What should I upgrade ?

I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while waiting for GTL ?? AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) 1024m ram ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) MSI KT4AV mobo Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while waiting for GTL ?? AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) 1024m ram ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) MSI KT4AV mobo Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

V \"fnugen\" wrote:

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, > what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively > to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while > waiting for GTL ?? > > AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) > 1024m ram > ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) > MSI KT4AV mobo > > Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than > anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another > 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a > difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

The answer is simple, don't upgrade You have a nicely balanced system with no obvious bottlenecks, save the money for a total system upgrade at a later date at which point you'll be going PCI-E anyways, so a new vid card now would be a bit wasted, as for memory, few games take advantage of 1024, I doubt you'd see a noticeable performance increase by adding another 512 unless you run a test program with umpteen decimals :) Save your money for the Socket 939, AMD64-X2Radeon X8xx PCI-E upgrade that lurks somewhere in your future :) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

Hold onto that $64 and save it till ya have enough for either a better card. http://search.ebay.com/6800-gt_W0QQftsZ0 or an XP3200+ cpu. I'd throw an Athlon XP 3200+ at that MSI KT4AV for $120 (w/bios upg) (www.pricewatch.com) and OC as much as possible (maybe just get a good fan h/s as well to help oc'ing). Or better yet a dual core 64 mobo/cpu combo but thats far beyond a $64 budget ;) Nothing beats cpu cycles and that sempron is a budget cpu so really the best investment/performance ratio so in your case is the XP3200+ is your best bet. 9800/128 isnt that much slower than an x800/256 at lower res's and you should also OC it amap. You won't see hardly any difference going to 2gigs of ram. You could make up the performance difference by tweaking XP following black vipers excellent guide. Mitch "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zLg%e.2829$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (14 lines)

>I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, what >is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively to at >least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while waiting for >GTL ?? > > AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) > 1024m ram > ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) > MSI KT4AV mobo > > Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than anything, > but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another 512m ram > seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a difference to > warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

I'd be surprised if any more ram would make a difference over your current 1024meg Nigel "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zLg%e.2829$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, > what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively > to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while > waiting for GTL ?? > > AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) > 1024m ram > ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) > MSI KT4AV mobo > > Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than > anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another > 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a > difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

Nigel Nichols wrote:

Quoted text (25 lines)

> I'd be surprised if any more ram would make a difference over your current > 1024meg > > Nigel > > "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zLg%e.2829$[email hidden]... > >>I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, >>what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively >>to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while >>waiting for GTL ?? >> >>AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) >>1024m ram >>ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) >>MSI KT4AV mobo >> >>Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than >>anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another >>512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a >>difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas?? > > >

Thanks guys. I will try to search out an Athlon xp 3200+. Failing finding anything local, I will just wait and do an entire upgrade when the time is right. This is not dire, just thought while the release date of GTL has not been announced for NA.....might as well get ready. The demo runs pretty good as is, just want the game to run as good as possible given my setup. Thanks again.

Quoted text (23 lines)

> I'd be surprised if any more ram would make a difference over your current > 1024meg > Nigel >>I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, >>what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively >>to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while >>waiting for GTL ?? >>AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) >>1024m ram >>ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) >>MSI KT4AV mobo >>Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than >>anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another >>512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a >>difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

Thanks guys. I will try to search out an Athlon xp 3200+. Failing finding anything local, I will just wait and do an entire upgrade when the time is right. This is not dire, just thought while the release date of GTL has not been announced for NA.....might as well get ready. The demo runs pretty good as is, just want the game to run as good as possible given my setup. Thanks again.

"Goy Larsen" wrote... >> <sanip> > The answer is simple, don't upgrade > <snip> What Goy said. This year I bought a similar base system 2nd hand, added the RAM, an OEM 9800 card from an overstock sale and a less noisy CPU cooler (already had a beefier PSU) cheaply to match your specs and I am sitting it out for another couple months (might make it another year). It still runs GTR and GTL fine, in my book as well as, rather amazingly IMO, the recent F.E.A.R. demo (viewing that as a good sign towards getting Half Life 2 on budget when that comes out). Jan. =---

V "fnugen" wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, > what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively > to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while > waiting for GTL ?? > > AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) > 1024m ram > ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) > MSI KT4AV mobo > > Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than > anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another > 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a > difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

Welcome to the System Performance netherworld! As several others say, you're not badly off as is. The 9800 hardly a wimpy card. I don't know if a cost-effective upgrade exists. One of those 12 or 16 pipeline cards would certainly be faster, but I'd be cautious of pouring $300+ into an AGP video card that will probably wind up CPU bound to some degree. The 6600 series is a bit (30%??) faster, but is that worth $150+? On the CPU front, one of the XP-M Barton based cores makes some sense. For around $85 you'd _probably_ wind up with a chip that will overclock to 2300~2400 MHz, with the extra 256K cache adding ~100 MHz worth of performance. These chips don't run any faster than 2.0G stock, but have unlocked multiplier circuitry that allows agressive overclocking. The chips are inherently overclockable, and most users get ~2.3G without relying on crazy voltage levels. Is a ~20% performance bost with $85?? If you're antsy to get a bit more speed, you could probably overclock the vidcard and CPU by ~10% each without much effort. If your 9800 is anything like my ATI card, a larger-than-stock heatsink will probably help. My 2nd hand Dull 9700TX (263 stock) went from 310 to 355MHz max stable OC with the addition of one of those big Zalman 700 series thingies. 14% is only a few more frames, but it does make a noticeabe improvement during those back-of-the-grid situations. Likewise, your Mobo will probably run it's CPU bus a bit faster than the official 166/333 top speed. 182/364MHz would be 10%, and it's probably achievable for free! Good luck! -Greg (Fellow middle-of-nowhere inhabitant: 1.9G AMD, R9700@355, 1GB.)

