'ring time getting there...

Okay, I've had GPL on my system for about a year now and I know that isn't a long time compared to the local hardcores in here but I finally got around to working on a Nurburgring time that I won't be ashamed of. Actually, until a week ago I hadn't successfully made an entire circuit of the 'ring without aborting my attempt after a third or forth off. Well, I decided I needed to at least make an entire lap and get a time in my "Best Laps" slot for the 'ring, so... I worked at it for a while and I can now picture what corner is coming next and have some idea of where on the course I am when I move the slider on the replay screen and hit "play". My best lap to date... promise not to laugh... is a 9:29.09 (that includes two half-spins that were recovered fairly quickly so I think at my present level of 'ring proficiency I should be able to pull off a 9:15.xx. Right now the sub 9 minute lap is like the sub 1:30 at Monza was for me... it seems very far away right now but that sub 1:30 at Monza seemed to happen all of a sudden out of the blue one night when I wasn't really trying that hard so I hope for a similar progression at the 'ring. I drive the Ferrari almost exclusively just because it seems to match my driving style the best and I like the view a lot out of the Ferrari... seems more open than the Lotus. I love the sound of the Ferrari as well. I have read somewhere that the Coventry is a good car to learn a course in.... any truth to that? I might give the Cooper a go if I thought I could better that time to sub 9 minute range. Is that possible in the Cooper? TIA, Robin

In article <XhGb7.33907$[email hidden]>, "Robin" <[email hidden]> writes: >I drive the Ferrari almost exclusively just because it seems to match my >driving style the best and I like the view a lot out of the Ferrari... seems >more open than the Lotus. I love the sound of the Ferrari as well. I have >read somewhere that the Coventry is a good car to learn a course in.... any >truth to that? I might give the Cooper a go if I thought I could better that >time to sub 9 minute range. Is that possible in the Cooper? Yeah - I've seen Cooper laps as fast as 8:15, I think. It's not the arrow, it's the Indian...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I can feel your pain, same story here for a long time. Down to an 8:57 now - Woohoo! Couple of things for learning it from another learner - concentrate on the three fast twisty sections, you'll make the most time there if you can keep it going. Schwedenkruez, Fuchsrohre/Ardenauer Forst and Kesselchen made a huge difference, I was too tentative as I was learning. And download Ringtrainer and choose your starting point. The best way to get the hang of the furthest parts without a 5min drive to get to them. Good luck Rafe Mc On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:06:15 GMT, "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Okay, I've had GPL on my system for about a year now and I know that isn't a >long time compared to the local hardcores in here but I finally got around >to working on a Nurburgring time that I won't be ashamed of. Actually, until >a week ago I hadn't successfully made an entire circuit of the 'ring without >aborting my attempt after a third or forth off. >Well, I decided I needed to at least make an entire lap and get a time in my >"Best Laps" slot for the 'ring, so... I worked at it for a while and I can >now picture what corner is coming next and have some idea of where on the >course I am when I move the slider on the replay screen and hit "play". >My best lap to date... promise not to laugh... is a 9:29.09 (that includes >two half-spins that were recovered fairly quickly so I think at my present >level of 'ring proficiency I should be able to pull off a 9:15.xx. >Right now the sub 9 minute lap is like the sub 1:30 at Monza was for me... >it seems very far away right now but that sub 1:30 at Monza seemed to happen >all of a sudden out of the blue one night when I wasn't really trying that >hard so I hope for a similar progression at the 'ring. >I drive the Ferrari almost exclusively just because it seems to match my >driving style the best and I like the view a lot out of the Ferrari... seems >more open than the Lotus. I love the sound of the Ferrari as well. I have >read somewhere that the Coventry is a good car to learn a course in.... any >truth to that? I might give the Cooper a go if I thought I could better that >time to sub 9 minute range. Is that possible in the Cooper? >TIA, >Robin >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <XhGb7.33907$[email hidden]>, "Robin" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I drive the Ferrari almost exclusively just because it seems to match my > >driving style the best and I like the view a lot out of the Ferrari...seems > >more open than the Lotus. I love the sound of the Ferrari as well. I have > >read somewhere that the Coventry is a good car to learn a course in....any > >truth to that? I might give the Cooper a go if I thought I could betterthat

