GP3 2000 - what's the big deal?

I have now had a chance to try GP3 2000, and I can find absolutely nothing that you can't get with the original GP3 with various addons freely available on the web. (Especially GPxPatch, 2001 graphics, and various sound event packs.) - there are no improvements to the graphics, which @1280 I've always thought were pretty good anyway - still got the 'sky messages' - FF is defintely worse. In GP3 you could fell the back end losing grip through the wheel and have time to correct it. Also, 'canned effects' were pretty good. GP3 200 seems to have lost all the good aspects of the original FF - the ability to hear other cars, and positional sounds is nothing new. GPxPatch sorts that - no real change in the clunky menus - frame rate is much worse for me. At 1280 GP3 has a processor occupancy of about 40-50%, with 2000 at the same resolution the occupancy is about 180%! - worst of all is the handling of the cars. They now feel 'on rails'. Try putting your foot down at the start - you just move slowly away. In GP3, it was a delicate balance with wheel spin and needed a lot of practise. Similarly, accelerating out of corners just doesn't have the same 'realistic' feel at all. Am I missing something? Very disappointing. Iain

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:34:36 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I have now had a chance to try GP3 2000, and I can find absolutely nothing >that you can't get with the original GP3 with various addons freely >available on the web. (Especially GPxPatch, 2001 graphics, and various >sound event packs.) collision with debris is new I think? >- FF is defintely worse. In GP3 you could fell the back end losing grip >through the wheel and have time to correct it. Also, 'canned effects' were >pretty good. GP3 200 seems to have lost all the good aspects of the original >FF Weird.. because I remember how bad FF was in GP3, and I was so surprised that I could feel what the car was doing now in GP3 2000.. On my system FF is definately better in GP3 2000 than in GP3. >- frame rate is much worse for me. At 1280 GP3 has a processor occupancy of >about 40-50%, with 2000 at the same resolution the occupancy is about 180%!weird again, no problems here.. running smooth in 1280 with all details on, on a P3 866 GF2 GTS. Max 120% when there's a major crash in front of me. >- worst of all is the handling of the cars. They now feel 'on rails'. Try >putting your foot down at the start - you just move slowly away. In GP3, it >was a delicate balance with wheel spin and needed a lot of practise. >Similarly, accelerating out of corners just doesn't have the same >'realistic' feel at all. >Am I missing something? Yes, you definately have a problem with your controller setup. I have to be extremely carefull at the start, when I hit the throttle too much the rear snaps out. Same goes for acceletating out of corners. The car in GP3 2k does NOT feel 'on rails'. If the car feels 'on rails' then there is something wrong with your configuration. Weird eh, how games behave differently on different systems.. Gp3 2k is perfect on mine, but feels 'on rails' on your system, F1RC AI sucks on my system while you have no problems at all with them.. :) Andre

Andre I think you're pretty much alone if you think that the FF in GP3 was bad. It is generally accepted that outside of GPL, GP3 has the best FF of any racing simulation. You say I have 'a problem' with my conrtroller configuration , yet it is setup in exactly the same way as GP3 - all parameters the same. Finally, I didn't ever say I had no problems with the AI in F1RC, just a lot less than some people were suggesting! However, you're right, that it is weird how different sims seem to take on toally different characteristics depending on the system they are run on. Iain "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:34:36 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I have now had a chance to try GP3 2000, and I can find absolutelynothing

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> >that you can't get with the original GP3 with various addons freely > >available on the web. (Especially GPxPatch, 2001 graphics, and various > >sound event packs.) > > collision with debris is new I think? > > >- FF is defintely worse. In GP3 you could fell the back end losing grip > >through the wheel and have time to correct it. Also, 'canned effects'

were > >pretty good. GP3 200 seems to have lost all the good aspects of theoriginal

