N4 - Qualifying Cheating ?

Ok, folks. There is something going on here... When one or two cars can qualify 3 seconds faster than anyone else, something is not right. I've even seen this in FIXED setup races! The usual response is "It's my special Line" or something like that. Line my ass. I've heard rumors that some are cheating by going down pit road on the Qualifying laps. Is that what is happening here? Is there any way to see someone _elses_ qualifying run? I think we have another security hole for Papy to plug up. -Larry

Larry - I've often thought the same thing. To see in a fixed Papy race two or three guys almost a second faster is weird. In the race, they don't take off like the qual. time would suggest, so something is up. The lines I've seen are nothing special. I once tried the pitlane at Daytona on my second lap to cut a quicker time and was DQ'd instantly. If you stay on the grass you might cut time, but then you are coasting/sliding not driving so I really don't think it would be quicker. If these guys were just as fast in the race, I would understand. But they aren't. Papy fixed the no crash hack a few weeks ago, so maybe this is another issue. ******************************** Dave Pawlikowski [email hidden] www.cushdrive.com www.luftwaffe-experten.com ********************************* " > Ok, folks. There is something going on here...

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> > When one or two cars can qualify 3 seconds faster than anyone else, > something is not right. > > I've even seen this in FIXED setup races! > > The usual response is "It's my special Line" or something like that. Line > my ass. > > I've heard rumors that some are cheating by going down pit road on the > Qualifying laps. Is that what is happening here? > > Is there any way to see someone _elses_ qualifying run? > > I think we have another security hole for Papy to plug up. > > -Larry > >

Dave, There is DEFINETLY something going on. You're right. When one or two guys qual 2-3 seconds faster than everyone else, especially under fixed, something is afoot. Especially when you know YOU can qual at the first or second position consistently, and you keep getting your but kicked by a huge margin. Or, when you have people you know are front-row qualifyers, day in and day out, getting beat by 2 sec or more. Man, I wish there was a way to watch someone else qual... -Larry "Dave Pawlikowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YB4X6.638$[email hidden]...

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> Larry - I've often thought the same thing. To see in a fixed Papy race two > or three guys almost a second faster is weird. > > In the race, they don't take off like the qual. time would suggest, so > something is up. The lines I've seen are nothing special. > > I once tried the pitlane at Daytona on my second lap to cut a quicker time > and was DQ'd instantly. If you stay on the grass you might cut time, but > then you are coasting/sliding not driving so I really don't think it would > be quicker. > > If these guys were just as fast in the race, I would understand. But they > aren't. Papy fixed the no crash hack a few weeks ago, so maybe this is > another issue. > > ******************************** > Dave Pawlikowski > [email hidden] > www.cushdrive.com > www.luftwaffe-experten.com > ********************************* > " > Ok, folks. There is something going on here... > > > > When one or two cars can qualify 3 seconds faster than anyone else, > > something is not right. > > > > I've even seen this in FIXED setup races! > > > > The usual response is "It's my special Line" or something like that.

Line

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> > my ass. > > > > I've heard rumors that some are cheating by going down pit road on the > > Qualifying laps. Is that what is happening here? > > > > Is there any way to see someone _elses_ qualifying run? > > > > I think we have another security hole for Papy to plug up. > > > > -Larry > > > > > >

I've heard guys say that they will join a server just as it gets ready to go to Q and their times are just that much faster. I heard about it over on Papy's forums. I don't know what to make of it. Apparently in pickup races, you need to join right before Q and your times will be faster. Some folks call it a bug, some call it a cheat, <shrugs> dunno. Of course you're talking 2-3 seconds faster, but on what track. I could see it on a road course, maybe even at Pocono. I've run 4-5 seconds faster than others qualifying at Sears and been called a cheat, but I didn't. It was fixed setup at that. I like to think it is a blend of talent and good equipment (fast computer and video card along with a high end wheel). On top of the equipment I practice a lot too, but I have picked up a few tenths to a second at some places just because my FPS were 75 instead of 25. Back to the point, there is something to late arrivals qualifying faster. Keep a lookout next time and see if the last guys to join were the ones up front after Q. If so, Papy is aware as are a ton of guys over at Papy's forums. Sim Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rg6X6.117755$[email hidden]... > Dave, > > There is DEFINETLY something going on. You're right. When one or twoguys