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> >time to sub 9 minute range. Is that possible in the Cooper? > > Yeah - I've seen Cooper laps as fast as 8:15, I think. > It's not the arrow, it's the Indian...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. Hee hee, I should have specified "human" abilities in the Cooper. Regards, Robin

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I can feel your pain, same story here for a long time. Down to an 8:57 > now - Woohoo! > > Couple of things for learning it from another learner - concentrate on > the three fast twisty sections, you'll make the most time there if you > can keep it going. Schwedenkruez, Fuchsrohre/Ardenauer Forst and > Kesselchen made a huge difference, I was too tentative as I was > learning. > > And download Ringtrainer and choose your starting point. The best way > to get the hang of the furthest parts without a 5min drive to get to > them. > > Good luck > > Rafe Mc >

I have dl'd the Ringtrainer but I have mostly used it just to start at the last point before start/finish so I get a lap time with out doing the warmup tour... maybe I should work on those fast twisties as I know I'm tentative to say the least. I think the last four minutes before the long straight are spent in 3rd gear in the Ferrari just 'cause I don't want to blow a complete lap. I'll try your suggestions, thanks. Regards, Robin

Let me just tell you that I am at 9:06.14 at the Ring in Alison's Ferrari. Now that I have told you that, you can take from this what you want. I have to say the single most important thing for the Ring is to actually drive the track for a few hours at a time. Heck run a few races there! I have run every F1 and F3 car there, and the only thing that makes me faster, is to be easier on the throttle (don't mash it to the floor after every turn, ease into it) and just knowing what is next. The Brabham helped me get to a 9:24.36, and then I was able to get other cars that low (not all). I am starting a Love/Hate relationship with the Brab. I am sure many will say I am not quallified to give this advice as I have not broke 9 minutes at the Ring, but next time I get a few hours to kill . . . SLG GLP Monster Rank F1: 909.21 GPL Monster Rank F3: 3048.91 (Hey, now stop laughing!) "Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I can feel your pain, same story here for a long time. Down to an 8:57 >> now - Woohoo! >> >> Couple of things for learning it from another learner - concentrate on >> the three fast twisty sections, you'll make the most time there if you >> can keep it going. Schwedenkruez, Fuchsrohre/Ardenauer Forst and >> Kesselchen made a huge difference, I was too tentative as I was >> learning. >> >> And download Ringtrainer and choose your starting point. The best way >> to get the hang of the furthest parts without a 5min drive to get to >> them. >> >> Good luck >> >> Rafe Mc >> > >I have dl'd the Ringtrainer but I have mostly used it just to start at the >last point before start/finish so I get a lap time with out doing the warmup >tour... maybe I should work on those fast twisties as I know I'm tentative >to say the least. I think the last four minutes before the long straight are >spent in 3rd gear in the Ferrari just 'cause I don't want to blow a complete >lap. >I'll try your suggestions, thanks. >Regards, >Robin > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

The real key to the Ring is realising you don't need to carry a whole lot more speed through each individual turn to shave off a massive chunk of time. I.e. get a rythm going, attack when you can, use prudence when you must. Sub-9 minutes should be within everyone's grasp. As for the Brabham, I can go along with you in as far as I have a hate/hate relationship with the twitchy SOB. I've been driving it as part of working towards an F2 MonsterRank and I can honestly say: even if it allows for an advantage in F2 racing, anyone prepared to live with handling like that is welcome to it, IMO. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Steve Garrotto" wrote...

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> Let me just tell you that I am at 9:06.14 at the Ring > in Alison's Ferrari. Now that I have told you that, > you can take from this what you want. > I have to say the single most important thing for the > Ring is to actually drive the track for a few hours at > a time. Heck run a few races there! I have run every F1 > and F3 car there, and the only thing that makes me faster, > is to be easier on the throttle (don't mash it to the > floor after every turn, ease into it) and just knowing > what is next. The Brabham helped me get to a 9:24.36, and > then I was able to get other cars that low (not all). I am > starting a Love/Hate relationship with the Brab. I am sure > many will say I am not quallified to give this advice as I > have not broke 9 minutes at the Ring, but next time I get > a few hours to kill . . . > > SLG > GLP Monster Rank F1: 909.21 > GPL Monster Rank F3: 3048.91 > (Hey, now stop laughing!)

