Nascar popularity

hi all. i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc Can some of you put this in perspective please? In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be something like ..wait let's make a quick list. F1 F1 - Bikes Touring Cars (british & south african) International Superbikes Local Saloon car races (production & modified) Rallying (local & international) CART + Indy 500 Local Bike racing Local Motocross Nascar & variants. World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. IRL Sorry if I miss out something obvious. I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I see on local TV). Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). How does this compare elsewhere? Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual taste, but of the general population where they live. I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. Regards all Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

The last numbers I saw had NASCAR drawing about 8 million TV viewers per race here in the U.S. http://www.sportsline.com/u/wire/stories/0,1169,3621187_6,00.html F1 draws about 350 million world wide per race. At the bottom of the page..... http://www.motorsportstv.com/f1.htm David G Fisher <istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (50 lines)

> hi all. > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most > popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be > something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > > F1 > F1 - Bikes > Touring Cars (british & south african) > International Superbikes > Local Saloon car races (production & modified) > Rallying (local & international) > CART + Indy 500 > Local Bike racing > Local Motocross > Nascar & variants. > World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. > IRL > > Sorry if I miss out something obvious. > > I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch > to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I > see on local TV). > > Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and > let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public > interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports > watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). > > How does this compare elsewhere? > > Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual > taste, but of the general population where they live. > > I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to > other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all > the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. > > Regards all > Regards all, > istoff > > "Its easy to get lost in thought > if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country in the world! istoff wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (50 lines)

>hi all. > >i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV >Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > >Can some of you put this in perspective please? > >In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most >popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be >something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > >F1 >F1 - Bikes >Touring Cars (british & south african) >International Superbikes >Local Saloon car races (production & modified) >Rallying (local & international) >CART + Indy 500 >Local Bike racing >Local Motocross >Nascar & variants. >World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. >IRL > >Sorry if I miss out something obvious. > >I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch >to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I >see on local TV). > >Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and >let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public >interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports >watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). > >How does this compare elsewhere? > >Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual >taste, but of the general population where they live. > >I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to >other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all >the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. > >Regards all >Regards all, >istoff > >"Its easy to get lost in thought >if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:53:28 +0100, "Racecraft" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country in the >world!hehe. i feel a John Cleese quote coming on. :) I wish I had it at hand to type it in now... Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then why isn't truck racing on top of the popularity statistics? Are the cars used in Nascar based on cars you can buy? TF "Racecraft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country inthe

Quoted text (55 lines)

> world! > > istoff wrote in message <[email hidden]>... > >hi all. > > > >i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > >Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > > >Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > > >In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most > >popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be > >something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > > > >F1 > >F1 - Bikes > >Touring Cars (british & south african) > >International Superbikes > >Local Saloon car races (production & modified) > >Rallying (local & international) > >CART + Indy 500 > >Local Bike racing > >Local Motocross > >Nascar & variants. > >World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. > >IRL > > > >Sorry if I miss out something obvious. > > > >I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch > >to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I > >see on local TV). > > > >Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and > >let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public > >interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports > >watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). > > > >How does this compare elsewhere? > > > >Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual > >taste, but of the general population where they live. > > > >I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to > >other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all > >the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. > > > >Regards all > >Regards all, > >istoff > > > >"Its easy to get lost in thought > >if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993 > >

I thought USA was THE discotheque on Betelgeuse 4 ? "Racecraft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country inthe

Quoted text (55 lines)

> world! > > istoff wrote in message <[email hidden]>... > >hi all. > > > >i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > >Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > > >Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > > >In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most > >popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be > >something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > > > >F1 > >F1 - Bikes > >Touring Cars (british & south african) > >International Superbikes > >Local Saloon car races (production & modified) > >Rallying (local & international) > >CART + Indy 500 > >Local Bike racing > >Local Motocross > >Nascar & variants. > >World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. > >IRL > > > >Sorry if I miss out something obvious. > > > >I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch > >to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I > >see on local TV). > > > >Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and > >let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public > >interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports > >watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). > > > >How does this compare elsewhere? > > > >Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual > >taste, but of the general population where they live. > > > >I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to > >other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all > >the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. > > > >Regards all > >Regards all, > >istoff > > > >"Its easy to get lost in thought > >if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993 > >

Well, the SC in NASCAR does stand for Stock Car, but the resemblance to real models is mostly visual, and vague at best. Which is quite enough, I suppose. -Gregor Torgeir Foss wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to > racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then > why isn't truck racing on top of the popularity statistics? Are the cars > used in Nascar based on cars you can buy? > > TF >

<istoff> wrote on 06 Jul 2001: <snip>

Quoted text (16 lines)

> In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most > popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be > something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > > F1 > F1 - Bikes > Touring Cars (british & south african) > International Superbikes > Local Saloon car races (production & modified) > Rallying (local & international) > CART + Indy 500 > Local Bike racing > Local Motocross > Nascar & variants. > World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. > IRL

<Snip> Here in the UK, I think Le Mans would be a lot higher up (above CART, certainly), though other sportscar races aren't so popular. And as for IRL, it would have to come behind F3, FFord, club racing, stock cars (UK type bangers), hillclimbing, grass-track racing, slow bicycle races... ;-) -- David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

hehe David Buttery wrote in message ...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> >And as for >IRL, it would have to come behind F3, FFord, club racing, stock cars >(UK type bangers), hillclimbing, grass-track racing, slow bicycle >races... ;-) > >-- >David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) >The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com >"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, >really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

>Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country in the >world! lol :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

When NASCAR originated in the '50s (I think,) the concept was to literally pull production cars off the assembly line, add a little safety equipment (very little) and stick them on a track to see who would win. It TRULY was _stock_ car racing. And back then, you could walk into a dealership the next day and buy the car that you just saw win the race the day before ("Win on Sunday, sell on Monday") But over the years it has evolved into something that is far removed from its roots. Now the cars share nothing with their showroom counterparts besides the basic shape of the body. I detest NASCAR. I hate watching cars drive around in circles for 3 hours. The cars are clumsy, overweight, pathetic excuses for race cars. So you know what -- I don't watch it. But do I care if others do? Nope. Free country. Am I gonna tell someone that they are a dumbass redneck for watching NASCAR? Nope. What's the point? Todd Walker GPLRank: +81.60 twalker at jam dot rr dot com http://twalker.d2g.com/gpl On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:08:37 GMT, "Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to >racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then >why isn't truck racing on top of the popularity statistics? Are the cars >used in Nascar based on cars you can buy?