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> qual 2-3 seconds faster than everyone else, especially under fixed, > something is afoot. > > Especially when you know YOU can qual at the first or second position > consistently, and you keep getting your but kicked by a huge margin. > > Or, when you have people you know are front-row qualifyers, day in and day > out, getting beat by 2 sec or more. > > Man, I wish there was a way to watch someone else qual... > > -Larry > > "Dave Pawlikowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YB4X6.638$[email hidden]... > > Larry - I've often thought the same thing. To see in a fixed Papy race

two > > or three guys almost a second faster is weird. > > > > In the race, they don't take off like the qual. time would suggest, so > > something is up. The lines I've seen are nothing special. > > > > I once tried the pitlane at Daytona on my second lap to cut a quickertime > > and was DQ'd instantly. If you stay on the grass you might cut time, but > > then you are coasting/sliding not driving so I really don't think itwould > > be quicker. > > > > If these guys were just as fast in the race, I would understand. Butthey

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> > aren't. Papy fixed the no crash hack a few weeks ago, so maybe this is > > another issue. > > > > ******************************** > > Dave Pawlikowski > > [email hidden] > > www.cushdrive.com > > www.luftwaffe-experten.com > > ********************************* > > " > Ok, folks. There is something going on here... > > > > > > When one or two cars can qualify 3 seconds faster than anyone else, > > > something is not right. > > > > > > I've even seen this in FIXED setup races! > > > > > > The usual response is "It's my special Line" or something like that. > Line > > > my ass. > > > > > > I've heard rumors that some are cheating by going down pit road on the > > > Qualifying laps. Is that what is happening here? > > > > > > Is there any way to see someone _elses_ qualifying run? > > > > > > I think we have another security hole for Papy to plug up. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZH3X6.116744$[email hidden]... : Ok, folks. There is something going on here... : : When one or two cars can qualify 3 seconds faster than anyone else, : something is not right. : : I've even seen this in FIXED setup races! : : The usual response is "It's my special Line" or something like that. Line : my ass. : : I've heard rumors that some are cheating by going down pit road on the : Qualifying laps. Is that what is happening here? : : Is there any way to see someone _elses_ qualifying run? : : I think we have another security hole for Papy to plug up. : : -Larry Apperently there is a know weather bug in the game. If you join a race during qualifying some people get different weather than the rest.

In article <NooX6.149841$[email hidden]>, SimRacer <[email hidden]> writes

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>I've heard guys say that they will join a server just as it gets ready to go >to Q and their times are just that much faster. I heard about it over on >Papy's forums. I don't know what to make of it. Apparently in pickup races, >you need to join right before Q and your times will be faster. Some folks >call it a bug, some call it a cheat, <shrugs> dunno. > >Of course you're talking 2-3 seconds faster, but on what track. I could see >it on a road course, maybe even at Pocono. I've run 4-5 seconds faster than >others qualifying at Sears and been called a cheat, but I didn't. It was >fixed setup at that. I like to think it is a blend of talent and good >equipment (fast computer and video card along with a high end wheel). On >top >of the equipment I practice a lot too, but I have picked up a few tenths to >a second at some places just because my FPS were 75 instead of 25. >

Surely you would know whether there was something in this just by comparing your qualifying times online with the times you normally do offline. If you're doing similar times then you can't be gaining any kind of advantage. If you've run 4-5 seconds faster at Sears, but this is your normal pace then you have no reason to think it's anything other than 'a blend of talent and good equipment'

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>Back to the point, there is something to late arrivals qualifying faster. >Keep a lookout next time and see if the last guys to join were the ones up >front after Q. If so, Papy is aware as are a ton of guys over at Papy's >forums. > >Sim > >

<snip> -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -14.08

SimRacer wrote: > > I've heard guys say that they will join a server just as it gets ready to go > to Q and their times are just that much faster. I heard about it over on > Papy's forums. I don't know what to make of it. Apparently in pickup races, > you need to join right before Q and your times will be faster. Some folks > call it a bug, some call it a cheat, <shrugs> dunno. I've heard of such a bug when realistic weather is set. Don't know how true it is. -- Fester

