GT3 Countdown

Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo 3 this Tuesday along with the custom FF wheel. I know this is a PS2 game and most of the readers here are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed to be the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. -------------------- Sinjin www.SinjinSolves.com Your Guide to Success

"Sinjin" wrote... > Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release > of Gran Turismo 3 this Tuesday along with the custom FF > wheel. Can't say that I am, sorry. > I know this is a PS2 game and most of the readers here > are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed > to be the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher > in the next gen of racing sim. I haven't read or seen anything to indicate this might be the case. Depends on one's definition of sim, perhaps. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

On 08 Jul 2001 17:53:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Sinjin) wrote: >Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. I thought that was WSC? If it's so good then why aren't they making a PC version too?

No... "Sinjin" wrote: | Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo3 this | Tuesday along with the custom FF wheel. I know this is a PS2 game andmost of | the readers here are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed tobe | the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher in the next gen of racingsim. | -------------------- | Sinjin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

Sinjin wrote: > > Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo 3 this I'll pass. -- Fester

>"Sinjin" <[email hidden]> wrote >Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. GT3 doesn't really enter that category. Not at all, even. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

probably because the company that makes the Gran Tourismo games has no pc experience. They are strictly console developers. And since GT3 is a premier title, designed to increase console sales, it probably means the developers are constrained from providing this title to any other format. My son has a friend who will be getting it and the Logitech wheel. HE is going to bring it over because he knows I'm such a sim-head...That little rat-$$#@!%( will probably Kick my behind with it. Sure hope they have SOME sort of cockpit or nose cam....I can't, in good consceinse(sp?), fly a hang-glider behind a car. dave henrie "Noddy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 08 Jul 2001 17:53:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Sinjin) wrote: > > >Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. > > I thought that was WSC? If it's so good then why aren't they making a > PC version too? >

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes: > >"Sinjin" <[email hidden]> wrote > >Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. > > GT3 doesn't really enter that category. Not at all, even. it doesn't really. there's nothing really new about it. but it's heaps and loads of great fun. possibly the most fun ever. and the regular Formula Force GP USB-wheel works with it. woohoo. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> probably because the company that makes the Gran Tourismo games has no pc > experience. They are strictly console developers. And since GT3 is a > premier title, designed to increase console sales, it probably means the > developers are constrained from providing this title to any other format. > My son has a friend who will be getting it and the Logitech wheel. HE is > going to bring it over because he knows I'm such a sim-head...That little > rat-$$#@!%( will probably Kick my behind with it. Sure hope they have SOME > sort of cockpit or nose cam....I can't, in good consceinse(sp?), fly a > hang-glider behind a car.

there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, unfortunately. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

Very simple! What sells a console? EXCLUSIVE SOFTWARE! If you can't get an excellent game on any other platform, and you really want this game, then you just may consider getting this platform. That is how Sony is planning to sell more PS2s, with exclusive software like GT3. Not because they don't know how to make games for the PC, because they don't WANT to make games for the PC, or any other platform. "Noddy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 08 Jul 2001 17:53:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Sinjin) wrote: > > >Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. > > I thought that was WSC? If it's so good then why aren't they making a > PC version too? >

Yes, I am Sinjin. I agree with you, I think it's a major breakthrough for car simulators, this game. Most of the people here have never seen GT3, don't know much about it, and think it's crap just because it's only available on a console. They are simply ignorant snobs, I'm sorry to say, but it's the truth. I mean, you can have an opinion, but if you give an opinion about something you know nothing about, it's not worth much (but we ARE on the internet here, so what else is new :-). I actually just saw GT3 in action connected to the Logitech FF wheel. It is, hands down, the most gorgeous car racing game ever made (so far). I didn't get to drive much but the physics are good as well as the feedback. I really haven't had a chance to test how good or complete a simulation it is, but there is no doubt that the laws of physics are playing a strong role at making the game feel real. And there are so many damn cars to choose from, all extremely detailed. Lots of details and fine touches. You simply can't find a PC game that comes close to GT3 in it's completeness. We PC car simulator fans are anxiously awaiting WSC, which I really hope will fill all of our desires, but frankly, I'm a little worried. We can just hold our fingers crossed. I had no interest in buying the PS2, but now I'm actually considering buying the new PS2/GT3 bundle next week simply to play GT3 on a big screen with the FF wheel. "Sinjin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo3 this > Tuesday along with the custom FF wheel. I know this is a PS2 game andmost of > the readers here are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed tobe > the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher in the next gen of racingsim.

Uh... ok, I just re-read my post and I admit that I got carried away... sorry about that. It's just that GT3 gets a lot of flak in the past on this newsgroup, and I really don't understand the harsh critics. Oh well, be happy, have fun. Alain. "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Mb527.3844$[email hidden]... > Yes, I am Sinjin. I agree with you, I think it's a major breakthrough for > car simulators, this game.

I have had the oppotunity to play GT and GT2 on the Playstation. No cockpit view and the build up of the games is arcade (ie. earn tracks/cars through races and the AI are "fast when behind"). I have seen nothing to indicate GT3 is any different. From screenshots and preview movies it looks like NFS:PU for the PS2 to me (without the latter's cockpit option), so I'm supposed to get excited? -Pluheeeze! Now Dice's "Project Australia" (Aussie touring cars using the STCC2 engine), that might be something if it ever materialises. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Alain" wrote... > <snip>

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > I have had the oppotunity to play GT and GT2 on the Playstation. No cockpit > view and the build up of the games is arcade (ie. earn tracks/cars through > races and the AI are "fast when behind"). > > I have seen nothing to indicate GT3 is any different. It's not. I'm really annoyed by the "fast when behind, slow when in front" behaviour.In a typical 2 (! Beginning leagues.) lap race you can manage a 10 second gap in the first lap, next lap the gap stays the same... -- -asbjxrn

Of all the arcade racers i've played the GT series seems to have the best physics and gameplay. If the PS2 wasn't �280 here in the UK, I might consider getting one for GT3. I've seen a fairly lengthy video from it, and the graphics are excellent, although perhaps not as stunning as I was hoping. When compared with the visuals in F355 Challenge or Sega GT, GT3 is only just ahead. Although the physics aren't up there with a top notch simulation, I always enjoyed GT1. For gameplay and raceability, it was hard to beat. "Sinjin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo3 this > Tuesday along with the custom FF wheel. I know this is a PS2 game andmost of > the readers here are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed tobe > the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher in the next gen of racingsim.

