GPL Watkins Glen; todays track

I know that chicanes have been added and tracks modified heavily in some cases, such as Silverstone, but i did not know Watkins glen had udergone such radical changes before the pits. http://simracingconnection.virtualave.net/terratrax.html Is the GPL track correct! the scaling does not seem realistic? Paul

The only thing I see wrong is I can't find my Dad and me standing just past the esses at Wedgewood Road (outside) ;-) Paul wrote:

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> > I know that chicanes have been added and tracks modified heavily in some > cases, such as Silverstone, but i did not know Watkins glen had udergone > such radical changes before the pits. > > http://simracingconnection.virtualave.net/terratrax.html > > Is the GPL track correct! the scaling does not seem realistic? > Paul

>"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote > Is the GPL track correct! the scaling does not seem realistic? The track went into major change in 1971. In fact if you check out the terraserver image you can visualise the old frontstretch and pit section by checking the little stretch after the first turn. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

It sure did Fran�ois.. This "ole' koger" remembers it well!! :-) "ymenard" wrote: | The track went into major change in 1971. In fact if you check out the | terraserver image you can visualise the old frontstretch and pit sectionby

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| checking the little stretch after the first turn. | -- | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> | -- May the Downforce be with you... | -- http://www.ymenard.com/ | -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez | Corporation - helping America into the New World...

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On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:35:55 +0100, "Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I know that chicanes have been added and tracks modified heavily in some >cases, such as Silverstone, but i did not know Watkins glen had udergone >such radical changes before the pits. > >http://simracingconnection.virtualave.net/terratrax.html > >Is the GPL track correct! the scaling does not seem realistic?

The Nascar Glen (N3?) was a lot wider than GPL's Glen it seems, so perhaps the track width was adjusted? Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

Remember when time in response to this. They ran it in the streets when it was a F1 course and not a NASCAR. Storm out "Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9hb2tf$evj$[email hidden]...

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> I know that chicanes have been added and tracks modified heavily in some > cases, such as Silverstone, but i did not know Watkins glen had udergone > such radical changes before the pits. > > http://simracingconnection.virtualave.net/terratrax.html > > Is the GPL track correct! the scaling does not seem realistic? > Paul > >

I remember when they raced thru the streets very well! Now this was something see!! Wow!! :-) Cheers Thom_j. "Storm_1" wrote: | Remember when time in response to this. They ran it in the streets whenit | was a F1 course and not a NASCAR. | Storm out --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

The street course and it's replacement (4.5 miles?) was for mostly Sports Cars. F1 (full Grand Prix) started on 2.3 mile track you see in GPL in 1961. It was won by Innes Ireland, Lotus. Jim Clark passed Roger Penske's Cooper, late in the race for Lotus to finish 7th to Roger's 8th. I can still remember standing across from the Lotus pit and seeing his crew literally jumping for joy when he came around ahead of Roger. I wonder how many people know what a really talented driver Roger Penske was. He retired from racing soon after that I think. arcman Storm_1 wrote:

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> > Remember when time in response to this. They ran it in the streets when it > was a F1 course and not a NASCAR. > > Storm out > > "Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9hb2tf$evj$[email hidden]... > > I know that chicanes have been added and tracks modified heavily in some > > cases, such as Silverstone, but i did not know Watkins glen had udergone > > such radical changes before the pits. > > > > http://simracingconnection.virtualave.net/terratrax.html > > > > Is the GPL track correct! the scaling does not seem realistic? > > Paul > > > >

The first race at Watkins Glen was 1948, a 6.x mile track that started in the village then ran out of town and came back in. 1953(?) there was a second course made on top of the hill right next to the current track, If I remember right that was 3 miles long(?). In GPL, the access road going across the grid is part of that second course. Next came the GPL course. Then in 70/71 came the current with the boot. Then in the eighties came the McDonalds chacain (InnerLoop). Those are all the different layouts to date. :-) The boot only added one mile to the 2.4 mile (nacsar (short) track)). "Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The street course and it's replacement (4.5 miles?) was for mostly > Sports Cars. F1 (full Grand Prix) started on 2.3 mile track you see in > GPL in 1961.---clipped some good info---

I was speaking of F1. AFAIK it ran in the streets of Watkins Glen until the early 70s As a side note, I live an hour or so from the course. Storm out "Michael Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i6G_6.30477$[email hidden]... > The first race at Watkins Glen was 1948, a 6.x mile track that started > in the village then ran out of town and came back in. 1953(?) there was a > second course made on top of the hill right next to the current track, IfI > remember right that was 3 miles long(?). In GPL, the access road going > across the grid is part of that second course. Next came the GPL course. > Then in 70/71 came the current with the boot. Then in the eighties camethe > McDonalds chacain (InnerLoop). Those are all the different layouts todate.

