A Papy Open wheel sim...

1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an open wheel sim in recent interviews. 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to get than in years past. (or so it seems) 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR Nascar releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) - Any thoughts on this line of reasoning?

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> >1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an >open wheel sim in recent interviews. > >2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to get than >in years past. (or so it seems) > >3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR Nascar >releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim >crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems >to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > >4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > >- >Any thoughts on this line of reasoning?

CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?

It would be neat if they did, I would love to see a Cart sim from them based on the N4/GPL engine. Don Burnette "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to getthan > in years past. (or so it seems) > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJORNascar

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> releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > - > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > >

Unless it's a CART sim, it doesn't matter. We've got F1RC. David G Fisher "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to getthan > in years past. (or so it seems) > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJORNascar

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> releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > - > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > >

Kai Fuller <[email hidden]> wrote on 05 Jun 2001: <snip> > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to > get than in years past. (or so it seems)<snip> Good luck to Papy in trying to get Internet play built in... unless, of course, the fabled CART sim is finally in the wings. It would seem more logical from a commercial POV, as there's no competition (as of now, anyway) as against zillions of F1 games. A CART sim will sell appallingly in Europe, of course, though the coming of Rockingham and the Lausitzring might help a bit. I still want 1000bhp turbocars, though.... -- David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +272.44) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Unless it's a CART sim, it doesn't matter. We've got F1RC. While I agree with DGF that a CART sim would be of more challenge, It does matter that currently F1RC is the best modern F1 sim. *That* is scary :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Couldn't have said it better myself... <g> They know we want it. Jan. =--- TRUSRS85 wrote... > > <snip> > CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 04 Jun 2001 23:33:24 GMT, [email hidden] (TRUSRS85) wrote: >CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >? That's it - TSR is just a bot that looks for the words "open" "wheel" and "Papyrus" in any post and replies as above ;).... Kendt

THIS would be killer. Turbo cars! ******************************** Dave Pawlikowski [email hidden] www.cushdrive.com www.luftwaffe-experten.com " Ah, the Luftwaffe.. the Washington Generals of the History Channel.." Homer Simpson ******************************** . I still want 1000bhp turbocars,

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> though.... > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +272.44) > The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RIVS6.15486$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Unless it's a CART sim, it doesn't matter. We've got F1RC. > > While I agree with DGF that a CART sim would be of more challenge, It does > matter that currently F1RC is the best modern F1 sim. *That* is scary :) > Well, it *would* be scary if it was the best--but it ain't. :-) But it *could* be if a certain company got off their duffs and fixed the damned thing. Jerry Morelock

"chainbreaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VrXS6.110786$[email hidden]...

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RIVS6.15486$[email hidden]... > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Unless it's a CART sim, it doesn't matter. We've got F1RC. > > > > While I agree with DGF that a CART sim would be of more challenge, It

does > > matter that currently F1RC is the best modern F1 sim. *That* is scary:)

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> > > > Well, it *would* be scary if it was the best--but it ain't. :-) But it > *could* be if a certain company got off their duffs and fixed the damned > thing. > > Jerry Morelock > >

I'm still waiting for them to fix F1RS. : ) KFG

Actually, their next SIM is going to be European/American LeMans Series SIM that's going to blow the doors off of WSC. (Whenever it comes out) "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to getthan > in years past. (or so it seems) > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJORNascar

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> releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > - > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > >

oh He's trolling now isn't he? "RegularRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wuXS6.1041$[email hidden]... > Actually, their next SIM is going to be European/American LeMans SeriesSIM

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> that's > going to blow the doors off of WSC. (Whenever it comes out) > > > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at

an

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> > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to get > than > > in years past. (or so it seems) > > > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR > Nascar > > releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore

sim

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> > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern

seems

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> > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > > > - > > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > > > > > >

I agree. If the AI is fixed in F1RC it *can* be a great sim. Right now it's just a fun hot lapping game. We'll see how EA's F1 2001 fares when it's released in the fall. The new graphics engine looks great (hopefully it'll run well), and I'm happy with the physics, multiplayer and AI in F1CS 2000 so I'm really looking forward to this one... "chainbreaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VrXS6.110786$[email hidden]...

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RIVS6.15486$[email hidden]... > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Unless it's a CART sim, it doesn't matter. We've got F1RC. > > > > While I agree with DGF that a CART sim would be of more challenge, It

does > > matter that currently F1RC is the best modern F1 sim. *That* is scary:)

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> > > > Well, it *would* be scary if it was the best--but it ain't. :-) But it > *could* be if a certain company got off their duffs and fixed the damned > thing. > > Jerry Morelock > >

Me Three!! hahahaha This is a riot Kevin!!! "Kevin Gavitt" wrote: | I'm still waiting for them to fix F1RS. : ) | KFG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/2001

Not a bad idea...they took Nascar Heat on head on... why not a Sports Racer? Of course they would have to make a few improvements to their current software... like make online team driving possible, like model more than one carshape, like implement full weather.... thats a couple of very big hurdles to clear...but if they could that would be cool... but the warning should also be stated.... JUST because the West Brothers plan those items and more, doesn't mean any or all of them will make the first release of the sim. dave henrie "RegularRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wuXS6.1041$[email hidden]... > Actually, their next SIM is going to be European/American LeMans SeriesSIM

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> that's > going to blow the doors off of WSC. (Whenever it comes out) > > > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at

an

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> > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to get > than > > in years past. (or so it seems) > > > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR > Nascar > > releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore

sim

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> > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern

seems

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> > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > > > - > > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > > > > > >

I doubt they would back stab the West brothers. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FfYS6.110097$[email hidden]...

