Track Editing and Updates - Questions

Hi Guys.... I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently, I'm working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of the original GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of work again. I'm quite impressed with some of the track editing work I've seen recently.....and the fast computers we now have allow a lot more "creativity" than I was allowed a couple years back (and more). I have also acquired some tools for Viper Racing......and I will be creating a "race car cockpit" for the GTS-R Viper.....I'll post its availability here if and when I can create something worth downloading. I am amazed how many people are still running VR.......! Here's my questions: 1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or, is that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing (although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among the track editors). 2. I am planning to purchase either 3dsMax 4 or MultiGen (with Road Builder). Which is the most versatile....anyone using these currently outside of the game developers? Any recommendations (game developer tech, or private)? ["Yes," I do know how much they cost.] These questions are regarding GPL track editing specifically......... 3. I want to figure out what my new "pixel budget" would be for a GF3 video card running on a 1.x Gig AMD platform (or a high-end Pentium platform). I'm assuming that even with this kind of computing power, there is some "limit" to the total mip textures the video card loads (and the CPU processes) for a track, that will begin to severely hit the FPS. How do I figure out what that "new" limit is for a GF3, 1.x Gig CPU system? If I can accurately determine (or estimate with some reasonable level of accuracy) the total mip texture limit for a track.....then I can allocate the "high-res" textures accordingly (to those mips with more "presence"......creating lower-res mips for the less obvious textures....all from the standpoint of the view from the cockpit). What's the process/steps necessary to make this calculation? I have some "good guesses" on how to do this....but I thought I'd just ask.....why try to "reinvent the wheel"....? 4. Does the mapping instruction for a texture exist in the track.3do? Where is it in the 3do for the track surface.......and can this be edited with a simple text editor? Or how can this be edited? Specifically, I'm interested in altering the mapping for the track surface texture so that if it tiles the surface texture mip, to change the tiling so it places mirror images of the texture side by side. Most of the GPL tracks map two sets of the surface texture side by side across the width of the track....but not in mirror images. This prevents creating light and dark track surface shading between the middle and edges of the track. Some GPL tracks do "mirror" the surface texture....so I know this can be done (Noonan's RoadA track for example). 5. Does the horizon.3do specifically control the horizon panels (page03.mip and page03b.mip) independent of the track.3do, and nothing else? Has anyone tried adding panels, subtracting panels, or changing the resolution of the existing panels? In my opinion, one of the biggest weaknesses of the original Papy GPL tracks is the incorrect scaling of the horizon textures......its just not realistic (although I can understand the need for it being done the way Papy did it....because of the GPL minimum specs issues) on many of the tracks (but not all). That's it for now....if I can locate a good track editing Forum.....I'll take further questions of a tech nature on this topic there. But, I couldn't think of a way to avoid asking these questions here.....sorry for those of you who have no interest in this topic. Thanks for your patience on this long post. I have been really impressed with some of the GPL track and car editing work I've observed in the last week or so since I sort of took up this "hobby activity" again. It looks like we might eventually see the end of the days where we are all forced to race on fluorescent colored simulation tracks......bright colors and shades more appropriate for arcade consoles in a bar and/or comic books.....not realistic racing simulations. The only thing bright and fluorescent at a real-world race track on race day........is the crowds, the sponsor signage and the race cars. Everything else is muted and subdued in tone and luminescence......it will be nice to have those kinds of tracks (and cars) to sim race with....its long overdue (IMHO). Perhaps Chris and Tony West will have left a legacy to this sim racing community (whether they ever release WSC or not).....their track screen shots and race cars are absolutely the best....spectacular work of creating real-world imagery in a racing simulation. I believe their work has inspired others........"thank you - Chris and Tony West!" Wouldn't it be great if Papy could "tear a page" from Chris and Tony's inspirational work and finally get the grass color down out of the "luminescent ozone layer" for N5? Man, that would be great! [N4 is a vast improvement over N3 and N2.....but that fluorescent green grass color....along with some others.....just makes me gag! I don't understand why they continue to do this?] Thanks for allowing my "rambling" on this topic..... Regards, Tom

wow, why is everybody working on Watkins Glen all of a sudden? 16 bit textures etc...... go here for editing forums i guess http://home.online.no/~bi-knu/editing/ Sudesh "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KD6q7.23022$L%[email hidden]... > Hi Guys.... > > I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done > this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL > editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently,I'm > working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of theoriginal > GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of > work again. I'm quite impressed with some of the track editing work I've > seen recently.....and the fast computers we now have allow a lot more > "creativity" than I was allowed a couple years back (and more). I havealso > acquired some tools for Viper Racing......and I will be creating a "racecar > cockpit" for the GTS-R Viper.....I'll post its availability here if andwhen

