GPL with a joystick

Before I get myself too much more frustrated being outdriven by the AI in GPL, I thought I'd try to locate an excuse. Can someone offer me a handy rationalization for why I'm so slow by telling me that I can't possibly drive fast with a joystick and must immediately go out and spend hundreds of dollars on a high-tech wheel and pedals? I am curious to know what controllers GPL veterans have chosen; I'm new to GPL and have been making steady progress driving with my joystick, but I seem to have reached a point where I can't squeeze out too much more, and I'm still being out-braked and generally out-driven by the AI. The braking seems to be most obvious weak point. Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is, well, that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully driving with a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? Thanks, itazura

> Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is,well, > that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully drivingwith > a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? > > > Thanks, > itazura > Actually, in the period of time right after GPL's release, practically all the fastest times were posted by folks using joysticks rather than wheels. The wheel users for the most part, weren't even in the ballpark. I dunno if that's still the case or not, but the short answer to your question is that lots of people have had great success using joysticks. I can't believe using one does much for the immersion factor, though. Jerry Morelock

itazura wrote in message <3b43384a$0$18891$[email hidden]>... >Before I get myself too much more frustrated being outdriven by the AI in >GPL, I thought I'd try to locate an excuse. Can someone offer me a handy >rationalization for why I'm so slow by telling me that I can't possibly >drive fast with a joystick and must immediately go out and spend hundredsof

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>dollars on a high-tech wheel and pedals? > >I am curious to know what controllers GPL veterans have chosen; I'm new to >GPL and have been making steady progress driving with my joystick, but I >seem to have reached a point where I can't squeeze out too much more, and >I'm still being out-braked and generally out-driven by the AI. The braking >seems to be most obvious weak point. > >Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is, well, >that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully driving with >a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? > > >Thanks, >itazura >

I believe the ultimate fastest laptimes come from a Joystick / Pedals combo. I guess you can just be more sensitive with the joystick and react faster. (see Wolfgang Woeger :) If you don't want to spend money on a wheel and pedals, you may prefer just picking up pedals and using them along side your joystick. I belive the CH Flight Pedals are good for that. Rob - who happily uses his MSFF Wheel & Pedals ;) GPLRank: -90.45

You do not have as much precision with a joystick as you would with a wheel. I just moved from a joystick to a wheel myself, and while it has been difficult to adapt, after about a week of practice I started getting faster lap times with the wheel. Mind you this was in N4, not GPL, since I don't have GPL. The wheel not only gives you more precision due to its larger range of motion, but at least in my case it also resulted in more electrical precision, i.e. the Logitech wheel I use now has 4 times the range, in counts, as the proportional sticks on the Logitech Rumblepad I was using before. That makes it much easier to keep the car on the right line, and also makes driving in traffic a lot easier. About the only thing that is easier with a joystick is recovering from a spin, where the ability to go lock-to-lock quickly with the joystick is helpful. OTOH from the time I spent trying to use a joystick, I think what I saw as the biggest problem is you absolutely have to have both throttle and brakes on a proportional axis. If you are using buttons for either of these functions, then that is your real problem. Try splitting the Y axis and using that for throttle and brakes, or try to split the throttle slider if your stick has one. The nice thing about the Rumblepad was that it had twin proportional sticks, which allowed me to put steering on one and throttle and brakes on the other, so that I keep the two independent from one another. "itazura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b43384a$0$18891$[email hidden]... > Before I get myself too much more frustrated being outdriven by the AIin > GPL, I thought I'd try to locate an excuse. Can someone offer me ahandy > rationalization for why I'm so slow by telling me that I can'tpossibly > drive fast with a joystick and must immediately go out and spendhundreds of > dollars on a high-tech wheel and pedals? > > I am curious to know what controllers GPL veterans have chosen; I'mnew to > GPL and have been making steady progress driving with my joystick, butI > seem to have reached a point where I can't squeeze out too much more,and > I'm still being out-braked and generally out-driven by the AI. Thebraking > seems to be most obvious weak point. > > Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is,well, > that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully drivingwith

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> a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? > > > Thanks, > itazura > > > >

