OT: ITV being retarded

Will somebody please explain to ITV that Burti's horrific accident did NOT occur at Blanchimont, it actually took place at the kink before it. If we don't clear this up then the people will call for radical changes at Blanchimont when it was not even involved. I personally think Burti was extremely lucky that the nose remained intact, especially as the angle of collision with the tyres was quite shallow. Perhaps next year he will blend out of the throttle and wait for the stupid little Bus Stop chicane before attempting any overtaking. It is daft to risk an accident like that by trying to go up the inside of another car who is least expecting any move at that part of the track. Lets hope he makes a full recovery and the lesson is not as costly as it could have been.

"Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Will somebody please explain to ITV that Burti's horrific accident did NOT > occur at Blanchimont, it actually took place at the kink before it. If we > don't clear this up then the people will call for radical changes at > Blanchimont when it was not even involved. >I think the race organizers are aware of exactly where the accident happened. Do you really think they pay any attention to Murray Walker and Co. ?

Irvine is supposed to be F1 driver, not an idiot. And that is supposed to be F1 race, not a child play. And F1 driver is supposed to be aware of his surrounding. If he doesn't have big enough mirrors he ought to buy himself bigger. F1 driver is suppoused to have enough money. "Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Perhaps next year he will blend out of the throttle and wait for thestupid > little Bus Stop chicane before attempting any overtaking. It is daft torisk > an accident like that by trying to go up the inside of another car who is > least expecting any move at that part of the track. Lets hope he makes a > full recovery and the lesson is not as costly as it could have been. > >

Catisfit <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Will somebody please explain to ITV that Burti's horrific accident did NOT > occur at Blanchimont, it actually took place at the kink before it. If we > don't clear this up then the people will call for radical changes at > Blanchimont when it was not even involved. LOL! You really need to understand that there are MANY MANY MANY other (usually a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable) commentary crews than the whole ITV cast. I don't think ANYONE either knows, cares or gives a damn what Murray Walker or a sad little man like Brundle thinks.

"GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oGvk7.131$[email hidden]... > > Catisfit <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Will somebody please explain to ITV that Burti's horrific accident didNOT > > occur at Blanchimont, it actually took place at the kink before it. Ifwe > > don't clear this up then the people will call for radical changes at > > Blanchimont when it was not even involved. > > LOL! You really need to understand that there are MANY MANY MANY other > (usually a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable) commentary crews thanthe > whole ITV cast. I don't think ANYONE either knows, cares or gives a damn > what Murray Walker or a sad little man like Brundle thinks. > I don't think it's incorrect to say the accident was at Blanchimont, as that is the nearest named part of the circuit. The area in question is also definitely part of the photograph of blanchimont on the official Spa Francorchamps circuit web page. Maybe they need to be told what's what also. As to the quality of Walker and Brundles commentary, well Murray gets it wrong, but in over 50 years of grand prix commentating, he's forgotten more about F1 than you or I will ever know. Show some respect. Brundle has rarely been wrong in his technical assessments of given situations, and is a very informed and informative commentator, in my experience. So you think wrong. cheers John

GraDee <[email hidden]> wrote on 02 Sep 2001: <snip> >I don't think ANYONE either knows, > cares or gives a damn what Murray Walker or a sad little man like > Brundle thinks. In a word: rubbish. Still, far more important is that Burti somehow seems to have got away without any really serious injuries. I believe Schumacher (M) said after the race that he believed Burti would have died a few years ago in this situation, and I can well believe it. -- "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Well he's way better than some F1 former champions, according to Irvine in RACER magazine. lol -- Sean Higgins Redline Racing League www.rrlnrs.com Redline BGN Division http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/RRL/ "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9mtkfp$81r8$[email hidden]... > Irvine is supposed to be F1 driver, not an idiot. And that is > supposed to be F1 race, not a child play. And F1 driver is > supposed to be aware of his surrounding. If he doesn't have big > enough mirrors he ought to buy himself bigger. F1 driver is > suppoused to have enough money. > > > "Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Perhaps next year he will blend out of the throttle and wait for the > stupid > > little Bus Stop chicane before attempting any overtaking. It is daft to > risk > > an accident like that by trying to go up the inside of another car who is > > least expecting any move at that part of the track. Lets hope he makes a > > full recovery and the lesson is not as costly as it could have been. > > > > > >

Martin Brundle knows his stuff. Since you appear not to already know this, maybe you don't know yours. I admit I find Murray occasionally irritating though, because he does make lots of mistakes, and even poor judgements, and Brundle is forever having to correct him. Needless to say, the pit-lane reporters on ITV, James Allen, Louise Goodman and the new bloke are all terrible. "GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oGvk7.131$[email hidden]... > > LOL! You really need to understand that there are MANY MANY MANY other > (usually a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable) commentary crews thanthe > whole ITV cast. I don't think ANYONE either knows, cares or gives a damn > what Murray Walker or a sad little man like Brundle thinks. > >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<usIk7.88733$[email hidden]>...