Well dude, NASCAR is home-grown here in America, and just as the British get their kicks off of Formula 3, we are obsessed with what is ours. F1 has waning interest here because there is no American connection. The last American to drive F1 stunk the place up (Michael Andretti should've stuck to CART)... Personally, I won't watch some of the NASCAR races because they just don't interest me as much as, say the Bristol 500. You get 43 cars into a half-mile track and let 'em loose for 500 laps, and you see the best racing NASCAR has to offer... Personally, NASCAR is getting watered down by these new cookie-cutter tracks and a general move away from short tracks (if the Borth Wilkesboro cancellation didn't tell you anything, and don't give me that "too many races in the South" crap because they could have moved the Wilkesboro race to Irwindale)... But Americans love anything American. I would venture to say that if I went to an F1 race at Indianapolis, it would merely be to watch racing at Indianapolis. The only ties we Americans haev to F1 are CART champions Juan Pablo Montoya and Jacques Villeneuve, and Jaguar principal Bobby Rahal... And just as the British have the PowerTour and BTCC and a lot fo domestic racing, we do too. So if you like open wheelers, you could watch USAC Silver Crown, IRL, CART, Barber Dodge, F2000, or the new USF3 series. Stock car fans have ASA, ARCA, and Hooters ProCup, as well as NASCAR's many touring divisions, Busch, and Winston Cup. There's the American Le Mans Series and Grand-Am for the sports car connoisseur. And there's AMA Supercross and MBNA Superbike for the motorcycle fan. We have enough racing here to hold our attention, and we are proud of what our country has contributed to racing more so than we are of other racing, including F1. Maybe if we get some Americans who aspire to get into F1, we may give it a bit more interest, because it has the potential to make it to network TV given the right package and contract. But as long as we have no American racing roots currently there (especially with Phil Hill and Mario Andretti being the only Americans to win the drivers championship), it won't be as big a deal as it is elsewhere... Just my long $0.02... Sundown

>What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to >racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then 180mph is slow.......riiiiiiiiight. Why don't I send you into a wall at 180mph and you tell me how "slow" it is. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Why dont you just watch "Roller Derby" instead? "Sundown" wrote: <snipped> | Personally, I won't watch some of the NASCAR races because they just don't | interest me as much as, say the Bristol 500. You get 43 cars into a | half-mile track and let 'em loose for 500 laps, and you see the bestracing | NASCAR has to offer...<snipped again> | Just my long $0.02... | Sundown --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That doesn't make 30mph high speed. Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't the highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock car racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and they race on many of the same circuits. TF "Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suitedto > >racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing,then > > 180mph is slow.......riiiiiiiiight. Why don't I send you into a wall at180mph

Quoted text (8 lines)

> and you tell me how "slow" it is. > Racer X > Veteran Sim Racer > #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC > #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL > Victory Lane- > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/ >

"Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZLp17.8269$[email hidden]... > If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That > doesn't make 30mph high speed. > Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn'tthe > highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stockcar > racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and > they race on many of the same circuits. > > TF Nascar isn't the highest level of competition? I beg to differ. America's premier drivers aspire to Nascar not CART. The best to come through in a long time are both in Nascar (Jeff Gordon & Tony Stewart). Because that's where the best drivers are that's what people are following. The RACING is also fantastic. Doug

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 21:07:05 GMT, "Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That >doesn't make 30mph high speed. >Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't the >highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock car >racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and >they race on many of the same circuits. > >TF > >

Cart now has only 1 American driver. All the drivers in Nascar are American. Back when Cart had almost all American drivers it was the #1 auto racing curcuit here in the states.

There are several reasons why nascar is more popular than Cart. First of all, the CART series went through a split with the IRL league about 6 years ago..This really confused the casual fans and reduced the appeal of CART. 2nd. THe big names in CARt, the Andretti's, the Unsers, etc have past their prime and don't have the drawing power they used to. 3rd. most of the drivers currently in CART are non-American. I don't say this to be Xenophobic but to show that the American viewing public seems to prefer watching Americans. 4th All during the above chaos in CART, Nascar was doing everything right. They got better TV exposure, they used thier built in brand awareness to attract viewers, they kept the driver field relatively stable by using the 'provisional' system that allowed big names a 2nd chance to make a race. So when you take away the biggest race in the world, the Indy 500, and your driver base is less recognizable, and your broadcasts keep getting cut off to show golf, then the lower TV rating are simple to explain. dave henrie "Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZLp17.8269$[email hidden]... > If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That > doesn't make 30mph high speed. > Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn'tthe > highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stockcar

Quoted text (9 lines)

> racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and > they race on many of the same circuits. > > TF > > > "Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly

suited

Quoted text (16 lines)

> to > > >racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, > then > > > > 180mph is slow.......riiiiiiiiight. Why don't I send you into a wall at > 180mph > > and you tell me how "slow" it is. > > Racer X > > Veteran Sim Racer > > #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC > > #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL > > Victory Lane- > > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/ > > > >

On 06 Jul 2001 18:01:45 GMT, [email hidden] (Target 12) wrote: >>What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to >>racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then > >180mph is slow.......riiiiiiiiight. Why don't I send you into a wall at 180mph CART cars were reaching top speeds at Michigan of about 255-260 MPH.

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:54:30 -0400, "Doug Justice" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (19 lines)

> >"Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:ZLp17.8269$[email hidden]... >> If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That >> doesn't make 30mph high speed. >> Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't >the >> highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock >car >> racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and >> they race on many of the same circuits. >> >> TF > >Nascar isn't the highest level of competition? I beg to differ. America's >premier drivers aspire to Nascar not CART. The best to come through in a >long time are both in Nascar (Jeff Gordon & Tony Stewart). Because that's >where the best drivers are that's what people are following. The RACING is >also fantastic.

It's not racing. It's a show but it's not racing. Racing is about a driver following another driver lap after lap. Finally, after analyzing his every move and every part of his style, he finally jumps on the inside and outbrakes him. That my friend is racing! NASCAR is purely for show. I used to watch NASCAR--when I was 12.

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:25:20 -0700, Mickey Kerkes <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

>On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 21:07:05 GMT, "Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>If I'm going into a wall I would like the speed to be below 20mph. That >>doesn't make 30mph high speed. >>Nascar speed is slow *relative* to CART. The point is that NASCAR isn't the >>highest level of competition in it's area (unless you limit it to stock car >>racing). Why isn't CART more popular than NASCAR? It's also american and >>they race on many of the same circuits. >> >>TF >> >> >Cart now has only 1 American driver. All the drivers in Nascar are >American. Back when Cart had almost all American drivers it was the >#1 auto racing curcuit here in the states.

The US was about seeing the best athletes. Is it not? If Helio Castoneves is better than Alex Barron, then I want to see Helio!