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> Not a bad idea...they took Nascar Heat on head on... > why not a Sports Racer? Of course they would have to make a few > improvements to their current software... > like make online team driving possible, like model more than one carshape, > like implement full weather.... > thats a couple of very big hurdles to clear...but if they could that would > be cool... > but the warning should also be stated.... > JUST because the West Brothers plan those items and more, doesn't mean any > or all of them will make the first release of the sim. > dave henrie > "RegularRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:wuXS6.1041$[email hidden]... > > Actually, their next SIM is going to be European/American LeMans Series > SIM > > that's > > going to blow the doors off of WSC. (Whenever it comes out) > > > > > > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > > > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at > an > > > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > > > > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to

get

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> > than > > > in years past. (or so it seems) > > > > > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR > > Nascar > > > releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore > sim > > > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > > > > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > > > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > > > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > > > > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern > seems > > > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > > > > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > > > > > - > > > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > > > > > > > > > > > >

I doubt they would back stab the West brothers.

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> Not a bad idea...they took Nascar Heat on head on... > why not a Sports Racer? Of course they would have to make a few > improvements to their current software... > like make online team driving possible, like model more than one carshape, > like implement full weather.... > thats a couple of very big hurdles to clear...but if they could that would > be cool... > but the warning should also be stated.... > JUST because the West Brothers plan those items and more, doesn't mean any > or all of them will make the first release of the sim. > dave henrie > > Actually, their next SIM is going to be European/American LeMans Series > SIM > > that's > > going to blow the doors off of WSC. (Whenever it comes out) > > > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at > an > > > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to

get

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> > than > > > in years past. (or so it seems) > > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR > > Nascar > > > releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with *** > sim > > > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > > > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > > > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern > seems > > > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > > - > > > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning?

What I'd really like to see is a F1 sim of the 70's with big tires based on the GPL engine. /Blackhawk "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to getthan > in years past. (or so it seems) > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJORNascar

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> releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > - > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > >

As far as I can see, Papy will not open up their architecture, which is one of the main points of the upcoming WSC. So you could hardly say it would be direct competition in this highly hypothetical situation. -Gregor RegularRacer wrote: > > Actually, their next SIM is going to be European/American LeMans Series SIM > that's > going to blow the doors off of WSC. (Whenever it comes out) >

[email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > A CART sim will sell > appallingly in Europe, of course, though the coming of Rockingham and > the Lausitzring might help a bit. I still want 1000bhp turbocars, > though.... > Given that CART has better TV coverage in Europe than the US? CART is a risky franchise proposition, imho. It is simply not on the "motor sport" radar in the US. You only have to look at the poor attendance of the series. Cart would be nice, i do not disagree, but the series is not popular on the level of NASCAR, and would be quite some risk for Sierra. Z. -- Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

[email hidden] (David Buttery) writes:

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> Kai Fuller <[email hidden]> wrote on 05 Jun 2001: > > <snip> > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to > > get than in years past. (or so it seems) > <snip> > > Good luck to Papy in trying to get Internet play built in... unless, of > course, the fabled CART sim is finally in the wings. It would seem more > logical from a commercial POV, as there's no competition (as of now, > anyway) as against zillions of F1 games. A CART sim will sell > appallingly in Europe, of course, though the coming of Rockingham and > the Lausitzring might help a bit.

Why would it ? How much did C:PR sell in Europe ? I think CART is more popular in Europe than many people think. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote on 05 Jun 2001: > Why would it ? How much did C:PR sell in Europe ? A lot of people have it... but a lot of those got it free with their MSFF wheel. It got discounted very early on. >I think CART is > more popular in Europe than many people think. Agreed - and it's well placed to do better with the Euro races and the increasing techno-tedium of F1. NASCAR will never get anywhere here (in the UK, anyway), so I'm hoping Papy will get off the NASCAR trains for a while and do something more interesting. </provocation> -- David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +272.44) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Zonky wrote: > CART is a risky franchise proposition, imho. It is simply not on the "motor > sport" radar in the US. You only have to look at the poor attendance of the > series. Only on the ovals, my friend... their road course & street course attendance has been pretty consistently on the rise. 175,000 heads for a weekend isn't uncommon. Warlock!