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> Martin Brundle knows his stuff. Since you appear not to already know this, > maybe you don't know yours. > > I admit I find Murray occasionally irritating though, because he does make > lots of mistakes, and even poor judgements, and Brundle is forever having to > correct him. > > Needless to say, the pit-lane reporters on ITV, James Allen, Louise Goodman > and the new bloke are all terrible. >

IMHO, the combination that is Walker/Brundle is a triumph in complimentary commentary (trying saying that after a few beers!). Martin Brundle always gently and politely corrects Murray, while Mr Walker can be forgiven if you take into account his age and his enormous knowledge of the sport. I think his enthusiasm should be applauded. As for the rest; I think James Allen is fine, but Louise Goodman always seems to interview someone just at a crucial part of the race, and what's with all those bangles??

Nobody expects to be passed there, as the line into Blanchimont is quite fussy. He was concentrating on his entry, when the accident happened. Even if his Stavelot exit was poor, he would not expect another driver to try and make it two wide towards that particular corner. I think he should be commended for helping in the 'rescue' operation.

That Louise Goodman is hopeless. she's only there as the token female. James Allen has the knowledge but he tends to talk 'down' to the viewer. Martin Brundle is an excellent commentator. Murray is Murray - the mistakes are quite funny but nobody can emulate the way his voice alters in pitch from a low, tragic voice when there is an incident to high-pitched screams at a pass. I would like to see (hear?) Murray do an IRL race, just for the screams of excitement!

I must respond to you once again. I have good opinion about Irvine as a driver. He rarely makes mistakes. But he made one now. And it was clear from his behaving after accident. It was race and in race you should expect to be passed ANYWHERE. Burti made good job, and other drivers should watch more carefuly when Burti comes behind. You cannot blame driver for making good job and in the same time trying to find excuse for other driver mistake. "Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Nobody expects to be passed there, as the line into Blanchimont is quite > fussy. He was concentrating on his entry, when the accident happened. Even > if his Stavelot exit was poor, he would not expect another driver to tryand > make it two wide towards that particular corner. I think he should be > commended for helping in the 'rescue' operation. > >

"Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Nobody expects to be passed there, as the line into Blanchimont is quite > fussy. He was concentrating on his entry, when the accident happened. Even > if his Stavelot exit was poor, he would not expect another driver to tryand > make it two wide towards that particular corner. I think he should be > commended for helping in the 'rescue' operation. > > I'd like to see some of these armchair experts explain how they'd change their line to allow another car through at 190mph in a flat out non-banked left hander. Irvine was already committed to his line, he couldn't move aside. Or how many of them have cussed the GPL n00b they ran into the back of because "they didn't expect them to brake so early". etc etc etc. cheers John

Well, that one realy is a close call. The trick is in watching your mirrors. If guy behind is close enough to stick his nose inside, you drive more conservative. You must drive more conservative at the apex, and he must be conservative at the exit. Othervise you will push him out at apex, or he will push you out at exit. That's why defensive driving is slower than normal. Irvine didn't do his part right. It isn't the only corner in F1 where guy can stick his nose inside, but I admit it's prety difficult. "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1ARk7.37043$[email hidden]... > > "Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Nobody expects to be passed there, as the line into Blanchimont is quite > > fussy. He was concentrating on his entry, when the accident happened.Even

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> > if his Stavelot exit was poor, he would not expect another driver to try > and > > make it two wide towards that particular corner. I think he should be > > commended for helping in the 'rescue' operation. > > > > > > I'd like to see some of these armchair experts explain how they'd change > their line to allow another car through at 190mph in a flat out non-banked > left hander. Irvine was already committed to his line, he couldn't move > aside. > > Or how many of them have cussed the GPL n00b they ran into the back of > because "they didn't expect them to brake so early". etc etc etc. > > cheers > John > > >

Sorry but you're wrong. Trying to overtake on the inside of a 5th gear corner is madness, Berti should have had the sense to back off. I wouldn't try to overtake there even in a game. There's no way Irvine could have expected someone to be there. By your reasonning you are saying that if the incedent was entirely Burti's fault, then Irvine wouldn't have helped? That's just crazy. "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9n0no8$bvia$[email hidden]...