Well, here in Australia, I'd say that V8 Supercars (touring cars) would be a slim winner over F1. GP Bikes would come 3rd. Then you'd have a mix of CART, superbikes, rallying, FFord, FHolden, top fuel drag racing, sprintcars, Nascar (local and US) and Auscar, etc. And IRL last :) V8 supercars are the most popular here for the same reasons that NASCAR is popular in the US. Local, home grown series which began as standard production cars, with the best drivers in Australia. Add in the fact that they are lighter and more nimble than NASCAR, develop 600 hp and go round right hand corners, the appeal is obvious. The personalities and charisma of the Aussie drivers also adds to the appeal. Apparently the v8 races at the Aust. GP are the only ones the f1 mechanics ever stop to watch. NASCAR died a slow death here, despite having a local competition. Aussies aren't generally interested in oval track racing, and there are only two real nascar circuits here as well. Drags are way more popular! Rafe Mc On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:24:43 +0200, istoff wrote:

Quoted text (50 lines)

>hi all. > >i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV >Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > >Can some of you put this in perspective please? > >In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most >popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be >something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > >F1 >F1 - Bikes >Touring Cars (british & south african) >International Superbikes >Local Saloon car races (production & modified) >Rallying (local & international) >CART + Indy 500 >Local Bike racing >Local Motocross >Nascar & variants. >World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. >IRL > >Sorry if I miss out something obvious. > >I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch >to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I >see on local TV). > >Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and >let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public >interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports >watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). > >How does this compare elsewhere? > >Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual >taste, but of the general population where they live. > >I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to >other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all >the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. > >Regards all >Regards all, >istoff > >"Its easy to get lost in thought >if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

> > It's not racing. It's a show but it's not racing. Racing is about a > driver following another driver lap after lap. Finally, after > analyzing his every move and every part of his style, he finally jumps > on the inside and outbrakes him. That my friend is racing! hmmmmmmmm lets see, how many laps did it take the WORLDS #2 driver to find a way around a very sorry backmarker at Monaco...THAT? was racing? dave henrie > > NASCAR is purely for show. I used to watch NASCAR--when I was 12.

Oh, you English are soooo superior. -- Philip D'Amato [email hidden] <istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:53:28 +0100, "Racecraft" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Well Americans love NASCAR and the USA is the most important country in the > >world! > hehe. > > i feel a John Cleese quote coming on. :) I wish I had it at hand to > type it in now... > > > Regards all, > istoff > > "Its easy to get lost in thought > if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

I've read through this thread, and it's not easy to quantify what popularity is because popularity - be definition - is based on opinion. I'll say this though: NASCAR is popular in the US - at least in part - because the drivers and teams are people that you can identify with. I've met several drivers - and they each took the time to speak with me. I can *identify* with many of them (for reasons that may or may not be real). I cannot *identify* with someone who has a compensation package (including endorsements) that total an estimated US$ 118 mil (Michael Schumacher of F1). I happen to enjoy many different types of racing (NASCAR, F1, GP bikes, AMA bikes, that wonderful Speedvision GT & TC series, WRC, and that astounding lawn tractor racing - Go John Deere! - that Speedvision runs occasionally). With the possible exception of the Lawnmower series, NASCAR drivers are the most accessible in the sport, and they drive cars that you can (mostly) identify with (they have fenders, for example). There's bright colors flying by, loud lovely engine sounds, the *most fun to watch pit stops and strategies, loud obnoxious (fellow) fans, etc. Plus, they run most every week. F1 (for example) comes to town once a year - and this after not being in the US for many years. And Indy isn't the most convenient place for me to see a race (I live near Pocono, where I see Winston Cup racing live twice a year). Aside from my opinions, I read a decent history of racing (can't remember the title) that talked about the historical preference in the US for oval tracks (vs road courses in Europe). The oval track popularity came from the ready availability 100+ years ago of dirt track ovals used for horse racing - another popular US sport. Someone decided a long time ago that this is where the cars should run too (in the US). -- Philip D'Amato [email hidden] <istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > hi all. > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most > popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be > something like ..wait let's make a quick list. > > F1 > F1 - Bikes > Touring Cars (british & south african) > International Superbikes > Local Saloon car races (production & modified) > Rallying (local & international) > CART + Indy 500 > Local Bike racing > Local Motocross > Nascar & variants. > World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. > IRL > > Sorry if I miss out something obvious. > > I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch > to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I > see on local TV). > > Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and > let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public > interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports > watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). > > How does this compare elsewhere? > > Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual > taste, but of the general population where they live. > > I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to > other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all > the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. > > Regards all > Regards all, > istoff > > "Its easy to get lost in thought > if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

<istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > hi all. > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > Can some of you put this in perspective please? Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. Here in the USA, some other popular things are: Professional wrestling Jerry Springer American Football The NBA Steven Seagal and Stallone movies Survivor The Deer Hunter PC games Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt McDonalds and Burger King So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we Americans have with crap. Hope that helped... ;)

Hey I have a big 4wd vehicle that never leaves the asphalt! LOL It looks cool! I don't want to break it. I used to be a big NASCAR fan when there was more short track racing. All these Charlotte clone tracks are getting boring. My favorite now is F1, then CART. -- Sean Higgins Redline Racing League www.rrlnrs.com Redline BGN Division http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/RRL/ "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nvv17.31060$[email hidden]... > > <istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > hi all. > > > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > > > Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. > Here in the USA, some other popular things are: > Professional wrestling > Jerry Springer > American Football > The NBA > Steven Seagal and Stallone movies > Survivor > The Deer Hunter PC games > Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt > McDonalds and Burger King > > So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we > Americans have with crap. > > Hope that helped... ;) > > >

lol, too true! On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:42:27 -0500, "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (27 lines)

> ><istoff> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> hi all. >> >> i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV >> Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc >> >> Can some of you put this in perspective please? > >Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. >Here in the USA, some other popular things are: >Professional wrestling >Jerry Springer >American Football >The NBA >Steven Seagal and Stallone movies >Survivor >The Deer Hunter PC games >Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt >McDonalds and Burger King > >So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we >Americans have with crap. > >Hope that helped... ;) > >

"Sean Higgins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hey I have a big 4wd vehicle that never leaves the asphalt! LOL It looks > cool! I don't want to break it. I used to be a big NASCAR fan when > there was more short track racing. All these Charlotte clone tracks are > getting boring. My favorite now is F1, then CART. LOL- I figured I'd catch someone with that one, Sean....it's a free country, and choice of vehicles is part of that. Hell, I have a minivan and a full size pick up<g>. I agree with you on the short tracks- that and the 2 roadies a year are the only things that made NASCAR even slightly interesting. Gets really bad when half the tracks are clones of one another.

