GPL Mosport - "can't do it"!!!

Help me!! I just can't do anything other than pure crap at this track. I can't tell you how many 1:29.19s I've done in the Eagle, a 29.25 in the Brab; even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. I should be doing low 1:25s, right? Am I attacking the track too much? Not trailbraking enough (at all)? Braking too early, or using 3rd when should be in 4th? Please, someone at least tell me this is a difficult track! After managing a 1:29.14 at Monza, I actually thought I was getting the hang of this GPL stuff.... Jonesy Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. GPLRANK 109.63 and losing all hope!

It's a difficult track. Some have called it a short Nurburgring. The secret to reasonable times at Mosport does seem to be not to attack too hard. Also, in the Lotus anyway, it seems to prefer low revs. I never use first (2nd at the Moss hairpin) and I run most corners in 3rd or 4th. My PB there is 1:22.78 and I can run 23's consistently. People get into the 18's, I haven't a clue how... Download some replays and see how the masters do it. If you want, I'll even send you mine <g>. Oh, and another thing that will help your times in GPL considerably: don't just run Monza all the time. Run ALL the tracks, including the add-ons. If you just run one (or a few) tracks all the time you will hard-code that track in your brain and you will stop learning. Hell, even run some laps at the $#(*#)@%& Ring! "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R4Pn7.10871$[email hidden]... > Help me!! I just can't do anything other than pure crap at this track. I > can't tell you how many 1:29.19s I've done in the Eagle, a 29.25 in the > Brab; even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. > > I should be doing low 1:25s, right? Am I attacking the track too much?Not > trailbraking enough (at all)? Braking too early, or using 3rd when shouldbe > in 4th? > > Please, someone at least tell me this is a difficult track! Aftermanaging

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> a 1:29.14 at Monza, I actually thought I was getting the hang of this GPL > stuff.... > > Jonesy > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > GPLRANK 109.63 and losing all hope! > >

"Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:R4Pn7.10871$[email hidden]:

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> Help me!! I just can't do anything other than pure crap at this track. > I can't tell you how many 1:29.19s I've done in the Eagle, a 29.25 in > the Brab; even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. > > I should be doing low 1:25s, right? Am I attacking the track too much? > Not trailbraking enough (at all)? Braking too early, or using 3rd when > should be in 4th? > > Please, someone at least tell me this is a difficult track! After > managing a 1:29.14 at Monza, I actually thought I was getting the hang > of this GPL stuff.... > > Jonesy > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > GPLRANK 109.63 and losing all hope! > >

Hmm, let me check my PBs... 1:26... -- oops! Sorry! Can't help you, mate! (IIRC, the manual talks about the importance of "clean driving" at this track. Sounds about right... :) -- "Walk like a Syrian" Per Thulin Visit Jane The Hamster's web site at http://w1.541.telia.com/~u54108168/ Spamblock in operation - remove "_no" "spam_" to reply by mail.

They are right to say don't attack the track. Brake earlier than you think you need to and then let off the brake early before turn-in (this does not mean slow down more than normal, just to do all your braking earlier and coast into the turn. This will get the car nice and balanced for the corner entry (most of the turns have entries in very unsettling places). You also need to learn how to get on the gas earlier than you think you need to. Not a big stomp, but just slightly adding more gas after the apex...the car can handle it...especially in turns 2 and 4. Finally, if the car is not turning, do not turn the wheel more...actually start bringing the wheel towards straight ahead (just a little bit...and only in the big turns like turn 1, 2, 3, 4 and the one at the end of the straight)...The car generally wants to slide a lot at this track (which is good) and when you add more steering lock, it gets rid of this slide and the car begins to push. Turn the car in with a good amount of lock, and then quickly bring the steering back towards center a little bit. This will setup a good slide and the car will turn better. If the car does not setup into a good drift, then put more lock back into the steering, and then reduce it again...This works at a lot of tracks (curve grande at monza is a good example)...but the turn has to be pretty fast and long. I know I have some other tips for mosport, but I can't think of them. If I remember, I will post another answer. Jesse Black BTW I run low 1:20s