One thing that would really help get a CART sim done was if IRL and CART were to reform into one series next year. Can anyone who follows these series more closely than I do say whether that's really likely? "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at an > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to getthan > in years past. (or so it seems) > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJORNascar

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> releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore sim > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > - > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > >

With Tony George at the helm of the IRL... about a snowball's chance in... well you get the idea. Robin "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kR6T6.5471$[email hidden]...

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> One thing that would really help get a CART sim done was if IRL and CART > were to reform into one series next year. > > Can anyone who follows these series more closely than I do say whether > that's really likely? > > "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]... > > 1.) It does seem like they've (Papyrus core designers) been hinting at

an

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> > open wheel sim in recent interviews. > > > > 2.) The F1 license is seemingly very profitable, and also easier to get > than > > in years past. (or so it seems) > > > > 3.) Papyrus has historically released an open wheel sim between MAJOR > Nascar > > releases. (Apparently to market test new physics engines with hardcore

sim

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> > crowd before releasing a "mistake" into the cash cow Nascar series.) > > > > Indycar 1, then Nascar 1. > > Indycar 2, then Nascar 2. > > GPL 1 :), then Nascar 4. > > > > Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern

seems

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> > to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > > > > 4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > > > > - > > Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? > > > > > >

>"Alan Orton" <[email hidden]> wrote > I doubt they would back stab the West brothers. Oh please. It's a business, people are there to make profit. If WSC is successful, then yes I would be please to see other producers give thumbs up to Sportscar simulations. Too bad, but it's the law of the game. If you don't like it, don't play it. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote > CART is a risky franchise proposition, imho. Cmon guys. Realise that everybody else in the industry is releasing SMALLER franchise racing sims then CART. Look at Leadfoot, Motocross games, Karting titles, Rally Trophy (or any Rally title), Drag racing sims, Mercedes-Benz Truck Racing(!!!), Dirt Track titles by Ratbag, Monster Trucks , check out ALL the titles on the market. CART is not "risky", what the heck are you talking about??????�?� With your way of thinking, about every bloody title in the industry is not profitable only because they are not on the "motor sport" radar in the US. Which shows also the poor closed-minded vision that only the USA counts in the industry. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes: > One thing that would really help get a CART sim done was if IRL and CART > were to reform into one series next year. > > Can anyone who follows these series more closely than I do say whether > that's really likely? Not likely at all, specially next year. What I think will happen is that CART will make a new chassis and engine formula (abandon turbos, noooo!) to make it easier for CART teams to enter the Indy500. I wouldn't mind TG realizing his mistake and abandon the IRL idea for good though... :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Zonky) writes: > Cart would be nice, i do not disagree, but the series is not popular on the > level of NASCAR, and would be quite some risk for Sierra. No form of racing is popular on the level of NASCAR, at least not in the US. CART has problems, there's no denying it, but it's still the #2 form of motorsport in the US behind NASCAR. It's about the only other series that's regularly on broadcast television. So if they want to go where the market is, they can either just keep doing NASCAR forever, and ultimately die of boredom, or if they want to do something different, CART would clearly be the logical choice. Personally, I think I'll enjoy whatever they do, if they do something other than NASCAR, because I'm sure it will be done well. I didn't know (or care) doodly squat about F1 in the 60s until GPL, but the game is so well done that I flat love it (and I love 60s F1 now too!). If Papy did the Eastern Bloc Touring Car Championship where you race early-80s Trabants and Ladas on decrepit, weed-infested circuits in the Ukraine, I'm sure they'd do a wonderful job and I'd love it to death. And actually, why should it be the case that a historic racing sim is automatically written off as unsalable? Historic flight sims seem to do very well. Historic military strategy games are very popular too. The problem with GPL may have been more in its difficulty than the era it simulated. So give us CART, give us Turbo-era F1, even give us the EBTCC, and I'll be happy. But I'm tired of NASCAR. Marc

After the stepping-on that the IRL received at Indy this year, and more CART teams thinking about doing Indy as a one-off next year, I'd expect the 25/8 rule to be back at the Brickyard for 2003... then it's gonna be 1996 all over again. :( "Olav K. Malmin" wrote:

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> "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > One thing that would really help get a CART sim done was if IRL and CART > > were to reform into one series next year. > > > > Can anyone who follows these series more closely than I do say whether > > that's really likely? > > Not likely at all, specially next year. What I think will happen is > that CART will make a new chassis and engine formula (abandon turbos, > noooo!) to make it easier for CART teams to enter the Indy500. > > I wouldn't mind TG realizing his mistake and abandon the IRL idea for > good though... :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

In article <ABUS6.23320$[email hidden]>, "Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Ignoring Nascar 99 and 3 as intermediately releases, the pattern seems >to point towards a new open wheel sim from Papy in the next few years. > >4.) They're getting tired of making new patches for GPL. :) > >- >Any thoughts on this line of reasoning? >