Quoted text (43 lines)

> > -- > > Sean Higgins > > Redline Racing League > www.rrlnrs.com > > Redline BGN Division > http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/RRL/ > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nvv17.31060$[email hidden]... > > > > <istoff> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > hi all. > > > > > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > > > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > > > > > Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > > > Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. > > Here in the USA, some other popular things are: > > Professional wrestling > > Jerry Springer > > American Football > > The NBA > > Steven Seagal and Stallone movies > > Survivor > > The Deer Hunter PC games > > Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt > > McDonalds and Burger King > > > > So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we > > Americans have with crap. > > > > Hope that helped... ;) > > > > > > > >

Philip D'Amato <[email hidden]> wrote on 07 Jul 2001: > Oh, you English are soooo superior. Ah, so you've recognised it at last :-) -- David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

I feel many here in the US seem to forget about all the many genres of racing as we are so "Barraged" with Nascar from races, Ads, etc and tend to think "Well Nascar must be the most popular worldwide" and this isnt true! Of course, as I have posted prior, I like all motorsports! "Just toss a motor on a bullfrog & I'll race that sucker"..:-) Well thats my cent 1/2s worth.. Thom_j. "Rafe McAuliffe" wrote:

Quoted text (76 lines)

| Well, here in Australia, I'd say that V8 Supercars (touring cars) | would be a slim winner over F1. GP Bikes would come 3rd. | | Then you'd have a mix of CART, superbikes, rallying, FFord, FHolden, | top fuel drag racing, sprintcars, Nascar (local and US) and Auscar, | etc. And IRL last :) | | V8 supercars are the most popular here for the same reasons that | NASCAR is popular in the US. Local, home grown series which began as | standard production cars, with the best drivers in Australia. Add in | the fact that they are lighter and more nimble than NASCAR, develop | 600 hp and go round right hand corners, the appeal is obvious. The | personalities and charisma of the Aussie drivers also adds to the | appeal. Apparently the v8 races at the Aust. GP are the only ones the | f1 mechanics ever stop to watch. | | NASCAR died a slow death here, despite having a local competition. | Aussies aren't generally interested in oval track racing, and there | are only two real nascar circuits here as well. Drags are way more | popular! | | Rafe Mc | | On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:24:43 +0200, istoff wrote: | | >hi all. | > | >i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV | >Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc | > | >Can some of you put this in perspective please? | > | >In South Africa, from my perceptions of people I speak to, the most | >popular racing would have to be Formula one. Next up would be | >something like ..wait let's make a quick list. | > | >F1 | >F1 - Bikes | >Touring Cars (british & south african) | >International Superbikes | >Local Saloon car races (production & modified) | >Rallying (local & international) | >CART + Indy 500 | >Local Bike racing | >Local Motocross | >Nascar & variants. | >World Endurance (Le Mans) type races. | >IRL | > | >Sorry if I miss out something obvious. | > | >I guess some of the items on the list can be bumped up or down a notch | >to cater for different people's tastes (again, people I know & what I | >see on local TV). | > | >Also, I would give F1 a lions share of public interest, say 40% and | >let the other formula fight over the rest. I would reckon that public | >interest and awareness is probably in the region of 1% of the sports | >watchers here(popular sports here being rugby, cricket, soccer, etc). | > | >How does this compare elsewhere? | > | >Also, I'm not really concerned with R.A.S. type people's individual | >taste, but of the general population where they live. | > | >I want to know why Nascar games are such a big seller compared to | >other racing titles. In SA we can't even buy Nascar Heat. With all | >the cool addons for it, it would be nice to check it out. | > | >Regards all | >Regards all, | >istoff | > | >"Its easy to get lost in thought | >if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993 |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

Hey dont forget "Roller Derby"..hahahaha "Scott Moore" wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

| Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. | Here in the USA, some other popular things are: | Professional wrestling | Jerry Springer | American Football | The NBA | Steven Seagal and Stallone movies | Survivor | The Deer Hunter PC games | Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt | McDonalds and Burger King | | So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we | Americans have with crap. | | Hope that helped... ;)

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

"Mickey Kerkes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Cart now has only 1 American driver. All the drivers in Nascar are > American. Back when Cart had almost all American drivers it was the > #1 auto racing curcuit here in the states. So it's good old fashioned xenophobia then? cheers John

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DjD17.2457$[email hidden]... > Hey dont forget "Roller Derby"..hahahaha Knew I missed something....darn<g>. Guess I could have included Monster Trucks, tractor pulls, and Swamp Buggies, too....LOL.

Quoted text (27 lines)

> > "Scott Moore" wrote: > | Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. > | Here in the USA, some other popular things are: > | Professional wrestling > | Jerry Springer > | American Football > | The NBA > | Steven Seagal and Stallone movies > | Survivor > | The Deer Hunter PC games > | Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt > | McDonalds and Burger King > | > | So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we > | Americans have with crap. > | > | Hope that helped... ;) > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001 > >

>CART cars were reaching top speeds at Michigan of about 255-260 MPH. Yeah, so? NASCAR reaches 200mph at Talladega. They'd be at about 220 or 230 if they were unrestricted. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

And!! Also SpeedVision's all time best, Ridin' Lawn Mower Races.. hahaha "Scott Moore" wrote:

Quoted text (24 lines)

| Knew I missed something....darn<g>. Guess I could have included Monster | Trucks, tractor pulls, and Swamp Buggies, too....LOL. | | "Thom j." wrote: | > Hey dont forget "Roller Derby"..hahahaha | | > | > "Scott Moore" wrote: | > | Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. | > | Here in the USA, some other popular things are: | > | Professional wrestling | > | Jerry Springer | > | American Football | > | The NBA | > | Steven Seagal and Stallone movies | > | Survivor | > | The Deer Hunter PC games | > | Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt | > | McDonalds and Burger King | > | | > | So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we | > | Americans have with crap. | > | | > | Hope that helped... ;)

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

This depends solely on what you do with either degree after you receive it! "John Hilsman" wrote: <snipped> | A science degree and an art degree are both an education, but | which is 'better'?<snipped again> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

After reading all of these posts I thought I would put forth my 0.02 worth. I'm a believer that one of the reasons that Nascar is so big in the states is that we Americans, as a whole, have a place in our hearts for the American V-8. Not that other places outside the U.S don't appreciate cars, I just believe that in the U.S., driving a firebreathing, gas guzzling, high horsepowered, rear wheel driven ground pounding tank is the dream. I am in my mid 40's and my street car (back in the day) was a 1970 Ford Torino with the big block 429 cubic inch mill (7.0 litre to the rest of the world). The scream of a Ferrari is sweet, the whine of a Lancia may give you goose bumps, but the cacaphony of sound that bursts forth from an American V-8, full throated through red-hot headers, the rumble churning your insides, the sweet smell of unburned high-octane fuel making your eyes tear, is something to behold. Everytime I hear one of those Nascar Winston Cup cars start up, it takes me back. I enjoy F-1, Cart, IRL, Rally and the rest, but none of them give me the raw, unabashed joy that I feel when 43 V-8's come roaring down the mainstretch, white noise screaming from their exhausts, hot rubber ripping at the tarmac. ahhhhhhh...... Michael Loos Gasoline Alley...The Fastest Show In Radio! Nationwide Saturdays at 10:00 pm Eastern - 7:00 pm Pacific Find your local affiliate at www.GasolineAlleyOnline.net