All sounds like good advice. I hated this track for a long time - still gives me the shits ;) I found that I was attacking the track in frustration and kept going off to the grass all the time. Once I slowed down and took things easier my lap times dropped a lot. One thing I found, is that you need a fair bit of ride height here, to allow for all the elevation changes *especially* at the end of the straight. And obviously concentrate on a good exit out of the hairpin - I was always sideways with too much throttle. Once I calmed down a bit, (again) I pulled some nice times. Rafe Mc On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:26:20 -0400, "Jesse Black" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>They are right to say don't attack the track. Brake earlier than you think >you need to and then let off the brake early before turn-in (this does not >mean slow down more than normal, just to do all your braking earlier and >coast into the turn. This will get the car nice and balanced for the corner >entry (most of the turns have entries in very unsettling places). You also >need to learn how to get on the gas earlier than you think you need to. Not >a big stomp, but just slightly adding more gas after the apex...the car can >handle it...especially in turns 2 and 4. Finally, if the car is not >turning, do not turn the wheel more...actually start bringing the wheel >towards straight ahead (just a little bit...and only in the big turns like >turn 1, 2, 3, 4 and the one at the end of the straight)...The car generally >wants to slide a lot at this track (which is good) and when you add more >steering lock, it gets rid of this slide and the car begins to push. Turn >the car in with a good amount of lock, and then quickly bring the steering >back towards center a little bit. This will setup a good slide and the car >will turn better. If the car does not setup into a good drift, then put >more lock back into the steering, and then reduce it again...This works at a >lot of tracks (curve grande at monza is a good example)...but the turn has >to be pretty fast and long. > >I know I have some other tips for mosport, but I can't think of them. If I >remember, I will post another answer. > >Jesse Black > >BTW I run low 1:20s > >

"Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote: >even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. I *dream* of 1:29... --Morton, hoping you're a Monty Python fan Correct email: telson @ ameritech.net

Morton Chalom <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. > > I *dream* of 1:29... > > --Morton, hoping you're a Monty Python fan

We used to do sub 1:30s, if we were lucky!

The very best way to see where you are going wrong at a track IMO is to load your lap and another lap of a similar time in a SLOWER CAR (e.g. F2/FD) into RA and merge the 2 together to create a single lap with both cars visible. No good finding an F1 lap of similar time as there will be mistakes in that also. NO good mergin with a fast F1 time as you'll be out of touch by Turn 2. If you pick one of the F2/FD laps from the F2/FD Hotlap site : http://jc.simracing.dk/default.htm you should find one about the same time. The FDs have less power so you'll gain on them in the straights but you will both have the same grip in the corners. F2 cars have less power and less grip, you will obviously gain on the straights again, which means they must be getting through the corners better than you, with less grip, so you should be able to match them once you've studied the line. I've just checked the site, not wanting to demoralise you further but even the slowest WR F2 time is 1:27.53 (BRM) but I think this might do, certainly for the first half of the lap. If you want some tips on general technique and have not read this before, go here : http://users.bart.nl/~hansvd/school/ and read my GPLEGS stuff, get hold of the replays also, as you need to visually see this stuff for it to sink in fully (hence the merge comments above). I's recommend this to all drivers wanting to go quicker. There is a wide range of laptimes available. The Mosport F2 WR is in the 1:24s. Even if you are quicker, you can still find FD laps to compare to. The Mosport FD WR is 1:22.34 Maxx

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jonesy) writes:

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>Morton Chalom <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:<[email hidden]>... >> "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. >> >> I *dream* of 1:29... >> >> --Morton, hoping you're a Monty Python fan > >We used to do sub 1:30s, if we were lucky! >

But if you tell the kids that nowadays, they don't believe you... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yes you can >Please, someone at least tell me this is a difficult track! Short answer - yes. Reason - because its a very narrow track. Learn it well - it will stand you in good stead for all the other tracks. Forget Monza - it teaches you nothing, its only good for a burn up on a belly full of beer :-) (hick !) -- Alan Goss GPLRank +8.68

