GP3 vs F1RC

been playing GP3 for ages, but felt that perhaps it was time for a change.... is F1RC a step up or step down? i know graphically, F1RC is well above GP3. but what about driving physics? comparable to GP3 (which IMO is pretty good in this department) or is it more dumbed down and arcadey? i know the AI is suposedly woeful in F1RC, but is it noticeably worse than GP3? or should i just wait a few more months for F1 2001 (assuming you won't need a 2ghz cpu and GF3 to run it)?

Hmmmmmmm Graphics well as you said no contest but ont just in terms of looks the object count and poly count is phenomenal and the framrate averages 5O to 60 FPS at 1280 x 960 on my 866 with GTS. Because of the higher framrate the car feels much more alive to me but thats just my opinion. The physics seem great to me. The AI ? errr lousy it varies from track to track but you can race them and they fight pretty hard. Regards Mike On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:34:02 +1000, "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>been playing GP3 for ages, but felt that perhaps it was time for a >change.... is F1RC a step up or step down? i know graphically, F1RC is well >above GP3. but what about driving physics? comparable to GP3 (which IMO is >pretty good in this department) or is it more dumbed down and arcadey? i >know the AI is suposedly woeful in F1RC, but is it noticeably worse than >GP3? or should i just wait a few more months for F1 2001 (assuming you won't >need a 2ghz cpu and GF3 to run it)? > > >

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:34:02 +1000, "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>been playing GP3 for ages, but felt that perhaps it was time for a >change.... is F1RC a step up or step down? i know graphically, F1RC is well >above GP3. but what about driving physics? comparable to GP3 (which IMO is >pretty good in this department) or is it more dumbed down and arcadey? i >know the AI is suposedly woeful in F1RC, but is it noticeably worse than >GP3? or should i just wait a few more months for F1 2001 (assuming you won't >need a 2ghz cpu and GF3 to run it)? >

It's a subjective thing for most. My disappointment with GP3 stems from the fact that I've played F1GP(Amiga), F1GP(PC) & GP2 almost exclusively for years. When GP3 came out, the evolution didn't seem as much as it should be. I immediately went back to (won't say it for fear of pissing off some folk) 1967. When F1RC came out I gave it a try. Much better than Monaco GP2 & certainly as good as or better than GP3 in my opinion. The eye candy was just a bonus. The AI is a known problem, but it doesn't bother me too much. Note that GP3 vs GP3 + all addons is almost like 2 different games so if you haven't installed all the addons, you might want to go that route. A major problem with the F1RC addons are that they haven't yet fully decoded the track layout formats and we basically are stuck with the tracks that shipped with the game + some new adverts / textures. Monza has still got the old first chicane complex and GP3 does at least have 2001 layouts. F1RC seems to offer a better feeling of slope and camber (right word?) of the tracks and driving GP3 seems less satisfying after driving F1RC for a while. Bottom line. Its flawed, but still very good. GP3 (despite excellent work by the gpxpatch team) feels a bit stale for me now. My racing time is divided between F1RC and that other older 1967 season sim. I *am* reading up on Nascar 4 (www.sascar.com) for another attempt at it though. :) all my opinion of course. Ubisoft bashers will differ. Since fixing a problem with my Geforce and my AMD chipset mobo, I will be giving F12000CS + AllChassis patch another go some time in the near future again. Last time it stayed installed for a whole hour :) Regards all, istoff "Its easy to get lost in thought if you don't go there often" - Me, 1993

From the demo, I'd say F1RC should be very well worth buying, unless you have a FF wheel on the effects of which you rely for driving technique, as this is one crucial aspect that only GP3 gets right of the current crop of modern F1 sims. -Gregor Kasper Kowalski wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > been playing GP3 for ages, but felt that perhaps it was time for a > change.... is F1RC a step up or step down? i know graphically, F1RC is well > above GP3. but what about driving physics? comparable to GP3 (which IMO is > pretty good in this department) or is it more dumbed down and arcadey? i > know the AI is suposedly woeful in F1RC, but is it noticeably worse than > GP3? or should i just wait a few more months for F1 2001 (assuming you won't > need a 2ghz cpu and GF3 to run it)?

Probably a step sideways :-) GP3 and F1RC are different, they both have pluses and minuses. Try the F1RC Demo for sure to see if you could like... Obviously you know about the shortcomings. I think it's like comparing Q3 and UT for the first person shooters... it's purely a matter of preference. Except that maybe Q3 and UT both seem to do everything right, whereas GP3 and F1RC both have minuses. "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H2d77.97163$[email hidden]... > been playing GP3 for ages, but felt that perhaps it was time for a > change.... is F1RC a step up or step down? i know graphically, F1RC iswell > above GP3. but what about driving physics? comparable to GP3 (which IMO is > pretty good in this department) or is it more dumbed down and arcadey? i > know the AI is suposedly woeful in F1RC, but is it noticeably worse than > GP3? or should i just wait a few more months for F1 2001 (assuming youwon't > need a 2ghz cpu and GF3 to run it)?

got a copy of F1RC and been playing for a few days graphically, it's pretty damn awesome... the GPS really helped. finally, the inclines/declines/bankings are all modelled as they should be. it really adds to the atmosphere of the game. in terms of driving though it's certainly quite a bit of fun, it is sadly, not a patch on GP3. i find F1RC very twitchy, the car either has grip, or has none, there is no middle ground. GP3, though difficult, has a great deal more feedback.... the car is far more communicative and responds much better to driver input. perhaps it's my driving style.. i like to carry brakes very deep and use a lot of power on the way out.. and get the car moving. can't see to do this with any sort of regularity in F1RC :( ... F1rc overall, just seems too arcadey but in terms of fun factor, F1RC is right up there. ghost laps, driving one on one.... cerainly lenty to keep me amused for the time being..... any good physics updates for F1RC to bump the realism up a few notches? KK

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:48:10 +1000, "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (22 lines)

>got a copy of F1RC and been playing for a few days > >graphically, it's pretty damn awesome... the GPS really helped. finally, the >inclines/declines/bankings are all modelled as they should be. it really >adds to the atmosphere of the game. > >in terms of driving though it's certainly quite a bit of fun, it is sadly, >not a patch on GP3. i find F1RC very twitchy, the car either has grip, or >has none, there is no middle ground. GP3, though difficult, has a great deal >more feedback.... the car is far more communicative and responds much better >to driver input. perhaps it's my driving style.. i like to carry brakes very >deep and use a lot of power on the way out.. and get the car moving. can't >see to do this with any sort of regularity in F1RC :( ... F1rc overall, just >seems too arcadey > >but in terms of fun factor, F1RC is right up there. ghost laps, driving one >on one.... cerainly lenty to keep me amused for the time being..... any good >physics updates for F1RC to bump the realism up a few notches? > >KK > >

Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC *is* the most realistic F1 sim.

