Force Feed and GPL

I understand there is a way to make a force feed wheel work with GPL! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks MILO

add this to your CORE.INI file [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback =1 ; Use FF if device has it force_feedback_damping = 5.000000 ; force feedback damping coefficient force_feedback_latency = 0.020000 ; force feedback latency (secs) max_steering_torque = 330.000000 ; steering torque in N*in giving max device force play with the latency/damping/torque settings to make them feel how you like it "Milo Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wwzo7.7320$[email hidden]...

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> I understand there is a way to make a force feed wheel work with GPL! > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks MILO > >

Just to add, you have to be running the patch version from papy as well.... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Milo Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wwzo7.7320$[email hidden]... > I understand there is a way to make a force feed wheel work with GPL! > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks MILO > >

Update to version 1.2 and then depending on what wheel you have try the following examples in the core.ini (make SURE it's not called core.ini.txt) These settings below are taken from various drivers.... just play with the values until you fins one that suits you, there is a MASSIVE difference to be felt when messing with those parameteres. The GTX Slotcar website has loads of info about these settings, help me put with the url for that one guys ;) Mikkel ------------------ Guillemot Ferrari ForceFeedback GREGER HUTTU: //Core.ini// [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_damping = 90 force_feedback_latency = 0.0045 max_steering_torque = 175 These values don't give too strong forces. If you want stronger forces try the values I used before. //Core.ini// [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_damping = 450 force_feedback_latency = 0.0045 max_steering_torque = 220 Windows control panel: Overall Device Gain: 90% Spring Gain: 0% Damper Gain: 0% Default Spring: Off and 0% GTX_SlotCar: //Core.ini// [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_damping = 5000 force_feedback_latency = 0.0045 max_steering_torque = 2800 Windows control panel: Overall Device Gain: 100% Spring Gain: 0% Damper Gain: 0-100% Default Spring: 25% --------------- Logitech ForceFeedback: Core.ini: [ Joy ] allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_latency = 0.01 force_feedback_damping = 40.0 max_steering_torque = 225.0 Game controller properties: Force feedback level: Medium Return to center tension: Off Map front to back forces to wheel: Off Wheel performance: Sport (Deadzone=small,sensitivity=medium) -------------- Microsoft FF allow_force_feedback = 1 force_feedback_damping = 100.000000 force_feedback_latency = 0.0015 max_steering_torque = 80.000000 Milo Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wwzo7.7320$[email hidden]...

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> I understand there is a way to make a force feed wheel work with GPL! > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks MILO > >

I saved this post from Chris Lee on how to adjust the FF settings in core.ini. Ken "Ambulater" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> This is what I use with my ACT-LABS wheel: > > [ Joy ] > allow_force_feedback = 1 > force_feedback_damping = 350.0 > force_feedback_latency = 0.025 > max_steering_torque = 300.0 > > LATENCY: > I determined the latency by driving over curbs repeatedly and adjusting

