rFactor review

After reading the A.S.S. I was ready for rFactor to surpass all other sims in every area. The reality seems to be far from this yet I can see the potential there and can only summise the reviewers were writing with a vision for what might come rather than the product they were reviewing. Throw in a political desire for rFactor to succeed over future competitors they have publicly fallen out with and it is hardly surprising the review has a degree of bias. That is not to say I am critical of rFactor, just that hopes were raised that it would raise the bar in all areas - physics, graphics, sound, control, gameplay etc. similar to the way GPL did in '98 and this clearly has not happened yet and we will need the community to evolve rFactor into the next generation sim it has the potential for, which is how it would appear to be designed. I certainly don't feel cheated, I let myself hype it partly from a desire to have a new generation of racing sims and partly from the A.S.S. review which I knew was from a group desperate for its success. The cost of rFactor is the same as I have spent on LFS which still has Alpha in its title. There are many similarities - neither feels particularly polished as a finished product - because neither is. RFactor will add more features (such as weather) in the future. I am quite happy rFactor has been released in its current development as the physics and graphics engine are essentially complete and we can enjoy these and start to develop the mods to enjoy them. The single player game and the interface doesn't seem very compelling other than to practice and have a bit of fun whilst the multiplayer will need leagues to get organised to administer the competition element (just as happened with GPL). rFactor adds no value here but again many of us would rather sample the physics of the trainer now rather than wait for an automated league structure or more compelling career and championship mode. The F1 lookalike feels like a desire to appeal to as wide an audience as possible rather than a serious attempt at F1 simulation. The looks, sound and feel all pale compared to the Trainer IMHO, plus the F1 AI seem all over the place compared with the Trainers. I look forward (already) to the Euro F3 mod and potential for online leagues along with some real tracks to race on. I believe rfactor will be the basis for the best sim racing for the immediate future but reviews placing it as the complete racing sim are stretching the imagination somewhat. Cheers Tony

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> That is not to say I am critical of rFactor, just that hopes were raised > that it would raise the bar in all areas - physics, graphics, sound, > control, gameplay etc. similar to the way GPL did in '98 and this > clearly has not happened yet and we will need the community to evolve > rFactor into the next generation sim it has the potential for, which is > how it would appear to be designed. >

I started reading this post, until mention of GPL cropped up. Once I saw that, I closed her down. Alanb

I would agree Tony that the trainers are a blast. The F1 cars are a joke imho, I spent all of 2 minutes with them and shut them down. "Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>> That is not to say I am critical of rFactor, just that hopes were raised >> that it would raise the bar in all areas - physics, graphics, sound, >> control, gameplay etc. similar to the way GPL did in '98 and this >> clearly has not happened yet and we will need the community to evolve >> rFactor into the next generation sim it has the potential for, which is >> how it would appear to be designed. >> > > I started reading this post, until mention of GPL cropped up. Once I saw > that, I closed her down. > > Alanb >

Alan Bernardo wrote: > I started reading this post, until mention of GPL cropped up. Once I saw > that, I closed her down. Perhaps I worded it badly then Alan. My point was not to compare rFactor with GPL but to compare the relative position to other sims of the period. In '98 there is little doubt GPL moved the genre forward in a big way. The A.S.S. review suggested to me that rFactor would be a similar leap forward in '05. If you do read the rest of my post you will see I do feel the rFactor trainers are probably the best experience in sim racing right now. However, as an overall package I am less convinced. For good leagues, providing the online aspect proves to be good the overall feel of a somewhat limited product will be immaterial anyway. Cheers Tony

Even with all the aids turned off, the cars seem to be more stable than the cars of LFS. This could be due to better default setups, or maybe it's because I turn on the aids while learning a track, then turn them off. I've played both, and although the formula in rFactor has a huge power to weight ratio advantage over the FO8 of LFS S2, the formula is easier to control (this is with all aids off), and you can push it much harder. One tough track for me is Toban in the formula car with the aids off, at least when I not using any force feedback (using twin joysticks instead of my momo racing wheel,too lazy to setup the wheel, the sticks are always ready to go). Most of the Toban GP track is OK, but about 3/4 into the lap, there's a right, then short straight with a seam/bump followed by a left. Even in 4th gear, it's enough to send the rears spinning if you're at full throttle. With the aids turned on, I never even noticed that seam there before. It's just enough that I have to let off and I can't take the following left at Still, I know it's just me, as I've seen a couple of players qualify in the 1:07's with all aids off, while my best is like a 1:09.6. With the aids on, I'm down to 1:08.2. Could just be a setup issue, once some good setups get posted, I'll start trying them out. To deal with traction control off, you either go real easy on the throttle in the low gears, or just run a gear taller at full throttle. A lot of players just don't use 1st gear, and you have to be pointed straight to go full throttle in 2nd gear. Although it's not realistic, turning on most of the aids (ell but the steering / braking aids) lets you really get agressive with the formula car, which is a fun factor for me.