>"01001110 01101111 01110010" <?@noemail.invalid> wrote > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC > *is* the most realistic F1 sim. And he's just a singular opinion upon the millions of them... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

No way Fran�ois!! 6billion.. hahahaha "ymenard" wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

| And he's just a singular opinion upon the millions of them... | -- | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> | >"01001110 01101111 01110010" <?@noemail.invalid> wrote | > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC | > *is* the most realistic F1 sim.

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

"01001110 01101111 01110010" <?@noemail.invalid> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC > *is* the most realistic F1 sim. he probably doesn't own a car... i like F1RC, but in no way could it be called superior to GP3 in terms of driving..... it's obvious that there is something seriously wrong with the physics model as far as tyre behaviour goes. slides aren't progressive, and brake/throttle application has no 'feel' to it. no, GP3 is far better in this aspect, the slightest changes to setup are immediately obvious when driving.... though it's not GPL, it comes closer than any other F1 game IMO. now i sit and wait patiently like everyone else for the patch. :\ KK

In article <[email hidden]>, ?@noemail.invalid says... > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC > *is* the most realistic F1 sim. ..and heaven forbid that he isn't allowed an opinion. An opinion that I happen to agree with. Cheers, Rod.

Another guy from r.a.s. who trys a sim for a couple of days and then draws definitive conclusions while comparing it to his favorite. Big surprise. In another post you say you've been driving GP3 for "ages", but F1RC gets a couple of days. Whatever you are experiencing now is absolutely not what you will be experiencing in two weeks or two months. Not with this sim or any other quality sim. You can't possible have explored and mastered the control of the cars in F1RC in a couple of days. What are your best times at Silverstone, Monza, Imola, Austria, Melbourne, and Spa? Are you within a second or two of the best times on the net? Are you pushing the cars to at least 99% of their limit? Have you worked with the setups? I and others can slide the car when we want to, dance on the edge, and it's a lot of fun to do so. Throttle and steering input is smooth and precise. What wheel do you have and what wheel and pedal settings do you use? Linear? Exponential? Dead zone? GP3 feels like the cars are on rails in comparison. I'm told by someone who's opinions I respect that the GPxPatch patch makes a positive difference in GP3, but haven't tried it yet. For the stock setups in F1RC, a good base to start with is to stiffen the front springs and dampers and soften the rears, drop the ride height, move the differential to center, make the front wings one or two points less than the rears, lower the gear ratios about 2 points each, set the rear anti roll bar to about 50,000 and the front to about 95,000, and lower the packers/bump stops 5 points each. Or, you could just download Ian Bell's setups from Blackhole Motorsports. Ever heard of Ian? He made setups for GP3. Ever tried them? He knows how to set up a car, and his setups for F1RC are excellent. Here are his comments about F1RC from awhile back. You may soon see a bit of yourself in them. ------------------------------------- Hi all. To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game or got second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to say that I was wrong! The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and blue screens, it is close to perfect. I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable when oversteering and it's awesome! Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and I jumped in too soon. In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor and this ones growing like a baby. It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's this area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thought I'd say that) You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handles like the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about - exploring the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's what GPL does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game. For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it some time, it's bloody excellent. This SIM is very similar to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding stepping over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generally aren't going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the visual change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in the suspension movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's not that. Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit. The screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until they are hanging out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, the feedback I take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL, this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Also the suspension arms don't move much. Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon and in the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming I get any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious. OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost uncontrollable is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you touch the left curbing. In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors: 1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band out of the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear. 2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (a recipe for oversteer) Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do have Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren. The Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent. Sorry to go on. Ian Bell GPLRank -16.8 "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T%5a7.3049$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > "01001110 01101111 01110010" <?@noemail.invalid> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC > > *is* the most realistic F1 sim. > > he probably doesn't own a car... i like F1RC, but in no way could it be > called superior to GP3 in terms of driving..... it's obvious that there is > something seriously wrong with the physics model as far as tyre behaviour > goes. slides aren't progressive, and brake/throttle application has no > 'feel' to it. no, GP3 is far better in this aspect, the slightest changes

to > setup are immediately obvious when driving.... though it's not GPL, itcomes

Quoted text (8 lines)

> closer than any other F1 game IMO. > > now i sit and wait patiently like everyone else for the patch. :\ > > KK > > >

David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4aa7.60606$[email hidden]... > Whatever you are experiencing now is absolutely not what you will be > experiencing in two weeks or two months. Not with this sim or anyother > quality sim. You can't possible have explored and mastered thecontrol of > the cars in F1RC in a couple of days. What are your best times at > Silverstone, Monza, Imola, Austria, Melbourne, and Spa? Are youwithin a > second or two of the best times on the net? Are you pushing the carsto at > least 99% of their limit? Have you worked with the setups? I andothers can As someone who doesn't own GP3, what proportion of drivers *ever* get within "a second or two of the best times on the net"? Just wondering 'cos my GPL times, after a good 18 months or more, don't look like they'll ever be anywhere near that :-( And I /do/ do extensive setup development... Jonny

On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 06:11:24 GMT, Rod Prince <[email hidden]> wrote: >..and heaven forbid that he isn't allowed an opinion. An opinion >that I happen to agree with. > >Cheers, >Rod. Just stirring the pot.