Dega mostly. Daytona is affected as well. -Larry "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NooX6.149841$[email hidden]... > I've heard guys say that they will join a server just as it gets ready togo > to Q and their times are just that much faster. I heard about it over on > Papy's forums. I don't know what to make of it. Apparently in pickupraces, > you need to join right before Q and your times will be faster. Some folks > call it a bug, some call it a cheat, <shrugs> dunno. > > Of course you're talking 2-3 seconds faster, but on what track. I couldsee > it on a road course, maybe even at Pocono. I've run 4-5 seconds fasterthan > others qualifying at Sears and been called a cheat, but I didn't. It was > fixed setup at that. I like to think it is a blend of talent and good > equipment (fast computer and video card along with a high end wheel). Ontop > of the equipment I practice a lot too, but I have picked up a few tenthsto

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> a second at some places just because my FPS were 75 instead of 25. > > Back to the point, there is something to late arrivals qualifying faster. > Keep a lookout next time and see if the last guys to join were the ones up > front after Q. If so, Papy is aware as are a ton of guys over at Papy's > forums. > > Sim > > > > Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Rg6X6.117755$[email hidden]... > > Dave, > > > > There is DEFINETLY something going on. You're right. When one or two > guys > > qual 2-3 seconds faster than everyone else, especially under fixed, > > something is afoot. > > > > Especially when you know YOU can qual at the first or second position > > consistently, and you keep getting your but kicked by a huge margin. > > > > Or, when you have people you know are front-row qualifyers, day in and

day

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> > out, getting beat by 2 sec or more. > > > > Man, I wish there was a way to watch someone else qual... > > > > -Larry > > > > "Dave Pawlikowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:YB4X6.638$[email hidden]... > > > Larry - I've often thought the same thing. To see in a fixed Papy race > two > > > or three guys almost a second faster is weird. > > > > > > In the race, they don't take off like the qual. time would suggest, so > > > something is up. The lines I've seen are nothing special. > > > > > > I once tried the pitlane at Daytona on my second lap to cut a quicker > time > > > and was DQ'd instantly. If you stay on the grass you might cut time,

but

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> > > then you are coasting/sliding not driving so I really don't think it > would > > > be quicker. > > > > > > If these guys were just as fast in the race, I would understand. But > they > > > aren't. Papy fixed the no crash hack a few weeks ago, so maybe this is > > > another issue. > > > > > > ******************************** > > > Dave Pawlikowski > > > [email hidden] > > > www.cushdrive.com > > > www.luftwaffe-experten.com > > > ********************************* > > > " > Ok, folks. There is something going on here... > > > > > > > > When one or two cars can qualify 3 seconds faster than anyone else, > > > > something is not right. > > > > > > > > I've even seen this in FIXED setup races! > > > > > > > > The usual response is "It's my special Line" or something like that. > > Line > > > > my ass. > > > > > > > > I've heard rumors that some are cheating by going down pit road on

the

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> > > > Qualifying laps. Is that what is happening here? > > > > > > > > Is there any way to see someone _elses_ qualifying run? > > > > > > > > I think we have another security hole for Papy to plug up. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Peter, you missed the ENTIRE point. Please-re read my message. It's not just MY time. It's the time of well-known front-row qualifiers that are getting their asses kicked by a HUGE margin by nobodies that are lucky to finish the first lap in the top 20 sometimes. And we are talking 1, 2, and 3 seconds here sometimes. I would never say I am a Talladega Wizard, but I've got over 20,000 laps on that track starting from the hawaii days, and made level 15 on TEN more than once. I generally don't get my qual ass kicked by 3 seconds... By anybody... It's easy to start at 15th and only be 1/4 second behind the pole sitter. That is normal. What I am seeing is NOT normal. In other words, they can qualilfy and beat everybody, but when the race is over they are nowhere in site. Their cars do not 'perform' as their qual times would dictate. -Larry "Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:$[email hidden]... > In article <NooX6.149841$[email hidden]>, > SimRacer <[email hidden]> writes > >I've heard guys say that they will join a server just as it gets ready togo > >to Q and their times are just that much faster. I heard about it over on > >Papy's forums. I don't know what to make of it. Apparently in pickupraces, > >you need to join right before Q and your times will be faster. Some folks > >call it a bug, some call it a cheat, <shrugs> dunno. > > > >Of course you're talking 2-3 seconds faster, but on what track. I couldsee > >it on a road course, maybe even at Pocono. I've run 4-5 seconds fasterthan > >others qualifying at Sears and been called a cheat, but I didn't. It was > >fixed setup at that. I like to think it is a blend of talent and good > >equipment (fast computer and video card along with a high end wheel). On > >top > >of the equipment I practice a lot too, but I have picked up a few tenthsto

