GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater

GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater --- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post --- When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a week or 2. The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was nothing short of amazing. Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000 addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL.. That should say enough :) First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3, including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so far was GP3 as it came out of the box. Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy. Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis. Calibrated them, calibration succesfull! Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'. Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto the track again, pedals didn�t work. %&$^ ! After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting the Joyreg utility. Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a closer look at Papy's calibration system next time. Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First thing I noticed: THE SOUND! Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great. Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd. So: back to the dreadfull control menu. After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering. Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the 2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe, GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I got it working quite easily. Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of 1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on. Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But.. all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of a fight with the AI. After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90 minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing. In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another surprising feature. Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well, errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track is hard! So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically after this 2000 update. In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect it to do. Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good. Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere. Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine sounds could use some improvement.. they�re not bad, especially while watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste I guess, I don�t know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a helmet on. I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed compared to GP3. Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the same, it�s just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any programming skills). So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC, where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the package. What�s quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, it�s totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI. While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot. I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didn�t test this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an accident. If it really works that way.. that�s good, that�s really good. And then.. the physics... here goes... Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you get much more control and feeling of the car. I�m not a physics expert, unlike Gregor Veble I can�t tell you WHY is feels good, I just can tell you THAT is feels good :) Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the brakes while entering Tarzan, it�s all there, and it feels good. I don�t know if it�s the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that it�s because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or because of my improved controller settings.. but it all feels so much better than in GP3. Better/worse than F1CS2k/F1RC? No idea. F1CS2k feels good, F1RC feels good, but they all feel slightly different and I couldn�t tell which one comes closest to reality. If I have to guess it�s F1RC, but one thing about the physics of F1RC is that the car spins without any kind of warning. That may be realistic, what I seriously doubt since you feel so much more in a real car, and I�m sure you can feel when the car is driving on it�s limit, but anyway, it�s annoying as hell. In GP3 it�s possible to save a spin, but it�s HARD to do so, and that�s the way I like it. Possible to save a spin, but you have to work for it. With it�s excellent AI, variable weather and all the user-made tracks the winner is clear to me. The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. This is how GP3 should have been released. I still think GP3 was more of a beta version, and the '2000 addon' is nothing more than a major patch for GP3 to make it as it should have been. Just like F1RC2 will be the patch for the F1RC beta. Andre GP3 2000 lover :)

Now for the million dollar question.... [...... ....... drum-roll ....... ......] Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000?? -- ed_ Andre Warringa wrote: > > This is how GP3 should have been released. I still think GP3 was more > of a beta version, and the '2000 addon' is nothing more than a major > patch for GP3 to make it as it should have been. Just like F1RC2 will > be the patch for the F1RC beta. > > > Andre > > GP3 2000 lover :) >

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:10 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Now for the million dollar question.... >[...... ....... drum-roll ....... ......] >Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000?? Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3. I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000 here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very, very good F1 sim now. So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the game in the first place.. Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential update for F1RC1

And how much does one have to pay to get this patch?

In that case... it sounds too me like just another rip-off.. No way I'm paying twice the price just to get what should have been GP3 and not 2 patches for GP2 -- ed_ Andre Warringa wrote: > > On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:10 +0200, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Now for the million dollar question.... > >[...... ....... drum-roll ....... ......] > >Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000?? > > Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3. > I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000 > here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in > the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are > lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very, > very good F1 sim now. > > So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's > mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the > game in the first place.. > > Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential > update for F1RC1

I think with GPxPatch GP3 is better than GP3 2000. I can't even get my 64MB GF2 Ultra to calibrate in GP3 2000 without crashing to the desktop... "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (21 lines)

> > On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:10 +0200, "Ed Solheim" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Now for the million dollar question.... > >[...... ....... drum-roll ....... ......] > >Do you need GP3 to use GP3 2000?? > > Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3. > I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000 > here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in > the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are > lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very, > very good F1 sim now. > > So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's > mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the > game in the first place.. > > Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential > update for F1RC1

Andre, Thanks for that review..... It sounds like it might be worthwhile. One question though (OK, maybe more...): 1. I see that you use the LWFF with CH pedals. (I use the LWFF with TSW pedals). On what ID number do you have the wheel and on which are the pedals? I ask this because, on my system, to get FF in GP3 now, I have to switch the ID numbers from what GPL requires, which is a bit annoying. 2. Also, related to this, you mentioned F1RC, so you must have at least tried it out. How did you get F1RC to recognize 2 different controllers at the same time (LWFF plus CH pedals)? Thanks again, Bert Andre Warringa wrote:

Quoted text (207 lines)

> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater > > --- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post --- > > When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt > like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other > F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car > behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a > week or 2. > > The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was > nothing short of amazing. > > Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000 > addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL.. > That should say enough :) > > First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3, > including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so > far was GP3 as it came out of the box. > > Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and > that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it > recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy. > > Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my > CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately > reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis. > > Calibrated them, calibration succesfull! > > Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track > loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals > suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'. > > Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto > the track again, pedals didn�t work. %&$^ ! > > After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting > the Joyreg utility. > > Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed > me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a > closer look at Papy's calibration system next time. > > Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First > thing I noticed: THE SOUND! > > Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was > totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the > best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great. > > Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total > crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel > where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd. > > So: back to the dreadfull control menu. > > After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time > to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup > guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the > car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering > lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which > helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering. > > Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was > to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple > of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very > curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation > was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the > 2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe, > GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I > got it working quite easily. > > Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit > different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it > was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my > computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I > know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I > chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of > 1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on. > > Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I > had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on > the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind > me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But.. > all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of > cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned > my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the > backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back > to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the > AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply > the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of > a fight with the AI. > > After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while > braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels > the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90 > minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI > was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they > avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing. > > In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another > surprising feature. > > Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well, > errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I > would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track > is hard! > > So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically > after this 2000 update. > > In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing > still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was > turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this > bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect > it to do. > > Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good. > Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but > they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there > are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere. > Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank > up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine > sounds could use some improvement.. they�re not bad, especially while > watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car > sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste > I guess, I don�t know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a > helmet on. > > I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I > still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the > controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed > compared to GP3. > > Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't > import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I > don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible > with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the > same, it�s just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most > utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any > programming skills). > > So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of > multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it > anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro > level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have > the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC, > where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the > straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI > doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI > doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the > package. > > What�s quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, it�s > totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI. > While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a > lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead > of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot. > > I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didn�t test > this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken > off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an > accident. If it really works that way.. that�s good, that�s really > good. > > And then.. the physics... here goes... > > Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read > that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try > those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you > get much more control and feeling of the car. I�m not a physics > expert, unlike Gregor Veble I can�t tell you WHY is feels good, I just > can tell you THAT is feels good :) > > Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling > the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the > brakes while entering Tarzan, it�s all there, and it feels good. I > don�t know if it�s the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that > it�s because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or > because of my improved controller settings.. but it all feels so much > better than in GP3. Better/worse than F1CS2k/F1RC? No idea. F1CS2k > feels good, F1RC feels good, but they all feel slightly different and > I couldn�t tell which one comes closest to reality. If I have to guess > it�s F1RC, but one thing about the physics of F1RC is that the car > spins without any kind of warning. That may be realistic, what I > seriously doubt since you feel so much more in a real car, and I�m > sure you can feel when the car is driving on it�s limit, but anyway, > it�s annoying as hell. In GP3 it�s possible to save a spin, but it�s > HARD to do so, and that�s the way I like it. Possible to save a spin, > but you have to work for it. With it�s excellent AI, variable weather > and all the user-made tracks the winner is clear to me. > > The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. > What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been > implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP > multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. > > This is how GP3 should have been released. I still think GP3 was more > of a beta version, and the '2000 addon' is nothing more than a major > patch for GP3 to make it as it should have been. Just like F1RC2 will > be the patch for the F1RC beta. > > Andre > > GP3 2000 lover :)

-- Bert

About �13 in the UK. Iain "Carol Bekker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6lbg7.12137$[email hidden]... > And how much does one have to pay to get this patch? > > >

Sounds good Andre, but I'm a little worried that you haven't tried any of the patches for GP3 from the web. GPx patch, various sound event packs, and 2001 graphics for the cars etc. completely transform GP3 in my opinion. So, we can't really judge the addon until you've tried them out. Iain "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (210 lines)

> > GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater > > --- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post --- > > When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt > like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other > F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car > behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a > week or 2. > > The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was > nothing short of amazing. > > Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000 > addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL.. > That should say enough :) > > First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3, > including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so > far was GP3 as it came out of the box. > > Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and > that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it > recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy. > > Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my > CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately > reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis. > > Calibrated them, calibration succesfull! > > Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track > loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals > suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'. > > Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto > the track again, pedals didn't work. %&$^ ! > > After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting > the Joyreg utility. > > Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed > me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a > closer look at Papy's calibration system next time. > > Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First > thing I noticed: THE SOUND! > > Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was > totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the > best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great. > > Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total > crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel > where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd. > > So: back to the dreadfull control menu. > > After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time > to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup > guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the > car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering > lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which > helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering. > > Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was > to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple > of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very > curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation > was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the > 2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe, > GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I > got it working quite easily. > > Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit > different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it > was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my > computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I > know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I > chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of > 1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on. > > Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I > had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on > the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind > me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But.. > all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of > cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned > my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the > backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back > to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the > AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply > the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of > a fight with the AI. > > After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while > braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels > the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90 > minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI > was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they > avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing. > > In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another > surprising feature. > > Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well, > errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I > would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track > is hard! > > So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically > after this 2000 update. > > In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing > still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was > turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this > bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect > it to do. > > Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good. > Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but > they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there > are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere. > Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank > up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine > sounds could use some improvement.. they're not bad, especially while > watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car > sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste > I guess, I don't know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a > helmet on. > > I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I > still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the > controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed > compared to GP3. > > Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't > import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I > don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible > with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the > same, it's just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most > utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any > programming skills). > > So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of > multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it > anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro > level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have > the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC, > where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the > straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI > doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI > doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the > package. > > What's quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, it's > totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI. > While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a > lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead > of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot. > > I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didn't test > this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken > off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an > accident. If it really works that way.. that's good, that's really > good. > > And then.. the physics... here goes... > > Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read > that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try > those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you > get much more control and feeling of the car. I'm not a physics > expert, unlike Gregor Veble I can't tell you WHY is feels good, I just > can tell you THAT is feels good :) > > Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling > the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the > brakes while entering Tarzan, it's all there, and it feels good. I > don't know if it's the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that > it's because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or > because of my improved controller settings.. but it all feels so much > better than in GP3. Better/worse than F1CS2k/F1RC? No idea. F1CS2k > feels good, F1RC feels good, but they all feel slightly different and > I couldn't tell which one comes closest to reality. If I have to guess > it's F1RC, but one thing about the physics of F1RC is that the car > spins without any kind of warning. That may be realistic, what I > seriously doubt since you feel so much more in a real car, and I'm > sure you can feel when the car is driving on it's limit, but anyway, > it's annoying as hell. In GP3 it's possible to save a spin, but it's > HARD to do so, and that's the way I like it. Possible to save a spin, > but you have to work for it. With it's excellent AI, variable weather > and all the user-made tracks the winner is clear to me. > > The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. > What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been > implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP > multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. > > This is how GP3 should have been released. I still think GP3 was more > of a beta version, and the '2000 addon' is nothing more than a major > patch for GP3 to make it as it should have been. Just like F1RC2 will > be the patch for the F1RC beta. > > > Andre > > GP3 2000 lover :) >

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:52:07 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre, Thanks for that review..... It sounds like it might be worthwhile. > >One question though (OK, maybe more...): > >1. I see that you use the LWFF with CH pedals. (I use the LWFF with TSW >pedals). On what ID number do you have the wheel and on which are the >pedals? I ask this because, on my system, to get FF in GP3 now, I have to >switch the ID numbers from what GPL requires, which is a bit annoying.

I have my LWFF on 1, and the pedals on 2.. >2. Also, related to this, you mentioned F1RC, so you must have at least >tried it out. How did you get F1RC to recognize 2 different controllers >at the same time (LWFF plus CH pedals)? Oh, that's a long story.. I explained it sometime here on RAS and it took me allmost as long as writing the GP3 2000 review :D Anyway, it's a long time ago and I can't remember exactly how I did it, but this should help you a bit: Notice when you calibrate your pedals, that the description changes the further you press the pedals while calibrating. For example, when you fully press the pedals and press the ok button, it says something like Z- Axis. If you calibrate the pedals again but press it halfway, and press ok, it says R+ axis or something like that instead. Well, experiment with these different values untill it works.. good luck.. :) Andre >Thanks again, >Bert > >

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:29:36 -0400, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I think with GPxPatch GP3 is better than GP3 2000. I can't even get my 64MB >GF2 Ultra to calibrate in GP3 2000 without crashing to the desktop... As I wrote, I never used any of the GP3 addons so I can't comment on that. However, opinions on the GP3 forums seems to be that lots of small extra things were addes in the GP3 addon, and the sound of the addon is also much better now than the GPxPatch sound addon, so.. Anyway, try putting this in the cards.txt file in your gp3 2000 map: [general] [NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro] bilinear=1 liverynumbers=0 detailmap=1 alticons=0 alphawithck=1 NO IDEA if it actually helps, but I stumbled on this in a GP3 forum as recommended settings for a GF2 card. Calibration went fine on my system with a GF2 GTS btw. Andre

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:39:25 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Sounds good Andre, but I'm a little worried that you haven't tried any of >the patches for GP3 from the web. GPx patch, various sound event packs, and >2001 graphics for the cars etc. completely transform GP3 in my opinion. So, >we can't really judge the addon until you've tried them out. >Iain Very, very true, after the fiasco of GP3 I absolutely didn't bother trying the addons released later. But I just posted my comments about this in another post in this thread, read that please. Btw, I can't wait for the GP3 addons to work under GP3 2000 now.. I just saw the 2001 carset made by Ralph something, he's the Bruce Johnson of GP3 :)) (err.. for those of you who don't know Bruce - he's the van Gogh of GPL :) Andre

Andre, YOU ARE THE MAN! Thanks for that tip about how to get F1RC to work with 2 separate controllers! I asked this same question on r.a.s. a number of times, but never got an answer that worked -- until your reply. Not only does it work, but I can use the same configuration as I do with GPL (Peds on ID#1 and LWFF on ID#2), and still have FF effects. Now, if I can get confirmation that this same configuration will also work with GP3 after the add-on, I'll definitely buy the add-on. (Unfortunately, with GP3 out-of-the-box, I have to have the LWFF on ID#1 to get FF effects, which necessitates swapping out ID numbers whenever I switch from one sim to another.) Thanks again! Andre Warringa wrote:

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> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:52:07 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Andre, Thanks for that review..... It sounds like it might be worthwhile. > > > >One question though (OK, maybe more...): > > > >1. I see that you use the LWFF with CH pedals. (I use the LWFF with TSW > >pedals). On what ID number do you have the wheel and on which are the > >pedals? I ask this because, on my system, to get FF in GP3 now, I have to > >switch the ID numbers from what GPL requires, which is a bit annoying. > > I have my LWFF on 1, and the pedals on 2.. > > >2. Also, related to this, you mentioned F1RC, so you must have at least > >tried it out. How did you get F1RC to recognize 2 different controllers > >at the same time (LWFF plus CH pedals)? > > Oh, that's a long story.. I explained it sometime here on RAS and it > took me allmost as long as writing the GP3 2000 review :D > Anyway, it's a long time ago and I can't remember exactly how I did > it, but this should help you a bit: > Notice when you calibrate your pedals, that the description changes > the further you press the pedals while calibrating. > For example, when you fully press the pedals and press the ok button, > it says something like Z- Axis. If you calibrate the pedals again but > press it halfway, and press ok, it says R+ axis or something like that > instead. > Well, experiment with these different values untill it works.. good > luck.. :) > > Andre > > >Thanks again, > >Bert > > > >

-- Bert

Yep, Ralph's addon is great, but GPxpatch is the big one. A real difference there - adds 3D sound, other car sounds, ability to associate sound events, gets rid of the 'sky messages', has 'official type' messages onscreen, etc. etc. Iain "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:39:25 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Sounds good Andre, but I'm a little worried that you haven't tried any of > >the patches for GP3 from the web. GPx patch, various sound event packs,and > >2001 graphics for the cars etc. completely transform GP3 in my opinion.So,

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> >we can't really judge the addon until you've tried them out. > >Iain > > Very, very true, after the fiasco of GP3 I absolutely didn't bother > trying the addons released later. But I just posted my comments about > this in another post in this thread, read that please. > > Btw, I can't wait for the GP3 addons to work under GP3 2000 now.. > I just saw the 2001 carset made by Ralph something, he's the Bruce > Johnson of GP3 :)) > > (err.. for those of you who don't know Bruce - he's the van Gogh of > GPL :) > > Andre