Jeff Reid wrote: > Even with all the aids turned off, the cars seem to be more > stable than the cars of LFS. This could be due to better > default setups, or maybe it's because I turn on the aids > while learning a track, then turn them off. The Trainers with all aids off (and auto blipping edited off in one of the config files) are much less stable under braking which feels absolutely right. Go in a bit too hot and be abrupt in your changing down and you will know about it, the great thing is you can get it all back together if you are quick although you will lose time. Go in way too hot and round you go. Turning off the auto blipping option (also can be turned off in GTL don't know about GTR) makes for an additional challenge which I like. Cheers Tony

That is the best aspect of RFactor Tony but GTL seems to be similar and much better in other areas. Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Q4mSe.101693$[email hidden]...

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> Jeff Reid wrote: >> Even with all the aids turned off, the cars seem to be more >> stable than the cars of LFS. This could be due to better >> default setups, or maybe it's because I turn on the aids >> while learning a track, then turn them off. > > The Trainers with all aids off (and auto blipping edited off in one of the > config files) are much less stable under braking which feels absolutely > right. Go in a bit too hot and be abrupt in your changing down and you > will know about it, the great thing is you can get it all back together if > you are quick although you will lose time. Go in way too hot and round you > go. > > Turning off the auto blipping option (also can be turned off in GTL don't > know about GTR) makes for an additional challenge which I like. > > Cheers > Tony

"Jeff Reid" wrote... > <snip> although the formula in rFactor has a huge > power to weight ratio advantage over the FO8... The FO8 is actually fairly* easy to drive. It's just LFS defaults to full non-linear steering and doesn't even call it that ("centre reduction" or something to that effect). Took 12 simmers over an hour to figure that one out at the Belgian LAN. Nevertheless, it's my experience LFS is the easier game for experienced simmers and novices to pick up, compared to ISI-based stuff. Jan. =--- (*): it does remain a 450hp+ single seater. Did you expect it to be docile?

"Tony Rickard" wrote... > The A.S.S. review suggested to me that rFactor would be a similar leap > forward in '05. Exactly my main gripe with it. Judging from the demo they haven't moved it far enough ahead of previous incarnations to warrant a purchase. I can see myself going for GTLegends, because the game is solid enough, the subjectmatter interests me and it should come with a good version of the current Zolder circuit, but for me LFS S2 already has fantasy cars/tracks, a better tyre model, FF and online play. Jan. =---

I disagree that LFS is easier to pick up. I let a couple friends have a go with it and they couldn't do a single lap without spinning the car around. rFactor to me feels very solid and easy to drive in comparison. You can even <gasp> steer with the throttle in that and GTL :-) Don't get me wrong, I do really enjoy LFS too and have spent way too much time playing it ;-) Todd Wasson http://www.VirtualRC.com http://www.PerformanceSimulations.com http://www.PerformanceSimulations.com/files/ToddSim7a.wmv <---You ain't seen horrible graphics until you've seen this ;-)

>I would agree Tony that the trainers are a blast. The F1 cars are a joke imho, I spent all of 2 minutes with them and >shut them down. F1's on a small track are just that fast in real life. Pesonally, the F1 is my favorite car in rFactor. Here's a video of a real F1 doing a fast lap at Spa, a 4 mile track in about 1:45: http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/spaf1.wmv and F1C99-02 RH2004 mod's version of it (unlike the real thing I'm using manual shift in this 7 speed Ferrari): http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/f1cspa.wmv rFactors formula car at Toban (dual view video): http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/rfrf1tgp.wmv Now this is arcade fast: http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/nfsu2sx.wmv

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XMsSe.158644$E95.142265@fed1read01...

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> >I would agree Tony that the trainers are a blast. The F1 cars are a joke > >imho, I spent all of 2 minutes with them and shut them down. > > F1's on a small track are just that fast in real life. Pesonally, the > F1 is my favorite car in rFactor. > > Here's a video of a real F1 doing a fast lap at Spa, a 4 mile > track in about 1:45: > > http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/spaf1.wmv > > and F1C99-02 RH2004 mod's version of it (unlike the real thing > I'm using manual shift in this 7 speed Ferrari): > > http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/f1cspa.wmv > > rFactors formula car at Toban (dual view video): > > http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/rfrf1tgp.wmv > > Now this is arcade fast: > http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/nfsu2sx.wmv >