Greg Campbell wrote:

Quoted text (54 lines)

> V "fnugen" wrote: > >> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, >> what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now >> inexpensively to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, >> RBR) while waiting for GTL ?? >> >> AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) >> 1024m ram >> ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) >> MSI KT4AV mobo >> >> Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than >> anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another >> 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a >> difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas?? > > > > Welcome to the System Performance netherworld! > > As several others say, you're not badly off as is. > > The 9800 hardly a wimpy card. I don't know if a cost-effective upgrade > exists. One of those 12 or 16 pipeline cards would certainly be faster, > but I'd be cautious of pouring $300+ into an AGP video card that will > probably wind up CPU bound to some degree. The 6600 series is a bit > (30%??) faster, but is that worth $150+? > > On the CPU front, one of the XP-M Barton based cores makes some sense. > For around $85 you'd _probably_ wind up with a chip that will overclock > to 2300~2400 MHz, with the extra 256K cache adding ~100 MHz worth of > performance. These chips don't run any faster than 2.0G stock, but have > unlocked multiplier circuitry that allows agressive overclocking. The > chips are inherently overclockable, and most users get ~2.3G without > relying on crazy voltage levels. Is a ~20% performance bost with $85?? > > > If you're antsy to get a bit more speed, you could probably overclock > the vidcard and CPU by ~10% each without much effort. > > If your 9800 is anything like my ATI card, a larger-than-stock heatsink > will probably help. My 2nd hand Dull 9700TX (263 stock) went from 310 > to 355MHz max stable OC with the addition of one of those big Zalman 700 > series thingies. 14% is only a few more frames, but it does make a > noticeabe improvement during those back-of-the-grid situations. > > Likewise, your Mobo will probably run it's CPU bus a bit faster than the > official 166/333 top speed. 182/364MHz would be 10%, and it's probably > achievable for free! > > Good luck! > > -Greg (Fellow middle-of-nowhere inhabitant: 1.9G AMD, R9700@355, 1GB.)

I have never done any OC work and have always been wary of it as I always thought replacing a new part due to overheating was counter productive. I know asking here, how do I OC my vid card and CPU, would likely result in either a lengthy post, or a series of links. BUT........how would I go about overclocking to max the ability of the board, cpu and gpu ?! Are these all done in the CMOS?? I did buy an aftermarket fan and heatsink unit for my GPU with 4 extra heatsinks for the ram chips. It isn't a hugeass heatsink, but it is a ballbearing fan and copper heatsink, supposed to dissipate heat better ?!? Iceberq is the name of it. It was only $22, so it would not be a major hit if I were to replace it with larger heatsinks to accomodate a few more frames. Educate me !!

Quoted text (47 lines)

>> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, >> what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now >> inexpensively to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, >> RBR) while waiting for GTL ?? >> AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) >> 1024m ram >> ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) >> MSI KT4AV mobo >> Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than >> anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another >> 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a >> difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas?? > Welcome to the System Performance netherworld! > As several others say, you're not badly off as is. > The 9800 hardly a wimpy card. I don't know if a cost-effective upgrade > exists. One of those 12 or 16 pipeline cards would certainly be faster, > but I'd be cautious of pouring $300+ into an AGP video card that will > probably wind up CPU bound to some degree. The 6600 series is a bit > (30%??) faster, but is that worth $150+? > On the CPU front, one of the XP-M Barton based cores makes some sense. > For around $85 you'd _probably_ wind up with a chip that will overclock > to 2300~2400 MHz, with the extra 256K cache adding ~100 MHz worth of > performance. These chips don't run any faster than 2.0G stock, but have > unlocked multiplier circuitry that allows agressive overclocking. The > chips are inherently overclockable, and most users get ~2.3G without > relying on crazy voltage levels. Is a ~20% performance bost with $85?? > If you're antsy to get a bit more speed, you could probably overclock > the vidcard and CPU by ~10% each without much effort. > If your 9800 is anything like my ATI card, a larger-than-stock heatsink > will probably help. My 2nd hand Dull 9700TX (263 stock) went from 310 > to 355MHz max stable OC with the addition of one of those big Zalman 700 > series thingies. 14% is only a few more frames, but it does make a > noticeabe improvement during those back-of-the-grid situations. > Likewise, your Mobo will probably run it's CPU bus a bit faster than the > official 166/333 top speed. 182/364MHz would be 10%, and it's probably > achievable for free! > Good luck!

I have never done any OC work and have always been wary of it as I always thought replacing a new part due to overheating was counter productive. I know asking here, how do I OC my vid card and CPU, would likely result in either a lengthy post, or a series of links. BUT........how would I go about overclocking to max the ability of the board, cpu and gpu ?! Are these all done in the CMOS?? I did buy an aftermarket fan and heatsink unit for my GPU with 4 extra heatsinks for the ram chips. It isn't a hugeass heatsink, but it is a ballbearing fan and copper heatsink, supposed to dissipate heat better ?!? Iceberq is the name of it. It was only $22, so it would not be a major hit if I were to replace it with larger heatsinks to accomodate a few more frames. Educate me !!

V "fnugen" wrote: > I have never done any OC work and have always been wary of it as I > always thought replacing a new part due to overheating was counter > productive.... Well, since you're talking with replacing stuff anyway.... ;) Seriously, with adequate cooling and stock voltages, there is little risk of frying things during a bit of OC "foolin' around." OC probably reduces the component lifetime a little bit, but the actual amount is known only to the manufacturer. Even if you were to reduce lifespan by 50% (not likely, IMO, but I really don't know either.), will you care if your 10 year CPU dies after 5/? years?? Probably not. For your Radeon, it's all done with software. All you will need is this handy program http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/ Read the instructions and overview at http://www.techpowerup.com/wiki/doku.php/atitool/start If your videocard's heatsink is very warm or outright hot, I'd not push things too far. The chip will always be running warmer than the heatsink, and excess heat is hard on the chip's circuitry and solder joints. Since you've already replaced the minimal stock heatsink with an aftermarket job, you'll probably be fine, and a bigger unit wouldn't do a whole lot more for you. A quick search shows a 9800Pro OC potential of somewhere around 450MHz (18% over the 380 stock speed) for the core, with memory OC varying with the mem manufacturer. <Very short overview> You're right, system/CPU overclocking is largely a matter of tweaking BIOS settings. Bumping the front side bus to over 166/333 will speed up the CPU AND memory. Things get tricky when/if an error occurs, because you can't tell which is causing the problem. With an 'unlocked' CPU, you can changes the CPU core multiplier, and effectively OC the memory and CPU seperately. Your Sempr0n is 'locked,'so both must be increased together. When doing so, it's likely that your motherboard or the memory will poop out first. You may be able to push things by fidling with the memory timing values in he bios. This can screw things up fairly well, so don't go doing that until/unless you learn more. Look for a program called Prime95. It is fairly sensitive to CPU/memory stability issues, and features a "tourture test" designed to stress the system. If your box runs this for ~1/2 hour w/o issues, you're probably (not guaranteed!) in good shape. There are no guarantees with OC, but many people are comfortable with the risk/reward ratio. More later. Good luck! -Greg