"Racecraft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> itazura wrote in message <3b43384a$0$18891$[email hidden]>... > >Before I get myself too much more frustrated being outdriven by the AI in > >GPL, I thought I'd try to locate an excuse. Can someone offer me a handy > >rationalization for why I'm so slow by telling me that I can't possibly > >drive fast with a joystick and must immediately go out and spend hundreds > of > >dollars on a high-tech wheel and pedals? > > > >I am curious to know what controllers GPL veterans have chosen; I'm new

to > >GPL and have been making steady progress driving with my joystick, but I > >seem to have reached a point where I can't squeeze out too much more, and > >I'm still being out-braked and generally out-driven by the AI. Thebraking > >seems to be most obvious weak point. > > > >Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is,well, > >that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully drivingwith

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> >a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? > > > > > >Thanks, > >itazura > > > > I believe the ultimate fastest laptimes come from a Joystick / Pedals

combo. > I guess you can just be more sensitive with the joystick and react faster. > (see Wolfgang Woeger :) > > If you don't want to spend money on a wheel and pedals, you may preferjust

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> picking up pedals and using them along side your joystick. I belive the CH > Flight Pedals are good for that. > > Rob - who happily uses his MSFF Wheel & Pedals ;) > GPLRank: -90.45 > >

Wolfgang Woeger didn't even use the pedals he used the joystick for everything, he's switched to a wheel now I think. Also some of the very fast guys like Rick Pryden use hand levers on their wheels instead of pedals, using your hands is always going to give you a slight advantage because your hand's reactions are allot quicker than your feet's, I'm surprised no one has tried it in real life F1 or especially drag racing. Alex

"Racecraft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... <snip> > > Rob - who happily uses his MSFF Wheel & Pedals ;) > GPLRank: -90.45 Coo that's a nice GPLRank Rob, well done mate! :0) Jim

<snip> Coo that's a nice GPLRank Rob, well done mate! :0) Jim

Jim Seamus wrote:

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> "Racecraft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > <snip> > > > > Rob - who happily uses his MSFF Wheel & Pedals ;) > > GPLRank: -90.45 > > Coo that's a nice GPLRank Rob, well done mate! :0) > > Jim

hehe, just wondering if anyone would notice :) -- Rob Swindells ///////////// Caps Lock

In article <[email hidden]>, Racecraft <[email hidden]> writes

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>itazura wrote in message <3b43384a$0$18891$[email hidden]. >com>... >>Before I get myself too much more frustrated being outdriven by the AI in >>GPL, I thought I'd try to locate an excuse. Can someone offer me a handy >>rationalization for why I'm so slow by telling me that I can't possibly >>drive fast with a joystick and must immediately go out and spend hundreds >of >>dollars on a high-tech wheel and pedals? >> >>I am curious to know what controllers GPL veterans have chosen; I'm new >to >>GPL and have been making steady progress driving with my joystick, but I >>seem to have reached a point where I can't squeeze out too much more, >and >>I'm still being out-braked and generally out-driven by the AI. The braking >>seems to be most obvious weak point. >> >>Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is, well, >>that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully driving with >>a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? >> >> >>Thanks, >>itazura >> > >I believe the ultimate fastest laptimes come from a Joystick / Pedals combo. >I guess you can just be more sensitive with the joystick and react faster. >(see Wolfgang Woeger :) >

Don't know about the joystick/pedal combo but the other statement is definitely true. One of the advantages over my wheel/pedal driving was that I could change the steering direction extremely quickly (lock to lock or any other permutation) in order to keep the car where I wanted it. Also, someone here said you could be more precise with a wheel. I disagree with that. At my peak with a joystick I could put the car on the money even at full tilt without any difficulty whatsoever, much easier than I am finding using a wheel. I may well because as proficient with a wheel over time, but I doubt I could be any better at it. There's lots more I would like to add, such as recommended settings, joystick used etc and I probably will at a later time, but unfortunately this is just a quick post for now as time is short. PS: my GPLrank for joystick is in my sig below. :) >Rob - who happily uses his MSFF Wheel & Pedals ;) >GPLRank: -90.45 >Blimey Rob -90.45!!! Is that correct? :) -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -17.06

thanks for the input all... the consensus seems to be that I need to keep the joystick and just practice :-) itazura feeble GPL rank: +100 or so itazura <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b43384a$0$18891$[email hidden]... > Before I get myself too much more frustrated being outdriven by the AI in > GPL, I thought I'd try to locate an excuse. Can someone offer me a handy > rationalization for why I'm so slow by telling me that I can't possibly > drive fast with a joystick and must immediately go out and spend hundredsof > dollars on a high-tech wheel and pedals? > > I am curious to know what controllers GPL veterans have chosen; I'm new to > GPL and have been making steady progress driving with my joystick, but I > seem to have reached a point where I can't squeeze out too much more, and > I'm still being out-braked and generally out-driven by the AI. Thebraking > seems to be most obvious weak point. > > Yes, I realize that the more likely explanation for why I am slow is,well, > that I am just slow....but humor me :-) Anyone successfully drivingwith

