WSC: History repeats itself?

<SATIRE> Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there was no rejoicing. Now I see that Empire Interactive -- the publisher who is bringing us the West brothers' WSC, the current most highly-anticipated sim which promises to be every bit as good as GPL -- is also working on a "Starsky & Hutch" game. Could THIS be another huge bait-and-switch like we saw with "Trans Am Racing," perhaps??? Let's hope there's not a trend developing here . . . </SATIRE> Just to prove I'm not kidding about the "Starsky & Hutch" game, check this out: http://www.empireinteractive.com/uk/games_menu/Index_starsky.htm This COULD be fun, actually -- I imagine it will be much like "Driver" (and hopefully NOTHING like the "Dukes of Hazzard"). ;-) -- JB

bite your tongue JB and go to your room for even suggesting such a thing... dave henrie "John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > <SATIRE> > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am

LoL, we haven't even seen WSC yet... "John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (33 lines)

> <SATIRE> > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am > Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated > sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. > > Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the > store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there > was no rejoicing. > > Now I see that Empire Interactive -- the publisher who is bringing us > the West brothers' WSC, the current most highly-anticipated sim which > promises to be every bit as good as GPL -- is also working on a > "Starsky & Hutch" game. Could THIS be another huge bait-and-switch > like we saw with "Trans Am Racing," perhaps??? > > Let's hope there's not a trend developing here . . . > > </SATIRE> > > Just to prove I'm not kidding about the "Starsky & Hutch" game, check > this out: > > http://www.empireinteractive.com/uk/games_menu/Index_starsky.htm > > This COULD be fun, actually -- I imagine it will be much like "Driver" > (and hopefully NOTHING like the "Dukes of Hazzard"). > > ;-) > > -- JB > >

(Positive spin) WSC is released, and then S&H is released using the WSC backbone... proves to be a way to make a profit off of sim racing engines. money from 2 products, with the development costs of 1 and a half. John Bodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (33 lines)

> <SATIRE> > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am > Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated > sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. > > Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the > store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there > was no rejoicing. > > Now I see that Empire Interactive -- the publisher who is bringing us > the West brothers' WSC, the current most highly-anticipated sim which > promises to be every bit as good as GPL -- is also working on a > "Starsky & Hutch" game. Could THIS be another huge bait-and-switch > like we saw with "Trans Am Racing," perhaps??? > > Let's hope there's not a trend developing here . . . > > </SATIRE> > > Just to prove I'm not kidding about the "Starsky & Hutch" game, check > this out: > > http://www.empireinteractive.com/uk/games_menu/Index_starsky.htm > > This COULD be fun, actually -- I imagine it will be much like "Driver" > (and hopefully NOTHING like the "Dukes of Hazzard"). > > ;-) > > -- JB > >

And more then likely never will ! :( "RegularRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YIu_6.3203$[email hidden]... > LoL, we haven't even seen WSC yet... >

John Bodin wrote:

Quoted text (28 lines)

> > <SATIRE> > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am > Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated > sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. > > Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the > store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there > was no rejoicing. > > Now I see that Empire Interactive -- the publisher who is bringing us > the West brothers' WSC, the current most highly-anticipated sim which > promises to be every bit as good as GPL -- is also working on a > "Starsky & Hutch" game. Could THIS be another huge bait-and-switch > like we saw with "Trans Am Racing," perhaps??? > > Let's hope there's not a trend developing here . . . > > </SATIRE> > > Just to prove I'm not kidding about the "Starsky & Hutch" game, check > this out: > > http://www.empireinteractive.com/uk/games_menu/Index_starsky.htm > > This COULD be fun, actually -- I imagine it will be much like "Driver" > (and hopefully NOTHING like the "Dukes of Hazzard").