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> > > > -------------------- > Sinjin > www.SinjinSolves.com > Your Guide to Success

Well Asbj�rn, thanks for the info but now you've got me curious... what does a 3-time online (GPL) GP winner think of the physics and the simulation aspect of the game? Jan. =--- "Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" ...

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> <snip> > It's not. I'm really annoyed by the "fast when behind, > slow when in front" behaviour.In a typical 2 (! Beginning > leagues.) lap race you can manage a 10 second gap in the > first lap, next lap the gap stays the same... > -- > -asbjxrn

In article <%5427.318518$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > My son has a friend who will be getting it and the Logitech wheel. HE is >going to bring it over because he knows I'm such a sim-head...That little >rat-$$#@!%( will probably Kick my behind with it. Sure hope they have SOME >sort of cockpit or nose cam....I can't, in good consceinse(sp?), fly a >hang-glider behind a car. When in Rome...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > Well Asbj�rn, thanks for the info but now you've got me curious... what does > a 3-time online (GPL) GP winner think of the physics and the simulation > aspect of the game? Lol. Yea, I'm a big-shot all right.. I've only played it for a couple of hours, and I have mostly played it with a joypad, which doesn't really give that car feeling. I have played one or two races with the logi wheel. As I'm used to the old logi wheel which I find much nicer I don't know if it is the wheel or the game that is to blame, but the feel was not as good as I expected. The whole thing felt mushy. It was almost better to use the joypad, actually. As for the simulation. The only part of the game where realistic driving techniques pay off is in the license tests. In the races themselves: Who cares about car setup, just buy some addons and make the car more powerful. As for lines, the fastest line through a corner is to not brake, but to t-bone another car in the middle of the turn, or just bounce off some walls. I usually drive "proper" anyway, but it is frustrating. Physics; I don't know. I don't think it really matters, though. It's an arcade game, and the physics are good enough for that. I used to play GT1 a lot. Just loved that Viper... But GT3 was just too little improvement on GT1. I was expecting more. I was considering buying GT3 and a PS2, but after trying it out, I'm not so sure. -- -asbjxrn

So the next generation of racing sims has no cockpit view? Interesting. I like how Alain says he doesn't know how good or complete the physics are, but calls it a great sim because of graphics and "so many damn cars to choose from". Oh well, I judge my sims with a different set of standards than how many cars it has. But then again, everyone has their opinion on which sim is the best, so go with what you like. Not like I should be able to stop you from playing the game. JB Sinjin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo3 this > Tuesday along with the custom FF wheel. I know this is a PS2 game andmost of > the readers here are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed tobe > the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher in the next gen of racingsim.

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> > > > -------------------- > Sinjin > www.SinjinSolves.com > Your Guide to Success

>"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote > Uh... ok, I just re-read my post and I admit that I got carried away... > sorry about that. I've seen and raced it. It's nothing more then an evolution, a step from the original PSX games. It's great fun, but it's far away in realism compared to most of the serious PC simulators. Lack of cockpit or realistic view really puts it down to all of our eyes. But hey, you'll like it even more if you have a fetish for jaggies <G> :) The original post alluded to GT3 as the "next gen of racing sim.". Sorry, but GT3 does not fit in that category. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6P427.3751$[email hidden]... > Very simple! What sells a console? EXCLUSIVE SOFTWARE! If you can't get > an excellent game on any other platform, and you really want this game,then > you just may consider getting this platform. GT3 may very well be the very best game ever. I'm not spending �300 on the console, �50 on a decent whell and �40 on the game for the privalage of playing it. Doug

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Tra27.3400$[email hidden]...

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> >"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Uh... ok, I just re-read my post and I admit that I got carried away... > > sorry about that. > > > I've seen and raced it. It's nothing more then an evolution, a step from > the original PSX games. It's great fun, but it's far away in realism > compared to most of the serious PC simulators

"The serious PC Simulators" Err - I know of 2 of them. GPL and N4. Any other takers? Doug

On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:17:47 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> probably because the company that makes the Gran Tourismo games has no pc >experience. They are strictly console developers. And since GT3 is a >premier title, designed to increase console sales, it probably means the >developers are constrained from providing this title to any other format. > My son has a friend who will be getting it and the Logitech wheel. HE is >going to bring it over because he knows I'm such a sim-head...That little >rat-$$#@!%( will probably Kick my behind with it. Sure hope they have SOME >sort of cockpit or nose cam....I can't, in good consceinse(sp?), fly a >hang-glider behind a car. >dave henrie

If it doesn't have a cockpit then it's not even a contender as a sim.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:40:32 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: >there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, >unfortunately. Pfft! Good thing it's not being ported to then PC then, not many PC users would buy a racing game with no cockpit.

