the pits, either; the CART drivers did their job on the > track, too.

Well the pressure situations was proved this year and last with Greg Ray stuffing his car when under pressure from a CART driver. He was not able to keep pace with Juan last year and well pulled off a similar mistake this year with Mike Andretti breathing down his neck. One thing I am glad about is that they have drivers back at Indy now. I only feel sad that my Father was not here to see the last two Indy 500s since he would have really enjoyed them. Also note Doughnuts are now out in racing and fence climbing is now in. My wife got a kick out of the Roush Crew at the Coca Cola 600. dave

On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:09:46 +0000 (UTC), "David" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Well the pressure situations was proved this year and last with Greg Ray >stuffing his car when under pressure from a CART driver. He was not able >to keep pace with Juan last year and well pulled off a similar mistake this >year with Mike Andretti breathing down his neck. Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice in consecutive years? For John B., I can see how this dismal performance by the IRL teams and drivers could bring on such a massive case of denial, but I have trouble believing that the IRL was putting on such good races *at such a high skill level* all along and then *everyone* craps out at the big race. Face it, the IRL teams and drivers are OK for what they are and can provide good entertainment (like many local short tracks), but they're minor league next to the big boys (yes, CART). Someone mentioned Winston Cup vs. Busch Grand National (which I think we can agree are at two distinctly different skill levels), but even in a Busch race you won't find the the WC guys putting on as dominant a performance as CART teams at this Indy (first through sixth). With more and more CART teams coming to the 500, it's starting to look like the party is over for the marginal IRL runners. I guess they should thank Tony G. for the five years that almost anyone was allowed to run in the "Biggest Spectacle in Racing". Just a shame that the CART teams have to invest in a totally different car/motor for one race per year. "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scared of that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining. Thanks, Alex <istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 27 May 2001 23:45:53 GMT, "Jason Hoehn" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series inthe

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> >world. NASCAR and F1 are great series as well, but the diversity, speed, > > Ooh ooh. Its raining out. Better stop the race. > > It is obvious that it the current CART / IRL cars can't race in the > rain due to the current makeup of the car. Nobody wants to see unsafe > conditions, but I think they should consider having wet weather tyres > and setups as in F1. I think the strategy permutations as seen in F1 > would only improve the CART series as a spectator / TV sport. Dunno > what wet racing on an ovel would be like with the water streaming down > the banking etc. Is it possible? > > I know that safety issues would have to be resolved too, but > yesterday's Indy 500 with the relatively light rainfall could have > been finished an hour earlier if wet weather racing with rain tyres > was an option. > > So, with all due respect, even the procession that was the Monaco F1 > makes just as entertaining TV for me as the Indy 500. I was amused by > the commentators repeatedly calling Indy the 'greatest spectacle in > motorsport'. Isn't that title reserved for JPM? *ducks* > > I am amazed by the sheer scale of the event. 400 000 people, a month > of qualifying etc, but I think it is pretty much ignored by most > people outside the US. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 of my > friends who have ever watched it. Same goes for Le Mans, Daytona > 500, Isle of Man TT, RAC Rally, Bathhurst, or whatever you care to > mention. > > My guess for the greatest televised racing sports event would probably > be something like the Tour de France, but thats just a wild guess. > >

Jeff Vincent <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:09:46 +0000 (UTC), "David" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Well the pressure situations was proved this year and last with Greg Ray > >stuffing his car when under pressure from a CART driver. He was notable > >to keep pace with Juan last year and well pulled off a similar mistakethis

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> >year with Mike Andretti breathing down his neck. > > Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to > crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice > in consecutive years? > >

No but when the pressure was on he ends up making a mistake. Dave

On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:46:03 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scared of >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining. >um. Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels. My questions have been answered and if it makes me look like a dumbass to you, thats fine by me. I've never seen a wet CART race although I have seen CART races cancelled due to weather. I can't honestly recall if it was an oval or just very bad weather on a street course or not.

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> I am amazed by the sheer scale of the event. 400 000 people, a month > of qualifying etc, but I think it is pretty much ignored by most > people outside the US. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 of my > friends who have ever watched it. Same goes for Le Mans, Daytona > 500, Isle of Man TT, RAC Rally, Bathhurst, or whatever you care to > mention. >>Pretty narrowminded...

I was referring to my friends :) And when it comes to motor-racing, I guess that's true. Most of them are more interested in Rugby, Soccer or Cricket than *any* motorsport. I guess part of it is from a shortage of exposure to these sports. We only had TV from about 1977 and decent overseas motorsports coverage is something relatively new to many South Africans. I probably now what little I do from games rather than watching it on TV. Nascar fans probably will call me crazy (or worse) when I say that I don't have a clue who 90% of the drivers in Nascar 4 are and that the first time I heard about Richard Petty was when he endorsed a game for the commodore 64. I've heard vaguely of Kyle Petty (probably via Nascar 2 or 3) and only recently heard that Adam Petty was killed. I don't mean to offend anyone, but we really don't get much exposure to Nascar on our local TV stations. Sorry to go so far off-topic and anybody wanting to argue it further can mail me instead. And finally, sorry if my original post p'd off some folks. Wasn't intentional, honest!

Hey we all have to realize that even the widest viewed racing series are at best regional markets. How many folks in the deep south of the States watch F1? If Speedvision hadn't come along(which is only available in probably 2/3rds of the US markets) I'd never have known about Touring cars, Truck Racing(the big tractor rigs) We almost NEVERused to get coverage of Motorcycle GP races...(still don't see enough outdoor motocross) SCCA races..??? not a chance...I'm sure there are tons of folks on the States side of the pond who have never heard of the great riders from the Isle of Mann TT races or the famous hallowed sports car stars of the past. Ask the average or even above average US fan to name the leaders in F3 or FIA Sportscars...I don't think you will find too many sucessful answers. So on behalf of my fellow YANKS and as ONE who sat through pouring downpours at Portland Oregon while Cart Champcars zipped around the roadcourse, I appologize for the impatience many of our fellow newsgroupers displayed. Beleive me, in these days of limited TV windows for events to be completed...I'm sure the Network Television folks would LOVE to see Nascar events run in the rain, just to make sure the dang events got finished so they could show more Golf. But at this point..with the closeness of the walls and the speeds modern cars race at...oval rain racing would be a Dale Earnhardt type tragedy every wet race. Now, we need to educate you some on American Legends...anyone know of some good sites our Euro neighbors could frequent to pick up some racing history from our side of the Atlantic? dave henrie <istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:46:03 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll > >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals > >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scaredof

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> >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining. > > > um. > > Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a > CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly > don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in > satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see > Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels. > > My questions have been answered and if it makes me look like a dumbass > to you, thats fine by me. > > I've never seen a wet CART race although I have seen CART races > cancelled due to weather. I can't honestly recall if it was an oval > or just very bad weather on a street course or not. > > > > I am amazed by the sheer scale of the event. 400 000 people, a month > > of qualifying etc, but I think it is pretty much ignored by most > > people outside the US. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 of my > > friends who have ever watched it. Same goes for Le Mans, Daytona > > 500, Isle of Man TT, RAC Rally, Bathhurst, or whatever you care to > > mention. > > >>Pretty narrowminded... > I was referring to my friends :) And when it comes to motor-racing, I > guess that's true. Most of them are more interested in Rugby, Soccer > or Cricket than *any* motorsport. I guess part of it is from a > shortage of exposure to these sports. We only had TV from about 1977 > and decent overseas motorsports coverage is something relatively new > to many South Africans. I probably now what little I do from games > rather than watching it on TV. > > Nascar fans probably will call me crazy (or worse) when I say that I > don't have a clue who 90% of the drivers in Nascar 4 are and that the > first time I heard about Richard Petty was when he endorsed a game for > the commodore 64. I've heard vaguely of Kyle Petty (probably via > Nascar 2 or 3) and only recently heard that Adam Petty was killed. I > don't mean to offend anyone, but we really don't get much exposure to > Nascar on our local TV stations. > > Sorry to go so far off-topic and anybody wanting to argue it further > can mail me instead. > > And finally, sorry if my original post p'd off some folks. Wasn't > intentional, honest! > >