I'd like to see it, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than be bitterly disappointed. :) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'm think they want it too - is't all down to licencing and money now :-) My hope it that they choose CART over F1. Modern day F1 is just one giant yaaaaaaaawn... The cars suck, the tracks suck, the FIA sucks and the competition in general sucks. So unless they do GPL2 - I'd rather have a CART-sim -- ed_ -- Note! Return address is *not* my own - but the e-mail address to an e-mail mass-distribution company that have bothered me one time to many! Eat this - suckers! Jan Verschueren wrote: > Couldn't have said it better myself... <g> > > They know we want it. > > Jan. > =--- > TRUSRS85 wrote... > > > <snip> > > CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >

This explains a lot. David G Fisher "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3zaT6.5576$[email hidden]... > My hope it that they choose CART over F1. > Modern day F1 is just one giant yaaaaaaaawn... The cars suck, the tracks > suck, the FIA sucks and the competition in general sucks. > > So unless they do GPL2 - I'd rather have a CART-sim

In article <9fjpgl$eca$[email hidden]>, Thomas M�rlund <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> "Matt Lanzer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > After the stepping-on that the IRL received at Indy this year, and more > CART > > teams thinking about doing Indy as a one-off next year, I'd expect the > 25/8 > > rule to be back at the Brickyard for 2003... then it's gonna be 1996 all > over > > again. :( > > > > Excuse me my ignorance, but could you explain the '25/8 rule' please?

I think he must be talking about the IRL rule that PO'd the CART guys, basically that at the time of the split 25 spots were guaranteed to IRL regulars who had been racing the entire IRL schedule, regardless of qualifying speed. That would leave 8 up for grabs for the CART guys. [33 total]. On some level I guess it made sense to protect the league guys and all so they could get to race in the 500 after funding a team for the entire season, but definitely violated the "33 fastest" spirit of the brickyard. That was the final straw for the CART guys, and the split really began in earnest at that time, up until last year. If I remember right it seemed Penske made comments this year along the lines of wanting to get the two series back together somehow, maybe at least for one race. Remember those comments from CART owners before a race last year who thought going to Indy was like crossing a picket line and not supporting CART, but when Penske raced there this year I thought things must have changed. Tim

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > This explains a lot. Explains a lot of what? Gee DGF your hit-and-run tactics don't work anymore, don't you see it? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Great! -- ed_ -- Note! Return address is *not* my own - but the e-mail address to an e-mail mass-distribution company that have bothered me one time to many! - Eat this - suckers! DGF said: > This explains a lot. > > David G Fisher > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3zaT6.5576$[email hidden]... > > My hope it that they choose CART over F1. > > Modern day F1 is just one giant yaaaaaaaawn... The cars suck, the tracks > > suck, the FIA sucks and the competition in general sucks. > > > > So unless they do GPL2 - I'd rather have a CART-sim > >

But does it *suck* Ed? sorry couldnt resist.. <g> "Ed Solheim" wrote: | I'm think they want it too - is't all down to licencing and money now:-)

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| My hope it that they choose CART over F1. | Modern day F1 is just one giant yaaaaaaaawn... The cars suck, the tracks | suck, the FIA sucks and the competition in general sucks. | | So unless they do GPL2 - I'd rather have a CART-sim | -- | ed_

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"Matt Lanzer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > After the stepping-on that the IRL received at Indy this year, and moreCART > teams thinking about doing Indy as a one-off next year, I'd expect the25/8 > rule to be back at the Brickyard for 2003... then it's gonna be 1996 allover > again. :( > Excuse me my ignorance, but could you explain the '25/8 rule' please?

Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote on 05 Jun 2001: > One thing that would really help get a CART sim done was if IRL and > CART were to reform into one series next year. > > Can anyone who follows these series more closely than I do say > whether that's really likely? Why bother? CART is so far ahead of IRL that it hurts. No "pure IRL" driver is ever going to be world famous, because nowhere else cares in the slightest about IRL, Indy 500 or not. In cricket terms: CART is the Ashes series; the IRL is a one-day international between Kenya and Bangladesh. -- David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +272.44) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

>"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote > I think he must be talking about the IRL rule that PO'd the CART guys, > basically that at the time of the split 25 spots were guaranteed to IRL > regulars who had been racing the entire IRL schedule, regardless of > qualifying speed. That would leave 8 up for grabs for the CART guys. > [33 total]. I think it might be the opposite, actually. 25 CART, plus the top 8 IRL drivers. There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive against the CART teams, and I see no way in the future either. Some people even speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> > > > Excuse me my ignorance, but could you explain the '25/8 rule' please? > What was the bane of modern open wheel motorsports? What was the foul spewing of desperation? What was weilding a hammer so heavy it destroys what it tries to build? THAT is the 25/8 rule. A plan so inherently evil only the very son of Satan could have conceived it. dave henrie

> Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race that gives them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the 500, the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. No sponsors = no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field. In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split... Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actual rule that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would be forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously it didn't work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race on Memorial Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500). In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules from CART making it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy. Since George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did away with the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the field at Indy. Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy still is, CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck! Let's do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3 million, and walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did. Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti) along with Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did. In the final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CART drivers Helio Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry) to third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5, and 6 with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCAR driver Tony Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driver Nicholas Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leaving him in position 28 or 29. Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment that the IRL guys race all year long? Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are planning an all-out assault of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, at least 2 from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez, Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CART teams participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in 2002, I think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by once again instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003. Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again... Warlock!

