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Sure, it's been done before...

32 posts by 12 people · 24 Sep 2001 02:43 UTC - 03 Oct 2001 18:58 UTC

Breaking 1:30 at Monza and other GPL milestones

J. P. Hovercraft celebrated breaking 1:30 at Monza in Grand Prix Legends with a Lotus. Others congratulated him and listed their own milestone lap times at Rouen, the Nurburgring, Watkins Glen, Kyalami, Mosport and Mexico, debating which are reachable for ordinary drivers. Joachim Blum's Ringtrainer add-on was recommended for learning the Nurburgring.

setup/driving techniquecommunity/metaGrand Prix Legends

Automated summary.

J. P. Hovercraft 24 Sep 2001 02:43 UTC#161210
...but...mere minutes ago... I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! WOOHOO! YES! WHOZE DA MAN? ME!!!! MUAHAHAHA!! I've been at 1:30:6x for about a month in the Ferrari, so I decided to break out the Lotus with one of Allison's setups. 8 gallons of gas. A few warm-up laps to get the feel and then dig in... 1:31:05...ok I'm on to something...1:30:54...PB and room for more...1:30:15...so close... 1:30:00!!! ...OMG ... another lap, push harder!... clipped the armco coming out of the first Lesmo, spin and crash, what's my time for that last lap???!!!??? Escape and check the times...1:29:76!!! YES! YES! YES! Almost three years in the making! Guess I should have bought a wheel a long time ago. Time for a drink! Thanks for listening. P.S. Synchronicity strikes! I was watching RaceWeek on Speedvision tonight. They did a bit on Montoya's win at Monza and the announcer said, "Nice win in Italy, J. P." An omen? Still grinning. -- J. P. Hovercraft Remove "your_inhibitions_" to reply.
Congrats! I'm still hovering around 1:32 in the Lotus, 1:33 in the Ferrari, so I guess I have a ways to go yet. OTOH I have only been at this for a few months, so I guess I just need to be more patient. Hope to join you soon! ;o) "J. P. Hovercraft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)> ...but...mere minutes ago... > > I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! > WOOHOO! YES! WHOZE DA MAN? ME!!!! MUAHAHAHA!! > > I've been at 1:30:6x for about a month in the Ferrari, so I decided to > break out the Lotus with one of Allison's setups. 8 gallons of gas. > > A few warm-up laps to get the feel and then dig in... 1:31:05...ok I'm > on to something...1:30:54...PB and room for more...1:30:15...so
close... > 1:30:00!!! ...OMG ... another lap, push harder!... clipped the armco > coming out of the first Lesmo, spin and crash, what's my time for that > last lap???!!!??? Escape and check the times...1:29:76!!! YES! YES!YES!
Quoted text (14 lines)> Almost three years in the making! Guess I should have bought a wheel a > long time ago. Time for a drink! > > Thanks for listening. > > P.S. Synchronicity strikes! I was watching RaceWeek on Speedvision > tonight. They did a bit on Montoya's win at Monza and the announcer > said, "Nice win in Italy, J. P." An omen? Still grinning. > -- > J. P. Hovercraft > > Remove "your_inhibitions_" to reply. > >
Congrats... nice one. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "J. P. Hovercraft" wrote... > ...but...mere minutes ago... > > I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! > WOOHOO! YES! WHOZE DA MAN? ME!!!! MUAHAHAHA!! > > <snip>
Congrats, nice one. Two JP's score in Monza hey? You should be timing your gpl practice with Montoya's in the future... US GP next? Rafe Mc On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:43:43 GMT, "J. P. Hovercraft" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (21 lines)>...but...mere minutes ago... > >I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! >WOOHOO! YES! WHOZE DA MAN? ME!!!! MUAHAHAHA!! > >I've been at 1:30:6x for about a month in the Ferrari, so I decided to >break out the Lotus with one of Allison's setups. 8 gallons of gas. > >A few warm-up laps to get the feel and then dig in... 1:31:05...ok I'm >on to something...1:30:54...PB and room for more...1:30:15...so close... >1:30:00!!! ...OMG ... another lap, push harder!... clipped the armco >coming out of the first Lesmo, spin and crash, what's my time for that >last lap???!!!??? Escape and check the times...1:29:76!!! YES! YES! YES! >Almost three years in the making! Guess I should have bought a wheel a >long time ago. Time for a drink! > >Thanks for listening. > >P.S. Synchronicity strikes! I was watching RaceWeek on Speedvision >tonight. They did a bit on Montoya's win at Monza and the announcer >said, "Nice win in Italy, J. P." An omen? Still grinning.
