GPL BRM advice

I'm trying to get some practice in other cars. To me, the BRM is almost *undriveable*. My Ferrari rank is +29.02, but the BRM is +99.30. How do you guys DO it? I tried running some laps at Watkins last night. For about 6 laps in a row, every time I downshifted for the 90, the car spun out. Also, do you look at the extra gear as an extra low gear, or an extra high gear? Thanks. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> I'm trying to get some practice in other cars. To me, the BRM is almost > *undriveable*. This car and the honda both must be kept in the higher rpm range, that's all you need to know. >every time I downshifted for the 90, the car spun out. Ok. I've been using Alison's setups for the honda and brm, and she insists on having a very low first gear for both these cars, and I was seeing exactly the same problem as you are, such that I was scared to downshift to 1st, thus lugging the engine in 2nd, and I couldn't beat 8:35 with these two cars for love or money. Finally I raised 1st gear a notch or two and started using it in slow corners, took 10seconds off my ring times almost immediately. rms [email hidden]

There are people that claims BRM is one of the easiest cars in GPL. I disagree. The car is so hard to drive that you'd really expect quick lap times in return. This car is a practical joke. It is hard to drive, it feels fast, but is amazingly slow. When I first tried to drive the BRM, I did extactly the same as you: Spun when downshifting. After moving the brake balance towards the rear, I spun less. The BRM has so much weight over its rear wheels that it needs heavier brake effect at the rear than most other cars. In addition, I learned that if I downshifted slowly, the risk of spinning would decrease. Initially, I regarded the extra gear as - an extra gear. I did my gear ratios as I do with any other car. Then I found that by doing so, lot's of time were lost by excessive gearshifting. I then realized that the extra gear should be used as an extra *low* gear, only to be used at the start of after complete stops. Even though the BRM is the worst car in GPL, I actually like it. Once I was able to do fairly consistent laps in it, I realized that this car is fun to drive. As an extra bonus, the rest of the cars seemed easier to drive after I had tried the BRM. Jon Andersen > I'm trying to get some practice in other cars. To me, the BRM is almost > *undriveable*. My Ferrari rank is +29.02, but the BRM is +99.30. How doyou > guys DO it? I tried running some laps at Watkins last night. For about 6laps > in a row, every time I downshifted for the 90, the car spun out. > Also, do you look at the extra gear as an extra low gear, or an extra high > gear? > Thanks. > > Eldred

>"Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote > There are people that claims BRM is one of the easiest cars in GPL. I > disagree. The car is so hard to drive that you'd really expect quick lap > times in return. This car is a practical joke. It is hard to drive, itfeels > fast, but is amazingly slow. Not only that, but I get messed up with my gear changes all the time. I always mix up the gears I'm downshifting into :) (taking a glimpse at the gear shifter). It's a boat, it's tank, no it's a BRM! -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wICS6.12107$[email hidden]... > >"Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Not only that, but I get messed up with my gear changes all the time. I > always mix up the gears I'm downshifting into :) (taking a glimpse at the > gear shifter). > The gears confuse me, too. I crash because I'm staring at the stupid shifter trying to figure out what gear I'm in. Huttu drives a 1:04.78 in the BRM at the Glen. --Jeff

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: I can't claim to be fast at all in the BRM, or any other car (GPLRank about +40 in the Honda), but I'm trying something here.. > I'm trying to get some practice in other cars. To me, the BRM is almost > *undriveable*. My Ferrari rank is +29.02, but the BRM is +99.30. How do you > guys DO it? I think basically by being very careful with the back of the car - in practice I power-steer less with the BRM than some other cars. I'm also being particularly careful in the parts of the circuits that have sudden elevation changes. > I tried running some laps at Watkins last night. For about 6 laps > in a row, every time I downshifted for the 90, the car spun out. > Also, do you look at the extra gear as an extra low gear, or an extra high > gear? For me it becomes an extra high gear, because with the BRM one absolutely has to keep the engine in very high revs. -- J. Sakari Salonen / ssalonen(at)cc.helsinki.fi