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> >FF > > Weird.. because I remember how bad FF was in GP3, and I was so > surprised that I could feel what the car was doing now in GP3 2000.. > On my system FF is definately better in GP3 2000 than in GP3. > > >- frame rate is much worse for me. At 1280 GP3 has a processor occupancy

of > >about 40-50%, with 2000 at the same resolution the occupancy is about180%! > weird again, no problems here.. running smooth in 1280 with all > details on, on a P3 866 GF2 GTS. Max 120% when there's a major crash > in front of me. > > >- worst of all is the handling of the cars. They now feel 'on rails'.Try > >putting your foot down at the start - you just move slowly away. In GP3,it

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> >was a delicate balance with wheel spin and needed a lot of practise. > >Similarly, accelerating out of corners just doesn't have the same > >'realistic' feel at all. > >Am I missing something? > > Yes, you definately have a problem with your controller setup. I have > to be extremely carefull at the start, when I hit the throttle too > much the rear snaps out. Same goes for acceletating out of corners. > The car in GP3 2k does NOT feel 'on rails'. If the car feels 'on > rails' then there is something wrong with your configuration. > > Weird eh, how games behave differently on different systems.. Gp3 2k > is perfect on mine, but feels 'on rails' on your system, F1RC AI sucks > on my system while you have no problems at all with them.. > :) > > Andre

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:34:36 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I have now had a chance to try GP3 2000, and I can find absolutely nothing >that you can't get with the original GP3 with various addons freely >available on the web. (Especially GPxPatch, 2001 graphics, and various >sound event packs.) >- there are no improvements to the graphics, which @1280 I've always thought >were pretty good anyway I agree there, I didn't see any great change, only updated graphics for 2000. >- still got the 'sky messages' Not sure what you mean by this? >- FF is defintely worse. In GP3 you could fell the back end losing grip >through the wheel and have time to correct it. Also, 'canned effects' were >pretty good. GP3 200 seems to have lost all the good aspects of the original >FF Can't comment here, I don't have FF here. >- the ability to hear other cars, and positional sounds is nothing new. >GPxPatch sorts that Agreed. >- no real change in the clunky menus Nope, they still suck :( >- frame rate is much worse for me. At 1280 GP3 has a processor occupancy of >about 40-50%, with 2000 at the same resolution the occupancy is about 180%! That is weird, I get a lower occupancy than in GP3 (not by much though, just a bit). Something's not right then. >- worst of all is the handling of the cars. They now feel 'on rails'. Try >putting your foot down at the start - you just move slowly away. In GP3, it >was a delicate balance with wheel spin and needed a lot of practise. >Similarly, accelerating out of corners just doesn't have the same >'realistic' feel at all. That's what I found to be the biggest advantage. They don't feel like on rails to me, I find the starts to be a quite similar test of throttle and grip in both versions. My biggest problem is my heavy right foot giving me grief exiting corners :) Racing the AI, I've just found the cars more "driveable" and realistic. Sliding into corners is very nice, catching any oversteer - as long as I'm quick enough ;) is good too. Just racing it is more fun, for me anyway. Problem for me, and also for Andre I'd say, is that we never really got into GP3 totally. I played it a fair bit, but never installed many of the addons or fiddled with setups too much, as I was too busy learning the subtleties of it. But it frustrated me so often that I gave up. But I have WAAYYYY more time for it with the addon, and am enjoying it alot. Maybe it's alot to do with the fact that it all works properly, right out of the box. BTW, a couple of things you didn't mention were the debris collision, pits communications (not that exciting anyway), the revamped and very well done AI, and the reworked controller setup (not the menus, just the way it works first time now) Mind you, GP3 should always have had this stuff from day 1 Rafe Mc