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Another guy from r.a.s. who trys a sim for a couple of days and then draws > definitive conclusions while comparing it to his favorite. Like you did for Nascar Racing 4? (if you ever tried anything else then the demo...) LOL I guess you have double-standards. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Kasper, I never had F1RC but a friend does and I just had the chance to race it on his system this week. I thought the feel of F1RC was kiddy like! Almost "Arcade'ish" but I am *so* into graphics that F1RC looked like one from a video arcade game at one of our local malls to me.. Odd? In regards to your comments, my feelings parallel to yours on F1RC verses GP3.. GP3 is not the best but for me GP3 does exactly what you describe, imho.. -Thom_j. btw I have 2 cars, 2 Harleys, yes I do drive & I use to race. :) "Kasper Kowalski" wrote: | he probably doesn't own a car... i like F1RC, but in no way could it be | called superior to GP3 in terms of driving..... it's obvious that there is | something seriously wrong with the physics model as far as tyre behaviour | goes. slides aren't progressive, and brake/throttle application has no | 'feel' to it. no, GP3 is far better in this aspect, the slightest changesto | setup are immediately obvious when driving.... though it's not GPL, itcomes

Quoted text (8 lines)

| closer than any other F1 game IMO. | | now i sit and wait patiently like everyone else for the patch. :\ | | KK | | |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

LOL. I said N4 was an excellent sim if you like NASCAR. Just like GPL is an excellent sim if you like historic F1. So desperate you are. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T7ga7.46954$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Another guy from r.a.s. who trys a sim for a couple of days and thendraws > > definitive conclusions while comparing it to his favorite. > > Like you did for Nascar Racing 4? (if you ever tried anything else thenthe

Quoted text (17 lines)

> demo...) > > LOL I guess you have double-standards. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Are you just realizing this Fran�ois? :) "ymenard" wrote: | LOL I guess you have double-standards. | -- | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose which post to use to attack me. I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you pretending you didn't, which is the same as LYING. David G Fisher "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Z3ia7.62270$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (15 lines)

> Are you just realizing this Fran�ois? :) > > "ymenard" wrote: > | LOL I guess you have double-standards. > | -- > | -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! "David G Fisher" wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

| Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose which | post to use to attack me. | | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you pretending you | didn't, which is the same as LYING. | | David G Fisher

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

I never said I beta tested GPL you moron. I did beta VROC. John O' Keefe (who I've tested games with and for, going back almost four years) asked me to be part of the first small group to try it out. Maybe if you weren't so anxious to rip into me, you'd read postings more clearly. David G Fisher "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MAia7.62344$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for > GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological > lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! > > "David G Fisher" wrote: > | Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose which > | post to use to attack me. > | > | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you pretending

you

Quoted text (12 lines)

> | didn't, which is the same as LYING. > | > | David G Fisher > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

BTW didn't answer if you read my response to ymenard? Why did you back him up when you already knew what my reply was to him. David G Fisher "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MAia7.62344$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for > GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological > lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! > > "David G Fisher" wrote: > | Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose which > | post to use to attack me. > | > | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you pretending

you

Quoted text (12 lines)

> | didn't, which is the same as LYING. > | > | David G Fisher > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > I said N4 was an excellent sim if you like NASCAR. Yet you didn't even know that it didn't had variable tyre wear depending on the race lenght. You surely drew some "definitive" conclusions after quite a short time if you didn't even know about that. So pathetic you are. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

You need help desperately and should seek professional counceling. You toss one lie after another and dont even know what you have or havent said! Sad! Truely Sad! "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BHia7.62361$[email hidden]... | I never said I beta tested GPL you moron. I did beta VROC. John O' Keefe | (who I've tested games with and for, going back almost four years) askedme

Quoted text (15 lines)

| to be part of the first small group to try it out. | | Maybe if you weren't so anxious to rip into me, you'd read postings more | clearly. | | David G Fisher | | "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:MAia7.62344$[email hidden]... | > You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for | > GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological | > lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! | > | > "David G Fisher" wrote: | > | Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose

which

Quoted text (17 lines)

| > | post to use to attack me. | > | | > | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you pretending | you | > | didn't, which is the same as LYING. | > | | > | David G Fisher | > | > | > | > --- | > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. | > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). | > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 | > | > |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

As I've said before Dave, I don't know why you bother with these guys and their very silly posts. Iain "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TIia7.62367$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> BTW didn't answer if you read my response to ymenard? Why did you back him > up when you already knew what my reply was to him. > > David G Fisher > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:MAia7.62344$[email hidden]... > > You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for > > GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological > > lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! > > > > "David G Fisher" wrote: > > | Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose

which

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > | post to use to attack me. > > | > > | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you pretending > you > > | didn't, which is the same as LYING. > > | > > | David G Fisher > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > > > > >

"Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:P%ga7.62104$[email hidden]... > Kasper, I never had F1RC but a friend does and I just had the > chance to race it on his system this week. I thought the feel of > F1RC was kiddy like! Almost "Arcade'ish" but I am *so* into > graphics that F1RC looked like one from a video arcade game > at one of our local malls to me.. Odd? Pity you are unable to make a proper assessment - you're missing out on a lot, but.... it's up to you obviously. Iain

Your not going to get away with your bullshit so easily. Show me where I ever said I beta tested GPL. If you can, I'll leave r.a.s. forever. Wouldn't that make you happy? Are you saying I never beta tested with and for John? That I never beta tested RC2000? You know Thom, if you keep throwing accusations out there, eventually some of them will be accepted as fact. They really will. Desperate people do those types of things though. Good luck. David G Fisher "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ibja7.62405$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (28 lines)

> You need help desperately and should seek professional > counceling. You toss one lie after another and dont even > know what you have or havent said! Sad! Truely Sad! > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:BHia7.62361$[email hidden]... > | I never said I beta tested GPL you moron. I did beta VROC. John O' Keefe > | (who I've tested games with and for, going back almost four years) asked > me > | to be part of the first small group to try it out. > | > | Maybe if you weren't so anxious to rip into me, you'd read postings more > | clearly. > | > | David G Fisher > | > | "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > | news:MAia7.62344$[email hidden]... > | > You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for > | > GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological > | > lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! > | > > | > "David G Fisher" wrote: > | > | Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose > which > | > | post to use to attack me. > | > | > | > | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you

pretending

Quoted text (22 lines)

> | you > | > | didn't, which is the same as LYING. > | > | > | > | David G Fisher > | > > | > > | > > | > --- > | > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > | > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > | > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > | > > | > > | > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

I guess I'm fascinated by the way the human mind can be so brilliant and so screwy. :-) David G Fisher "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:heja7.12518$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> As I've said before Dave, I don't know why you bother with these guys and > their very silly posts. > Iain > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TIia7.62367$[email hidden]... > > BTW didn't answer if you read my response to ymenard? Why did you back

him

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > up when you already knew what my reply was to him. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:MAia7.62344$[email hidden]... > > > You mean lying just like you allegedly being a 'beta tester' for > > > GPL & Vroc? What a load of shit! So quit your pathological > > > lying & get some help! It's old and you have no creditability! > > > > > > "David G Fisher" wrote: > > > | Do you ever read follow up answers, or do you just pick and choose > which > > > | post to use to attack me. > > > | > > > | I answered his stupid question. Did you read it? Or are you

pretending

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > you > > > | didn't, which is the same as LYING. > > > | > > > | David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > > > > > > > > > >

Yes it is.. [fwiw-not much] I find F1RS, in many aspects, better then F1RC & F1RS is quite old now! "Iain Mackenzie" wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

| Pity you are unable to make a proper assessment - you're missing out on a | lot, but.... it's up to you obviously. | Iain | "Thom j." wrote: | > Kasper, I never had F1RC but a friend does and I just had the | > chance to race it on his system this week. I thought the feel of | > F1RC was kiddy like! Almost "Arcade'ish" but I am *so* into | > graphics that F1RC looked like one from a video arcade game | > at one of our local malls to me.. Odd?

