(OT) Lauda - "F1 is boring"

In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually start to switch off. He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of all these girlie driver aids. Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. Any thoughts?

I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without messing up your own air flow. I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels. John "Jonesy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers willeventually > start to switch off. > > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changesevery > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrappingof > all these girlie driver aids. > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > Any thoughts?

Amen to that! Let the racing decide the winner, not pit stops and pit stop strategy. I'd also like to see some rule changes that would return the driver/car ratio more toward driver skill. I have not a shred of quantitative evidence to back this up, but it seems that the car is about 90% of the equation now -- I'd like to see it about 50/50. John Fryatt wrote: > I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue...

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually > start to switch off. > > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of > all these girlie driver aids. > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > Any thoughts?

Lauda is absolutely right. Not that the FIA and Bernie will take any notice of him. When you see reports of the high-level meetings that go on, most of the discussion is how to make even more money, not how to improve the racing! - Michael

MP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually > > start to switch off. > > > > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of > > all these girlie driver aids. > > > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > > > Any thoughts? > > Lauda is absolutely right. Not that the FIA and Bernie will take any > notice of him. When you see reports of the high-level meetings that go > on, most of the discussion is how to make even more money, not how to > improve the racing!

I couldn't agree more! Gerry

In article <9kou8k$psg$[email hidden]>, "John Fryatt" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. > >Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to >overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without >messing up your own air flow. >I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes >away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop >strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels. >

But without pitstops, if they don't change the aero package, whoever wins the first corner and doesn't break will win the race... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

So basically you guys want a champcar...........

i think the safety issue is the problem - ayrton senna dies on a kink in a straight that can be taken flat out. a freak accident, but obviously a very dangerous corner so lets put 2 chicanes in there. after all, 22 cars approaching a 2-gear left on a narrow track right after the start wont be dangerous at all, will it? its a bit like the govt and speed cameras and things. over 50% of road deaths are caused by people being stupid - pedestrians crossing on blind corners or drivers changing the radio station whilst driving through town. only about 4-5% are caused by excessive speed. shall we educate everyone and reduce deaths dramatically? nah, lets just get rich by putting speed cameras on long straights with 100% visibility. don't get me wrong - a 20mph speed limit is excellent outside a school, but 70 on a motorway? if its 3am and you want to give your car a bit of a run, who are you gonna harm (except yourself if a tyre explodes). why do police try and stop you at these early hours? because they now get the profits from stopping speeders. in europe, govts are elected because of their pro-driving stances - over here, they do what they like. we bring the country to a halt over fuel tax, and get a 2p reduction. in gibraltar, fuel is 55p a litre. drivers are persecuted in effect, which makes it worse for people like us - who actually enjoy driving (well i assume you do al lactually drive when your not sat at a computer). i think the petitions should be going to the govt so stop putting gatsos and chicanes and speed bumps everywhere. is it just me, or is squeezing two lanes of traffic through a tight chicane MORE dangerous than letting them pass normally 5mph faster? any thoughts?

<yawn> David G Fisher "Jonesy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually > start to switch off. > > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of > all these girlie driver aids. > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > Any thoughts?

Gee TRUSRS85, no CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? :) "TRUSRS85" wrote: | So basically you guys want a champcar........... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

><yawn> I think that's the point everyone's been trying to make, Dave :-) -- Cheers! Graeme Nash

Jonesy <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]... > In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually > start to switch off. I guess people keep watching F1 because it's F1. I must admit for myself that I hardly miss an F1-race, but if any other race that is broadcasted is as boring as F1, I immediately zap to Cartoon Network.

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> > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of > all these girlie driver aids. > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > Any thoughts?

I think he's totally right. Maybe F1 should 'borrow' the aerodynanics-packet from CART or go back to the flat-bottom rules in the early 1980's. And any circuit should have a straight that is long enough for decent slip-streaming. Unfortunally, the opposite ios happening; one of the last circuits with such long straights, Hockenheim, will be destroyed soon.. One thing Niki forgets: it should be easier to start a team in F1. We haven't had a full 26-car grid since 1995 I guess and I think that races would be more exciting if there was some more battle to get qualified and for the lower places. grtngs, hgrm

Nick G <[email hidden]> wrote on 07 Aug 2001: <snip> > don't get me wrong - a 20mph speed limit is excellent outside a > school, but 70 on a motorway? if its 3am and you want to give your > car a bit of a run, who are you gonna harm (except yourself if a > tyre explodes).<snip> ...which of course would require the police, the fire brigade, ambulances, the NHS, possibly the Highways Agency (if you break something), and various other publicly-funded services. The whinging from people (especially motoring journos) who go on and on about not having Autobahns in this country is ridiculous - 70mph is not slow. Just because *you* can drive safely at 100 doesn't mean everyone else can... and you have to drive defensively, wherever you are. -- David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. Earn (not very much) money writing reviews at http://uk.ciao.com

I doubt that someone who couldn't drive safely at 100MPH could drive safely at 70. ie. if someone pulled out in front of them they would still just lock the brakes and slide into the nearest piece of roadside furniture, bringing out the same need for Fire, Ambulance, NHS and Highways Agency services ;) By the way, all these services now claim against your insurance policy if you have a need to call them out or you damage their property. I agree with the original poster that the way to prevent accidents is by improving the standard of driver education, not by placing GATSO speed cameras at *so called accident blackspots*, though I've seen them placed at locations that have never in my recollection had any accidents. Improved road design and lighting would also help reduce the number of accidents a lot. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers> "David Buttery" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Nick G <[email hidden]> wrote on 07 Aug 2001: > > <snip> > > don't get me wrong - a 20mph speed limit is excellent outside a > > school, but 70 on a motorway? if its 3am and you want to give your > > car a bit of a run, who are you gonna harm (except yourself if a > > tyre explodes). > <snip> > > ...which of course would require the police, the fire brigade, > ambulances, the NHS, possibly the Highways Agency (if you break > something), and various other publicly-funded services. > > The whinging from people (especially motoring journos) who go on and on > about not having Autobahns in this country is ridiculous - 70mph is not > slow. Just because *you* can drive safely at 100 doesn't mean everyone > else can... and you have to drive defensively, wherever you are. > > -- > David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) > "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, > really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. > Earn (not very much) money writing reviews at http://uk.ciao.com