People act like they've never seen an onboard lap at Monaco. The cars hit 300kph there, and it's the slowest course on the schedule. -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XMsSe.158644$E95.142265@fed1read01... >> >I would agree Tony that the trainers are a blast. The F1 cars are a >> >joke imho, I spent all of 2 minutes with them and shut them down. >> >> F1's on a small track are just that fast in real life. Pesonally, the >> F1 is my favorite car in rFactor. >> >> Here's a video of a real F1 doing a fast lap at Spa, a 4 mile >> track in about 1:45: >> >> http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/spaf1.wmv >> >> and F1C99-02 RH2004 mod's version of it (unlike the real thing >> I'm using manual shift in this 7 speed Ferrari): >> >> http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/f1cspa.wmv >> >> rFactors formula car at Toban (dual view video): >> >> http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/rfrf1tgp.wmv >> >> Now this is arcade fast: >> http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/nfsu2sx.wmv >> > > People act like they've never seen an onboard lap at Monaco. The cars hit > 300kph there, and it's the slowest course on the schedule. > > > -- > David G Fisher

Great lap at Toban btw. :-) -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > People act like they've never seen an onboard lap at Monaco. The cars hit > 300kph there, and it's the slowest course on the schedule. > Yeah, the F1s seem ok to me. I don't know what people expect! Maybe they have all the aids on or something. Mind you, I have not done many laps in them yet - really enjoying those trainers! :)

>> People act like they've never seen an onboard lap at Monaco. The cars hit 300kph there, and it's the slowest course >> on the schedule. > Yeah, the F1s seem ok to me. I don't know what people expect! Maybe they have all the aids on or something. Hey I need those aids (at least traction control) to make my videos look cool, else I'd never be using 1st gear in the F1. I'm finally got into the 1:07's with aids on, haven't tried with all aids off again since my last session, where I just got to mid 1:09's. For me, it's about a 1.5 to 2 second difference per lap with an without aids. Part of the issue is a different setup is needed for no aids (taller gearing, more forward brake balance can help when not running any aids [except auto clutch]).

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > That is not to say I am critical of rFactor, just that hopes were raised > > that it would raise the bar in all areas - physics, graphics, sound, > > control, gameplay etc. similar to the way GPL did in '98 and this > > clearly has not happened yet and we will need the community to evolve > > rFactor into the next generation sim it has the potential for, which is > > how it would appear to be designed. > > > > I started reading this post, until mention of GPL cropped up. Once I saw > that, I closed her down. > > Alanb

Face it Alan - ALL future sims will be compared to GPL and/or NR2k3. That's simply the lay of the land because pay's sims were always better than everyone elses. Papy placed the bar, and IMHO, it's the job of future sims to excel above that bar. I happen to agree with Tony - rFactor ain't perfect, but it's highly modable, and there is already an active mod community supporting the sim. One last point - at least ISI is *trying* to give us what we want, to the point that they've gone rogue as far as using a "publisher" is concerned. They've even delivered a product. It's a whole helluva lot better than EA's continuing effort to deliver a decent nascar sim.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:47:23 GMT, Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote: <Snip nice review> In short my thoughts about rFactor is: Great graphics/sounds/'physics' Nice cars/tracks, and the possibility of mods is great. Weak controller support/replay facilities/netcode/ Bad AI Especially the AI/netcode worries me, since driving on your own gets boring very fast. So far the online races I've been in are like 1 hour practice/1 hour qualify/5 laps race....why on Earth do you want to practice/qualify 2 hours for a 7 minutes race? I'm sure this is adjustable, but the defaults choosen is weird. Furthermore I see mostly F1 cars online, with people 'driving' them like accelarate/corner/crash/etc. So far I haven't seen a single proper online race. (Alan, close your eyes) Those 'To Curve Grande Sprints' on GPL Monza were high class races compared to this... Cheers! Remco

Remco Moedt wrote:

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> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:47:23 GMT, Tony Rickard > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > <Snip nice review> > > In short my thoughts about rFactor is: Great graphics/sounds/'physics' > > Nice cars/tracks, and the possibility of mods is great. > > Weak controller support/replay facilities/netcode/

I just don't understand why people don't just use the Papy method for this! > > Bad AI This has been fixed.

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> > > Especially the AI/netcode worries me, since driving on your own gets > boring very fast. So far the online races I've been in are like 1 > hour practice/1 hour qualify/5 laps race....why on Earth do you want > to practice/qualify 2 hours for a 7 minutes race? I'm sure this is > adjustable, but the defaults choosen is weird.

It can be changed. > > Furthermore I see mostly F1 cars online, with people 'driving' them > like accelarate/corner/crash/etc. So far I haven't seen a single > proper online race. (Alan, close your eyes) Those 'To Curve Grande > Sprints' on GPL Monza were high class races compared to this... I raced on-line this morning in the Academy trainer against another 19 drivers drving ATs, and it was fantastic! Really good driving by everyone, from what I saw. No warp either. Don't know why people jump straight into the F1s. Accelerate/corner/crash just about sums them up!