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> I must respond to you once again. I have good opinion > about Irvine as a driver. He rarely makes mistakes. But he made > one now. And it was clear from his behaving after accident. It > was race and in race you should expect to be passed ANYWHERE. > Burti made good job, and other drivers should watch more carefuly > when Burti comes behind. > You cannot blame driver for making good job and in the same > time trying to find excuse for other driver mistake. > >

Catisfit <[email hidden]> wrote on 03 Sep 2001: > That Louise Goodman is hopeless. she's only there as the token > female. I'm afraid I have to agree. I've had it up to here with "Mika, you must be disappointed to have retired on lap 2 for the 7th consecutive time", and other such platitudes. I appreciate that "Hey, Mika, isn't your car a hopeless pile of shite?" might not go down too well, but come *on*. > James Allen has the knowledge but he tends to talk 'down' > to the viewer. A bit, yes, although I think he's improved a lot this year. If only he'd leave the expert summarising to Brundle instead of showing off, he should make a fine commentator. >Martin Brundle is an excellent commentator. I disagree - he's an excellent *expert summariser*, but his voice isn't suited for lap after lap. Martin is best when he makes his quick, sharp digs at various hopeless idiots - perhaps that's why he finds it harder to get people to talk to him on the grid than he used to! Brundle & Ecclestone is a great double act. > Murray > is Murray - the mistakes are quite funny but nobody can emulate the > way his voice alters in pitch from a low, tragic voice when there > is an incident to high-pitched screams at a pass. That's true - I've never heard any impressionist get even close. Even ("the great") Rory Bremner's version is mediocre at best. Still, the real thing is a one-off, and a very fine man. >I would like to > see (hear?) Murray do an IRL race, just for the screams of > excitement! I don't think it would work - Murray needs to know and care about the drivers involved, and frankly virtually no-one in Europe has the slightest interest in IRL. -- "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Well, overtaking took place and Irvine was the one who reacted badly. He , according to you, didn't consider that posibility. Well, he had to. That way he left himself with only one solution, to push Burti out. Which is not solution. Burti didn't do any mistake, his racing was clean, it wasn't he who pushed anybody out of the track. He was pushed. More I wrote in another post in this thread "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wkTk7.92385$[email hidden]... > Sorry but you're wrong. Trying to overtake on the inside of a 5th gear > corner is madness, Berti should have had the sense to back off. Iwouldn't > try to overtake there even in a game. There's no way Irvine could have > expected someone to be there. > > By your reasonning you are saying that if the incedent was entirelyBurti's

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> fault, then Irvine wouldn't have helped? That's just crazy. > > "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9n0no8$bvia$[email hidden]... > > I must respond to you once again. I have good opinion > > about Irvine as a driver. He rarely makes mistakes. But he made > > one now. And it was clear from his behaving after accident. It > > was race and in race you should expect to be passed ANYWHERE. > > Burti made good job, and other drivers should watch more carefuly > > when Burti comes behind. > > You cannot blame driver for making good job and in the same > > time trying to find excuse for other driver mistake. > > > > > > >

>I would like to see (hear?) Murray do an IRL race, just for the >screams of excitement! There would be screams of excitement at an IRL race??? Rafe Mc

There would be screams of e***ment at an IRL race??? Rafe Mc

Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > > >I would like to see (hear?) Murray do an IRL race, just for the > >screams of excitement! > > There would be screams of excitement at an IRL race??? Actually, if Murray Walker is comentating.....yes, believe or not :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Attempting an overtaking manoeuvre on the inside of such a fast turn was crazy. It should give you a clue who was at fault that Eddie's rear tyre took off Berti's front wing, so Berti was trying a move, yet he wasn't even half along side. As for Eddie not looking in his mirrors, there's no reason to look in your mirrors when turning in for an >150 mph turn since you would never expect anyone to overtake you there. F1 drivers can't spend the whole race looking in their mirrors. Go stick an F1 game on (GP3, F1RC or whatever) and try a move at that turn. There's virtually no overtaking in super-fast corners in circuit racing anywhere. A corner like that has only one line. Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell (both ex-f1 drivers) who do the commentary/analysis on F1 on UK tv also both blamed Berti for the incident. "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9n151l$de4s$[email hidden]...