I sure hope you're wrong John! But boy do Starsky & Hutch bring back the memories. I used to have a Gran Torino Sport just like they had. Kinda miss that 'ol car... <g> -- Fester

Maybe it is a hidden plot where at the last second, they will change it from World Sports Car to Indy Racing League 2001. JB John Bodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (33 lines)

> <SATIRE> > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am > Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated > sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. > > Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the > store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there > was no rejoicing. > > Now I see that Empire Interactive -- the publisher who is bringing us > the West brothers' WSC, the current most highly-anticipated sim which > promises to be every bit as good as GPL -- is also working on a > "Starsky & Hutch" game. Could THIS be another huge bait-and-switch > like we saw with "Trans Am Racing," perhaps??? > > Let's hope there's not a trend developing here . . . > > </SATIRE> > > Just to prove I'm not kidding about the "Starsky & Hutch" game, check > this out: > > http://www.empireinteractive.com/uk/games_menu/Index_starsky.htm > > This COULD be fun, actually -- I imagine it will be much like "Driver" > (and hopefully NOTHING like the "Dukes of Hazzard"). > > ;-) > > -- JB > >

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:46:32 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe it is a hidden plot where at the last second, they will change it from >World Sports Car to Indy Racing League 2001. Or Backhoe Brands Hatch Weekend 2001? Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

So thats what happened to it, bummer MadDAWG

John..... Gosh, you must have been intercepting Empire email or something? You have it almost correct.....except that WSC has been dropped by Empire.........and will be replaced (due to "go gold" in about a month) by the title: "Starsky and Hutch Sports Car." This will retain most of the race cars we've learned about for WSC.......so that's good news, indeed. And, because there will be no cockpit view (only the F-10 style trailing camera view), Chris and Tony were able to move forward and finish "the game" in just a few weeks. Empire had planned to wait to release this new title nearer to the Christmas buying season.....but has decided to release the game early to satisfy demands from the hardcore sim racing community. That's the good news. The bad news, however, is that this "release version" of S-HSC will be with a "Glide" renderer only. So, we'll all have to be scrambling to put our V3 and V5 cards back in our race boxes in order to run the new sim! Actually, that might not be so bad really! It means you'll have to decide whether you want to run GPL and the new S-HSC titles......or N4 only. (N4 won't run hardly at all on a V3 or V5).....so we won't have all those stupid N4 sim drivers mucking up our S-HSC online racing anymore like we've had to endure with GPL. I like that. I understand the only work left before S-HSC goes gold....is for Chris and Tony to render the new "Starsky and Hutch" theme UI screens. The new S-HSC.avi movie will feature the original Starsky and Hutch TV show theme song. Rumor has it that Chris and Tony have put an "Easter egg" in the new title, that will unlock the feature of having accurate renditions of both Starsky and Hutches faces in the AI car's driver figures! Cool.....I can't wait for this title to finally be released! Regards, Tom Pabst PS: For those of you who no longer have your V3, V5 or even dual SLI V2 12 meg cards. I have a large supply of them and will be auctioning them at the end of this month. Bids will be accepted starting June 30, 2001 at 12:00 midnight (GMT). Successful bidders should start their bid at the following levels: V3 at $450 (USD), V5 at $50 (USD) and V2 12megs at $1,000 (USD) (we have a very limited supply of these). Bidders should realize that GPL (and thus, probably the new S-HSC game) never did run for shit on a V5 card....there will be no refunds allowed! Successful bidders will be notified no later than July 3rd, and will be required to have funds deposited in the designated bank (to be announced in the bid process email) no later than July 7th, 2001.

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: Bidders should realize that GPL (and > thus, probably the new S-HSC game) never did run for shit on a V5 > card.... Hmmm, could you elaborate on this ? I'm quite happy with my V5 for GPL and N4, specially the FSAA. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

> This will retain most of the race cars we've learned about forWSC.......so > that's good news, indeed. And, because there will be no cockpit view(only > the F-10 style trailing camera view), Chris and Tony were able to move > forward and finish "the game" in just a few weeks. This is, I hope, just a joke. No cockpit view? Then it is just another Playstation game, and not a race sim. How many of you see the race-drivers running 4 feet above and behind their cars when racing? -- -- Mvh Sven

Tom is this correct?? Are you kidding or no? Holy Smokes der KingFish I got 4 here...lol "Tom Pabst" wrote: | and V2 12megs at $1,000 (USD) (we have a very limited supply of these). --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

In article <ljG_6.137696$%[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: >Bidders should realize that GPL (and >thus, probably the new S-HSC game) never did run for shit on a V5 >card....there will be no refunds allowed! I realize your post is meant as a joke with elements of truth in it. However, I run my V5 and GPL just fine. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <sOE_6.1221$[email hidden]>, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> writes: >Maybe it is a hidden plot where at the last second, they will change it from >World Sports Car to Indy Racing League 2001. AUGH!!!!!! Erm, sorry...gut reaction... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Don't tease me like that! ;-) -- JB On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:46:32 GMT, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (42 lines)