> Hey I need those aids (at least traction control) to make my videos look > cool, else I'd never be using 1st gear in the F1. I'm finally got into the > 1:07's with aids on ... I updated the video, so it's a bit cleaner and faster (sub 1:07.5), link is still the same: http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/rfrf1tgp.wmv

> > Furthermore I see mostly F1 cars online, Maybe the first night, I saw more of a mix on the second night. > I raced on-line this morning in the Academy trainer against another 19 drivers drving ATs, How many survived? > Don't know why people jump straight into the F1s. Accelerate/corner/crash just about sums them up! I don't think the car matters, my one and only win online was a 20 lap race at Toban GP with the Howston. At the start, I pulled over and let all the cars go by, to avoid the early wrecks. My strategy was to conserve the tires and not pit at all, since pit time is pretty long. The race started with 15 cars and ended up with just 3. One cool effect with an online replay is that if you just jump to the end and back up a lap, you can see all the cars that left as ghost cars (the surviving cars go right though these cars).

"whooo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OZDSe.1561$[email hidden]... > > Don't know why people jump straight into the F1s. Accelerate/corner/crash > just about sums them up! they're compensating. ;) cheers steve

Steve Whitty wrote:

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> "whooo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OZDSe.1561$[email hidden]... > >>Don't know why people jump straight into the F1s. Accelerate/corner/crash >>just about sums them up! > > > they're compensating. ;) > > cheers > > steve > >

LOL!

> Don't know why people jump straight into the F1s. Having played Need For Speed Underground 2, er, uhm, make that having played F1C99-02, I like the faster pace of the F1's, and it's a lot easier to race if you let the cars go by at the start and end up with a clear track after most of the drivers crash (I can't keep up with the few players that are actually fast anyway). Also having played GPL helps quite a bit since most servers turn off all the assists (except auto-clutch).

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:59:05 -0700, "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> Don't know why people jump straight into the F1s. > >Having played Need For Speed Underground 2, er, uhm, make >that having played F1C99-02, I like the faster pace of the >F1's, and it's a lot easier to race if you let the cars go >by at the start and end up with a clear track after most >of the drivers crash (I can't keep up with the few players >that are actually fast anyway). Also having played GPL >helps quite a bit since most servers turn off all the assists >(except auto-clutch).

But that's the thing I wonder about...as long you're driving on your own the F1 is nice, but when you're racing others it's not. The F1 is difficult enough to keep on the road, let alone when someone is filling your mirrors..... Cheers! Remco

>"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote > One cool effect with an online replay is that if you just jump to the > end and back up a lap, you can see all the cars that left as ghost cars > (the surviving cars go right though these cars). That's not an effect, more like a bug. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> But that's the thing I wonder about...as long you're driving on your > own the F1 is nice, but when you're racing others it's not. The F1 is > difficult enough to keep on the road, let alone when someone is > filling your mirrors..... Because of the speed, the cars usually spread out pretty quickly, it's just a matter of surviving the first few turns. Of course starting at the back, you don't have to worry about someone filling your mirrors. Anyone you pass will probably stay passed as well. Then again, everyone can't start at the back of the pack, so the other rule. If another car is gaining on you, let it by. Eventually you end up in the right spot in field. Once players acclimate to the F1, the variation in braking points will diminish, and there should be fewer collisions.

I just got done trying out all the cars at Toban GP. All of the sedans, except for the rhez, and the trainer seem to be within a few seconds of each other, the rhez is a bit slower, and the F1 is in a class by itself. How would others here rank the sedans in terms of lap times? I assume that the Howstons would be the quickest, based on price.

"Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Weak controller support/replay facilities/netcode/ > Is your only issue with the netcode the prac/qual time? Other than that, and race reporting atm, it seems every bit as good as papy stuff so far. Arguably even better since collisions aren't exaggerated. This is the first sim to properly challenge Papy sims since..................well um..................um, ah.....................well, since forever!

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:13:03 +1000, "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Remco Moedt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Weak controller support/replay facilities/netcode/ >> > > Is your only issue with the netcode the prac/qual time? Other than that, >and race reporting atm, it seems every bit as good as papy stuff so far. >Arguably even better since collisions aren't exaggerated.

Yeah, the prac/qualy time is part of it, but also something I can't put my finger on yet. The other cars don't 'talk' with the road, it seems. It's a bit like they're floating above the road. I can't exactly see if the other guy is making a mistake, like locking a wheel. Yes, you see tire smoke, but so far I haven't seen from which tire. You also don't see the suspension move, so it's also hard to tell how hard someone is braking. Maybe these are options, maybe I've to crank op the graphics to see these things, time will tell. > This is the first sim to properly challenge Papy sims >since..................well um..................um, >ah.....................well, since forever! It has potential, that's for sure. Cheers! Remco

Byron Forbes wrote: > This is the first sim to properly challenge Papy sims > since..................well um..................um, > ah.....................well, since forever! Since RBR?

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Byron Forbes wrote: > >> This is the first sim to properly challenge Papy sims >> since..................well um..................um, >> ah.....................well, since forever! > > Since RBR?