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> Well, overtaking took place and Irvine was the one who reacted > badly. He , according to you, didn't consider that posibility. Well, he > had to. That way he left himself with only one solution, to push Burti > out. Which is not solution. Burti didn't do any mistake, his racing was > clean, it wasn't he who pushed anybody out of the track. He was > pushed. More I wrote in another post in this thread > >

I think James Allen is a pratt. His 'theories' are usually either fanciful or ridiculous. About half his theories are proved wrong within ten seconds, when the commentary goes back to Brundle, who has to correct him. The other half are proved wrong when we hear the interviews with the drivers and team bosses at the end of the race. Louise Goodman just doesn't know her stuff, and ends up asking really dumb questions in interviews. Brundle is definitely the star of the show. Even if there were no motor racing, I'd still tune in just to hear him being witty :) "Catisfit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > That Louise Goodman is hopeless. she's only there as the token female.James > Allen has the knowledge but he tends to talk 'down' to the viewer. Martin > Brundle is an excellent commentator. Murray is Murray - the mistakes are > quite funny but nobody can emulate the way his voice alters in pitch froma > low, tragic voice when there is an incident to high-pitched screams at a > pass. I would like to see (hear?) Murray do an IRL race, just for the > screams of excitement! > >

Try spelling the guy's name right when you accuse him of something. Primo: Burti was further alongside, he managed to back out enough to only be hit at the front. Secundo: the section where the accident took place is the run up to a fast turn and can be taken side by side (IMO), there was no need for Irvine to close the door other than not having to yield at Blanchimont. Tertio: if you're slow off the "raccordement" (official name for the righthander(s) leading to section where the accident took place) and leave a gap, the guy behind is going to stick his car in it and put you before a "faite accomplis" come Blanchimont. Seen that done many times, even in open wheel type events. Not saying the move wasn't opportunistic and perhaps ill advised given the speeds involved, but IMO one just doesn't squeeze out an opponent at over 300kph, regardless of how silly his move is. Even if F1's need to apex that kink (which I think unlikely seeing as Burti obviously thought it could be taken side by side) he started moving over earlier than nescessary, again: IMO. Jan. =---

Well, not being one to agree that he should have attempted a move there, I don't think you can say there is only one line. The run up to Blanchimont *could* have two cars side by side, if the two drivers knew beforehand. The kinks are flat out sweepers, but the problem is that no driver ever really expects someone to poke their nose in. Mind you, this is all based on GP3, so I can't really say what the drivers would think reasonable. He really should have waited to have a go at the Bus stop or after Eau Rouge. Just too fast a corner and too unexpected (for Irvine) to have a go. Rafe Mc On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:45:00 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Attempting an overtaking manoeuvre on the inside of such a fast turn was >crazy. It should give you a clue who was at fault that Eddie's rear tyre >took off Berti's front wing, so Berti was trying a move, yet he wasn't even >half along side. > >As for Eddie not looking in his mirrors, there's no reason to look in your >mirrors when turning in for an >150 mph turn since you would never expect >anyone to overtake you there. F1 drivers can't spend the whole race looking >in their mirrors. Go stick an F1 game on (GP3, F1RC or whatever) and try a >move at that turn. There's virtually no overtaking in super-fast corners in >circuit racing anywhere. A corner like that has only one line. > >Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell (both ex-f1 drivers) who do the >commentary/analysis on F1 on UK tv also both blamed Berti for the incident. > >"Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9n151l$de4s$[email hidden]... >> Well, overtaking took place and Irvine was the one who reacted >> badly. He , according to you, didn't consider that posibility. Well, he >> had to. That way he left himself with only one solution, to push Burti >> out. Which is not solution. Burti didn't do any mistake, his racing was >> clean, it wasn't he who pushed anybody out of the track. He was >> pushed. More I wrote in another post in this thread >> >> > >

I disagree. I'm convinced Eddie didn't have a clue the guy was there. He wouldn't risk ruining his own race by just driving into someone, that doesn't make sense. F1 cars break way too easily for someone to risk that (unless it's for a championship). Again, there is very little if any overtaking in that kind of corner in F1. Have a look at the turn in F1RC, which is pretty accurate with it's GPS. It's more than just a kink. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2P4l7.35070$[email hidden]... > Try spelling the guy's name right when you accuse him of something. > > Primo: Burti was further alongside, he managed to back out enough to onlybe