I find the BRM a sod to drive. I sometimes wonder if it was really as hard as this as: 1. During the '67 season (as the car in GPL and not the Lotus-BRM) it managed to come 5th 5 times and at Le Man, Stewart drove it to 3rd place. 2. At Goodwood each year racing with cars of similar class and year it always does well Makes you wonder, eh? Alan

In article <9ff0kp$472$[email hidden]>, "Jeffrey Rowe" <[email hidden]> writes: >The gears confuse me, too. I crash because I'm staring at the stupid shifter >trying to figure out what gear I'm in. > >Huttu drives a 1:04.78 in the BRM at the Glen. Maybe, but he's not of this world - didn't you KNOW that?<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <j1CS6.5488$[email hidden]>, "Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> writes: >There are people that claims BRM is one of the easiest cars in GPL. I >disagree. The car is so hard to drive that you'd really expect quick lap >times in return. This car is a practical joke. It is hard to drive, it feels >fast, but is amazingly slow. > I'm guessing that the people who say that are good enough to take advantage of its 'quirks'. I'm not. There are guys in my leagues who can use the BRM, and still be 3-4 seconds faster than me using ANY car.

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>When I first tried to drive the BRM, I did extactly the same as you: Spun >when downshifting. > >After moving the brake balance towards the rear, I spun less. The BRM has so >much weight over its rear wheels that it needs heavier brake effect at the >rear than most other cars. > >In addition, I learned that if I downshifted slowly, the risk of spinning >would decrease.

I tried that. I'm *crawling* when I downshift, seemingly.

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> >Initially, I regarded the extra gear as - an extra gear. I did my gear >ratios as I do with any other car. Then I found that by doing so, lot's of >time were lost by excessive gearshifting. I then realized that the extra >gear should be used as an extra *low* gear, only to be used at the start of >after complete stops. > >Even though the BRM is the worst car in GPL, I actually like it. Once I was >able to do fairly consistent laps in it, I realized that this car is fun to >drive. As an extra bonus, the rest of the cars seemed easier to drive after >I had tried the BRM.

The *only* reason I'm trying it is an attempt to lower my already pitiful Monster rank. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even BOTHER with that piece of car...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <9fenke$4dle$[email hidden]>, "Roger Squires" <[email hidden]> writes: >> I'm trying to get some practice in other cars. To me, the BRM is almost >> *undriveable*. > > This car and the honda both must be kept in the higher rpm range, that's >all you need to know. >'Need to know' basis?<g> Actually, the Honda sounds like it's *straining* at full speed, the BRM doesn't(to me).

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>>every time I downshifted for the 90, the car spun out. > > Ok. I've been using Alison's setups for the honda and brm, and she >insists on having a very low first gear for both these cars, and I was >seeing exactly the same problem as you are, such that I was scared to >downshift to 1st, thus lugging the engine in 2nd, and I couldn't beat 8:35 >with these two cars for love or money. Finally I raised 1st gear a notch or >two and started using it in slow corners, took 10seconds off my ring times >almost immediately.

I've considered changing the gears to match the other cars, and just ignore the high gear. Haven't done it yet, because I'm scared to go changing stuff... :) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hi Jon, OTOH, I find the BRM the second-easiest to drive (after the Cooper) because of its high polar moment. Like balancing a broom (straw side up) on yer palm, it takes forever to start to fall (vs. straw side down = low p.m.), and is easy to catch once it does. But yes, it is abysmally slow. Too heavy. Since you do need to keep the revs up in the Beast of Bourne, I use first mainly to get it off the mark. In some places with *extremely* slow hairpins (N.M. @ Rouen, ferinstance), I use it elsewhere, but mostly not. --Steve "Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j1CS6.5488$[email hidden]... > There are people that claims BRM is one of the easiest cars in GPL. I > disagree. The car is so hard to drive that you'd really expect quick lap > times in return. This car is a practical joke. It is hard to drive, itfeels > fast, but is amazingly slow. > > When I first tried to drive the BRM, I did extactly the same as you: Spun > when downshifting. > > After moving the brake balance towards the rear, I spun less. The BRM hasso