In article <QnLb7.24807$[email hidden]>, "Robin" <[email hidden]> writes: >Hee hee, I should have specified "human" abilities in the Cooper. >Regards, >Robin > Ah, in that case... Yes, the Cooper is capable of sub - 9 minute times. Heck, even I've gotten down to about 8:45 or so...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <QnLb7.24807$[email hidden]>, "Robin" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Hee hee, I should have specified "human" abilities in the Cooper. > >Regards, > >Robin > > > > Ah, in that case... > Yes, the Cooper is capable of sub - 9 minute times. Heck, even I've

gotten

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> down to about 8:45 or so...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... >

Ah Eldred... you give me hope! It seems that in the course of the last year reading your posts on the trials and tribulations of shaving off lap time I have a weird parallel with you. If you have done sub 9 min. at the 'ring then I believe I can as well. This 'ring time thing is what has been keeping me from the mysterious world of GPL Rank... to be honest I haven't even looked into it yet fearing I will do nothing but embarrass my countrymen (Canada). I'll have to start working on some other times as well now and get sucked into the never ending spiral of practicing hotlaps to better my GPL Rank. Oh God... what have I done! ;) Regards, Robin

"Steve Garrotto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Let me just tell you that I am at 9:06.14 at the Ring in Alison's > Ferrari. Now that I have told you that, you can take from this what > you want. > I have to say the single most important thing for the Ring is to > actually drive the track for a few hours at a time. Heck run a few > races there! I have run every F1 and F3 car there, and the only thing > that makes me faster, is to be easier on the throttle (don't mash it > to the floor after every turn, ease into it) and just knowing what is > next. The Brabham helped me get to a 9:24.36, and then I was able to > get other cars that low (not all). I am starting a Love/Hate > relationship with the Brab. I am sure many will say I am not > quallified to give this advice as I have not broke 9 minutes at the > Ring, but next time I get a few hours to kill . . . > > SLG > GLP Monster Rank F1: 909.21 > GPL Monster Rank F3: 3048.91 > (Hey, now stop laughing!) > >

I think the biggest thing for me is exactly what you just stated in the middle of your post... "just knowing what is next."... I am still tentative when I know there is a corner coming (always just over a slight rise that will catch you out if you try to carry too much speed) and I end up braking too early to save a lap. I think the biggest thing for me is that the damn track is so long that I hate throwing away a lap trying to push into a breaking point and then spinning. You may have a point about spending a few hours with the track as well but with the usual family obligations (small children seem to demand a fair amount of attention) I think I would have to ship the family away for a weekend without me along to get any extended time with this sim. Regards, Robin

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Steve Garrotto) writes: >SLG >GLP Monster Rank F1: 909.21 >GPL Monster Rank F3: 3048.91 >(Hey, now stop laughing!) Hey, at least you HAVE a Monster F3 rank. I haven't done one yet... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well get hopping Eldred.. Dammit!! :)~ "EldredP" wrote: | | Hey, at least you HAVE a Monster F3 rank. I haven't done one yet... | | Eldred (Steve Garrotto) writes: | | >SLG | >GLP Monster Rank F1: 909.21 | >GPL Monster Rank F3: 3048.91 | >(Hey, now stop laughing!) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

You really should try FD, it makes learning the ring fun, as you don't have nearly so many dumb wrecks from having too much power available. Also the laptimes at your present skill level will be about the same or maybe even better, as you'll have more confidence when flooring it. Aliens can do 8:05 in FD, so there is plenty of headroom too. rms [email hidden]

