Just in case WSC is stillborn...

it looks like we will eventually have at least one good alternative: "Codemasters Announces TOCA Race Driver" see this article: http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/newsitem.php?newsid=884

They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... Todd Walker GPLRank: +72.27 (Held back by the @#$% Ring) twalker at jam dot rr dot com http://twalker.d2g.com/gpl On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:12:11 GMT, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: >it looks like we will eventually have at least one good alternative: > >"Codemasters Announces TOCA Race Driver" > >see this article: http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/newsitem.php?newsid=884 >

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 04:20:22 GMT, [email hidden] (Todd Walker) wrote: >They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means >it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case >based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... WSC is being made for the PS2 also.

> WSC is being made for the PS2 also. Yes, that's true. It's being developed by RazorWorks for the PS2. The West brothers have no involvement with the PS2 version and it's already more arcadish then you'd want. The PC and PS2 versions can't be compared. Different developers, different ideas about game making. -- Kenneth Verburg Editor-in-chief High Gear http://www.simracingnews.com

[email hidden] (Todd Walker) writes: > They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means > it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case > based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... In a time when accusations of prejudice flies in this group, you use 3 screenshots to determine that a racer will be arcade ? :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (Todd Walker) writes: > > > They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. Thatmeans > > it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems thecase > > based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... > > In a time when accusations of prejudice flies in this group, you use3 > screenshots to determine that a racer will be arcade ? :) No, he used the announcement of a parallel PS2 version to determine that it will be arcade... (not that this counters accusations of prejudice!) Jonny

Well said Olav.....it galls me to hear the crap spoken sometimes with little or no fact behind it... We see plenty of eye candy and i for one dont judge any game/sim on it's looks alone. So i will just be patient,await a demo,as Codies always seem to provide at least that,judge the demo(which does NOT mean i can judge the fianl game/sim)...and then purchase the final product. If its great i am happy. If it's not it can gather dust with all the others in the 3rd draw down.... Morgan "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Todd Walker) writes: > > > They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means > > it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case > > based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... > > In a time when accusations of prejudice flies in this group, you use 3 > screenshots to determine that a racer will be arcade ? :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

"Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means > it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case > based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... > > Todd Walker > GPLRank: +72.27 (Held back by the @#$% Ring) > twalker at jam dot rr dot com > http://twalker.d2g.com/gpl >

On the other hand, Lemans was far more sim on the Dreamcast and PS2 than on the PC. There were different developers for pc and console versions. This new "TOCA" game is fairly interesting in gameplay. It's a bit of a role playing game where you're responsible for rising through the ranks with a specific driver. I think it will be more along the lines of the GT series, but in the racing world.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:44:21 -0400, "Andrew S" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means >> it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case >> based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... > >On the other hand, Lemans was far more sim on the Dreamcast and PS2 than on >the PC. There were different developers for pc and console versions.

Don't they use largely the same code base? It seems like a waste of time to do designs for basically the same thing... Although the graphics in WSC are done using DX8 and for the PS2 I don't know what. It still seems to me you'd share source code wherever you can, making the physics at least very similar (depending though on CPU speed). Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

Between two different development teams? Are you serious ;)? -Gregor Ruud van Gaal wrote: > > It still seems to me you'd share source code wherever you can, making > the physics at least very similar (depending though on CPU speed). >

"Olav K. Malmin" > In a time when accusations of prejudice flies in this group, you use 3 > screenshots to determine that a racer will be arcade ? :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin Isn't that two more shots than necessary to determine such profound issues??? ;) dave henrie

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> Don't they use largely the same code base? It seems like a waste of > time to do designs for basically the same thing... Although the > graphics in WSC are done using DX8 and for the PS2 I don't know what. > It still seems to me you'd share source code wherever you can, making > the physics at least very similar (depending though on CPU speed). > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25

If you take into consideration that only the Dead Dreamcast uses an OS similar to windows, then sharing code rarely works. The advantage of the upcomming Xbox will be it's similarity to PC's. You might see more tie-ins with regard to PC and Xbox's than the current machines.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> "Olav K. Malmin" > In a time when accusations of prejudice flies in this > group, you use 3 > > screenshots to determine that a racer will be arcade ? :) > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > Isn't that two more shots than necessary to determine such profound > issues??? ;)

LOL! Definately. So with 3 it's dead certain. Aw what the heck. It's no GPL I said it :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