the > value until all four wheels produced individual FF effects in sync with what > I was seeing from an outside view of the car. > > MAX STEERING TORQUE: > This is an interesting one. This is not actually the maximum torqueyour > wheel will produce, but is instead the *THRESHOLD* at which your wheel > produces it's maximum force. Let's just pick some numbers out of theair to > illustrate this. Let's say the GPL software models the torque ofshifting > at high revs at 50N, fish-tailing through a corner at 200N, and acomplete > wipe out at 300N. If you were to set your max steering torquethreshold at > "50" all of these effects would be equally powerful as all wouldproduce > the maximum amount of torque possible. So if you set this thresholdvalue > too low the car is virtually undrivable and there is little distinction > between the various forces. If however you set the value to 300 you'll feel > a marked gradation between these 3 very different effects. If you setthis > threshold value too high (say 2000), you'll lose all steering torque > altogether as no steering torque force will ever reach the threshold to > trigger the max effect. So how do you set this? First set damping inboth > the controller panel and core.ini to 0. We don't want to mess withthat > right now. From a dead stop take your hands off the wheel thengradually > accelerate. If the forward momentum of the car very gradually bringsthe > front wheels (and steering wheel) into forward alignment (as in a realcar > with manual steering) then you've got the threshold value just aboutright. > If the front wheels (and steering wheel) do not center and your carjust > continues in a perpetual circle, then the threshold value is too high.If > the wheel suddenly snaps to center and or see-saws violently, then youhave > the threshold set too low. Adjusting the threshold to level that just > barely produces a centering effect at low speeds will result in a very > drivable car and nice subtle tactile inputs that will cue you as to the > status of your vehicle. Now here is the part that really throwspeople: > the Max Steering Torque threshold *ONLY* affects *STEERING TORQUEFORCE* or > the forces related to engine torque, torque caused by maneuveringthrough > corners, wheel centering torque, etc. It does *NOT* affect any of the > forces related to crashing into guardrails or driving on grass. Forsome > odd reason these are affected by damping. > > DAMPING: > This does in fact do what it says. It causes increased "friction" or > "viscosity" in the movement of the wheel and therefore also tends tolessen > some effect spikes. Now the really odd thing is, as you increase the > damping value and the friction on the wheel, you also increase theforces > felt when driving on grass or slamming into rails. I recommendadjusting > this value just high enough to just barely feel a subtle differencebetween > pavement and grass when one single wheel drops off the road. Usingthis as > a guide you'll be able to tell with your eyes closed if all four wheels are > on the road, hitting curbs will feel realistic, guard rails will giveyou a > jolt but usually allow you to correct, and the wheel will not be sotight > that you begin to lose torque effects. The key to good driving anduseful > tactile information is subtlety in each of these settings. GPL is notan > arcade game. > > Finally, I have the force effects in my controller applet at 100% and > dampening effects to 0% (you've already adjusted this in the core.iniand > adding more damping in the controller panel will just result in reduced > subtlety in effects). I use full linear steering in GPL and a steering > ratio of 15:1. (these latter two things are purely a matter of taste,but > may effect the way you feel the forces at work in your wheel or atleast the > way your car responds as torque is placed on the wheel). > > Hope this helps. > -- > Chris "Ambulater" Lee Milo Johnson wrote: > I understand there is a way to make a force feed wheel work with GPL! > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks MILO

I have to disagree with Chris on a couple of points. First, the windows settings are scale factors, not additive. Setting damping to 100% in Windows doesn't add anything, it just gives you the full value the game asked for. Setting it to 0% would normally turn it off. In GPL it doesn't work out that way because GPL doesn't use the spring and damper force feedback model. Steering torque and damping are apparently settings that GPL uses in its own internal model, and therefore damping in core.ini has no relation to damping in the Windows control panel. Secondly I don't think you are going to get satisfactory latency values by running over curbs. With a frame rate of 36 fps max, your resolution on anything that you judge strictly visually is about 28 msec. For me at least, I found it very difficult to judge whether I had enough correction or not using that method. The method in the GPL readme file works much better. Drive down a straight at a good rate and swerve from left to right repeatedly. Do this with a car that is set up with firm springs and shocks. Ideally the aligning force on the wheel should change direction when you change the direction of the wheel. There should be a very slight lag due to the time it takes the vehicle to settle on the suspension, but it should hardly be noticeable if you are using a stiff suspension. You know what this feels like in a real car, it shouldn't feel any worse in GPL. In my case, using the small latency values that most people recommend, there was considerable delay between the time I changed the wheel direction and the time I felt the force change. In fact I was often turned completely the other way before I felt it. I had to increase my latency value to 0.100 (100 msec) before it felt right. This is only slightly higher than the Papy recommended value of 0.085, which was based on the Microsoft wheel. Therefore I think my setting is right for my crappy wheel (LWFFGP) and I also think that the 20 - 30 msec number that most people are using is too low. This makes all the difference in the world to your ability to control the vehicle. Before making this change I could not rescue the car if it got a little sideways. I would just end up seesawing back and forth and going wider each time until it spun. After making the change I can now rescue myself from most mistakes. Before the change I kept going to stiffer and stiffer setups to try and keep the car under control. After making the change I have been able to go much softer and still control the vehicle. I've read posts in here from people who say they tried a force feedback wheel with GPL or N4, and couldn't even make it around the track once. They usually end up taking the wheel back. That was also my initial reaction, and I am convinced that the problem is entirely due to the latency number. Set it up right, and it feels right. I have noticed that with high latency values the wheel makes a lot of very small motions for no apparent reason. This is the drawback to high latency, but can be minimized by reducing steering torque and increasing damping slightly. I really recommend trying this with either GPL or N4. You can always go back if you don't like it. It makes a huge difference, and I especially think that if you are using a gear driven wheel, which will have naturally higher latency due to backlash, this is a must. My two cents, Haqsau "Ken MacKay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I saved this post from Chris Lee on how to adjust the FF settings in > core.ini. > > Ken > > "Ambulater" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > This is what I use with my ACT-LABS wheel: > > > > [ Joy ] > > allow_force_feedback = 1 > > force_feedback_damping = 350.0 > > force_feedback_latency = 0.025 > > max_steering_torque = 300.0 > > > > LATENCY: > > I determined the latency by driving over curbs repeatedly and