You know what bums me out about my Monster Rank of 909.21, is all the F2 guys that are WAY faster than that! I just have to live with the fact that I suck. I still am tempted to start the League for those that Suck (LfttS). SLG [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Steve >Garrotto) writes: > >>SLG >>GLP Monster Rank F1: 909.21 >>GPL Monster Rank F3: 3048.91 >>(Hey, now stop laughing!) > >Hey, at least you HAVE a Monster F3 rank. I haven't done one yet... > >Eldred >-- >Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

thanks Steve, my ONE moment of glory...being ahead of you at the Ring is now over.....my 15 minutes are up... you made my day....ratfink...(oops keyboard error,....really.....) :) dave henrie "Steve Garrotto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Let me just tell you that I am at 9:06.14 at the Ring in Alison's > Ferrari. Now

> >Hee hee, I should have specified "human" abilities in the Cooper. > >Regards, > >Robin > Ah, in that case... > Yes, the Cooper is capable of sub - 9 minute times. Heck, even I'vegotten > down to about 8:45 or so...<g> > > Eldred I'm nowhere near alien (still about six seconds off Eldred's Rank, though only three off his Monster Rank!) and I've had the Cooper down to 8:35 (my best is the Ferrari at 8:28, since my Monster effort). I recently found a lot of time after I realised I'd been running cars too stiff at the 'Ring - softer springs (and fairly soft bars) made them a sight more forgiving, so they now come back when I get them sideways. Reading other posts though, learning the track is still key. I can close my eyes (if I'm having trouble getting to sleep!) and visualise a lap, start to finish - which is sad, I know ;-) Happy racing! Jonny starting to think he might be approaching Ringmeister status ;-)

In article <QnLb7.24808$[email hidden]>, >I have dl'd the Ringtrainer but I have mostly used it just to start at the >last point before start/finish so I get a lap time with out doing the warmup >tour... who needs a time? Non of your first 100 laps will get you a prize, anyway :) And for checking your improvement just count the shift-Rs you need - at least that's the way I did it ;) Sub 9 in a cooper? can be done, yep. Since there are many slow turns, you probably wont miss the Ferrari power.. In fact, I did a 8:23 in the Cooper when my pb with the lotus was at 8:16. (done with Alison Hines Cooper setup) For me it is all about knowing where to start braking, how fast I can go into a turn and when I can get back on the gas .. Once you get this memorized, it is easy to work on the details. Make sure to get a replay of a fast guy and check out what speeds are possible - dont try to match these speeds, just use them as a guideline... If you are 10 km/h slower at almost every turn (that's great, would give you an 8:30 time!!), and then you find a turn where you are 30 km/h slower - then you know what to do, right? I found some corners where I completly underestimated the possible speeds :) Calis

"Herbert Pohlai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9kr96v$2g8$[email hidden]... > In article <QnLb7.24808$[email hidden]>, > > >I have dl'd the Ringtrainer but I have mostly used it just to start atthe > >last point before start/finish so I get a lap time with out doing thewarmup > >tour... > > who needs a time? Non of your first 100 laps will get you a prize, anyway:) > And for checking your improvement just count the shift-Rs you need - atleast

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> that's the way I did it ;) > > Sub 9 in a cooper? can be done, yep. Since there are many slow turns, you > probably wont miss the Ferrari power.. > In fact, I did a 8:23 in the Cooper when my pb with the lotus was at 8:16. > (done with Alison Hines Cooper setup) > > For me it is all about knowing where to start braking, how fast I can go > into a turn and when I can get back on the gas .. > Once you get this memorized, it is easy to work on the details. > > Make sure to get a replay of a fast guy and check out what speeds > are possible - dont try to match these speeds, just use them as a > guideline... If you are 10 km/h slower at almost every turn (that's great, > would give you an 8:30 time!!), and then you find a turn where you > are 30 km/h slower - then you know what to do, right? > > I found some corners where I completly underestimated the possible speeds