I agree with both your suggestions - no wings, no pit stops - and I also wish F1 would go back to slicks, a wider track if that's beneficial, etc. More mechanical grip, less aerodynamic grip maybe = more chances for overtaking??? Probably this would end up with slower cornering speeds (less aero loading) and higher straightaway speeds (less aero drag), making the braking zone longer and more critical. Just my 0.05 Cdn ...Klinn "John Fryatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9kou8k$psg$[email hidden]...

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> I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. > > Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to > overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without > messing up your own air flow. > I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes > away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop > strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels. > > John

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:27:43 +0200, "Han Monsees" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >One thing Niki forgets: it should be easier to start a team in F1. We >haven't had a full 26-car grid since 1995 I guess and I think that races >would be more exciting if there was some more battle to get qualified and >for the lower places. > >grtngs, >hgrm >

You can't start a new team in F1 now. The number of teams is limited to 12, if you want in, the only way is to buy an existing team. This, of course, increases the value of current teams enormously. Peter

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:09:58 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I agree with the original poster that the way to prevent accidents is by >improving the standard of driver education, Oh yea, as if those ignorant twats who do things like talk on cellphones while driving, change lanes without signalling, tail-gate etc. are going to even bother with driver education. It will be in one ear and out the other.

Ian P <[email hidden]> wrote on 07 Aug 2001: <snip> > I agree with the original poster that the way to prevent accidents > is by improving the standard of driver education<snip> Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibility of parole... -- David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. Earn (not very much) money writing reviews at http://uk.ciao.com

2nd that JensSchumi On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:35:08 +0100, "John Fryatt" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. ><snip> --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.nbci.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -13 Monsters of GPL: sub 200

Peter Holt <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >One thing Niki forgets: it should be easier to start a team in F1.We > >haven't had a full 26-car grid since 1995 I guess and I think thatraces > >would be more exciting if there was some more battle to getqualified and > >for the lower places. > You can't start a new team in F1 now. The number of teams islimited > to 12, if you want in, the only way is to buy an existing team.This, > of course, increases the value of current teams enormously. So which teams are only running one car? That should make for a grid of 24, not 22... Jonny

Now that *IS* a deterrent ;)

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| | Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibility of | parole... | | -- | David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79) | "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, | really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. | Earn (not very much) money writing reviews at http://uk.ciao.com

Peter Holt <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:27:43 +0200, "Han Monsees" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >One thing Niki forgets: it should be easier to start a team in F1. We > >haven't had a full 26-car grid since 1995 I guess and I think that races > >would be more exciting if there was some more battle to get qualified and > >for the lower places. > > > >grtngs, > >hgrm > > > You can't start a new team in F1 now. The number of teams is limited > to 12, if you want in, the only way is to buy an existing team. This, > of course, increases the value of current teams enormously.

I know. it's just another Ecclestonian thing to generate more money. It's clear to my that F1 has nothing to do with sports, it's just business. grtngs, hgrm > > Peter

> I know. it's just another Ecclestonian thing to generate more money. It's > clear to my that F1 has nothing to do with sports, it's just business. Show me a professional sport that can't be described, albeit cynically, as "just business".

If THAT doesn't work, nothing will !! ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers> "David Buttery"wrote > Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibility of > parole...

In article <9krhi0$k7q$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>If THAT doesn't work, nothing will !! ;) > >-- > >Ian P ><email invalid due to spammers> > > >"David Buttery"wrote >> Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibility of >> parole... >

Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

20 years or so ago the late great Giles Villeneuve said he would like F1 cars to have no wings, 800hp and wide slick tyres. Road wise most accidents are caused by crap driving not speed. A recent report found that 2/3 of accidents on the M25 are caused by lack of attention (taking on the mobile,chaning the radion staion etc). The driving test is far too easy it should at least be advanced level and personally I think yuo should only be alowed to drive on the road if you can go under 9 mins at the Ring, that'd reduce the number of idiots on the road! -- Some Call Me Tim 8'32 in a Coventry

typical case - the nearest gatso to me is in a spot which is quite open, but a few years ago a twat in a lorry pulled out and totalled a motorbike + rider. so obviously 1 accident in 10 years + constitutes an accident blackspot, and reminding the lorry driver that he needs to LOOK when pulling out of a concealed entrance would not have avoided the accident in any way. by the way, the speed of the zone here is 40mph - would the motorcyclist have survived even with the speed camera? i think not.

Something the Russians try to pass off as a car. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "EldredP" wrote...

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> <snip> > Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > year to allow other teams to "catch up" Seems to me the longer they leave a rules package alone, the closer the cars get. Remember 1997? Williams and Ferrari were the class of the field but McLaren, Jordan and Benneton were not at all far behind. And Damon Hill almost won in an Arrows. -Scott Johnson "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go to watch their school play basketball every Saturday and regard that as their week's exercise." - John F. Kennedy, 1962

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? > > Eldred http://freespace.virginnet.co.uk/down.loadz/marwood.exe A movie in a "visualmail" app. didn't do any harm (ie not a virus!), and shows you how awful a Lada is. from the site: http://members.aol.com/rallyinfo/videos9998.htm cheers John

"Some Call Me Tim" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> 20 years or so ago the late great Giles Villeneuve said he would like F1 > cars to have no wings, 800hp and wide slick tyres. > > Road wise most accidents are caused by crap driving not speed. A recent > report found that 2/3 of accidents on the M25 are caused by lack of > attention (taking on the mobile,chaning the radion staion etc). > The driving test is far too easy it should at least be advanced level and > personally I think yuo should only be alowed to drive on the road if you can > go under 9 mins at the Ring, that'd reduce the number of idiots on the road!