On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:33:12 -0400, "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You simply can't find a PC game that comes close to GT3 in it's >completeness. It doesn't even have a cockpit. How is that complete? Sounds like a kids arcade game to me. Yes, I'm a snob and proud of it too.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:48:58 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Now Dice's "Project Australia" (Aussie touring cars using the STCC2 engine), >that might be something if it ever materialises. Now that has me interested! Any links to info on this one?

>"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I've seen and raced it. It's nothing more then an evolution, a stepfrom > > the original PSX games. It's great fun, but it's far away in realism > > compared to most of the serious PC simulators > > "The serious PC Simulators" > > Err - I know of 2 of them. GPL and N4. Any other takers? MBTR, F1CS2k, Rally Championship, F1RC, GP3, SCGT, Ratbag games, etc... (going towards less serious sims) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:10:22 +0100, Derek James <[email hidden]> wrote: >www.dice.se has a small taster. Thx. > Looks like an Aussie only release. Oh well, maybe it will be available at an online vendor. >Though that'd be no loss if the AI from STCC2 is carried over. Far too >easy. Is it? Damn. Someone I know just went to the UK yesterday and I asked them to bring me back STCC2.

On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:10:22 +0100, Derek James >www.dice.se has a small taster. Thx. Oh well, maybe it will be available at an online vendor. Is it? Damn. Someone I know just went to the UK yesterday and I asked them to bring me back STCC2.

Noddy <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:40:32 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, > >unfortunately. > > Pfft! Good thing it's not being ported to then PC then, not many PC > users would buy a racing game with no cockpit.

so don't buy it, shut up, and let me have my fun. problem solved. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:45:24 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >MBTR, F1CS2k, Rally Championship, F1RC, GP3, SCGT, Ratbag games, etc... >(going towards less serious sims) Superbike 2001

Not quite what I said, but it doesn't matter... I did admit to getting carried away :-). Ok, so it's not the best simulator ever, but it doesn't feel like 100% pure arcade, like the NFS series, for example. Someone here said the AI plays arcade style, that may be true, I didn't play long enough to see a pattern, but in multiplayer it should be pretty good. Here's a test for you: try out GT3, I mean REALLY try GT3, don't just read about it, or look at a video, and then come back here and tell us how you wouldn't be interested in something like it for the PC. That's where I'm coming from... As for the cockpit mode, sure they haven't reproduced the insides of the cars for you to look at, but in first person mode, you get a good view with all the necessary dials, info and rear-view mirror overlaid on the screen. I mean your average PC/TV screen is so small that it's like looking through a car windshield already anyhow :-P. Again, I'm settling down after having seen it, but I still am jealous because I wish we had a PC simulation that enabled us to drive realistic street cars. I have a lot of hope invested in WSC. "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k7927.1597$[email hidden]... > So the next generation of racing sims has no cockpit view? Interesting.I > like how Alain says he doesn't know how good or complete the physics are, > but calls it a great sim because of graphics and "so many damn cars to > choose from". Oh well, I judge my sims with a different set of standards > than how many cars it has. But then again, everyone has their opinion on > which sim is the best, so go with what you like. Not like I should beable > to stop you from playing the game. > > JB

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yhk27.7214$[email hidden]...

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> >"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > I've seen and raced it. It's nothing more then an evolution, a step > from > > > the original PSX games. It's great fun, but it's far away in realism > > > compared to most of the serious PC simulators > > > > "The serious PC Simulators" > > > > Err - I know of 2 of them. GPL and N4. Any other takers? > > > MBTR,

Yeah - ok - forgot about that. Driving trucks isnt my bag reall.y >F1CS2k,A sim - this EA pile of rubbish - errr, Nope. > Rally Championship,Looked nice - physics was nowhere - not a sim. > F1RC,See above > GP3,See above - but scrap the looking nice bit. >SCGT,Looked OK, physics crap >Ratbag games, etc... Mud, mud glorious mud Doug

How about Viper Racing? I consider it a true sim. I agree with you about GPL and N4 being true sims (MBTR and Superbike 2001 are true sims as well). And it's true that F1CS2k and Rally Championship don't really feel like true sims, but FIRC and GP3 are probably the best modern F1 sims right now (although F1RC is in need of an AI patch and GP3 isn't that good looking). Then again, what do I know? :-P Ratbag games have cool physics, but are they sims? "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fnl27.11865$[email hidden]...

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> > MBTR, > Yeah - ok - forgot about that. Driving trucks isnt my bag reall.y > > > >F1CS2k, > A sim - this EA pile of rubbish - errr, Nope. > > > Rally Championship, > Looked nice - physics was nowhere - not a sim. > > > F1RC, > See above > > > GP3, > See above - but scrap the looking nice bit. > > >SCGT, > Looked OK, physics crap > > >Ratbag games, etc... > > Mud, mud glorious mud > > > Doug

I'm sure you'll enjoy it... AI is a bit naf in places, nearly uncatchable in others and if you get caught up a in a mele and spun out... see ya!. At least that's my experience. It looks good and the cars are satisfying to drive. I'm not disappointed with it like I was with Pro Rally 2001 and Colin McRae 2. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Noddy" wrote... > <snip> > Is it? Damn. Someone I know just went to the UK > yesterday and I asked them to bring me back STCC2.

"Alain" wrote... > <snip> > Here's a test for you: try out GT3, I mean REALLY try > GT3, don't just read about it, or look at a video, and > then come back here and tell us how you wouldn't be > interested in something like it for the PC. That's > where I'm coming from... Sure I'd like to see a PC sim featuring Gran Turismo style cars, but not *like* Gran Turismo... that's where I'm coming from. ;-) Jan. =--- <snip>

On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:11:32 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: >so don't buy it, shut up, and let me have my fun. problem solved. I won't be buying it, but I won't shut up just because you say to either. This is an open discussion forum and I am expressing my right to make any comment I like.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:27:06 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'm sure you'll enjoy it... AI is a bit naf in places, nearly uncatchable in >others and if you get caught up a in a mele and spun out... see ya!. > >At least that's my experience. It looks good and the cars are satisfying to >drive. I'm not disappointed with it like I was with Pro Rally 2001 and Colin >McRae 2. > >Jan.