AH !! drive it like a NASCAR , right ? Jesse Black <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9noneu$ebl$[email hidden]... > They are right to say don't attack the track. Brake earlier than youthink > you need to and then let off the brake early before turn-in (this does not > mean slow down more than normal, just to do all your braking earlier and > coast into the turn. This will get the car nice and balanced for thecorner > entry (most of the turns have entries in very unsettling places). Youalso > need to learn how to get on the gas earlier than you think you need to.Not > a big stomp, but just slightly adding more gas after the apex...the carcan > handle it...especially in turns 2 and 4. Finally, if the car is not > turning, do not turn the wheel more...actually start bringing the wheel > towards straight ahead (just a little bit...and only in the big turns like > turn 1, 2, 3, 4 and the one at the end of the straight)...The cargenerally > wants to slide a lot at this track (which is good) and when you add more > steering lock, it gets rid of this slide and the car begins to push. Turn > the car in with a good amount of lock, and then quickly bring the steering > back towards center a little bit. This will setup a good slide and thecar > will turn better. If the car does not setup into a good drift, then put > more lock back into the steering, and then reduce it again...This works ata > lot of tracks (curve grande at monza is a good example)...but the turn has > to be pretty fast and long. > > I know I have some other tips for mosport, but I can't think of them. IfI

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> remember, I will post another answer. > > Jesse Black > > BTW I run low 1:20s > > >

Like you I was with the same pb (1.27/1.28) for long time. I discovered my setup was bad, very bad. With other setup (i think G.Huttu setup, I'm not sure at the moment) I made 1.24/1.25 regularly. The same track is now much more easy. The setup in this track is the most important. Note : I'm not a very good driver (GPL: 42) and I understand your despair. My "despair" is Monaco. M�rio "Per Thulin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:R4Pn7.10871$[email hidden]: > > > Help me!! I just can't do anything other than pure crap at this track. > > I can't tell you how many 1:29.19s I've done in the Eagle, a 29.25 in > > the Brab; even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. > > > > I should be doing low 1:25s, right? Am I attacking the track too much? > > Not trailbraking enough (at all)? Braking too early, or using 3rd when > > should be in 4th? > > > > Please, someone at least tell me this is a difficult track! After > > managing a 1:29.14 at Monza, I actually thought I was getting the hang > > of this GPL stuff.... > > > > Jonesy > > > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > > > GPLRANK 109.63 and losing all hope! > > > > > > Hmm, let me check my PBs... 1:26... -- oops! Sorry! Can't help you, mate! > > (IIRC, the manual talks about the importance of "clean driving" at this > track. Sounds about right... :) > > -- > "Walk like a Syrian" > > Per Thulin > > Visit Jane The Hamster's web site at http://w1.541.telia.com/~u54108168/ > > Spamblock in operation - remove "_no" "spam_" to reply by mail.

I recall reading that Nike Lauda once called Turn 2 the toughest in all of racing because of how the turn drops down and away. I have had the opportunity to watch some endurance races there. Man, it is really something to see the corvettes roar down and through the turn. T-Man "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> All sounds like good advice. I hated this track for a long time - > still gives me the shits ;) I found that I was attacking the track in > frustration and kept going off to the grass all the time. Once I > slowed down and took things easier my lap times dropped a lot. > > One thing I found, is that you need a fair bit of ride height here, to > allow for all the elevation changes *especially* at the end of the > straight. And obviously concentrate on a good exit out of the hairpin > - I was always sideways with too much throttle. Once I calmed down a > bit, (again) I pulled some nice times. > > Rafe Mc > > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:26:20 -0400, "Jesse Black" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >They are right to say don't attack the track. Brake earlier than you