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:38 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: >Now, if I can get confirmation that this same configuration will also work with >GP3 after the add-on, I'll definitely buy the add-on. (Unfortunately, with GP3 >out-of-the-box, I have to have the LWFF on ID#1 to get FF effects, which >necessitates swapping out ID numbers whenever I switch from one sim to >another.) Wouldn't it be easier to put the LWFF on 1 and the pedals on 2? That way it works with all sims. Even more, with my LWFF on 1 I have much stronger FF than when I set it on id 2. Good to hear you for F1RC working.. clever calibration system eh? :) Andre

>"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > --- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post --- Sheesh ;-) > When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. I would agree with that even today. Gp3 is anything but a successful modern F1 simulation, compared to what Ubisoft or EA Sports have produced. It has an incredible feeling that is yet matched, and I personally like the colour palette/grainy aspect of the sim that makes it quite realistically pleasant to my eye (compared to other super-washed out graphic engine). But everything else is a major disappointment. Geoff Crammond is living in another world, we were saying this when Gp2 was released! It's the second person that gives an interesting note to the 2000 add-on. It looks like this is the GP3 that should had been released. It still has the major flaw that is it's own core game engine, but everything else around it now seems to be close to the modern standards of the gaming industry. Except the whole TCP/IP situation which is pathetic. > Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my > CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately > reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis. mmmm <drool> I never had them working for me also with my EXL500. > What's quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, it's > totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI. > While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a > lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead > of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot. The same could be said of GP2. The AI cars drive the track pretty well. It's actually imho the best AI implementation in Gp3 that I've seen for a modern F1 sim. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Putting the LWFF on ID#1 and the pedals on ID#2 results in no FF effects for me in GPL. (Can't remember right now, but I think that's also the case with N4). If I could get the FF to work in GPL (and N4) under this configuration, I would set it up that way so it would work in all sims. Any ideas why it doesn't work in GPL? Andre Warringa wrote:

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> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:38 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Now, if I can get confirmation that this same configuration will also work with > >GP3 after the add-on, I'll definitely buy the add-on. (Unfortunately, with GP3 > >out-of-the-box, I have to have the LWFF on ID#1 to get FF effects, which > >necessitates swapping out ID numbers whenever I switch from one sim to > >another.) > > Wouldn't it be easier to put the LWFF on 1 and the pedals on 2? That > way it works with all sims. > Even more, with my LWFF on 1 I have much stronger FF than when I set > it on id 2. > Good to hear you for F1RC working.. clever calibration system eh? :) > > Andre

-- Bert

The other thing that I hope has been updated in the TCP/IP code for networking. If that has had some work, then this might be what we've all been waiting for. I'll report back on LAN performance anyway. Rafe Mc

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>Yes, it's an add-on for GP3 so you need a copy of GP3. >I do agree with someone else who wrote his thoughts about GP3 2000 >here - this addon turns GP3 into the sim that it should have been in >the first place. GP3 was seriously lacking, and allthough there are >lots of wishes left after the installation of the addon, it's a very, >very good F1 sim now. > >So.. question remains is if we have to pay for this addon since it's >mostly an essential update with things that should have been in the >game in the first place.. > >Andre / who wonders if F1RC2 will be free for download as an essential >update for F1RC1

Cancel that last post of mine.... Just tried GPL with LWFF on ID#1, and FF works. Don't know why it didn't before. Oh well. All 3 (GPL, F1RC and GP3) work under this same configuration. BRH wrote:

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> Putting the LWFF on ID#1 and the pedals on ID#2 results in no FF effects for me in > GPL. (Can't remember right now, but I think that's also the case with N4). If I > could get the FF to work in GPL (and N4) under this configuration, I would set it up > that way so it would work in all sims. > > Any ideas why it doesn't work in GPL? > > Andre Warringa wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:38 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Now, if I can get confirmation that this same configuration will also work with > > >GP3 after the add-on, I'll definitely buy the add-on. (Unfortunately, with GP3 > > >out-of-the-box, I have to have the LWFF on ID#1 to get FF effects, which > > >necessitates swapping out ID numbers whenever I switch from one sim to > > >another.) > > > > Wouldn't it be easier to put the LWFF on 1 and the pedals on 2? That > > way it works with all sims. > > Even more, with my LWFF on 1 I have much stronger FF than when I set > > it on id 2. > > Good to hear you for F1RC working.. clever calibration system eh? :) > > > > Andre > > -- > Bert

-- Bert

> I personally like the colour >palette/grainy aspect of the sim that makes it quite realistically pleasant >to my eye (compared to other super-washed out graphic engine). But >everything else is a major disappointment. Wish I was as much of a fan :) But it's still not too bad, and the whole point of playing is the racing, right? > >Geoff Crammond is living in another world, we were saying this when Gp2 was >released! Amen to that, brother.

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> > >It's the second person that gives an interesting note to the 2000 add-on. >It looks like this is the GP3 that should had been released. It still has >the major flaw that is it's own core game engine, but everything else around >it now seems to be close to the modern standards of the gaming industry. >Except the whole TCP/IP situation which is pathetic.

Hopefully when the GPx patch is ported to the addon, it'll be alot better <fingers crossed>. Shouldn't be too long, hopefully. The game/file system seems virtually identical, just updated to what *should* have been released a while back. >> Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my >> CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately >> reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis. > >mmmm <drool> I never had them working for me also with my EXL500. Worked instantly for me too, controller system seems much more advanced. Actually on a par with most other sims now <g> Considering how much trouble I had with GP3, this is a breeze :D > >The same could be said of GP2. The AI cars drive the track pretty well. >It's actually imho the best AI implementation in Gp3 that I've seen for a >modern F1 sim. I've never been a fan of the AI in Gp3, but WOW, that AI is superb. Can't complain about that aspect at all, very well implemented. The sound is indeed a hell of a lot better, but one thing I don't like is the way the sound 'switches' from on throttle to off throttle. No subtleties about it, its either full noise or none. But to hear the full grid at the start is quite nice :) Should've added that in from the start with GP3, but hey. Rafe Mc

