Gday all
Does anybody know of any links with info on using ethanol for fuel, like
what changes need to be made etc?
cheers
Staf
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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thanks
Staf
Quoted text (10 lines)
> http://www.abcesso.com/ > > http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/ > > http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/getting_started.html > > http://www.gotethanol.com/ > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 >you can also buy a new vehicle with a "flex fuel" engine.
they can run on gas or on 85% ethanol.
of course you can't buy ethanol anywhere in the south, and gas mileage drops an average of 30% if
you do use it.
Well, sometimes no changes are needed, but it varies by vehical.
My 05 explorer is an "FFV" or Flexible-Fuel Vehical.
It is rated for straight gasoline or "E85" Ethanol from the factory. Says
so, right on the gas cap :)
Trivia - Why is it "E85" and not "E100" or, 100% Ethanol?
It has 15% gasoline in it so people wouldn't drink it.
I kid you not.
If your car is not ethanol rated I doubt the conversion would be financially
reasonable. A LOT has to be changed.
-Larry
"pugpep" <pugpep@(remove)iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:433d1e71$0$6529$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Gday all > Does anybody know of any links with info on using ethanol for fuel, like > what changes need to be made etc? > > cheers > Staf >He's correct. Ethanol burns twice as fast as gas to produce the same power.
For E85, I'd say 30% is probably about right.
I'm not sure it's going to matter for much longer. I don't think Ethanol
stands a chance as a replacement for Gasoline.
I believe the two winners in the whole alternate-fuel thing will be:
1. Fuel Cells (once they get production and infrastructure worked out).
2. BioDiesel.
The USA is plumb stupid for snubbing it's nose at Diesel the way it does,
though I think we can thank pictures of mis-tuned trucks and busses going
down the street, the noise of 2-stroke Diesels (I LOVE Diesels and the
2-strokers drive me mad) and last but not least, Oldsmobile, for that
unfortunate fact.
-Larry
"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> you can also buy a new vehicle with a "flex fuel" engine. > they can run on gas or on 85% ethanol. > of course you can't buy ethanol anywhere in the south, and gas mileage > drops an average of 30% if > you do use it. > >And youre not even counting the cost to produce Ethanol. Twice as much as
they can sell it for. Without huge (and I mean HUGE) Gov subsidies Ethanol
wouldnt even be part of our lexicon. The subsidy is set to expire in 2007.
Vegetable oil diesel, now thats economical ;)
Natural Gas is a very good option as well. Personal filling stations
mounted in your garage is the current direction. I dont have the link but I
was just reading about it a few months ago.
Mitch
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:UCc%e.10037$B%5.7793@lakeread06...
Quoted text (29 lines)
> Well, sometimes no changes are needed, but it varies by vehical. > > My 05 explorer is an "FFV" or Flexible-Fuel Vehical. > > It is rated for straight gasoline or "E85" Ethanol from the factory. Says > so, right on the gas cap :) > > Trivia - Why is it "E85" and not "E100" or, 100% Ethanol? > > It has 15% gasoline in it so people wouldn't drink it. > > I kid you not. > > If your car is not ethanol rated I doubt the conversion would be > financially reasonable. A LOT has to be changed. > > -Larry > > "pugpep" <pugpep@(remove)iinet.net.au> wrote in message > news:433d1e71$0$6529$[email hidden]... >> Gday all >> Does anybody know of any links with info on using ethanol for fuel, like >> what changes need to be made etc? >> >> cheers >> Staf >> > >
"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Xzd%e.7901$[email hidden]...
> And youre not even counting the cost to produce Ethanol. Twice as much as
> they can sell it for. Without huge (and I mean HUGE) Gov subsidies Ethanol
> wouldnt even be part of our lexicon. The subsidy is set to expire in 2007.
>
> Vegetable oil diesel, now thats economical ;)
>
On a mass scale bio-diesel has the same or similar cost effectiveness problem as ethanol. You have
to add in the massive energy expense to produce the stuff in large amounts. Sure, getting used stuff
free from the local burger joint is great, but to produce soy beans (or whatever) in major amounts
just isn't cost effective at this point.