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> >a second at some places just because my FPS were 75 instead of 25. > > > > Surely you would know whether there was something in this just by > comparing your qualifying times online with the times you normally do > offline. If you're doing similar times then you can't be gaining any > kind of advantage. > > If you've run 4-5 seconds faster at Sears, but this is your normal pace > then you have no reason to think it's anything other than 'a blend of > talent and good equipment' > > >Back to the point, there is something to late arrivals qualifying faster. > >Keep a lookout next time and see if the last guys to join were the ones

up

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> >front after Q. If so, Papy is aware as are a ton of guys over at Papy's > >forums. > > > >Sim > > > > > > <snip> > -- > Peter Ives > Remove ALL_STRESS before replying > If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me > GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -14.08

Hello Larry, I have kinda' stopped N4 for the wreckers & just poor attitudes online but I have gone back a few times this week. I too noticed this strange situation. {especially in "fixed" setup races} It was 'really obvious' to me & when I first saw the post on here about this I thought 'Naaah this cant be!' but I too have seen the qual times 2-3secs ahead of mine where I am always with 10ths of 1st, 2nd or 3rd.. At first I thought it was me not being here in such a long time but as I got into about th 20th race I knew that something wasnt right!! Plus the hot-qual-ers were way back in the pack & I kepy ending up in the top 5 each race! Like urself, I have put 1000s of lap int N3 - N4 and this seems to be a new 'phenomenon' that doesnt seem kosher! I really do not know what's going on or if this is a hack or not but there's something stinking in Denmark & it aint he cheese...lol Thats my cent & 1/2 worth {fwiw}..:-) Thom_j. "Larry" wrote:

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| Peter, you missed the ENTIRE point. Please-re read my message. | | It's not just MY time. It's the time of well-known front-row qualifiers | that are getting their asses kicked by a HUGE margin by nobodies that are | lucky to finish the first lap in the top 20 sometimes. | | And we are talking 1, 2, and 3 seconds here sometimes. I would never say

I | am a Talladega Wizard, but I've got over 20,000 laps on that trackstarting | from the hawaii days, and made level 15 on TEN more than once. Igenerally

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| don't get my qual ass kicked by 3 seconds... By anybody... It's easy to | start at 15th and only be 1/4 second behind the pole sitter. That is | normal. What I am seeing is NOT normal. | | In other words, they can qualilfy and beat everybody, but when the race is | over they are nowhere in site. | | Their cars do not 'perform' as their qual times would dictate. | | -Larry

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I suggest, if the Sierra boards are still working, that both of you post messages about your experiences. I'm sure Eric B reads stuff here, but to make sure Papyrus is informed, use the Sierra message boards. dave henrie "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FN6Z6.33552$[email hidden]...

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> Hello Larry, > I have kinda' stopped N4 for the wreckers & just poor attitudes > online but I have gone back a few times this week. I too noticed > this strange situation. {especially in "fixed" setup races} > It was 'really obvious' to me & when I first saw the post on here > about this I thought 'Naaah this cant be!' but I too have seen the > qual times 2-3secs ahead of mine where I am always with 10ths > of 1st, 2nd or 3rd.. At first I thought it was me not being here in > such a long time but as I got into about th 20th race I knew that > something wasnt right!! Plus the hot-qual-ers were way back in > the pack & I kepy ending up in the top 5 each race! > Like urself, I have put 1000s of lap int N3 - N4 and this seems > to be a new 'phenomenon' that doesnt seem kosher! I really do > not know what's going on or if this is a hack or not but there's > something stinking in Denmark & it aint he cheese...lol > Thats my cent & 1/2 worth {fwiw}..:-) Thom_j. > > "Larry" wrote: > | Peter, you missed the ENTIRE point. Please-re read my message. > | > | It's not just MY time. It's the time of well-known front-row qualifiers > | that are getting their asses kicked by a HUGE margin by nobodies that