You are contradicting yourself. What does time around the ring got to do with people doing other stuff in the car than driving it ? But you do have a point though. Some of the worst drivers out there think they are good just because they can step on it on a straight piece of road. I usually catch up once we get into the turning bits. And it is very common for a road in Norway to be narrower than Route 1 from LA to SF. :) Olav

I could probably get under 9 minutes at the Ring...but I'd have to drive like an IDIOT to do it....:) dave(wait...I already do that)henrie "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Some Call Me Tim" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > The driving test is far too easy it should at least be advanced leveland > > personally I think yuo should only be alowed to drive on the road if youcan > > go under 9 mins at the Ring, that'd reduce the number of idiots on theroad! >

Nonsense Dave, Most cars in GPL can run sub-9 minutes without really pushing (the BRM needs to be kept "on the boil" though). Just last night I went 8m35s in the Eagle while keeping well within the limits (even had a bit of a moment at Caroussel because I was going too slowly and it turned in more than I expected). If you post a replay lap + setup somewhere, I could possibly point you in the right direction (it's worked before...). Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Dave Henrie" wrote... > I could probably get under 9 minutes at the Ring... > but I'd have to drive like an IDIOT to do it....:) > dave(wait...I already do that)henrie > <snip>

Saw one of this idiots on the highway yesterday. I almost dropped my beer. JensSchumi On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:55:27 -0400, 0x4E0x6F0x73 <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:09:58 +0100, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>I agree with the original poster that the way to prevent accidents is by >>improving the standard of driver education, > >Oh yea, as if those ignorant twats who do things like talk on >cellphones while driving, change lanes without signalling, tail-gate >etc. are going to even bother with driver education. It will be in one >ear and out the other.

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://members.nbci.com/JensSchu/ GPLRank: -13 Monsters of GPL: sub 200

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >>> Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibility of >>> parole... > >Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? Think Yugo but it's, er, not as good. --Morton Correct email: telson @ ameritech.net

Damn straight, I think there is an ultimate "solution" for a certain rule package, the longer the rules are left alone, the closer everyone will reach it. If they are changed, the big budget teams drop the gap to the "ultimate" the quickest, and we have another one-sided solution. I think the rules should have been left alone in '97. Even though it would do what I stated above, the rules really do need changing now. They just plain suck. Rafe Mc On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:36:13 GMT, [email hidden] (Top Sirloin) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... > >> He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic >> advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a >> slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing >> tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every >> year to allow other teams to "catch up" > >Seems to me the longer they leave a rules package alone, the closer the cars >get. Remember 1997? Williams and Ferrari were the class of the field but >McLaren, Jordan and Benneton were not at all far behind. > >And Damon Hill almost won in an Arrows. > > >-Scott Johnson > "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than > to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go > to watch their school play basketball every Saturday > and regard that as their week's exercise." > - John F. Kennedy, 1962

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:37:10 GMT, [email hidden] (JS) wrote: >Saw one of this idiots on the highway yesterday. >I almost dropped my beer. > >JensSchumi LOL!

We all want a return to slick tyres, but has anyone put a consideration into WIDENING the tyres? Ala the late 70's. Two major points to consider. First, the wider tyres would give greater mechanical grip, and a greater percentage of mech. to aero. So obviously a loss of downforce will have a smaller impact. Secondly, and mostly overlooked, is the aero DISadvantage of wide tyres. They make up a huge part of the total drag of an F1 car, and thus the top speed attainable will be reduced. So it will actually aid safety in one sense. Also, more drag means a greater tow to a following driver, and hopefully better overtaking chances. Of course the following driver will face a greater problem in faster corners, but will have an advantage on the straights, and the balance would hopefully lead to overtaking opportunities. I personnally believe that the major advances in aero efficiency have reduced the tow to such an extent that it is of minimal benefit. The following driver has no advantage over the leader, and therefore no chance. Another take on this would be to continue with grooved tyres, but still widen them. Perhaps to maintain the contact patch that existed with slicks before, but with a bigger aero penalty. Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit. Rafe Mc On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:23:54 -0400, "Klinn" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I agree with both your suggestions - no wings, no pit stops - and I also >wish F1 would go back to slicks, a wider track if that's beneficial, etc. >More mechanical grip, less aerodynamic grip maybe = more chances for >overtaking??? > >Probably this would end up with slower cornering speeds (less aero loading) >and higher straightaway speeds (less aero drag), making the braking zone >longer and more critical. > >Just my 0.05 Cdn > ...Klinn > >"John Fryatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9kou8k$psg$[email hidden]... >> I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. >> >> Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to >> overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without >> messing up your own air flow. >> I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes >> away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop >> strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels. >> >> John > >

EldredP wrote: > Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? http://internations.net/ru/lada/2112/2112.html Boy, I love DogPile. I can find almost anything with it. LOL -- Fester

i think there have always been periods in F1 history when one or two teams have had such a huge advantage that it could be described as boring - Lotus, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams have all had these dominant periods - so it is nothing new. I _DO_ question however if people are as willing as they once were to follow racing in periods such as this - they (tend to) have much shorter concentration spans in general these days. I tend not to watch modern F1 for this reason. Nascar however with the amount of lead changes and the strategy element I find a lot more compelling these days. Just my opinion Ian On 7 Aug 2001 05:55:55 -0700, [email hidden] (Jonesy) wrote:

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>In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see >http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda >states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually >start to switch off. > >He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic >advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a >slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing >tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every >year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of >all these girlie driver aids. > >Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got >blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > >Any thoughts?