"Tomlani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Everyone needs to look back at the primary reason behind forming the IRL.It > wasn't because Tony George thought that "his drivers" were better, it wasto > lower the overall costs of the sport, create a more level playing fieldand > take the sport back to its roots of oval racing while opening the door formany > talented young drivers to be able to compete at the greatest race in theworld. > Overall, outside of AJ Foyt and Menard, no other IRL teams have thefinancial > and technological resources that ANY of the CART teams have. Penske and > Ganassi could buy the entire field at the Indy 500 several times over. Asany > race fan knows, it is cubic dollars that translate into victory on thetrack > these days. From having the best equipment, to being able to put togethera > high priced, top notch crew, we all know that Penske it number one. Imyself > love both of the series and soon hope to see some sort of reunion, butwithout > sacrificing the close oval racing that has been created by the IRL. Asfar as > I'm concerned, I would much rather watch sprint cars on a half mile dirtoval > than see a CART race at Detroit. As any race fan knows Penske has more cubic dollars than anyone else yet the last time he came to Indy he failed to qualify a car. People who had mortgaged their homes to put together a single lifetime attempt to make just one Indy field got in. Penske's cubic dollars meant, and mean, squat. KFG

<istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:46:03 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll > >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals > >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scaredof

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> >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining. > > > um. > > Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a > CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly > don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in > satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see > Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels. > > My questions have been answered and if it makes me look like a dumbass > to you, thats fine by me. > > I've never seen a wet CART race although I have seen CART races > cancelled due to weather. I can't honestly recall if it was an oval > or just very bad weather on a street course or not.

Keep watching- you'll see some great CART races in the rain on both road and street courses. Just not on the ovals.

"Jeff Vincent" wrote: > Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to > crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice > in consecutive years? Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to see her do better.

Sorry but it's not that black and white Dave, it's green. You have to consider the unlimited $$$$'s available to Penske & Ganassi. I enjoy both series for what they are but as in 'all' racing series the results usually equal dollar input. A quick comparison of sponsorship in both series should give an indication of what the outcome might be. I know I wasn't surprised. I totally agree we need a new CART sim but fail to see the connection here. DN "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n_cQ6.65732$[email hidden]...

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> (hopefully) > without blowing the results for folks... > > CART RULES! > > dave henrie > >

Darko, Actually a very timely and profoundly accurate point!! | American? The World is very small out there. | Darko

istoff writes:

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> On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:46:03 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll > >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals > >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scared of > >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining. > > > um. > > Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a > CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly > don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in > satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see > Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels.

Maybe a little apology is in order from my side. If you said you thought but wasnt sure about rain racing, the facts would have presented themselves. But since you claimed and made a point out of that they did not race in the rain, it looked very much like you knew what you were talking about, but still were far out. There are too many ignorant CART bashers around. Keep watching those CART races, they are great fun. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

I still think that Ganassi and Penske's pockets have nothing to do with their performances at Indy. I think that because their drivers had never been there, they weren't as apt to make banzai moves to get ahead, rather waiting to stalk the field and wait for people to fall out. That's always Penske's style, except for 1994, when that new Ilmor made a fool out of everybody at Indianapolis... Money drives racing. Just as Penske and Ganassi have the big pockets in CART, Menard, Panther, Galles, and A.J. Foyt have the big pockets in the IRL. Lowering costs (which is the big salami of the IRL) has nothing to do with how muich money you have for R&D, testing, and other stuff (a good pit crew, driver development, etc.)... Money drives ALL kinds of racing. In sports cars, Grand-Am was singing the same song as the IRL regarding lowering costs, and Grand-Am laughed at American Le Mans when Audi started winning day-in and day-out. But at last check, the juggernaut called Dyson Racing is kicking a** and taking names later in Grand-Am. If they don't break, either #16 or #20 is in the winner's circle. They took the air restrictor loophole away, and what do they do? They win the 6 Hours at The Glen... I'm a Penske fan, and whether it's Rusty in NASCAR, Helio and Gil in CART (though I wish it was still Little Al and Emmo), or Ryan Newman in ARCA, I still root for him. Quit the damn whining and let's race for Pete's sake! As for "CART sucks," I'm a CART fan and I think some of the tracks should go, too. If they couldn't run the Texas oval, they should have run the Texas road course instead of cheating the race fan out of money. Detroit sucks, and Nazareth does, too. Ditto with that crazy new Vancouver layout. But the only IRL races I watch are Texas and Indianapolis. I don't see anything different in the IRL philosophy-wise than I do in CART. The deep pockets will always win, and when they don't, someone comes along and gets a fluke win...

On 28 May 2001 19:56:20 +0200, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote:

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>istoff writes: > >> On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:46:03 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll >> > >> um. >> >> Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a >> CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly > >Maybe a little apology is in order from my side. If you said you >thought but wasnt sure about rain racing, the facts would have >presented themselves. But since you claimed and made a point out of >that they did not race in the rain, it looked very much like you >knew what you were talking about, but still were far out. There are >too many ignorant CART bashers around.

hi, I reread my post and I see what you mean. Sorry Olav & Alex for sounding off a bit. I guess i didn't make my point very clear *or* give some background to where my lack of CART knowledge came from. That said though, I enjoy being enlightened and/or corrected by fellow R.A.S'ers as it makes me enjoy these sports so much more. I certainly don't want to become like some people here who dig themselves deeper and deeper into holes and end up not being taken seriously. > >Keep watching those CART races, they are great fun.Well, I managed to see Jacques Villeneuve dueling the Penskes at Elkhart Lake and Indianapolis (both in 95, I think). He won both races in a thrilling display. I got the feeling that the car he drove that year (Ganassi? Blue Car, Players was the sponsor, i think) wasn't as good as the Penskes of Al Unser Jr, Emerson Fittipaldi and um er, Paul Tracy? Anyway. I thoroughly enjoyed those battles as well as the points finish at Laguna Seca which I think was the title clincher, although he didn't win the race. I think the only reason they showed some of those races was Nigel Mansell's participation which had heightened interest in the sport for F1 fans. Once they introduced satellite tv in SA and ESPN was introduced, regular non-satellite folks like myself got cut off from the whole CART / IRL split and subsequent seasons. I remember going into a sports bar one sunday night as they normally played ESPN. Just my luck that some Karaoke twit set up and started a show for the evening and I gave up watching race with the sound off. Its pretty hard to follow an oval race with no sound and especially harder if you don't know the cars. I had a relatively current ICR2 raceset and I probably could have studied beforehand, had I known. :) This year i have satellite and I have already watched 1 or 2 CART races. I hope I can catch some Nascar as well, just to be able to follow some of the talk and maybe I'll enjoy Nascar 4 more. I bought N4 and F1RC the same week and haven't given N4 much attention. Regards all, istoff

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jeff Vincent) writes:

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>On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:09:46 +0000 (UTC), "David" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Well the pressure situations was proved this year and last with Greg Ray >>stuffing his car when under pressure from a CART driver. He was not able >>to keep pace with Juan last year and well pulled off a similar mistake this >>year with Mike Andretti breathing down his neck. > > Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to >crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice >in consecutive years?

Nope - Sarah Fisher crashed in both races, too... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Question kiddiez' & no BS... Do you think Sarah Fischer will have the arm, leg, body power to last a 500mile'r? I'm not belittling ladies but it seems when it comes to long endurance and constant heavy weighted pressure would be tuff on her. Curious minds would like to know! :o) "Gault" wrote: | Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she | seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to | see her do better.

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PxvQ6.33308$[email hidden]...