Glad to hear you're as impressed as I was, it's very nicely put together. Seems to fix *most* of the major flaws from gp3, and some nice subtle improvements to the game all round. Pity that you had so much trouble with your controller, but at least it all worked out in the end :D The replay controller is very cool, much better than before as well. But it's amazing how much they could learn from Papy with this stuff. Most glaring problems still: - Graphics - hopefully fixed in GP4 - Menu system - Good in its day, but a pain now. Fixed in GP4 I think as well. - Setups and setup defaults - still has a single default setup, and seems to decide for itself which setup you want, regardless of which one you used last. It should automatically save your changes and remember your last one, ala GPL. It also still puts on new tyres after you enter the pits, so you can't check wear unless you manually put the old tyres back on. - Physics - Mostly there now, but it could still be improved upon IMO. But a definite improvement over the original, the feel for the car is there and the wet weather driving is pretty cool. One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. All in all, not too shabby. Rafe Mc On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:02:53 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater > >--- WARNING: This post has the length of an average Tom Pabst post --- > >When GP3 was released, it was a HUGE disappointment for me. It felt >like a 2-year old game in every way. Graphics sucked compared to other >F1 sims, sound was poor (no engine sounds of the other cars) and car >behaviour was so unbelievable odd sometimes that I deleted GP3 after a >week or 2. > >The only good thing about GP3 was imho the variable weather which was >nothing short of amazing. > >Allthough I was affraid it would be a waste of time, I tried the 2000 >addon. And now I spend the whole weekend playing GP3 instead of GPL.. >That should say enough :) > >First of all, I never tried all the addons that were released for GP3, >including the sounds-for-all-cars patch, so the only thing I saw so >far was GP3 as it came out of the box. > >Anyway, I installed the addon. I chose automatic sound calibration and >that worked perfect. Automatic graphics calibration, and it >recommended 1280x1024 with all settings on, whoopy. > >Now the hard part - wheel and pedals calibration. I never could get my >CH pedals working in GP3. This time it seemed to work, GP3 immediately >reckognized my LWFF and CH pedals on split axis. > >Calibrated them, calibration succesfull! > >Finally I chose a track and was ready to test the car. The track >loaded, I was in the pits, and.. &%^$, calibration of my pedals >suddenly didn't work, I couldn't even choose 'leave pits'. > >Escape, back to control menu, recalibrate, pedals worked again, onto >the track again, pedals didn�t work. %&$^ ! > >After much digging in old RAS posts I finally found a post suggesting >the Joyreg utility. > >Installed Joyreg, recalibrated in GP3, and it finally worked! Costed >me about 3 hours in total to figure it out. Thanks Geoff, take a >closer look at Papy's calibration system next time. > >Anyway, time for a testdrive. Monaco, dry weather, quick race. First >thing I noticed: THE SOUND! > >Full EAX, all the cars made sound now, GREAT!! Into the tunnel was >totally fantastic with the sound reflecting off the walls. Simply the >best use in a car sim of EAX I have ever heard, great great great. > >Buuuut there was a slight problem.. the control of my car was total >crap. Wheels locked way too easily and too suddenly, I couldn't feel >where the locking point was. Steering also was very odd. > >So: back to the dreadfull control menu. > >After an hour of unsuccesful messing with all the settings it was time >to dig up some info on the internet again. I found a control setup >guide on www.bhmotorsports.com. Tried it, and now the control of the >car was muchos better. The biggest difference was setting the steering >lock on the maximum of 20 instead of the default settings of 12, which >helped a lot in getting more feeling in the steering. > >Ok, finally I got this thing setup ok. The next thing wanted to do was >to download my hometrack, Zandvoort. I raced there for real a couple >of weeks ago, read that the track was created for GP3, so I was very >curious if it would be any good. Downloaded the track, installation >was a bit of a hassle since none of the trackmanagers worked with the >2000 addon (all of the utilities I tried were looking for the GP3.exe, >GP3 2000 uses another exe) but with a bit of manual file renaming I >got it working quite easily. > >Onto the track, and allthough the real life version is a bit >different, the banking in the GP3 was a bit off in most corners, it >was still huge fun to drive the current layout of Zandy on my >computer. After half an hour of practice I did some 1:22 laps (yes I >know the WR is 1:18 in GP3 so I suck :) and it was time for a race. I >chose Pro level, the fastest AI guys were doing qualification laps of >1:22 there so that would be a good level to race them on. > >Qualified 6th. The lights went out and there we went. After 2 laps I >had overtaken 2 guys and I was in 4th place. And crap, there I spun on >the track, overdid it in the Nissan corner. With 18 guys close behind >me I was expecting the usual AI pileup, as I was used in GPL. But.. >all the AI cars were avoiding me.. most drove around me, a couple of >cars who couldn't drive around me stopped.. this was great! I turned >my car after everyone passed me safely, and was dead last now. But the >backmarkers were doing 1:24-1:25 laps so it was quite easy to get back >to 12 position. From there it got harder and harder (the driving), the >AI was blocking me, weren't giving me an inch.. man this was simply >the best AI I ever encountered in a racing sim, I was having a hell of >a fight with the AI. > >After a couple of laps more, back to 10th, I locked my wheels while >braking for Tarzan, hit the wall, and without nose and front wheels >the race was over for me. I watched the replay (you can save up to 90 >minutes of replay now) and it was fantastic to see the race.. the AI >was behaving perfect at the start, no crashes, and to see how they >avoided my car when I spun on the middle of the track was amazing. > >In the replay you can also hear the crowds cheering, which was another >surprising feature. > >Time for another race but now I chose a race in the rain. Well, >errr... after 2 laps with sliding off at every corner I thought I >would try that again later. Much later :) Damn, driving on a wet track >is hard! > >So, as you guessed by now, my opinion about GP3 has changed radically >after this 2000 update. > >In GP3 I discovered a very stupid physics bug. When I was standing >still on the track, turned my wheel left, and gave gas, the car was >turning around it's middle axis, on and on. After the 2000 addon this >bug has gone and under the same conditions the car turns as I expect >it to do. > >Force feedback is nice, not half as good as in GPL, but it's good. >Graphics are still quite sad compared to the beautiful F1RC, but >they're better than in GP3 I think.. it seems less pixelated and there >are much more track objects now, giving the tracks more atmosphere. >Sound is as I mentioned great. EAX implementation is wonderfull, crank >up those 4 speakers and annoy your neighbours! Though the engine >sounds could use some improvement.. they�re not bad, especially while >watching a replay from the TV cam they sound great, but the in-car >sound could sound a bit more powerfull. But this is a matter of taste >I guess, I don�t know how it sounds like sitting in an F1 car with a >helmet on. > >I read the menu system would be improved in the 2000 addon, well I >still think it's way too clumsy, especially settings up the >controllers was quite annoying to say the least. It hardly changed >compared to GP3. > >Too bad the GP3 utilities don't work with the addon, so you can't >import GP3 carsets, carshapes and stuff like that. Not yet anyway, I >don't think it will take long before the tools are made compatible >with the addon. It seems like the structure of GP3 files remained the >same, it�s just that GP3 2000 uses another exe file to start and most >utilities have to adapt to that. (he said simplistic without any >programming skills). > >So far my fave -current- F1 sim was F1RC, but with it's lack of >multiplayer and the baaaad AI there's not much fun of playing it >anymore. The AI in GP3 has the right rythm, when I set the AI to Pro >level where they drive allmost the same laptimes as me, they also have >the same speed as me in the corners and on the straights. Unlike F1RC, >where the AI is way too fast in the corners and way too slow on the >straights. And I think I have the only copy of F1RC where the AI >doesn't learn, because after many races they still suck. In GP3 the AI >doesn't have to learn, they know how to drive right out of the >package. > >What�s quite funny: In most sims, while watching a replay, it�s >totally obvious which driver is human and which drivers are the AI. >While watching a replay of me amongst the AI, I noticed after half a >lap I was watching the wrong Ferarri.. I was watching the AI instead >of my own car. That impressed me quite a lot. > >I also read you can collide with debris from other cars. I didn�t test >this yet, but I read a report from someone whose front wing got broken >off after colliding with a wheel that was lying on the road after an >accident. If it really works that way.. that�s good, that�s really >good. > >And then.. the physics... here goes... > >Ok, right out of the box, the settings for the controllers suck. Read >that guide I was talking about on http://www.bhmotorsports.com and try >those settings. They work like a charm on my system. After that you >get much more control and feeling of the car. I�m not a physics >expert, unlike Gregor Veble I can�t tell you WHY is feels good, I just >can tell you THAT is feels good :) > >Sliding a bit when entering a corner too fast a la Montoya, feeling >the rear braking out and quickly catching the spin, squeezing the >brakes while entering Tarzan, it�s all there, and it feels good. I >don�t know if it�s the physics that have changed in GP3 2000, that >it�s because of the year 2000 cars, because of the new setups or >because of my improved controller settings.. but it all feels so much >better than in GP3. Better/worse than F1CS2k/F1RC? No idea. F1CS2k >feels good, F1RC feels good, but they all feel slightly different and >I couldn�t tell which one comes closest to reality. If I have to guess >it�s F1RC, but one thing about the physics of F1RC is that the car >spins without any kind of warning. That may be realistic, what I >seriously doubt since you feel so much more in a real car, and I�m >sure you can feel when the car is driving on it�s limit, but anyway, >it�s annoying as hell. In GP3 it�s possible to save a spin, but it�s >HARD to do so, and that�s the way I like it. Possible to save a spin, >but you have to work for it. With it�s excellent AI, variable weather >and all the user-made tracks the winner is clear to me. > >The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. >What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been >implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP >multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. > >This is how GP3 should have been released. I still think GP3 was more >of a beta version, and the '2000 addon' is nothing more than a major >patch for GP3 to make it as it should have been. Just like F1RC2 will >be the patch for the F1RC beta. > > >Andre > >GP3 2000 lover :)

>> But to hear the full grid at the start is quite nice :) Should've addedthat in from the start with GP3, but hey.<< It was in GPxPatch along with many other improvements/addons. Iain

> The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. > What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been > implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP > multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. > I played a 26 Lap 3 player TCP/IP multiplayer game the other night and it was brilliant. The option is there and it's not hard to find. Ted

Ted <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. > > What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been > > implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP > > multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. > > > > I played a 26 Lap 3 player TCP/IP multiplayer game the other night and it > was brilliant. The option is there and it's not hard to find.