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> hit at the front. > > Secundo: the section where the accident took place is the run up to a fast > turn and can be taken side by side (IMO), there was no need for Irvine to > close the door other than not having to yield at Blanchimont. > > Tertio: if you're slow off the "raccordement" (official name for the > righthander(s) leading to section where the accident took place) and leave

a > gap, the guy behind is going to stick his car in it and put you before a > "faite accomplis" come Blanchimont. Seen that done many times, even inopen > wheel type events. > > Not saying the move wasn't opportunistic and perhaps ill advised given the > speeds involved, but IMO one just doesn't squeeze out an opponent at over > 300kph, regardless of how silly his move is. Even if F1's need to apexthat

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> kink (which I think unlikely seeing as Burti obviously thought it could be > taken side by side) he started moving over earlier than nescessary, again: > IMO. > > Jan. > =--- > > >

Ok sorry, my mistake. I didn't realize the turn was flat. So there are two lines through there. You wouldn't ever choose the outside line though, since it's slower (because it's a longer route). The fact that there was a collision tells me that Eddie didn't know Burti was there. It wasn't a sudden shutting of the door, but a smooth turn in from Eddie, so he was taking his normal line. If you're going to shut the door, you do it agressively, so the guy has plenty of room to back off. "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, not being one to agree that he should have attempted a move > there, I don't think you can say there is only one line. The run up to > Blanchimont *could* have two cars side by side, if the two drivers > knew beforehand. The kinks are flat out sweepers, but the problem is > that no driver ever really expects someone to poke their nose in. Mind > you, this is all based on GP3, so I can't really say what the drivers > would think reasonable. > > He really should have waited to have a go at the Bus stop or after Eau > Rouge. Just too fast a corner and too unexpected (for Irvine) to have > a go. > > Rafe Mc >

Ok, I was a bit wrong there, I thought the turn was slower. It's easily flat out (it's certainly not a kink though). That doesn't change the fact that you need to take the line of least resistance, and that means driving right up to the apex. Staying in the right hand lane is gonna cost you a tenth since it's further to travel. You would never choose to stick to the right, since it's not the natural line, *unless* you knew there was someone alongside. Hence Eddie didn't know there was someone alongside. "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g05l7.96705$[email hidden]...

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> I disagree. I'm convinced Eddie didn't have a clue the guy was there. He > wouldn't risk ruining his own race by just driving into someone, that > doesn't make sense. F1 cars break way too easily for someone to risk that > (unless it's for a championship). Again, there is very little if any > overtaking in that kind of corner in F1. Have a look at the turn in F1RC, > which is pretty accurate with it's GPS. It's more than just a kink. >

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g05l7.96705$[email hidden]... > I disagree. I'm convinced Eddie didn't have a clue the guy was there. I cannot see how the fact that he didn't have a clue can be explained in Irvines favour.

So you are saying that if Eddie didn't know Burti was trying a move, and didn't know he was there, then it's still Eddies fault? If you turn-in on someone and you didn't know they were there, you can't be blaimed for it if it's not a standard overtaking point. Plus Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell have actually driven that corner in real F1 cars in real F1 races, so they should know what they are talking about. They both blaimed Burti. This whole debate started because you claimed that Eddie trying to get Burti out of the car was proof that the whole incident was Eddies fault, which is clearly wrong. So you are claiming Eddie would only try and save someone else life because he felt guilty? You obviously don't have much respect for the guy. "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9n2oh9$fltj$[email hidden]...

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> > "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:g05l7.96705$[email hidden]... > > I disagree. I'm convinced Eddie didn't have a clue the guy was there. > > I cannot see how the fact that he didn't have a clue can be > explained in Irvines favour.

"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:g14l7.96326$[email hidden]... > Attempting an overtaking manoeuvre on the inside of such a fast turn was > crazy. It should give you a clue who was at fault that Eddie's rear tyre > took off Berti's front wing, so Berti was trying a move, yet he wasn'teven > half along side. That accident was very similar to an American CART race several years ago. Michael Andretti was quite a few car lengths ahead of Al Unser Jr. at Road America. Comming onto the long Morraine straight, MA bobbled just a tiny bit. Jr had nailed the corner and was comming hell bent for Andretti...the two met jusssst as the track squeezes to the right.....end of race....The fastest part of the track, the lead guy NEVER suspected the other driver was there, the faster car in both cases got chopped. At least in the old CART wreck the driver walked away. Here's hoping Burti makes a quick recovery. It's racing folks...you don't get too many chances to pass. ask David Coulthard. dave henrie > > As for Eddie not looking in his mirrors, there's no reason to look in your > mirrors when turning in for an >150 mph turn since you would never expect > anyone to overtake you there. F1 drivers can't spend the whole racelooking > in their mirrors. Go stick an F1 game on (GP3, F1RC or whatever) and trya > move at that turn. There's virtually no overtaking in super-fast cornersin > circuit racing anywhere. A corner like that has only one line. Well no...a corner like that can be taken two wide..if the outside driver is aware of the inside car AND if he lifts off the throttle to make the wider exit angle. Otherwise bad things will happen. dh

