Hertz car rental sucks...

Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in this anyway. I recently made a trip to the San Franciso Bay area. It was a great time and I'm glad I went. But, it started off in a very bad way. When I made my airline reservations the airline clerk asked if I needed a rental car. I said yes, so they connected me over to Hertz with some kind of referral discount. I gave Hertz all my info and received a confirmation #. The day before I left town I checked back with their website and confirmed the reservation was still valid. So I get into SFO and arrive at the rental car "plaza". The place was a madhouse, but no prob, I have reservations. I go up to the Hertz counter, give them my license, Visa card, and reservation #. So they start filling out all the paperwork and told me I'd have a Nissan Sentra or something. Whatever, I really didn't care as long as it wasn't a Geo Metro. Then the clerk says "Oh, you're only 24?". Yes, I'm 24 yrs old. WTF is the big deal? So he proceeds to tell me they can't rent me a car, as I have to be 25 yrs old. So I tell him that's too bad, but they made a reservation with me and never told me this little detail. Now I'm 1000 mi away from home in an unfamiliar city and need a car. He then says sorry, there's nothing we can do about it that, it's against our policy. WTF? So that's somehow my problem??? I tell the dumbass to get his manager. So some halfwit manager comes over and tells me the same thing. I tell him that's bullshit. They made a reservation with me and they screwed up. They need to fix their fuckup by either renting me my car or getting me one from somewhere else (and of course paying any monetary difference). Then the manager tells me that the reservation people are supposed to tell me you have to be 25, and that it's written on the reservation terminal when they are filling out the info. As if I'm supposed to be able to see this shit on the screen when I'm talking to them on the phone in Denver. Unbelievable... This went on for another 5 minutes, with no solution. Finally, I ask them if they're going to totally leave me stranded here with no car, after I made a goddamn reservation in Denver. They basically said yes, you're screwed. In desperation I went to all the other rental counters and practically begged for a goddamn car so I could be on my way. Finally, National Rent-A-Car gives me the name of some place off the airport that will cater to the dregs of society such as myself. So I finally get connected with them several hours later. But here's the really bad part: My cost with Hertz was going to be $138 for the 5 days I was out there. With the other place, it was just under $500. Can you believe that? $500 for a fucking rental car (BTW, it was a Nissan Sentra). But I had no choice and had to go with it. My complaint is not with the fact that Hurtz won't rent to people under 25. Sure, it's blatant discrimination and I don't even understand how it's legal, but whatever. My complaint is that they made a reservation with me and then left me screwed in a strange city very far from home. I just can't even begin to understand how they could do that to me. If anyone knows of possible legal recourse, please contact me as I would seriously consider it. I hate the whole suing thing, but this certainly seems like a good case for it. Sorry for the long post, but I felt the details were necessary to understand how bizarre and messed up this whole thing was. Sam

"Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... : Sorry for the long post, but I felt the details were necessary to : understand how bizarre and messed up this whole thing was. : Man, that sucks. I think up here in Canada as long as you have a credit card, a DL and are over 18 (ie, you can sign a contract as an adult) you can rent a car. I was 23 when I rented for the first time. $500, eh? Well since this is a sim group I can only suggest you drive the wheels off it and get your money's worth :-) I remember a certain 3-cylinder 5-door Geo Metro that was launched airborne as I was driving into a parking lot...but then again I was only 23 ;-) Dale.

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:44:05 GMT, "Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>My complaint is not with the fact that Hurtz won't rent to people under 25. >Sure, it's blatant discrimination and I don't even understand how it's >legal, but whatever. My complaint is that they made a reservation with me >and then left me screwed in a strange city very far from home. I just can't >even begin to understand how they could do that to me. If anyone knows of >possible legal recourse, please contact me as I would seriously consider it. >I hate the whole suing thing, but this certainly seems like a good case for >it. Sorry for the long post, but I felt the details were necessary to >understand how bizarre and messed up this whole thing was. > >Sam >

That is unfortunate. Either the people who made the reservation or Hertz are responsible for this and owe you for the incovienence and loss of money you had to pay for the other car. I would take it to small claims court, or maybe Judge Judy. :-)

Sam Trask wrote in message ... >Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in >this anyway. ><snip hertz story> I had the same experience....I was in Canada for a while, then flew to Seattle, booked a car over the phone and turned up in a cab with about, oh, 15 months worth of luggage. They did the same thing, no leniency. My buddy and I had to cab it to some overpriced "you're stuck with me buddy" backyard operator. Turned out we could have bought a car cheaper than the rental cost for 14 days. Bummer. Ben