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UCc%e.10037$B%5.7793@lakeread06...
Yea, I have the same thing. I couldn't figure out why the hell they sell them in a state where you
can't buy the stuff, (didn't even know I had one till I RTFM), then I found out Ford gets to rank
the class of vehicles at a higher mpg to beat the gov'ts requirements. Which is a farce btw, because
1) you get worse mpg using the E85, and 2) you can't buy the stuff here.
The Gov't required them to sell them in every state to qualify for the higher ranking.
I did read that the E85 is more corrosive than gas, so some of the gaskets are made using a
different compound than normal. I guess that's the only benefit on my end.
> It has 15% gasoline in it so people wouldn't drink it.
>
> I kid you not.
>
Absolutely correct.
> If your car is not ethanol rated I doubt the conversion would be financially
> reasonable. A LOT has to be changed.
>
Indeed.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> Well, sometimes no changes are needed, but it varies by vehical. > > My 05 explorer is an "FFV" or Flexible-Fuel Vehical. > > It is rated for straight gasoline or "E85" Ethanol from the factory. Says > so, right on the gas cap :) > > Trivia - Why is it "E85" and not "E100" or, 100% Ethanol? >Oh, he's in the "south", orright................like, 10,000 miles in
the south. Down Under, with me! :)
I guess Staf's query on ethanol is based on our (federal) government's
knee-jerk reaction - emphasis on the "jerk" - to the increasing cost of
petroleum-based fuels, which is now at (average) AUS$1.35 per litre
(that would be around US$4.00 per gallon). Of course this is now having
a big effect on the cost of living generally.
Our beloved political masters (when will pollies understand that they
work for US?) are very keen to introduce an ethanol cocktail, against
strong advice to the contrary.
These are the same people who, less than a decade ago, popped up the
brilliant idea of banning offensive materials from being transmitted and
accessed via the Internet!
God help mankind.
Dave wrote:
> of course you can't buy ethanol anywhere in the south, and gas mileage drops an average of 30% if
> you do use it.
>
>
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > The USA is plumb stupid for snubbing it's nose at Diesel the way it does, > though I think we can thank pictures of mis-tuned trucks and busses going > down the street, the noise of 2-stroke Diesels (I LOVE Diesels and the > 2-strokers drive me mad) and last but not least, Oldsmobile, for that > unfortunate fact. > > -LarryGMpartsguy wrote:
I've drive Turbo Diesels for the past 5 years now, a VW Passat 94 and an
Opel Omega 99, both chip tuned, more torque than a comparable normally
aspirated petrol engine and a fuel mileage that's almost constant no
matter where or how I drive (within reason) and even at it's worst it's
better than any petrol engined car I've owned
Needless to say I don't miss petrol engines much :)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."
--Our Lord John Cleese--
Quoted text (24 lines)
> > > > > The USA is plumb stupid for snubbing it's nose at Diesel the way it does, > > though I think we can thank pictures of mis-tuned trucks and busses going > > down the street, the noise of 2-stroke Diesels (I LOVE Diesels and the > > 2-strokers drive me mad) and last but not least, Oldsmobile, for that > > unfortunate fact. > > > > -Larry > > More than old busses and trucks, Americans want instant gratification > (i.e., acceleration). That they cant, or dont, is a big misconception with > drivers today. > Sadly enough, the only good mods right now really exist for diesel pickups. > Aftermarket exhaust, and a quick electronic plug in from Banks, Six-Shooter, > etc, makes for tire smoking acceleration. > Another problem is diesel has crept up in price to basically match that of > gas. Anyone old enough to have remembered the "Olds" diesel, is probably > driving a Honda by now anyway (how many of those are available in diesel > outside the US ?). I would also hazzard a guess, and say there were more > Mercedes diesels in the US back then anyway. > Biodiesel will get more distribution soon, and become more popular. Plus > theres no shortage of places to grow more corn. I hear Willie Nelson gives > away a bag of weed with every fillup at his stations !!Natrual Gas scares the shit outta me.