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> I can create something worth downloading. I am amazed how many people are > still running VR.......! > > Here's my questions: > > 1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track > editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing > gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or,

is > that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no > clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing > (although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among thetrack

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> editors). > > 2. I am planning to purchase either 3dsMax 4 or MultiGen (with Road > Builder). Which is the most versatile....anyone using these currently > outside of the game developers? Any recommendations (game developer tech, > or private)? ["Yes," I do know how much they cost.] > > These questions are regarding GPL track editing specifically......... > > 3. I want to figure out what my new "pixel budget" would be for a GF3

video > card running on a 1.x Gig AMD platform (or a high-end Pentium platform). > I'm assuming that even with this kind of computing power, there is some > "limit" to the total mip textures the video card loads (and the CPU > processes) for a track, that will begin to severely hit the FPS. How do I > figure out what that "new" limit is for a GF3, 1.x Gig CPU system? If Ican > accurately determine (or estimate with some reasonable level of accuracy) > the total mip texture limit for a track.....then I can allocate the > "high-res" textures accordingly (to those mips with more > "presence"......creating lower-res mips for the less obvioustextures....all > from the standpoint of the view from the cockpit). What's theprocess/steps > necessary to make this calculation? I have some "good guesses" on how todo > this....but I thought I'd just ask.....why try to "reinvent thewheel"....? > > 4. Does the mapping instruction for a texture exist in the track.3do? > Where is it in the 3do for the track surface.......and can this be edited > with a simple text editor? Or how can this be edited? Specifically, I'm > interested in altering the mapping for the track surface texture so thatif > it tiles the surface texture mip, to change the tiling so it places mirror > images of the texture side by side. Most of the GPL tracks map two setsof > the surface texture side by side across the width of the track....but notin > mirror images. This prevents creating light and dark track surfaceshading > between the middle and edges of the track. Some GPL tracks do "mirror"the > surface texture....so I know this can be done (Noonan's RoadA track for > example). > > 5. Does the horizon.3do specifically control the horizon panels(page03.mip > and page03b.mip) independent of the track.3do, and nothing else? Hasanyone > tried adding panels, subtracting panels, or changing the resolution of the > existing panels? In my opinion, one of the biggest weaknesses of the > original Papy GPL tracks is the incorrect scaling of the horizon > textures......its just not realistic (although I can understand the needfor

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> it being done the way Papy did it....because of the GPL minimum specs > issues) on many of the tracks (but not all). > > That's it for now....if I can locate a good track editing Forum.....I'll > take further questions of a tech nature on this topic there. But, I > couldn't think of a way to avoid asking these questions here.....sorry for > those of you who have no interest in this topic. Thanks for your patience > on this long post. > > I have been really impressed with some of the GPL track and car editing

work > I've observed in the last week or so since I sort of took up this "hobby > activity" again. It looks like we might eventually see the end of thedays > where we are all forced to race on fluorescent colored simulation > tracks......bright colors and shades more appropriate for arcade consolesin > a bar and/or comic books.....not realistic racing simulations. The only > thing bright and fluorescent at a real-world race track on race > day........is the crowds, the sponsor signage and the race cars.Everything