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| | It's no GPL | | I said it :) | | -- | Olav K. Malmin | remove .spam when replying

Dear o dear :) Ash

Wha hey! Foxy chicks in a driving sim!! ;-)

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:08:05 GMT, "Kenneth Verburg" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Yes, that's true. It's being developed by RazorWorks for the PS2. The West >brothers have no involvement with the PS2 version and it's already more >arcadish then you'd want. The PC and PS2 versions can't be compared. >Different developers, different ideas about game making. I knew that. Razorworks did AvH and CvH, which are very good games so maybe the PS2 version won't be too arcadish. But it's a moot point for me because I only buy PC games.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:25:33 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote: >Between two different development teams? Are you serious ;)? Hm, perhaps the teams should first go out for a drink together, and then start programming. :) Ah well, that means 2 WSC's to choose from. If it's good enough, I might buy the DVD player, who knows... ;) Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:58:16 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> Don't they use largely the same code base? It seems like a waste of >> time to do designs for basically the same thing... Although the >> graphics in WSC are done using DX8 and for the PS2 I don't know what. >> It still seems to me you'd share source code wherever you can, making >> the physics at least very similar (depending though on CPU speed). >> >> >> Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > If you take into consideration that only the Dead Dreamcast uses an OS >similar to windows, then sharing code rarely works.

Still, the physics code is highly independent of whatever machine you're on I think. Ah well, if they want to do it the hard way, let them. :) Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

Don't know about that, but I thought I had heard that the first TOCA game was a pretty good sim. If it's being done by the same people, I don't see why the emphasis would necessarily change. "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> They are making it for the PS2 as well as the PC. Bad sign. That means > it will probably be much more arcadish than sim. This seems the case > based on the screenshots as well. WSC this is not... > > Todd Walker > GPLRank: +72.27 (Held back by the @#$% Ring) > twalker at jam dot rr dot com > http://twalker.d2g.com/gpl > > > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:12:11 GMT, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >it looks like we will eventually have at least one good alternative: > > > >"Codemasters Announces TOCA Race Driver" > > > >see this article:

http://www.sportplanet.com/hg/newsitem.php?newsid=884 > > >

> No. It was a TOTAL re-write for the DC.. Believe me, if Chris West tells me he doesn't like the PS2 version (like he did), then it's not that much of a sim and that certainly doesn't agree with his idea of what the game should be about ;) -- Kenneth Verburg Editor-in-chief High Gear http://www.simracingnews.com

Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R9n87.23242$[email hidden]... > Don't know about that, but I thought I had heard that the first TOCA > game was a pretty good sim. If it's being done by the same people,I > don't see why the emphasis would necessarily change. Hmm... my memory of the optimum cornering technique for a slow hairpin: Brake too late Drop down to third, though you're convinced it should be second or first Turn in and floor it (in your FWD touring car) Miraculously thus avoid huge understeer, and make the corner! Bear in mind I didn't spend much time playing it (on a friend's machine, in any case). Jonny

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws Yre87.2264$[email hidden]...

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> > Don't they use largely the same code base? It seems like a waste of > > time to do designs for basically the same thing... Although the > > graphics in WSC are done using DX8 and for the PS2 I don't know what. > > It still seems to me you'd share source code wherever you can, making > > the physics at least very similar (depending though on CPU speed). > > > > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > If you take into consideration that only the Dead Dreamcast uses an OS > similar to windows, then sharing code rarely works. The advantage of the > upcomming Xbox will be it's similarity to PC's. You might see more

tie-ins > with regard to PC and Xbox's than the current machines. > The dreamcast used windows ce in about 5% of its games.

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%mv87.35477$SK6.4153132@news6-

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> Brake too late > Drop down to third, though you're convinced it should be second or > first > Turn in and floor it (in your FWD touring car) > Miraculously thus avoid huge understeer, and make the corner! > > Bear in mind I didn't spend much time playing it (on a friend's > machine, in any case). > > Jonny > >

Aye, I remember an article around the time TOCA originally came out. They did have a reasonably accurate weight balance, but they moved the CoG nearer the centre of the cars to stop the understeer, because that wouldn't be *fun*. Why they didn't make it an optional improvement is beyond me, though. cheers John