think > >you need to and then let off the brake early before turn-in (this doesnot > >mean slow down more than normal, just to do all your braking earlier and > >coast into the turn. This will get the car nice and balanced for thecorner > >entry (most of the turns have entries in very unsettling places). Youalso > >need to learn how to get on the gas earlier than you think you need to.Not > >a big stomp, but just slightly adding more gas after the apex...the carcan > >handle it...especially in turns 2 and 4. Finally, if the car is not > >turning, do not turn the wheel more...actually start bringing the wheel > >towards straight ahead (just a little bit...and only in the big turnslike > >turn 1, 2, 3, 4 and the one at the end of the straight)...The cargenerally > >wants to slide a lot at this track (which is good) and when you add more > >steering lock, it gets rid of this slide and the car begins to push.Turn > >the car in with a good amount of lock, and then quickly bring thesteering > >back towards center a little bit. This will setup a good slide and thecar > >will turn better. If the car does not setup into a good drift, then put > >more lock back into the steering, and then reduce it again...This worksat a > >lot of tracks (curve grande at monza is a good example)...but the turnhas > >to be pretty fast and long. > > > >I know I have some other tips for mosport, but I can't think of them. IfI

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> >remember, I will post another answer. > > > >Jesse Black > > > >BTW I run low 1:20s > > > > >

yeah, a very deceptive turn. Looks at first to be reasonably fast, but the drop unweights the car so much and you lose a lot of grip. But it is still a medium speed corner a demands a very nice balance to get right - which I'm still working at :P Rafe Mc On Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:48:48 GMT, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I recall reading that Nike Lauda once called Turn 2 the toughest in all of >racing because of how the turn drops down and away. I have had the >opportunity to watch some endurance races there. Man, it is really >something to see the corvettes roar down and through the turn. > >T-Man > >"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> All sounds like good advice. I hated this track for a long time - >> still gives me the shits ;) I found that I was attacking the track in >> frustration and kept going off to the grass all the time. Once I >> slowed down and took things easier my lap times dropped a lot. >> >> One thing I found, is that you need a fair bit of ride height here, to >> allow for all the elevation changes *especially* at the end of the >> straight. And obviously concentrate on a good exit out of the hairpin >> - I was always sideways with too much throttle. Once I calmed down a >> bit, (again) I pulled some nice times. >> >> Rafe Mc >> >> >> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:26:20 -0400, "Jesse Black" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >They are right to say don't attack the track. Brake earlier than you >think >> >you need to and then let off the brake early before turn-in (this does >not >> >mean slow down more than normal, just to do all your braking earlier and >> >coast into the turn. This will get the car nice and balanced for the >corner >> >entry (most of the turns have entries in very unsettling places). You >also >> >need to learn how to get on the gas earlier than you think you need to. >Not >> >a big stomp, but just slightly adding more gas after the apex...the car >can >> >handle it...especially in turns 2 and 4. Finally, if the car is not >> >turning, do not turn the wheel more...actually start bringing the wheel >> >towards straight ahead (just a little bit...and only in the big turns >like >> >turn 1, 2, 3, 4 and the one at the end of the straight)...The car >generally >> >wants to slide a lot at this track (which is good) and when you add more >> >steering lock, it gets rid of this slide and the car begins to push. >Turn >> >the car in with a good amount of lock, and then quickly bring the >steering >> >back towards center a little bit. This will setup a good slide and the >car >> >will turn better. If the car does not setup into a good drift, then put >> >more lock back into the steering, and then reduce it again...This works >at a >> >lot of tracks (curve grande at monza is a good example)...but the turn >has >> >to be pretty fast and long. >> > >> >I know I have some other tips for mosport, but I can't think of them. If >I >> >remember, I will post another answer. >> > >> >Jesse Black >> > >> >BTW I run low 1:20s >> > >> > >> >

"Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R4Pn7.10871$[email hidden]... > Help me!! I just can't do anything other than pure crap at thistrack. I > can't tell you how many 1:29.19s I've done in the Eagle, a 29.25 inthe > Brab; even in the Lotus I can only manage a measly 29.29. > > I should be doing low 1:25s, right? Am I attacking the track toomuch? Not > trailbraking enough (at all)? Braking too early, or using 3rd whenshould be > in 4th? > > Please, someone at least tell me this is a difficult track! Aftermanaging > a 1:29.14 at Monza, I actually thought I was getting the hang ofthis GPL > stuff.... > > Jonesy Well, congratulations! you made it into the 1:27s! I can only sympathise and agree that when I look at my 1:27 lap at Mosport I think "that car is right on its limit" and "how can anyone go faster than that there" (or why would they want to!). -- Laurence Wilmer [email hidden] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/01