:) > > Calis Yeah, you're probably right about me being a little too hung up on the time and to be honest... I really haven't had to Shift-R yet, which means I am being too tentative I suppose. I did dl' a couple of hotlap replays from other people but instead of being completely objective in watching them and using any info I could glean to better my times I found myself sitting there wondering how in the hell they did it! I know, bad attitude... I'll have another look and see if I can find some obvious spots to work on. I still don't know all the official names of the different sections of the course but I have real problems with the section that is downhill twisty with the hedges to the left and the immediate uphill leg after the hedges where the back end of the car wants to swap around so bad it feels like I got hit in the tail by a freight train. I know I am losing BIG time through there. I have tried the Cooper for a couple of laps but I have to admit that I have become so accustomed to the Ferrari's sound and shift points that I think I'll have to re-learn how to drive these cars. It's almost automatic when my hand reaches for the shifter at points in the track and the Cooper (with Alison's setup of course) seems to go through the gears faster... much shorter gearing I guess to compesate for either less power or a heavier car? Not sure... and not that important, really. I do know that I'm going to have to reach some Zen-like state if I want to succeed at the 'ring... at least that's how it seems right now... I'll let you all know if I have a breakthrough time. Believe me... you'll have a hard time missing my post. I'll be telling people who don't even know what GPL stands for! Really, they do exist!!! Regards, Robin

>I did dl' a couple of hotlap replays from >other people but instead of being completely objective in watching them and >using any info I could glean to better my times I found myself sitting there >wondering how in the hell they did it! If you really want to be awestruck, try dl'ing Wolfies and Greger's WR laps at the Nurburgring. Then merge the 2 together and watch them race each other. Now that is awe inspiring! How can 2 people be so close and on the limit for an 8min lap? Rafe Mc

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >I did dl' a couple of hotlap replays from > >other people but instead of being completely objective in watching themand > >using any info I could glean to better my times I found myself sittingthere

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> >wondering how in the hell they did it! > > If you really want to be awestruck, try dl'ing Wolfies and Greger's WR > laps at the Nurburgring. Then merge the 2 together and watch them race > each other. Now that is awe inspiring! How can 2 people be so close > and on the limit for an 8min lap? > > Rafe Mc >

Merge? GPL newbie question of the month for me, but... how do I merge replays? Regards, Robin

In article <fxuc7.12320$e%[email hidden]>, "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'm nowhere near alien (still about six seconds off Eldred's Rank, >though only three off his Monster Rank!) and I've had the Cooper down >to 8:35 (my best is the Ferrari at 8:28, since my Monster effort). My BRM and Honda times are dragging down my MonsterRank... :( I can't drive that !@#$ piece of BRM... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Robin" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet news:CWzc7.41104$[email hidden]...

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> "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >I did dl' a couple of hotlap replays from > > >other people but instead of being completely objective in watching them > and > > >using any info I could glean to better my times I found myself sitting > there > > >wondering how in the hell they did it! > > > > If you really want to be awestruck, try dl'ing Wolfies and Greger's WR > > laps at the Nurburgring. Then merge the 2 together and watch them race > > each other. Now that is awe inspiring! How can 2 people be so close > > and on the limit for an 8min lap? > > > > Rafe Mc > > > > Merge? GPL newbie question of the month for me, but... how do I merge > replays? > Regards, > Robin >

With GPL Replay Analyser. Martin Granberg announced version 4.7 here today. A "must have" for GPL. Btw, I have a merged replay at the ring with my pb and Eldred's, and this looks like close racing too, but I seriously doubt it would make anybody awestruck! Watching Greger's actually make me carsick, and I have never got that in a real car, although I know some terrible drivers! \�l GPLrank+11,82 "Prognosis Negative"

In absolute terms, yes, however, relatively speaking, your Honda times are better than your Cooper and Eagle times. Ergo, I hold it would be easier to claw back time by concentrating on these cars than on the Honda. Do a back to back with me to see what I mean. Lotus, Honda and Brabham are your "stronger" cars, followed by the BRM. Ferrari, Eagle and Cooper are your weaker marques in relative terms, IMO. An obvious shortcoming on GPLRank is not being able to compare two drivers, both of which are not me, but from my own research into this I think more or less the same goes or most of drivers in my MonsterRank brackett as compared to you. So, my advice: lay off the Honda for a while and do something about that 8m53s Ring time in the Eagle. I just recently hit upon a very sweet Ring setup for the Eagle, which I'd be willing to swap for your Honda Kyalami setup (can't get the damn thing geared properly!!). <g> As for the BRM, I think it's very sweet to drive once you've got it set up right. It's just soo damn slow impatience leads to overdriving and mistakes and frustration.... Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > My BRM and Honda times are dragging down my MonsterRank... :( > I can't drive that !@#$ piece of BRM...