I'm absolutely in favor of less downforce - more mechanical grip cars, but I wonder how many nowadays drivers would be able to compete with such a beast. It says a lot about F1 when you see drivers like Raikonnen can step in a F1 with hardly any experience. Take away the electronic gadgets and downforce and you'll be able to seperate the men from the boys.

He's counting Toyota, which don't compete yet. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Jonny Hodgson" wrote...

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> <snip> > So which teams are only running one car? That should > make for a grid of 24, not 22... > > Jonny > >

EldredP wrote:

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> > >"David Buttery"wrote > >> Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibility of > >> parole... > > > > Ok, I give up. What's a Lada?

Here's a nice picture of a lada "in action" doing what it knows best: http://digilander.iol.it/cuoccimix/lada2106.jpg -- am The best thing about smacking your head against the wall is the feeling you get when you stop

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote: >> Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? > > >http://internations.net/ru/lada/2112/2112.html >Boy, I love DogPile. I can find almost anything with it. LOL >

Doh! Never even LOOKED for it...<sigh> Thanks. That thing looks like the later model VW Scirroccos(sp?). Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I also agree and: Just think of all the game-sim players' who play any sims 'i.e. F1RC that wouldnt have all these aids! I just wonder what thier lap times would be without all this help. hmm? This would "seperate the men from the boys." here too. Enquiring minds would like to know!! :) A Curious -Thom_j. "Tim Vanhee" wrote: | I'm absolutely in favor of less downforce - more mechanical grip cars, butI | wonder how many nowadays drivers would be able to compete with such abeast. | It says a lot about F1 when you see drivers like Raikonnen can step in aF1 | with hardly any experience. Take away the electronic gadgets and downforce | and you'll be able to seperate the men from the boys. | | --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Is the "Lada" expensive and why does it get so many posts here? Only being "nosey" :) -Thom_j. "EldredP" wrote: | Doh! Never even LOOKED for it...<sigh> Thanks. | That thing looks like the later model VW Scirroccos(sp?). | | Eldred Uncle Fester writes: | >http://internations.net/ru/lada/2112/2112.html | >Boy, I love DogPile. I can find almost anything with it. LOL | >EldredP wrote: | >> Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

I don't think they're available new anymore, but you can pick up a used one for about the price of a bar meal ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers> "Thom j." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NyDc7.87972$[email hidden]... > Is the "Lada" expensive and why does it get so many posts here? > Only being "nosey" :) -Thom_j. > > "EldredP" wrote: > | Doh! Never even LOOKED for it...<sigh> Thanks. > | That thing looks like the later model VW Scirroccos(sp?). > | > | Eldred > > Uncle Fester writes: > | >http://internations.net/ru/lada/2112/2112.html > | >Boy, I love DogPile. I can find almost anything with it. LOL > > | >EldredP wrote: > | >> Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001 > >

Now Ian P this is funny!! hahaha So what is it another Hugo?...lol "Ian P" wrote: | I don't think they're available new anymore, but you can pick up a usedone

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| for about the price of a bar meal ;) | -- | Ian P | | "Thom j." wrote: | > Is the "Lada" expensive and why does it get so many posts here? | > Only being "nosey" :) -Thom_j.

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

"Morton Chalom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? > > Think Yugo but it's, er, not as good. YUGO :-) There are three kinds of Yugo: Yugo for USA market, Yugo for exYugoslavia and Yugo Florida. About which where you talking about. To be honest Zastava 101 was far more worse car than Yugo- but still THE SAME FACTORY. Dole na-to bombe :-) BTW. NATO blew Zastava's factory in Kragujevac in 1999. when Serbians went to kill some Albanians on Kosovo. Thank you NATO :-) Dino Besen Croatia

EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >"David Buttery"wrote > >> Or by forcing all tailgaters to drive Ladas without possibilityof > >> parole... > > > > Ok, I give up. What's a Lada? > > Eldred in reply to which: Nick G <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > typical case - the nearest gatso to me is in a spot which is quiteopen, but > a few years ago a twat in a lorry pulled out and totalled amotorbike + > rider. so obviously 1 accident in 10 years + constitutes an accident > blackspot, and reminding the lorry driver that he needs to LOOK whenpulling > out of a concealed entrance would not have avoided the accident inany way. > by the way, the speed of the zone here is 40mph - would themotorcyclist > have survived even with the speed camera? i think not. ... and the relevance was... ? Quoting is good! Jonny

in reply to which: ... and the relevance was... ? Quoting is good! Jonny

Rafe McAuliffe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > We all want a return to slick tyres, but has anyone put a > consideration into WIDENING the tyres? Ala the late 70's. Two major > points to consider. > > First, the wider tyres would give greater mechanical grip, and a > greater percentage of mech. to aero. So obviously a loss ofdownforce > will have a smaller impact. > > Secondly, and mostly overlooked, is the aero DISadvantage of wide > tyres. They make up a huge part of the total drag of an F1 car, and > thus the top speed attainable will be reduced. So it will actuallyaid [snip] It seems to have been agreed for ages that big slicks and tiny wings are the way to re-introduce racing (instead of processions) to F1 - so why isn't Bernie going in that direction? He must have his reasons... Jonny curious

Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > So which teams are only running one car? That should > > make for a grid of 24, not 22... > He's counting Toyota, which don't compete yet. Ah, thanks - I hadn't realised they were actually "occupying" a slot. Jonny

because a sponsor ain't gonna pay gazzillions of $$ to be squished onto teeny tiny winglets... dave henrie "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B%Xc7.25733$e%[email hidden]...