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> > "Jeff Vincent" wrote: > > > Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to > > crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice > > in consecutive years? > > Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she > seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to > see her do better. > >

Hot tip, keep your eye open for the name " Vanina Ickx." She looks like her dads little girl, which, surprisingly, turns out to be a good thing, but more important she's GOOD and agressive enough that I wouldn't want to meet her alone in a dark alley. I'll go out on a limb and put my money on her being a legitimate world class contender. I'm doing pretty good with these predictions lately. My last picks were Greg Moore when he was running his family owned car in Indy Lights, and JPM and HCN when they were driving Barber Dodge. KFG

"Sundown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I still think that Ganassi and Penske's pockets have nothing to do with > their performances at Indy. I think that because their drivers had never > been there, they weren't as apt to make banzai moves to get ahead, rather > waiting to stalk the field and wait for people to fall out. That's always > Penske's style, except for 1994, when that new Ilmor made a fool out of > everybody at Indianapolis... > > Money drives racing. Just as Penske and Ganassi have the big pockets in > CART, Menard, Panther, Galles, and A.J. Foyt have the big pockets in the > IRL. Lowering costs (which is the big salami of the IRL) has nothing to do > with how muich money you have for R&D, testing, and other stuff (a good

pit

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> crew, driver development, etc.)... > > Money drives ALL kinds of racing. In sports cars, Grand-Am was singing the > same song as the IRL regarding lowering costs, and Grand-Am laughed at > American Le Mans when Audi started winning day-in and day-out. But at last > check, the juggernaut called Dyson Racing is kicking a** and taking names > later in Grand-Am. If they don't break, either #16 or #20 is in the

winner's

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> circle. They took the air restrictor loophole away, and what do they do? > They win the 6 Hours at The Glen... > > I'm a Penske fan, and whether it's Rusty in NASCAR, Helio and Gil in CART > (though I wish it was still Little Al and Emmo), or Ryan Newman in ARCA, I > still root for him. Quit the damn whining and let's race for Pete's sake! > > As for "CART sucks," I'm a CART fan and I think some of the tracks should > go, too. If they couldn't run the Texas oval, they should have run the

Texas > road course instead of cheating the race fan out of money. Detroit sucks, > and Nazareth does, too. Ditto with that crazy new Vancouver layout. Butthe > only IRL races I watch are Texas and Indianapolis. I don't see anything > different in the IRL philosophy-wise than I do in CART. The deep pockets > will always win, and when they don't, someone comes along and gets a fluke > win... > > I remember the days when Roger was a driver. People like to forget that Penske has the sponsorship dollars because he was a proven winner *before* he had money. Mark Donohue ascribed the success of Penske racing to one thing, car preperation and professionalism. Two, Two things. Car preperation, professionalsim and an almost fantatical devotion to the. . . . Oh, sorry. You get my point. KFG

On 28 May 2001 20:19:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jeff >Vincent) writes: > >> Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to >>crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice >>in consecutive years? > >Nope - Sarah Fisher crashed in both races, too... :(

Hmmm, I obviously phrased that poorly. My point was Greg making contact twice *each* year. In 2000 he hit the wall solo twice in separate incidents, this year he hit the wall, then collected Jon Herb a few laps later. That's a little excessive, no? I was impressed with Greg with what he did with nothing when he started. But now that he has one of the best cars under him, he seems to think that he can beat anyone or drives it into the wall trying. "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

On Mon, 28 May 2001 17:03:43 GMT, "Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she >seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to >see her do better. Talking about Sarah, it's funny how her interview on the 2001 500 telecast almost made it sound (reading between the lines) like her 2000 Indy 500 appearance wasn't much more than a publicity stunt (from memory): "Everything was hurry, rush-rush, it happened so fast. I hadn't run many races. I was overwhelmed by it all...". "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Vanina Ickx?! Doesn't she run Formula Ford? She would be a GREAT driver in either CART or the IRL...and she's hot, too... ; ) SD

"Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 28 May 2001 20:19:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden](Jeff

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> >Vincent) writes: > > > >> Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to > >>crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice > >>in consecutive years? > > > >Nope - Sarah Fisher crashed in both races, too... :( > > Hmmm, I obviously phrased that poorly.

Maybe not- I thought you might mean that but wasn't sure. Don't have the answer to that one. :-/

"Sundown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Vanina Ickx?! Doesn't she run Formula Ford? She would be a GREAT driver in > either CART or the IRL...and she's hot, too... ; ) > > SD She's in pro FF2000 at the moment, obviously looking to get into the upper echelons of American single seater racing, but she has fairly extensive experience in European endurance sports car racing. Yes, she is pretty hot, which I find odd considering how much she looks like her father, who definately was not. KFG

You missed my underlying message...You are right...they had nothing to do with it directly. I was talking more indirectly...but you knew that already. Mechanical failures are terrible...encounters with walls are terrible. I guess the racing gods singled out one group on Sunday. It seems a bit odd for luck to only strike one group, but thats how the cookie crumbles. Better luck next year. Sorry for the narrow mindedness. IRL rox, Cart sux...it was all luck. (is that what you wanted to hear?) JB John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

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>On Mon, 28 May 2001 02:50:38 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>Yup...the teams' problems were beyond their control...if TG wouldn't have >>let the CART guys race with them, they would have never had this problem. >>The problems aren't out of TG's control though. > >With you being so narrow-minded that your ears touch in the middle, >Jesse, it just doesn't leave much room for brain cells, does it? > >Neither Tony George nor CART had nothing to do with any of the >following: > >Donnie Beechler's engine problems >Buddy Lazier's engine/electrical problems >Eddie Cheever's engine problems >Robbie Gordon's refueling problems >Stephan Gregoire's oil leak >Jeff Ward's halfshaft failure >Davey Hamilton's engine failure >Al Unser, Jr.'s encounter with the wall >Scott Goodyear's encounter with the wall > >Frankly, CART's presence also had nothing to do with the spins by >Hornish, Fisher, Witherill, and Buhl. Unfortunately, the spins by >Hornish and Fisher took out Goodyear and Unser, two of the IRL's >stronger contenders. The spin by Buhl was arguably one of those >"that's racing" deals, and it could just as easily have happened to >Castroneves, De Ferran, Andretti, or anybody else in that situation. > >In the end, the CART teams definitely emerged on top, but at several >points throughout the race, there were several IRL regulars who were >running out in front of the CART drivers. Still, it's the Indy 500, >not the Indy 250 or so, and it's the results a the end that count. >This year, the CART entrants really did shine. Hopefully, the IRL >teams learned something today. > >Time will tell, I'm sure. > >By the way, thanks for inspiring me so -- I'm feeling so warm and >fuzzy towards CART fans at the moment that I'm tempted to go delete >all the developmental files I've got on my system for the CART2K and >CARTCS2K conversions for F1 2000/ F1CS that I've been working on. I >mean, heck, I've got IRL Heat to give me my jollies, so why should I >waste my effort on a CART sim when its only going to benefit @$$#0!&$ >like you? > >Oh, yeah, that's right -- I remember now: I'm not so narrow-minded >that my ears touch. > >Still, that delete key is looking might attractive right now . . . > >>:-[ > >-- JB > >>JB >> >>John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >>>SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>>A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart >>sux. >>> >>>Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the >>>Indianapolis 500. >>> >>>IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and >>>a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with >>>common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No >>>equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with >>>popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most >>>time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In >>>Racing." >>> >>>Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and >>>Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had >>>to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn >>>their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier >>>better luck next year. >>> >>>This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing >>>performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy >>>and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio >>>Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the >>>race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a >>>victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final >>>laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next >>>year. >>> >>>They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better >>>spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems >>>they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a >>>better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be >>>intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a >>>race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be >>>seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May >>>(and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) >>>to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical >>>problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. >>> >>>>> CART RULES! >>> >>>CART doesn't suck. >>> >>>Neither does the IRL. >>> >>>Neither one rules, though, either. >>> >>>Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the >>>biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style >>>that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. >>> >>>Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in >>>your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for >>>all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. >>> >>>Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. >>> >>>Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. >>> >>>As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend >>>my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were >>>beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems >>>that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's >>>experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make >>>all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see >>>what you really ARE made of. >>> >>>-- JB >>> >>> >> >> >