Greg Campbell wrote:

Quoted text (61 lines)

> V "fnugen" wrote: > >> I have never done any OC work and have always been wary of it as I >> always thought replacing a new part due to overheating was counter >> productive.... > > > Well, since you're talking with replacing stuff anyway.... ;) > > Seriously, with adequate cooling and stock voltages, there is little > risk of frying things during a bit of OC "foolin' around." OC probably > reduces the component lifetime a little bit, but the actual amount is > known only to the manufacturer. Even if you were to reduce lifespan by > 50% (not likely, IMO, but I really don't know either.), will you care if > your 10 year CPU dies after 5/? years?? Probably not. > > > For your Radeon, it's all done with software. > > All you will need is this handy program > http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/ > Read the instructions and overview at > http://www.techpowerup.com/wiki/doku.php/atitool/start > > If your videocard's heatsink is very warm or outright hot, I'd not push > things too far. The chip will always be running warmer than the > heatsink, and excess heat is hard on the chip's circuitry and solder > joints. Since you've already replaced the minimal stock heatsink with > an aftermarket job, you'll probably be fine, and a bigger unit wouldn't > do a whole lot more for you. A quick search shows a 9800Pro OC > potential of somewhere around 450MHz (18% over the 380 stock speed) for > the core, with memory OC varying with the mem manufacturer. > > > <Very short overview> > You're right, system/CPU overclocking is largely a matter of tweaking > BIOS settings. Bumping the front side bus to over 166/333 will speed up > the CPU AND memory. Things get tricky when/if an error occurs, because > you can't tell which is causing the problem. > > With an 'unlocked' CPU, you can changes the CPU core multiplier, and > effectively OC the memory and CPU seperately. Your Sempr0n is > 'locked,'so both must be increased together. When doing so, it's likely > that your motherboard or the memory will poop out first. You may be > able to push things by fidling with the memory timing values in he bios. > This can screw things up fairly well, so don't go doing that > until/unless you learn more. > > Look for a program called Prime95. It is fairly sensitive to CPU/memory > stability issues, and features a "tourture test" designed to stress the > system. If your box runs this for ~1/2 hour w/o issues, you're probably > (not guaranteed!) in good shape. > > There are no guarantees with OC, but many people are comfortable with > the risk/reward ratio. > > More later. > > Good luck! > > -Greg

Thanks Greg. I installed and ran Prime95 for around 3hrs and at that point my system had passed every test. Now, the next step is actually bumping up the speed. Do I just go into my BIOS and incrementally turn up the speed until I get an error, or is there a proper way to do this? I haven't tested the vid card yet. That is going to happen tonight/tomorrow. I have to read up on that page and ATItool. Thanks again......much appreciate the helping hand and knowledge.

Quoted text (56 lines)

>> I have never done any OC work and have always been wary of it as I >> always thought replacing a new part due to overheating was counter >> productive.... > Well, since you're talking with replacing stuff anyway.... ;) > Seriously, with adequate cooling and stock voltages, there is little > risk of frying things during a bit of OC "foolin' around." OC probably > reduces the component lifetime a little bit, but the actual amount is > known only to the manufacturer. Even if you were to reduce lifespan by > 50% (not likely, IMO, but I really don't know either.), will you care if > your 10 year CPU dies after 5/? years?? Probably not. > For your Radeon, it's all done with software. > All you will need is this handy program > http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/ > Read the instructions and overview at > http://www.techpowerup.com/wiki/doku.php/atitool/start > If your videocard's heatsink is very warm or outright hot, I'd not push > things too far. The chip will always be running warmer than the > heatsink, and excess heat is *** the chip's circuitry and solder > joints. Since you've already replaced the minimal stock heatsink with > an aftermarket job, you'll probably be fine, and a bigger unit wouldn't > do a whole lot more for you. A quick search shows a 9800Pro OC > potential of somewhere around 450MHz (18% over the 380 stock speed) for > the core, with memory OC varying with the mem manufacturer. > <Very short overview> > You're right, system/CPU overclocking is largely a matter of tweaking > BIOS settings. Bumping the front side bus to over 166/333 will speed up > the CPU AND memory. Things get tricky when/if an error occurs, because > you can't tell which is causing the problem. > With an 'unlocked' CPU, you can changes the CPU core multiplier, and > effectively OC the memory and CPU seperately. Your Sempr0n is > 'locked,'so both must be increased together. When doing so, it's likely > that your motherboard or the memory will poop out first. You may be > able to push things by fidling with the memory timing values in he bios. > This can***things up fairly well, so don't go doing that > until/unless you learn more. > Look for a program called Prime95. It is fairly sensitive to CPU/memory > stability issues, and features a "tourture test" designed to stress the > system. If your box runs this for ~1/2 hour w/o issues, you're probably > (not guaranteed!) in good shape. > There are no guarantees with OC, but many people are comfortable with > the risk/reward ratio. > More later. > Good luck! > -Greg

Thanks Greg. I installed and ran Prime95 for around 3hrs and at that point my system had passed every test. Now, the next step is actually bumping up the speed. Do I just go into my BIOS and incrementally turn up the speed until I get an error, or is there a proper way to do this? I haven't tested the vid card yet. That is going to happen tonight/tomorrow. I have to read up on that page and ATItool. Thanks again......much appreciate the helping hand and knowledge.