But a 3 player race isn't the same anymore after getting used to 20+ in GPL and N4. I had a blast in ICR2 racing modem to modem with a friend of mine, but that's 4 years ago. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Yeah, I know, that's what i was referrring to. Just never got around to installing it. i can be a lazy bugger at times :) Rafe Mc On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:26:03 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >>> But to hear the full grid at the start is quite nice :) Should've added >that in from >the start with GP3, but hey.<< > >It was in GPxPatch along with many other improvements/addons. >Iain >

Also noticed that gp3 2000 supports 3dNOW! on AMD cpus. Anyone know if this was the case in the GP3 original? Rafe Mc On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:14:18 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote:

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>Glad to hear you're as impressed as I was, it's very nicely put >together. Seems to fix *most* of the major flaws from gp3, and some >nice subtle improvements to the game all round. Pity that you had so >much trouble with your controller, but at least it all worked out in >the end :D The replay controller is very cool, much better than before >as well. But it's amazing how much they could learn from Papy with >this stuff. > >Most glaring problems still: >- Graphics - hopefully fixed in GP4 > >- Menu system - Good in its day, but a pain now. Fixed in GP4 I think >as well. > >- Setups and setup defaults - still has a single default setup, and >seems to decide for itself which setup you want, regardless of which >one you used last. It should automatically save your changes and >remember your last one, ala GPL. It also still puts on new tyres after >you enter the pits, so you can't check wear unless you manually put >the old tyres back on. > >- Physics - Mostly there now, but it could still be improved upon IMO. >But a definite improvement over the original, the feel for the car is >there and the wet weather driving is pretty cool. > >One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. >Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game >wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have >been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. > >All in all, not too shabby. > >Rafe Mc >

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) writes: >One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. >Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game >wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have >been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. I was able to short-shift all the time. My shift button was screwed up, and would often cause me to shift 2 gears accidentally. If *I* could do it, I'm surprized *you* couldn't... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:14:18 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote: >Glad to hear you're as impressed as I was, it's very nicely put >together. Seems to fix *most* of the major flaws from gp3, and some Thank god I'm not the only one who likes it now.. yesterday people made fun of me on VROC when I told them I just played GP3 for 2 hours.. :) >Most glaring problems still: >- Graphics - hopefully fixed in GP4Yep, quite crappy gfx.. and allthough the user-made carshapes, carsets and stuff like that enhance the gfx a lot, it's the core gfx engine that sucks. Poor gfx demaning too much fps.. >- Menu system - Good in its day, but a pain now. Fixed in GP4 I think >as well. I seriously doubt that.. the menu would be improved in the addon. Its just as clumsy as in GP3 though, it hardly changed.. >- Physics - Mostly there now, but it could still be improved upon IMO. >But a definite improvement over the original, the feel for the car is >there and the wet weather driving is pretty cool. What I love about GP3 now is the ability to slide the car through a corner.. ultra-late braking, a bit of trailbraking, catching the slide.. it's like GPL! :D >One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. >Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game >wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have >been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. I have to test this.. I still have the problem that I sometimes can't shift when I want to - for example I can not downshift when I'm giving a bit of throttle. Now I know this is not a smart thing to do but sometimes I just WANT to - hey it should be my choice if I want to wreck the gearbox!! :) But is there a setup for this which I forgot? Cheers, Andre >All in all, not too shabby. > >Rafe Mc

On 21 Aug 2001 11:23:30 +0200, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote:

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>Ted <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > The big thing lacking in GP3 2000 is ofcourse the TCP/IP multiplayer. >> > What a shame, it would have been so great if this would have been >> > implemented. But I read some rumours about a user-made TCP/IP >> > multiplayer patch on the internet, so who knows.. >> > >> >> I played a 26 Lap 3 player TCP/IP multiplayer game the other night and it >> was brilliant. The option is there and it's not hard to find. > >But a 3 player race isn't the same anymore after getting used to 20+ >in GPL and N4. I had a blast in ICR2 racing modem to modem with a >friend of mine, but that's 4 years ago.

That's true Olav, you know how I love to kick your ass in the IGPLC league with 20 drivers on the road (ok, 19, you purists). But 3 players is better than nothing and I'd love to kick my friends ass in GP3 on Zandy.. So thanks for the update Ted.. I read GP3 2000 didn't support TCP/IP so I didn't even bother looking for it.. d'oh :) Andre

Hi! Andre Warringa wrote: > > Yep, quite crappy gfx.. and allthough the user-made carshapes, carsets > and stuff like that enhance the gfx a lot, it's the core gfx engine > that sucks. Poor gfx demaning too much fps.. > Actually, what I noticed with GP3 is, that in a multiple car situation it seems to be the AI calculations that drag the framerate down, and not the drawing of the cars itself. The more daring diving passes you try to pull off, the more the sytem bogs down, as the otherwise excellent AI tries to accomodate you. > > What I love about GP3 now is the ability to slide the car through a > corner.. ultra-late braking, a bit of trailbraking, catching the > slide.. it's like GPL! :D > That's great, and something that was available in GP3 only through Advanced Physics Editor. The default tyres are too stiff IMHO in GP3, this update seems to do a better job then. -Gregor

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:30:23 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: >Cancel that last post of mine.... > >Just tried GPL with LWFF on ID#1, and FF works. Don't know why it didn't before. Oh >well. All 3 (GPL, F1RC and GP3) work under this same configuration. Great, first you let me think for half an hour after your previous post, now I read it allready works :D Well ok, problem solved then :) Andre

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:28:35 +0200, Gregor Veble <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi! > >Andre Warringa wrote: >> >> Yep, quite crappy gfx.. and allthough the user-made carshapes, carsets >> and stuff like that enhance the gfx a lot, it's the core gfx engine >> that sucks. Poor gfx demaning too much fps.. >> > >Actually, what I noticed with GP3 is, that in a multiple car situation >it seems to be the AI calculations that drag the framerate down, and not >the drawing of the cars itself. The more daring diving passes you try to >pull off, the more the sytem bogs down, as the otherwise excellent AI >tries to accomodate you.

Interesting, sounds obious now that you mention it :) But what I meant was - compare the graphics of F1RC (drool) to the graphics of GP3.. F1RC looks so much better and is much more fps friendly.. now I can imagine the F1RC AI doesn't require any cpu cycles at all, but still.. Andre

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>> What I love about GP3 now is the ability to slide the car through a >> corner.. ultra-late braking, a bit of trailbraking, catching the >> slide.. it's like GPL! :D >> > >That's great, and something that was available in GP3 only through >Advanced Physics Editor. The default tyres are too stiff IMHO in GP3, >this update seems to do a better job then. > >-Gregor

> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater I'm not trying to flame or anything. But, after reading your review, GP3 2000 still needed aftermarket add-ons to be enjoyable. It seems like to me that you would have been better off just getting the web add-ons and saving your money. I did not read anything in your review that makes me want to find (if I even still have it) and install it on my computer. Much less buy the add-on. An add-on should not have to be patched by aftermarket people! They should have fixed all of the things that the guy's on the web have addressed. Once again, I'm not trying to flame.

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:59:07 GMT, "jalo" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater > >I'm not trying to flame or anything. But, after reading your review, GP3 >2000 still needed aftermarket add-ons to be enjoyable. It seems like to me >that you would have been better off just getting the web add-ons and saving >your money. I did not read anything in your review that makes me want to >find (if I even still have it) and install it on my computer. Much less buy >the add-on. An add-on should not have to be patched by aftermarket people! >They should have fixed all of the things that the guy's on the web have >addressed. Once again, I'm not trying to flame.

Hey no offence taken :) As I wrote here, this is how GP3 should have been released in the first place. And yes, there is still lots of room for improvement. I can't wait for all the mods to work with GP3 2000 so I can install better looking cars, better sounds, the Gpxxx(?) utility with all it's improvements.. I can't really answer the question how close a user-upgraded GP3 comes to GP3 2000. I never tried them since I disliked GP3 so much. Now I simply love it. I don't know all the exact bits that were changed in the addon.. at least the cars drive much better and I have lots more control of the car.. Perhaps the same results can me achieved with the GP3 physics editor, I don't know. Anyway, the addon offers one great new feature which hasn't been made with an addon I believe: when a car wrecks in front of you, you better avoid all the wheels, wings and other mess on the track, or it will damage your car too! Yesterday I drove into a wheel lying on the track, my wing broke off, the wheel flew in the air again because I hit it.. great feature, and I don't believe this was done before in another racing sim. If you want to buy/download the addon, thats your choice. I merely posted the review for all the people that hated GP3 just as much as I did, to tell them that it's actually a very good sim now. If the same results can be gotten with usermade addons, that's even better! And your point about addons: You're right, it's sad that some user addons are -needed- to iron out bugs that are in the game. But be glad it's possible to make addons, because usermade addons are allways better than the original game.. look at all the addons for GPL.. the new car- and trackgraphics are so much better than the originals, not to even mention all the usermade tracks.. Andre

Hey Andre, You should know by now the Vroc is a tuff audience!! lol :) "Andre Warringa" wrote: | Thank god I'm not the only one who likes it now.. yesterday people | made fun of me on VROC when I told them I just played GP3 for 2 | hours.. :) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

<snip> > One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. > Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game > wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have > been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. > > All in all, not too shabby.<snip> I still have that problem with my LWFF but with downshifting, at first I thought the left paddle switch was going but it works ok until I downshift in rapid succsession. In the gear change setup box it says 'Gear throttle link is on' which I think is the problem but the only way I can turn it 'off' is assingning a button for downshift. I haven't seen any complaints from LWFF users about this so hopefully someone can straighten it out for me as it's undriveable for me in this config. btw, that was a really good review Andre, Thanks. DN

Same problem here David... you can avoid it somewhat by having bigger gaps between the lower gears than the higher ones. No fix I know of, although I haven't looked hard. That said, the GP3 2000 add-on is indeed a nice addition. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "David Noe" wrote...