And BTW, thanks for calling me an asshole. GJ on that. And I think you pride yourself on the ears touching analogy. GJ on that one. You are very clever. Good work on IRL heat. Have fun with that. I don't see what you have against CART, but have fun with that. Im glad your ears don't touch in the middle. And I am glad you are the supreme being that gets to decide which people have ears that touch...because you seem to know it all when it comes to the spacing of ears. GJ with that. JB

"Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5dFQ6.91664$[email hidden]... > > "Sundown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Vanina Ickx?! Doesn't she run Formula Ford? She would be a GREAT driverin

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> > either CART or the IRL...and she's hot, too... ; ) > > > > SD > > She's in pro FF2000 at the moment, obviously looking to get into the upper > echelons of American single seater racing, but she has fairly extensive > experience in European endurance sports car racing. > > Yes, she is pretty hot, which I find odd considering how much she looks

like > her father, who definately was not. Does this concern you? Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-) -Gault (who thinks she's pretty good looking too)

On Tue, 29 May 2001 03:16:08 GMT, "Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote: It was unfortunate that in 2000's Indy Sarah and Lynn St James both got taken out in the same incident. I think it was Sarah's mistake as she was lapping Lynn. I believe Sarah was running in the top 20 at the time. I saw the highlights of the race in a pub and people were making lots of "women driver" jokes. I wonder how hard it is for a woman to actually *get* a drive and make the start of Indy. My admiration goes out to them both.

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> >"Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On 28 May 2001 20:19:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >> >> >In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] >(Jeff >> >Vincent) writes: >> > >> >> Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to >> >>crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice >> >>in consecutive years? >> > >> >Nope - Sarah Fisher crashed in both races, too... :( >> >> Hmmm, I obviously phrased that poorly. > >Maybe not- I thought you might mean that but wasn't sure. Don't have the >answer to that one. :-/ >

Regards all, istoff

On Tue, 29 May 2001 04:27:42 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You missed my underlying message...You are right...they had nothing to do >with it directly. I was talking more indirectly...but you knew that >already. Maybe I did miss the underlying message, but in my original message, I made it a point to commend and congratulate the CART participants for their outstanding performance, yet the way I interpreted it, you seemed to indicate that Tony George was somehow to blame for the IRL's woes. Did I miss something, or did I mis-interpret that? >Mechanical failures are terrible...encounters with walls are >terrible. I guess the racing gods singled out one group on Sunday. It >seems a bit odd for luck to only strike one group, but thats how the cookie >crumbles. Better luck next year. Sorry for the narrow mindedness. IRL >rox, Cart sux...it was all luck. (is that what you wanted to hear?) Not at all -- why does either one have to fall into the "sux" category? BOTH series feature some excellent talent, and both series put on good races. Anybody who can drive an open-wheeler at 200+ mph is a real driver, and anybody who can do that in competition is a true professional. Why bash either series? Many of the IRL teams should have performed better than they did at Indy. Some of it was bad luck, some of it was complacency, and some of it was just plain stupid. The teams will either figure it out for themselves, or they'd better find another line of work. No matter what the reasons, though, if Tony George had attempted to lock out CART entrants (as I think you're suggesting), it would NOT have helped the IRL teams one bit. Indy is all about racing, but there's a bit of Darwinism to be found there, too -- basically, only the strong survive at Indy, and a lot of the IRL teams didn't manage that this year. Personally, I have nothing against CART -- if I did, I wouldn't be helping out on TWO (2) CART sims (well, three actually -- CART2K for F1 2000, CARTCS2K for F1CS, and CART Heat for NASCAR Heat). It's the politics behind the whole IRL/CART controversy that I hate. As for Tony George, he gave us MORE open-wheel, Indy-style racing when he formed the IRL, and that rates as a good thing in my book. CART chose not to participate in either the IRL races or the Indy 500 back when the IRL and CART had common engine and chassis formulas (the 25/8 rule at Indy was an attempt to encourage CART teams to participate in two (2) events prior to Indy: Phoenix and Walt Disney World). CART decided to effectively boycotted Indy, though, skipping Phoenix (where they had raced previously) and Walt Disney World, and thus leaving themselves at the mercy of the 25/8 rule at Indy -- they claimed they were locked-out, but it was a boycott, no matter how you slice it. Then the IRL engine and chassis formula diverged the next year independent of CART's decisions, because they had made themselves perfectly clear when they boycotted Indy. And ever since that time, the IRL has fallen into the "sux" category, and Tony George has been cast as the "great Satan" of motorsports. I have trouble with that, given what Tony George has done for racing in general -- if it weren't for him, there would be no Brickyard 400, and there would be no U.S. Grand Prix at Indy. Quite an accomplishment, I would say -- thanks to him, Indianapolis IS the "Racing capital of the world.". This year at Indy for the 500, though, the IRL teams at Indy did NOT cover themselves with glory, and the CART teams excelled. It's as simple as that -- some luck may have been involved, and some unfortunate circumstances may have occurred, but either way, I won't attempt to sugar-coat it. But it's ABSOLUTELY wrong to blame Tony George for any of the IRL's woes. Would you have him reinstate the 25/8 rule again? Frankly, I hated that rule, and I thought this year's field was the most competitive Indy field in a long, long time (since well before the CART era, in fact). If the problems that exist aren't out of Tony George's control, you can also say that the problems that exist aren't beyond CART's control either. Open-wheel racing is suffering in this country -- CART has no identity, and both CART and the IRL is suffering because the split is also driving sponsors (and sponsors' dollars) away from the open-wheel segment of motorsports. Cooperation is the answer -- the time to lay blame is past, and there really is no blame to lay, frankly. The IRL's formula has proven it's worth, and CART is now on the brink of moving in that direction, to provide commonality between both series -- and hopefully cooperation, cross-promotion, and shared marketing. Then again, I get the feeling that there IS no animosity among people like Tony George, Roger Penske, and Chip Ganassi, or most of the teams and drivers in either CART or the IRL. That sort of thing seems to be reserved for the "fans," and I use that term loosely. -- JB