"Simon Brown> This whole debate started because you claimed that Eddie trying to get Burti > out of the car was proof that the whole incident was Eddies fault, whichis > clearly wrong. So you are claiming Eddie would only try and save someone > else life because he felt guilty? You obviously don't have much respectfor > the guy. Remember Burti was a former teammate of Eddie's . I don't know how well they got along, but the fact that Irvine's car was also disabled, and he had a front row seat of Burti's accident, most likely promted him into action. If he had suffered only minor damage or a flat tire.. "most" likely he would have carried on to the pits. EI is loud, obnoxious, egotistical, but I haven't seen anything in his driving or in interviews that would make him out to be a cruel uncarring fellow. dave henrie

I have respect for Irvine. I said I think he is good driver. But not seeing other driver overtaking him is clearly his mistake. Not excuse. He isn't alone at the track. There are standard overtaking points, but there are nonstandard too. I didn't see white line on the track. It's not road. I didn't see yellow flags too. There will be yellow flags if it is forbiden to overtake at that place for some reson. I didn't hear Brundle and Blundell, but can imagine they are much better friends with Irvine than with Burti. They probably just tried to cut responsability from Irvine in that horrific moment. P.S.: I consider this friendly chat. I respect your opinion as much as I respect your passion (racing ).:-) "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tj6l7.97123$[email hidden]... > So you are saying that if Eddie didn't know Burti was trying a move, and > didn't know he was there, then it's still Eddies fault? If you turn-in on > someone and you didn't know they were there, you can't be blaimed for itif

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> it's not a standard overtaking point. > > Plus Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell have actually driven that corner in > real F1 cars in real F1 races, so they should know what they are talking > about. They both blaimed Burti. > > This whole debate started because you claimed that Eddie trying to get

Burti > out of the car was proof that the whole incident was Eddies fault, whichis > clearly wrong. So you are claiming Eddie would only try and save someone > else life because he felt guilty? You obviously don't have much respectfor > the guy. >

Please tell Eurosport aswell - they reported that the incident had occured in Eau Rouge!! -- ed_ > Catisfit wrote: > > Will somebody please explain to ITV that Burti's horrific accident did NOT > > occur at Blanchimont, it actually took place at the kink before it. If we > > don't clear this up then the people will call for radical changes at > > Blanchimont when it was not even involved.

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:HR6l7.9188$[email hidden]... > Please tell Eurosport aswell - they reported that the incident had occured > in Eau Rouge!! > > -- > ed_ It's shame such a big track gets compressed onto one complex of turns. Thats like saying all accidents at Le Mans happen on the Mulsaane straight or Turn One at Indy. Still, as the Winston Cup boys say... THe stick and ball broadcasters don't understand or even WANT to understand racing. dave henrie

Imho, this incident was just one of those... "- Hey look! my balls are bigger than your's! - Oh no they aint - take a look at these! - Yeah right! You call *that* big? See what happens if I put my gigantic balls inside yours?!!? - You dont dare pass my extremely huge and massive-beyond-all-know-measures balls! - Like hell I do!! Watch this........ - OH CRAP!" -- ed_ -- NOTE! Return address is *not* my own - but the e-mail address to some spammers that has bothered me one time to many! This weeks winners: [email hidden] - Eat this - suckers!

In article <g14l7.96326$[email hidden]>, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> writes: >Attempting an overtaking manoeuvre on the inside of such a fast turn was >crazy. It should give you a clue who was at fault that Eddie's rear tyre >took off Berti's front wing, so Berti was trying a move, yet he wasn't even >half along side. I think Burti backed out at the last minute. He was farther alongside. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Stick and ball broadcasters?? Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Dave Henrie" wrote...

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> <snip> > It's shame such a big track gets compressed onto one > complex of turns. Thats like saying all accidents at > Le Mans happen on the Mulsaane straight or Turn One > at Indy. Still, as the Winston Cup boys say... THe > stick and ball broadcasters don't understand or even > WANT to understand racing. > dave henrie > >

> P.S.: I consider this friendly chat. I respect your opinion as > much as I respect your passion (racing ).:-) Well said. Excuse the unfriendly tone in my previous posts :) "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9n2tfv$fuck$[email hidden]...