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> a joystick? Any reasons I should consider other controllers? > > > Thanks, > itazura > > > >

"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Also, someone here said you could be more precise with a wheel. I > disagree with that. At my peak with a joystick I could put the car on > the money even at full tilt without any difficulty whatsoever, much > easier than I am finding using a wheel. Part of that is a personal thing; I am just not coordinated enough to use a joystick precisely, whereas my 17 year old son doesn't seem to have any problem with it. Chalk it up to Old Fart's Disease. But the other reason I said that is that when I look at the counts displayed on the wheel axis in the N4 calibration routine (which I believe is similar to GPL's), the range for two different wheels I tried was around a thousand (1 to 1024 for a TM Ferrari, about 40 to 960 or so for a Logitech). When I compared that with the sticks on my Rumblepad (possibly not a good example) the axes only had a range of 256 counts. IF that's typical, that means you can literally be four times as precise with a wheel as you can with a joystick, regardless of how coordinated you are (whether that makes a difference in the game or not I don't know). But maybe that's not typical. Out of curiosity, when you go into the GPL joystick calibration routine, what range do you see on the Y axis? Also, what kind of stick do you have? Maybe I just need a better joystick. Bah, it wouldn't help, the Old Fart's Disease would still be a problem. ;o) Regards, Hal

In article <k4717.8154$[email hidden]>, Haqsau <[email hidden]> writes

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>"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in >message >news:[email hidden]... > >> Also, someone here said you could be more precise with a wheel. I >> disagree with that. At my peak with a joystick I could put the car on >> the money even at full tilt without any difficulty whatsoever, much >> easier than I am finding using a wheel. > >Part of that is a personal thing; I am just not coordinated enough to >use a joystick precisely, whereas my 17 year old son doesn't seem to >have any problem with it. Chalk it up to Old Fart's Disease. But the >other reason I said that is that when I look at the counts displayed on >the wheel axis in the N4 calibration routine (which I believe is similar >to GPL's), the range for two different wheels I tried was around a >thousand (1 to 1024 for a TM Ferrari, about 40 to 960 or so for a >Logitech). When I compared that with the sticks on my Rumblepad >(possibly not a good example) the axes only had a range of 256 counts. >IF that's typical, that means you can literally be four times as precise >with a wheel as you can with a joystick, regardless of how coordinated >you are (whether that makes a difference in the game or not I don't >know). But maybe that's not typical. Out of curiosity, when you go >into the GPL joystick calibration routine, what range do you see on the >Y axis? Also, what kind of stick do you have? Maybe I just need a >better joystick. Bah, it wouldn't help, the Old Fart's Disease would >still be a problem. ;o) > >Regards, >Hal > >

Now using a wheel so I can't check those settings anymore. However, I'm pretty sure 0 to 256 was its range. Also you really have to feel comfortable with the joystick that you use and I'd hate to try GPL with that rumblepad. :) Anyway, after I finally settled for a Saitek Cyborg 3D which was the 3rd or 4th joystick I tried, when I had to go back to using one of my previous sticks I just couldn't believe that I had been able to drive as fast as I had with it, it just seemed so cumbersome. Unfortunately for the Cyborg, and one of the reasons that pushed me towards using a wheel, they just never lasted more than 3 months before they would start spiking - despite any sort of cleaning attempts - which was proving far too expensive in the long term. BTW, I'm no Young Fart ya know. 40 and proud of it. :) -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -17.06

"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <k4717.8154$[email hidden]>, Haqsau > <[email hidden]> writes > >"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in > >message > >news:[email hidden]... > > > Now using a wheel so I can't check those settings anymore. However,