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>JB > >John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >>On Mon, 28 May 2001 02:50:38 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> >>wrote: >> >>>Yup...the teams' problems were beyond their control...if TG wouldn't have >>>let the CART guys race with them, they would have never had this problem. >>>The problems aren't out of TG's control though. >> >>With you being so narrow-minded that your ears touch in the middle, >>Jesse, it just doesn't leave much room for brain cells, does it? >> >>Neither Tony George nor CART had nothing to do with any of the >>following: >> >>Donnie Beechler's engine problems >>Buddy Lazier's engine/electrical problems >>Eddie Cheever's engine problems >>Robbie Gordon's refueling problems >>Stephan Gregoire's oil leak >>Jeff Ward's halfshaft failure >>Davey Hamilton's engine failure >>Al Unser, Jr.'s encounter with the wall >>Scott Goodyear's encounter with the wall >> >>Frankly, CART's presence also had nothing to do with the spins by >>Hornish, Fisher, Witherill, and Buhl. Unfortunately, the spins by >>Hornish and Fisher took out Goodyear and Unser, two of the IRL's >>stronger contenders. The spin by Buhl was arguably one of those >>"that's racing" deals, and it could just as easily have happened to >>Castroneves, De Ferran, Andretti, or anybody else in that situation. >> >>In the end, the CART teams definitely emerged on top, but at several >>points throughout the race, there were several IRL regulars who were >>running out in front of the CART drivers. Still, it's the Indy 500, >>not the Indy 250 or so, and it's the results a the end that count. >>This year, the CART entrants really did shine. Hopefully, the IRL >>teams learned something today. >> >>Time will tell, I'm sure. >> >>By the way, thanks for inspiring me so -- I'm feeling so warm and >>fuzzy towards CART fans at the moment that I'm tempted to go delete >>all the developmental files I've got on my system for the CART2K and >>CARTCS2K conversions for F1 2000/ F1CS that I've been working on. I >>mean, heck, I've got IRL Heat to give me my jollies, so why should I >>waste my effort on a CART sim when its only going to benefit @$$#0!&$ >>like you? >> >>Oh, yeah, that's right -- I remember now: I'm not so narrow-minded >>that my ears touch. >> >>Still, that delete key is looking might attractive right now . . . >> >>>:-[ >> >>-- JB >> >>>JB >>> >>>John Bodin wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >>>>SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!! >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>>A Cart sim???? I thought it was an IRL race........................Cart >>>sux. >>>> >>>>Actually, it was an IRL-sanctioned race, but above all, it was the >>>>Indianapolis 500. >>>> >>>>IRL teams and drivers showed up, CART teams and drivers showed up, and >>>>a NASCAR driver even showed up. It was a level playing field with >>>>common engine and chassis rules, and parity across the board: No >>>>equivalency formulas, no factory engine customers, no tampering with >>>>popoff valves -- just a level playing field for the richest and most >>>>time-honored race in the world . . . truly, "The Greatest Spectacle In >>>>Racing." >>>> >>>>Last year, the IRL teams and drivers -- especially Buddy Lazier and >>>>Hemelgarn Racing -- put up a good show against the best that CART had >>>>to offer, and Juan Montoya and Target/Chip Ganassi Racing had to earn >>>>their victory. I cheered for Montoya at the end, and wished Lazier >>>>better luck next year. >>>> >>>>This year, the IRL teams and drivers put forth a disappointing >>>>performance almost across the board. Roger Penske returned to Indy >>>>and claimed his 11th victory there, fair and square -- and Helio >>>>Castroneves earned his way to victory lane in Indy. Helio won the >>>>race, climbed the fence, drank the milk, kissed the bricks, then did a >>>>victory lap ON TOP of the pace thing. I cheered for him in the final >>>>laps of the race, and wished all the IRL regulars better luck next >>>>year. >>>> >>>>They'd better have more than just luck, though -- they had better >>>>spend the next 365 days asking themselves why they had the problems >>>>they did, and they had better find the answers in time to put forth a >>>>better effort at Indy next year. The IRL regulars should be >>>>intimately familiar with what it takes to put prepare an IRL car for a >>>>race, and even in a 500-miler like Indy, the IRL teams should NOT be >>>>seeing so many mechanical gremlins -- they had the entire month of May >>>>(and all of last season, plus the three races before Indy this year) >>>>to figure these things out, but only one CART team had mechanical >>>>problems in cars that they had only seen once or twice before. >>>> >>>>>> CART RULES! >>>> >>>>CART doesn't suck. >>>> >>>>Neither does the IRL. >>>> >>>>Neither one rules, though, either. >>>> >>>>Today, Helio Castroneves is the one who rules -- he has won the >>>>biggest, richest open-wheel race of the year, and he did it with style >>>>that few other winners have exhibited. Ditto Team Penske. >>>> >>>>Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in >>>>your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for >>>>all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. >>>> >>>>Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. >>>> >>>>Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. >>>> >>>>As for the IRL regulars, all I can say is that I would like to extend >>>>my condolences to those who were plagued with problems that were >>>>beyond their control today. For those who were plagued by problems >>>>that should have been within your control, though, I hope that today's >>>>experience lights a fire under you so you can figure out how to make >>>>all the inherent talent that is there gel, so that we can truly see >>>>what you really ARE made of. >>>> >>>>-- JB >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >

On Tue, 29 May 2001 04:39:31 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>And BTW, thanks for calling me an asshole. GJ on that. And I think you >pride yourself on the ears touching analogy. GJ on that one. You are very >clever. Good work on IRL heat. Have fun with that. I don't see what you >have against CART, but have fun with that. Im glad your ears don't touch in >the middle. And I am glad you are the supreme being that gets to decide >which people have ears that touch...because you seem to know it all when it >comes to the spacing of ears. GJ with that. > >JB

And why exactly do you think I have something against CART? Did you miss this in my original message: >>CART doesn't suck. Or this: >>Congratulations, Helio -- now maybe you can put the hyphen back in >>your name. If your face is going to be on the Borg-Warner trophy for >>all time, the least they can do is let you spell your name right. Or maybe this: >>Congratulations to Roger, and congratulations to Gil as well. And I supose you missed this as well: >>Congratulations to Target/Chip Ganassi racing, too. That's called giving credit where credit is due -- and the CART participants at Indy deserved credit for what they accomplished, because they came to Indy and excelled, plain and simple. It was the fastest 33 qualifiers, straight up, and the CART entrants were the class of the field at the end of the day. They earned the victory at Indy, plain and simple, and the IRL teams were either outclassed or unlucky -- or most likely a weird mix of both. Regardless, next year's 500 is going to be even more exciting, and I can hardly wait. Anyway, as I said in a separate response, I personally have nothing against CART -- if I did, I wouldn't be helping out on TWO (2) CART sims (well, three actually -- CART2K for F1 2000, CARTCS2K for F1CS, and CART Heat for NASCAR Heat). It's the politics behind the whole IRL/CART controversy that I hate. Thanks for dragging politics into my attempt to be gracious towards CART teams and their fans. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Unfortunately, there always seems to be someone ready and waiting to drag out the politics and stir the pot, no matter how gracious others on either side of the fence try to be. And that's when I can tell that the ears are starting to touch, in my book, in case you're wondering. >:-/ -- JB

The stamina is there for sure... already a winner of the Spa 24h. She's magic in the wet as well. Chip of the ol' block as they say. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. Kevin Gavitt wrote...

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> <snip> > Hot tip, keep your eye open for the name " Vanina Ickx." > > She looks like her dads little girl, which, surprisingly, > turns out to be a good thing, but more important she's > GOOD and agressive enough that I wouldn't want to meet > her alone in a dark alley. > > I'll go out on a limb and put my money on her being a > legitimate world class contender. > > I'm doing pretty good with these predictions lately. My > last picks were Greg Moore when he was running his > family owned car in Indy Lights, and JPM and HCN when > they were driving Barber Dodge. > > KFG

On Tue, 29 May 2001 06:31:08 GMT, [email hidden] (John Bodin) wrote:

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>As for Tony George, he gave us MORE open-wheel, Indy-style racing when >he formed the IRL, and that rates as a good thing in my book. CART >chose not to participate in either the IRL races or the Indy 500 back >when the IRL and CART had common engine and chassis formulas (the 25/8 >rule at Indy was an attempt to encourage CART teams to participate in >two (2) events prior to Indy: Phoenix and Walt Disney World). CART >decided to effectively boycotted Indy, though, skipping Phoenix (where >they had raced previously) and Walt Disney World, and thus leaving >themselves at the mercy of the 25/8 rule at Indy -- they claimed they >were locked-out, but it was a boycott, no matter how you slice it.

They didn't participate at Indy in '96 because *Tony changed the rules* (requiring participation in other events or restricting series non-participants at Indy). >Then the IRL engine and chassis formula diverged the next year >independent of CART's decisions, because they had made themselves >perfectly clear when they boycotted Indy. Again, Tony changed the rules and made it more difficult for CART teams to enter.

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> And ever since that time, >the IRL has fallen into the "sux" category, and Tony George has been >cast as the "great Satan" of motorsports. I have trouble with that, >given what Tony George has done for racing in general -- if it weren't >for him, there would be no Brickyard 400, and there would be no U.S. >Grand Prix at Indy. Quite an accomplishment, I would say -- thanks to >him, Indianapolis IS the "Racing capital of the world.".