I liked the demo so I will probably like the game too.

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>"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote > MBTR, > Yeah - ok - forgot about that. Driving trucks isnt my bag reall.y > >F1CS2k, > A sim - this EA pile of rubbish - errr, Nope. > > Rally Championship, > Looked nice - physics was nowhere - not a sim. > > F1RC, > See above > > GP3, > See above - but scrap the looking nice bit. > >SCGT, > Looked OK, physics crap > >Ratbag games, etc... > Mud, mud glorious mud

Well if for you those aren't considered simulations, then it's impossible to classify GT3 as a simulation :) Oh and yeah I forgot Viper Racing and Soda : Off-Road. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

RC2K

Alright, so we agree that we want the "perfect" racing simulation with tons of wonderful cars and tracks on the PC. Problem is that we can only have what is available now... :-) "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Sure I'd like to see a PC sim featuring Gran Turismo style cars, but not > *like* Gran Turismo... that's where I'm coming from. ;-)

Yes the ultimate simulator will have 1000 cars and 2000 tracks...it would be perfect because the more cars and tracks you have, the more perfect it is. </sarcasm> Jesse Black PS If you want tracks, GPL has 93 or so tracks out...not including all of those tracks reversed (and since you are into those fantasy GT3 tracks, the reversed tracks would be a ball for you...I would assume that is)...GP3 has tons too...if you want cars, check out SCGT...sure it may lack some in the physics, but hey, it has a ton of cars, what more could YOU want. Hopefully WSC will combine all of these things without becoming too fantasy...we will see. Alain <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dMo27.7657$[email hidden]... > Alright, so we agree that we want the "perfect" racing simulation withtons

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> of wonderful cars and tracks on the PC. Problem is that we can only have > what is available now... :-) > > > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Sure I'd like to see a PC sim featuring Gran Turismo style cars, but not > > *like* Gran Turismo... that's where I'm coming from. ;-) > > >

Viper has good physics...but because of the fake tracks, I don't hold it high up on my list of sims...all of GT3 tracks are modeled from their real life counterparts correct?....or not. JB Alain <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IGl27.7155$[email hidden]...

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> How about Viper Racing? I consider it a true sim. > > I agree with you about GPL and N4 being true sims (MBTR and Superbike 2001 > are true sims as well). And it's true that F1CS2k and Rally Championship > don't really feel like true sims, but FIRC and GP3 are probably the best > modern F1 sims right now (although F1RC is in need of an AI patch and GP3 > isn't that good looking). Then again, what do I know? :-P > > Ratbag games have cool physics, but are they sims? > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fnl27.11865$[email hidden]... > > > MBTR, > > Yeah - ok - forgot about that. Driving trucks isnt my bag reall.y > > > > > > >F1CS2k, > > A sim - this EA pile of rubbish - errr, Nope. > > > > > Rally Championship, > > Looked nice - physics was nowhere - not a sim. > > > > > F1RC, > > See above > > > > > GP3, > > See above - but scrap the looking nice bit. > > > > >SCGT, > > Looked OK, physics crap > > > > >Ratbag games, etc... > > > > Mud, mud glorious mud > > > > > > Doug > > >

Gunnar Horrigmo wrote:

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> > Noddy <[email hidden]> writes: > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:40:32 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, > > >unfortunately. > > > > Pfft! Good thing it's not being ported to then PC then, not many PC > > users would buy a racing game with no cockpit. > > so don't buy it, shut up, and let me have my fun. problem solved.

No, you shut up and let the man have HIS say! No cockpit = not a sim, so go and have your fun in alt.arcade.secondrate.sims! Problem solved!

Gunnar Horrigmo wrote:

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >"Sinjin" <[email hidden]> wrote > > >Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. > > > > GT3 doesn't really enter that category. Not at all, even. > > it doesn't really. there's nothing really new about it. but it's > heaps and loads of great fun. possibly the most fun ever.

According to David G Fisner, wanking is the most fun ever! Gerry "Wanking is the most fun ever!" -- David G Fisner

Douglas Ellison wrote:

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Tra27.3400$[email hidden]... > > >"Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Uh... ok, I just re-read my post and I admit that I got carried away... > > > sorry about that. > > > > > > I've seen and raced it. It's nothing more then an evolution, a step from > > the original PSX games. It's great fun, but it's far away in realism > > compared to most of the serious PC simulators > > "The serious PC Simulators" > > Err - I know of 2 of them. GPL and N4. Any other takers? > > Doug

Revs on a CBM 64 emulator :) Gerry

On 08 Jul 2001 17:53:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Sinjin) wrote: >Anyone else in this groups anxiously awaiting the release of Gran Turismo 3 this >Tuesday along with the custom FF wheel. I know this is a PS2 game and most of >the readers here are PC gamers but was just curious as this is supposed to be >the racer to end all racers. Or at least usher in the next gen of racing sim. > GT3 was made to make money. That's all. GPL was made to (1) be the best simulator and (2) make money. It failed misterably at #2 but after 3 years GPL is still the best simulator available. You are a sucker to Sony if you believe all the hype around this thing

Who said quantity without quality? Just little negative YOU. :-P "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tsq27.2599$[email hidden]... > Yes the ultimate simulator will have 1000 cars and 2000 tracks...it wouldbe

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> perfect because the more cars and tracks you have, the more perfect it is. > > </sarcasm> > > Jesse Black > > PS If you want tracks, GPL has 93 or so tracks out...not including all of > those tracks reversed (and since you are into those fantasy GT3 tracks,

the > reversed tracks would be a ball for you...I would assume that is)...GP3has > tons too...if you want cars, check out SCGT...sure it may lack some in the > physics, but hey, it has a ton of cars, what more could YOU want.Hopefully > WSC will combine all of these things without becoming too fantasy...wewill > see.