Yea Michael in many respects we can relate as many of us have had vehicles similar to the good 'ole Nascar racecars or we wish we did! Your points/comments are poignant for many reasons and I can also see why many of the non-US wonder what the big "hub-bub" is?.:-) "Thats my 1/2cent worth." "Race1530" wrote: | After reading all of these posts I thought I would put forth my 0.02worth. | | I'm a believer that one of the reasons that Nascar is so big in the statesis | that we Americans, as a whole, have a place in our hearts for the AmericanV-8. | | Not that other places outside the U.S don't appreciate cars, I justbelieve | that in the U.S., driving a firebreathing, gas guzzling, highhorsepowered, | rear wheel driven ground pounding tank is the dream. | | I am in my mid 40's and my street car (back in the day) was a 1970 FordTorino | with the big block 429 cubic inch mill (7.0 litre to the rest of theworld). | | The scream of a Ferrari is sweet, the whine of a Lancia may give you goose | bumps, but the cacaphony of sound that bursts forth from an American V-8,full | throated through red-hot headers, the rumble churning your insides, thesweet | smell of unburned high-octane fuel making your eyes tear, is something to | behold. | | Everytime I hear one of those Nascar Winston Cup cars start up, it takesme | back. I enjoy F-1, Cart, IRL, Rally and the rest, but none of them giveme the | raw, unabashed joy that I feel when 43 V-8's come roaring down themainstretch, | white noise screaming from their exhausts, hot rubber ripping at thetarmac.

Quoted text (7 lines)

| ahhhhhhh...... | | Michael Loos | Gasoline Alley...The Fastest Show In Radio! | Nationwide Saturdays at 10:00 pm Eastern - 7:00 pm Pacific | Find your local affiliate at | www.GasolineAlleyOnline.net

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

In article <QoD17.4183$[email hidden]>, "JM" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>"Mickey Kerkes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... > >> Cart now has only 1 American driver. All the drivers in Nascar are >> American. Back when Cart had almost all American drivers it was the >> #1 auto racing curcuit here in the states. > >So it's good old fashioned xenophobia then? >

Xenophobia is a bit different from "xeno-ignorance"... If people don't KNOW the drivers(from seeing them work their way up the racing ladder), they may find it hard to 'get behind' them... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Sundown wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Personally, NASCAR is getting watered down by these new cookie-cutter tracks > and a general move away from short tracks (if the Borth Wilkesboro > cancellation didn't tell you anything, and don't give me that "too many > races in the South" crap because they could have moved the Wilkesboro race > to Irwindale)... >

I think you have something here-I mean, how many near-clones of Charlotte do we actually need? Some creativity in track design would be refreshing-a high banked track WITHOUT a trioval section-tho I understand the reason why triovals are all the rage (spectator visibility). [I personally would love to see a road course like the old NASCAR 2 fantasy track Bull Run]. John DiFool -- ============================ Those who know do not speak: Those who speak do not know. -Lao Tzu ============================

I'm currently driving a 1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme with a 305 V-8 under the hood (though not for much longer). Every time I watch a Nascar Race on TV, and I hear the sound the cars make... it goes right to my spinal column. I saw the race tonight on NBC, and I loved every minute of it. Frank Montreal, Canada

"Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > After reading all of these posts I thought I would put forth my 0.02worth. > > I'm a believer that one of the reasons that Nascar is so big in the statesis > that we Americans, as a whole, have a place in our hearts for the AmericanV-8. > > Not that other places outside the U.S don't appreciate cars, I justbelieve > that in the U.S., driving a firebreathing, gas guzzling, highhorsepowered, > rear wheel driven ground pounding tank is the dream. I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those obese monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound like a bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's why NASCAR keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, OHC, etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone away- and you know that wouldn't look good. I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door with a carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, and contrived possibly succeed. -- Scott Moore The Pits: PowerSims Magazine http://www.theuspits.com

Boulderdash!!!!!!!!! Nascar is where it's at! No where will you see such exciting close racing action as you do in stock car racing. Don Burnette "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:slQ17.4670$[email hidden]... > > I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those obese > monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound like a > bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. > We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's whyNASCAR > keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, OHC, > etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone away- > and you know that wouldn't look good. > I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door witha > carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said > before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, orchestrated,and

Quoted text (10 lines)

> contrived possibly succeed. > > -- > Scott Moore > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > http://www.theuspits.com > > > >

"Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:juQ17.15895$[email hidden]... > Boulderdash!!!!!!!!! > > Nascar is where it's at! No where will you see such exciting close racing > action as you do in stock car racing. > > Don Burnette If you consider driving the Family Truckster around in a big circle racing, you may be right. I don't- and when the competition is forced by making the series basically a spec series(like NASCAR, ASA, and the IRL)close competition is meaningless. NASCAR is all about the show- not really racing. -- Scott Moore The Pits: PowerSims Magazine http://www.theuspits.com > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:slQ17.4670$[email hidden]... > > > > I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those obese > > monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound like a > > bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. > > We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's why > NASCAR > > keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, OHC, > > etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone away- > > and you know that wouldn't look good. > > I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door with > a > > carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said > > before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, > and > > contrived possibly succeed. > > > > -- > > Scott Moore > > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > >

Yea but still Britney looked yummmmmmy!! tho' :o)~ "Scott Moore" wrote: | I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those obese | monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound like a | bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. | We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's whyNASCAR | keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, OHC, | etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone away- | and you know that wouldn't look good. | I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door witha | carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said | before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, orchestrated,and | contrived possibly succeed. | -- | Scott Moore | The Pits: PowerSims Magazine | http://www.theuspits.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

Ok, perhaps I should give something like F1 a shot, so when is the next parade sheduled?? I'll make sure to get plenty of sleep beforehand so I don't doze off too quickly. Tonight, I was on the edge of the seat, still hoarse from screaming those last 6 laps. Yes, I consider stock cars racing, and for me it is the best form of auto racing. Different strokes for different folks, guess that's what makes the world go around. Don Burnette "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JuQ17.4675$[email hidden]... > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:juQ17.15895$[email hidden]... > > Boulderdash!!!!!!!!! > > > > Nascar is where it's at! No where will you see such exciting closeracing > > action as you do in stock car racing. > > > > Don Burnette > > If you consider driving the Family Truckster around in a big circleracing, > you may be right. I don't- and when the competition is forced by makingthe > series basically a spec series(like NASCAR, ASA, and the IRL)close > competition is meaningless. NASCAR is all about the show- not reallyracing.