But what has he done for open wheel (Championship) racing? There is general agreement that "the split" has damaged open wheel racing. And who initiated the split? Who, seemingly at every turn, has made moves to advance his own series and make it harder for CART to participate or even survive? For instance, the "traditional" month of May. Before the split, CART lobbied to shorten Indy and Tony resisted, citing tradition (not to mention $$$ in his pocket). When the IRL failed to fill the stands through the month, then tradition was out the window and a shorter schedule was instituted. With Ganassi/Montoya dominating in 2000, I guess one weekend of qualifying was a bit two easy (for CART to participate), so Tony added the third day back on for 2001, straddling Motegi.

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>This year at Indy for the 500, though, the IRL teams at Indy did NOT >cover themselves with glory, and the CART teams excelled. It's as >simple as that -- some luck may have been involved, and some >unfortunate circumstances may have occurred, but either way, I won't >attempt to sugar-coat it. But it's ABSOLUTELY wrong to blame Tony >George for any of the IRL's woes. Would you have him reinstate the >25/8 rule again? Frankly, I hated that rule, and I thought this >year's field was the most competitive Indy field in a long, long time >(since well before the CART era, in fact).

Since Tony created the IRL and controls it and funds it, just who would be most responsible? >If the problems that exist aren't out of Tony George's control, you >can also say that the problems that exist aren't beyond CART's control >either. Open-wheel racing is suffering in this country -- CART has no >identity, and both CART and the IRL is suffering because the split is >also driving sponsors (and sponsors' dollars) away from the open-wheel >segment of motorsports. Oddly enough, in spite of the turmoil in CART's organizational and promotional branches (and Tony setting up a rival league), some of the racing is the best ever, with more parity, bigger fields, better chassis and engine supplies, more different winners... Again, in spite of Tony, the split, and the loss of Indy. Just think where CART would be if Tony had not changed the rules... :( >Cooperation is the answer -- the time to lay blame is past, and there >really is no blame to lay, frankly. The IRL's formula has proven it's >worth, and CART is now on the brink of moving in that direction, to >provide commonality between both series -- and hopefully cooperation, >cross-promotion, and shared marketing. If Tony wants to cooperate, and wants to keep the IRL intact, why not make a fourth Indy race, for the CART cars? It would be more money in his pocket. The obvious answer is that it would be good for CART and would lower the status of the Indy 500 even lower than it has sunken since the split. And he can't do that, since the Indy 500 is the only 800 pound gorilla in the IRL's corner. >Then again, I get the feeling that there IS no animosity among people >like Tony George, Roger Penske, and Chip Ganassi, or most of the teams >and drivers in either CART or the IRL. That sort of thing seems to be >reserved for the "fans," and I use that term loosely. When I see Tony's actions (like blowing off the meeting with engine manufacturers last year or the year before), I can't muster any other interpretation. "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

In article <[email hidden]>, Ian <[email hidden]> writes: >I wonder how hard it is for a woman to actually *get* a drive and make >the start of Indy. My admiration goes out to them both. Apparently easier than for a black driver to get a drive. First woman Indy driver(Janet Guthrie, 1977). Two since - Lyn St. James and Sarah Fisher. First black Indy driver - Willy T. Ribbs, 1991 - none since... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oPGQ6.34424$[email hidden]...

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> > "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5dFQ6.91664$[email hidden]... > > > > "Sundown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Vanina Ickx?! Doesn't she run Formula Ford? She would be a GREAT

driver > in > > > either CART or the IRL...and she's hot, too... ; ) > > > > > > SD > > > > She's in pro FF2000 at the moment, obviously looking to get into theupper

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> > echelons of American single seater racing, but she has fairly extensive > > experience in European endurance sports car racing. > > > > Yes, she is pretty hot, which I find odd considering how much she looks > like > > her father, who definately was not. > > Does this concern you? Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-) > > -Gault (who thinks she's pretty good looking too) > >

Concern? No. Intrigue? Yes. It isn't the fact that she is rather pretty that intrigues me. Rather it's that she looks SO much like her father, who was, to be generous, rather odd looking, and YET is rather pretty. I suppose I can contrast this to Liv Tyler, who is pretty because, thank GOD, she looks *nothing* like her father. As a race fan what concerns me is that wrapped from head to toe in nomex, wearing a full face helmet, stuffed into a car so that all we can see of her is the top of her head and how she drives she's just frikkin' *beautiful.* KFG

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The stamina is there for sure... already a winner of the Spa 24h. She's > magic in the wet as well. Chip of the ol' block as they say. > > Jan. > =--- > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. I once typed a couple of sentences in VROC chat praising Gurney, to which someone responded, " You're American, arn't you?" : ) Ok, to be serious, there are those drivers who I watch drive and can see "something," I don't know what. Artistry, flair, magic. Something. Only twice before have I seen this in a driver that I had NO previous knowledge of before the first time I saw them drive. The first was Mark Donohue. I had never heard of him before, in fact I had no knowledge of autoracing at all at the time, yet I was captivated by his performance. It made me a racing fan in the first place. The second was Greg Moore. I had pretty much ignored racing for a few years until I happened to catch an Indy Lights race on the tube. I had to become a race fan again just to follow his career. Now there are three. Vanina has " it," whatever "it" is. Where "it" will take her is another story. Amon oozed it, and yet he never won a GP. Although watching him drive sometimes you didn't care WHAT place he was in. Still, If I had to put my money on someone right now I'd put it on Vanina without blinking twice. She's magic. KFG

In article <Q%mQ6.312684$[email hidden]>, "Darko Juvan" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > Jason Hoehn <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RkgQ6.52240$[email hidden]... > > " Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series in > the > world." > > American? The World is very small out there.

Countries in which CART races: United States Canada Mexico Japan Australia Brazil (ok, they missed this year) and starting next year England Germany Not as many as F1, I suppose, but certainly a World Championship by any reasonable standard. Marc

"Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MZRQ6.7211$[email hidden]...

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> > "Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oPGQ6.34424$[email hidden]... > > > > "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:5dFQ6.91664$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Sundown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Vanina Ickx?! Doesn't she run Formula Ford? She would be a GREAT > driver > > in > > > > either CART or the IRL...and she's hot, too... ; ) > > > > > > > > SD > > > > > > She's in pro FF2000 at the moment, obviously looking to get into the > upper > > > echelons of American single seater racing, but she has fairly

extensive > > > experience in European endurance sports car racing. > > > > > > Yes, she is pretty hot, which I find odd considering how much shelooks

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> > like > > > her father, who definately was not. > > > > Does this concern you? Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-) > > > > -Gault (who thinks she's pretty good looking too) > > > > > > Concern? No. Intrigue? Yes. > > It isn't the fact that she is rather pretty that intrigues me. Rather it's > that she looks SO much like her father, who was, to be generous, rather

odd

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> looking, and YET is rather pretty. > > I suppose I can contrast this to Liv Tyler, who is pretty because, thank > GOD, she looks *nothing* like her father. > > As a race fan what concerns me is that wrapped from head to toe in nomex, > wearing a full face helmet, stuffed into a car so that all we can see of

her > is the top of her head and how she drives she's just frikkin' *beautiful.* Yep. You've probably seen Sanna Pinola too, I imagine. http://www.sannapinola.com/

"Marc Fraioli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9f0ut1$f5u$[email hidden]...