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

then just post proof or retract!! btw: extremely ill people go on about themselves in the "me" form. think about it! "David G Fisher"wrote: | You know Thom, if you keep throwing accusations out there, eventually some | of them will be accepted as fact. They really will. Desperate people do | those types of things though. Good luck. | | David G Fisher --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

but he does over&over in the "I" & "me" form!! its a hoot! :) talk about "screwy" minds.. <g> "Iain Mackenzie" wrote: | As I've said before Dave, I don't know why you bother with these guys and | their very silly posts. | Iain | --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Your the one making accusations. You post the damn proof. Guilty until proved innocent? I promise I'll leave if you can. Christmas in August for you. David G Fisher "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FAja7.62414$[email hidden]... > then just post proof or retract!! btw: extremely ill people > go on about themselves in the "me" form. think about it! > > "David G Fisher"wrote: > | You know Thom, if you keep throwing accusations out there, eventuallysome

Quoted text (13 lines)

> | of them will be accepted as fact. They really will. Desperate people do > | those types of things though. Good luck. > | > | David G Fisher > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

I liked F1RS at the time, but looking at it again now, hmmmm .... very worrying if you think it's somehow in any way better than F1RC. Iain "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1wja7.62411$[email hidden]... > Yes it is.. [fwiw-not much] I find F1RS, in many aspects, > better then F1RC & F1RS is quite old now! > > "Iain Mackenzie" wrote: > | Pity you are unable to make a proper assessment - you're missing out ona

Quoted text (19 lines)

> | lot, but.... it's up to you obviously. > | Iain > > > | "Thom j." wrote: > | > Kasper, I never had F1RC but a friend does and I just had the > | > chance to race it on his system this week. I thought the feel of > | > F1RC was kiddy like! Almost "Arcade'ish" but I am *so* into > | > graphics that F1RC looked like one from a video arcade game > | > at one of our local malls to me.. Odd? > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

thanks for the comments, very informative... i'll give the setups a try. it certainly explains the snap oversteer problem..... hopefully it'll make a profound difference to power delivery.. on standard setups, anything close to fully blocked diff is undriveable. i see from your setup suggestions that you're a probably late braker? this has been my problem with finding good GP3 setups (my best performances come with slight variations of the default setups)... most people seem to prefer early apex driving and their setups just don't work for me :( decent setups may make the game a better drive, however, i don't think it will make a bit of difference to the AI... it is pretty bad. perhaps the hype on the box is true and the AI does 'evolve'. thus far, i've found it woeful. the drivers seem to love that racing line and stick to it at all costs. it's pretty annoying to win a corner, only to be punted off by the following driver as he tries to get back on the racing line even though your tail may be in the way. does this aspect improve with time? or do i have to just accept it and learn to drive around this problem? "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4aa7.60606$[email hidden]... > Another guy from r.a.s. who trys a sim for a couple of days and then draws > definitive conclusions while comparing it to his favorite. Big surprise.In

Quoted text (10 lines)

> another post you say you've been driving GP3 for "ages", but F1RC gets a > couple of days. > > Whatever you are experiencing now is absolutely not what you will be > experiencing in two weeks or two months. Not with this sim or any other > quality sim. You can't possible have explored and mastered the control of > the cars in F1RC in a couple of days. What are your best times at > Silverstone, Monza, Imola, Austria, Melbourne, and Spa? Are you within a > second or two of the best times on the net? Are you pushing the cars to at > least 99% of their limit? Have you worked with the setups? I and others

can > slide the car when we want to, dance on the edge, and it's a lot of fun to > do so. Throttle and steering input is smooth and precise. What wheel doyou > have and what wheel and pedal settings do you use? Linear? Exponential?Dead

Quoted text (7 lines)

> zone? GP3 feels like the cars are on rails in comparison. I'm told by > someone who's opinions I respect that the GPxPatch patch makes a positive > difference in GP3, but haven't tried it yet. > > For the stock setups in F1RC, a good base to start with is to stiffen the > front springs and dampers and soften the rears, drop the ride height, move > the differential to center, make the front wings one or two points less

than > the rears, lower the gear ratios about 2 points each, set the rear antiroll > bar to about 50,000 and the front to about 95,000, and lower the > packers/bump stops 5 points each. > > Or, you could just download Ian Bell's setups from Blackhole Motorsports. > Ever heard of Ian? He made setups for GP3. Ever tried them? He knows howto > set up a car, and his setups for F1RC are excellent. Here are his comments > about F1RC from awhile back. You may soon see a bit of yourself in them. > ------------------------------------- > Hi all. > To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game or got > second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to saythat > I was wrong! > > The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and bluescreens, > it is close to perfect. > > I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable when > oversteering and it's awesome! > > Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and I jumpedin > too soon. > > In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor andthis

Quoted text (7 lines)

> ones growing like a baby. > > It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's this > area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thought I'd > say that) > You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handles like > the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about -

exploring > the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's whatGPL

Quoted text (7 lines)

> does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game. > > For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it > some time, it's bloody excellent. This SIM is very similar > to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding stepping > over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generally aren't > going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the

visual > change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in the suspension > movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's notthat. > Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit. The > screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until they are > hanging out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, the feedbackI

Quoted text (9 lines)

> take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL, > this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Also the > suspension arms don't move much. > > Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon and in > the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming I get > any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious. > > OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost

uncontrollable

Quoted text (12 lines)

> is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast > turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable > oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you touch > the left curbing. > In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors: > 1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band out of > the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear. > 2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (a recipe > for oversteer) > > Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better > handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do

have

Quoted text (24 lines)

> Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows > itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren. The > Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent. > > Sorry to go on. > > Ian Bell > GPLRank -16.8 > > > > > > "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:T%5a7.3049$[email hidden]... > > > > "01001110 01101111 01110010" <?@noemail.invalid> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC > > > *is* the most realistic F1 sim. > > > > he probably doesn't own a car... i like F1RC, but in no way could it be > > called superior to GP3 in terms of driving..... it's obvious that there

is > > something seriously wrong with the physics model as far as tyrebehaviour > > goes. slides aren't progressive, and brake/throttle application has no > > 'feel' to it. no, GP3 is far better in this aspect, the slightestchanges

Quoted text (12 lines)

> to > > setup are immediately obvious when driving.... though it's not GPL, it > comes > > closer than any other F1 game IMO. > > > > now i sit and wait patiently like everyone else for the patch. :\ > > > > KK > > > > > > >

Funnily enough, I've used this argument the other way round... amazing how things come full circle. Jan./ sorry, just too ironic to pass up. =--- "David G Fisher" wrote... > I guess I'm fascinated by the way the human mind can be > so brilliant and so screwy. :-) > > David G Fisher

please read what I write Iain, not what you assume I wrote: "[fwiw-not much] I find F1RS, in many aspects," thank you "Iain Mackenzie" wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

| I liked F1RS at the time, but looking at it again now, hmmmm .... very | worrying if you think it's somehow in any way better than F1RC. | Iain | | | "Thom j." wrote: | > Yes it is.. [fwiw-not much] I find F1RS, in many aspects, | > better then F1RC & F1RS is quite old now! | > | > "Iain Mackenzie" wrote: | > | Pity you are unable to make a proper assessment - you're missing out

on

Quoted text (22 lines)

| a | > | lot, but.... it's up to you obviously. | > | Iain | > | > | > | "Thom j." wrote: | > | > Kasper, I never had F1RC but a friend does and I just had the | > | > chance to race it on his system this week. I thought the feel of | > | > F1RC was kiddy like! Almost "Arcade'ish" but I am *so* into | > | > graphics that F1RC looked like one from a video arcade game | > | > at one of our local malls to me.. Odd? | > | > | > | > --- | > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. | > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). | > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 | > | > | |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > You know Thom, if you keep throwing accusations out there, eventually some > of them will be accepted as fact. They really will. Desperate people do > those types of things though. Good luck. Hey, you just lied not long ago implying that I couldn't drive. You never ever raced against me in your life. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote > As I've said before Dave, I don't know why you bother with these guys and > their very silly posts. Remember when dealing with people, that by definition, half of all people are below average intelligence. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Because I made a little joke about you crashing on a tricycle? I have always assumed that you are probably an excellent driver, but if you are that sensitive about it........... David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BHna7.25239$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > You know Thom, if you keep throwing accusations out there, eventuallysome

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > of them will be accepted as fact. They really will. Desperate people do > > those types of things though. Good luck. > > > Hey, you just lied not long ago implying that I couldn't drive. You never > ever raced against me in your life. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

I'd say I'm a late braker. Ian's setups fit my style perfectly with just a few tweaks. What wheel settings do you use? I have a Ferrari FF wheel, and I use linear for gas and brake, and exponential for steering. FF strength is set to about 50%. You need to adjust your steering lock until you find the right setting. As far as the AI, I (and the same five guys will soon criticize me for this) don't think they are too bad to race against at all. Especially the front of the field. I've had some thrilling races, most recently at Melbourne. With the AI in F1RC, you MUST be up to speed, and be able to brake when they do. I can pass them in corners (inside or outside) and under acceleration or while drafiting down a straight. It's not easy (but realistic), and you must choose the right time and place. You have to take into account (especially in high speed turns) that the wheel will get light when up close to another car. The main problem with the AI is, if a car spins out on the track, the following cars will sometimes run straight into them. You end up with a five or six car pileup instead of a one or two car (realistic) incident. This is more likely to happen at some tracks than others (Melbourne and Austria are excellent, France and Hockenheim aren't so good)The AI does seem to improve over time, but I can't prove how. David G Fisher "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Omla7.3376$[email hidden]... > thanks for the comments, very informative... i'll give the setups a try.it

Quoted text (14 lines)

> certainly explains the snap oversteer problem..... hopefully it'll make a > profound difference to power delivery.. on standard setups, anything close > to fully blocked diff is undriveable. i see from your setup suggestions > that you're a probably late braker? this has been my problem with finding > good GP3 setups (my best performances come with slight variations of the > default setups)... most people seem to prefer early apex driving and their > setups just don't work for me :( > > decent setups may make the game a better drive, however, i don't think it > will make a bit of difference to the AI... it is pretty bad. perhaps the > hype on the box is true and the AI does 'evolve'. thus far, i've found it > woeful. the drivers seem to love that racing line and stick to it at all > costs. it's pretty annoying to win a corner, only to be punted off by the > following driver as he tries to get back on the racing line even though

your > tail may be in the way. does this aspect improve with time? or do i haveto > just accept it and learn to drive around this problem? > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a4aa7.60606$[email hidden]... > > Another guy from r.a.s. who trys a sim for a couple of days and thendraws

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > definitive conclusions while comparing it to his favorite. Big surprise. > In > > another post you say you've been driving GP3 for "ages", but F1RC gets a > > couple of days. > > > > Whatever you are experiencing now is absolutely not what you will be > > experiencing in two weeks or two months. Not with this sim or any other > > quality sim. You can't possible have explored and mastered the control

of > > the cars in F1RC in a couple of days. What are your best times at > > Silverstone, Monza, Imola, Austria, Melbourne, and Spa? Are you within a > > second or two of the best times on the net? Are you pushing the cars toat > > least 99% of their limit? Have you worked with the setups? I and others > can > > slide the car when we want to, dance on the edge, and it's a lot of funto > > do so. Throttle and steering input is smooth and precise. What wheel do > you > > have and what wheel and pedal settings do you use? Linear? Exponential? > Dead > > zone? GP3 feels like the cars are on rails in comparison. I'm told by > > someone who's opinions I respect that the GPxPatch patch makes apositive > > difference in GP3, but haven't tried it yet. > > > > For the stock setups in F1RC, a good base to start with is to stiffenthe > > front springs and dampers and soften the rears, drop the ride height,move

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > the differential to center, make the front wings one or two points less > than > > the rears, lower the gear ratios about 2 points each, set the rear anti > roll > > bar to about 50,000 and the front to about 95,000, and lower the > > packers/bump stops 5 points each. > > > > Or, you could just download Ian Bell's setups from Blackhole