First of all..... There's far too many foreigners in this newsgroup. I think we can solve this problem by splitting this newsgroup into two groups..... One....that can not speak English. Another....that can not write English. I for one, am not sure which group I should be in? ******************************** Now.....as stupid as that premise is.......its light-years more intelligent than the premise: "Just in case WSC is stillborn..." My God Hacksaw! You should have your mouth washed out with soap. Dah yo mama know you talk like that? Word up! "Toca Race Driver" is not even remotely a replacement for WSC. I doubt it could hack it as a replacement for "Starsky and Hutch Racing"......even! It might possibly replace "Hee Haw".....but that's a big "maybe." Foreigners....they are such silly people. Next thing you know....they'll start slammin' NASCAR! TP (-^-)

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oYO87.11062$[email hidden]... > First of all..... > > There's far too many foreigners in this newsgroup. I think we cansolve > this problem by splitting this newsgroup into two groups..... > > One....that can not speak English. Another....that can not writeEnglish. > > I for one, am not sure which group I should be in? > > ******************************** > > Now.....as stupid as that premise is.......its light-years moreintelligent > than the premise: "Just in case WSC is stillborn..." My God Hacksaw!You > should have your mouth washed out with soap. Dah yo mama know youtalk like > that? > LOL! Foreigners compared to what? I was born and raised in the U.S.A., where are you from? Perhaps you need an English lesson? The term "stillborn" refers to a child who is born dead. It's a perfectly legitimate English word. With all the rumors going around here about the fate of WSC, it seemed like an appropriate term to me. > Word up! "Toca Race Driver" is not even remotely a replacement forWSC. I > doubt it could hack it as a replacement for "Starsky and Hutch > Racing"......even! It might possibly replace "Hee Haw".....but that'sa big > "maybe." So you have already played the *new* game that Codemasters just announced? This thread is not about the old one. When I read the announcement, it looked to me like they were pretty serious about making a good sim. But if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. ;o)

Yes. TP

"Yes" to what? Hey, come to think of it, weren't you the guy spreading all of the rumours about the fate of WSC? Hmm. I think you are secretly hoping that someone WILL do a Starsky & Hutch game. Is your closet full of tight pants and polyester shirts? "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rhX87.11428$[email hidden]... > Yes. > > TP > >

[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) writes:

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> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:25:33 +0200, Gregor Veble > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Between two different development teams? Are you serious ;)? > > Hm, perhaps the teams should first go out for a drink together, and > then start programming. :) > Ah well, that means 2 WSC's to choose from. If it's good enough, I > might buy the DVD player, who knows... ;)

what? a Nuon to play Tempest 3000 on? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

"Sjoerd de Roest" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > Yre87.2264$[email hidden]... > > > Don't they use largely the same code base? It seems like a waste of > > > time to do designs for basically the same thing... Although the > > > graphics in WSC are done using DX8 and for the PS2 I don't know what. > > > It still seems to me you'd share source code wherever you can, making > > > the physics at least very similar (depending though on CPU speed). > > > > > > > > > Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 > > If you take into consideration that only the Dead Dreamcast uses an OS > > similar to windows, then sharing code rarely works. The advantage of the > > upcomming Xbox will be it's similarity to PC's. You might see more > tie-ins > > with regard to PC and Xbox's than the current machines. > > > > The dreamcast used windows ce in about 5% of its games.

what did it use in the other 95%? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 FJ�SE!

"Kenneth Verburg" <[email hidden]> writes: > > No. It was a TOTAL re-write for the DC.. > > Believe me, if Chris West tells me he doesn't like the PS2 version (like he > did), then it's not that much of a sim why not? because he has low standards? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

Someone IS doing a Starsky & Hutch game -- and it IS Empire. We don't make this stuff up . . . -- JB On Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:16:05 GMT, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Yes" to what? Hey, come to think of it, weren't you the guy spreading >all of the rumours about the fate of WSC? Hmm. I think you are >secretly hoping that someone WILL do a Starsky & Hutch game. Is your >closet full of tight pants and polyester shirts? > > >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:rhX87.11428$[email hidden]... >> Yes. >> >> TP >> >> >

On Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:19:16 GMT, "Kenneth Verburg" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> No. It was a TOTAL re-write for the DC.. > >Believe me, if Chris West tells me he doesn't like the PS2 version (like he >did), then it's not that much of a sim and that certainly doesn't agree with >his idea of what the game should be about ;) What a waste of resources. And what a waste of release time. :( Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25 Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/ Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

Thanks John. Now I can go move all that stuff from the back of my closet to the front again. Whew....thought I'd have to be "back in the closet" all over again. ...lol... TP PS: There's still too many foreigners in this newsgroup.