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> else is muted and subdued in tone and luminescence......it will be nice to > have those kinds of tracks (and cars) to sim race with....its long overdue > (IMHO). Perhaps Chris and Tony West will have left a legacy to this sim > racing community (whether they ever release WSC or not).....their track > screen shots and race cars are absolutely the best....spectacular work of > creating real-world imagery in a racing simulation. I believe their work > has inspired others........"thank you - Chris and Tony West!" > > Wouldn't it be great if Papy could "tear a page" from Chris and Tony's > inspirational work and finally get the grass color down out of the > "luminescent ozone layer" for N5? Man, that would be great! [N4 is a

vast

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> improvement over N3 and N2.....but that fluorescent green grass > color....along with some others.....just makes me gag! I don't understand > why they continue to do this?] > > Thanks for allowing my "rambling" on this topic..... > > Regards, > > Tom > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KD6q7.23022$L%[email hidden]... > Hi Guys.... > > I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done > this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL > editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently,I'm > working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of theoriginal > GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of > work again. There is already an update for fall colours for the Glen. You can get read about it here: http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=25&t=00 0098 > 1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track > editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing > gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or,is > that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no > clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing > (although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among thetrack > editors). > I am of course rather biased but I reckon that the best editing forum is the one that I host for the GPLEA at Legends Central. It is where all the GPLEA guys hang out to answer questions on track editing and the GPLEA editing tools. You can reach it directly at: http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=7 or vist my site at the link below. I'm afraid I can;t answer your other questions but the gurus who hang out in the editing forum, including the original Guru, Phil Flack, certainly will be able to. Cheers Phil Lee Legends Central Webmaster http://www.legendscentral.com

Forget about the Old Watkins Glen, there's too many out there. Start working on the one **with the boot**!! Sooner or later I'll get my prize ;-) -- Michael A. Barlow FILSCA (www.filsca.com) "sudesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > wow, why is everybody working on Watkins Glen all of a sudden? > 16 bit textures etc...... > go here for editing forums i guess > > http://home.online.no/~bi-knu/editing/ > > Sudesh > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KD6q7.23022$L%[email hidden]... > > Hi Guys.... > > > > I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done > > this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL > > editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently, > I'm > > working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of the > original > > GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of > > work again. I'm quite impressed with some of the track editing work I've > > seen recently.....and the fast computers we now have allow a lot more > > "creativity" than I was allowed a couple years back (and more). I have > also > > acquired some tools for Viper Racing......and I will be creating a "race > car > > cockpit" for the GTS-R Viper.....I'll post its availability here if and > when > > I can create something worth downloading. I am amazed how many people are > > still running VR.......! > > > > Here's my questions: > > > > 1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track > > editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing > > gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or, > is > > that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no > > clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing > > (although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among the > track > > editors). > > > > 2. I am planning to purchase either 3dsMax 4 or MultiGen (with Road > > Builder). Which is the most versatile....anyone using these currently > > outside of the game developers? Any recommendations (game developer tech, > > or private)? ["Yes," I do know how much they cost.] > > > > These questions are regarding GPL track editing specifically......... > > > > 3. I want to figure out what my new "pixel budget" would be for a GF3 > video > > card running on a 1.x Gig AMD platform (or a high-end Pentium platform). > > I'm assuming that even with this kind of computing power, there is some > > "limit" to the total mip textures the video card loads (and the CPU > > processes) for a track, that will begin to severely hit the FPS. How do I > > figure out what that "new" limit is for a GF3, 1.x Gig CPU system? If I > can > > accurately determine (or estimate with some reasonable level of accuracy) > > the total mip texture limit for a track.....then I can allocate the > > "high-res" textures accordingly (to those mips with more > > "presence"......creating lower-res mips for the less obvious > textures....all > > from the standpoint of the view from the cockpit). What's the > process/steps > > necessary to make this calculation? I have some "good guesses" on how to > do > > this....but I thought I'd just ask.....why try to "reinvent the > wheel"....? > > > > 4. Does the mapping instruction for a texture exist in the track.3do? > > Where is it in the 3do for the track surface.......and can this be edited > > with a simple text editor? Or how can this be edited? Specifically, I'm > > interested in altering the mapping for the track surface texture so that > if > > it tiles the surface texture mip, to change the tiling so it places mirror > > images of the texture side by side. Most of the GPL tracks map two sets > of > > the surface texture side by side across the width of the track....but not > in > > mirror images. This prevents creating light and dark track surface > shading > > between the middle and edges of the track. Some GPL tracks do "mirror" > the > > surface texture....so I know this can be done (Noonan's RoadA track for > > example). > > > > 5. Does the horizon.3do specifically control the horizon panels > (page03.mip > > and page03b.mip) independent of the track.3do, and nothing else? Has > anyone > > tried adding panels, subtracting panels, or changing the resolution of the > > existing panels? In my opinion, one of the biggest weaknesses of the > > original Papy GPL tracks is the incorrect scaling of the horizon > > textures......its just not realistic (although I can understand the need > for > > it being done the way Papy did it....because of the GPL minimum specs > > issues) on many of the tracks (but not all). > > > > That's it for now....if I can locate a good track editing Forum.....I'll > > take further questions of a tech nature on this topic there. But, I > > couldn't think of a way to avoid asking these questions here.....sorry for > > those of you who have no interest in this topic. Thanks for your patience > > on this long post. > > > > I have been really impressed with some of the GPL track and car editing > work > > I've observed in the last week or so since I sort of took up this "hobby > > activity" again. It looks like we might eventually see the end of the > days > > where we are all forced to race on fluorescent colored simulation > > tracks......bright colors and shades more appropriate for arcade consoles > in > > a bar and/or comic books.....not realistic racing simulations. The only > > thing bright and fluorescent at a real-world race track on race > > day........is the crowds, the sponsor signage and the race cars. > Everything > > else is muted and subdued in tone and luminescence......it will be nice to > > have those kinds of tracks (and cars) to sim race with....its long overdue > > (IMHO). Perhaps Chris and Tony West will have left a legacy to this sim > > racing community (whether they ever release WSC or not).....their track > > screen shots and race cars are absolutely the best....spectacular work of > > creating real-world imagery in a racing simulation. I believe their work > > has inspired others........"thank you - Chris and Tony West!" > > > > Wouldn't it be great if Papy could "tear a page" from Chris and Tony's > > inspirational work and finally get the grass color down out of the > > "luminescent ozone layer" for N5? Man, that would be great! [N4 is a > vast > > improvement over N3 and N2.....but that fluorescent green grass > > color....along with some others.....just makes me gag! I don't understand > > why they continue to do this?] > > > > Thanks for allowing my "rambling" on this topic..... > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > > > > >