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> much weight over its rear wheels that it needs heavier brake effect at the > rear than most other cars. > > In addition, I learned that if I downshifted slowly, the risk of spinning > would decrease. > > Initially, I regarded the extra gear as - an extra gear. I did my gear > ratios as I do with any other car. Then I found that by doing so, lot's of > time were lost by excessive gearshifting. I then realized that the extra > gear should be used as an extra *low* gear, only to be used at the start

of > after complete stops. > > Even though the BRM is the worst car in GPL, I actually like it. Once Iwas > able to do fairly consistent laps in it, I realized that this car is funto > drive. As an extra bonus, the rest of the cars seemed easier to driveafter > I had tried the BRM. > > Jon Andersen > > > I'm trying to get some practice in other cars. To me, the BRM is almost > > *undriveable*. My Ferrari rank is +29.02, but the BRM is +99.30. Howdo > you > > guys DO it? I tried running some laps at Watkins last night. For about6 > laps > > in a row, every time I downshifted for the 90, the car spun out. > > Also, do you look at the extra gear as an extra low gear, or an extrahigh > > gear? > > Thanks. > > > > Eldred > >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <j1CS6.5488$[email hidden]>, "Jon Andersen" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >There are people that claims BRM is one of the easiest cars in GPL. I > >disagree. The car is so hard to drive that you'd really expect quick lap > >times in return. This car is a practical joke. It is hard to drive, itfeels > >fast, but is amazingly slow. > > > > I'm guessing that the people who say that are good enough to takeadvantage of > its 'quirks'. I'm not. There are guys in my leagues who can use the BRM,and > still be 3-4 seconds faster than me using ANY car. > > >When I first tried to drive the BRM, I did extactly the same as you: Spun > >when downshifting. > > > >After moving the brake balance towards the rear, I spun less. The BRM hasso > >much weight over its rear wheels that it needs heavier brake effect atthe

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> >rear than most other cars. > > > >In addition, I learned that if I downshifted slowly, the risk of spinning > >would decrease. > > I tried that. I'm *crawling* when I downshift, seemingly. > > > > >Initially, I regarded the extra gear as - an extra gear. I did my gear > >ratios as I do with any other car. Then I found that by doing so, lot's

of > >time were lost by excessive gearshifting. I then realized that the extra > >gear should be used as an extra *low* gear, only to be used at the startof > >after complete stops. > > > >Even though the BRM is the worst car in GPL, I actually like it. Once Iwas > >able to do fairly consistent laps in it, I realized that this car is funto > >drive. As an extra bonus, the rest of the cars seemed easier to driveafter > >I had tried the BRM. > > The *only* reason I'm trying it is an attempt to lower my already pitiful > Monster rank. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even BOTHER with thatpiece of > car...<g> I knew it! : ) KFG

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> > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>"Jeffrey Rowe" <[email hidden]> wrote > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Not only that, but I get messed up with my gear changes all the time. I > > always mix up the gears I'm downshifting into :) (taking a glimpse atthe > > gear shifter). > > The gears confuse me, too. I crash because I'm staring at the stupidshifter > trying to figure out what gear I'm in. That's about the same thing for me... /me takes a quick peak at the gear shifter "ARGH what gear is that??? 4th? 2th?? /me crashes > Huttu drives a 1:04.78 in the BRM at the Glen. But he's an alien ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xIOS6.21932$[email hidden]...

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> I find the BRM a sod to drive. I sometimes wonder if it was really as hard > as this as: > > 1. During the '67 season (as the car in GPL and not the Lotus-BRM) it > managed to come 5th 5 times and at Le Man, Stewart drove it to 3rd place. > > 2. At Goodwood each year racing with cars of similar class and year it > always does well > > Makes you wonder, eh? > > Alan > >

And it nearly won Spa, with *Stewart* driving. Please note the emphasis. How bad was the BRM? It was so bad that in '67 JYS also ran a full season of F2 so people wouldn't forget he knew how to drive. He knew how F1 works. Look at what Damon Hill went through at Arrows, and what Jensen Button is going through now. Everyone readily admits how horrible these cars are/were, yet Damon got relentlesly attacked for his showings in it, and everyone is now wagging their fingers at Button * at the same time as discussing what a pig the Benneton is this year.* It's always easiest to blame the driver. Stewart claimed that the BRM seemed to have a built in performance limit. Anyone could drive it up to that limit, but noone could drive it beyond that. How bad was the BRM? Have you ever stopped to consider why JYS wouldn't let his name be used in the game? THAT'S how bad the BRM was. KFG