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> :-) > > The boot only added one mile to the 2.4 mile (nacsar (short) track)). > > > "Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > The street course and it's replacement (4.5 miles?) was for mostly > > Sports Cars. F1 (full Grand Prix) started on 2.3 mile track you see in > > GPL in 1961. > ---clipped some good info--- > >

Storm_1 wrote:

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> > I was speaking of F1. AFAIK it ran in the streets of Watkins Glen until the > early 70s > > As a side note, I live an hour or so from the course. > > Storm out

<snip> No, Storm_1. That is incorrecto! However, that reminds me of another story ;-) In early years 1961, 62? 63? Ferrari had a garage in the Watkins Glen town I think because as I came to understand, Mr. Ferrari would not let his cars stay in the garage that others used because of some Ford money involved in the building? Maybe in '61 all the teams had to find garage space in the town and that is why I saw this vignette that I will never forget. One year, and I'll bet it was 1961, I was leaving the 2.3 "GPL" track by going down that long hill that comes out between Montour Falls and the town of Watkins Glen, and what did I see that I will never forget? Graham Hill being pulled behind a car or truck with a State Trouper's car in attendance. Not only that but what was so funny was that Graham had a NY State license plate hung around his neck, to comply with the law I guess? I think Graham was "doing" a little "Monty Python" there too, even before there was a "Monty Python." I also live about an hour away too, we are blessed. Wish CART would return there... arcman

This would have made more sense if I had mentioned that Graham Hill was In the BRM when he was having his Car pulled! Christopher G Rossie wrote: <snip>

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> Maybe in '61 all the teams had to find garage space in the town and that > is > why I saw this vignette that I will never forget. > > One year, and I'll bet it was 1961, I was leaving the 2.3 "GPL" track by > going down > that long hill that comes out between Montour Falls and the town of > Watkins Glen, and what did > I see that I will never forget? Graham Hill being pulled behind a car or

<snip> > arcman

"Storm_1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tdJ_6.12$[email hidden]... > I was speaking of F1. AFAIK it ran in the streets of Watkins Glen untilthe > early 70s > > As a side note, I live an hour or so from the course. > > Storm out Same here, One Hour from the course. I grew up at the track hanging around all the history buffs, not to mention crewing for SCCA club drivers, Trans-Am and Formula Atlantic teams at the track. My camper is still parked in the RSI lot, all though I haven't been there since 99.

"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... <BW snip>> I'd like to see GTP/GTU come to the Glen. Storm out Stormcrow says _Lord of the Rings_ Dec 19 '01 your local MoviePlex > I also live about an hour away too, we are blessed. >Wish CART would > return there... > arcman

"Storm_1> I'd like to see GTP/GTU come to the Glen. > > Storm out(snip) The Grand Am series was just there,, about as close to the GTP days as you'll get I imagine. (paste) > Stormcrow says _Lord of the Rings_ Dec 19 '01 your local MoviePlex Yeehaw...another fan. Ain't it cool News says there will be at least one 30 minute special about LOTR before the movie is released. Probably on Fox, hosted by Liv Tyler(Arwen Undomiel) dave henrie

Fan of LOTR since .... Backshi's versions were HORRID. Speaking of Backshi, he said some thing about a better job of "my movies" and some how he's got the rights to the books? I hope that the LOTR series that starts in Dec is better. Can't see how it won't be as it's live action and total length is 10 hours. each clocking in at 3h20m. Stormcrow out. LOTR part 1 at the local MoviePlex 19Dec01 www.lordoftherings.net www.lordoftherings.com "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:P1U_6.266216$[email hidden]...

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> > "Storm_1> I'd like to see GTP/GTU come to the Glen. > > > > Storm out > (snip) > The Grand Am series was just there,, about as close to the GTP days as > you'll get I imagine. > (paste) > > Stormcrow says _Lord of the Rings_ Dec 19 '01 your local MoviePlex > Yeehaw...another fan. Ain't it cool News says there will be at least

one > 30 minute special about LOTR before the movie is released. Probably onFox, > hosted by Liv Tyler(Arwen Undomiel) > dave henrie > >

"Storm_1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:J32%6.2133$[email hidden]... > Fan of LOTR since .... Backshi's versions were HORRID. Speaking of > Backshi, he said some thing about a better job of "my movies" and some how > he's got the rights to the books? > I hope that the LOTR series that starts in Dec is better. Can't see howit > won't be as it's live action and total length is 10 hours. each clockingin > at 3h20m. Last I heard, they would be closer to two hours each with the first one probably 2 1/2 hours for the extra history needed to open the story. I suspect a later DVD pressing could include the extra footage... (proof of geekiness) I used to collect the calendars and I would take all the previous years pictures and place them in Chronological order on my bedroom wall...(not how they were in the calendars, but sorted by which picture came before or after each one in the stories.) (proof of geekiness concluded) dave henrie