adjusting > > the > > value until all four wheels produced individual FF effects in syncwith

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> > what > > I was seeing from an outside view of the car. > > > > MAX STEERING TORQUE: > > This is an interesting one. This is not actually the maximum torque > your > > wheel will produce, but is instead the *THRESHOLD* at which your

wheel > > produces it's maximum force. Let's just pick some numbers out ofthe

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> air > to > > illustrate this. Let's say the GPL software models the torque of > shifting > > at high revs at 50N, fish-tailing through a corner at 200N, and a > complete > > wipe out at 300N. If you were to set your max steering torque > threshold > at > > "50" all of these effects would be equally powerful as all would > produce > > the maximum amount of torque possible. So if you set this threshold > value > > too low the car is virtually undrivable and there is little

distinction > > > between the various forces. If however you set the value to 300you'll > > feel > > a marked gradation between these 3 very different effects. If youset > this > > threshold value too high (say 2000), you'll lose all steering torque > > altogether as no steering torque force will ever reach the thresholdto > > > trigger the max effect. So how do you set this? First set dampingin > both > > the controller panel and core.ini to 0. We don't want to mess with > that > > right now. From a dead stop take your hands off the wheel then > gradually > > accelerate. If the forward momentum of the car very graduallybrings > the > > front wheels (and steering wheel) into forward alignment (as in areal > car > > with manual steering) then you've got the threshold value just about > right. > > If the front wheels (and steering wheel) do not center and your car > just > > continues in a perpetual circle, then the threshold value is toohigh. > If > > the wheel suddenly snaps to center and or see-saws violently, thenyou > have > > the threshold set too low. Adjusting the threshold to level thatjust > > barely produces a centering effect at low speeds will result in avery > > drivable car and nice subtle tactile inputs that will cue you as tothe

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> > > status of your vehicle. Now here is the part that really throws > people: > > the Max Steering Torque threshold *ONLY* affects *STEERING TORQUE > FORCE* > or > > the forces related to engine torque, torque caused by maneuvering > through > > corners, wheel centering torque, etc. It does *NOT* affect any of

the > > forces related to crashing into guardrails or driving on grass. For > some > > odd reason these are affected by damping. > > > > DAMPING: > > This does in fact do what it says. It causes increased "friction"or > > "viscosity" in the movement of the wheel and therefore also tends to > lessen > > some effect spikes. Now the really odd thing is, as you increasethe

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> > damping value and the friction on the wheel, you also increase the > forces > > felt when driving on grass or slamming into rails. I recommend > adjusting > > this value just high enough to just barely feel a subtle difference > between > > pavement and grass when one single wheel drops off the road. Using > this > as > > a guide you'll be able to tell with your eyes closed if all four

wheels > > are > > on the road, hitting curbs will feel realistic, guard rails willgive

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> you > a > > jolt but usually allow you to correct, and the wheel will not be so > tight > > that you begin to lose torque effects. The key to good driving and > useful > > tactile information is subtlety in each of these settings. GPL is

not > an > > arcade game. > > > > Finally, I have the force effects in my controller applet at 100%and > > dampening effects to 0% (you've already adjusted this in thecore.ini > and > > adding more damping in the controller panel will just result inreduced > > > subtlety in effects). I use full linear steering in GPL and asteering > > > ratio of 15:1. (these latter two things are purely a matter oftaste,

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> but > > may effect the way you feel the forces at work in your wheel or at > least > the > > way your car responds as torque is placed on the wheel). > > > > Hope this helps. > > -- > > Chris "Ambulater" Lee > > > Milo Johnson wrote: > > > I understand there is a way to make a force feed wheel work with

GPL! > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks MILO >