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> > Rafe McAuliffe <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > We all want a return to slick tyres, but has anyone put a > > consideration into WIDENING the tyres? Ala the late 70's. Two major > > points to consider. > > > > First, the wider tyres would give greater mechanical grip, and a > > greater percentage of mech. to aero. So obviously a loss of > downforce > > will have a smaller impact. > > > > Secondly, and mostly overlooked, is the aero DISadvantage of wide > > tyres. They make up a huge part of the total drag of an F1 car, and > > thus the top speed attainable will be reduced. So it will actually > aid > [snip] > > It seems to have been agreed for ages that big slicks and tiny wings > are the way to re-introduce racing (instead of processions) to F1 - so > why isn't Bernie going in that direction? > > He must have his reasons... > > Jonny > curious > >

Boy, he sure hit that nail on the head. And not just a slow down, but get rid of all the chickens, altogether. -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Jonesy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually > start to switch off. > > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of > all these girlie driver aids. > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > Any thoughts?

Also, rules packages could be prereleased. For instance: "It is now 2001. 17 of these 23 possible rule changes will go into effect in 2003 and no sooner. Prepare for them." -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Damn straight, I think there is an ultimate "solution" for a certain > rule package, the longer the rules are left alone, the closer everyone > will reach it. If they are changed, the big budget teams drop the gap > to the "ultimate" the quickest, and we have another one-sided > solution. > > I think the rules should have been left alone in '97. Even though it > would do what I stated above, the rules really do need changing now. > They just plain suck. > > Rafe Mc > > > On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:36:13 GMT, [email hidden] (Top > Sirloin) wrote: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, > >[email hidden] says... > > > >> He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > >> advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > >> slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > >> tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > >> year to allow other teams to "catch up" > > > >Seems to me the longer they leave a rules package alone, the closer the cars > >get. Remember 1997? Williams and Ferrari were the class of the field but > >McLaren, Jordan and Benneton were not at all far behind. > > > >And Damon Hill almost won in an Arrows. > > > > > >-Scott Johnson > > "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than > > to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go > > to watch their school play basketball every Saturday > > and regard that as their week's exercise." > > - John F. Kennedy, 1962 >

"Ian Greenwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I tend not to watch modern F1 for this reason. Nascar however with the > amount of lead changes and the strategy element I find a lot more > compelling these days. I think it's important to not consider one as a substitute for the other. Because then one may be forsaken. I, for one, am hungry for good old fashioned competition. The lead changes in Nascar and Indy indicate to me that there's nothing to it. Anyone can win on the right day. I don't find that exciting at all. Exactly the opposite, I find it infinitely dull. Idle entertainment at best. Modern F1 is not much better. But reduce the commercialism and drivers aids and racing line obstacles and you'll have something. Eddie Jordan may not win this year or next, but what about the next? That long term struggle, the search to find balance between team mates - driver and mechanic and manager. The lessons hard won. The life's work of the passionate. They're not just there to win today's race, but also to fulfill a higher purpose, whatever that may be. (Design, history, art.) That is the payoff to me. That is what makes it all worthwhile. When Michael and Ferrari brought home the championship, they did so in a *sport* that I hadn't watched in years. A dead sport to me. And the elation I felt was unsurpassed. All those years the Prancing Horse ran to no avail, with great drivers too, and finally... sweet confirmation. Focus, determination, sweat... to rise above the rest of the world in pursuit of your art. When Prost passes McLaren... *that* will be exciting. Sure, the Nascar and Indy guys got a little of that, but on a much lower level. The classification provides for that, and we get 400 passes a *race* in turn. Meaningless. The worlds fastest drivers, in the worlds fastest cars, on the worlds fastest race tracks. That doesn't sound so bad, does it? It seemed to work before. At least, it did for me. I miss Formula 1. -- "Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in a row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further than anyone else to complete a lap." (Bob Varsha) mark

In article <445d7.17111$[email hidden]>, "mark jeangerard" <[email hidden]> writes: >"Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in a >row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a >torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further than >anyone else to complete a lap." >(Bob Varsha) Wow - what race was THAT??? Canada, maybe? Sounds like a good one to have on tape... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"mark jeangerard" <They're not just > there to win today's race, but also to fulfill a higher purpose, whatever > that may be. (Design, history, art.) That is the payoff to me. For a higher purpose? Try for money...to spend somebody else's and make as much of your own as you can. There is an art to that I guess. So by compilling several season's of F1, you find it infinately more satisfying than a single event of Nascar or Cart. You seem to like the underdog...well there is always Tora Takagi, King Hiro, Memo Gidley....Certainly the effort put forth by a Penske team is on par with that of most F1 squads...Having been an F1 owner in the past...He probably has some idea of the comittment needed. I find F1 facinating, but if there is a Cart race on at the same time, I watch the cart race and tape the f1. different strokes...enjoy. dave henrie That is what > makes it all worthwhile. When Michael and Ferrari brought home the > championship, they did so in a *sport* that I hadn't watched in years. A > dead sport to me. And the elation I felt was unsurpassed. All those years > the Prancing Horse ran to no avail, with great drivers too, and finally... > sweet confirmation. Focus, determination, sweat... to rise above the restof > the world in pursuit of your art. When Prost passes McLaren... *that* will > be exciting. > > Sure, the Nascar and Indy guys got a little of that, but on a much lower > level. The classification provides for that, and we get 400 passes a*race*

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> in turn. Meaningless. > > The worlds fastest drivers, in the worlds fastest cars, on the worlds > fastest race tracks. That doesn't sound so bad, does it? It seemed to work > before. At least, it did for me. I miss Formula 1. > > > -- > "Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in a > row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a > torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further than > anyone else to complete a lap." > (Bob Varsha) > > mark > > >

The other great thing about wide wheels is that once you lose it the wide wheels provide far more drag to aid in stopping the mess from getting worse. PAPA DOC