-Larry
"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Xzd%e.7901$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (47 lines)
> And youre not even counting the cost to produce Ethanol. Twice as much as > they can sell it for. Without huge (and I mean HUGE) Gov subsidies > Ethanol wouldnt even be part of our lexicon. The subsidy is set to expire > in 2007. > > Vegetable oil diesel, now thats economical ;) > > Natural Gas is a very good option as well. Personal filling stations > mounted in your garage is the current direction. I dont have the link but > I was just reading about it a few months ago. > > Mitch > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UCc%e.10037$B%5.7793@lakeread06... >> Well, sometimes no changes are needed, but it varies by vehical. >> >> My 05 explorer is an "FFV" or Flexible-Fuel Vehical. >> >> It is rated for straight gasoline or "E85" Ethanol from the factory. >> Says so, right on the gas cap :) >> >> Trivia - Why is it "E85" and not "E100" or, 100% Ethanol? >> >> It has 15% gasoline in it so people wouldn't drink it. >> >> I kid you not. >> >> If your car is not ethanol rated I doubt the conversion would be >> financially reasonable. A LOT has to be changed. >> >> -Larry >> >> "pugpep" <pugpep@(remove)iinet.net.au> wrote in message >> news:433d1e71$0$6529$[email hidden]... >>> Gday all >>> Does anybody know of any links with info on using ethanol for fuel, like >>> what changes need to be made etc? >>> >>> cheers >>> Staf >>> >> >> > >Also, Natural Gas is quickly becomming the fuel rip-off of the century.
Everyone was talked into it, now those NatGas bastaads are becomming as bad
as any oil company, looking for the slightest reason to massively hike
prices.
Those little 'inserts' I get with my Bill every so often make me want to run
over someone with a dump truck.
"We're sorry, but the temperatures this winter were .000000003 percent
higher than expected this year, so NatGas prices will have to increase by
33% this winter because demand is outstripping supply.
-Larry
"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Xzd%e.7901$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (47 lines)
> And youre not even counting the cost to produce Ethanol. Twice as much as > they can sell it for. Without huge (and I mean HUGE) Gov subsidies > Ethanol wouldnt even be part of our lexicon. The subsidy is set to expire > in 2007. > > Vegetable oil diesel, now thats economical ;) > > Natural Gas is a very good option as well. Personal filling stations > mounted in your garage is the current direction. I dont have the link but > I was just reading about it a few months ago. > > Mitch > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UCc%e.10037$B%5.7793@lakeread06... >> Well, sometimes no changes are needed, but it varies by vehical. >> >> My 05 explorer is an "FFV" or Flexible-Fuel Vehical. >> >> It is rated for straight gasoline or "E85" Ethanol from the factory. >> Says so, right on the gas cap :) >> >> Trivia - Why is it "E85" and not "E100" or, 100% Ethanol? >> >> It has 15% gasoline in it so people wouldn't drink it. >> >> I kid you not. >> >> If your car is not ethanol rated I doubt the conversion would be >> financially reasonable. A LOT has to be changed. >> >> -Larry >> >> "pugpep" <pugpep@(remove)iinet.net.au> wrote in message >> news:433d1e71$0$6529$[email hidden]... >>> Gday all >>> Does anybody know of any links with info on using ethanol for fuel, like >>> what changes need to be made etc? >>> >>> cheers >>> Staf >>> >> >> > >I believe Willie Nelson basically strains it and dumps it in the tank :)
His tour-bus is BioDiesel.
-Larry
"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (22 lines)
> > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Xzd%e.7901$[email hidden]... >> And youre not even counting the cost to produce Ethanol. Twice as much >> as >> they can sell it for. Without huge (and I mean HUGE) Gov subsidies >> Ethanol >> wouldnt even be part of our lexicon. The subsidy is set to expire in >> 2007. >> >> Vegetable oil diesel, now thats economical ;) >> > > On a mass scale bio-diesel has the same or similar cost effectiveness > problem as ethanol. You have > to add in the massive energy expense to produce the stuff in large > amounts. Sure, getting used stuff > free from the local burger joint is great, but to produce soy beans (or > whatever) in major amounts > just isn't cost effective at this point. > >I'm not sure what Ford is doing with it's EPA ratings, but they are wonky as
hell.