Eldred wrote: "The *only* reason I'm trying it is an attempt to lower my already pitiful Monster rank. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even BOTHER with that piece of car...<g>" I'd rather do 1000 laps at the 'Ring in the BRM than one lap anywhere in the "Great White Whale." Rick

Rick Boyd <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9fh4or$2td8$[email hidden]... > > I'd rather do 1000 laps at the 'Ring in the BRM than one lap anywhere inthe > "Great White Whale." > > Rick > You'd better get some sleep now then, you've got 142 hours driving ahead of you tommorow :-) -- -Ace- (GPLRank -24.33) **remove BRAIN before replying**

Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:y%RS6.132604$[email hidden]... > Hi Jon, > > OTOH, I find the BRM the second-easiest to drive (after the Cooper)because

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> of its high polar moment. Like balancing a broom (straw side up) on yer > palm, it takes forever to start to fall (vs. straw side down = low p.m.), > and is easy to catch once it does. But yes, it is abysmally slow. Too > heavy. > > Since you do need to keep the revs up in the Beast of Bourne, I use first > mainly to get it off the mark. In some places with *extremely* slow > hairpins (N.M. @ Rouen, ferinstance), I use it elsewhere, but mostly not. > > --Steve

Hmmm, unfortunately it also takes forever to get moving, an equally long time to stop, and an eternity to respond to all but the most brutal control input. It also really messes up your technique when going back to a more twitchy car like the Brabham or Lotus. Sometimes I wheel out the BRM for its gorgeous engine sound, only to hit "Esc" after five minutes of driving hell. If it wasn't for Monsters of GPL, I'd not touch it. (Well, I might sit and rev it in the pits, but that's it!) -- -Ace- (GPLRank -24.33) **remove BRAIN before replying**

Is you phrase "Great White Whale" refer to the Honda? My enquiring mind would like to know!! <g> | Rick Boyd wrote: | > I'd rather do 1000 laps at the 'Ring in the BRM than one lap anywhere in | > the "Great White Whale." | > | > Rick | > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001

I hate that thing. I could probably take about 5 seconds off my Monster ranking if I drove that . . . thing, for a week; but the chances of that happening are slim to none. I hate that thing. I really do. I'm serious. I mean it. "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:maVS6.29843$[email hidden]... > Is you phrase "Great White Whale" refer to the Honda? My enquiring > mind would like to know!! <g> > > | Rick Boyd wrote: > | > I'd rather do 1000 laps at the 'Ring in the BRM than one lap anywherein

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> | > the "Great White Whale." > | > > | > Rick > | > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001 > >

I will never forget my first few laps at Spa in the BRM: Lap 1: Damn that lap was fast, can't wait to see the time. Why does everyone hate this car. Lap 2: Heck, that was faster than the last one, cool. Lap 3: What? A 3:45? No way! I'm done. I guess the noise of the engine lulls you into thinking, fast! When it is really crawling. If I can get two good laps in at the Ring in the BRM and the Honda I might have the first F3 Monster GPL Time. Now, I should have been working on something else! SLG (All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Steve Garrotto) writes: >I guess the noise of the engine lulls you into thinking, fast! When it >is really crawling. Mine is just the opposite. I think I'm crawling coming up to the corner, except when I turn it, I'm going to fast to make it. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <9fh4or$2td8$[email hidden]>, "Rick Boyd" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Eldred wrote: > >"The *only* reason I'm trying it is an attempt to lower my already pitiful >Monster rank. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even BOTHER with that piece >of >car...<g>" > >I'd rather do 1000 laps at the 'Ring in the BRM than one lap anywhere in the >"Great White Whale." >