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:50:27 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Andre >I think you're pretty much alone if you think that the FF in GP3 was bad. >It is generally accepted that outside of GPL, GP3 has the best FF of any >racing simulation. >You say I have 'a problem' with my conrtroller configuration , yet it is >setup in exactly the same way as GP3 - all parameters the same. Ian, I just wanted to make clear the force feedback is great now in GP3. Finally both in terms of force feedback and car behaviour I can feel what the car is doing. As I said in my review, when entering a corner a bit too fast, the rear steps out, and most of the times I can catch the spin, except when I really overdid the corner. It can very well be that the ff was allready great in GP3, but as I wrote in my review, I discovered the setup guide on bhmotorsports after I installed GP3 2k, so it could very well be the ff was lacking on my system in GP3 because of a bad controller setup. You seem to have worse ff and worse car behaviour in GP3 2000. You mention the car feels like it's riding on rails. If that is the case then there must be something wrong with your configuration. Don't ask me what, but do try to investigate what can be wrong because GP3 2000, when setup correctly, definately feels not like riding on rails. I found it even funny how I could use some of my GPL drifting techniques in GP3 2000 again :)) >Finally, I didn't ever say I had no problems with the AI in F1RC, just a lot >less than some people were suggesting! Well we can talk a lot about how good or bad the AI is, I tried them a lot, and the biggest problems I had with the F1RC AI was that they allmost allways caused huge crashed during the start, were too fast in corners and way too slow on the straights. You -could- race with them, but I was only worrying about how to avoid those crazy kamikaze drivers. In GP3 2000 I had some serious good battles with the AI. I race them on ace level (I'm too slow for Pro level yet :) and the AI are hard but fair drivers. Major difference compared to the F1RC drivers. Untill I tried GP3 2000 I thought the AI in GPL was pretty good, but now I realized they are just drones running around in the same patterns. In GP3 2k the AI actually seems to have situational awareness. Just simply fantastic. >However, you're right, that it is weird how different sims seem to take on >toally different characteristics depending on the system they are run on. Don't misunderstand me btw, I'm not bashing you (or what was the correct word again), just trying to help here. As you understood by now I was very pleasantly surprised with GP3 2000, and I was very surprised when I read your negative comments. So.. I hope you can figure out why GP3 2k isn't behaving on your system as it should do. Andre

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:16:12 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote: >I agree there, I didn't see any great change, only updated graphics >for 2000. Graphics still are very average, and I do run in 1280 with all details on, but we've been spoiled with F1RC's outstanding graphics. The tracks do have more detail though in GP3 2k, much more trackobjects etc. >>- still got the 'sky messages' > >Not sure what you mean by this? The annoying 'Verstappen is in the pits' messages on the top of the screen. A bit arcade.>Problem for me, and also for Andre I'd say, is that we never really >Mind you, GP3 should always have had this stuff from day 1 Couldn't agree more :)) Andre >Rafe Mc

> >- frame rate is much worse for me. At 1280 GP3 has a processor occupancyof > >about 40-50%, with 2000 at the same resolution the occupancy is about180%! > > That is weird, I get a lower occupancy than in GP3 (not by much > though, just a bit). Something's not right then. Framerate here is really bad in 2000 (allmost not playable in 800x600), but in org. GP3 it runs OK at 1280x1024! Can it have something to do AMD / Intel or maybe a videocard problem? My system: 1200 Mhz T.bird 384 Mb Ram. Geforce 2 GTS 32 Mb (Detonater 12.90) Windows 2000 Pro. What is your systems? Especially you who has a framerate improvement? -- -- Sven

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:59:06 +0200, "B.T." <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>My system: >1200 Mhz T.bird >384 Mb Ram. >Geforce 2 GTS 32 Mb (Detonater 12.90) >Windows 2000 Pro. > >What is your systems? Especially you who has a framerate improvement?

P3 866 256mb ram GF2 GTS 32 (det 12.60) Win98 Processor Occupancy is mostly under 100% in 1280x1024 res with all details on and EAX on. Ian, are you running under W2000 perhaps? Seems to be the only real difference between BT's and my system.. Andre

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:49:12 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:59:06 +0200, "B.T." <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>My system: >>1200 Mhz T.bird >>384 Mb Ram. >>Geforce 2 GTS 32 Mb (Detonater 12.90) >>Windows 2000 Pro. >> >>What is your systems? Especially you who has a framerate improvement? > >P3 866 >256mb ram >GF2 GTS 32 (det 12.60) >Win98 > >Processor Occupancy is mostly under 100% in 1280x1024 res with all >details on and EAX on.