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > probably because the company that makes the Gran Tourismo games hasno pc > > experience. They are strictly console developers. And since GT3 is a > > premier title, designed to increase console sales, it probably means the > > developers are constrained from providing this title to any otherformat. > > My son has a friend who will be getting it and the Logitech wheel. HEis > > going to bring it over because he knows I'm such a sim-head...Thatlittle > > rat-$$#@!%( will probably Kick my behind with it. Sure hope they haveSOME > > sort of cockpit or nose cam....I can't, in good consceinse(sp?), fly a > > hang-glider behind a car. > > there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, > unfortunately. And that will just about cinch it for me.... no cockpit view in a simulator of this caliber - why? I just don't get it - surely the PS2 could handle the presentation of some degree of the cockpit. I'd settle for the view that Sega used in F-355 Challenge for the Dreamcast. You see the top of the dash and the top third of the movable steering wheel, complete with hands. It's a whole lot better than nothing... I'm in utter bewilderment over this! John Cauthen

I'm guessing that with over 300 cars it would have taken an extra CD just to hold all the digital imagery of the dashboards/interior.

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> >And that will just about cinch it for me.... no cockpit view in a simulator >of this caliber - why? I just don't get it - surely the PS2 could handle >the presentation of some degree of the cockpit. I'd settle for the view >that Sega used in F-355 Challenge for the Dreamcast. You see the top of the >dash and the top third of the movable steering wheel, complete with hands. >It's a whole lot better than nothing... I'm in utter bewilderment over this! > >John Cauthen >

-------------------- Sinjin www.SinjinSolves.com Your Guide to Success

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:09:43 GMT, ra300z <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On 08 Jul 2001 17:53:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Sinjin) wrote: > >GT3 was made to make money. That's all. > >GPL was made to (1) be the best simulator and (2) make money. It >failed misterably at #2 but after 3 years GPL is still the best >simulator available. > >You are a sucker to Sony if you believe all the hype around this thing

GPL was made to make money first of all. It wouldn't get past the paper sketches stage if they thought it wouldn't make money. Admittedly, the developers and the marketing / bean counters probably had differing goals at the end of the day, but I stick to my cynical opinion. The GT series are *excellent* games in my opinion. They would be in my top 10 all time favourite games along with GPL(undisputed #1). I sat down to play some Kyalami laps in GPL last night after re-installing new dashes for my Postman Pat Ferarri(yes, i'm that slow). After the track refusing to load (i have no idea why), i gave up. I could have deleted all the patches from my tracks folder, but I thought i'd try something else for a change. I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than running it on a PSX. I have some screenshots that I can post for interests sake if asked. The only flaw in the system is the draw-ahead of the PSX is replicated perfectly on the PC so you end up with annoying popup. The interesting thing (for me anyway) is that the graphics are sooo much better than the psx that you can actually read advertising boards long before they would be legible on a real psx. I was planning to play for about half and hour, but ended up finishing the licenses and using up another additional hour messing around and doing short races. Sure its an arcadey game, sure the physics are off, but its still fun. It shouldn't ever be compared to PC Sims, but rather PC Arcade games like Need for Speed / Test Drive, etc. I'm sorry to say that when comparing it that way, the PC comes off a poor second. Thinking of my all time fave games was an interesting diversion there. How many of you remember Elite, Thrust, Impossible Mission, Paradroid (c64). Sentinel(Geoff Crammond), Rainbow Islands, Kick Off 2 (amiga), etc Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

Noddy <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:11:32 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > >so don't buy it, shut up, and let me have my fun. problem solved. > > I won't be buying it, but I won't shut up just because you say to > either. This is an open discussion forum and I am expressing my right > to make any comment I like.

true. but we got your drift the first time. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 DE RECTIS NON TOLERANDUM EST

Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Gunnar Horrigmo wrote: > > Noddy <[email hidden]> writes: > > > On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:40:32 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, > > > >unfortunately. > > > > > > Pfft! Good thing it's not being ported to then PC then, not many PC > > > users would buy a racing game with no cockpit. > > > > so don't buy it, shut up, and let me have my fun. problem solved. > > No, you shut up and let the man have HIS say! No cockpit = not a

bullshit. > sim, so go and have your fun in alt.arcade.secondrate.sims! Problem > solved! yeah, great idea. lets ban all talk of arcade racers. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

"John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > there's the grill-view, yes. no hood-cam or in-car views, > > unfortunately. > > And that will just about cinch it for me.... no cockpit view in a simulator > of this caliber - why?