I'm faster in the Honda than the BRM at... <checks standings sheet> ...10 out of 11 original tracks. The only track I'm faster in the BRM is Mexico. I'm not sure why, though. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <awSS6.42816$[email hidden]>, "Kevin Gavitt" <[email hidden]> writes: >> The *only* reason I'm trying it is an attempt to lower my already pitiful >> Monster rank. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't even BOTHER with that >piece of >> car...<g> > >I knew it! : ) Well, YEAH... I never tried to hide that fact.<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

ymenard wrote: > Not only that, but I get messed up with my gear changes all the time. I > always mix up the gears I'm downshifting into :) (taking a glimpse at the > gear shifter). Plus, being right-handed, I'm just not as coordinated with my left hand and that messes me up, too. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

LOL, good one David! -- ============================ elh4jj at hotmail <------------------ |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| "David Ewing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > ymenard wrote: > > > Not only that, but I get messed up with my gear changes all the time. I > > always mix up the gears I'm downshifting into :) (taking a glimpse at the > > gear shifter). > > Plus, being right-handed, I'm just not as coordinated with my left hand and > that messes me up, too. > > Dave Ewing > > -- > ***************************************************** > David A. Ewing > Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] > ***************************************************** > > >

Try being left handed...great reflexes usually but absolutely shocking coorination in general! At least in my case. Hence my rather wild driving style...the less time I have to think, the better I go! -- Snappin' Away, Andrew Mercieca VFT Member, Licensed CAMS Official F3, O3, U3 GPL Rank 62.38 "David Ewing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > ymenard wrote: > > > Not only that, but I get messed up with my gear changes all the time. I > > always mix up the gears I'm downshifting into :) (taking a glimpse at the > > gear shifter). > > Plus, being right-handed, I'm just not as coordinated with my left hand and > that messes me up, too. > > Dave Ewing > > -- > ***************************************************** > David A. Ewing > Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] > ***************************************************** > > >

Kevin Gavitt wrote: > and everyone is > now wagging their fingers at Button * at the same time as discussing what a > pig the Benneton is this year.* Hi Kevin, Well, as bad as the Benetton has been, Button has been pretty awful on his own, particularly in qualifying. After outqualifying Fisichella in the first race (16th to 17th on the grid), he has since been outqualified six races in a row. At the last race at Monaco, a driver's track if there ever was one, he qualified 17th while Fisichella qualified 10th! And in the last four races, Fisichella has destroyed Button by 0.856 s, 0.851 seconds, 0.815 s, and 1.122 s ... huge margins in F1. What's even worse, Button has been outqualified by rookie Fernando Alonso in a Minardi (a car that didn't even have a driver line-up or an engine about a month before the start of the season, did no winter testing, and is running an ancient customer engine) four times in the last five races. Fisichella even managed to get a point for Benetton at Brazil. While Button, certainly seems (or it least seemed) to be the real deal based on his performance last year, his problems this year go beyond the lousy car. Perhaps it is just a motivational thing. I hope he turns it around because he seems like a good kid, but, man, is he hurting his career now. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

"David Ewing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Kevin Gavitt wrote: > > > and everyone is > > now wagging their fingers at Button * at the same time as discussingwhat a > > pig the Benneton is this year.* > > Hi Kevin, > > Well, as bad as the Benetton has been, Button has been pretty awful on hisown, > particularly in qualifying. After outqualifying Fisichella in the firstrace > (16th to 17th on the grid), he has since been outqualified six races in arow. > At the last race at Monaco, a driver's track if there ever was one, he > qualified 17th while Fisichella qualified 10th! And in the last fourraces, > Fisichella has destroyed Button by 0.856 s, 0.851 seconds, 0.815 s, and1.122 s > ... huge margins in F1. What's even worse, Button has been outqualified by > rookie Fernando Alonso in a Minardi (a car that didn't even have a driver > line-up or an engine about a month before the start of the season, did no > winter testing, and is running an ancient customer engine) four times inthe > last five races. Fisichella even managed to get a point for Benetton atBrazil. > > While Button, certainly seems (or it least seemed) to be the real dealbased on > his performance last year, his problems this year go beyond the lousy car. > Perhaps it is just a motivational thing. I hope he turns it around becausehe > seems like a good kid, but, man, is he hurting his career now. > > Dave Ewing > There is certainly more going on than the car, but the principle still holds. We'll never know what he might be doing if he were in a different car and F1 is definately a world of "what have you done lately." KFG