V "fnugen" wrote: > Thanks Greg. I installed and ran Prime95 for around 3hrs and at that > point my system had passed every test. Now, the next step is actually > bumping up the speed. Do I just go into my BIOS and incrementally turn > up the speed until I get an error, or is there a proper way to do this? That's about it... Crank it up until something goes haywire.... ;) I can't help but think of a certain Calvin & Hobbes cartoon. Calvin asks Dad how they come up with the load ratings for small bridges. "5 tons or less" Dad explains that they just drive progressively heavier trucks over the bridge until it colapses, and then rebuild the bridge. ;) Go a few MHz at a time, run P95 for half an hour or more between speed bumps, and back off if you see any sign of wierdness. I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the (fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software. Memtest will catch nearly any memory bugs. P95 is a good indicator of overall stability, but is certainly not 100% correct. Always be on the lookout for funky behaviour. Another 'stress test' utility is http://downloads.pcworld.com/pub/new/utilities/system_resources_tune_up/stabilitytest.exe I just DL'd it and can't comment on it's usefulness, but it gets some good reviews. http://cpu.rightmark.org/ has several related utilities, including a Windoze based memory tester. > I haven't tested the vid card yet. That is going to happen > tonight/tomorrow. I have to read up on that page and ATItool. Thanks > again......much appreciate the helping hand and knowledge. Cool. The vidcard is the easiert to play with. I haven't used ATItools' auto-OC, and don't know how much it backs off when it finds errors. Make sure it winds up a safe distance (~15 MHz core, ~10 MHz memory) from whatever speed the error occured. You don't want to have to worry about the room temp going up a bit and the card getting flakey. Don't expect too much, and remember that ANY speedup you get is FREE! :) Let us know how it turns out! -Greg

I've tried memtest, prime95 and all those so-called stability programs but I've seen systems that pass all those for 24 hours and then crash when running something like HL2 or UT2004. My AMD64 system is overclocked and I've been running it fine for months (HL2, Doom3 etc) but recently rFactor was crashing on it every hour or so. I backed off the memory timing just a tad and it hasn't crashed since.

Steve Simpson wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I've tried memtest, prime95 and all those so-called stability programs > but I've seen systems that pass all those for 24 hours and then crash > when running something like HL2 or UT2004. > > My AMD64 system is overclocked and I've been running it fine for months > (HL2, Doom3 etc) but recently rFactor was crashing on it every hour or > so. I backed off the memory timing just a tad and it hasn't crashed > since.

I have my 2800+ (2g) running at 2.2g now according to Guillemot hardware inspector. I had it running for 6hrs and it cycled through a number of tests all with passes. I plan on running it through the night tonight while sleeping to be sure. I want to make sure my system is steady before attempting the vid card. Worse case is I set everything back to original settings..........the games worked, just trying to eek out that extra little bit. thanks guys

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I've tried memtest, prime95 and all those so-called stability programs > but I've seen systems that pass all those for 24 hours and then crash > when running something like HL2 or UT2004. > My AMD64 system is overclocked and I've been running it fine for months > (HL2, Doom3 etc) but recently rFactor was crashing on it every hour or > so. I backed off the memory timing just a tad and it hasn't crashed > since.

I have my 2800+ (2g) running at 2.2g now according to Guillemot hardware inspector. I had it running for 6hrs and it cycled through a number of tests all with passes. I plan on running it through the night tonight while sleeping to be sure. I want to make sure my system is steady before attempting the vid card. Worse case is I set everything back to original settings..........the games worked, just trying to eek out that extra little bit. thanks guys

Greg Campbell wrote:

Quoted text (55 lines)

> V "fnugen" wrote: > >> Thanks Greg. I installed and ran Prime95 for around 3hrs and at that >> point my system had passed every test. Now, the next step is actually >> bumping up the speed. Do I just go into my BIOS and incrementally turn >> up the speed until I get an error, or is there a proper way to do this? > > > That's about it... Crank it up until something goes haywire.... ;) > > I can't help but think of a certain Calvin & Hobbes cartoon. Calvin > asks Dad how they come up with the load ratings for small bridges. "5 > tons or less" Dad explains that they just drive progressively heavier > trucks over the bridge until it colapses, and then rebuild the bridge. ;) > > Go a few MHz at a time, run P95 for half an hour or more between speed > bumps, and back off if you see any sign of wierdness. > > I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run > a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org > You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer > startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory > errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the > (fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software. > > Memtest will catch nearly any memory bugs. P95 is a good indicator of > overall stability, but is certainly not 100% correct. Always be on the > lookout for funky behaviour. > > Another 'stress test' utility is > http://downloads.pcworld.com/pub/new/utilities/system_resources_tune_up/stabilitytest.exe > > I just DL'd it and can't comment on it's usefulness, but it gets some > good reviews. > > http://cpu.rightmark.org/ has several related utilities, including a > Windoze based memory tester. > > >> I haven't tested the vid card yet. That is going to happen >> tonight/tomorrow. I have to read up on that page and ATItool. Thanks >> again......much appreciate the helping hand and knowledge. > > > Cool. The vidcard is the easiert to play with. I haven't used > ATItools' auto-OC, and don't know how much it backs off when it finds > errors. Make sure it winds up a safe distance (~15 MHz core, ~10 MHz > memory) from whatever speed the error occured. You don't want to have > to worry about the room temp going up a bit and the card getting flakey. > > Don't expect too much, and remember that ANY speedup you get is FREE! :) > > Let us know how it turns out! > > -Greg

How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or does it take several hours for each test? The webpage suggested does not tell me roughly how long to expect it to test and come to a setting. Can somebody enlighten me??