I agree. it doesn't make sense. it's still a damn godd game, though. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

[email hidden] (Sinjin) writes: > I'm guessing that with over 300 cars it would have taken an extra CD just to > hold all the digital imagery of the dashboards/interior. maybe. but a hood-cam would cost nothing. adding a hood-cam is just a matter of moving the camera. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

"Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> writes: > Viper has good physics...but because of the fake tracks, I don't hold it > high up on my list of sims...all of GT3 tracks are modeled from their real > life counterparts correct?....or not. some are. Laguna Seca, for example, looks to be quite correct, although I can't really say as I've never been there. :) I believe quite a few of the tracks are fictional, though. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

istoff <> writes: > I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired > up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at > 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than > running it on a PSX. is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a poster is a human being or the software equivalent"

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, in rec.autos.simulators you wrote:

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>istoff <> writes: > >> I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired >> up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at >> 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than >> running it on a PSX. > >is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it?

www.psxemu.com or www.epsxe.com i am posting some screenshots to members.fortunecity.com/istoff/gt2psxe/ building the html & index as we speak. uploading within 10 minutes.... hope *SOME* of you like it :) the bashers among you can comment all you like, but i still like it. it's a question of taste, and i never said mine was good :) Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>istoff <> writes: > >> I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired >> up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at >> 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than >> running it on a PSX. > >is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it?

sorry for missing the second part of your question. i tried using my MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc. I eventually went back to my dual shock joypad. the pages had a problem uploading, but they are done now. Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: >is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it? I don't have this emulator, but found this for you. Wonder what games work well on this emulator? All of them? http://www.psxemu.com/epsxe/download/ePSXe_FAQ.txt http://www.psxemu.com

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:21:25 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote: >true. but we got your drift the first time. He didn't so I will post as many times as it takes. Is that ok with you?

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:13:39 -0400, Noddy <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it? > >I don't have this emulator, but found this for you. Wonder what games >work well on this emulator? All of them? > >http://www.psxemu.com/epsxe/download/ePSXe_FAQ.txt > >http://www.psxemu.com

try http://psxlist.emu2k.com/ for a compatibility list Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

Istoff, I checked out your page but the jpg's don't seem to be working. Just get a "Fortune City" ad instead. What's up? Rafe Mc On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:13:09 +0200, istoff <> wrote:

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>On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>istoff <> writes: >> >>> I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired >>> up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at >>> 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than >>> running it on a PSX. >> >>is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it? >sorry for missing the second part of your question. i tried using my >MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to >use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc. > >I eventually went back to my dual shock joypad. > >the pages had a problem uploading, but they are done now. > > >Regards all, >istoff > >"Its easy to get lost in thought >if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

Noddy <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:21:25 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >true. but we got your drift the first time. > > He didn't so I will post as many times as it takes. Is that ok with > you?

whatever tickles your fancy. me? I'll try to improve my laptimes instead. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

Worked for me! Thanks Istoff, that was interesting... "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Istoff, I checked out your page but the jpg's don't seem to be > working. Just get a "Fortune City" ad instead. What's up? > > Rafe Mc

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:53:12 +0200, istoff <> wrote:

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>On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:09:43 GMT, ra300z <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>On 08 Jul 2001 17:53:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Sinjin) wrote: >> >>GT3 was made to make money. That's all. >> >>GPL was made to (1) be the best simulator and (2) make money. It >>failed misterably at #2 but after 3 years GPL is still the best >>simulator available. >> >>You are a sucker to Sony if you believe all the hype around this thing >GPL was made to make money first of all. It wouldn't get past the >paper sketches stage if they thought it wouldn't make money. >Admittedly, the developers and the marketing / bean counters probably >had differing goals at the end of the day, but I stick to my cynical >opinion. > >The GT series are *excellent* games in my opinion. They would be in >my top 10 all time favourite games along with GPL(undisputed #1). I >sat down to play some Kyalami laps in GPL last night after >re-installing new dashes for my Postman Pat Ferarri(yes, i'm that >slow). After the track refusing to load (i have no idea why), i gave >up. I could have deleted all the patches from my tracks folder, but I >thought i'd try something else for a change. > >I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired >up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at >1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than >running it on a PSX. I have some screenshots that I can post for >interests sake if asked. The only flaw in the system is the >draw-ahead of the PSX is replicated perfectly on the PC so you end up >with annoying popup. The interesting thing (for me anyway) is that >the graphics are sooo much better than the psx that you can actually >read advertising boards long before they would be legible on a real >psx.

I don't care for eye candy. I care for the physics model. Take your screenshots and ............ with them. They are worthless.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:02:48 GMT, ra300z <[email hidden]> wrote: >I don't care for eye candy. I care for the physics model. Take your >screenshots and ............ with them. They are worthless. >My my. What a friendly attitude. They are on MY webspace using up my account. It brings me some satisfaction that *some* people appreciated them. Who ever claimed that the GT2 physics model was great? Eye candy? Did you think that was great? What about the poor texturing and lousy detail? Almost any pc 3d accelerated title released in the last 3 of 4 years looks better than that. As for the physics model, its a psx game for kids. What do you expect? Most adults who like it like it more for the variety of cars and fun factor than the realism IMO. What you think of it is entirely up to you. My point was that playing GT2(its a game remember) on a pc using an emulator is just as satisfying as playing it on a psx, and it looks nicer. If it satisfied the few of us who would like to see a GT-like game on the PC then so be it. I'm slowly developing a thick skin here in RAS, despite the generally friendly atmosphere. If you feel that the post didn't belong in the ng, that's another story. what i can't understand is, why bother to comment if you don't have anything to add? maybe i should just assume everybody has a silent "in my opinion" on their posts when they say something. where's that monty python mp3. I need a laugh. Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

You know, GT series has a much better physics model than many a proclaimed sim on the PC. -Gregor ra300z wrote: > > I don't care for eye candy. I care for the physics model. Take your > screenshots and ............ with them. They are worthless.