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> > > I think it might be the opposite, actually. 25 CART, plus the top 8 IRL > drivers. There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive against the > CART teams, and I see no way in the future either. Some people even > speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule. > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

George would never redo something as stupid as the 25/8 rule. It was an idiotic idea before, and seeing the error of his ways, it was removed. And yes, the IRL was severly hurt by the results in this year's 500. However, just look at what happened to every IRL driver who had a realistic chance. Hornish, Sharp, and Fisher all spun on cold tires. That's just a racing deal, it happens, and it has been worse than that pre-IRL (I believe 1992, but it's whatever year both Jeff and Mario Andretti ended up in the hospital). Lazier, Gordon, and Dismore both had mechanical failures, hardly says anything about how good they are as drivers. Hell, Hornish and Dismore at least were as fast as Gil and Helio, and very likely faster than them. The fact that it is unfamiliar equipment proves very little. There was plenty of time to get up to speed in these cars before the race actually begins. These guys have driven a variety of cars before getting this far, and they should be able to adjust. It would be sad if they were unable to adjust. They didn't just jump in these cars to days before the race and get only an hour each day of practice time the two days beforehand. -Pav On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Matt Lanzer wrote:

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> > > > Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race that gives > them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the 500, > the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. No sponsors = > no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field. > > In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split... > > Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule > allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actual rule > that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would be > forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously it didn't > work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race on Memorial > Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500). > In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules from CART making > it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy. Since > George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did away with > the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the field at > Indy. > Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy still is, > CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck! Let's > do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3 million, and > walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did. > Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti) along with > Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did. In the > final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CART drivers Helio > Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry) to > third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5, and 6 > with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCAR driver Tony > Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driver Nicholas > Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leaving him in > position 28 or 29. > > Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment that the IRL > guys race all year long? > > Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are planning an > all-out assault of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, at least 2 > from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez, > Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CART teams > participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in 2002, I > think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by once again > instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003. > > Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again... > > Warlock! > > > > > > > > I think it might be the opposite, actually. 25 CART, plus the top 8 IRL > > drivers. There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive against the > > CART teams, and I see no way in the future either. Some people even > > speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule. > > > > -- > > -- François Ménard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

Yes the race probably would have been more even if the IRL speedsters had lasted the whole event. But you are discounting the HUGE advantage the IRL has with equipment and scheduling. While the IRL teams had the whole month to prepare for qualifying and the race, the CART teams had two events prior to Indy and one immeadiately after. And not just any event, the weekend before Indy they were in Japan. Finally the 6 or 7 years that the CART teams were away from Indy also gave the IRL teams a big 'notebook' advantage. The IRL teams had data from all those races concerning the chassis and engines. It's not just a matter of the drivers jumping into a different type of car and adjusting, the teams have a huge preparation deficit to overcome. Last year Buddy Lazier was faster than Juan Montoya except when it counted, at the finish. And this year the Menard drivers 'should' have coasted to an easy win but Ray drove himself into the wall trying to race with a Cart driver. Speaking of Mennard,(one or two n's? ymenard always confuses me) Back when the IRL first started, Mennard was the defacto test team...They had something like 1000 laps at the brickyard before anyone else got a chassis. They had the IRL's greatest driver in Tony Stewart. They had the biggest budgets. How many Indy races has Team Mennard won? dave henrie "John Pavlicek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... George would never redo something as stupid as the 25/8 rule. It was an idiotic idea before, and seeing the error of his ways, it was removed. And yes, the IRL was severly hurt by the results in this year's 500. However, just look at what happened to every IRL driver who had a realistic chance. Hornish, Sharp, and Fisher all spun on cold tires. That's just a racing deal, it happens, and it has been worse than that pre-IRL (I believe 1992, but it's whatever year both Jeff and Mario Andretti ended up in the hospital). Lazier, Gordon, and Dismore both had mechanical failures, hardly says anything about how good they are as drivers. Hell, Hornish and Dismore at least were as fast as Gil and Helio, and very likely faster than them. The fact that it is unfamiliar equipment proves very little. There was plenty of time to get up to speed in these cars before the race actually begins. These guys have driven a variety of cars before getting this far, and they should be able to adjust. It would be sad if they were unable to adjust. They didn't just jump in these cars to days before the race and get only an hour each day of practice time the two days beforehand. -Pav On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Matt Lanzer wrote: > > > > Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race thatgives > them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the500, > the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. Nosponsors = > no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field. > > In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split... > > Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule > allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actualrule > that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would be > forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously itdidn't > work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race onMemorial > Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500). > In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules from CARTmaking > it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy.Since > George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did awaywith > the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the fieldat > Indy. > Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy stillis, > CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck!Let's > do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3 million,and > walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did. > Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti) alongwith > Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did. Inthe > final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CART driversHelio > Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry)to > third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5, and6 > with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCARdriver Tony > Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driverNicholas > Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leavinghim in > position 28 or 29. > > Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment thatthe IRL > guys race all year long? > > Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are planningan > all-out assault of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, atleast 2 > from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez, > Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CART teams > participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in2002, I > think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by onceagain