Quoted text (50 lines)

>> Thanks Greg. I installed and ran Prime95 for around 3hrs and at that >> point my system had passed every test. Now, the next step is actually >> bumping up the speed. Do I just go into my BIOS and incrementally turn >> up the speed until I get an error, or is there a proper way to do this? > That's about it... Crank it up until something goes haywire.... ;) > I can't help but think of a certain Calvin & Hobbes cartoon. Calvin > asks Dad how they come up with the load ratings for small bridges. "5 > tons or less" Dad explains that they just drive progressively heavier > trucks over the bridge until it colapses, and then rebuild the bridge. ;) > Go a few MHz at a time, run P95 for half an hour or more between speed > bumps, and back off if you see any sign of wierdness. > I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run > a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org > You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer > startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory > errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the > (fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software. > Memtest will catch nearly any memory bugs. P95 is a good indicator of > overall stability, but is certainly not 100% correct. Always be on the > lookout for funky behaviour. > Another 'stress test' utility is > http://downloads.pcworld.com/pub/new/utilities/system_resources_tune_... > I just DL'd it and can't comment on it's usefulness, but it gets some > good reviews. > http://cpu.rightmark.org/ has several related utilities, including a > Windoze based memory tester. >> I haven't tested the vid card yet. That is going to happen >> tonight/tomorrow. I have to read up on that page and ATItool. Thanks >> again......much appreciate the helping hand and knowledge. > Cool. The vidcard is the easiert to play with. I haven't used > ATItools' auto-OC, and don't know how much it backs off when it finds > errors. Make sure it winds up a safe distance (~15 MHz core, ~10 MHz > memory) from whatever speed the error occured. You don't want to have > to worry about the room temp going up a bit and the card getting flakey. > Don't expect too much, and remember that ANY speedup you get is FREE! :) > Let us know how it turns out! > -Greg

How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or does it take several hours for each test? The webpage suggested does not tell me roughly how long to expect it to test and come to a setting. Can somebody enlighten me??

Greg Campbell wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run > a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org > You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer > startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory > errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the > (fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software.

I agree with everything that's been said up until this point, unless you mess around with ridiculous OC'ing numbers and voltage settings, the risk of hardware failure is slim to none, however the chances of a software failure is not to be overlooked While trying to OC my AMD64 I corrupted the Windows installation twice, now I've been around the block a few times so I use a spare HD with a basic Windows installation for most of my testing so that didn't bother me much but I feel a word of warning on this issue is in place, as with most things, back up important data before messing about with your PC Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

V "fnugen" wrote: > How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem > ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same > test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with > OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or does > it take several hours for each test? Hum... seems it should be faster than that. OTOH, I haven't used it much because it IS slow. (Gotta have that INSTANT gratification!) As it searches for max core/mem, the speed being tested is displayed at the top of the speed slider. It's greyed out, so it's easy to miss the vaules changing. Go ahead and do it manualy. Start 'scan for artifacts,' and bump the core by ~5mhz. Hit 'set clock' and wait a while (5~10 seconds or so). If no errors are reported, bump the speed again. When you start to get errors, back off 15~20 MHz and let it run for a while. If no further problems arise, you're probably close to where you want to be. Repeat for the memory, but use smaller increments, since it will probably not OC as well as the core. Just to stay remotely on topic, let us know how much the system OC helps your sim racing framerates. :) -Greg

Greg Campbell wrote:

Quoted text (27 lines)

> V "fnugen" wrote: > >> How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem >> ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same >> test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with >> OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or >> does it take several hours for each test? > > > Hum... seems it should be faster than that. OTOH, I haven't used it > much because it IS slow. (Gotta have that INSTANT gratification!) As > it searches for max core/mem, the speed being tested is displayed at the > top of the speed slider. It's greyed out, so it's easy to miss the > vaules changing. > > Go ahead and do it manualy. Start 'scan for artifacts,' and bump the > core by ~5mhz. Hit 'set clock' and wait a while (5~10 seconds or so). > If no errors are reported, bump the speed again. When you start to get > errors, back off 15~20 MHz and let it run for a while. If no further > problems arise, you're probably close to where you want to be. Repeat > for the memory, but use smaller increments, since it will probably not > OC as well as the core. > > Just to stay remotely on topic, let us know how much the system OC helps > your sim racing framerates. :) > > -Greg

I'll be sure to give it a good test tomorrow. Too late tonight, and after trying to bump up the clock settings, it seems once I hit the 2nd step, I get artifacts and errors. I am lucky to run at 378 core 357.75 mem. Seems rather low for this card doesn't it ?? Seems like it's not worth the effort to even bother. Are there any diag programs to test to make sure the card is entirely healthy to start with? I get no game freezes, no artifacts or anything unusual in games, so it seems fine, but I kind of expected what was a high end card to OC better than 2 steps.....but that is also inexperience talking. This is my first OC adventure. Will do a night back of grid test for FPS tomorrow.......if the bug doesn't grab me tonight. thanks again guys Verne

Quoted text (24 lines)

>> How long does it take ATItool to come up with the max core and max mem >> ?? I've had it running for 2hrs and so far other than running the same >> test and telling me "no errors for...." , I am no further ahead with >> OCing. Haven't even gotten to max mem yet. Am I being impatient or >> does it take several hours for each test? > Hum... seems it should be faster than that. OTOH, I haven't used it > much because it IS slow. (Gotta have that INSTANT gratification!) As > it searches for max core/mem, the speed being tested is displayed at the > top of the speed slider. It's greyed out, so it's easy to miss the > vaules changing. > Go ahead and do it manualy. Start 'scan for artifacts,' and bump the > core by ~5mhz. Hit 'set clock' and wait a while (5~10 seconds or so). > If no errors are reported, bump the speed again. When you start to get > errors, back off 15~20 MHz and let it run for a while. If no further > problems arise, you're probably close to where you want to be. Repeat > for the memory, but use smaller increments, since it will probably not > OC as well as the core. > Just to stay remotely on topic, let us know how much the system OC helps > your sim racing framerates. :) > -Greg