I'm > pretty sure 0 to 256 was its range. Also you really have to feel > comfortable with the joystick that you use and I'd hate to try GPLwith > that rumblepad. :) It does take some getting used to. And honestly I wasn't much better with my previous stick. I have an old Sidewinder joystick, but it doesn't work properly on my current computer. Apparently this is a known problem with the original Sidewinder (gameport only) joysticks, they don't detect reliably above about 500 mhz or so. I can run it in analog mode, but the calibration seems to drift when I do that, plus I lose the base buttons. I got the Rumblepad to replace that, and it actually is not bad in most of the games I have used it. The light tension makes it easier to control than it might appear. > Anyway, after I finally settled for a Saitek Cyborg 3D which was the3rd > or 4th joystick I tried, when I had to go back to using one of my > previous sticks I just couldn't believe that I had been able to driveas > fast as I had with it, it just seemed so cumbersome. Unfortunatelyfor > the Cyborg, and one of the reasons that pushed me towards using awheel, > they just never lasted more than 3 months before they would start > spiking - despite any sort of cleaning attempts - which was provingfar > too expensive in the long term. Are those gameport joysticks? From what I've seen so far, USB devices seem to be pretty noise free. > BTW, I'm no Young Fart ya know. 40 and proud of it. :) Hehe, I've still got a couple years on you young man! Regards, Hal Raymond GPL rank DNF

In article <Svq17.14387$[email hidden]>, Haqsau <[email hidden]> writes <snip>

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>> Anyway, after I finally settled for a Saitek Cyborg 3D which was the >3rd >> or 4th joystick I tried, when I had to go back to using one of my >> previous sticks I just couldn't believe that I had been able to drive >as >> fast as I had with it, it just seemed so cumbersome. Unfortunately >for >> the Cyborg, and one of the reasons that pushed me towards using a >wheel, >> they just never lasted more than 3 months before they would start >> spiking - despite any sort of cleaning attempts - which was proving >far >> too expensive in the long term. > >Are those gameport joysticks? From what I've seen so far, USB devices >seem to be pretty noise free.

Yep, gameport ones, mainly because of using win95 at the time which has pretty flakey USB support. Now using win98SE so my wheel is USB though. :) > >> BTW, I'm no Young Fart ya know. 40 and proud of it. :) > >Hehe, I've still got a couple years on you young man! > Hehe, I'm off down the pub for a bottle of stout and a game of draughts. Interested? :) -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -17.06

"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Hehe, I'm off down the pub for a bottle of stout and a game ofdraughts. > Interested? :) > Uh-oh, translation required. Over here in the States we drink draughts (or rather drafts). So if you're talking about a drinking game, I'm in! But I'm sure that's not what you meant. I do like a pint of Guiness occasionally, but rumor has it you guys drink it warm. I prefer cold brews and warm women, not the other way around. ;o) Cheers, Hal

In article <6_327.21590$[email hidden]>, Haqsau <[email hidden]> writes

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>"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in >message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> Hehe, I'm off down the pub for a bottle of stout and a game of >draughts. >> Interested? :) >> > >Uh-oh, translation required. Over here in the States we drink draughts >(or rather drafts). So if you're talking about a drinking game, I'm in! >But I'm sure that's not what you meant. I do like a pint of Guiness >occasionally, but rumor has it you guys drink it warm. I prefer cold >brews and warm women, not the other way around. ;o) > >Cheers, >Hal > >

I had a funny feeling this might need explaining. Common stereotype of old geezer is someone who drinks bottles of stout - kinda Guiness like in that it's dark coloured - and who plays a game called draughts in the local boozer. Bits of wood (known as tiles perhaps) with a line down the middle of each and a certain amount of dots on each side of the line. Number of dots goes from 0 up to 6 and no 2 tiles are the same. Anyway, its all about getting rid of your tiles by laying them end to end with those already on the table, but you can only do so if the number on the tile at either end of those laid matches the number of any of the tiles you have in your possession. If you can't go you pick up from a pool of tiles not yet used. Blah, blah, blah, winner is one who gets rid of all his tiles first. Adrenalin pumping stuff. That's why the stout is drunk, as it is an analgesic to stop those playing from getting too hyper whilst playing, because aggressive players don't just place their tiles, but thump them down in an intimidating manner in order to psyche out their opponent. In fact it is well documented here in the UK that many a street riot has been started by an inoccuous game of draughts getting out of hand amongst old folk and there are moves amongst government circles to have the whole game banned completely. Worries are that this may well drive the game underground making it much more difficult to police and possibly resulting in the draughts players moving onto much more harder pub games such as gribbage which is a Class A pub game, and anyone found in possession of a Cribbage board is liable to a long period of incarceration. Mind you, that's another story. Current draughts champion is Johnny 'Old Boy' Mcfee, who gained the coveted title by default after the current champion Mick 'A Little Shakey' Graham fell asleep in front of the tv and missed the match. Hope that has explained things more clearly. :) -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -17.06

LOL!