Hey Tom, while you're in editing mode, you should do some "rounded knuckles" hehehe. Seriously, those arms need some decent textures :) Rafe Mc On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:47:54 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi Guys.... > >I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done >this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL >editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently, I'm >working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of the original >GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of >work again. I'm quite impressed with some of the track editing work I've >seen recently.....and the fast computers we now have allow a lot more >"creativity" than I was allowed a couple years back (and more). I have also >acquired some tools for Viper Racing......and I will be creating a "race car >cockpit" for the GTS-R Viper.....I'll post its availability here if and when >I can create something worth downloading. I am amazed how many people are >still running VR.......! > >Here's my questions: > >1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track >editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing >gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or, is >that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no >clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing >(although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among the track >editors). > >2. I am planning to purchase either 3dsMax 4 or MultiGen (with Road >Builder). Which is the most versatile....anyone using these currently >outside of the game developers? Any recommendations (game developer tech, >or private)? ["Yes," I do know how much they cost.] > >These questions are regarding GPL track editing specifically......... > >3. I want to figure out what my new "pixel budget" would be for a GF3 video >card running on a 1.x Gig AMD platform (or a high-end Pentium platform). >I'm assuming that even with this kind of computing power, there is some >"limit" to the total mip textures the video card loads (and the CPU >processes) for a track, that will begin to severely hit the FPS. How do I >figure out what that "new" limit is for a GF3, 1.x Gig CPU system? If I can >accurately determine (or estimate with some reasonable level of accuracy) >the total mip texture limit for a track.....then I can allocate the >"high-res" textures accordingly (to those mips with more >"presence"......creating lower-res mips for the less obvious textures....all >from the standpoint of the view from the cockpit). What's the process/steps >necessary to make this calculation? I have some "good guesses" on how to do >this....but I thought I'd just ask.....why try to "reinvent the wheel"....? > >4. Does the mapping instruction for a texture exist in the track.3do? >Where is it in the 3do for the track surface.......and can this be edited >with a simple text editor? Or how can this be edited? Specifically, I'm >interested in altering the mapping for the track surface texture so that if >it tiles the surface texture mip, to change the tiling so it places mirror >images of the texture side by side. Most of the GPL tracks map two sets of >the surface texture side by side across the width of the track....but not in >mirror images. This prevents creating light and dark track surface shading >between the middle and edges of the track. Some GPL tracks do "mirror" the >surface texture....so I know this can be done (Noonan's RoadA track for >example). > >5. Does the horizon.3do specifically control the horizon panels (page03.mip >and page03b.mip) independent of the track.3do, and nothing else? Has anyone >tried adding panels, subtracting panels, or changing the resolution of the >existing panels? In my opinion, one of the biggest weaknesses of the >original Papy GPL tracks is the incorrect scaling of the horizon >textures......its just not realistic (although I can understand the need for >it being done the way Papy did it....because of the GPL minimum specs >issues) on many of the tracks (but not all). > >That's it for now....if I can locate a good track editing Forum.....I'll >take further questions of a tech nature on this topic there. But, I >couldn't think of a way to avoid asking these questions here.....sorry for >those of you who have no interest in this topic. Thanks for your patience >on this long post. > >I have been really impressed with some of the GPL track and car editing work >I've observed in the last week or so since I sort of took up this "hobby >activity" again. It looks like we might eventually see the end of the days >where we are all forced to race on fluorescent colored simulation >tracks......bright colors and shades more appropriate for arcade consoles in >a bar and/or comic books.....not realistic racing simulations. The only >thing bright and fluorescent at a real-world race track on race >day........is the crowds, the sponsor signage and the race cars. Everything >else is muted and subdued in tone and luminescence......it will be nice to >have those kinds of tracks (and cars) to sim race with....its long overdue >(IMHO). Perhaps Chris and Tony West will have left a legacy to this sim >racing community (whether they ever release WSC or not).....their track >screen shots and race cars are absolutely the best....spectacular work of >creating real-world imagery in a racing simulation. I believe their work >has inspired others........"thank you - Chris and Tony West!" > >Wouldn't it be great if Papy could "tear a page" from Chris and Tony's >inspirational work and finally get the grass color down out of the >"luminescent ozone layer" for N5? Man, that would be great! [N4 is a vast >improvement over N3 and N2.....but that fluorescent green grass >color....along with some others.....just makes me gag! I don't understand >why they continue to do this?] > >Thanks for allowing my "rambling" on this topic..... > >Regards, > >Tom > >