are > | lucky to finish the first lap in the top 20 sometimes. > | > | And we are talking 1, 2, and 3 seconds here sometimes. I would neversay > I > | am a Talladega Wizard, but I've got over 20,000 laps on that track > starting > | from the hawaii days, and made level 15 on TEN more than once. I > generally > | don't get my qual ass kicked by 3 seconds... By anybody... It's easyto > | start at 15th and only be 1/4 second behind the pole sitter. That is > | normal. What I am seeing is NOT normal. > | > | In other words, they can qualilfy and beat everybody, but when the raceis

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> | over they are nowhere in site. > | > | Their cars do not 'perform' as their qual times would dictate. > | > | -Larry > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001 > >

We're aware of a couple of possible exploits, and these will be addressed in the next patch release. - Eric "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FN6Z6.33552$[email hidden]...

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> Hello Larry, > I have kinda' stopped N4 for the wreckers & just poor attitudes > online but I have gone back a few times this week. I too noticed > this strange situation. {especially in "fixed" setup races} > It was 'really obvious' to me & when I first saw the post on here > about this I thought 'Naaah this cant be!' but I too have seen the > qual times 2-3secs ahead of mine where I am always with 10ths > of 1st, 2nd or 3rd.. At first I thought it was me not being here in > such a long time but as I got into about th 20th race I knew that > something wasnt right!! Plus the hot-qual-ers were way back in > the pack & I kepy ending up in the top 5 each race! > Like urself, I have put 1000s of lap int N3 - N4 and this seems > to be a new 'phenomenon' that doesnt seem kosher! I really do > not know what's going on or if this is a hack or not but there's > something stinking in Denmark & it aint he cheese...lol > Thats my cent & 1/2 worth {fwiw}..:-) Thom_j.

Ooops there is Eric now!! I just replied to Dave H's re to my post Eric & here you are!! Thanx for the info!! See everyone you never know who is lurking on RAS..lol Hear!! That DGF!! DO YA?? Cheers a Papy Fanatic For Years :-) Especially GPL!! Thom_j. "Eric Busch" wrote: | We're aware of a couple of possible exploits, and these will be addressedin

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| the next patch release. | | - Eric | | | "Thom j." wrote: | > Hello Larry, | > I have kinda' stopped N4 for the wreckers & just poor attitudes | > online but I have gone back a few times this week. I too noticed | > this strange situation. {especially in "fixed" setup races} | > It was 'really obvious' to me & when I first saw the post on here | > about this I thought 'Naaah this cant be!' but I too have seen the | > qual times 2-3secs ahead of mine where I am always with 10ths | > of 1st, 2nd or 3rd.. At first I thought it was me not being here in | > such a long time but as I got into about th 20th race I knew that | > something wasnt right!! Plus the hot-qual-ers were way back in | > the pack & I kept ending up in the top 5 each race! | > Like urself, I have put 1000s of lap in N3 - N4 and this seems | > to be a new 'phenomenon' that doesnt seem kosher! I really do | > not know what's going on or if this is a hack or not but there's | > something stinking in Denmark & it aint he cheese...lol | > Thats my cent & 1/2 worth {fwiw}..:-) Thom_j. | |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

Isn't this just the fenomenom called clock-smash, caused by laggy connections? This sometimes can produce some really weird times

no, two different animals...A clock smash is a problem with how the sim handles the lag of an internet connection. You cannot reliably re-produce it. However the Qualifying Cheaters have found a re-producable method to outqualify even vastly superior drivers. Papyrus has stated they are aware of this and other possible cheats and are working on a 2nd major patch to hopefully close those loopholes. dave henrie "Lister Storm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9hvj27$2so$[email hidden]...

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> > Isn't this just the fenomenom called clock-smash, caused by laggy > connections? > > This sometimes can produce some really weird times > >