My Explorer is rated for 15/20.
In actuallity, it gets 9/23.
Oh well, at least I win on the highway side. Unfortunately, finding highway
driving is hard these days.
My combined is about 12.
And I have the V6!
Luckily it's only accumulated 2000 miles in 6 months. Working from home
more often has it's benifits :)
-Larry
"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (44 lines)
> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UCc%e.10037$B%5.7793@lakeread06... >> Well, sometimes no changes are needed, but it varies by vehical. >> >> My 05 explorer is an "FFV" or Flexible-Fuel Vehical. >> >> It is rated for straight gasoline or "E85" Ethanol from the factory. >> Says >> so, right on the gas cap :) >> >> Trivia - Why is it "E85" and not "E100" or, 100% Ethanol? >> > > Yea, I have the same thing. I couldn't figure out why the hell they sell > them in a state where you > can't buy the stuff, (didn't even know I had one till I RTFM), then I > found out Ford gets to rank > the class of vehicles at a higher mpg to beat the gov'ts requirements. > Which is a farce btw, because > 1) you get worse mpg using the E85, and 2) you can't buy the stuff here. > The Gov't required them to sell them in every state to qualify for the > higher ranking. > > I did read that the E85 is more corrosive than gas, so some of the gaskets > are made using a > different compound than normal. I guess that's the only benefit on my end. > > >> It has 15% gasoline in it so people wouldn't drink it. >> >> I kid you not. >> > > Absolutely correct. > >> If your car is not ethanol rated I doubt the conversion would be >> financially >> reasonable. A LOT has to be changed. >> > > Indeed. > >Personally, I get far more gratification from a Diesels low-end torque than
I do high-speed horsepower of Gas. I guess it got embedded in me in my
Muscle-Car days.
If you never drove GTO's, Camaro's, or the holy-grail of Muscle-Car torque,
the 1970 Chevelle 454 LS6, then you missed an important part of life every
growing boy should never miss :)
These high-winding, ball-less at the bottom end japanese wonders that are
around these days don't impress me at all.
My Taurus with the 3.0 SOHC was the same way. It didn't wake up until it
was on the cams at around 3000 RPM, and it drove me plumb nuts.
-Larry
"GMpartsguy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (28 lines)
> > >> The USA is plumb stupid for snubbing it's nose at Diesel the way it does, >> though I think we can thank pictures of mis-tuned trucks and busses going >> down the street, the noise of 2-stroke Diesels (I LOVE Diesels and the >> 2-strokers drive me mad) and last but not least, Oldsmobile, for that >> unfortunate fact. >> >> -Larry > > More than old busses and trucks, Americans want instant gratification > (i.e., acceleration). That they cant, or dont, is a big misconception with > drivers today. > Sadly enough, the only good mods right now really exist for diesel > pickups. > Aftermarket exhaust, and a quick electronic plug in from Banks, > Six-Shooter, > etc, makes for tire smoking acceleration. > Another problem is diesel has crept up in price to basically match that of > gas. Anyone old enough to have remembered the "Olds" diesel, is probably > driving a Honda by now anyway (how many of those are available in diesel > outside the US ?). I would also hazzard a guess, and say there were more > Mercedes diesels in the US back then anyway. > Biodiesel will get more distribution soon, and become more popular. Plus > theres no shortage of places to grow more corn. I hear Willie Nelson gives > away a bag of weed with every fillup at his stations !! > > >The new(ish) Jeep Liberty CRD almost got me back to Chrysler Corp in March,
but it didn't have the $11,000 discount I got on the Explorer so it lost.
It's a little small for me too, being 6'4", 300lbs.
The fact that the diesel was made in Israel worried me a bit too, but I
stopped worrying when I figured that anything that could survive over there
should be good for life over here :)
-Larry
"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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