"�ke Larsson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DjDc7.9925$[email hidden]...

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> > "Robin" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet > news:CWzc7.41104$[email hidden]... > > Merge? GPL newbie question of the month for me, but... how do I merge > > replays? > > Regards, > > Robin > > > With GPL Replay Analyser. Martin Granberg announced version 4.7 here > today. > A "must have" for GPL. > Btw, I have a merged replay at the ring with my pb and Eldred's, and this > looks like close racing too, but I seriously doubt it would make anybody > awestruck! > Watching Greger's actually make me carsick, and I have never got that in > a real car, although I know some terrible drivers! > \�l > GPLrank+11,82 > "Prognosis Negative" > >

Wow, I have had GPLRA for a while but didn't realize this feature existed. I must admit I haven't used it for much more than comparing my lap to other fast laps I've dl'd to see where I am losing major time. Is this a new feature in the recently released version or could I have been doing this for a while now... feeling sheepish. Regards, Robin

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>In absolute terms, yes, however, relatively speaking, your Honda times are >better than your Cooper and Eagle times. Ergo, I hold it would be easier to >claw back time by concentrating on these cars than on the Honda. > >Do a back to back with me to see what I mean. Lotus, Honda and Brabham are >your "stronger" cars, followed by the BRM. Ferrari, Eagle and Cooper are >your weaker marques in relative terms, IMO. >

Interesting. The cars you call my 'weaker' cars are the ones I have the most seat time in. I started in the Eagle, and used it for the longest time. Switched to the Ferrari almost exclusively when Alison shared her setups. And, I've been in a Cooper league for 3 seasons...<g>

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>An obvious shortcoming on GPLRank is not being able to compare two drivers, >both of which are not me, but from my own research into this I think more or >less the same goes or most of drivers in my MonsterRank brackett as compared >to you. > >So, my advice: lay off the Honda for a while and do something about that >8m53s Ring time in the Eagle. I just recently hit upon a very sweet Ring >setup for the Eagle, which I'd be willing to swap for your Honda Kyalami >setup (can't get the damn thing geared properly!!). <g>

Ok, I'll see which Honda setup I use. I don't drive it enough to remember... > >As for the BRM, I think it's very sweet to drive once you've got it set up >right. It's just soo damn slow impatience leads to overdriving and mistakes >and frustration.... Sweet? If you say so... :-) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > > <snip> > Interesting. The cars you call my 'weaker' cars are the > ones I have the most seat time in. I started in the Eagle, > and used it for the longest time. Switched to the Ferrari > almost exclusively when Alison shared her setups. And, I've > been in a Cooper league for 3 seasons...<g> But... but... that doesn't make sense! The cars one's most familiar with should have, again: relatively speaking, the best chassis ranks. I too have used Ferrari and Cooper almost exclusively in competition, hence they are my *best* chassis. I had hardly any experience in the Lotus, Brabham or Honda and it shows. For you it seems the other way 'round... perhaps you've become too "defensive" when driving cars who's quirks you know best? Honestly, from my sample of MonsterRank "owners" in the 275-350 brackett your Brabham and Honda times stacked up rather well, whereas most were quite a bit faster than you in the Eagle and Cooper. Try it for yourself. I couldn't possibly have picked every single dud Honda driver in this range by accident, surely? ;-) > > <snip> > Ok, I'll see which Honda setup I use. I don't drive > it enough to remember... Thanks... I'm trying to forget how badly I drove it. <g> > > As for the BRM, I think it's very sweet to drive once > > you've got it set up right. It's just soo damn slow > > impatience leads to overdriving and mistakes and > > frustration.... > > Sweet? If you say so... :-) Must admit I had a little trouble finding a sweet spot when I did the MonsterRank (using 45/xx setups, like I do now... Jens thinks I'm an alien for doing so ;-)) similar to my erstwhile 85/45 setups and ended up not entirely happy. Let me get back to you on that (after I finish my F2 MR...). Jan. =---

Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Must admit I had a little trouble finding a sweet spot when I didthe > MonsterRank (using 45/xx setups, like I do now... Jens thinks I'm analien > for doing so ;-)) similar to my erstwhile 85/45 setups and ended upnot > entirely happy. Let me get back to you on that (after I finish my F2MR...). How do you guys find time to do MRs, out of curiosity? I've just done mine in F1 - but I'm a graduate waiting to start my job, and I spent an *entire* *week* running the car/track combos I hadn't already done... Admittedly it helped my overall 'Rank lots - but I must have spent a working week on it. Jonny

In article <y%6d7.17649$[email hidden]>, "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> writes: >How do you guys find time to do MRs, out of curiosity? I've just done >mine in F1 - but I'm a graduate waiting to start my job, and I spent >an *entire* *week* running the car/track combos I hadn't already >done... I've had the game since it's been out(almost 3 years). When the MonsterRank came out, I'd already done all the tracks in everything but the Honda and BRM. I just took a weekend and ran a few laps with both cars just to get times. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Honestly, from my sample of MonsterRank "owners" in the 275-350 brackett >your Brabham and Honda times stacked up rather well, whereas most were quite >a bit faster than you in the Eagle and Cooper. Try it for yourself. I >couldn't possibly have picked every single dud Honda driver in this range by >accident, surely? ;-) It could be that they're just better drivers who driver the Eagle and Cooper all the time, and don't have many laps with the other cars. If they put in the time, they'd probably be WAY higher than me in the MonsterRank. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Jonny Hodgson" wrote...

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> <snip> > How do you guys find time to do MRs, out of curiosity? > I've just done mine in F1 - but I'm a graduate waiting > to start my job, and I spent an *entire* *week* running > the car/track combos I hadn't already done... > > Admittedly it helped my overall 'Rank lots - but I must > have spent a working week on it.

As far as I'm concerned the answer is pretty simple: I don't spend nearly as much time on it and spread it out more. If I had the mental stamina to run to my usual standard for 8-9hours on end, I could easily do a MonsterRank from scratch in that timeframe. As I do work full-time on a self-employed basis, do spend time with friends and family and have other interests outside simracing, I tend to spread it out more as time allows. Few tracks in a certain chassis at a time. In view of the longlevity of GPL, I assume time to be on my side. Basically, when I get bored or stuck doing something else, I just clamp my wheel to my desk and clear my mind for about an hour. Jan. =---

"EldredP" wrote... > It could be that they're just better drivers who driver the > Eagle and Cooper all the time, and don't have many laps with > the other cars. If they put in the time, they'd probably be > WAY higher than me in the MonsterRank. It's true some of them (even those ranked lower than you) have one or two really low ranks and therefore can afford to fluff the other cars somewhat. And it's true they could have been higher up had they applied themselves more. The point is: they didn't and they're not. Regardless, MonsterRank is ranked according to the total for all the chassis and all the tracks. Therefore it's valid to place even someone who's -100 for the Lotus and +450 in total for the other chassis in your "ability brackett" as the yardstick is his total of +350. It's also valid to draw conclusions based on averages on datasets including such extremes as long as standard deviation is considered. Also, logic would have it that the cars you've driven the most *should*, relatively speaking (i.e. compared to an average), also be those with the "best" chassis ranks. Time to get some hard data on this, rather than my gut feeling. Americans love stats, right? -And you're American, so..... <g> Here's what I did: I made an Excel file listing the Chassis Ranks for all drivers within about 1 minute of you. As some drivers had apparently submitted better times without updating their MonsterRank, I extended the range to 70 seconds on the plus side, so as to not bias it too heavily (and even that included a guy who'd recently found some 12 seconds). Now, it's important to remember you're more or less smack in the middle of this population, i.e. the numbers will show which of your chassis ranks are above and which are below "average". LOTUS EAGLE FERRARI HONDA BRABHAM COOPER BRM Eldred: 19.67 57.94 25.62 59.30 49.50 55.51 99.05 Average: 21.11 40.41 34.97 73.15 49.70 56.29 82.56 Standard Deviation: 18.22 14.36 16.30 15.99 15.17 11.60 14.79 (on population) Ok, so I was wrong... you're no weaker than average in the Cooper, no better than average in the Brabham and whereas I thought your BRM chassis rank was pretty good, your appreciation was more on target. However, no matter how illogical it may seem to you, the Honda *is* your best chassis. You're just within "average minus st.dev", so you're not exceptionally good (*) at it, but certainly way above average for this population. Meaning it would take an almost superhuman effort on your part to improve your MonsterRank through lowering your Honda chassis rank. On the other hand someone of average ability within the population used for this statistic (i.e. you, you're smack in the middle, remember?), there's 34secs waiting to be picked up in the Eagle and the BRM. If I were to choose one over the other, I'd go for the intrinsically faster chassis, wouldn't you? ;-) Ok, I'm now going to cane myself for being sad enough to work this out and then I'm gonna apply this analysys to myself!! <g> Jan. =--- (*) Rem.: unfortunately, being outside "average plus st.dev" conversely does mean you're exceptionally bad at the Eagle and the BRM (at least statistic- ally <g>).