No real multiplayer in RBR. Wasn't that always the critical component a sim had to have mastered to be the new king here at ras? -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > No real multiplayer in RBR. Wasn't that always the critical component > a sim had to have mastered to be the new king here at ras? > No it gets in via the Dave H rule. Any proggy that kicks my butt MUST be a true sim. Ergo...they ALL ARE!!! dh

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > No real multiplayer in RBR. Wasn't that always the critical component a > sim had to have mastered to be the new king here at ras? Ok David stop trolling, nobody here's gonna complain about the lack of multi in a rally sim. You remember your praised RC2000 and its multi? That wasn't fun. Anyway I don't see any mention of the word "Montoya" in this thread ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Remco Moedt" wrote...

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> Yeah, the prac/qualy time is part of it, but also something I > can't put my finger on yet. The other cars don't 'talk' with > the road, it seems. It's a bit like they're floating above the > road. I can't exactly see if the other guy is making a mistake, > like locking a wheel. Yes, you see tire smoke, but so far I > haven't seen from which tire. You also don't see the > suspension move, so it's also hard to tell how hard someone > is braking. Maybe these are options, maybe I've to crank up > the graphics to see these things, time will tell.

Well put(*). I also find I can't anticipate the other drivers the way I can in GPL/NR2003. And if you think it's bad with the guy directly in front, take a peek ahead. The way competitors are displayed there reminds me of the earliest Outrun games (sprites showing different angles of the car as it slides along the course). Honestly, I'm baffled this doesn't seem to bother most of the simmers playing this game. Jan. =--- (*): mind if I quote you on the mailing list of a league considering rFactor as the vehicle for its next season? -I'm fighting a losing battle and am in desperate need of ammo.

"ymenard" wrote... >> <snip> > Anyway I don't see any mention of the word "Montoya" in this thread ;) We've agreed he doesn't cut it in F1. <g> Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Si2Te.186936$[email hidden]...

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> "Remco Moedt" wrote... >> Yeah, the prac/qualy time is part of it, but also something I >> can't put my finger on yet. The other cars don't 'talk' with >> the road, it seems. It's a bit like they're floating above the >> road. I can't exactly see if the other guy is making a mistake, >> like locking a wheel. Yes, you see tire smoke, but so far I >> haven't seen from which tire. You also don't see the >> suspension move, so it's also hard to tell how hard someone >> is braking. Maybe these are options, maybe I've to crank up >> the graphics to see these things, time will tell. > > Well put(*). I also find I can't anticipate the other drivers the way I > can in GPL/NR2003. > > And if you think it's bad with the guy directly in front, take a peek > ahead. The way competitors are displayed there reminds me of the earliest > Outrun games (sprites showing different angles of the car as it slides > along the course). > > Honestly, I'm baffled this doesn't seem to bother most of the simmers > playing this game. > > Jan. > =--- > (*): mind if I quote you on the mailing list of a league considering > rFactor as the vehicle for its next season? -I'm fighting a losing battle > and am in desperate need of ammo.

Do you have the full version? It looks like I'm driving against the AI in multiplayer. The demo code is OLD code. That's why it was a multiplayer test demo. -- David G Fisher >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hk2Te.186937$[email hidden]...

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> "ymenard" wrote... >>> <snip> >> Anyway I don't see any mention of the word "Montoya" in this thread ;) > > We've agreed he doesn't cut it in F1. <g> > > Jan. > =---

He's being destroyed by Raikkonen. Second teammate to beat him (RS outqualified him and had 6 wins to his two, almost identical points). -- David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote: > Do you have the full version? > > It looks like I'm driving against the AI in multiplayer. I know what you mean but comparing your fellow online drivers to rfactor AI may not be seen as a compliment... Certainly my initial experience with multiplayer has been rock solid. Plus following a car it is clear to see if they are on the ragged edge (certainly in the trainers) and gain confidence in making a pass when the opportunity arises. I do think there may be a novelty factor in that it feels more physically and mentally challenging because it is new. Only time will tell. Cheers Tony

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Va4Te.103209$[email hidden]...

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> David G Fisher wrote: > >> Do you have the full version? >> >> It looks like I'm driving against the AI in multiplayer. > > I know what you mean but comparing your fellow online drivers to rfactor > AI may not be seen as a compliment... > > Certainly my initial experience with multiplayer has been rock solid. Plus > following a car it is clear to see if they are on the ragged edge > (certainly in the trainers) and gain confidence in making a pass when the > opportunity arises. > > I do think there may be a novelty factor in that it feels more physically > and mentally challenging because it is new. Only time will tell. > > Cheers > Tony