My system is 1.4ghz Tbird 256mb RAM V3 3000 (o'clocked to 200mhz) win98SE I'm able to run 1280x1024 now, where 1024 was my best in GP3. I was *almost* able to run 1280 before, but PO was too marginal. Pretty much alright now. Rafe Mc

Andre I'm running under XP which runs all other sims/games better than WinME. However, I think this may be the problem as it doesn't recognise my SBLive card and I can't get EAX etc. Strange, this is the only problem I've had with XP so far. Iain "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:59:06 +0200, "B.T." <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >My system: > >1200 Mhz T.bird > >384 Mb Ram. > >Geforce 2 GTS 32 Mb (Detonater 12.90) > >Windows 2000 Pro. > > > >What is your systems? Especially you who has a framerate improvement? > > P3 866 > 256mb ram > GF2 GTS 32 (det 12.60) > Win98 > > Processor Occupancy is mostly under 100% in 1280x1024 res with all > details on and EAX on. > > Ian, are you running under W2000 perhaps? Seems to be the only real > difference between BT's and my system.. > > Andre

I've now resolved the sound problem and get full surround and EAX, however the graphics issue is weird. No matter what res I set it to the performance is equally bad. At 1280 1024 or 800 the occupancy in a race is still near 200% basically making it impossible to use. It's fine in practice mode though with occs of around 50%. Iain "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:h%Hh7.55403$[email hidden]...

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> Andre > I'm running under XP which runs all other sims/games better than WinME. > However, I think this may be the problem as it doesn't recognise my SBLive > card and I can't get EAX etc. Strange, this is the only problem I've had > with XP so far. > Iain > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:59:06 +0200, "B.T." <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >My system: > > >1200 Mhz T.bird > > >384 Mb Ram. > > >Geforce 2 GTS 32 Mb (Detonater 12.90) > > >Windows 2000 Pro. > > > > > >What is your systems? Especially you who has a framerate improvement? > > > > P3 866 > > 256mb ram > > GF2 GTS 32 (det 12.60) > > Win98 > > > > Processor Occupancy is mostly under 100% in 1280x1024 res with all > > details on and EAX on. > > > > Ian, are you running under W2000 perhaps? Seems to be the only real > > difference between BT's and my system.. > > > > Andre > >

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> >Processor Occupancy is mostly under 100% in 1280x1024 res with all > >details on and EAX on. > > My system is 1.4ghz Tbird > 256mb RAM > V3 3000 (o'clocked to 200mhz) > win98SE > > I'm able to run 1280x1024 now, where 1024 was my best in GP3. I was > *almost* able to run 1280 before, but PO was too marginal. Pretty much > alright now. > > Rafe Mc

Interesting. Then it might not have anything to do with AMD, or maybe AMD + win2k or AMD + Nvidia or AMD + win2k + nvidia. Still too many options. Anyone can make GP3 2000 run under win2k or winXP with good framerates? -- -- Sven

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> >Processor Occupancy is mostly under 100% in 1280x1024 res with all > >details on and EAX on. > > My system is 1.4ghz Tbird > 256mb RAM > V3 3000 (o'clocked to 200mhz) > win98SE > > I'm able to run 1280x1024 now, where 1024 was my best in GP3. I was > *almost* able to run 1280 before, but PO was too marginal. Pretty much > alright now. > > Rafe Mc

Interesting. Then it might not have anything to do with AMD, or maybe AMD + win2k or AMD + Nvidia or AMD + win2k + nvidia. Still too many options. Anyone can make GP3 2000 run under win2k or winXP with good framerates? -- -- Sven

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > patterns. In GP3 2k the AI actually seems to have situational > awareness. Just simply fantastic. > That they have by the bucket load. They do a pretty good job now of avoiding not only cars during an accident, but also the debris. Of course, the CPU load goes wayyyy up in a big wreck. Stephen

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:19:16 +0200, "Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> patterns. In GP3 2k the AI actually seems to have situational >> awareness. Just simply fantastic. >> > >That they have by the bucket load. They do a pretty good job now of >avoiding not only cars during an accident, but also the debris. Of course, >the CPU load goes wayyyy up in a big wreck.

Which is a good sign I think :) Andre >Stephen > >