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> > Stormcrow out. > LOTR part 1 at the local MoviePlex 19Dec01 > www.lordoftherings.net www.lordoftherings.com > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:P1U_6.266216$[email hidden]... > > > > "Storm_1> I'd like to see GTP/GTU come to the Glen. > > > > > > Storm out > > (snip) > > The Grand Am series was just there,, about as close to the GTP days as > > you'll get I imagine. > > (paste) > > > Stormcrow says _Lord of the Rings_ Dec 19 '01 your local MoviePlex > > Yeehaw...another fan. Ain't it cool News says there will be at least > one > > 30 minute special about LOTR before the movie is released. Probably on > Fox, > > hosted by Liv Tyler(Arwen Undomiel) > > dave henrie > > > > > >

I heard a nasty rumor that YET AGAIN Tom Bombadil has been ingraciously snubbed, and will not appear in this film version of the tale, either. Grrr... This was a while back, maybe they've wised up since then. 2 1/2 hours is NOT enough time to get everything in... 3 1/3 might do it. I always figured the only way to really make a film audience understand Frodo's weariness on the plains of Mordor would be to make the theater about 95 deg F, and have that segment of the film last about 5 hours. Dave, I *had* some of those calendars. Don't know where they are, probably in the same landfill with all my Micronauts. Grrrr... 170 days to go... Gerald "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<M58%6.269370$[email hidden]>...

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> "Storm_1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:J32%6.2133$[email hidden]... > > Fan of LOTR since .... Backshi's versions were HORRID. Speaking of > > Backshi, he said some thing about a better job of "my movies" and some how > > he's got the rights to the books? > > I hope that the LOTR series that starts in Dec is better. Can't see how > it > > won't be as it's live action and total length is 10 hours. each clocking > in > > at 3h20m. > Last I heard, they would be closer to two hours each with the first one > probably 2 1/2 hours for the extra history needed to open the story. I > suspect a later DVD pressing could include the extra footage... > (proof of geekiness) > I used to collect the calendars and I would take all the previous years > pictures and place them in Chronological order on my bedroom wall...(not how > they were in the calendars, but sorted by which picture came before or after > each one in the stories.) > (proof of geekiness concluded) > dave henrie > > > > > Stormcrow out. > > LOTR part 1 at the local MoviePlex 19Dec01 > > www.lordoftherings.net www.lordoftherings.com > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:P1U_6.266216$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Storm_1> I'd like to see GTP/GTU come to the Glen. > > > > > > > > Storm out > > > (snip) > > > The Grand Am series was just there,, about as close to the GTP days as > > > you'll get I imagine. > > > (paste) > > > > Stormcrow says _Lord of the Rings_ Dec 19 '01 your local MoviePlex > > > Yeehaw...another fan. Ain't it cool News says there will be at least > one > > > 30 minute special about LOTR before the movie is released. Probably on > Fox, > > > hosted by Liv Tyler(Arwen Undomiel) > > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > > >

"Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I heard a nasty rumor that YET AGAIN Tom Bombadil has been > ingraciously snubbed, and will not appear in this film version of the > tale, either. Grrr... I've also heard ol Tom will be cut. We will get to see Bilbo's stone trolls and Moria & the Balrog so Something had to go. Several of the minor characters, like the ELF who saves Frodo have been combined with other characters.(This is fairly common in book-to-movie conversions)

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> > This was a while back, maybe they've wised up since then. 2 1/2 hours > is NOT enough time to get everything in... 3 1/3 might do it. > > I always figured the only way to really make a film audience > understand Frodo's weariness on the plains of Mordor would be to make > the theater about 95 deg F, and have that segment of the film last > about 5 hours.

I had kinda the totally opposite expericence when DUNE first was released. Went alone around Christmas, and the heater at the Theater was broken, so there I was watching a dang desert movie with gloves on, a heavy coat and frozen feet. > > Dave, I *had* some of those calendars. Don't know where they are, > probably in the same landfill with all my Micronauts. Grrrr...I tried to scan some once, but they were huge...There are some LOTR artwork sites out there, perhaps others have done it right. dave henrie > > 170 days to go... > > Gerald

"Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I heard a nasty rumor that YET AGAIN Tom Bombadil has been > ingraciously snubbed, and will not appear in this film version of the > tale, either. Grrr... Yeah but think about how all the other characters felt when he got his own book!!! Besides, I don't know if Tara Reid (young, blonde, need I say more?)could pull off playing his Companion Goldberry. dh