Motorsports. > > Ever heard of Ian? He made setups for GP3. Ever tried them? He knows how > to > > set up a car, and his setups for F1RC are excellent. Here are hiscomments > > about F1RC from awhile back. You may soon see a bit of yourself in them. > > ------------------------------------- > > Hi all. > > To anyone who was influenced by my earlier post regarding this game orgot

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > second thoughts about buying it based on my gripes, I would like to say > that > > I was wrong! > > > > The game gets better every minute. Aside from the crashes and blue > screens, > > it is close to perfect. > > > > I worked the setups to the point where I have a car that's catchable

when > > oversteering and it's awesome! > > > > Apologies to everyone I had the debate with, you were right, and Ijumped

Quoted text (8 lines)

> in > > too soon. > > > > In my defence, all the classic sims have that 'grow on you' factor and > this > > ones growing like a baby. > > > > It's the variations in handling that really sealed it for me and it's

this > > area that in my view lifts the game above GP3 as a sim. (Never thoughtI'd > > say that) > > You could compare GP3 to a Flight Sim 2000 where the Concorde handleslike

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > the Cessna, a bit of a cop out. This is what a sim is all about - > exploring > > the nuances of each car, learning it's foibles and strengths. It's what > GPL > > does and it adds almost infinte variety to the game. > > > > For those who tried F1RC and tossed it away early, I suggest you give it > > some time, it's bloody excellent. This SIM is very similar > > to GPL in the manner in which it feeds back information regarding

stepping > > over the edge. In GPL, if the tyres aren't screaming you generallyaren't > > going fast enough. So when the rear gives way you see it through the > visual > > change in the angle of attack of the tub to the road and in thesuspension > > movements. You had the tyre screaching before it gave way, so it's not > that. > > Now, in F1RC, the tyres don't screach until you have passed the limit.The > > screach could be a bit louder, and they seem not to squeel until theyare > > hanging out precariously and almost uncatchable. So like GPL, thefeedback > I > > take the cue from is the angle of the monocoque to the road. Unlike GPL, > > this happens in an instant and you must react much more quickly. Alsothe > > suspension arms don't move much. > > > > Changing the setups helped a lot, I'll be posting them to Jure soon andin > > the meantime I'll just post the Setups with my record laps (assuming Iget

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > any more ) so they will be necessarily a little precarious. > > > > OK, CRUX OF THE SOLUTION: The snap oversteer which is almost > uncontrollable > > is caused by some of the default setups riding the packers in the fast > > turns. As soonas the car rides them it snaps into almost uncontrollable > > oversteer. Very Realistic, a bit like turn 5 at Brazil in GP3 if you

touch > > the left curbing. > > In the slow stuff, the oversteer is caused by 2 factors: > > 1: As above, the gear ratios can be tweaked to move the power band outof > > the slow stuff, and/or you can change to another gear. > > 2: The stock setups have a very soft front end and a stiff rear (arecipe

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > for oversteer) > > > > Finally, just to reiterate, this SIM is amazing, the Mclaren has better > > handling in the fast stuff due to superior aerodynamics (Well, they do > have > > Newey in the team ) and the Ferrari has more mechanical grip which shows > > itself in the slow stuff. You can brake a little later in the Mclaren.

The

Quoted text (21 lines)

> > Ferrari needs a higher rideheight, etc etc, absolutely excellent. > > > > Sorry to go on. > > > > Ian Bell > > GPLRank -16.8 > > > > > > > > > > > > "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:T%5a7.3049$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "01001110 01101111 01110010" <?@noemail.invalid> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Oh oh, better hope DGF doesn't see your post. According to him F1RC > > > > *is* the most realistic F1 sim. > > > > > > he probably doesn't own a car... i like F1RC, but in no way could it

be > > > called superior to GP3 in terms of driving..... it's obvious thatthere

Quoted text (20 lines)

> is > > > something seriously wrong with the physics model as far as tyre > behaviour > > > goes. slides aren't progressive, and brake/throttle application has no > > > 'feel' to it. no, GP3 is far better in this aspect, the slightest > changes > > to > > > setup are immediately obvious when driving.... though it's not GPL, it > > comes > > > closer than any other F1 game IMO. > > > > > > now i sit and wait patiently like everyone else for the patch. :\ > > > > > > KK > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hxea7.841$[email hidden]... Well, they should at least be close to the AI's times in expert mode. Otherwise, your probably not really exploring the car's limits, and can't judge the physics and car behavior correctly. David G Fisher

Quoted text (11 lines)

> As someone who doesn't own GP3, what proportion of drivers *ever* get > within "a second or two of the best times on the net"? > > Just wondering 'cos my GPL times, after a good 18 months or more, > don't look like they'll ever be anywhere near that :-( > > And I /do/ do extensive setup development... > > Jonny > >

I did read what you wrote. You said that F1RS was better is some aspects, and I said that it was worrying that you found it in any way better. What 'aspects' are you referring to then? Iain "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fBma7.63183$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (46 lines)

> please read what I write Iain, not what you assume I wrote: > "[fwiw-not much] I find F1RS, in many aspects," thank you > > "Iain Mackenzie" wrote: > | I liked F1RS at the time, but looking at it again now, hmmmm .... very > | worrying if you think it's somehow in any way better than F1RC. > | Iain > | > | > | "Thom j." wrote: > | > Yes it is.. [fwiw-not much] I find F1RS, in many aspects, > | > better then F1RC & F1RS is quite old now! > | > > | > "Iain Mackenzie" wrote: > | > | Pity you are unable to make a proper assessment - you're missing out > on > | a > | > | lot, but.... it's up to you obviously. > | > | Iain > | > > | > > | > | "Thom j." wrote: > | > | > Kasper, I never had F1RC but a friend does and I just had the > | > | > chance to race it on his system this week. I thought the feel of > | > | > F1RC was kiddy like! Almost "Arcade'ish" but I am *so* into > | > | > graphics that F1RC looked like one from a video arcade game > | > | > at one of our local malls to me.. Odd? > | > > | > > | > > | > --- > | > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > | > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > | > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > | > > | > > | > | > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:28:45 +1000, "Kasper Kowalski" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>decent setups may make the game a better drive, however, i don't think it >will make a bit of difference to the AI... it is pretty bad. perhaps the >hype on the box is true and the AI does 'evolve'. thus far, i've found it >woeful. the drivers seem to love that racing line and stick to it at all >costs. it's pretty annoying to win a corner, only to be punted off by the >following driver as he tries to get back on the racing line even though your >tail may be in the way. does this aspect improve with time? or do i have to >just accept it and learn to drive around this problem?