Ther past two days I've been on the same European server with guys like Polok, Mlodzinski and some other well known names. The driving looked pretty damn good to me. :-) -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:hk2Te.186937$[email hidden]... >> "ymenard" wrote... >>>> <snip> >>> Anyway I don't see any mention of the word "Montoya" in this thread ;) >> >> We've agreed he doesn't cut it in F1. <g> >> >> Jan. >> =--- > > He's being destroyed by Raikkonen. Second teammate to beat him (RS > outqualified him and had 6 wins to his two, almost identical points). > > > -- > David G Fisher

Six to four in favor of RS at Williams. -- David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote: > No real multiplayer in RBR. RBRnet isn't real multiplayer? The cool thing about RBR, besides the fact that it's an incredible simulator, is that it's possible for someone relatively skiled at C++ to add almost anything to it.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:57:22 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >(*): mind if I quote you on the mailing list of a league considering rFactor >as the vehicle for its next season? -I'm fighting a losing battle and am in >desperate need of ammo. Be my guest. Cheers! Remco

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 23:05:25 GMT, Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote: >Certainly my initial experience with multiplayer has been rock solid. >Plus following a car it is clear to see if they are on the ragged edge >(certainly in the trainers) and gain confidence in making a pass when >the opportunity arises. What I meant is that I don't see the suspension move, or see the nose dive while they're braking. I see it with my own car, just not with the others. Do you see it? Cheers! Remco

"David G Fisher" wrote... > > Do you have the full version? No. Indeed, it's worth stressing that my views are based on my impressions of the demo. > It looks like I'm driving against the AI in multiplayer. > > The demo code is OLD code. That's why it was a multiplayer test demo. Yes, and unless I'm very much mistaken there is no demo containing the "new" code. I'm not about to shell out for the game in order to possibly have my suspicions confirmed. Unless that video you posted is taken from a client replay from someone having a 250ms ping to the server and using the 56K bandwidth limit, I'm not taking anyone's word for ISI finally fixing the multi. One could make an impressive looking multi replay as far back as F1 2k1, as only when conditions got a little difficult did problems make themselves known. Since then it's been "we've nearly cracked it... it'll be fixed in the next game". There's a lot more broadband connections out there now and judgement is bound to suffer from the "shiny new toy"-factor and the rosy spec promise of a community game. I'm staying right here on this fence until I'm convinced it's fixed. Jan. =---

But you aren't staying on the fence. You said in another post you are trying to keep your league from switching to rFactor based on your experiences with the old test code. How does that make any sense at all? -- David G Fisher "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_PkTe.187557$[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" wrote... >> >> Do you have the full version? > > No. Indeed, it's worth stressing that my views are based on my impressions > of the demo. > >> It looks like I'm driving against the AI in multiplayer. >> >> The demo code is OLD code. That's why it was a multiplayer test demo. > > Yes, and unless I'm very much mistaken there is no demo containing the > "new" code. I'm not about to shell out for the game in order to possibly > have my suspicions confirmed. Unless that video you posted is taken from a > client replay from someone having a 250ms ping to the server and using the > 56K bandwidth limit, I'm not taking anyone's word for ISI finally fixing > the multi. > > One could make an impressive looking multi replay as far back as F1 2k1, > as only when conditions got a little difficult did problems make > themselves known. Since then it's been "we've nearly cracked it... it'll > be fixed in the next game". > > There's a lot more broadband connections out there now and judgement is > bound to suffer from the "shiny new toy"-factor and the rosy spec promise > of a community game. I'm staying right here on this fence until I'm > convinced it's fixed. > > Jan. > =--- > >

Jan Verschueren wrote: > > Yes, and unless I'm very much mistaken there is no demo containing the "new" > code. I'm not about to shell out for the game in order to possibly have my > suspicions confirmed. There's a 48 hour money back guarantee on the full game, I would have thought that was enough of a "demo" ? :) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

"David G Fisher" wrote... > But you aren't staying on the fence. > > You said in another post you are trying to keep your league from > switching to rFactor based on your experiences with the old test > code. Let's just say I feel it nescessary to dampen the enthousiasm for new. Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> "David G Fisher" wrote... > >>But you aren't staying on the fence. >> >>You said in another post you are trying to keep your league from >>switching to rFactor based on your experiences with the old test >>code. > > > Let's just say I feel it nescessary to dampen the enthousiasm for new. > > Jan. > =--- > >

For Chrissake, it's a excellent sim and costs less than one night on the beer! Buy it and drive it. Or just stop commenting!