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>We all want a return to slick tyres, but has anyone put a >consideration into WIDENING the tyres? Ala the late 70's. Two major >points to consider. > >First, the wider tyres would give greater mechanical grip, and a >greater percentage of mech. to aero. So obviously a loss of downforce >will have a smaller impact. > >Secondly, and mostly overlooked, is the aero DISadvantage of wide >tyres. They make up a huge part of the total drag of an F1 car, and >thus the top speed attainable will be reduced. So it will actually aid >safety in one sense. Also, more drag means a greater tow to a >following driver, and hopefully better overtaking chances. Of course >the following driver will face a greater problem in faster corners, >but will have an advantage on the straights, and the balance would >hopefully lead to overtaking opportunities. > >I personnally believe that the major advances in aero efficiency have >reduced the tow to such an extent that it is of minimal benefit. The >following driver has no advantage over the leader, and therefore no >chance. > >Another take on this would be to continue with grooved tyres, but >still widen them. Perhaps to maintain the contact patch that existed >with slicks before, but with a bigger aero penalty. > >Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the >aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so >this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the >lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit. > >Rafe Mc > > >On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:23:54 -0400, "Klinn" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I agree with both your suggestions - no wings, no pit stops - and I also >>wish F1 would go back to slicks, a wider track if that's beneficial, etc. >>More mechanical grip, less aerodynamic grip maybe = more chances for >>overtaking??? >> >>Probably this would end up with slower cornering speeds (less aero loading) >>and higher straightaway speeds (less aero drag), making the braking zone >>longer and more critical. >> >>Just my 0.05 Cdn >> ...Klinn >> >>"John Fryatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>news:9kou8k$psg$[email hidden]... >>> I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. >>> >>> Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to >>> overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without >>> messing up your own air flow. >>> I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes >>> away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop >>> strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels. >>> >>> John >> >> >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

As well as that, bigger tyres give you more grip to slow you down if you spin, when aero won't help you. On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 06:05:29 GMT, [email hidden] (Pierre Legrand) wrote: >The other great thing about wide wheels is that once you lose it the >wide wheels provide far more drag to aid in stopping the mess from >getting worse. > >PAPA DOC >

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:20:05 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > because a sponsor ain't gonna pay gazzillions of $$ to be squished onto >teeny tiny winglets... >dave henrie From my previous post... Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit. They could perhaps have some modified version to put to their own use, perhaps they could direct the airflow from such a device to aid a following car, as well as reducing drag. Thus, it would actually be an advantage to be following another car. Rafe Mc

Now that is an interesting concept Rafe. Might have to ponder that some...how best to help the following car? sending the air up takes away downforce, flowing it down would send disturbed air over the wings..damn...I wonder if we can get Greger and his Physics Nazis to work on that....cool idea.. dave henrie "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:20:05 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > because a sponsor ain't gonna pay gazzillions of $$ to be squished onto > >teeny tiny winglets... > >dave henrie > > From my previous post... > > Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the > aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so > this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the > lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit. > > > They could perhaps have some modified version to put to their own use, > perhaps they could direct the airflow from such a device to aid a > following car, as well as reducing drag. Thus, it would actually be an > advantage to be following another car. > > Rafe Mc >

Remember Nigel Mansell back in the Ferrari days?...(at least I hope it was a Ferrari...can't trust my memory any more) He was trying to pass somebody...most likely Hungary and lost it..spun off onto the grass did one complete circle and the slid back onto the pavement. the tires gripped like magic and off he went, like he had never left the racing surface at all. dave henrie "Pierre Legrand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3b761dac.53141699@news...

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> The other great thing about wide wheels is that once you lose it the > wide wheels provide far more drag to aid in stopping the mess from > getting worse. > > PAPA DOC > > > >We all want a return to slick tyres, but has anyone put a > >consideration into WIDENING the tyres? Ala the late 70's. Two major > >points to consider. > > > >First, the wider tyres would give greater mechanical grip, and a > >greater percentage of mech. to aero. So obviously a loss of downforce > >will have a smaller impact. > > > >Secondly, and mostly overlooked, is the aero DISadvantage of wide > >tyres. They make up a huge part of the total drag of an F1 car, and > >thus the top speed attainable will be reduced. So it will actually aid > >safety in one sense. Also, more drag means a greater tow to a > >following driver, and hopefully better overtaking chances. Of course > >the following driver will face a greater problem in faster corners, > >but will have an advantage on the straights, and the balance would > >hopefully lead to overtaking opportunities. > > > >I personnally believe that the major advances in aero efficiency have > >reduced the tow to such an extent that it is of minimal benefit. The > >following driver has no advantage over the leader, and therefore no > >chance. > > > >Another take on this would be to continue with grooved tyres, but > >still widen them. Perhaps to maintain the contact patch that existed > >with slicks before, but with a bigger aero penalty. > > > >Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the > >aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so > >this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the > >lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit. > > > >Rafe Mc > > > > > >On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:23:54 -0400, "Klinn" > ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>I agree with both your suggestions - no wings, no pit stops - and I also > >>wish F1 would go back to slicks, a wider track if that's beneficial,

etc. > >>More mechanical grip, less aerodynamic grip maybe = more chances for > >>overtaking??? > >> > >>Probably this would end up with slower cornering speeds (less aeroloading)

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> >>and higher straightaway speeds (less aero drag), making the braking zone > >>longer and more critical. > >> > >>Just my 0.05 Cdn > >> ...Klinn > >> > >>"John Fryatt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >>news:9kou8k$psg$[email hidden]... > >>> I think he's right, F1 is getting boring. > >>> > >>> Personally I'd ban wings as I think they make it more difficult to > >>> overtake because you can't get too close to the guy in front without > >>> messing up your own air flow. > >>> I would also ban pit-stops, as it just confuses the issue and takes > >>> away empahsis from the driver and puts (some) of it on pit-stop > >>> strategy and how quickly the mechanics can change wheels. > >>> > >>> John > >> > >> > > > > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Flanker Target > Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy > Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at > www.papadoc.net