Just curious, I have a Logitech Formula Force GP wheel with a USB connection. Since PS2 supports USB, is it possible to simply plug it in? -Gregor "Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" wrote:

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> > I have played one or two races with the logi wheel. As I'm used to the old > logi wheel which I find much nicer I don't know if it is the wheel or > the game that is to blame, but the feel was not as good as I > expected. The whole thing felt mushy. It was almost better to use the > joypad, actually. >

Heh, just found this: http://ps2.ign.com/news/30564.html As I just played the GT3 demo yesterday, I'll be off today to test it some more :) -Gregor Gregor Veble wrote:

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> > Just curious, I have a Logitech Formula Force GP wheel with a USB > connection. Since PS2 supports USB, is it possible to simply plug it in? > > -Gregor > > "Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" wrote: > > > > I have played one or two races with the logi wheel. As I'm used to the old > > logi wheel which I find much nicer I don't know if it is the wheel or > > the game that is to blame, but the feel was not as good as I > > expected. The whole thing felt mushy. It was almost better to use the > > joypad, actually. > >

Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> writes: > Just curious, I have a Logitech Formula Force GP wheel with a USB > connection. Since PS2 supports USB, is it possible to simply plug it in? Yes, the Logitech Formula Force GP wheel works, however, the Logitech Formula Force wheel (The old version) don't. (I saw your reply, just wanted to clarify for other readers.) -- -asbjxrn

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate another confirmation so the PS2 won't turn into a pile of ashes once I plug the wheel in :). -Gregor "Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" wrote:

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> > Yes, the Logitech Formula Force GP wheel works, however, > the Logitech Formula Force wheel (The old version) don't. > > (I saw your reply, just wanted to clarify for other readers.) > -- > -asbjxrn

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:55:01 +0200, istoff <> wrote: >Who ever claimed that the GT2 physics model was great? Well the original poster did suggest that GT3 is the next step in the evolution of racing simulation.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:05:02 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >You know, GT series has a much better physics model than many a >proclaimed sim on the PC. > >-Gregor Yea, and you also say USAF has a better flight model than JF18. :-)

Nope, I said USAF has a better physics model than, say Falcon 4.0, while I rated JF-18 on par, apart from one very serious bug. I didn't say it has a better flight model (which is determined by the parameters plugged into the physics model). Note the difference. GT series has a better physics model than, say, RC2k, and that one is considered a PC sim, right? -Gregor Noddy wrote: > > Yea, and you also say USAF has a better flight model than JF18. :-)

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:33:59 -0400, Noddy <[email hidden]> wrote: >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:55:01 +0200, istoff <> wrote: >>Who ever claimed that the GT2 physics model was great? > >Well the original poster did suggest that GT3 is the next step in the >evolution of racing simulation.ouch. you're right. I no longer have the original post available, but i remember other people referring to it, so no excuse for the oversight. at least I never claimed it had a great physics engine, anyway. besides, i've never played GT3 so am not qualified to comment on it anyway. now that I think of it, i wouldn't know what a good physics engine was even if it walked up to me in a bar and introduced itself as being a great physics engine. GT & GT2 both "feel" good to drive and the replays / camera views blew me away when I saw them the first time. I remember comparing them to NFS3 & TOCA at the time GT was around and saying the PC had nothing equivalent to compare. In some respects, thats still true, IMO. Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:37:50 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Nope, I said USAF has a better physics model than, say Falcon 4.0, while >I rated JF-18 on par, apart from one very serious bug. I didn't say it >has a better flight model (which is determined by the parameters plugged >into the physics model). Note the difference. > >GT series has a better physics model than, say, RC2k, and that one is >considered a PC sim, right? > >-Gregor

I think you determine *better* physics models by which one bounces around more and not by which is more realistic. Thus; your perception that SDOE has a superior physics model than all other flight-sims. Yes, it's me. :-)

Hi No...ddy! I determine the better physics model by seeing what is actually modelled (inertia, lift curves, tyre slip models etc.). What do you use to determine the better model? -Gregor Noddy wrote: > > I think you determine *better* physics models by which one bounces > around more and not by which is more realistic. Thus; your perception > that SDOE has a superior physics model than all other flight-sims. > Yes, it's me. :-)

"Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hi No...ddy! > > I determine the better physics model by seeing what is actually modelled > (inertia, lift curves, tyre slip models etc.). What do you use to > determine the better model? > > -Gregor

When I'm trying to determine which is the better model, I try and look at all their work, not just a few flashy covershots, but how well they work fashion shows and most importantly, the amount of swaying as they make the turn, low hip-level sway=Very Good...head swaying = very bad. Now models are also dependant upon outside forces as well, if they work several shows for CRAP designers, then they aquire a reputation of having no taste. and that means a serious loss of inc....what? oh.....the 'other' kind of models....sorry...nevermind........ dave henrie

Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> writes: > Just curious, I have a Logitech Formula Force GP wheel with a USB > connection. Since PS2 supports USB, is it possible to simply plug it in? yes. works like a charm. the force effects are a bit so-so, though. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:36:13 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hi No...ddy! > >I determine the better physics model by seeing what is actually modelled >(inertia, lift curves, tyre slip models etc.). What do you use to >determine the better model? The one that feels the best to *me*. USAF may well have a 6dof flight-model, but it's a completely porked one, same with SDOE.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Gregor Veble wrote: > You know, GT series has a much better physics model than many a > proclaimed sim on the PC. Having played around with a fair number of sims on both the PC and the Playstation, I think GT, while far from perfect, is really not that bad at all. In fact on PSX forums, people often complain about the 'tedious real wordl physics' on GT....I guess they all want to turn into corners without braking and would generally be much happier playing Ridge Racer or some such pish. Anyways, with the obvious exception of GPL, Gran Turismo isn't that far behind most PC sims anyway (the physics model on the much hyped Rally Championship 2000, in particular, is decidedly wrong). Of course the absence of a damage model is frustrating, but they would never have been able to get the car licenses they got if they had included that. World Sportscars looks promising though, doesn't it ? ><> P [email hidden] http://members.tripod.com/~PatrickD/index.html Tel-0131-661-3189 "Going to war over religion is essentially killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend"