It happened to me in 92, also another problem with these assholes is that they wont't take a credit card from another person than the driver. Say you are john smith, aged 26 and you want to rent a car, you are with your friend jack moore who pays for the car ( because you don't have an international VISA or because you paid for the airline tickets...or whatever reason), well, even if jack moore is present at the counter they won't rent you... Solution is, make a BIG mess at the counter (will scare the present customers anyway) and give them as much publicity as you can eveywhere.... besides that this situation is of course ONLY in the land of the free and home of the brave or maybe the opposite)...sometimes they can be more "germans" than the "germans" (note the "" before flaming). "Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]...

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> Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in > this anyway. > > I recently made a trip to the San Franciso Bay area. It was a great time > and I'm glad I went. But, it started off in a very bad way. > > When I made my airline reservations the airline clerk asked if I needed a > rental car. I said yes, so they connected me over to Hertz with some kind > of referral discount. I gave Hertz all my info and received a

confirmation

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> #. The day before I left town I checked back with their website and > confirmed the reservation was still valid. > > So I get into SFO and arrive at the rental car "plaza". The place was a > madhouse, but no prob, I have reservations. I go up to the Hertz counter, > give them my license, Visa card, and reservation #. So they start filling > out all the paperwork and told me I'd have a Nissan Sentra or something. > Whatever, I really didn't care as long as it wasn't a Geo Metro. Then the > clerk says "Oh, you're only 24?". Yes, I'm 24 yrs old. WTF is the big > deal? So he proceeds to tell me they can't rent me a car, as I have to be > 25 yrs old. So I tell him that's too bad, but they made a reservation

with > me and never told me this little detail. Now I'm 1000 mi away from homein > an unfamiliar city and need a car. He then says sorry, there's nothing we > can do about it that, it's against our policy. WTF? So that's somehow my > problem??? I tell the dumbass to get his manager. So some halfwitmanager > comes over and tells me the same thing. I tell him that's bullshit. They > made a reservation with me and they screwed up. They need to fix their > fuckup by either renting me my car or getting me one from somewhere else > (and of course paying any monetary difference). Then the manager tells me > that the reservation people are supposed to tell me you have to be 25, and > that it's written on the reservation terminal when they are filling outthe > info. As if I'm supposed to be able to see this shit on the screen whenI'm

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> talking to them on the phone in Denver. Unbelievable... This went on for > another 5 minutes, with no solution. Finally, I ask them if they're going > to totally leave me stranded here with no car, after I made a goddamn > reservation in Denver. They basically said yes, you're screwed. > > In desperation I went to all the other rental counters and practically > begged for a goddamn car so I could be on my way. Finally, National > Rent-A-Car gives me the name of some place off the airport that will cater > to the dregs of society such as myself. So I finally get connected with > them several hours later. But here's the really bad part: My cost with > Hertz was going to be $138 for the 5 days I was out there. With the other > place, it was just under $500. Can you believe that? $500 for a fucking > rental car (BTW, it was a Nissan Sentra). But I had no choice and had to

go > with it. > > My complaint is not with the fact that Hurtz won't rent to people under25. > Sure, it's blatant discrimination and I don't even understand how it's > legal, but whatever. My complaint is that they made a reservation with me > and then left me screwed in a strange city very far from home. I justcan't > even begin to understand how they could do that to me. If anyone knows of > possible legal recourse, please contact me as I would seriously considerit. > I hate the whole suing thing, but this certainly seems like a good casefor

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> it. Sorry for the long post, but I felt the details were necessary to > understand how bizarre and messed up this whole thing was. > > Sam > > >

"Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... > Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in > this anyway. >I hate this kind of thing - kick up a big fuss - Ideally, go to the office that took the booking and shout at them infront of customers that may decide to look elsewhere. Failing that - write a letter to the manager of the booking office, pointing out that the SFO desk reckoned they had made a mistake, tell them that "you want to give them a chance to retain a customer" and attach evidence of the additional costs. It annoys me that polite complaints go unnoticed - but get ugly in front of other customers seems to get results. Even in the UK, where we don't get good service - most companies would stump up a "goodwill" payment rather than loose you altogether.

"Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... > Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in > this anyway. Oh yes, I'm *always* interested in listening to people whining.

Sorry to hear that... but this is obviously your first car rental, and it won't happen again because now you know, if you want something done right... do it yourself. On Hertz's web site, there is a very short FAQ under "Policies and Procedures" with the last point (8) mentioning age requirements. Honestly I though it was common knowledge, most car rental companies in the US have this constraint. I have to say that I use Hertz a lot (I'm a Gold Club President's Circle member now) and the (automated) service is impeccable. I book everything on the web, even sometimes 24hrs before, then when I fly in at the airport, I walk directly to my nearby reserved car without waiting in line, going to any counter or having to talk to anyone, and generally it's been upgraded for free. I love these guys, especially for the fact that I don't have to deal with any real people. *People* are the problem! Hehehe. "Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... > [...] > My complaint is not with the fact that Hurtz won't rent to people under25. > [...]

No, they still suck for stranding me. I've actually rented a lot of cars in the past, but it's always been with Enterprise. They have never said a thing to me about my age, so I really had no reason to belive I wouldn't be eligible. Why would I check the Hertz website? After all, I'm a 24 yr old with a license and several major credit cards. Figured I was eligible for anything. Apparently not though... "Alain" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n9bh7.521$[email hidden]... > Sorry to hear that... but this is obviously your first car rental, and it > won't happen again because now you know, if you want something doneright...

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> do it yourself. On Hertz's web site, there is a very short FAQ under > "Policies and Procedures" with the last point (8) mentioning age > requirements. Honestly I though it was common knowledge, most car rental > companies in the US have this constraint. > > I have to say that I use Hertz a lot (I'm a Gold Club President's Circle > member now) and the (automated) service is impeccable. I book everything

on

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> the web, even sometimes 24hrs before, then when I fly in at the airport, I > walk directly to my nearby reserved car without waiting in line, going to > any counter or having to talk to anyone, and generally it's been upgraded > for free. I love these guys, especially for the fact that I don't have to > deal with any real people. *People* are the problem! Hehehe. > > > "Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... > > [...] > > My complaint is not with the fact that Hurtz won't rent to people under > 25. > > [...] > >

Sam Trask wrote:

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> > No, they still suck for stranding me. I've actually rented a lot of cars in > the past, but it's always been with Enterprise. They have never said a > thing to me about my age, so I really had no reason to belive I wouldn't be > eligible. Why would I check the Hertz website? After all, I'm a 24 yr old > with a license and several major credit cards. Figured I was eligible for > anything. Apparently not though...

Yeah, the rental car industry sucks if you're under age 25. The cheap bastards want the price break on the insurance, hence not renting to younger drivers. I know, I started at Hertz & now work for Budget. I don't make/enforce policies though.... I'm one of the mechanics that keep them cars rolling for people to beat the shit out of! <g> -- Fester

"Dale Green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I remember a certain 3-cylinder 5-door Geo Metro that was launchedairborne > as I was driving into a parking lot...but then again I was only 23 ;-) > > Dale. >Which is why you have to be 25 to rent a car from Hertz :-)

"Uncle Fester" wrote...

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> > <snip> > Yeah, the rental car industry sucks if you're under age 25. > The cheap bastards want the price break on the insurance, > hence not renting to younger drivers. I know, I started at > Hertz & now work for Budget. I don't make/enforce policies > though.... I'm one of the mechanics that keep them cars > rolling for people to beat the shit out of! <g>

Well whattaya know... I had no idea these companies did their own maintenance. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Ain't that the truth! I would never buy a used a used car from rental companies, because we renters really don't show much respect for these poor things. At home, it would cost you a lot in maintenance if you were too rough on your own car, so when we rent, it's time for full-throttle action! Yeehaa! Hehehe. "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > [...] > keep them cars rolling for people to beat the shit out of! <g> > [...]

Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" wrote... > > > <snip> > > Yeah, the rental car industry sucks if you're under age 25. > > The cheap bastards want the price break on the insurance, > > hence not renting to younger drivers. I know, I started at > > Hertz & now work for Budget. I don't make/enforce policies > > though.... I'm one of the mechanics that keep them cars > > rolling for people to beat the shit out of! <g> > > Well whattaya know... I had no idea these companies did their own > maintenance.