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> Well, congratulations! you made it into the 1:27s! > I can only sympathise and agree that when I look at my 1:27 lap at > Mosport I think "that car is right on its limit" and "how can anyone > go faster than that there" (or why would they want to!). > > -- > Laurence Wilmer > [email hidden] >

Laurence, Managed a 1:26.75 night before last, and together with an improved Mexico time, I've actually got a rank of below 100 now! Now if I could just take a minute off my 'ring time... Jonesy Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. GPLRANK (F1): +98.67 slowly but surely...

"Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oS4q7.5157$[email hidden]... <snip> > Laurence, > > Managed a 1:26.75 night before last, and together with an improvedMexico

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> time, I've actually got a rank of below 100 now! > > Now if I could just take a minute off my 'ring time... > > Jonesy > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > GPLRANK (F1): +98.67 slowly but surely... >

Congratulations on both counts - you've pulled ahead of me now, guess I have some work to do. I've been 'resting' at just over the 100 mark for a while, secure in the knowledge that it could easily be achieved if I concentrated a little. (The Ring is my excuse for not being negative rank - haven't really worked at it at all). Now what steed did the deed for you at Mosport? ... Eagle - of course, my favourite for difficult tracks. So what was the secret to Mosport? I've run out of the subtle hints for spots where I'm braking too early (like, AI crashing into my rear generally tells me something). How do you do it, or, what did you do different? -- Laurence Wilmer [email hidden] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.280 / Virus Database: 147 - Release Date: 11/09/01

"Laurence Wilmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Fw5q7.5600$[email hidden]>...

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> > > Congratulations on both counts - you've pulled ahead of me now, guess > I have some work to do. I've been 'resting' at just over the 100 mark > for a while, secure in the knowledge that it could easily be achieved > if I concentrated a little. (The Ring is my excuse for not being > negative rank - haven't really worked at it at all). > > Now what steed did the deed for you at Mosport? ... Eagle - of course, > my favourite for difficult tracks. So what was the secret to Mosport? > I've run out of the subtle hints for spots where I'm braking too early > (like, AI crashing into my rear generally tells me something). How do > you do it, or, what did you do different? >

Well, I've still got a way to go, but I'm learning slowly that conversely, it's not just about going as fast as possible, more going in as short a distance as one can, as quickly as possible! Martin Brundle once said about the importance of keeping forward motion to the maximum; it may sound obvious, but I often forget and fall in to the 'braking as late as possible is the only way' trap. Just by easing off enough to stay on line (too often I was pushing too much and then having to back off a lot to make the corner), and by being a little braver with T2 and T4 I lost a second; it took a fair bit of time to not to be intimidated by the way the car feels under braking as the track falls away beneath you! I also found braking slightly earlier than I anticipated really helped. We are pretty much on a par laptimes wise; like you, it's the 'Ring that holds be back from a more respectable GPLRank....I think I need to devote an entire week of evenings before I can even break 9mins!!

>I've run out of the subtle hints for spots where I'm braking too early >(like, AI crashing into my rear generally tells me something). This isn't a good learning tool if John Surtees is behind you however, especially at Monza! He'll have you trying to brake 50 feet away from the turnin at the Parabolica. :) ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

"Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oS4q7.5157$[email hidden]... > Laurence, > > Managed a 1:26.75 night before last, and together with an improvedMexico

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> time, I've actually got a rank of below 100 now! > > Now if I could just take a minute off my 'ring time... > > Jonesy > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > GPLRANK (F1): +98.67 slowly but surely... >

The Brabham just gave me a 1:26.46 at Mosport - I think it gets around the hairpin more tidily, to get power on earlier for the back uphill section. Now what was that you did at Mexico - I'm stuck at 1:53 there, usually spin on T1. -- Laurence Wilmer [email hidden] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 18/09/01