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> instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003. > > Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again... > > Warlock! > > > > > > > > I think it might be the opposite, actually. 25 CART, plus the top 8 IRL > > drivers. There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive against

the

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> > CART teams, and I see no way in the future either. Some people even > > speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule. > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

We just had the european tv coverage in australia for the first few rounds in 2001, and that coverage was so poor in comparison to the american coverage we previously recieved i was losing interest in CART (especially with the improving f1 racing this year), but the last race televised here was back to the american broadcast and it was a lot better. "Zonky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > A CART sim will sell > > appallingly in Europe, of course, though the coming of Rockingham and > > the Lausitzring might help a bit. I still want 1000bhp turbocars, > > though.... > > > > Given that CART has better TV coverage in Europe than the US? > > CART is a risky franchise proposition, imho. It is simply not on the

"motor > sport" radar in the US. You only have to look at the poor attendance ofthe > series. > > Cart would be nice, i do not disagree, but the series is not popular onthe

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> level of NASCAR, and would be quite some risk for Sierra. > > Z. > > > -- > Please remove my_pants when replying by email.

You are completely full of poo-poo-ca-ca on the return of the 25/8 rule, Matt. A common formula will mean that Indy will remain wide-open, and we will see more cooperation between CART and the IRL in the future, possibly to the extent that a single governing body will be established using the "Indycar" name to serve as an umbrella organization for both series. CART will manage and sanction CART races, the IRL will manage and sanction CART races, but the "Indycar" organization will likely be responsible for serving as a liason to help tie the two entities together in a mutally-beneficial manner. United they stand, divided they both suffer. -- JB On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:03:01 -0400, Matt Lanzer <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> > > Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race that gives >them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the 500, >the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. No sponsors = >no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field. > >In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split... > > Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule >allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actual rule >that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would be >forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously it didn't >work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race on Memorial >Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500). > In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules from CART making >it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy. Since >George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did away with >the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the field at >Indy. > Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy still is, >CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck! Let's >do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3 million, and >walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did. > Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti) along with >Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did. In the >final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CART drivers Helio >Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry) to >third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5, and 6 >with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCAR driver Tony >Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driver Nicholas >Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leaving him in >position 28 or 29. > > Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment that the IRL >guys race all year long? > > Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are planning an >all-out assault of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, at least 2 >from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez, >Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CART teams >participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in 2002, I >think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by once again >instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003. > >Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again... > >Warlock! > > >> >> >> I think it might be the opposite, actually. 25 CART, plus the top 8 IRL >> drivers. There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive against the >> CART teams, and I see no way in the future either. Some people even >> speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule. >> >> -- >> -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >> -- May the Downforce be with you... >> -- http://www.ymenard.com/ >> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez >> Corporation - helping America into the New World... >

John Bodin wrote: > You are completely full of poo-poo-ca-ca on the return of the 25/8 > rule, Matt. Well, that's a lot better than being full of sh!t (like I'm usually told)... What's the status on the official, non-beta release of CART CS2K??? I'm salivating at the thought... Warlock!

No. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JgdT6.24442$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > This explains a lot. > > Explains a lot of what? Gee DGF your hit-and-run tactics don't work > anymore, don't you see it? > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:53:01 -0400, Matt Lanzer <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >John Bodin wrote: > >> You are completely full of poo-poo-ca-ca on the return of the 25/8 >> rule, Matt. > >Well, that's a lot better than being full of sh!t (like I'm usually told)...

LOL! >What's the status on the official, non-beta release of CART CS2K??? >I'm salivating at the thought... It's coming along nicely -- we've got several CART tracks that are usable but not finalized yet. I think you're going to like the end result! ;-) -- JB

Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KJqT6.119354$[email hidden]... > Yes the race probably would have been more even if the IRL speedstershad > lasted the whole event. But you are discounting the HUGE advantage theIRL > has with equipment and scheduling. While the IRL teams had the wholemonth > to prepare for qualifying and the race, the CART teams had two eventsprior

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> to Indy and one immeadiately after. And not just any event, the weekend > before Indy they were in Japan. Finally the 6 or 7 years that the CART > teams were away from Indy also gave the IRL teams a big 'notebook' > advantage. The IRL teams had data from all those races concerning the > chassis and engines. It's not just a matter of the drivers jumping into a > different type of car and adjusting, the teams have a huge preparation > deficit to overcome. > Last year Buddy Lazier was faster than Juan Montoya except when it > counted, at the finish. And this year the Menard drivers 'should' have > coasted to an easy win but > Ray drove himself into the wall trying to race with a Cart driver. > Speaking of Mennard,(one or two n's? ymenard always confuses me) Back > when the IRL first started, Mennard was the defacto test team...They had > something like 1000 laps at the brickyard before anyone else got a

chassis.