hi, altitudes from monza 2001: http://www.monzanet.it/pista/altline.jpg use it as a new track (or don't), tapani

Phil Lee wrote:

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> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KD6q7.23022$L%[email hidden]... >> Hi Guys.... >> >> I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done >> this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL >> editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently, > I'm >> working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of the > original >> GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of >> work again. > > > There is already an update for fall colours for the Glen. You can get > read about it here: > >

http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=25&t=00

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> 0098 > > > >> 1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track >> editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing >> gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or, > is >> that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no >> clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing >> (although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among the > track >> editors). >> > > I am of course rather biased but I reckon that the best editing forum is > the > one that I host for the GPLEA at Legends Central. It is where all the > GPLEA guys hang out to answer questions on track editing and the GPLEA > editing tools. > > You can reach it directly at: > > http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=7 > > or vist my site at the link below. > > I'm afraid I can;t answer your other questions but the gurus who hang out > in the editing forum, including the original Guru, Phil Flack, certainly > will be able to. > > Cheers > > Phil Lee > > Legends Central Webmaster > http://www.legendscentral.com

And it's stunning, although it seems to be set near sunset. Most stunning time of the day though. It could still use some tweaking, at least according to this local resident. The grass, for instance, is too yellow. The tress are perfect, just the right mix of colors and those that havn't turned yet, but the GRASS in early October is actually quite green. Greener than in August. Grass likes it cool and wet, like October is, and actually stages a "comeback" in the early fall and keeps getting greener and lusher at least until first frost. KFG

Rafe.... You mean like this? http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRhands-1.jpg I would love it (along with everyone else) if someone would create an improved 3D object for the GPL driver arms. I don't do that stuff....too much math and algebra, calculus....that sort of boring stuff. I only do art! .....lol..... Tom -:)

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8P6s7.46530$L%[email hidden]...