>Maybe it is a hidden plot where at the last second, they will change it from >World Sports Car to Indy Racing League 2001. > >JB > >John Bodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> <SATIRE> >> >> Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am >> Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated >> sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. >> >> Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the >> store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there >> was no rejoicing. >> >> Now I see that Empire Interactive -- the publisher who is bringing us >> the West brothers' WSC, the current most highly-anticipated sim which >> promises to be every bit as good as GPL -- is also working on a >> "Starsky & Hutch" game. Could THIS be another huge bait-and-switch >> like we saw with "Trans Am Racing," perhaps??? >> >> Let's hope there's not a trend developing here . . . >> >> </SATIRE> >> >> Just to prove I'm not kidding about the "Starsky & Hutch" game, check >> this out: >> >> http://www.empireinteractive.com/uk/games_menu/Index_starsky.htm >> >> This COULD be fun, actually -- I imagine it will be much like "Driver" >> (and hopefully NOTHING like the "Dukes of Hazzard"). >> >> ;-) >> >> -- JB >> >> > >

Compared to what? Tom

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:48:49 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Compared to what? Probably compared to 36fps. :) Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

JJ Sricklin wrote: > > And more then likely never will ! :( > And you base that on? A feeling in your water maybe?

Maybe Tom did the same upgrade I did, from V3 3000 AGP to V5 5500 AGP and got, like me, no fps gain in GPL. To carify that, my V5 ran GPL as good as any card ever released, but I was expecting it to run GPL *better* since the card was twice the speed of a V3. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:56K_6.137887$%[email hidden]... > Compared to what? > > Tom > >

Simon Brown wrote: > > Maybe Tom did the same upgrade I did, from V3 3000 AGP to V5 5500 AGP and > got, like me, no fps gain in GPL. To carify that, my V5 ran GPL as good as > any card ever released, but I was expecting it to run GPL *better* since the > card was twice the speed of a V3. > What were you expecting, 72fps? You say your got 'no fps gain in GPL', well if you weren't getting 36fps with your V3 then there was something wrong with your system. If, on the other hand you had 36 but were after more than that with the V5, then there was something wrong with your rational. Gerry

I do (did...in GPL's case) a lot of high-res track editing......pushing the limits of GPl tracks (and cockpits).....and the V5 didn't hold up as expected. It was not a frame rate issue, it was a "graphics quality" issue. Tom PS: The prettiest GPL graphics....best frame rates....were running the stock 16bit graphics with the V2 dual 12megs in SLI. Everything after that was down hill......3dfx wise.

No offense, but you've jumped the gun there. I never mentioned any fps figures. I'm talking about frame rates on race starts with a full field of AI opponents and the detail slider bar on full. I didn't get 36 fps with the V3 and the scores did not go up with the V5. I know the V5 is a faster card in most games. "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > What were you expecting, 72fps? You say your got 'no fps gain in GPL', > well if you weren't getting 36fps with your V3 then there was something > wrong with your system. If, on the other hand you had 36 but were after > more than that with the V5, then there was something wrong with your > rational. > > Gerry

GPL with a V3 got 36fps on my piii 500 but I had to turn down the detail quite a-lot. Same with a V5...But once I put on the 1.1ghz AMD Athlon, I'd get 36fps at the start, back of the pack with full detail..it was very cool...(fsaa turned on as well) but now stuck with the piii and the detail slider is back just below the center. dave henrie "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Simon Brown wrote: > > > > Maybe Tom did the same upgrade I did, from V3 3000 AGP to V5 5500 AGPand > > got, like me, no fps gain in GPL. To carify that, my V5 ran GPL as goodas > > any card ever released, but I was expecting it to run GPL *better* sincethe

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > card was twice the speed of a V3. > > > > What were you expecting, 72fps? You say your got 'no fps gain in GPL', > well if you weren't getting 36fps with your V3 then there was something > wrong with your system. If, on the other hand you had 36 but were after > more than that with the V5, then there was something wrong with your > rational. > > Gerry