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> They had the IRL's greatest driver in Tony Stewart. They had the biggest > budgets. How many Indy races has Team Mennard won? > dave henrie > "John Pavlicek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > George would never redo something as stupid as the 25/8 rule. It was an > idiotic idea before, and seeing the error of his ways, it was removed. > And yes, the IRL was severly hurt by the results in this year's 500. > However, just look at what happened to every IRL driver who had a > realistic chance. Hornish, Sharp, and Fisher all spun on cold tires. > That's just a racing deal, it happens, and it has been worse than that > pre-IRL (I believe 1992, but it's whatever year both Jeff and Mario > Andretti ended up in the hospital). Lazier, Gordon, and Dismore both had > mechanical failures, hardly says anything about how good they are as > drivers. Hell, Hornish and Dismore at least were as fast as Gil and > Helio, and very likely faster than them. > > The fact that it is unfamiliar equipment proves very little. There was > plenty of time to get up to speed in these cars before the race actually > begins. These guys have driven a variety of cars before getting this far, > and they should be able to adjust. It would be sad if they were unable to > adjust. They didn't just jump in these cars to days before the race and > get only an hour each day of practice time the two days beforehand. > > -Pav > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Matt Lanzer wrote: > > > > > > > > Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race that > gives > > them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the > 500, > > the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. No > sponsors = > > no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field. > > > > In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split... > > > > Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule > > allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actual > rule > > that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would

be > > forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously it > didn't > > work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race on > Memorial > > Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500). > > In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules fromCART

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> making > > it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy. > Since > > George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did away > with > > the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the field > at > > Indy. > > Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy still > is, > > CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck! > Let's > > do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3

million, > and > > walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did. > > Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti)along > with > > Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did.In > the > > final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CARTdrivers > Helio > > Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry) > to > > third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5,and

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> 6 > > with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCAR > driver Tony > > Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driver > Nicholas > > Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leaving > him in > > position 28 or 29. > > > > Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment that > the IRL > > guys race all year long? > > > > Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are

planning > an > > all-out assault of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, at > least 2 > > from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez, > > Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CARTteams

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> > participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in > 2002, I > > think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by once > again > > instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003. > > > > Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again... > > > > Warlock! > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it might be the opposite, actually. 25 CART, plus the top 8

IRL > > > drivers. There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitiveagainst

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> the > > > CART teams, and I see no way in the future either. Some people even > > > speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule. > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > >

If you would, please let the folks at the seventhgear.com website (probably in the "Off Topic" forum) know how things are going with updates now and then... There's alot of people in there waiting for it! ;) Warlock! John Bodin wrote:

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> It's coming along nicely -- we've got several CART tracks that are > usable but not finalized yet. I think you're going to like the end > result! > > ;-) > > -- JB

>"Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote > Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe Well if this was the case, I would also be the driver ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !! ROFLMAO ;) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ#4395450 ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OaST6.44154$[email hidden]... > >"Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe > > Well if this was the case, I would also be the driver ;-) > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

In article <DHST6.5712$[email hidden]>, Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote: > And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !! ROFLMAO ;) > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ#4395450 Okay; just what in the Hell is ROFLMAO ??! :)

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> > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OaST6.44154$[email hidden]... > > >"Kai Fuller" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe > > > > Well if this was the case, I would also be the driver ;-) > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > >

Tim wrote: > > Okay; just what in the Hell is ROFLMAO ??! :) > > > Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off! Warlock!

Are you implying that the CART guys never had cold tires that they could spin on? The CART guys were driving the same race in similar cars and were just as prone to mechanical failure...but spinning on cold tires seems to be a driver error to me. JB

They DID NOT KNOW that we wanted a 1960's Grand Prix simulation though......and they made it anyways. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Couldn't have said it better myself... <g> > > They know we want it. > > Jan. > =--- > TRUSRS85 wrote... > > > <snip> > > CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >

I wouldn't mind not getting what I'd hoped for if I got something better instead *again*. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. RegularRacer wrote... > They DID NOT KNOW that we wanted a 1960's Grand Prix > simulation though......and they made it anyways.

In article <[email hidden]>, Matt Lanzer <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Tim wrote: > > > > > Okay; just what in the Hell is ROFLMAO ??! :) > > > > > > > Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off! > > Warlock!

Thanks Warlock! I love how things get longer and more descriptive. HTOMP,ISAMONRSQWMOR. MIGIO,ITOESEUTH. ("Having Tea On My Porch, I Saw A Meadowlark..." Tim

CART sim! -- Posted via http://www.motorsportforums.com/ Posts to not reflect the opinion of motorsport forums\nPlease report abuse to abuse

Sad. Marty David G Fisher wrote:

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> No. > > David G Fisher > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JgdT6.24442$[email hidden]... > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > This explains a lot. > > > > Explains a lot of what? Gee DGF your hit-and-run tactics don't work > > anymore, don't you see it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > >

>"Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote > And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !! ROFLMAO ;) Well, you ever seen bankers running a racing team? Nope, it's just not possible LMAO! They would only race from 11am to 2pm in the afternoon, monday/thursday/wednesday/friday ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

What would really be an awesome adventure into the unknown would be to release a sim based on the original CAN-AM series in the 60's and 70's. If you thought GPL was hard to get the hang of...