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> In article <Q%mQ6.312684$[email hidden]>, > "Darko Juvan" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > Jason Hoehn <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:RkgQ6.52240$[email hidden]... > > > > " Actually, CART (specifically Champcar) RULES. the best racing series

in

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> > the > > world." > > > > American? The World is very small out there. > > Countries in which CART races: > > United States > Canada > Mexico > Japan > Australia > Brazil (ok, they missed this year) > > and starting next year > > England > Germany

Actually England and Germany start this year. Germany on September 15, 2001 at the Lausitzring and England on September 22nd at Rockingham Speedway in Corby. (great... 2 tracks in the world named Rockingham now :-) full CART schedule at http://www.cart.com/TVSchedule.asp

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:y4YQ6.36496$[email hidden]... > > > Yep. You've probably seen Sanna Pinola too, I imagine. > http://www.sannapinola.com/ > > Ah, no, I havn't followed F3 for the past couple of years. I'll have to keep an eye out. I was also keeping an eye out for Danica Patrick who had moved from karts to F Vauxhall, but havn't heard anything from her in a while. www.danicaracing.com/home.html Her web site went up in '98 and was never even really finished, let alone maintained. Any Brits out there with any news? KFG

In article <y4YQ6.36496$[email hidden]>, "Gault" <[email hidden]> writes: >Yep. You've probably seen Sanna Pinola too, I imagine. >http://www.sannapinola.com/ > Server not found... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <8kYQ6.36507$[email hidden]>, "Gault" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > "Marc Fraioli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9f0ut1$f5u$[email hidden]... >> In article <Q%mQ6.312684$[email hidden]>, >> "Darko Juvan" <[email hidden]> writes: >> > >> > American? The World is very small out there. >> >> Countries in which CART races: >> >> United States >> Canada >> Mexico >> Japan >> Australia >> Brazil (ok, they missed this year) >> >> and starting next year >> >> England >> Germany > > Actually England and Germany start this year. Germany on September 15, 2001 > at the Lausitzring and England on September 22nd at Rockingham Speedway in > Corby. (great... 2 tracks in the world named Rockingham now :-) > > full CART schedule at http://www.cart.com/TVSchedule.asp

Oh, ok, even better then. :) Marc

> > Actually England and Germany start this year. Germany on September 15,2001 > > at the Lausitzring and England on September 22nd at Rockingham Speedwayin > > Corby. (great... 2 tracks in the world named Rockingham now :-) > > > > full CART schedule at http://www.cart.com/TVSchedule.asp > > Oh, ok, even better then. :) You betcha! :-)

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <y4YQ6.36496$[email hidden]>, "Gault" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Yep. You've probably seen Sanna Pinola too, I imagine. > >http://www.sannapinola.com/ > > > > Server not found...

Strange...just worked for me. Maybe try this one http://www.sannapinola.com/main.htm

She has done it before, Why not again? Oh yeah, she is getting old. LOL W "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5oBQ6.12038$[email hidden]...

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> Question kiddiez' & no BS... Do you think Sarah Fischer will have the > arm, leg, body power to last a 500mile'r? I'm not belittling ladies but it > seems when it comes to long endurance and constant heavy weighted > pressure would be tuff on her. Curious minds would like to know! :o) > > "Gault" wrote: > | Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she > | seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like

to > | see her do better. > > >

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5oBQ6.12038$[email hidden]... > Question kiddiez' & no BS... Do you think Sarah Fischer will have the > arm, leg, body power to last a 500mile'r? I'm not belittling ladies but it > seems when it comes to long endurance and constant heavy weighted > pressure would be tuff on her. Curious minds would like to know! :o) > I think Susan Butcher has won the Iditarod dogsled race SIX times, and Shauna Hogan has placed in the top three overall more than once in the Race Across America. I could also point out that the first person to successfully swin the English Channel, Gertrude Edderly, was a women. I have no illusions with regard to women being cabable of great feats of strength and indurance. KFG

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iedR6.38745$[email hidden]...

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> > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <y4YQ6.36496$[email hidden]>, "Gault" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Yep. You've probably seen Sanna Pinola too, I imagine. > > >http://www.sannapinola.com/ > > > > > > > Server not found... > > Strange...just worked for me. Maybe try this one > http://www.sannapinola.com/main.htm > >

Worked for me as well.

"Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OoeR6.101745$[email hidden]... > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5oBQ6.12038$[email hidden]... > > Question kiddiez' & no BS... Do you think Sarah Fischer will have the > > arm, leg, body power to last a 500mile'r? I'm not belittling ladies butit > > seems when it comes to long endurance and constant heavy weighted > > pressure would be tuff on her. Curious minds would like to know! :o) > > > > I think Susan Butcher has won the Iditarod dogsled race SIX times, and > Shauna Hogan has placed in the top three overall more than once in theRace

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> Across America. > > I could also point out that the first person to successfully swin the > English Channel, Gertrude Edderly, was a women. > > I have no illusions with regard to women being cabable of great feats of > strength and indurance.

Well, endurance certainly

I was just wondering.. No more.. No less!!.. "Wayne Bradley" wrote: | She has done it before, Why not again? Oh yeah, she is getting old. LOL | | W

Kevin I think I detailed my question incorrectly!! I guess what I was really asking was: Sarah seems very' petite & small boned so I was only curious in this regard of the long 500 mile races with Gforces, strength after a 500 miler and would her endurance hold up week after week? Kinda dumb question I guess now that I look back..lol.. Sorry bout dat!! "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: | I think Susan Butcher has won the Iditarod dogsled race SIX times, and | Shauna Hogan has placed in the top three overall more than once in theRace

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| Across America. | | I could also point out that the first person to successfully swin the | English Channel, Gertrude Edderly, was a women. | | I have no illusions with regard to women being cabable of great feats of | strength and indurance. | | KFG

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BXeR6.15474$[email hidden]... > Kevin I think I detailed my question incorrectly!! I guess what I wasreally > asking was: Sarah seems very' petite & small boned so I was only curious > in this regard of the long 500 mile races with Gforces, strength after a500 > miler and would her endurance hold up week after week? > Kinda dumb question I guess now that I look back..lol.. Sorry bout dat!! > Well, I might ask why you don't ask the same question about the current crop of 5'4" 125 lb. male single seater pilots? KFG

"Gault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gueR6.38894$[email hidden]... > > > > I have no illusions with regard to women being cabable of great feats of > > strength and indurance. > > Well, endurance certainly > Or indurance, as the case may be. : ) I need to fire my copy editor. If you think it dosn't take a fair amount of strength to wrestle a dog sled or swim the channel I challenge you to do it. I'd also point out that the most feared allied fighter squadron of WWII was a group composed entirely of Russian women. It took a fair amount of endurance, strength and. . . balls. . . to hurl a Yak, alone, into a squadron of 30 Me109s, bring down several of them, and escape unharmed. I've also seen a number of women on ESPN who look like they could break the strongest guy I know between two fingers. KFG

In article <iedR6.38745$[email hidden]>, "Gault" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <y4YQ6.36496$[email hidden]>, "Gault" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >Yep. You've probably seen Sanna Pinola too, I imagine. >> >http://www.sannapinola.com/ >> > >> >> Server not found... > >Strange...just worked for me. Maybe try this one >http://www.sannapinola.com/main.htm >

Ah, the joys of different DNS server paths...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Ah, the joys of different DNS server paths...<g> No kidding... seems to be a constant source of frustration.

LOL Kevin!! I dont know did'lee about pilots or aviation!! hahaha "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: | Well, I might ask why you don't ask the same question about the currentcrop | of 5'4" 125 lb. male single seater pilots? | KFG

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Q6kR6.15938$[email hidden]...