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> > <snip> > I still have that problem with my LWFF but with downshifting, > at first I thought the left paddle switch was going but it > works ok until I downshift in rapid succsession. In the gear > change setup box it says 'Gear throttle link is on' which I > think is the problem but the only way I can turn it 'off' > is assingning a button for downshift. I haven't seen any > complaints from LWFF users about this so hopefully someone > can straighten it out for me as it's undriveable for me in > this config. > > btw, that was a really good review Andre, Thanks. > > DN

On 21 Aug 2001 15:23:10 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) writes: > >>One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. >>Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game >>wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have >>been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. > >I was able to short-shift all the time. My shift button was screwed up, and >would often cause me to shift 2 gears accidentally. If *I* could do it, I'm >surprized *you* couldn't... >

The problem is that it was never consistent. Sometimes I could short shift fine, other times I really wanted to be out of 1st, into 2nd early, but it wouldn't let me until I had more revs on board. It'd just dip the clutch then release, which made it worse!!! The other times are in the wet, when too many revs is a difficult proposition for getting the power down. But I've found it to be pretty much spot on now with the addon anyway, so all's well that ends well. Rafe Mc

>>- Menu system - Good in its day, but a pain now. Fixed in GP4 I think >>as well. > >I seriously doubt that.. the menu would be improved in the addon. Its >just as clumsy as in GP3 though, it hardly changed.. >I agree, the menu system is still pretty much the same in the addon. I was meaning that it will supposedly be completely re-made for GP4, when it comes out in a year or so. >What I love about GP3 now is the ability to slide the car through a >corner.. ultra-late braking, a bit of trailbraking, catching the >slide.. it's like GPL! :D Man, the only sliding I get at the moment is at the front tyres, heading toward the grass :P Need to tweak those default setups (or D/l something decent). Something I never played around with in GP3, cos the game frustrated me too much. But I have a lot more patience for it now, especially with the updated diff settings it allows. The trail braking and catching the car is a definite plus now, just more fun all round.

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>>One good thing I forgot about was the annoying gear changes in GP3. >>Many times I wanted to short shift exiting a corner, but the game >>wouldn't let me until I had more revs up. Well, that seems to have >>been fixed now, so manual actually means a manual gearbox. > >I have to test this.. I still have the problem that I sometimes can't >shift when I want to - for example I can not downshift when I'm giving >a bit of throttle. Now I know this is not a smart thing to do but >sometimes I just WANT to - hey it should be my choice if I want to >wreck the gearbox!! :) >But is there a setup for this which I forgot?

There is, you may have "gear change is linked to throttle" checked in the controllers section. Occasionally I do this myself if I've overcooked a corner and am stuck in too high a gear - you want to be able to drop down a gear while still accelerating. Like I said, if you choose "manual gearbox", that's exactly what it should be, without GP3 putting it's $0.02 worth in. Rafe Mc

Do both of you have the addon and still have the same problem? Or are you talking about GP3's messing of this up. For me anyway, this has all been fixed with the addon. I'm pretty sure you need to have two buttons assigned to remove the "gear change linked to throttle" thing, one for upchanges, one for downchanges. The only way to go IMO. Rafe Mc On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:12:07 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Same problem here David... you can avoid it somewhat by having bigger gaps >between the lower gears than the higher ones. > >No fix I know of, although I haven't looked hard. > >That said, the GP3 2000 add-on is indeed a nice addition. > >Jan. >=--- >"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. > >"David Noe" wrote... >> > <snip> >> I still have that problem with my LWFF but with downshifting, >> at first I thought the left paddle switch was going but it >> works ok until I downshift in rapid succsession. In the gear >> change setup box it says 'Gear throttle link is on' which I >> think is the problem but the only way I can turn it 'off' >> is assingning a button for downshift. I haven't seen any >> complaints from LWFF users about this so hopefully someone >> can straighten it out for me as it's undriveable for me in >> this config. >> >> btw, that was a really good review Andre, Thanks. >> >> DN >

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > I can't really answer the question how close a user-upgraded GP3 comes > to GP3 2000. I never tried them since I disliked GP3 so much. > Now I simply love it. I don't know all the exact bits that were > changed in the addon.. at least the cars drive much better and I have > lots more control of the car.. Perhaps the same results can me > achieved with the GP3 physics editor, I don't know. >

Maybe you grew older? Or your holiday did you good? ;-) Would be nice if you could try the original GP3 once more for reference. Now you are comparing actual experience with memory. Bart

In article <NNcg7.15982$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > >About �13 in the UK. That it? Hmmm. Probably $20ish around here. GP3 is at $15 or less...I might have to go shopping for a couple new boxes. -Tim

Aaaaaahhh... now I remember what its intended use is. So it was possible to shift up and down on those 1-button Amiga joysticks. Geoff should have gotten rid of that ages ago, IMO. The gears are assigned to the two paddles on my LWFF (same as Dino I would imagine). This gear/throttle stuff just doesn't turn off. Have to admit I reversed the standard configuration, i.e. I shift up with the right paddle and down with the left. I was talking about GP3, but it's there in the add-on for me as well. For example when one mistimes the downshift into the last turn at Hungaroring the gearbox "sticks" in 3rd. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Rafe McAuliffe" wrote ...

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> Do both of you have the addon and still have the same > problem? Or are you talking about GP3's messing of this > up. For me anyway, this has all been fixed with the addon. > > I'm pretty sure you need to have two buttons assigned to > remove the "gear change linked to throttle" thing, one > for upchanges, one for downchanges. The only way to go IMO.

> And your point about addons: You're right, it's sad that some user > addons are -needed- to iron out bugs that are in the game. But be glad > it's possible to make addons, because usermade addons are allways > better than the original game.. look at all the addons for GPL.. the > new car- and trackgraphics are so much better than the originals, not > to even mention all the usermade tracks.. I guess the one question I need to ask, did they put in an automatic clutch? In GP3 when shifting manually, you had to press in the clutch, or the car would stay in gear, and continue to roll in 1st gear, even when stopped, which for me made it impossible to drive Monaco. I enjoyed the "feel" of the cars in the game, but there were a couple of things that were very big negitives. The non-auto clutch, the AI (I felt they were on rails), the "this game feels like its running in DOS mode", and the lack of a decent joystick routine (which suprised me, I thought it would be so much easier to use the windows direct input). But all that said, I thought it was the most enjoyable modern F1 sim to drive (it was impossible to race, :-)).

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:31:53 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote:

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>There is, you may have "gear change is linked to throttle" checked in >the controllers section. Occasionally I do this myself if I've >overcooked a corner and am stuck in too high a gear - you want to be >able to drop down a gear while still accelerating. Like I said, if you >choose "manual gearbox", that's exactly what it should be, without GP3 >putting it's $0.02 worth in. > >Rafe Mc

God I HATE this bloody control menu - underneath the Gear selections (I have controller A fire 1 for down, A fire 2 for up) is indeed a message "gear change is linked to throttle". But I can't turn this off. When I choose keys instead for my gear up/down, the "gear change is linked to throttle" message goes away. And I also can't find the option "manual gearbox", where can I select that? Sorry that I sound so frustrated, but err.. I'm frustrated :) Andre

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:01:07 GMT, "David Noe" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I still have that problem with my LWFF but with downshifting, at first I >thought the left paddle switch was going but it works ok until I downshift >in rapid succsession. In the gear change setup box it says 'Gear throttle >link is on' which I think is the problem but the only way I can turn it >'off' is assingning a button for downshift. I haven't seen any complaints >from LWFF users about this so hopefully someone can straighten it out for me >as it's undriveable for me in this config.