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> I have respect for Irvine. I said I think he is good driver. But > not seeing other driver overtaking him is clearly his mistake. Not > excuse. He isn't alone at the track. > There are standard overtaking points, but there are nonstandard > too. I didn't see white line on the track. It's not road. I didn't see > yellow flags too. There will be yellow flags if it is forbiden to > overtake at that place for some reson. > I didn't hear Brundle and Blundell, but can imagine they are > much better friends with Irvine than with Burti. They probably just > tried to cut responsability from Irvine in that horrific moment.

I've been listenning to Brundle for a few years doing the F1 commentary, and he's always straight forward and honest. He gives all the british drivers plenty of stick when they make mistakes (even David Coulthard, and Brundle is his manager). This debate isn't really going anywhere, since I'm not going to back down on the main point, namely that I don't believe that's a part of the course where you can expect to be overtaken, and that Eddie shouldn't need to be looking in his mirrors there. Roughly 180 mph, flat out turn, doesn't sound like a great place to overtake to me. Clearly you don't agree with that, maybe we should just agree to disagree.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Stick and ball broadcasters?? > > Jan. hockey, basketball, football(all kinds), tennis, golf, baseball... Basically the 90% of sports broadcasting that isn't motor racing (minus athletics). I've seen a few races on TV where some gymkhana or golfing commentator's been shoved into the seat to talk about motor racing. It's not a pretty sight ;o) cheers John

Ah... I see. Thanks! Over here the stations don't really have their own commentators outside the major sports (soccer, cycling) either and commenting is done by freelance specialist newspaper and magazine journo's Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "JM" wrote...

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> <snip> > hockey, basketball, football(all kinds), tennis, golf, baseball... > > Basically the 90% of sports broadcasting that isn't motor racing > (minus athletics). I've seen a few races on TV where some > gymkhana or golfing commentator's been shoved into the seat to > talk about motor racing. > > It's not a pretty sight ;o) > > cheers > John > > >

[email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

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> In article <g14l7.96326$[email hidden]>, "Simon Brown" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Attempting an overtaking manoeuvre on the inside of such a fast turn was > >crazy. It should give you a clue who was at fault that Eddie's rear tyre > >took off Berti's front wing, so Berti was trying a move, yet he wasn't even > >half along side. > > I think Burti backed out at the last minute. He was farther alongside.

Actually, it was more like the minute after the last one. -- -asbjxrn

Agree totally, EI had no idea that Burti was there, just followed his normal line. If he had known that Burti was there, he probably would have held his line on the right, whereby Burti would have had the inside run to Blanchimont. But we all know what eventually happened :( Rafe Mc On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:15:52 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ok sorry, my mistake. I didn't realize the turn was flat. So there are two >lines through there. > >You wouldn't ever choose the outside line though, since it's slower (because >it's a longer route). The fact that there was a collision tells me that >Eddie didn't know Burti was there. It wasn't a sudden shutting of the door, >but a smooth turn in from Eddie, so he was taking his normal line. If >you're going to shut the door, you do it agressively, so the guy has plenty >of room to back off. > >"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Well, not being one to agree that he should have attempted a move >> there, I don't think you can say there is only one line. The run up to >> Blanchimont *could* have two cars side by side, if the two drivers >> knew beforehand. The kinks are flat out sweepers, but the problem is >> that no driver ever really expects someone to poke their nose in. Mind >> you, this is all based on GP3, so I can't really say what the drivers >> would think reasonable. >> >> He really should have waited to have a go at the Bus stop or after Eau >> Rouge. Just too fast a corner and too unexpected (for Irvine) to have >> a go. >> >> Rafe Mc >> > >

The other reason that EI would take the normal line is that going off line would have put a LOT of marbles and other muck on his tyres. Through such a fast kink, that may be a bit unwise. All the drivers hold the same line through there to keep their tyres clean, as well as being the best way through. Rafe Mc On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:25:03 GMT, "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ok, I was a bit wrong there, I thought the turn was slower. It's easily >flat out (it's certainly not a kink though). > >That doesn't change the fact that you need to take the line of least >resistance, and that means driving right up to the apex. Staying in the >right hand lane is gonna cost you a tenth since it's further to travel. You >would never choose to stick to the right, since it's not the natural line, >*unless* you knew there was someone alongside. Hence Eddie didn't know >there was someone alongside. > >"Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:g05l7.96705$[email hidden]... >> I disagree. I'm convinced Eddie didn't have a clue the guy was there. He >> wouldn't risk ruining his own race by just driving into someone, that >> doesn't make sense. F1 cars break way too easily for someone to risk that >> (unless it's for a championship). Again, there is very little if any >> overtaking in that kind of corner in F1. Have a look at the turn in F1RC, >> which is pretty accurate with it's GPS. It's more than just a kink. >> > >