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> LOL Kevin!! I dont know did'lee about pilots or aviation!! hahaha > > "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: > | Well, I might ask why you don't ask the same question about the current > crop > | of 5'4" 125 lb. male single seater pilots? > | KFG > > >

That's Euro slang for *driver.* : ) KFG

Ooops!! Color me stupid then!! ..<G>...lol "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: | That's Euro slang for *driver.* : ) | KFG

Ooops!! Color me stupid then!! ..<G>...lol | That's Euro slang for *driver.* : ) | KFG

In article <kIgR6.38950$[email hidden]>, "Gault" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Ah, the joys of different DNS server paths...<g> > >No kidding... seems to be a constant source of frustration. >It worked with the other path. Standardized computing my FOOT...sigh. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <kngR6.102010$[email hidden]>, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'd also point out that the most feared allied fighter squadron of WWII was >a group composed entirely of Russian women. It took a fair amount of >endurance, strength and. . . balls. . . to hurl a Yak, alone, into a >squadron of 30 Me109s, bring down several of them, and escape unharmed. No kidding? I've never heard of them. But then again, I prefer reading about the Pacific campaign... I'll forgo the obvious joke about Russian 'women'...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu, 31 May 2001 05:46:55 GMT, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:Q6kR6.15938$[email hidden]... >> LOL Kevin!! I dont know did'lee about pilots or aviation!! hahaha >> >> "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: >> | Well, I might ask why you don't ask the same question about the current >> crop >> | of 5'4" 125 lb. male single seater pilots? >> | KFG >> >> >> > >That's Euro slang for *driver.* : )

Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and they work great with my GeForce256 card! ;-) -- JB

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <kngR6.102010$[email hidden]>, "KevinGavitt" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I'd also point out that the most feared allied fighter squadron of WWIIwas > >a group composed entirely of Russian women. It took a fair amount of > >endurance, strength and. . . balls. . . to hurl a Yak, alone, into a > >squadron of 30 Me109s, bring down several of them, and escape unharmed. > > No kidding? I've never heard of them. But then again, I prefer readingabout > the Pacific campaign... > I'll forgo the obvious joke about Russian 'women'...<g> > > Eldred > -- Well damn, why do you think I went to all the trouble to post about it? I was obviously trolling for such jokes. Check out the Russian 586th Fighter regiment. It's founder Major Marina Raskova was killed in combat in 1943 and received the first state funeral granted by the Russians since the begining of the war. Check out the 588th Night Bomber unit as well. These women flew night bombing raids, in the Russian winter, in surplus * open cockpit* planes. Truely remarkable, thus I have remarked on it. Never underestimate a babushka defending the homeland. KFG

"John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 31 May 2001 05:46:55 GMT, "Kevin Gavitt" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:Q6kR6.15938$[email hidden]... > >> LOL Kevin!! I dont know did'lee about pilots or aviation!! hahaha > >> > >> "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: > >> | Well, I might ask why you don't ask the same question about the

current

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> >> crop > >> | of 5'4" 125 lb. male single seater pilots? > >> | KFG > >> > >> > >> > > > >That's Euro slang for *driver.* : ) > > Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest > NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and > they work great with my GeForce256 card! > > ;-) > > -- JB

There's one in every crowd. Usually it's *me!* KFG

John Bodin wrote: > > Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest > NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and > they work great with my GeForce256 card! They really make it fly, eh? -- Fester

This is getting just plane silly. "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > John Bodin wrote: > > > > Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest > > NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and > > they work great with my GeForce256 card! > > > They really make it fly, eh? > > -- > > Fester

Hey Kevin... These babushkas, do they go vertically or horizontally? Now really think about the question before you answer since you're trolling... hahahaha <G> <reluctantly snipped> | Truely remarkable, thus I have remarked on it. Never underestimate a | babushka defending the homeland. | | KFG

Rob Adams wrote: > > This is getting just plane silly. Take off! -- Fester > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > John Bodin wrote: > > > > > > Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest > > > NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and > > > they work great with my GeForce256 card! > > > > > > They really make it fly, eh? > > > > -- > > > > Fester

Is this IFR or VFR?? huh? huh? :-) ok ok I know a little about flying..lol | John Bodin wrote: | Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest | NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and | they work great with my GeForce256 card!

HWGA on the puns and antonyms, synonyms etc.. hahaha "Rob Adams" wrote: | This is getting just plane silly.

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:11zR6.19213$[email hidden]...

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> Hey Kevin... These babushkas, do they go vertically or horizontally? > Now really think about the question before you answer since you're > trolling... hahahaha <G> > > <reluctantly snipped> > | Truely remarkable, thus I have remarked on it. Never underestimate a > | babushka defending the homeland. > | > | KFG >

Hey, why should DGF and Greg Cisko have all the fun? By the way, they Immelman. KFG

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RyzR6.19301$[email hidden]...

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> Is this IFR or VFR?? huh? huh? :-) ok ok I know a little about flying..lol > > | John Bodin wrote: > | Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest > | NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and > | they work great with my GeForce256 card! > > >

And the Russian women flying those open cockpit bombers in the winter for the first time experienced the Brrrr Newly principle. KFG

In article <OLyR6.14193$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>This is getting just plane silly. > >"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> John Bodin wrote: >> > >> > Really? Well, let me just say that I definitely prefer the latest >> > NVidia pilots -- I received a large fps boost after upgrading, and >> > they work great with my GeForce256 card! >> >> >> They really make it fly, eh? >>

Keep THAT up and someone's gonna clip your wings...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <40yR6.21588$[email hidden]>, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> writes: >There's one in every crowd. > >Usually it's *me!* > >KFG > It still IS, Kevin... :) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <E9xR6.110851$[email hidden]>, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> writes: >Well damn, why do you think I went to all the trouble to post about it? I >was obviously trolling for such jokes. >I'll save the jokes for Belgium on Saturday...<g> >Check out the Russian 586th Fighter regiment. It's founder Major Marina >Raskova was killed in combat in 1943 and received the first state funeral >granted by the Russians since the begining of the war. > >Check out the 588th Night Bomber unit as well. These women flew night >bombing raids, in the Russian winter, in surplus * open cockpit* planes. Oh, MAN. I will look those up - thanks. > >Truely remarkable, thus I have remarked on it. Never underestimate a >babushka defending the homeland. <g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

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> In article <kIgR6.38950$[email hidden]>, "Gault" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >> Ah, the joys of different DNS server paths...<g> > > > >No kidding... seems to be a constant source of frustration. > > > It worked with the other path. > Standardized computing my FOOT...sigh.

What excactly do you mean by DNS server path? -- -asbjxrn

Peeeeee Uuuuuuuu Ur digging deep now!! hahaha "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: | And the Russian women flying those open cockpit bombers in the winter for | the first time experienced the Brrrr Newly principle. | KFG

Peeeeee Uuuuuuuu Ur digging deep now!! hahaha | And the Russian women flying those open***pit bombers in the winter for | the first time experienced the Brrrr Newly principle. | KFG

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes:

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>[email hidden] (EldredP) writes: > >> In article <kIgR6.38950$[email hidden]>, "Gault" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >> Ah, the joys of different DNS server paths...<g> >> > >> >No kidding... seems to be a constant source of frustration. >> > >> It worked with the other path. >> Standardized computing my FOOT...sigh. > >What excactly do you mean by DNS server path?

DNS stands for Domain Name Service. That's how your computer knows where to look to find a webpage, ftp server, or any other resource on the net. You have to be able to 'resolve' the path. If your system(or one in between) doesn't know how to get to the destination, you get the 'not found' error. Sometimes typing in the site address(numbers) will work when the numbers don't. Sometimes(as in this case for me) the same website typed as a 'root' worked, whereas the page originally given couldn't be found by my computer. I'm sure I've made it sound more confusing than it is...sorry. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes: > > > >What excactly do you mean by DNS server path? > > DNS stands for Domain Name Service. > That's how your computer knows where to look to find a webpage, ftp > server, or any other resource on the net. You have to be able to > 'resolve' the path. If your system(or one in between) doesn't know > how to get to the destination, you get the 'not found' error.

Oh, I know what DNS is and how it works. But server path? There aren't really any server paths in DNS, except the one from root-server to authorative server. But that is not something you set up. Are you confusing DNS and routing perhaps? -- -asbjxrn

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes: >Oh, I know what DNS is and how it works. >But server path? There aren't really any server paths in DNS, >except the one from root-server to authorative server. But that >is not something you set up. >Are you confusing DNS and routing perhaps? Ok, I stated it wrong. I should have said 'routing'...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.