You mean 'assigning a key for downshift' instead of a fire button right? I have the same problem :( >btw, that was a really good review Andre, Thanks. Thanks :D Andre >DN >

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:11:36 +0200, "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe you grew older? Or your holiday did you good? ;-) Ah, I was expecting a cynical comment from you since I made fun if you playing GP3 once in a while :)) >Would be nice if you could try the original GP3 once more for reference. Now >you are comparing actual experience with memory. True, but I don't feel like downloading and installing all the utilities for GP3 just to try it. I hope someone who has played a modified GP3 will post his opinions about GP3 2000 here so we can see if it's worth buying the addon, or that all the user-made patches enhance GP3 to the same level (allthough there is no user-made crash-with-debris patch I believe, which is a new and great feature of the addon). Besides, I never could get my CH pedals working with GP3, in GP3 2000 it even took me 3 hours and an external utility to get it all working, NO WAY I'm going to try it again in GP3 :) See you at the LAN this weekend Bart, Andre >Bart >

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:47:53 GMT, "jalo" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I guess the one question I need to ask, did they put in an automatic clutch? Uhh someone corect me if I'm wrong, but yes, the clutch is automatic, allthough you can also use a button as a clutch. A 'trick' to use the clutch while still using auto-clutch at the start is to keep the 1st gear pressed. As soon as you let go of the 1st gear button, you drop the clutch and off you go. >In GP3 when shifting manually, you had to press in the clutch, or the car >would stay in gear, and continue to roll in 1st gear, even when stopped, >which for me made it impossible to drive Monaco. The same problem is still in the addon, in first gear you automatically start to roll. But the only point where this is a tad clumsy is at the hairpin at monaco. Just press the brakes a little bit there to stop the rolling. >I enjoyed the "feel" of the cars in the game, but there were a couple of >things that were very big negitives. The non-auto clutch, the AI (I felt >they were on rails) The AI is gooood and definately NOT on riding on rails, they weave to the left and right, blocking you in every possible way :) As Ruud van Gaal said in a post today, you can improve AI untill you die so I'm sure the AI will do something funny once in a while. But GP3 2000 has simply the best AI ever seen so far in a racing sim. It's simply major fun racing against them. They are smarter than the average VROC-er :D >, the "this game feels like its running in DOS mode", and Lol yes I know what you mean :) As I said, the graphics still feel 'old'. Some annoying clipping problems in the replays, sometimes you see cars when they are behind hills :( >the lack of a decent joystick routine (which suprised me, I thought it would >be so much easier to use the windows direct input). But all that said, I For most the new routine of GP3 2000 seems to work, but as you read, it took me quite some effort to get it working with my LWFF/CH combo. >thought it was the most enjoyable modern F1 sim to drive (it was impossible >to race, :-)). I hope I made it clear it -is- possible to race and have even very good races too :) Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > True, but I don't feel like downloading and installing all the > utilities for GP3 just to try it. I hope someone who has played a > modified GP3 will post his opinions about GP3 2000 here so we can see > if it's worth buying the addon, or that all the user-made patches > enhance GP3 to the same level (allthough there is no user-made > crash-with-debris patch I believe, which is a new and great feature of > the addon).

From what I have read about it now, I think at least the physics changes, debris crash (not sure I like this!), and controller setup are really new. Sound & display were enhanced by GPxPatch but probably still improved by the update. I will buy it when it gets out. Also I think things look promising for GP4 now :) Bart

Ahh, you're quite right, the "linked to throttle" part seems to stay if you choose a controller button, but goes if you choose keys instead. I'm not 100% sure, but if you you choose two buttons for gear change, you'll get the same operation as 2 keys, even though the link is supposedly on. I thought you may have been using one button for changing both up and down (seemed strange but fitted the bill) but I think that's about all you can do. You can select manual or auto gears in the options-driver aids section, or by hitting F2 while in car. But you're forced to use manual anyway I think if you're on pro mode. So I guess you've got it about as good as it'll get :) Rafe Mc On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:40:57 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:31:53 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe >McAuliffe) wrote: > >>There is, you may have "gear change is linked to throttle" checked in >>the controllers section. Occasionally I do this myself if I've >>overcooked a corner and am stuck in too high a gear - you want to be >>able to drop down a gear while still accelerating. Like I said, if you >>choose "manual gearbox", that's exactly what it should be, without GP3 >>putting it's $0.02 worth in. >> >>Rafe Mc > >God I HATE this bloody control menu - underneath the Gear selections >(I have controller A fire 1 for down, A fire 2 for up) is indeed a >message "gear change is linked to throttle". But I can't turn this >off. When I choose keys instead for my gear up/down, the "gear change >is linked to throttle" message goes away. >And I also can't find the option "manual gearbox", where can I select >that? >Sorry that I sound so frustrated, but err.. I'm frustrated :) > >Andre

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:25:21 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote: <snip> >So I guess you've got it about as good as it'll get :) > >Rafe Mc Ow.. but that means I can't change gears when I want to, I can only shift down when I release the throttle.. allthough -sometimes- I can shift down while accelerating. It's not clear to me when I can and when I can't. Is this realistic? Perhaps real F1 cars have this too as some kind of safety? Or can we consider this as a bug? Andre

Real F1 cars do (or at least, did, up until Barcelona this season, when shifting became automatic in most cases) have such safety measures. While the F1 driver did need to initiate a gear change, or a sequence of gear changes, it could be overriden by the software in order not to cause damage to the engine. Besides, if you are in the need to shift to a lower gear while on the throttle, you've most likely made a mistake much before that :). -Gregor Andre Warringa wrote: > > Is this realistic? Perhaps real F1 cars have this too as some kind of > safety? Or can we consider this as a bug? > > Andre

Andre i still think you should try Gp3 with the 3 or 4 essential addons before you rave too much about the 2000 addon. GPxPatch, 2001 graphic pack and various sound event packs transform the GP3 experience. I know I've got a framerate issue with 2000, but I can't see anything in it that improves on Gp3. Iain "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:59:07 GMT, "jalo" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater > > > >I'm not trying to flame or anything. But, after reading your review, GP3 > >2000 still needed aftermarket add-ons to be enjoyable. It seems like to

me > >that you would have been better off just getting the web add-ons andsaving > >your money. I did not read anything in your review that makes me want to > >find (if I even still have it) and install it on my computer. Much lessbuy > >the add-on. An add-on should not have to be patched by aftermarketpeople!

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> >They should have fixed all of the things that the guy's on the web have > >addressed. Once again, I'm not trying to flame. > > Hey no offence taken :) > As I wrote here, this is how GP3 should have been released in the > first place. And yes, there is still lots of room for improvement. I > can't wait for all the mods to work with GP3 2000 so I can install > better looking cars, better sounds, the Gpxxx(?) utility with all it's > improvements.. > > I can't really answer the question how close a user-upgraded GP3 comes > to GP3 2000. I never tried them since I disliked GP3 so much. > Now I simply love it. I don't know all the exact bits that were > changed in the addon.. at least the cars drive much better and I have > lots more control of the car.. Perhaps the same results can me > achieved with the GP3 physics editor, I don't know. > > Anyway, the addon offers one great new feature which hasn't been made > with an addon I believe: when a car wrecks in front of you, you better > avoid all the wheels, wings and other mess on the track, or it will > damage your car too! Yesterday I drove into a wheel lying on the > track, my wing broke off, the wheel flew in the air again because I > hit it.. great feature, and I don't believe this was done before in > another racing sim. > > If you want to buy/download the addon, thats your choice. I merely > posted the review for all the people that hated GP3 just as much as I > did, to tell them that it's actually a very good sim now. If the same > results can be gotten with usermade addons, that's even better! > > And your point about addons: You're right, it's sad that some user > addons are -needed- to iron out bugs that are in the game. But be glad > it's possible to make addons, because usermade addons are allways > better than the original game.. look at all the addons for GPL.. the > new car- and trackgraphics are so much better than the originals, not > to even mention all the usermade tracks.. > > Andre

I don't think the FF has changed much from the v1.13 patch (I assume Andre is talking pre-patch), however the handling feel of the cars has been either subtlely tweaked or altered by the apperently more detailed simulation of the differential. Like Andre I have a better feel for what the rear is doing and how much "bite" it's got off the corners. On the whole I find the care more poised as well. However I am missing some "ooomph" in the player car as compared with GP3 + 2001 carset to the tune of some 1.5s per lap. Have you tried a real back to back with one of your GP3 setups yet, BTW? -They are compatible. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Iain Mackenzie" wrote...