Giggle! Just one thing Peter, isn't that Dominoes that you described? I thought Draughts was the one played on a chessboard with black and white wooden discs, however I think I'd better bow to your obviously superior Murphy's-powered knowledge.... as a lager drinker myself I prefer to get a couple of pints in (steadies the hand, you know) and then throw sharp metal arrows around until it's time to argue over the Wimbledon scores.... :0) Jim "Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <6_327.21590$[email hidden]>, Haqsau > <[email hidden]> writes > >"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in > >message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> > >> Hehe, I'm off down the pub for a bottle of stout and a game of > >draughts. > >> Interested? :) > >> > > > >Uh-oh, translation required. Over here in the States we drink draughts > >(or rather drafts). So if you're talking about a drinking game, I'm in! > >But I'm sure that's not what you meant. I do like a pint of Guiness > >occasionally, but rumor has it you guys drink it warm. I prefer cold > >brews and warm women, not the other way around. ;o) > > > >Cheers, > >Hal > > > > > I had a funny feeling this might need explaining. Common stereotype of > old geezer is someone who drinks bottles of stout - kinda Guiness like > in that it's dark coloured - and who plays a game called draughts in the > local boozer. Bits of wood (known as tiles perhaps) with a line down > the middle of each and a certain amount of dots on each side of the > line. Number of dots goes from 0 up to 6 and no 2 tiles are the same. > Anyway, its all about getting rid of your tiles by laying them end to > end with those already on the table, but you can only do so if the > number on the tile at either end of those laid matches the number of any > of the tiles you have in your possession. If you can't go you pick up > from a pool of tiles not yet used. Blah, blah, blah, winner is one who > gets rid of all his tiles first. Adrenalin pumping stuff. That's why > the stout is drunk, as it is an analgesic to stop those playing from > getting too hyper whilst playing, because aggressive players don't just > place their tiles, but thump them down in an intimidating manner in > order to psyche out their opponent. In fact it is well documented here > in the UK that many a street riot has been started by an inoccuous game > of draughts getting out of hand amongst old folk and there are moves > amongst government circles to have the whole game banned completely. > Worries are that this may well drive the game underground making it much > more difficult to police and possibly resulting in the draughts players > moving onto much more harder pub games such as gribbage which is a Class > A pub game, and anyone found in possession of a Cribbage board is liable > to a long period of incarceration. Mind you, that's another story. > > Current draughts champion is Johnny 'Old Boy' Mcfee, who gained the > coveted title by default after the current champion Mick 'A Little > Shakey' Graham fell asleep in front of the tv and missed the match. > > Hope that has explained things more clearly. :) > -- > Peter Ives > Remove ALL_STRESS before replying > If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me > GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -17.06

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I had a funny feeling this might need explaining. Common stereotype of >old geezer is someone who drinks bottles of stout - kinda Guiness like >in that it's dark coloured - and who plays a game called draughts in the >local boozer. Bits of wood (known as tiles perhaps) with a line down >the middle of each and a certain amount of dots on each side of the >line. Number of dots goes from 0 up to 6 and no 2 tiles are the same. >Anyway, its all about getting rid of your tiles by laying them end to >end with those already on the table, but you can only do so if the >number on the tile at either end of those laid matches the number of any >of the tiles you have in your possession. If you can't go you pick up >from a pool of tiles not yet used.

Ah - "dominoes" to us Yanks...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <lFt27.13107$[email hidden]>, Jim Seamus <[email hidden]> writes

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> >Giggle! > >Just one thing Peter, isn't that Dominoes that you described? I thought >Draughts was the one played on a chessboard with black and white wooden >discs, however I think I'd better bow to your obviously superior >Murphy's-powered knowledge.... as a lager drinker myself I prefer to get a >couple of pints in (steadies the hand, you know) and then throw sharp metal >arrows around until it's time to argue over the Wimbledon scores.... :0) > >Jim >

Bugger, I'm losing it!! Of course its Dominoes. I'm off to the whatchamacallit for a brainscan. See what these damned pub games can do to ya. That's why they should be banned! Mmm, perhaps I'm sitting too close to my monitor or maybe I need to get out more. Fresh air! That's what I need, lots of lovely fresh air. But how am I going to find that around here? A holiday on a remote island. That should do it. Just me, my PC and GPL. Yes, yes, yes!! I'm cured!!! Excuses, excuses. Aah, I know! Actually it wasn't me it was my spellchecker. It's set to autocorrect and has been playing up lately and every time I type Dominoes it changes it to Draughts. I've fixed it now though, as you can see. :) <snip> -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -17.06