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > -- > Scott Moore > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:slQ17.4670$[email hidden]... > > > > > > I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those

obese > > > monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars soundlike > a > > > bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. > > > We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's why > > NASCAR > > > keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection,OHC,

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > > etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone > away- > > > and you know that wouldn't look good. > > > I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door > with > > a > > > carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said > > > before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey,

orchestrated,

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > and > > > contrived possibly succeed. > > > > > > -- > > > Scott Moore > > > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:08:37 GMT, "Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to >racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then >why isn't truck racing on top of the popularity statistics? Are the cars >used in Nascar based on cars you can buy? > The point is not how slow or fast the cars are, I mean can you really tell the difference between 180 mph and 220mph watching on TV? The point is, the Nascar drivers actually RACE each other. (Case in point: tonight's Daytona race). When was the last time you saw an F1 race with cars passing each other all the time? Tim

"Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bVQ17.15909$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> Ok, perhaps I should give something like F1 a shot, so when is the next > parade sheduled?? > I'll make sure to get plenty of sleep beforehand so I don't doze off too > quickly. > Tonight, I was on the edge of the seat, still hoarse from screaming those > last 6 laps. Yes, I consider stock cars racing, and for me it is the best > form of auto racing. > Different strokes for different folks, guess that's what makes the world

go > around. > > Don Burnette Eggackly. Gald some people derive enjoyment from it- I don't. If you ask me, there are only 3 types of cars that belong on an oval of any kind- Sprints, Midgets, and Silver Crown cars. On dirt, of course<g>. I'm probably the only guy in the world to take the news that CART won't race at Nazareth, Michigan, Rio,etc. as good news...LOL. Now if we could get the CART owners to stop sending cars and drivers to the borathon called Indy, I'd be blissful.... -- Scott Moore The Pits: PowerSims Magazine http://www.theuspits.com > > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JuQ17.4675$[email hidden]... > > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:juQ17.15895$[email hidden]... > > > Boulderdash!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > Nascar is where it's at! No where will you see such exciting close > racing > > > action as you do in stock car racing. > > > > > > Don Burnette > > > > If you consider driving the Family Truckster around in a big circle > racing, > > you may be right. I don't- and when the competition is forced by making > the > > series basically a spec series(like NASCAR, ASA, and the IRL)close > > competition is meaningless. NASCAR is all about the show- not really > racing. > > > > -- > > Scott Moore > > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:slQ17.4670$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those > obese > > > > monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound > like > > a > > > > bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. > > > > We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's why > > > NASCAR > > > > keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, > OHC, > > > > etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone > > away- > > > > and you know that wouldn't look good. > > > > I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door > > with > > > a > > > > carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said > > > > before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, > orchestrated, > > > and > > > > contrived possibly succeed. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Scott Moore > > > > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

This coming from a guy who drives a go-kart briggs and straton wanna be car =P Did you get the left foot or the right foot model ? They could at least give you a whole car for your money! Keep all those whimpering rubber band wound 4 bangers and give me an American V8 any day. Hell, even a solid V6 will do. Anything but a 4 banging hedge trimmer sound making import! ;) "USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, and contrived possibly succeed." - Hmmm, I didn't realize F1 was so popular in the USA. You know.. with those contracts that stipulate you can't pass your teammate and the "races" that have 1 leader change and its considered a highly competitive race. =P -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:slQ17.4670$[email hidden]... > > "Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > After reading all of these posts I thought I would put forth my 0.02 > worth. > > > > I'm a believer that one of the reasons that Nascar is so big in the states > is > > that we Americans, as a whole, have a place in our hearts for the American > V-8. > > > > Not that other places outside the U.S don't appreciate cars, I just > believe > > that in the U.S., driving a firebreathing, gas guzzling, high > horsepowered, > > rear wheel driven ground pounding tank is the dream. > > I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those obese > monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound like a > bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. > We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's why NASCAR > keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, OHC, > etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone away- > and you know that wouldn't look good. > I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door with a > carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said > before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, and > contrived possibly succeed. > > -- > Scott Moore > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > http://www.theuspits.com > > > >

"Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This coming from a guy who drives a go-kart briggs and straton wanna becar > =P My go cart wanna be has more horsepower than the Grand Prix we have sitting here...<g>

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Did you get the left foot or the right foot model ? They could at least > give you a whole car for your money! > > Keep all those whimpering rubber band wound 4 bangers and give me an > American V8 any day. Hell, even a solid V6 will do. Anything but a 4 > banging hedge trimmer sound making import!

One of those good old 'Merican V8s that start leaking from every orifice as soon as they hit 60,000 miles, you mean? Or that need 7 liters to make 300 horsepower?<g>. Quiet, or I'll sic Vince on you...LOL! > > ;) > > "USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, and contrived possibly > succeed." - Hmmm, I didn't realize F1 was so popular in the USA. Youknow.. > with those contracts that stipulate you can't pass your teammate and the > "races" that have 1 leader change and its considered a highly competitive > race. =P Who mentioned F1? You know I'm not much of a fan, either- not since the mid 80s or so. Way too political now- and anyplace that Ferrari is successful is a place I don't want to be.....<g>. I still love CART- but outside of that and the World of Outlaws, big time racing pretty much stinks worldwide as it is right now..... Now go pour a quart of oil in your Dodge....;) -- Scott Moore The Pits: PowerSims Magazine http://www.theuspits.com > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc >

Before I start a major flame fest... most of that was in jest with Scott. Although I do prefer V8s and I don't like small 4 cylinder imports. Well hell, I'm not much of an F1 fan either! ROFLMAO -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This coming from a guy who drives a go-kart briggs and straton wanna be car > =P > > Did you get the left foot or the right foot model ? They could at least > give you a whole car for your money! > > Keep all those whimpering rubber band wound 4 bangers and give me an > American V8 any day. Hell, even a solid V6 will do. Anything but a 4 > banging hedge trimmer sound making import! > > ;) > > "USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, and contrived possibly > succeed." - Hmmm, I didn't realize F1 was so popular in the USA. You know.. > with those contracts that stipulate you can't pass your teammate and the > "races" that have 1 leader change and its considered a highly competitive > race. =P > > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:slQ17.4670$[email hidden]... > > > > "Race1530" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > After reading all of these posts I thought I would put forth my 0.02 > > worth. > > > > > > I'm a believer that one of the reasons that Nascar is so big in the > states > > is > > > that we Americans, as a whole, have a place in our hearts for the > American > > V-8. > > > > > > Not that other places outside the U.S don't appreciate cars, I just > > believe > > > that in the U.S., driving a firebreathing, gas guzzling, high > > horsepowered, > > > rear wheel driven ground pounding tank is the dream. > > > > I'm in my late 30s, and wouldn't even consider owning one of those obese > > monsters. Guess I'm in the minority, but I think NASCAR cars sound like a > > bunch of unmuffled farm tractors...<g>. > > We haven't built a decent car in this country in decades. That's why > NASCAR > > keeps those antiques on the track- if they went to fuel injection, OHC, > > etc.(modern stuff) Honda and Toyota would move in and blow everyone away- > > and you know that wouldn't look good. > > I guess I just find the whole idea of calling a 3500 lb family 4-door with > a > > carburetor, live axle, and a 4-speed a race car ludicrous. Like I said > > before, only in the good ol' USA would something so hokey, orchestrated, > and > > contrived possibly succeed. > > > > -- > > Scott Moore > > The Pits: PowerSims Magazine > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > > >

"Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:juQ17.15895$[email hidden]... > Boulderdash!!!!!!!!! > > Nascar is where it's at! No where will you see such exciting close racing > action as you do in stock car racing. > > Don Burnette nono there is plenty of close racing. As I said in another thread...just look how long Coulthard raced nose to tail with that Arrows/Bernoldi car...lap after lap after lap after lap he studied his obviously weaker oponent for lap after lap after lap after lap still the master stratitician in the near invincible Mclaren pondered his move for more laps after laps after laps...waiting for the precise moment when all the years of racecraft would dictate he make the pass it only took a few more laps after laps after laps until that great nose to tail racing was completed... dave henrie

"Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Before I start a major flame fest... most of that was in jest with Scott. > Although I do prefer V8s and I don't like small 4 cylinder imports. > > Well hell, I'm not much of an F1 fan either! ROFLMAO > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc

Good catch- I'd hate to start a civil war on here...<g>.

ROTFLMAO. Don Burnette "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6wR17.315739$[email hidden]... > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:juQ17.15895$[email hidden]... > > Boulderdash!!!!!!!!! > > > > Nascar is where it's at! No where will you see such exciting closeracing > > action as you do in stock car racing. > > > > Don Burnette > nono there is plenty of close racing. As I said in anotherthread...just > look how long Coulthard raced nose to tail with that Arrows/Bernoldi > car...lap after lap after lap after lap he studied his obviously weaker > oponent for lap after lap after lap after lap still the masterstratitician > in the near invincible Mclaren pondered his move for more laps after laps > after laps...waiting for the precise moment when all the years ofracecraft > would dictate he make the pass it only took a few more laps after laps > after laps until that great nose to tail racing was completed... > dave henrie > >

"Tim Hall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The point is, the Nascar drivers actually RACE each other. (Case in > point: tonight's Daytona race). When was the last time you saw an F1 > race with cars passing each other all the time? > > Tim F1 is an easy target, but to compare apples with apples, instead of oranges, compare NASCAR to European Tourers or German DTM. I'd inlcude the British BTCC but that's gone to pot completely. Identifiable cars, with close racing, on proper race tracks. I prefer to watch something with some speed variation over the course, and I see even some NASCAR fans are sick of the super speedways. I'm not impressed with the "skill" required to pull out of the draft and overtake on a SS. Actually, I'd rather watch the 500 moto GP or the Superbikes than either, and I've never been a motorbike fan. cheers John

Don, you have to admit to these F1 fans that you (like me) were mostly excited by how great Dale Jr ran all night I like Nascar racing more than any other type but I dont think the actually racing per say is any more exciting, or better Watching Buddy Lazier take 6Gs going 238 mph in traffic at Texas is only matched by those last few laps I saw last nite jmo

"JM" <[email hidden]> writes: > Actually, I'd rather watch the 500 moto GP or the Superbikes than either, > and I've never been a motorbike fan. Agreed, bikes you can buy (very close), at least in superbike. Close racing with plenty overtaking, black rubber lines on the tarmac from the sliding in the turns, riders with personality and driving techniques that just make you go wow! What more can you want. -- -asbjxrn

I've enjoyed this thread immensely. David G Fisher "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nvv17.31060$[email hidden]... > > <istoff> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (26 lines)

> > hi all. > > > > i've read many posts about Nascar's popularity with regards to TV > > Support, Video game sales (compared to GPL), etc > > > > Can some of you put this in perspective please? > > Just keep this in mind, and you'll understand why NASCAR is popular. > Here in the USA, some other popular things are: > Professional wrestling > Jerry Springer > American Football > The NBA > Steven Seagal and Stallone movies > Survivor > The Deer Hunter PC games > Big, stupid looking 4WD vehicles that never leave the asphalt > McDonalds and Burger King > > So, you see? NASCAR fits right in to this group and the fascination we > Americans have with crap. > > Hope that helped... ;) > > >

And did you see the Brit 500cc GP? Wow! What a ride from Rossi, 11th to 1st, sliding the rear tyre round the whole way. Damn impressive. Rafe Mc On 08 Jul 2001 17:50:19 +0200, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>"JM" <[email hidden]> writes: > >> Actually, I'd rather watch the 500 moto GP or the Superbikes than either, >> and I've never been a motorbike fan. > >Agreed, bikes you can buy (very close), at least in superbike. Close >racing with plenty overtaking, black rubber lines on the tarmac from >the sliding in the turns, riders with personality and driving >techniques that just make you go wow! > >What more can you want.

My mother's family grew up about an hour away from Darlington S.C. My Grandfather went to every NASCAR race there until he too sick with cancer to make the trip. His brother raced in the league in the 50's. I can remember going to races at Bristol Motor Speedway where if you hung around for a little bit after the race was over, they would let you across the track into the infield. So for me, anyway, it is just something I grew up with, a family tradition, and I enjoy it for that reason most of all. The racing is pretty exciting too. We always used to joke around about F1 and say if you knew the starting grid, you didn't need to watch the race because that is pretty much the way they would finish. Really, we were just joking. The cars used to be a lot closer to what you could buy from the dealership, but I dont think that is what really holds peoples interest. The Ford/Chevy duel is old and bitter, and I see it as more a matter of brand allegiance, than folks thinking that they can buy on Monday what won on Sunday. Some of our family are die hard "Ford men" and some are for Chevy. For some it is Mopar or No car... even if they are now just a Mercedes; they used to be the real deal. Just about every week, you'd need hip waders and a shovel to make it through all the BS about whose driver was gonna tear up the track that week. It was fun, and it made for some good family memories when you could give the Uncle a good natured ribbing about "what the hell happened to the 9 car this week?" I really don't get the truck racing thing. Tractor pulls make more sense to me... maybe if they drove around with the beds of their trucks filled with some of that manure... Gerald Moore "Torgeir Foss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<pef17.8217$[email hidden]>... > What is the fascination about Nascar? The cars are slow and poorly suited to > racing compared to CART. If the point is too watch "slow" cars racing, then > why isn't truck racing on top of the popularity statistics? Are the cars > used in Nascar based on cars you can buy? > > TF