That's the most annoying thing to have to listen too. With the Aust. GP, they have their one 'expert' (Alan Jones, 1980 WDC, does a very good job) and then stick their standard sports/news hosts in the job (Eddie McGuire, Ray Martin, etc.) who are so annoying it's not funny. They interview team bosses and drivers and ask the same standard predictable questions, so irritating. No idea of what they're talking about. Rafe Mc On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:11:00 +0200, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ah... I see. Thanks! > >Over here the stations don't really have their own commentators outside the >major sports (soccer, cycling) either and commenting is done by freelance >specialist newspaper and magazine journo's > >Jan. >=--- >"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. > >"JM" wrote... >> <snip> >> hockey, basketball, football(all kinds), tennis, golf, baseball... >> >> Basically the 90% of sports broadcasting that isn't motor racing >> (minus athletics). I've seen a few races on TV where some >> gymkhana or golfing commentator's been shoved into the seat to >> talk about motor racing. >> >> It's not a pretty sight ;o) >> >> cheers >> John >> >> >> >

Sorry for delay, I had to go to work. "Simon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cE8l7.98182$[email hidden]... > > Clearly you don't agree with that, maybe we should just agree to disagree. > That is just what I wanted to propose before work. I agree to disagree. :-)

Simon Brown wrote in message ... >Ok sorry, my mistake. I didn't realize the turn was flat. So there aretwo >lines through there. > >You wouldn't ever choose the outside line though, since it's slower(because >it's a longer route). The fact that there was a collision tells me that >Eddie didn't know Burti was there. It wasn't a sudden shutting of thedoor, >but a smooth turn in from Eddie, so he was taking his normal line. If >you're going to shut the door, you do it agressively, so the guy has plenty >of room to back off. > Leading driver fudges corner exit, behind driver gets better momentum and broaches lead driver, lead driver doesn't notice, cuts off second driver, forces him onto grass and chops his front spoiler off. Of course lead driver should have yielded. He didn't for whatever reason (probably concentrating on track ahead) and the result is one of those "racing incidents". An F1 driver has to take any opportunity to overtake - the option of waiting for a conventional spot to overtake inevitably leads to no overtaking. I would expect that if it were M Schumacher and M Hakkinen in the same situation, a wheel-to-wheel dice through the corner would have ensued. Ben

> As to the quality of Walker and Brundles commentary, well Murray gets it > wrong, but in over 50 years of grand prix commentating, he's forgottenmore > about F1 than you or I will ever know. Show some respect. > Brundle has rarely been wrong in his technical assessments of given > situations, and is a very informed and informative commentator, in my > experience. > > So you think wrong. Murray: I just can't stand him, he doesn't know what he's talking about and everyone seems to take his misconceptions and other comments as facts... Brundle: Yeah, ok he knows what he's talking about but it's his smug attitude and bias which I find hard to take. Something which does not belong on my TV set to be honest, if he had a "Roebuck" sort of a job, being paid to flood the British media with Schumacher bitterness then I wouldn't like it but thats what he'd do. However If I watch I race I like the commentary crew to assess it and all drivers properly and fairly... ITV doesn't NOT give that. Besides that the whole crew are consumed the this "Britain is great at everything" attitude like most of the British press which gets irritating after a while. Believe me, if you get to check out other channels, DO, I find them much more fair and they know their stuff.

Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:usIk7.88733$[email hidden]... > Martin Brundle knows his stuff. Since you appear not to already knowthis, > maybe you don't know yours. > > I admit I find Murray occasionally irritating though, because he does make > lots of mistakes, and even poor judgements, and Brundle is forever havingto > correct him. Well, it's my personal viewpoint, doesn't mean it ahs to everyone's, but I just don't fancy the commentary team, I much prefer to take my local TV commentators than flick onto ITV.

"GraDee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H8tl7.4$[email hidden]... > > Well, it's my personal viewpoint, doesn't mean it ahs to everyone's, but I > just don't fancy the commentary team, I much prefer to take my local TV > commentators than flick onto ITV. > > Sure, but why do you call Brundle a sad little man? He's the only entertainment on some F1 weekends. I find him quite witty.