Simon Brown wrote: > > No offense, Non taken. > but you've jumped the gun there. I never mentioned any fps > figures. I'm talking about frame rates on race starts with a full field of > AI opponents and the detail slider bar on full. I didn't get 36 fps with > the V3 and the scores did not go up with the V5. I know the V5 is a faster > card in most games. Sounds like you topped out on your cpu performance. What were your system specs? Gerry

P3-650. The same thought occured to me, maybe it was the CPU, but then I thought why would GPL speed up so much when turning down the detail slider bar if the CPU was the limiting factor? To be honest though, that's not a valid argument, since the CPU has to transform the polygons, and with the detail slider on full there will be more polygons to transform, hence a higher CPU workload. So you are probably right, the CPU is likely to have been the limiting factor. Should have thought this through before I posted really <sheepish grin> "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > > Simon Brown wrote: > > > > No offense, > > Non taken. > > > but you've jumped the gun there. I never mentioned any fps > > figures. I'm talking about frame rates on race starts with a full field

of > > AI opponents and the detail slider bar on full. I didn't get 36 fpswith > > the V3 and the scores did not go up with the V5. I know the V5 is afaster > > card in most games. > > Sounds like you topped out on your cpu performance. What were your > system specs? > > Gerry

> A feeling in your water maybe? huh?

In article <56K_6.137887$%[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: >Compared to what? > >Tom > Who are you talking to? You didn't quote anything. Assunimg you're talking to me, I had a V3 before with a K63-400 system. I could get 36fps, but I had to run in lower res(640x480), or turn the graphics way down. Now(Athlon 1.3, V5) I can run 1024x768, all graphics, and high detail with the same framerates. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <56K_6.137887$%[email hidden]>, "TomPabst"

Quoted text (8 lines)

> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Compared to what? > > > >Tom > > > > Who are you talking to? You didn't quote anything. Assunimg you're

talking to > me, I had a V3 before with a K63-400 system. I could get 36fps, but I hadto > run in lower res(640x480), or turn the graphics way down. Now(Athlon 1.3,V5) > I can run 1024x768, all graphics, and high detail with the sameframerates. > > Eldred I'd put money on the Athlon doing the business, not the V5. cheers John

In article <k2R_6.30274$[email hidden]>, "JM" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (12 lines)

>> Who are you talking to? You didn't quote anything. Assunimg you're >talking to >> me, I had a V3 before with a K63-400 system. I could get 36fps, but I had >to >> run in lower res(640x480), or turn the graphics way down. Now(Athlon 1.3, >V5) >> I can run 1024x768, all graphics, and high detail with the same >framerates. >> >> Eldred > >I'd put money on the Athlon doing the business, not the V5.

Probably - but the message I posted that in reply to implied that there were problems with the V5 and GPL. I haven't seen any problems... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> <SATIRE> > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am > Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated > sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. > > Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the > store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there > was no rejoicing.

Remember the hype and deflation that was CPR. Thats my only fear.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >I'd put money on the Athlon doing the business, not the V5. > > Probably - but the message I posted that in reply to implied that therewere > problems with the V5 and GPL. I haven't seen any problems... > > Eldred > -- I thought the poster was saying the V5 doesn't do a better job than a V3, so your two system specs wouldn't really help refute that, unless you put a V3 in your Athlon system for testing purposes. I would have thought a V5 would offer some improvement, but if someone is thinking of spending $$$ on a V5 just for GPL (with its 36fps limit) then it might just be a waste of money. That was the original point of the thread wasn't it? I forget. cheers John

Hi Simon I was able to compare a V3 and V5 back to back on two pc's, that were to all intents and purpose the same, both athlon 700, same MB, same sound card, same system ram etc. I thought the V5 looked better because you could turn down the resolution and enable FSAA to smooth thing out. From memory the V5 was running at 800x600 with x2 FSAA, which looked much nicer to my eyes than the V3 running at two resolutions higher. Cheers Gerry

"T.Galvin" wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > "John Bodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > <SATIRE> > > > > Not that long ago, we all eagerly awaited the arrival of "Trans Am > > Racing: 1968- 1972" -- this was one of the most highly-anticipated > > sims ever, and it promised to be every bit as good as GPL. > > > > Unfortunately, the train derailed halfway through the journey to the > > store shelves, and TAR emerged as "The Dukes Of Hazzard." And there > > was no rejoicing. > > Remember the hype and deflation that was CPR. Thats my only fear.

Dare I say it.......ok then, BC3000....there, I've said it....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--