That would be Imola, 1990. cheers! David Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BNwd7.7467$[email hidden]... > Remember Nigel Mansell back in the Ferrari days?...(at least I hope itwas > a Ferrari...can't trust my memory any more) > He was trying to pass somebody...most likely Hungary and lost it..spun off > onto the grass did one complete circle and the slid back onto thepavement. > the tires gripped like magic and off he went, like he had never left the > racing surface at all. > dave henrie

"Dino Besen" <[email hidden]> wrote: >There are three kinds of Yugo: Yugo for USA market, Yugo for exYugoslavia >and Yugo Florida.I have learned something -- thanks Dino! Without realizing it, I was referring to the Yugo for USA as the original poster has a University of Michigan URL. Now I have to ask -- what's the difference with the Florida Yugos? And thank you NATO. :) --Morton Correct email: telson @ ameritech.net

I know that the FIA did a study some years back with two F1 cars in a wind tunnel, studying the disturbed air over the second car, and how closely it could follow. The answer was - not too bloody close! But they didn't do any investigation into how to amend this, it was not a very detailed study. I think they need to look into this a bit, do some detailed research. That's if they ever want to address this problem. Rafe Mc On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:53:17 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Now that is an interesting concept Rafe. Might have to ponder that >some...how best to help the following car? >sending the air up takes away downforce, flowing it down would send >disturbed air over the wings..damn...I wonder if we can get Greger and his >Physics Nazis to work on that....cool idea.. >dave henrie >"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:20:05 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> >> wrote: >> >> > because a sponsor ain't gonna pay gazzillions of $$ to be squished onto >> >teeny tiny winglets... >> >dave henrie >> >> From my previous post... >> >> Also, the Handford device concept could be used in F1 to upset the >> aero somewhat. They don't want to lose their advertising space, so >> this could be a key ;)I wouldn't think it practical to go to the >> lengths that CART have, but the idea has some merit. >> >> >> They could perhaps have some modified version to put to their own use, >> perhaps they could direct the airflow from such a device to aid a >> following car, as well as reducing drag. Thus, it would actually be an >> advantage to be following another car. >> >> Rafe Mc >> >

Pretty good save that one, mighty impressive. Rafe Mc On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:51:53 -0500, "David Karr" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>That would be Imola, 1990. > >cheers! >David > >Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:BNwd7.7467$[email hidden]... >> Remember Nigel Mansell back in the Ferrari days?...(at least I hope it >was >> a Ferrari...can't trust my memory any more) >> He was trying to pass somebody...most likely Hungary and lost it..spun off >> onto the grass did one complete circle and the slid back onto the >pavement. >> the tires gripped like magic and off he went, like he had never left the >> racing surface at all. >> dave henrie > >

The way I see it is that racing can be done in 2 forms: Nascar \ Speedvision challenge style: Where the cars are either basically the same, or are balanced in order to create competitive balance. Prototype style: Corporations are allowed to invest all the money the want into a very lose formula, so it's who can make the best car under these loose set of rules. It seems to me that the problem with modern F1 is that it's neither of the two, somewhere in the middle. While companies are allowed to develop their own cars, there are so many rules now that teams can't develop cars that are exciting to watch, they can only develop a slightly better version of the other guys car. Le Mans cars are much more exciting for me to watch since there is more variety in how the cars can be developed. This seems to have given Audi an advtage by spending more, but at least it's fun to watch a 2-5 audi's race each other. PLUS look who won at Portland! Panoz won in a race that was more exciting than anything I've seen in F1 lately. Jonesy <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In an extract from an interview with F1 Racing magazine (see > http://www.itv-f1.com/media/cache/itvf1/story_6697.php3), Niki Lauda > states that modern F1 is getting dull and that viewers will eventually > start to switch off. > > He suggests more emphasis on wings, not underfloor for aerodynamic > advantage (thus allowing for more slipstreaming, apparently), a > slowdown on the ever-increasing addition of chicanes to existing > tracks (can't see the FIA going for that), stopping rule changes every > year to allow other teams to "catch up", and finally, the scrapping of > all these girlie driver aids. > > Ol' Niki harks back to the good ol' days where men where men who got > blisters on their hands through constant gear changes. > > Any thoughts? >

That was Magny Cours from 94-97 probably. I mean, I know it was France, just not when. I remember watching it in my hotel room in Las Vegas. I'm pretty sure I don't have it on tape because I was not home. But yes, it was quite a spectacle and Alesi was king of the day. His performance was incredible. Keep in mind that it was dry before he started setting fast lap as he was on slicks. Craaaaazy.... -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <445d7.17111$[email hidden]>, "mark > jeangerard" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >"Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in a > >row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a > >torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further than > >anyone else to complete a lap." > >(Bob Varsha) > > Wow - what race was THAT??? Canada, maybe? Sounds like a good one to have on > tape... > > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Whoa, Dave! Sorry you had to type all that for nothing. But apparently your newsreader left out the lines, "Modern F1 is not much better. But reduce the commercialism and drivers aids and racing line obstacles and you'll have something. " from my post. Those two lines change the entire meaning of what I had to say. So your post, while well written, does not apply to the subject. Might wanna check into that. -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XTod7.7007$[email hidden]... > > "mark jeangerard" > <They're not just > > there to win today's race, but also to fulfill a higher purpose, whatever > > that may be. (Design, history, art.) That is the payoff to me. > For a higher purpose? Try for money...to spend somebody else's and make > as much of your own as you can. There is an art to that I guess. > So by compilling several season's of F1, you find it infinately more > satisfying than a single event of Nascar or Cart. You seem to like the > underdog...well there is always Tora Takagi, King Hiro, Memo > Gidley....Certainly the effort put forth by a Penske team is on par with > that of most F1 squads...Having been an F1 owner in the past...He probably > has some idea of the comittment needed. I find F1 facinating, but if there > is a Cart race on at the same time, I watch the cart race and tape the f1. > different strokes...enjoy. > dave henrie > > That is what > > makes it all worthwhile. When Michael and Ferrari brought home the > > championship, they did so in a *sport* that I hadn't watched in years. A > > dead sport to me. And the elation I felt was unsurpassed. All those years > > the Prancing Horse ran to no avail, with great drivers too, and finally... > > sweet confirmation. Focus, determination, sweat... to rise above the rest > of > > the world in pursuit of your art. When Prost passes McLaren... *that* will > > be exciting. > > > > Sure, the Nascar and Indy guys got a little of that, but on a much lower > > level. The classification provides for that, and we get 400 passes a > *race* > > in turn. Meaningless. > > > > The worlds fastest drivers, in the worlds fastest cars, on the worlds > > fastest race tracks. That doesn't sound so bad, does it? It seemed to work > > before. At least, it did for me. I miss Formula 1. > > > > > > -- > > "Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in a > > row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a > > torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further than > > anyone else to complete a lap." > > (Bob Varsha) > > > > mark > > > > > > > >