I'll be sure to give it a good test tomorrow. Too late tonight, and after trying to bump up the clock settings, it seems once I hit the 2nd step, I get artifacts and errors. I am lucky to run at 378 core 357.75 mem. Seems rather low for this card doesn't it ?? Seems like it's not worth the effort to even bother. Are there any diag programs to test to make sure the card is entirely healthy to start with? I get no game freezes, no artifacts or anything unusual in games, so it seems fine, but I kind of expected what was a high end card to OC better than 2 steps.....but that is also inexperience talking. This is my first OC adventure. Will do a night back of grid test for FPS tomorrow.......if the bug doesn't grab me tonight. thanks again guys Verne

Goy Larsen wrote:

Quoted text (29 lines)

> Greg Campbell wrote: > >>I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run >>a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org >>You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer >>startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory >>errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the >>(fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software. > > > I agree with everything that's been said up until this point, unless you > mess around with ridiculous OC'ing numbers and voltage settings, the > risk of hardware failure is slim to none, however the chances of a > software failure is not to be overlooked > > While trying to OC my AMD64 I corrupted the Windows installation twice, > now I've been around the block a few times so I use a spare HD with a > basic Windows installation for most of my testing so that didn't bother > me much but I feel a word of warning on this issue is in place, as with > most things, back up important data before messing about with your PC > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

So then Uncle Goy, are you saying that if I set my BIOS to 182 instead of original setting and Prime95 reports an error with no warning(s), then I should be fine running it at that? I have not touched voltage settings, I know nothing of elctrical anything.....other than it doesn't go into the shower with me. My Sempron 2800+ goes from 2000mhz, to 2259 when setting the BIOS to 182. Somehow when purchasing RAM over the past year, I now have one stick of PC3200 and one stick of PC2700. I noticed while in the BIOS that my ram was set to 266, but they are 400 and 333 I believe, should I set my BIOS for the ram to 333 or auto to get full ram capacity?! Will this make a difference without even overclocking the system? So many questions.....but such is a learning process. Verne

Quoted text (25 lines)

>>I don't want to add another layer of complication, but you can also run >>a program called memtest86+. http://www.memtest.org >>You burn it to make a bootable CD, and it runs immediately upon computer >>startup. It's similar to P95, but focuses largely on finding memory >>errors. Since it runs before windoze starts up, you eliminate the >>(fairly slim) risk of corrupting your installed software. > I agree with everything that's been said up until this point, unless you > mess around with ridiculous OC'ing numbers and voltage settings, the > risk of hardware failure is slim to none, however the chances of a > software failure is not to be overlooked > While trying to OC my AMD64 I corrupted the Windows installation twice, > now I've been around the block a few times so I use a spare HD with a > basic Windows installation for most of my testing so that didn't bother > me much but I feel a word of warning on this issue is in place, as with > most things, back up important data before messing about with your PC > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

So then Uncle Goy, are you saying that if I set my BIOS to 182 instead of original setting and Prime95 reports an error with no warning(s), then I should be fine running it at that? I have not touched voltage settings, I know nothing of elctrical anything.....other than it doesn't go into the shower with me. My Sempron 2800+ goes from 2000mhz, to 2259 when setting the BIOS to 182. Somehow when purchasing RAM over the past year, I now have one stick of PC3200 and one stick of PC2700. I noticed while in the BIOS that my ram was set to 266, but they are 400 and 333 I believe, should I set my BIOS for the ram to 333 or auto to get full ram capacity?! Will this make a difference without even overclocking the system? So many questions.....but such is a learning process. Verne

V \"fnugen\" wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > So then Uncle Goy, are you saying that if I set my BIOS to 182 instead > of original setting and Prime95 reports an error with no warning(s), > then I should be fine running it at that? I have not touched voltage > settings, I know nothing of elctrical anything.....other than it doesn't > go into the shower with me. My Sempron 2800+ goes from 2000mhz, to 2259 > when setting the BIOS to 182. Somehow when purchasing RAM over the past > year, I now have one stick of PC3200 and one stick of PC2700. I noticed > while in the BIOS that my ram was set to 266, but they are 400 and 333 I > believe, should I set my BIOS for the ram to 333 or auto to get full ram > capacity?! Will this make a difference without even overclocking the > system? So many questions.....but such is a learning process.

Ideally you'd want to run the memory as fast as possible, however the AMDs have always managed to do with less than Intel's CPUs so it's not as critical to run your memory at Warp speed, but if you can get your memory to run at 333 it would be preferable Overall you're OC'ing within reason and not messing about with voltage settings, everything points to you being well on the safe side, but before running your PC OC'ed at any length of time you really should backup important files, you always should of course, but now you'll be running your PC out of spec so it's even more important Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

V "fnugen" wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, > what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively > to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while > waiting for GTL ?? > > AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) > 1024m ram > ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) > MSI KT4AV mobo > > Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than > anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another > 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a > difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

Ok, for anybody who has been reading this, I now have my system running as such: AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) running at 2.23g 9800pro bearly OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts. (384.75/357.75) 1024g ram Both ram and CPU run together through my BIOS. So both are OC to 366mhz. I do see a difference in both day AND night using GTL as a test bed. The back of grid night at GTL is a noticeable improvement over non-OC settings. Of course, YMMV compared to mine. Thanks to Greg and Uncle Goy for helping me out. Keep the black stuff beneath you. V

Quoted text (14 lines)

> I am getting ready to get GTL when it comes out, but in the meanwhile, > what is a good idea, based on my PC stats, to upgrade now inexpensively > to at least better the games I have now (F1c, GTR, LFS, RBR) while > waiting for GTL ?? > AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) > 1024m ram > ATI 9800 pro 128m (AGP 8x) > MSI KT4AV mobo > Please do not suggest an X800 card........I'd love one more than > anything, but $$ is an object here. I was thinking of grabbing another > 512m ram seeinh how it is only $64 here. Will it make enough of a > difference to warrant the addition ?? Any other ideas??