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> Rafe.... > > You mean like this? > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRhands-1.jpg > > I would love it (along with everyone else) if someone would create an > improved 3D object for the GPL driver arms. I don't do that > stuff....too much math and algebra, calculus....that sort of boring > stuff. I only do art! .....lol..... > > Tom -:)

oohhhh (backing away from monitor and cleaning off the drool) round knuckles....:) Actually that looks pretty good. I wonder what kind of framerate we would have gotten back when GPL was released with textures like those ? dave henrie

That does look very cool. Now if someone in the know had enough spare time on their hands...We'd all be pretty grateful I'm sure. Rafe Mc On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:38:12 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Rafe.... > >You mean like this? > >http://www.pabst-racing.com/webscreens/PRhands-1.jpg > >I would love it (along with everyone else) if someone would create an >improved 3D object for the GPL driver arms. I don't do that >stuff....too much math and algebra, calculus....that sort of boring >stuff. I only do art! .....lol..... > >Tom -:) > >

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote : > ...had enough spare time on their *hands*... (emphasis mine) Har, har, har - good pun (even if it was unintentional). ...Klinn

As a programmer, I only have "over the shoulder" knowledge for actually using these two, but here's my take: We are still using Multigen Creator for tracks and 3DS Max 3 for cars... Multigen has very good database management, and the program doesn't hide the internal data base structure the way Max does, so you can really organize your scene database in any way you want, with LOD information, switch nodes, etc. If you want new types of information in the track, you can just add new nodes with new names. Of course, it's expensive and somewhat buggy/resource hogging, but on the plus side you get more personal tech support. Unlike MAX, which is still oriented towards non-realtime rendering with exporting to games as more of an afterthought, Multigen is designed expressly for exporting to custom realtime rendering engines, such as military simulators. They also have a road tools plugin. MAX seems to be better at editing individual models, has fancier mesh support, and is more "mainstream". It's also better for boned animation. However, you usually end up having to write a custom exporter plugin, because their own 3DS exporter is broken for many cases and their .MAX file format is undocumented, unlike the Openflight format of Multigen. We implemented a car deformation system using bones on our Xbox Heat, and getting the bone weights out of MAX was a real headache. We just received MAX 4, and we'll see how that is--their game-oriented stuff has been improving over the last several revs, such as allowing you to actually edit the texture coordinates directly (In Viper (MAX 2 era) I had to write a custom tool to do texture mapping, so we we did the modeling in MAX and the texturing in a hokey editor within the debug version of the game.) I had heard from other developers who used MAX for their scene management that it would start to really have problems with large scenes, but that information is a few years old and may not apply to the newest MAX versions. A lot of developers are very excited about Maya, and we would like to investigate what the strengths and weaknesses of this product are, but of course there is a cost to us to switch tool mid project... basically both Multigen and MAX have great feature and irritating qualities, and I think it's because even MAX still has a small enough user base that these packages will never be as polished as a true mass market application like Photoshop. I think Multigen is much nicer for the programmers--MAX plugins can be pretty iritating to write because every new modeling option the artist uses seems to break the plugin and require a couple hours of digging around the MAX SDK... for all I know Maya may be the next sliced bread, but I'm guessing it'll do some things great and fall down on others. All of our track artists used 3DS MAX prior to working here, but after they've been working with Multigen for a few years, they don't want to switch back. Obviously, we don't do any GPL editing around here, so I don't know exactly how these products would perform for that task--it seems like most 4th party modellers use MAX. Good luck making your choice! -Dave Pollatsek MGI (Wow, this post ended up being nearly "Tom Pabst"-class in length). "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KD6q7.23022$L%[email hidden]... > Hi Guys.... > > I am having some fun doing a little GPL track editing again (haven't done > this stuff for over a year) and I have some general questions for the GPL > editing community...and/or anyone with answers (...lol...). Currently,I'm > working on creating a properly colored "Fall Colors" version of theoriginal > GPL Watkins Glen......just to sort of "grease my wheels" in this type of > work again. I'm quite impressed with some of the track editing work I've > seen recently.....and the fast computers we now have allow a lot more > "creativity" than I was allowed a couple years back (and more). I havealso > acquired some tools for Viper Racing......and I will be creating a "racecar > cockpit" for the GTS-R Viper.....I'll post its availability here if andwhen