Graeme Nash wrote: > ><yawn> > > I think that's the point everyone's been trying to make, Dave :-) lol.....

"mark jeangerard" (snippers) Those two lines change the entire meaning of what > I had to say. So your post, while well written, does not apply to the > subject. Might wanna check into that. That has never been an impediment for me....on topic, off topic, they are all the same :) dave henrie

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> > -- > > "Racing! - Science for the action minded." > > mark > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XTod7.7007$[email hidden]... > > > > "mark jeangerard" > > <They're not just > > > there to win today's race, but also to fulfill a higher purpose, > whatever > > > that may be. (Design, history, art.) That is the payoff to me. > > For a higher purpose? Try for money...to spend somebody else's and

make > > as much of your own as you can. There is an art to that I guess. > > So by compilling several season's of F1, you find it infinately more > > satisfying than a single event of Nascar or Cart. You seem to like the > > underdog...well there is always Tora Takagi, King Hiro, Memo > > Gidley....Certainly the effort put forth by a Penske team is on par with > > that of most F1 squads...Having been an F1 owner in the past...Heprobably

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> > has some idea of the comittment needed. I find F1 facinating, but if > there > > is a Cart race on at the same time, I watch the cart race and tape the > f1. > > different strokes...enjoy. > > dave henrie > > > > That is what > > > makes it all worthwhile. When Michael and Ferrari brought home the > > > championship, they did so in a *sport* that I hadn't watched in years.

A

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> > > dead sport to me. And the elation I felt was unsurpassed. All those > years > > > the Prancing Horse ran to no avail, with great drivers too, and > finally... > > > sweet confirmation. Focus, determination, sweat... to rise above the > rest > > of > > > the world in pursuit of your art. When Prost passes McLaren... *that* > will > > > be exciting. > > > > > > Sure, the Nascar and Indy guys got a little of that, but on a much

lower

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> > > level. The classification provides for that, and we get 400 passes a > > *race* > > > in turn. Meaningless. > > > > > > The worlds fastest drivers, in the worlds fastest cars, on the worlds > > > fastest race tracks. That doesn't sound so bad, does it? It seemed to > work > > > before. At least, it did for me. I miss Formula 1. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "Jean Alesi has just set fastest lap of the race for the second lap in

a

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> > > row. No mean feat considering that he is the only car on slicks, in a > > > torrential downpour, and must be traveling at least 1/4 mile further > than > > > anyone else to complete a lap." > > > (Bob Varsha) > > > > > > mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c4tf7.32454$[email hidden]... > That has never been an impediment for me....on topic, off topic, theyare > all the same :) > dave henrie Sorry, my mistake. LOL -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark

From Autosport:- Bobby Rahal has been sacked from his position as Chief Executive Officer of Jaguar Racing Formula 1 team after just nine months on the job following yesterday's (Thursday's) crunch meeting with the Big Cat bosses Niki Lauda and Wolfgang Reitzle. Rahal was given the reins of the Jaguar team last December, but in under a year relations are thought to have broken down between the erstwhile CEO and Jaguar overlord Niki Lauda, who was brought in to chair Ford's Premier Performance Division, which includes Jaguar Racing, earlier this year. The top heavy structure is believed to have caused confusion at the Milton Keynes-based team and following a protracted meeting in London on Thursday, between the management duo and Jaguar Cars chairman Reitzle, Rahal has been shown the door and will be replaced by Lauda. Rahal has never outwardly criticised Lauda, despite rumoured disagreements over such matters as Arrows' Cosworth engine deal for next year and more recently Rahal's offer to sell number one driver Eddie Irvine to Jordan. According to the American, who is to return to his Champ Car team in the US, the split was entirely amicable. "It has been a tremendous privilege to play a key role in the formative stages of the development of Jaguar Racing," said Rahal. "I have truly enjoyed the time I have spent with the many talented people at Jaguar Racing and I wish them all the best for the future. "I would stress this is an entirely amicable parting and I look forward to continuing my other business relationships with Ford in the US." Lauda was brought in as chairman of the PPD in February to oversee Cosworth, Pi Research and Jaguar Racing and also to 'smooth the way' for Rahal at a higher management level. However, the three time world champion has made quite an impact on the team and will be taking over Rahal's former duties with immediate effect. "I would like to thank Bobby for the contribution he has made to Jaguar Racing," said Lauda. "Following this development my focus will now be 100 percent on the Jaguar F1 project." "mark jeangerard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sP3h7.5199$[email hidden]...

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> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:c4tf7.32454$[email hidden]... > > That has never been an impediment for me....on topic, off topic, they > are > > all the same :) > > dave henrie > > Sorry, my mistake. > > LOL > > -- > > "Racing! - Science for the action minded." > > mark > > >