Yes sir. And a very secure job it is! I've been there 8 1/2 years & I'm still second from the bottom on the seniority list. In the summer, you can basically do all the overtime you wish. There is no shortage of repairs to make to these poor vehicles. -- Fester

Alain wrote: > > Ain't that the truth! I would never buy a used a used car from rental > companies, because we renters really don't show much respect for these poor > things. At home, it would cost you a lot in maintenance if you were too > rough on your own car, so when we rent, it's time for full-throttle action! > Yeehaa! Hehehe. You got that right. I would *NEVER* buy an ex-rental car. Not knowingly, anyways. The things that get done to them is sometimes beyond belief. ;-) -- Fester > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [...] > > keep them cars rolling for people to beat the shit out of! <g> > > [...]

Damn UF! You probably just missed fixing one of the 100s+ of rentals I half destroyed while traveling from airport to city & back all over our country, Canada & the Islands...lol :) P.S. btw: Glad to hear some companies still have security!! "Uncle Fester" wrote: | Yes sir. And a very secure job it is! I've been there 8 1/2 years & | I'm still second from the bottom on the seniority list. In the summer, | you can basically do all the overtime you wish. There is no shortage of | repairs to make to these poor vehicles. | -- | Fester --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

"Thom j." wrote: > > Damn UF! You probably just missed fixing one of the 100s+ > of rentals I half destroyed while traveling from airport to city > & back all over our country, Canada & the Islands...lol :) > P.S. btw: Glad to hear some companies still have security!! When in Detroit, do some neutral slams for me! LOL ;-) -- Fester

Sorry Pardner, after being taken ill in 1990 I havent been able to basically travel any distance anymore... So sadly, or is it luckily for the car rental companies I have retired my rental card..lol "Uncle Fester" wrote:

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| When in Detroit, do some neutral slams for me! LOL ;-) | -- | Fester | "Thom j." wrote: | > Damn UF! You probably just missed fixing one of the 100s+ | > of rentals I half destroyed while traveling from airport to city | > & back all over our country, Canada & the Islands...lol :) | > P.S. btw: Glad to hear some companies still have security!!

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

"Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... > Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might beinterested in > this anyway.[long story deleted] Sorry if you ran into all this trouble, but I ran into this thing before too. Hertz won't rent to under 25 due to insurance reasons, as do many of the major renters. I *think* Dollar rents to 21 and over, though that may be regional, and yes, I'm in the SF Bay Area. Hertz is incredibly expensive any way. When I can I got with Enterprise Dollar, or National. --KC

Uncle Fester heeft geschreven in bericht <[email hidden]>... >You got that right. I would *NEVER* buy an ex-rental car. Not >knowingly, anyways. The things that get done to them is sometimes >beyond belief. ;-) > I read a story once about our Dutch sportscardrivers Toine Hezemans and Gijs van Lennep in the 70's. They followed the ad that was run by Herz in those days by the letter, "You can park it everywhere". So for fun they ditched it in a swimmingpool and called Herz where they could pick the car up :-) Shortly after Herz came up with a new slogan :-) Hans van Dam

When you turn twenty five, do what I do. Buy the full coverage insurance then smash the mirror off on the checkout booth. I swear this 350 pound chick jumped half way out of the booth window one day at McCarran airport. Her eyes got huge when she first saw me coming but when the mirror actually hit... LOL I never saw any thing so big move so fast. Remember, full pit stop mode: as fast as you can go and still stop exactly at the window under full braking. -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FK0h7.45395$[email hidden]... > Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in > this anyway. <snip>

Per chance we her name Shamoo? :o)~ "mark jeangerard" wrote: | When you turn twenty five, do what I do. Buy the full coverage insurance | then smash the mirror off on the checkout booth. I swear this 350 pound | chick jumped half way out of the booth window one day at McCarran airport. | Her eyes got huge when she first saw me coming but when the mirroractually

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| hit... LOL I never saw any thing so big move so fast. | | Remember, full pit stop mode: as fast as you can go and still stop exactly | at the window under full braking. | -- | | "Racing! - Science for the action minded." |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:44:05 GMT, "Sam Trask" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Sorry this isn't pertinent to sims, but I think you might be interested in >this anyway. > >I recently made a trip to the San Franciso Bay area. It was a great time >and I'm glad I went. But, it started off in a very bad way. > >When I made my airline reservations the airline clerk asked if I needed a >rental car. I said yes, so they connected me over to Hertz with some kind >of referral discount. I gave Hertz all my info and received a confirmation >#. The day before I left town I checked back with their website and >confirmed the reservation was still valid.