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Ok, so I was wrong... you're no weaker than average in the Cooper, no better >than average in the Brabham and whereas I thought your BRM chassis rank was >pretty good, your appreciation was more on target. Hmm...I don't know if that's a good thing or not<g>

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> >However, no matter how illogical it may seem to you, the Honda *is* your >best chassis. You're just within "average minus st.dev", so you're not >exceptionally good (*) at it, but certainly way above average for this >population. Meaning it would take an almost superhuman effort on your part >to improve your MonsterRank through lowering your Honda chassis rank. On the >other hand someone of average ability within the population used for this >statistic (i.e. you, you're smack in the middle, remember?), there's 34secs >waiting to be picked up in the Eagle and the BRM. If I were to choose one >over the other, I'd go for the intrinsically faster chassis, wouldn't you? >;-) > >Ok, I'm now going to cane myself for being sad enough to work this out and >then I'm gonna apply this analysys to myself!! <g> >

Oh MY...too many numbers! AUGH! :-)

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>Jan. >=--- >(*) Rem.: unfortunately, being outside "average plus st.dev" conversely does >mean > you're exceptionally bad at the Eagle and the BRM (at least >statistic- > ally <g>).

Well, since I don't really understand all the statistics-speak, I'll take your word for it... Guess I need to dust off the Eagle again... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote... > > I thought your BRM chassis rank was pretty good, > > your appreciation was more on target. > > Hmm...I don't know if that's a good thing or not<g> It's a good thing to know what one's weaknesses are. Not a pleasant thing, but a good thing. > > <snip> > Oh MY...too many numbers! AUGH! :-) Well, if I had to do it by hand, I'd think twice too, but copying the numbers off GplRank and have Excel calculate the averages and stuff only took about 10 minutes. This sort of number crunching is what computers do best. In fact it's what they were originally designed for!! > > <snip> > Well, since I don't really understand all the statistics-speak, > I'll take your word for it... A quick search didn't reveal a good web-based explanation and I'm not sure I can really make it clear for you, but here goes. Standard deviation is the average deviation of the values in the dataset to the average of the dataset. This has two important implications: 1) the majority of values in the set are between "the average minus the standard deviation" and "the average plus the standard deviation" and, therefore values outside this range are exceptional. 2) if the population is large enough (which, to be honest, it isn't in this case) we can be fairly certain any new value added to the set will be within this range. Example: suppose Randy Cassidy completed his MonsterRank and it came out at, say, +357. Based on the data I collected we can then be fairly certain his Honda chassis rank would be between 57.16 and 89.14 (73.15-15.99 and 73.15+15.99). If not, his Honda rank is exceptional for drivers having a MonsterRank between +306 and +426. > Guess I need to dust off the Eagle again... Indeed. I need to drive the Lotus more... turns out I'm exceptionally bad at it. ;-(( Jan. =---