Well hell, a PARADE any longer than 3 hours is redundant anyways!!!! =) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7_BU6.78856$[email hidden]... > >"Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote > > And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !! ROFLMAO ;) > > > Well, you ever seen bankers running a racing team? Nope, it's just not > possible LMAO! They would only race from 11am to 2pm in the afternoon, > monday/thursday/wednesday/friday ;-) > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Francois, you "may" be right and VERY wrong. Running ANY modern race team without a banker is virtually impossible. The money that today's competiton requires is astounding and the guys who control the purse-strings most likely have a big impact on what a team does or doesn't do. dave henrie "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7_BU6.78856$[email hidden]...

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> >"Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote > > And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !! ROFLMAO ;) > > > Well, you ever seen bankers running a racing team? Nope, it's just not > possible LMAO! They would only race from 11am to 2pm in the afternoon, > monday/thursday/wednesday/friday ;-) > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

>"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > Francois, you "may" be right and VERY wrong. Running ANY modern raceteam > without a banker is virtually impossible. The money that today'scompetiton > requires is astounding and the guys who control the purse-strings most > likely have a big impact on what a team does or doesn't do. It was a joke (you know, Scott is a banker). > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > Well, you ever seen bankers running a racing team? Nope, it's just not > > possible LMAO! They would only race from 11am to 2pm in the afternoon, > > monday/thursday/wednesday/friday ;-)

Isn't there a charter somewhere that keeps bankers out of RAS? Next you'll be telling me we have Accountants and Hairdressers here too...... dave henrie "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gBTU6.3913$[email hidden]...

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> >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Francois, you "may" be right and VERY wrong. Running ANY modern race > team > > without a banker is virtually impossible. The money that today's > competiton > > requires is astounding and the guys who control the purse-strings most > > likely have a big impact on what a team does or doesn't do. > > > It was a joke (you know, Scott is a banker). > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > Well, you ever seen bankers running a racing team? Nope, it's just

not > > > possible LMAO! They would only race from 11am to 2pm in theafternoon, > > > monday/thursday/wednesday/friday ;-) > > >

Gee Just color my hair pinky, purple, lemon & lime aka " Mr Bruce'ie Loosie Goosie" most of the time.. Ooh My! "Dave Henrie" wrote: | Next you'll be telling me we have Accountants and | Hairdressers here too...... | dave henrie --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.259 / Virus Database: 130 - Release Date: 6/5/2001

[email hidden] wrote: > What would really be an awesome adventure into the unknown would be to > release a sim based on the original CAN-AM series in the 60's and > 70's. If you thought GPL was hard to get the hang of... This would be my first choice, too. I'm not sure why this would be harder "to get the hang of", though. The Chaparrals had tremendous grip, although it might be tricky to learn to manually adjust the wing angles as you're driving. How about driving the 1970 Chaparral 2J Sucker car? That thing probably went deeper into the corners than car ever. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

David Ewing wrote:

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> [email hidden] wrote: > > > What would really be an awesome adventure into the unknown would be to > > release a sim based on the original CAN-AM series in the 60's and > > 70's. If you thought GPL was hard to get the hang of... > > This would be my first choice, too. I'm not sure why this would be harder > "to get the hang of", though. The Chaparrals had tremendous grip, > although it might be tricky to learn to manually adjust the wing angles > as you're driving. How about driving the 1970 Chaparral 2J Sucker car? > That thing probably went deeper into the corners than car ever.

Oops. That last phrase should have read "than any car ever". Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

>"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote > Isn't there a charter somewhere that keeps bankers out of RAS? Next > you'll be telling me we have Accountants and Hairdressers here too...... Yep it's there in the r.a.s. charter, but you know Scott is just hard-headed and doesn't care ;-) We finally threw him out of Jacob's newsgroup, and boy it's as good as it ever was now! LMAO -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I guess we didn't know that we wanted a 60th racing sim. They simply gave it to us and the cult started to develope. JensSchumi On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:29:49 -0700, "RegularRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote: >They DID NOT KNOW that we wanted a 1960's Grand Prix simulation >though......and they made it anyways. > > -- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.nbci.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -12 Monsters of GPL: sub 200

In article <[email hidden]>, Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote: > Couldn't have said it better myself... <g> > > They know we want it. I personally think CART will be too much like F1 in a simulation. I would much rather see pre-60's simulations of either sports cars or open wheel. Something about rocketing through the woods in Bremgarten, or one of those 20-40km tracks with your mechanic just screams for a simulation. -- "Since a politician never believes what he says, he is surprised when others believe him." -- Charles DeGaulle ______________________________________________________________________ Charles Shannon Hendrix s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m