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> I can create something worth downloading. I am amazed how many people are > still running VR.......! > > Here's my questions: > > 1. Where's the best "Forum" for mixing with tech-types on GPL track > editing? Is there a Forum where everyone that does some track editing > gathers, gets technical problems discussed, share information, etc.? Or,

is > that community divided by the racing sim they work on? I have no > clue....these Forums didn't exist when I was actively track editing > (although Alison Hine had tried to start an email-type Forum among thetrack

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> editors). > > 2. I am planning to purchase either 3dsMax 4 or MultiGen (with Road > Builder). Which is the most versatile....anyone using these currently > outside of the game developers? Any recommendations (game developer tech, > or private)? ["Yes," I do know how much they cost.] > > These questions are regarding GPL track editing specifically......... > > 3. I want to figure out what my new "pixel budget" would be for a GF3

video > card running on a 1.x Gig AMD platform (or a high-end Pentium platform). > I'm assuming that even with this kind of computing power, there is some > "limit" to the total mip textures the video card loads (and the CPU > processes) for a track, that will begin to severely hit the FPS. How do I > figure out what that "new" limit is for a GF3, 1.x Gig CPU system? If Ican > accurately determine (or estimate with some reasonable level of accuracy) > the total mip texture limit for a track.....then I can allocate the > "high-res" textures accordingly (to those mips with more > "presence"......creating lower-res mips for the less obvioustextures....all > from the standpoint of the view from the cockpit). What's theprocess/steps > necessary to make this calculation? I have some "good guesses" on how todo > this....but I thought I'd just ask.....why try to "reinvent thewheel"....? > > 4. Does the mapping instruction for a texture exist in the track.3do? > Where is it in the 3do for the track surface.......and can this be edited > with a simple text editor? Or how can this be edited? Specifically, I'm > interested in altering the mapping for the track surface texture so thatif > it tiles the surface texture mip, to change the tiling so it places mirror > images of the texture side by side. Most of the GPL tracks map two setsof > the surface texture side by side across the width of the track....but notin > mirror images. This prevents creating light and dark track surfaceshading > between the middle and edges of the track. Some GPL tracks do "mirror"the > surface texture....so I know this can be done (Noonan's RoadA track for > example). > > 5. Does the horizon.3do specifically control the horizon panels(page03.mip > and page03b.mip) independent of the track.3do, and nothing else? Hasanyone > tried adding panels, subtracting panels, or changing the resolution of the > existing panels? In my opinion, one of the biggest weaknesses of the > original Papy GPL tracks is the incorrect scaling of the horizon > textures......its just not realistic (although I can understand the needfor

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> it being done the way Papy did it....because of the GPL minimum specs > issues) on many of the tracks (but not all). > > That's it for now....if I can locate a good track editing Forum.....I'll > take further questions of a tech nature on this topic there. But, I > couldn't think of a way to avoid asking these questions here.....sorry for > those of you who have no interest in this topic. Thanks for your patience > on this long post. > > I have been really impressed with some of the GPL track and car editing

work > I've observed in the last week or so since I sort of took up this "hobby > activity" again. It looks like we might eventually see the end of thedays > where we are all forced to race on fluorescent colored simulation > tracks......bright colors and shades more appropriate for arcade consolesin > a bar and/or comic books.....not realistic racing simulations. The only > thing bright and fluorescent at a real-world race track on race > day........is the crowds, the sponsor signage and the race cars.Everything

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> else is muted and subdued in tone and luminescence......it will be nice to > have those kinds of tracks (and cars) to sim race with....its long overdue > (IMHO). Perhaps Chris and Tony West will have left a legacy to this sim > racing community (whether they ever release WSC or not).....their track > screen shots and race cars are absolutely the best....spectacular work of > creating real-world imagery in a racing simulation. I believe their work > has inspired others........"thank you - Chris and Tony West!" > > Wouldn't it be great if Papy could "tear a page" from Chris and Tony's > inspirational work and finally get the grass color down out of the > "luminescent ozone layer" for N5? Man, that would be great! [N4 is a

vast

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> improvement over N3 and N2.....but that fluorescent green grass > color....along with some others.....just makes me gag! I don't understand > why they continue to do this?] > > Thanks for allowing my "rambling" on this topic..... > > Regards, > > Tom > > >