"Jan Verschueren" wrote... > > Let's just say I feel it nescessary to dampen the enthousiasm for new. ...toys there. Accidentally deleted part of that sentence and didn't notice. Jan. =---

"whooo" wrote... >> <snip> > For Chrissake, it's a excellent sim and costs less than one night > on the beer! Buy it and drive it. Or just stop commenting! Oh, but I'm a great fan of ISI based sims, don't get me wrong. For single player they're excellent and once mod teams start churning out tracks and RL carsets for rFactor I'm almost certain to buy it. I just find it hard to believe what I'm reading these days. Jan. =---

"whooo" wrote... >> <snip> > <snip> Or just stop commenting! No, sorry, can't do that. As a regular, I feel I have a responsibility towards the group. I may be wrong in this instance, I don't know, but unless I know for sure, I must advise caution. Jan. =---

"David G Fisher" wrote... > <snip> Yes, it was when you first made that argument here I agreed JPM had not lived up to my expectations. Jan. =---

"Goy Larsen" wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Jan Verschueren wrote: >> <snip> > There's a 48 hour money back guarantee on the full game, I would > have thought that was enough of a "demo" ? :) Yes, I know and I'm sure the guys wouldn't mind if I did return it, but I wouldn't feel good about doing it that way. C'mon uncle, you know me better than that. Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3CoTe.187758$[email hidden]...

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> "David G Fisher" wrote... >> <snip> > > Yes, it was when you first made that argument here I agreed JPM had not > lived up to my expectations. > > Jan. > =---

This year has been even worse for JPM compared to his teammate. Outqualified 11 to 3. This past weekend KR had a full tank of fuel and still outqualified him. Would of beaten him from 11th starting position if he didn't have to pit to fix a bad tire. KR has six wins compared to his two. KR had a nine to two advantage in fastest race laps going into Monza (don't know Monza result). Not even close. -- David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" wrote...

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> This year has been even worse for JPM compared to his teammate. > Outqualified 11 to 3. This past weekend KR had a full tank of fuel > and still outqualified him. Would of beaten him from 11th starting > position if he didn't have to pit to fix a bad tire. > > KR has six wins compared to his two. > > KR had a nine to two advantage in fastest race laps going into Monza > (don't know Monza result). > > Not even close.

Do I sense a bit of a mission here? -I agree: wanker, also-ran. No need to convince me further. Still don't like the Fin, though, but that's personal. Never liked Senna either. Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> "whooo" wrote... > >>><snip> >> >><snip> Or just stop commenting! > > > No, sorry, can't do that. As a regular, I feel I have a responsibility > towards the group. > > I may be wrong in this instance, I don't know,

You are in no position to comment, then! > but unless I know for sure, I must advise caution. Unless you know for sure, your comments are worthless.

Jan Verschueren wrote: > Oh, but I'm a great fan of ISI based sims, don't get me wrong. For single > player they're excellent and once mod teams start churning out tracks and RL > carsets for rFactor I'm almost certain to buy it. > > I just find it hard to believe what I'm reading these days. Jan, I have not been a great fan of ISI sims having had some difficulty over the years with ever getting a decent controller setup. They always felt somewhat dead to me. I commented on the rFactor demo that the controller feel appeared to have been vastly improved over previous versions at least for me. However, I didn't ditch my other sims for the rFactor demo. I simply felt optimistic for the new sim having tried and ditched all the previous evolutions. The demo rFactor car felt pretty good but was hardly compelling and it was parked on my hard disk. With the updated physics of the full version the road cars still aren't very compelling for me with the exception of the Howston H-6 with all the upgrades (except 4WD) which is fun. However, the trainer open wheelers and the F3 mods are in a different league to the demo rfactor cars. This confirms my optimism in the demo, the demo itself pales into insignificance now. Some will be disappointed that only 2 variants of the cars in rFactor are what makes it stand out. No doubt mods will follow to create that variety in multiplayer races, however spec racing so far has proved to be great fun. For sure it lacks the completeness to make a great online series out of and this will take time. Yet I would strongly recommend you purchase the full version to enjoy the cars that are working very well and make your own judgement. It is hardly as if we get a new racing sim every month to invest in after all. Cheers Tony

"whooo" wrote... >> I may be wrong in this instance, I don't know, > > You are in no position to comment, then! Wrong. I know the lineage of the game intimately. In fact, at times, I have been the lone proponent of the series on this group. However, this also means I know first impressions can deceive and it might be nescessary to tone down the comments of those just being exposed to the ISI way of going about sims (and that goes both ways, BTW). >> but unless I know for sure, I must advise caution. > Unless you know for sure, your comments are worthless. No, there is a long history of not being able to fix what annoys people most with these games and I'm sure that in a film scenario it would turn out they found the one line of offending code that turns the whole deal around, but not in the real world. I've talked straight on every game so far and I'm not about to change. Self-publishing but not going the established shareware route? -fishy. Jan. =---

> Oh, but I'm a great fan of ISI based sims, don't get me wrong. For single > player they're excellent and once mod teams start churning out tracks andRL > carsets for rFactor I'm almost certain to buy it. > > I just find it hard to believe what I'm reading these days. > > Jan. > =--- Jan, I have to agree w/ Tony here, you really should try it for the Open wheel trainer & the F3 Mod. Most fun I've had at a computer since The Pits/Project Wildfire mods of NR2003. If only I could find more time............ -Brian

Jan I can tell you this. Aussie server. Fella joins on 56k. He was in Italy. around 450 ping. Unless you knew where he was, you would've thought he was local connection. It was the first time this fella had been able to join and race any sim on 56k to australian servers. Hi was extremely happy. Papy no longer holds the title for net code. If the server is set right, the net code is solid. cheers steve "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iHoTe.187764$[email hidden]...