USAF is indeed porked in some respects, no doubt about that. But one needs to make a clear distinction between whether it's the physics or the parameters that is wrong. Incidentally, the parameters for USAF are currently being tweaked as it seems a development team member leaked a tool; the excessive 'bobbing' is reportedly already eliminated on the F-4, and I have no doubt a very fine flight model will emerge. A similar discussion would go for SDOE; true, not all the planes have been tweaked to this date, but those that were (the Spitfires, Bf-109s, Mustang, Fw-190) and some newly created ones fly like a dream. On the other hand, no matter how much you would tweak EAW, the same feeling of flight cannot be achieved since the underlying model isn't good enough. You can make the performance to be up to specs, but some essential physics of flight will always be missing. To get back to r.a.s. : there exist numerous tweaks for RC 2000 physics, but one cannot make it feel real no matter what because a few essential ingredients will be missing. In the end, though, you might have a point, if a slightly different one that you wanted to make ;). In the end, they're all games, and if something works for you to immerse you into them, then let it be. -Gregor Noddy wrote: > > The one that feels the best to *me*. USAF may well have a 6dof > flight-model, but it's a completely porked one, same with SDOE.

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>P > >[email hidden] >http://members.tripod.com/~PatrickD/index.html >Tel-0131-661-3189 > >"Going to war over religion is essentially killing each other to see who >has the better imaginary friend"

my fave along this line is Fighting for peace is like f*$#ing for virginity. :) Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:00:04 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>USAF is indeed porked in some respects, no doubt about that. But one >needs to make a clear distinction between whether it's the physics or >the parameters that is wrong. Incidentally, the parameters for USAF are >currently being tweaked as it seems a development team member leaked a >tool; the excessive 'bobbing' is reportedly already eliminated on the >F-4, and I have no doubt a very fine flight model will emerge. >

hi, can you clarify which sims you are referring to? Janes? I saw that EA has re-released F15, Israeli AF, WW2 etc on budget for the equivalent of about US$5 . I might want to pick them up at that price. Interestingly Nascar 3 is on sale for about 10 dollars as well. Nascar 4 has *still* not been released in SA. Only available on import for now. Apparently not enough of a demand locally :( Also can you point me in the direction of the sight containing 3rd party addons to these sims? Most of the sites I come across are focussed on Falcon 4. thanks in advance. Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:00:04 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >To get back to r.a.s. : there exist numerous tweaks for RC 2000 physics, >but one cannot make it feel real no matter what because a few essential >ingredients will be missing. And I've used those tweaks and it feels better than CM2.0 to me. Rally Cars don't power slide around every corner without it being forced by the driver as in CM2.0. Now I'm not saying RC2K is really great, just that it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

No, RC2k is definitely not bad, and in many respects is the best rally sim available, even in the driving aspect. Much like Falcon 4.0 isn't bad either, even though some physics elements are missing. As I've often said, it's first about the physics model, and then, no less important what you make of it. Physics model of CMR 2.0 may actually model more physics details than RC2k, but still RC2k may feel beter in certain parts (most notably tarmac). Also, the flight model of Falcon 4.0 is definitely better than anything in USAF, even if USAF models inertia properly. Oh, and the cars in RC2k slide just as much (at least in the demo), but I've noticed that before any serious slide can develop, you are off the road already. In CMR 2.0, it's the wide roads that are the culprit for huge slides, which is what you would find in real life rallies on wide(er) roads as well. Try certain UK stages with CMR 2.0, and if you want to be reasonably fast, you will not tend to slide much. -Gregor Noddy wrote: > > And I've used those tweaks and it feels better than CM2.0 to me. Rally > Cars don't power slide around every corner without it being forced by > the driver as in CM2.0. Now I'm not saying RC2K is really great, just > that it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> writes: > No, RC2k is definitely not bad, and in many respects is the best rally > sim available, even in the driving aspect. I don't get it. on my computer I can't get 300 horsepower cars above 50 mph on inclines. I don't think that's very realistic. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

As I said, in many (and not all) respects. :) -Gregor Gunnar Horrigmo wrote:

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> > I don't get it. on my computer I can't get 300 horsepower cars above > 50 mph on inclines. I don't think that's very realistic. :) > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > myk, trygg og god.

istoff <> writes:

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> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >istoff <> writes: > > > >> I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd. I popped it in, fired > >> up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru. Running at > >> 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than > >> running it on a PSX. > > > >is EPSXE downloadable? can you use a steering wheel with it? > sorry for missing the second part of your question. i tried using my > MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to > use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc.

hm. did you get the biggest dead zone ever with your wheel? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:57:34 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>istoff <> writes: >> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> >istoff <> writes: >> > >> sorry for missing the second part of your question. i tried using my >> MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to >> use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc. > >hm. did you get the biggest dead zone ever with your wheel?

sorry for the late reply. couldn't get it to work properly. gave up and went back to using a joypad. Regards all, istoff

istoff <[email hidden]> writes:

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> On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:57:34 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >istoff <> writes: > >> On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:19 GMT, Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >istoff <> writes: > >> > > >> sorry for missing the second part of your question. i tried using my > >> MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to > >> use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc. > > > >hm. did you get the biggest dead zone ever with your wheel? > > sorry for the late reply.

not late at all. I just needed about a week to remember to ask. :) > couldn't get it to work properly. gave up and went back to using a > joypad. crap. anyone else know of a trick? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a poster is a human being or the software equivalent"