I never raced it long enough to see if it got better because this aspect of the game disgusted me so much that I deleted the POS until a patch arrives - if it ever does.

David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gQoa7.63763$[email hidden]... > > "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:hxea7.841$[email hidden]... > > As someone who doesn't own GP3, what proportion of drivers *ever*get > > within "a second or two of the best times on the net"? > Well, they should at least be close to the AI's times in expertmode. > Otherwise, your probably not really exploring the car's limits, andcan't > judge the physics and car behavior correctly. So is that comparable to GP2 ito difficulty? I *eventually* won a season on that IIRC... Jonny

ymenard wrote: > Remember when dealing with people, that by definition, half of all people > are below average intelligence. Uh oh. <hears a door opening here. WIDE.> -- Fester

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> ymenard wrote: > > > Remember when dealing with people, that by definition, half of all people > > are below average intelligence. > > > Uh oh. <hears a door opening here. WIDE.>

hehe, actaully ymenard is wrong. Per definition half of all people are below the median intelligence. :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

David G Fisher wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > I'd say I'm a late braker. Ian's setups fit my style perfectly with just a > few tweaks. > > What wheel settings do you use? I have a Ferrari FF wheel, and I use linear > for gas and brake, and exponential for steering. FF strength is set to about > 50%. You need to adjust your steering lock until you find the right setting.

no wheel for me... i use a MS FF stick. yeah, i know, lame :) i'll get a wheel eventually. i've gotten used to the stick, i can run pretty quick with it.

Quoted text (9 lines)

> As far as the AI, I (and the same five guys will soon criticize me for this) > don't think they are too bad to race against at all. Especially the front of > the field. I've had some thrilling races, most recently at Melbourne. With > the AI in F1RC, you MUST be up to speed, and be able to brake when they do. > I can pass them in corners (inside or outside) and under acceleration or > while drafiting down a straight. It's not easy (but realistic), and you must > choose the right time and place. You have to take into account (especially > in high speed turns) that the wheel will get light when up close to another > car.

that's my main gripe with GP3... the car doesn't lose front-end grip when following closely in corners, and the effect of slip-streaming seems to extreme, certainly moreso than any F1 race i've ever watched. F1RC seems to require better timing than GP3 in this respect because you don't gain anywhere near as much speed by following. this is good :) > The main problem with the AI is, if a car spins out on the track, the > following cars will sometimes run straight into them. You end up with a five > or six car pileup instead of a one or two car (realistic) incident. This is > more likely to happen at some tracks than others (Melbourne and Austria are > excellent, France and Hockenheim aren't so good)The AI does seem to improve > over time, but I can't prove how. yes, i figured that would be a problem given the other drivers refuse to move from the racing line... i expect that will be covered in the patch/next version. oh well, in any case, ghost lapping is a blast. KK

In article <2Coa7.63701$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'd say I'm a late braker. Ian's setups fit my style perfectly with just a >few tweaks. > >What wheel settings do you use? I have a Ferrari FF wheel, and I use linear >for gas and brake, and exponential for steering. FF strength is set to about >50%. You need to adjust your steering lock until you find the right setting. Do you think that an FF wheel is necessary to be able to drive it better? I don't have one, and I don't think I need FF right now... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

`>"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote > hehe, actaully ymenard is wrong. Per definition half of all people are > below the median intelligence. :) blah ;-) (For yours it's true if you take per so different levels of intelligence, not per singular head). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Olav K. Malmin" wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes: > > > ymenard wrote: > > > > > Remember when dealing with people, that by definition, half of all people > > > are below average intelligence. > > > > > > Uh oh. <hears a door opening here. WIDE.> > > hehe, actaully ymenard is wrong. Per definition half of all people are > below the median intelligence. :)

Correct. The mean intelligence level would be much lower than that to make up for the rest of us. :-) -- Fester

I just bought my ff wheel about a month ago, so I was enjoying the sim for months without it. I've never felt the need to have ff in a game either. I do love the wheel though for it's construction and feel. I guess if I was told I was forbidden to use ff for any game for the next year, I wouldn't be too upset. It hasn't made me any faster. FF is nice, but not mandatory for me yet. David G Fisher "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <2Coa7.63701$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I'd say I'm a late braker. Ian's setups fit my style perfectly with justa > >few tweaks. > > > >What wheel settings do you use? I have a Ferrari FF wheel, and I uselinear > >for gas and brake, and exponential for steering. FF strength is set toabout > >50%. You need to adjust your steering lock until you find the rightsetting. > > Do you think that an FF wheel is necessary to be able to drive it better?I

Quoted text (9 lines)

> don't have one, and I don't think I need FF right now... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I always liked GP3, but compared to F1RC it definitely feels easier to me. If you won a season in GP2, you should be fine in any sim IMO. Maybe you should try the demo. You'll see a big difference in the way you have to approach Eau Rouge in F1RC. In the demo, it's set to Pro mode, which gives you 40% ABS and anti-slide help. Even so, it's more difficult than GP3. A 1:43 is a fast time. David G Fisher "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wcta7.2730$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gQoa7.63763$[email hidden]... > > > > "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:hxea7.841$[email hidden]... > > > As someone who doesn't own GP3, what proportion of drivers *ever* > get > > > within "a second or two of the best times on the net"? > > > Well, they should at least be close to the AI's times in expert > mode. > > Otherwise, your probably not really exploring the car's limits, and > can't > > judge the physics and car behavior correctly. > > So is that comparable to GP2 ito difficulty? I *eventually* won a > season on that IIRC... > > Jonny > >

David G Fisher wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > I just bought my ff wheel about a month ago, so I was enjoying the sim for > months without it. I've never felt the need to have ff in a game either. I > do love the wheel though for it's construction and feel. I guess if I was > told I was forbidden to use ff for any game for the next year, I wouldn't be > too upset. It hasn't made me any faster. FF is nice, but not mandatory for > me yet.

I take it this is your first FF wheel?

My brother had a ff wheel which I tried with sim after sim over the past few years. I always ended up going back to my T2 for whatever reason. David G Fisher "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I just bought my ff wheel about a month ago, so I was enjoying the simfor > > months without it. I've never felt the need to have ff in a game either.I > > do love the wheel though for it's construction and feel. I guess if Iwas > > told I was forbidden to use ff for any game for the next year, Iwouldn't be > > too upset. It hasn't made me any faster. FF is nice, but not mandatoryfor > > me yet. > > I take it this is your first FF wheel?