Ok, for anybody who has been reading this, I now have my system running as such: AMD Sempron 2800+ (2g) running at 2.23g 9800pro bearly OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts. (384.75/357.75) 1024g ram Both ram and CPU run together through my BIOS. So both are OC to 366mhz. I do see a difference in both day AND night using GTL as a test bed. The back of grid night at GTL is a noticeable improvement over non-OC settings. Of course, YMMV compared to mine. Thanks to Greg and Uncle Goy for helping me out. Keep the black stuff beneath you. V

Mitch_A wrote:

Quoted text (19 lines)

> Hold onto that $64 and save it till ya have enough for either a better card. > http://search.ebay.com/6800-gt_W0QQftsZ0 or an XP3200+ cpu. > > I'd throw an Athlon XP 3200+ at that MSI KT4AV for $120 (w/bios upg) > (www.pricewatch.com) and OC as much as possible (maybe just get a good fan > h/s as well to help oc'ing). Or better yet a dual core 64 mobo/cpu combo but > thats far beyond a $64 budget ;) > > Nothing beats cpu cycles and that sempron is a budget cpu so really the best > investment/performance ratio so in your case is the XP3200+ is your best > bet. 9800/128 isnt that much slower than an x800/256 at lower res's and you > should also OC it amap. > > You won't see hardly any difference going to 2gigs of ram. You could make > up the performance difference by tweaking XP following black vipers > excellent guide. > > Mitch >

I was just doing a little looking at my board. IT says it supports 3000+ "and higher"........hmmmmmm, what might "and higher" actually pertain to?? Before I source out an XP3200+, I want to be damned certain it will work on the board. The closest I can get to a 3G CPU without redoing mobo and chip, the better. I tried searching the Mobo/3200+ combo on google to no avail.......or I am just not entering my search wording properly. By chance, does a 64bit board run the same memory I presently have on a NON 64bit board?? Initial cost has to be minimal, and I am thinking a new board and chip will be rather costly if I jump to 64bit right now. Thanks for your help.......and patience. Verne

Quoted text (18 lines)

> Hold onto that $64 and save it till ya have enough for either a better card. > http://search.ebay.com/6800-gt_W0QQftsZ0 or an XP3200+ cpu. > I'd throw an Athlon XP 3200+ at that MSI KT4AV for $120 (w/bios upg) > (www.pricewatch.com) and OC as much as possible (maybe just get a good fan > h/s as well to help oc'ing). Or better yet a dual core 64 mobo/cpu combo but > thats far beyond a $64 budget ;) > Nothing beats cpu cycles and that sempron is a budget cpu so really the best > investment/performance ratio so in your case is the XP3200+ is your best > bet. 9800/128 isnt that much slower than an x800/256 at lower res's and you > should also OC it amap. > You won't see hardly any difference going to 2gigs of ram. You could make > up the performance difference by tweaking XP following black vipers > excellent guide. > Mitch

I was just doing a little looking at my board. IT says it supports 3000+ "and higher"........hmmmmmm, what might "and higher" actually pertain to?? Before I source out an XP3200+, I want to be damned certain it will work on the board. The closest I can get to a 3G CPU without redoing mobo and chip, the better. I tried searching the Mobo/3200+ combo on google to no avail.......or I am just not entering my search wording properly. By chance, does a 64bit board run the same memory I presently have on a NON 64bit board?? Initial cost has to be minimal, and I am thinking a new board and chip will be rather costly if I jump to 64bit right now. Thanks for your help.......and patience. Verne

Go to this page http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=456 and then look at the BIOS upgrades. The latest fix is for the XP3200+. You may need to flash your mobo. Be sure to check which version of the mobo you have also. Double check yourself though, no warranty expressed or written ;) Mitch "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9cZ0f.2709$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (35 lines)

> Mitch_A wrote: > >> Hold onto that $64 and save it till ya have enough for either a better >> card. http://search.ebay.com/6800-gt_W0QQftsZ0 or an XP3200+ cpu. >> >> I'd throw an Athlon XP 3200+ at that MSI KT4AV for $120 (w/bios upg) >> (www.pricewatch.com) and OC as much as possible (maybe just get a good >> fan h/s as well to help oc'ing). Or better yet a dual core 64 mobo/cpu >> combo but thats far beyond a $64 budget ;) >> >> Nothing beats cpu cycles and that sempron is a budget cpu so really the >> best investment/performance ratio so in your case is the XP3200+ is your >> best bet. 9800/128 isnt that much slower than an x800/256 at lower res's >> and you should also OC it amap. >> >> You won't see hardly any difference going to 2gigs of ram. You could >> make up the performance difference by tweaking XP following black vipers >> excellent guide. >> >> Mitch >> > > I was just doing a little looking at my board. IT says it supports 3000+ > "and higher"........hmmmmmm, what might "and higher" actually pertain to?? > Before I source out an XP3200+, I want to be damned certain it will work > on the board. The closest I can get to a 3G CPU without redoing mobo and > chip, the better. I tried searching the Mobo/3200+ combo on google to no > avail.......or I am just not entering my search wording properly. By > chance, does a 64bit board run the same memory I presently have on a NON > 64bit board?? Initial cost has to be minimal, and I am thinking a new > board and chip will be rather costly if I jump to 64bit right now. > Thanks for your help.......and patience. > > Verne >

Mitch_A wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Go to this page > http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=456 > and then look at the BIOS upgrades. The latest fix is for the XP3200+. You > may need to flash your mobo. Be sure to check which version of the mobo you > have also. > > Double check yourself though, no warranty expressed or written ;) > > Mitch >

Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Go to this page > http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.p... > and then look at the BIOS upgrades. The latest fix is for the XP3200+. You > may need to flash your mobo. Be sure to check which version of the mobo you > have also. > Double check yourself though, no warranty expressed or written ;) > Mitch

Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe

V "fnugen" wrote: > 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts. > (384.75/357.75) Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for more core speed. -Greg

Greg Campbell wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> V "fnugen" wrote: > >> 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts. >> (384.75/357.75) > > > Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for > more core speed. > > -Greg >