They rented me one with a flat in SF and made me change the tire! lol. Welcome to America, please visit again. Regards, Anthony Bulloch

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:24:07 -0600, "mark jeangerard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>When you turn twenty five, do what I do. Buy the full coverage insurance >then smash the mirror off on the checkout booth. I swear this 350 pound >chick jumped half way out of the booth window one day at McCarran airport. >Her eyes got huge when she first saw me coming but when the mirror actually >hit... LOL I never saw any thing so big move so fast. > >Remember, full pit stop mode: as fast as you can go and still stop exactly >at the window under full braking.

You need help. Regards, Anthony Bulloch

mark jeangerard wrote:

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> > When you turn twenty five, do what I do. Buy the full coverage insurance > then smash the mirror off on the checkout booth. I swear this 350 pound > chick jumped half way out of the booth window one day at McCarran airport. > Her eyes got huge when she first saw me coming but when the mirror actually > hit... LOL I never saw any thing so big move so fast. > > Remember, full pit stop mode: as fast as you can go and still stop exactly > at the window under full braking. > --

ROTFLMAO!!! Stop it, yer killin' me! :-)) -- Fester

Can we get OJ to run thru the Airports again? huh? huh?huh? :o)~ "Uncle Fester" wrote:

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| ROTFLMAO!!! Stop it, yer killin' me! :-)) | -- | Fester | mark jeangerard wrote: | > | > When you turn twenty five, do what I do. Buy the full coverage insurance | > then smash the mirror off on the checkout booth. I swear this 350 pound | > chick jumped half way out of the booth window one day at McCarran

airport. | > Her eyes got huge when she first saw me coming but when the mirroractually | > hit... LOL I never saw any thing so big move so fast. | > | > Remember, full pit stop mode: as fast as you can go and still stopexactly | > at the window under full braking. | > -- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

"Thom j." wrote: > > Can we get OJ to run thru the Airports again? huh? huh?huh? :o)~ > No need to anymore. He prefers low speed chases. Guess he's getting old & his nerves can't take it. <g> -- Fester

Yea ur right and I guess his arthritis wouldnt let him hop over those airport type chairs anymore. hahaha :) "Uncle Fester" wrote:

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| No need to anymore. He prefers low speed chases. Guess he's getting | old & his nerves can't take it. <g> | -- | Fester | "Thom j." wrote: | > | > Can we get OJ to run thru the Airports again? huh? huh?huh? :o)~

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

In article <wnxh7.131477$[email hidden]>, "Thom j." <[email hidden]> writes: >Can we get OJ to run thru the Airports again? huh? huh?huh? :o)~ > Wasn't that Gayle Sayers? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Wasnt OJ the Hertz dude for years? Now you have me wondering Eldred?...lol "EldredP" wrote: | | Wasn't that Gayle Sayers? | | Eldred "Thom j." writes: | >Can we get OJ to run thru the Airports again? huh? huh?huh? :o)~ | > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

"Thom j." wrote:

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> > Wasnt OJ the Hertz dude for years? Now you have me wondering > Eldred?...lol > > "EldredP" wrote: > | > | Wasn't that Gayle Sayers? > | > | Eldred > > "Thom j." writes: > | >Can we get OJ to run thru the Airports again? huh? huh?huh? :o)~ > | >

Yes, it was indeed OJ. I guarantee it. -- Fester

I thought so Uncle Fester but after Eldred said "Gayle Sayers" I went, really? hmm? maybe? "Uncle Fester" wrote: | Yes, it was indeed OJ. I guarantee it. | -- | Fester --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes: >Yes, it was indeed OJ. I guarantee it. Ok, Chuck - you're old enough to remember it clearer...<ducking> So - what the hell commercial was Gayle Sayers in...? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >Yes, it was indeed OJ. I guarantee it. > > Ok, Chuck - you're old enough to remember it clearer...<ducking>

HEY!! I'm not nearly as old as Thom! > So - what the hell commercial was Gayle Sayers in...? Commercial? Dunno. I remember Brian's Song though. That's the only thing I can think of with Mr. Sayers. -- Fester

Nobody is old as me!! :( I remember when I use to change God's diapers & she hated the fig leaves I used on her!! :)~ "Uncle Fester" wrote: | HEY!! I'm not nearly as old as Thom! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001