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> Andre > i still think you should try Gp3 with the 3 or 4 essential > addons before you rave too much about the 2000 addon. > GPxPatch, 2001 graphic pack and various sound event packs > transform the GP3 experience. I know I've got a framerate > issue with 2000, but I can't see anything in it that > improves on Gp3. > Iain

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:07:02 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Andre >i still think you should try Gp3 with the 3 or 4 essential addons before you >rave too much about the 2000 addon. GPxPatch, 2001 graphic pack and various >sound event packs transform the GP3 experience. I know I've got a framerate >issue with 2000, but I can't see anything in it that improves on Gp3. >Iain As I said before.. (I use these words too often here lately :) I never could get my pedals working with GP3. Allthough it was still quite a hassle, I got them working now with the addon. Not much sense reinstalling GP3 and all the utilities when I can't get my pedals working. The addon has the collision with debris as a new feature, it's great. AI has been improved. Can't confirm this myself since I hardly tried GP3 but this is what all the GP3 freaks agree about. So.. all we need now is to get this GPxPatch and gfx packs working with GP3 2000 to get the GP3 as it should have been :) Andre

"Andre Warringa" > So.. all we need now is to get this GPxPatch and gfx packs working > with GP3 2000 to get the GP3 as it should have been :) > Andre, I share your disappointment with the original GP3, and after a brief look and your own comments as an established simmer on this group I am hopeful that GP3 2000 may be such a significant improvement to put it at the top of the tree. What interests me is this belief as to what GP should have been. I do believe we in RAS are a fairly small group that strives for the most accurate simulations, for which many fall short. I believe the hype of GP3 was largely caused within the group itself - I am as guilty as anyone here of being "desperate" for new and better sims! So I question whether we are representative of the complete audience any sim is marketed at, there are a lot of casual gamers out there who would consider GP3 to provide for all their needs. Therefore, I am really pleased if GP3 2000 does indeed answer a number of points raised here, particularly the physics, AI & sound. I am perfectly happy with the evolutionary process - although for sure I would prefer it was quicker :-) If you think about the millions spent on car manufacturing, yet we still get mass produced cars which fall short in certain areas which are addressed in facelifts, recalls etc. So maybe our expectations for sim launches are just a tad high, although I am sure we will not lower them - it is just the nature of our desire for better sims. Cheers Tony

>So I question whether we are representative of the complete audience any sim >is marketed at, there are a lot of casual gamers out there who would >consider GP3 to provide for all their needs. Going by the opinion of a number of mates who are into racing games, but not really seriously, they've all considered the original GP3 to be very good. However, they all think that the new addon is better. They don't really pick up any of the subtle differences, but they do generally see an improvement. So I think that this is the kind of opinion of the majority of casual gamers - they were pretty happy with the original, but just as pleased with the update. They weren't exactly screaming for it though. Rafe Mc

Hi all. Just to add my views on the expansion pack: I picked up a copy from amazon.de for 35.- DM (which is about 17USD). It shipped to me in three days (but I only live across the border in Switzerland). I'll say at first that I think it's worth the money as an expansion pack, but there are still many things left unfinished, or problems which just can't be corrected because it's built on such old code. The graphics are the same grainy images we are used to from GP3. I have always contended that I much prefer the palette of GP3 to other games, and if I looked beyond the blockiness of the graphics, the game still does an excellent job of capturing the feel of a race weekend. The other games are very accurate, but somehow sterile. Driving along the start/finish straight of Austria, with the sun playing off the cockpit and the mountains in the background, is still really quite nice in GP3. Still, the frame rate is locked, there are bizarre clipping problems due to the 2D/3D nature, trackside textures are not filtered, many objects are 2D sprites etc. etc. Overall it works, but it looks dated. I noticed a tab in the graphics menu which says "Use high detail track". I was hoping this was a secret option to load in F1RC tracks, but alas.... Having said all that, I think the improvements to the tracks in GP3-2000 are not trivial, and offer a much livelier environment than the GP3 track editors have managed with their hard work. To the editors' credit, they've still managed to get the nice adverts in the grass, something Microprose still misses. The camermen, extra cranes, fire marshalls etc. add a lot to the environment. With a few exceptions, they switch off all the raceday textures like crowds and photographers, but leave in the track workers so you feel you are a propoer FIA test session when you go for some practice laps. The extra detail doesn't really do anything to the framerate. The car textures available on the internet for free are much nicer. The driving model feels nice, and I find the cars harder to drive. I have to work a lot harder on turn-in and mid-corner to place the car where I want it for the exit, and this sounds a lot like what has been said about the modern F1. I've played a bit with the differential, and I can see it is going to be very important for wet-weather racing (which is still GP3's single ace against the other sims). The AI is improved, but it was already the class of the genre before. The addition of debris collisions is a great feature, and it is surprising that it hasn't been implemented before. Then again, looking at the CPU requirements to keep track of all those flying bits, and to make the 21 other drivers react, I can see perhaps why it hasn't. If you thought it was hard to thread your way through an accident before, it will be an eye-opener now. However, the downside is that if all hell breaks loose at Ste Devote, even if you're way up the road and can't see what's going on, your processor occupancy will shoot up as the computer tries to sort out the carnage. It really depends on the magnitude of the accident. Most races I hum along with a processor occupancy of 50-70%, but have seen it peak at 250% as I came out of La Source ("what's going on? Did Norton AV just magically restart itseld and kick in?"), and the answer came as I crested the hill after Eau Rouge to find 14 cars strewn across the track, with wheels still bouncing. The replay showed that it was triggered by a lead car losing losing the back end at the crest. The rest of the cars did their best to avoid both the cars and the flying debris (again, nice AI), but without luck. So there's always a catch - nice AI and debris collisions, but at a CPU cost. The sound is nothing remarkable. Same as you get with GPxPatch. The pit radio is terrible. If you break a wing, half a lap later some little weed says "er... try to get back". Ground-breaking it isn't. Would it be so hard for them to drop in a few tactical messages, like "Coulthard is pitting"? Oh, my pitcrew sometimes disappears. It's bizarre, but on some pitstops, there is just a lonely jack man, and on others, the whole crew is there. The quicklaps feature (hot-lapping) is actually quite nice, but again, with an unfinished quality that irritates. Again, is it nothing new, as lots of GP games and sims allow you to do a timed lap without doing the outlap, but it is certainly an improvement from GP3 if your just want to try a fast lap. *However*, as far as I can tell, you can only do it in sunny, dry weather. Dohhh! Nice one, Crammond. You have a killer weather system, but don't make full use of it. Perhaps a group of friends want to determine who is really the "Regenmeister" on a swamped Spa. And the interface is so clunky, that it is hopeless to try different setups. Here would have been the perfect opportunity to build a game mode which would have allowed seamless and quick transition from the car setup screen to the track, warm and ready to go, but Microprose dropped the ball. The "virtual cockpit" is no different than in GP3, only a different set of textures. Again, the free downloads from the internet are better. Thinking again about tracks, Indy and Sepang look quite nice, though. So, as I liked GP3, I like GP3-2000 for less than 20 bucks. I have a rather low-spec computer, so I have never been able to wring the most out of the other sims anyway, but I always found the racing in GP3 nicer. As an expansion pack, it works well, and offers more than just new liveries, as one would get in a "new" football game each year. However, the base structure is wearing thin, and Crammond et al. will have to work hard to give GP4 a fighting chance. Stephen Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cNKh7.55748$[email hidden]... > Andre > i still think you should try Gp3 with the 3 or 4 essential addons beforeyou > rave too much about the 2000 addon. GPxPatch, 2001 graphic pack andvarious > sound event packs transform the GP3 experience. I know I've got aframerate

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> issue with 2000, but I can't see anything in it that improves on Gp3. > Iain > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:59:07 GMT, "jalo" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >> GP 3 2000 - Review of a GP3 hater > > > > > >I'm not trying to flame or anything. But, after reading your review,

GP3 > > >2000 still needed aftermarket add-ons to be enjoyable. It seems like to > me > > >that you would have been better off just getting the web add-ons and > saving > > >your money. I did not read anything in your review that makes me wantto

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> > >find (if I even still have it) and install it on my computer. Much less > buy > > >the add-on. An add-on should not have to be patched by aftermarket > people! > > >They should have fixed all of the things that the guy's on the web have > > >addressed. Once again, I'm not trying to flame. > > > > Hey no offence taken :) > > As I wrote here, this is how GP3 should have been released in the > > first place. And yes, there is still lots of room for improvement. I > > can't wait for all the mods to work with GP3 2000 so I can install > > better looking cars, better sounds, the Gpxxx(?) utility with all it's > > improvements.. > > > > I can't really answer the question how close a user-upgraded GP3 comes > > to GP3 2000. I never tried them since I disliked GP3 so much. > > Now I simply love it. I don't know all the exact bits that were > > changed in the addon.. at least the cars drive much better and I have > > lots more control of the car.. Perhaps the same results can me > > achieved with the GP3 physics editor, I don't know. > > > > Anyway, the addon offers one great new feature which hasn't been made > > with an addon I believe: when a car wrecks in front of you, you better > > avoid all the wheels, wings and other mess on the track, or it will > > damage your car too! Yesterday I drove into a wheel lying on the > > track, my wing broke off, the wheel flew in the air again because I > > hit it.. great feature, and I don't believe this was done before in > > another racing sim. > > > > If you want to buy/download the addon, thats your choice. I merely > > posted the review for all the people that hated GP3 just as much as I > > did, to tell them that it's actually a very good sim now. If the same > > results can be gotten with usermade addons, that's even better! > > > > And your point about addons: You're right, it's sad that some user > > addons are -needed- to iron out bugs that are in the game. But be glad > > it's possible to make addons, because usermade addons are allways > > better than the original game.. look at all the addons for GPL.. the > > new car- and trackgraphics are so much better than the originals, not > > to even mention all the usermade tracks.. > > > > Andre > >