Just tried it Greg, I get artifacts right away if I move above 384.75 core. I'd have thought this card would have been more able than that. Maybe my system overall just can't handle a vid card OCed. Is there maybe another program than ATItool that does the same thing, maybe I have a bad tweaking tool. I know nothing other than the obvious at this, thanks again. Would having my BIOS set to aperture of 256 be a problem? Fastwrite off in BIOS as well. Verne

Quoted text (7 lines)

>> 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts. >> (384.75/357.75) > Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for > more core speed. > -Greg

Just tried it Greg, I get artifacts right away if I move above 384.75 core. I'd have thought this card would have been more able than that. Maybe my system overall just can't handle a vid card OCed. Is there maybe another program than ATItool that does the same thing, maybe I have a bad tweaking tool. I know nothing other than the obvious at this, thanks again. Would having my BIOS set to aperture of 256 be a problem? Fastwrite off in BIOS as well. Verne

V \"fnugen\" wrote:

Quoted text (21 lines)

> > Greg Campbell wrote: > > V "fnugen" wrote: > > > >> 9800pro barely OC for some reason, just keeps hitting artifacts. > >> (384.75/357.75) > > > > > > Try underclocking the vidcard memory (20~40 MHz or so) and then try for > > more core speed. > > > > -Greg > > > > Just tried it Greg, I get artifacts right away if I move above 384.75 > core. I'd have thought this card would have been more able than that. > Maybe my system overall just can't handle a vid card OCed. Is there > maybe another program than ATItool that does the same thing, maybe I > have a bad tweaking tool. I know nothing other than the obvious at > this, thanks again. Would having my BIOS set to aperture of 256 be a > problem? Fastwrite off in BIOS as well.

As long as the tool allows you to increase core speed and memory speed independently, then there's little else any other tool can do, sometimes GPUs and CPUs just don't OC much There's one thing you haven't played around with yet as far as I can tell, and that's the memory timing, while memory speed is important for the overall bandwidth available, once the you surpass the demands of your system, more bandwidth is "wasted", if setting the memory speed down to 266 doesn't affect the performance of your system running certain comparable tests, then you'd prolly have some leeway to play around with the timing settings CL, CAS and all that Your average DDR memory are rated at 2.5, high end at 2.0 and cheap stuff at 3.0, by lowering the speed from 333 to 266 you might be able to reduce the memory timing to 2.0, and the other timings might be reduced from 3-3-7 to 2-2-5, memory timing is more important than memory speed once you have "enough" bandwidth Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

V \"fnugen\" wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > > Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of > sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and > chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I > may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at > my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated

Problem with that is that you'd either have to get an AGP equipped A64 board, which will seriously limit your future upgrade path or get a PCI-E vid card at the same time... :( > I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to > help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT4A-V Says it supports 3200+ here....? What's the MS number on your card ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

Goy Larsen wrote:

Quoted text (33 lines)

> V \"fnugen\" wrote: > >> >>Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of >>sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and >>chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I >>may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at >>my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated > > > Problem with that is that you'd either have to get an AGP equipped A64 > board, which will seriously limit your future upgrade path or get a > PCI-E vid card at the same time... :( > > >>I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to >>help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe > > > http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT4A-V > > Says it supports 3200+ here....? > > What's the MS number on your card ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

My board is MS6712. It is the KT4AV-L. Has the KT400A chipset. Says up to 3000+ and higher.............hate the "and higher" generic terminology. Just HOW high!?!? I decided to go price an AMD64 board and chip. Upgrading in the future is a concern, but if it gives me the performance I am after now........then a board upgrade later next year is not an issue. I got a good quote for an AMD64 3500+ s939 and an MSI (I like MSI) K8T Neo2-F board. Has dual core capability for down the road, but it has AGP8x, which I can use my good old 9800pro in the meantime. Buying a new vid card as well as processor and board is way beyond my spending right now. I Have plans on buidling another system for my kids as well, so "hand me downs" are the goal with any upgrades. So I will still need a few extra $$ to replace what I still need for my own, hence the waiting for a BIG upgrade overall. Certain things come first........but a board and chip, not unreasonable. My system runs pretty good now, but I know GTL will tax it, and any new games that happen to come out as well. PCI-E will be in my future, but not until next year sometime. $400 for a vid card, not right now. Thanks for the help and insight though, definitely learned some things along this venture. Verne

Quoted text (26 lines)

>>Sadly Mitch, my chipset falls into the "CANNOT" field. This kind of >>sucks now. Makes me wonder if maybe I should just grab a 64bit board and >>chip now.......as long as my current ram will run on a 64bit board, I >>may go that route. JUst going to see about "putting one together" at >>my local haunt. Online price list. Thanks though, appreciated > Problem with that is that you'd either have to get an AGP equipped A64 > board, which will seriously limit your future upgrade path or get a > PCI-E vid card at the same time... :( >>I'll just live with what I have until GTL comes out. The OCing seems to >>help pick up a bit of slack though. SO it's "bearable" hehehe > http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT4A-V > Says it supports 3200+ here....? > What's the MS number on your card ? > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

My board is MS6712. It is the KT4AV-L. Has the KT400A chipset. Says up to 3000+ and higher.............hate the "and higher" generic terminology. Just HOW high!?!? I decided to go price an AMD64 board and chip. Upgrading in the future is a concern, but if it gives me the performance I am after now........then a board upgrade later next year is not an issue. I got a good quote for an AMD64 3500+ s939 and an MSI (I like MSI) K8T Neo2-F board. Has dual core capability for down the road, but it has AGP8x, which I can use my good old 9800pro in the meantime. Buying a new vid card as well as processor and board is way beyond my spending right now. I Have plans on buidling another system for my kids as well, so "hand me downs" are the goal with any upgrades. So I will still need a few extra $$ to replace what I still need for my own, hence the waiting for a BIG upgrade overall. Certain things come first........but a board and chip, not unreasonable. My system runs pretty good now, but I know GTL will tax it, and any new games that happen to come out as well. PCI-E will be in my future, but not until next year sometime. $400 for a vid card, not right now. Thanks for the help and insight though, definitely learned some things along this venture. Verne