David G Fisher wrote: > > My brother had a ff wheel which I tried with sim after sim over the past few > years. I always ended up going back to my T2 for whatever reason. Oh yes, if I remember correctly the last 'reason' was your girlfriend smashing it over your head and breaking it. Which was the reason you couldn't report on FF in F1RC. ;) Gerry

T2?? wow... how many bungees have you gone through? Jan. =--- "David G Fisher" wrote... > My brother had a ff wheel which I tried with sim after > sim over the past few years. I always ended up going > back to my T2 for whatever reason. > > David G Fisher

nope, nope, I am not going to "say!" one word!! :) "Gerry Aitken" wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

| Oh yes, if I remember correctly the last 'reason' was your girlfriend | smashing it over your head and breaking it. Which was the reason you | couldn't report on FF in F1RC. ;) | | Gerry | David G Fisher wrote: | > | > My brother had a ff wheel which I tried with sim after sim over the past

few | > years. I always ended up going back to my T2 for whatever reason. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

The poor thing didn't even have a bungee..........at the very end. It really was an excellent wheel for me. Worked very well for a long time. David G Fisher "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> T2?? wow... how many bungees have you gone through? > > Jan. > =--- > "David G Fisher" wrote... > > My brother had a ff wheel which I tried with sim after > > sim over the past few years. I always ended up going > > back to my T2 for whatever reason. > > > > David G Fisher > >

She didn't really do that. Just a joke. The wheel had broken down though. She probably did something else that day which felt the same. David G Fisher "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > My brother had a ff wheel which I tried with sim after sim over the pastfew

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > years. I always ended up going back to my T2 for whatever reason. > > Oh yes, if I remember correctly the last 'reason' was your girlfriend > smashing it over your head and breaking it. Which was the reason you > couldn't report on FF in F1RC. ;) > > Gerry

In article <x%Ca7.66665$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >I just bought my ff wheel about a month ago, so I was enjoying the sim for >months without it. I've never felt the need to have ff in a game either. I >do love the wheel though for it's construction and feel. I guess if I was >told I was forbidden to use ff for any game for the next year, I wouldn't be >too upset. It hasn't made me any faster. FF is nice, but not mandatory for >me yet. Ok, thanks. I've seen people say that they've become faster immediately with FF. I'm not sure if that's because of the specific wheel, or the specific sim. Maybe some people just do better than others with the tactile info that FF provides...? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'm not sure. Wheel? Sim? Don't know. The most important feedback from the sim that I need is what the rear wheels are doing. I get that from the angle of the cockpit to the road, and sound. The ff does let you know when the car pushes, but I can see that as well. One thing it does is it keeps you from over correcting in a turn due to the load up of the wheel (obviously a bungee in a non-ff wheel simulates this). It may be that in a particular sim, like GPL, it helps more than others. Because the cars in GPL are much looser than a modern F1 car (drift and slide more), so maybe the extra feedback from a ff wheel makes the difference. I like the ff in F1RC, but the tracks are all very smooth. Load up and grip is very good. Curbs are nice, and the feel of putting a wheel onto the grass or dirt is good too. If you go off the track onto another road surface, the pavement feels rougher. Hopefully they will add engine vibration and more to track surface feel (texture and bumps) in the patch or in F1RC2. I was racing RC2000 yesterday, and I was reminded that I did love the engine vibration and road surface changes/vibrations in that sim. The wheel going loose on ice and off of jumps is great too. I think I drove better too. Maybe ff appeals to me more in an off road sim than a road sim. Rally Trophy (from the video I saw today) could be a real blast with good ff. I bought the Ferrari wheel because I heard that even when the ff is turned off, it feels really nice. Turned out that was true, so if you are thinking of getting a ff wheel, the Ferrari might be the one. David G Fisher "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <x%Ca7.66665$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I just bought my ff wheel about a month ago, so I was enjoying the simfor > >months without it. I've never felt the need to have ff in a game either.I > >do love the wheel though for it's construction and feel. I guess if I was > >told I was forbidden to use ff for any game for the next year, I wouldn'tbe > >too upset. It hasn't made me any faster. FF is nice, but not mandatoryfor > >me yet. > > Ok, thanks. I've seen people say that they've become faster immediatelywith > FF. I'm not sure if that's because of the specific wheel, or the specificsim. > Maybe some people just do better than others with the tactile info thatFF

Quoted text (9 lines)

> provides...? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <2Coa7.63701$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I'd say I'm a late braker. Ian's setups fit my style perfectly with justa > >few tweaks. > > > >What wheel settings do you use? I have a Ferrari FF wheel, and I uselinear > >for gas and brake, and exponential for steering. FF strength is set toabout > >50%. You need to adjust your steering lock until you find the rightsetting. > > Do you think that an FF wheel is necessary to be able to drive it better?I > don't have one, and I don't think I need FF right now... i think it comes down to the game... the FF in F1RC (at least on my machine) is pretty weak... on GP3 however it's very strong, steering is actually painful because the stick is so stiff. it works well though.. GP3 is very easy to get understeer when applying just that little bit too much steering lock... the FF helps you find the sweet spot and makes a huge difference to getting consistently low lap times. KK

"David G Fisher" wrote > She didn't really do that. Just a joke. Now your credibility has been blown, David. How can we believe a word you say? Whatever next, Papyrus are not Gods? Blasphemy!

"David G Fisher" wrote > Because I made a little joke about you crashing on a tricycle? Bloody hell! That was a joke as well? Stop the collection for Fran�ois lads...

"David G Fisher" wrote ***y hell! That was a joke as well? Stop the collection for Fran?ois lads...

On 03 Aug 2001 22:21:30 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) mangled uncounted electrons thus:

Quoted text (14 lines)

>In article <x%Ca7.66665$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>I just bought my ff wheel about a month ago, so I was enjoying the sim for >>months without it. I've never felt the need to have ff in a game either. I >>do love the wheel though for it's construction and feel. I guess if I was >>told I was forbidden to use ff for any game for the next year, I wouldn't be >>too upset. It hasn't made me any faster. FF is nice, but not mandatory for >>me yet. > >Ok, thanks. I've seen people say that they've become faster immediately with >FF. I'm not sure if that's because of the specific wheel, or the specific sim. > Maybe some people just do better than others with the tactile info that FF >provides...?

FWIW, FF definitely improved my times on everything I've driven. I think it comes down to your last point (tactile feel)... the Logitech Formula Force that I use is pretty good in that regard. Martin D. Pay Still can't hack those GPL cars, though... :(:(:(