As with the Pepsi 400 conspiracy post, I'm gonna respond to my own post: The thing with NASCAR is that its fans identify with the DRIVER, not the TEAM. I think that CART is headed the way of sports car racing, where instead of rooting for Gil de Ferran or Helio Castro-Neves (I like that spelling better), you're rooting for Marlboro Team Penske (or Team Penske once this tobacco bullshit goes into effect). Just as in the ALMS, I'm probably one of a few fans that actually root for a driver (Jan Magnussen), but I'm a Panoz fan. I don't give a damn who's driving it! The focus in sports cars is more on the fan identifying with the CAR than who's driving the car, which is justifiable seeing that the driver lineup changes more than in other series... Someone mentioned that they though better racing came with technological marvels instead of spec-series-type rules. Well that technological marvelness led to the demise of IMSA GTP/Group C racing in Europe and here in America. It has led to several notable CART car owners (i.e. John Della Penna, Dan Gurney) being pinched out of the series. It's getting that way in NASCAR with the advent of the multi-car operation, but it still gives the "little" guys (such as Elliott Sadler, Johnny Benson, and Ron Fellows in Busch) a decent shot at a top-ten finish, let alone a win. That low-tech approach has NASCAR number one in TV ratings and fan popularity, as well as merchandising and brand loyalty. I can identify with the NASCAR drivers, in particular Rusty Wallace. He's a pilot; so am I. I drink Miller Lite (though I HEAVILY prefer Miller Genuine Draft), write on Mead paper when I can buy it, look for Bosch spark plugs, fill up with Mobil gasoline, and I put that Mobil gasoline in a 2000 Ford Taurus. If only I could afford a Lennox air conditioner, though... : ) However, with the sponsorships of NASCAR edging near $15 million, and with the downturn of the U.S. economy, increased ticket prices, the proliferation of tracks (and cookie-cutter tracks at that), and the ever-increasing political nature of the series, NASCAR is going to have to evaluate itself before it ends up in the way of CART. There's talk (and it's just that right now, TALK) of a rival stock car series, grumblings among team owners and track constructors, and the whole deal involving Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, Tony Roper, and the driver who was killed at Daytona in February (I will not help disrespect the other three drivers by mentioning his name as if he were the only one to die, like NASCAR does). If they're not careful, there's gonna be a mass defection to other series, and if you think it can't happen, ask ANY CART team owner who was around in 1994. Just my long $0.02... Sundown

In article <[email hidden]>, "Sundown" <[email hidden]> writes: >There's talk (and it's just that right now, TALK) of a rival stock car >series, grumblings among team owners and track constructors, and the whole >deal involving Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, Tony Roper, and the driver who was >killed at Daytona in February (I will not help disrespect the other three >drivers by mentioning his name as if he were the only one to die, like >NASCAR does). How in the WORLD would it disrespect the other 3 to mention Dale? If you mention them all in the same statement, even a NON fan would understand that more than one has been lost... I don't agree with (or understand) your logic, sorry. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>There's talk (and it's just that right now, TALK) of a rival stock car >series, There already is a rival series in the works. It's called TRAC. Team Racing Auto Club I think. It works on the "team" principal where different parts of the country will have their own race team. So it's like football, baseball, basketball, etc. It's founded by Cale Yarbh...well, you NASCAR fans know who I'm talking about. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > And did you see the Brit 500cc GP? Wow! What a ride from Rossi, 11th > to 1st, sliding the rear tyre round the whole way. Damn impressive. > > Rafe Mc > Aye cracking stuff. The main problem was which channel to watch it on- live on both C5 and Eurosport :o) John

On 07 Jul 2001 17:16:30 GMT, [email hidden] (Target 12) wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>>CART cars were reaching top speeds at Michigan of about 255-260 MPH. > >Yeah, so? NASCAR reaches 200mph at Talladega. They'd be at about 220 or 230 >if they were unrestricted. >Racer X >Veteran Sim Racer >#4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC >#24 Monte Carlo in the DORL >Victory Lane- >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

And there are also a lot of restrictions on CART. What if Honda was allowed to run with 55 inches of boost?

Sundown wrote: > I drink Miller Lite (though I HEAVILY prefer Miller Genuine Draft), Hey Sundown...you're my kinda people! Mmmm...beer :-) Gary

>And there are also a lot of restrictions on CART. What if Honda was >allowed to run with 55 inches of boost? Now you're getting into NA vs. power adder. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > The focus in sports cars is more on the fan identifying with the CAR than > who's driving the car, which is justifiable seeing that the driver lineup > changes more than in other series... > > Someone mentioned that they though better racing came with technological > marvels instead of spec-series-type rules. Well that technological > marvelness led to the demise of IMSA GTP/Group C racing in Europe and here > in America. It has led to several notable CART car owners (i.e. John Della > Penna, Dan Gurney) being pinched out of the series. It's getting that way in > NASCAR with the advent of the multi-car operation, but it still gives the > "little" guys (such as Elliott Sadler, Johnny Benson, and Ron Fellows in > Busch) a decent shot at a top-ten finish, let alone a win. >

Strictly speaking, sports car racing was killed by a rule change introduced by the FISA in the late eighties, at least in Europe (and given that the American IMSA series was essentially a second string series for cars built to Group C specs, it was inevitable that it would follow suit). THe FISA were trying to get the sports car manufacturers (at the time, Peugeot, Toyota, Mercedes and Jaguar) interested in going into F1, so they introduced a 3.5 litre atmo engine formula for the series. Such a formula proved almost as expensive as F1, but with far less return for the manufacturers on their investment in terms of advertising and publicity. Not surprisingly, the series collapsed within two years of the rule change. Until then, the sports car series had been going strong under a mixed engine spec formula which allowed big atmo engines from Jaguar, Aston Martin et cetera, to compete with turbos from among others, Mercedes, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan and the legendary Porsche 962s. I don't think it is fair to say that a series which concentrates on the cars at the expense of the drivers is necessarily going to prove unpopular with the public. NASCAR may be big in the States, but outside the US, with the exception of UK F1 writer Nigel Roebuck, it has little media coverage and few watch it. Another series which concentrates on the drivers at the expense of the techonological side of the spot, International F3000, is likewise more or less ignored by the public, despite the fact it generally produces much better racing than F1 ever does. Whatever, can't wait for World Sports Cars to be released....I'l finally be able to set up virtual Group C racing. Patrick [email hidden] http://members.tripod.com/~PatrickD/index.html Tel-0131-661-3189 "Going to war over religion is essentially killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend" -Unknown