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> "Goy Larsen" wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> Jan Verschueren wrote: >>> <snip> >> There's a 48 hour money back guarantee on the full game, I would >> have thought that was enough of a "demo" ? :) > > Yes, I know and I'm sure the guys wouldn't mind if I did return it, but I > wouldn't feel good about doing it that way. > > C'mon uncle, you know me better than that. > > Jan. > =--- > >

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G8pTe.187792$[email hidden]...

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> "David G Fisher" wrote... >> This year has been even worse for JPM compared to his teammate. >> Outqualified 11 to 3. This past weekend KR had a full tank of fuel >> and still outqualified him. Would of beaten him from 11th starting >> position if he didn't have to pit to fix a bad tire. >> >> KR has six wins compared to his two. >> >> KR had a nine to two advantage in fastest race laps going into Monza >> (don't know Monza result). >> >> Not even close. > > Do I sense a bit of a mission here? -I agree: wanker, also-ran. No need to > convince me further. > > Still don't like the Fin, though, but that's personal. Never liked Senna > either. > > Jan. > =---

No mission. You and ymenard poked me in the ribs and I poked back. :-p -- David G Fisher

whooo wrote: > For Chrissake, it's a excellent sim and costs less than one night on the > beer! You drink 2 cases of Guinness in one sitting?

jason moyer wrote:

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> whooo wrote: > > >>For Chrissake, it's a excellent sim and costs less than one night on the >>beer! > > > You drink 2 cases of Guinness in one sitting? >

rF cost me 30UKP. I can piss 30UKp up against the wall in one night, no problem at all.

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> "whooo" wrote... > >>>I may be wrong in this instance, I don't know, >> >>You are in no position to comment, then! > > > Wrong. I know the lineage of the game intimately. In fact, at times, I have > been the lone proponent of the series on this group. However, this also > means I know first impressions can deceive and it might be nescessary to > tone down the comments of those just being exposed to the ISI way of going > about sims (and that goes both ways, BTW). > > >>>but unless I know for sure, I must advise caution. >> >>Unless you know for sure, your comments are worthless. > > > No, there is a long history of not being able to fix what annoys people most > with these games and I'm sure that in a film scenario it would turn out they > found the one line of offending code that turns the whole deal around, but > not in the real world. > > I've talked straight on every game so far and I'm not about to change. > Self-publishing but not going the established shareware route? -fishy. > > Jan. > =--- > >

I've tried it and you haven't. The open wheel trainer is spot on, and has a better feel than the GPL 65 mod. Until you have rF on your hard drive, your comments are worthless.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:18:12 GMT, Jan Verschueren wrote: > "whooo" wrote... >>> <snip> >> <snip> Or just stop commenting! > > No, sorry, can't do that. As a regular, I feel I have a responsibility > towards the group. As a long-time regular to RAS, you should know that the activity a new sim creates is usually indicative of its quality. rFactor has created (and for now, sustained) quite a buzz here in RAS, so I'd consider it your moral obligation to give it a go! ;) All the best, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Jan Verschueren wrote: > >> <snip> > > There's a 48 hour money back guarantee on the full game, I would > > have thought that was enough of a "demo" ? :) > > Yes, I know and I'm sure the guys wouldn't mind if I did return it, but I > wouldn't feel good about doing it that way. > > C'mon uncle, you know me better than that.

Not sure where you're going with this, first you argue that won't buy it because there's no demo and when it's pointed out that there's a 48 hour money back satisfaction guarantee, you say that's not something you'd want to take advantage of and you'd rather have them make a limited demo version ? Always knew you were a bit weird :) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

Uwe Schürkamp wrote: > As a long-time regular to RAS, you should know that the activity a new > sim creates is usually indicative of its quality. If that were the case, F1C would have generated substantially more activity. rFactor is subtly better in certain areas, but it's definitely not a quantum leap forward.

On 7 Sep 2005 06:13:39 -0700, jason moyer wrote: > > If that were the case, F1C would have generated substantially more > activity. rFactor is subtly better in certain areas, but it's > definitely not a quantum leap forward. 30+ drivers in an online race is "subtly better in certain areas" than F1C? Now there's an understatement if ever I saw one ;) -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"whooo" wrote... >> <snip> > I've tried it and you haven't. The open wheel trainer is spot > on, and has a better feel than the GPL 65 mod. I'm sure it has, F1 2k1 already outpaced GPL in that area a couple of years back. Jan. =---