J. P. Hovercraft <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: > ...but...mere minutes ago... > > I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!!<snip> Yay! The only bad thing about doing it is that it's all downhill from here - no other milestone (not even a negative GPLRank) has given me the same high as breaking that 1:30 barrier. Enjoy it while it lasts! -- One-line reply + 300-line quote = unread post.
On 24 Sep 2001 11:42:49 GMT, [email hidden] (David Buttery) wrote:
Quoted text (10 lines)>J. P. Hovercraft <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: > >> ...but...mere minutes ago... >> >> I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! ><snip> > >Yay! The only bad thing about doing it is that it's all downhill from >here - no other milestone (not even a negative GPLRank) has given me >the same high as breaking that 1:30 barrier. Enjoy it while it lasts!
I disagree, the 1:30 at Silverstone is a nice one :D Rafe Mc
Try the Eagle. It'll get ya there... "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Sbxr7.10941$[email hidden]... > Congrats! I'm still hovering around 1:32 in the Lotus, 1:33 in the > Ferrari, so I guess I have a ways to go yet. OTOH I have only been at > this for a few months, so I guess I just need to be more patient. Hope > to join you soon! ;o) >
"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (15 lines)> On 24 Sep 2001 11:42:49 GMT, [email hidden] (David > Buttery) wrote: > > >J. P. Hovercraft <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: > > > >> ...but...mere minutes ago... > >> > >> I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! > ><snip> > > > >Yay! The only bad thing about doing it is that it's all downhill from > >here - no other milestone (not even a negative GPLRank) has given me > >the same high as breaking that 1:30 barrier. Enjoy it while it lasts! > > I disagree, the 1:30 at Silverstone is a nice one :D
Me disagrees, too. Other milestones for me were/are: 2:00 at Rouen, 8:30 at the Ring, 1:06 at the Glen, 1:20 at Kya (to do), 1:20 at Mosport (to do), 1:50 at Mexico (to do). Others? Regards Crash
Quoted text (9 lines)> >Me disagrees, too. Other milestones for me were/are: >2:00 at Rouen, >8:30 at the Ring, >1:06 at the Glen, >1:20 at Kya (to do), >1:20 at Mosport (to do), >1:50 at Mexico (to do). >Others?
3:20 at Spa and 1:30 at Monaco are still on my "to do" list (just that last tenth to crack at Monaco dammit!) And going negative on St Eldred's Cup (where's he been lately?) Rafe Mc
I look forward to crossing the magic 8:00 at the ring.... 8:08 is my best and I have not been able to improve that the last 4-5 months, so I guess I'll have to wait a looooong time for that barrier to go down. IMHO 1:30 at Monza, going negative on the rank, and 8:00 at the ring are the 3 big ones. Mikkel David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (13 lines)> J. P. Hovercraft <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: > > > ...but...mere minutes ago... > > > > I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! > <snip> > > Yay! The only bad thing about doing it is that it's all downhill from > here - no other milestone (not even a negative GPLRank) has given me > the same high as breaking that 1:30 barrier. Enjoy it while it lasts! > > -- > One-line reply + 300-line quote = unread post.
Given the reachable level of most of these milestones, I think you might want to re-think your Mosport goal. 1:20 at Mosport is approaching alien level - I've reached all these other goals but I'm still in the high 22's at Mosport with no improvement in sight. "Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9onfv6$i65$04$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (12 lines)> Me disagrees, too. Other milestones for me were/are: > 2:00 at Rouen, > 8:30 at the Ring, > 1:06 at the Glen, > 1:20 at Kya (to do), > 1:20 at Mosport (to do), > 1:50 at Mexico (to do). > Others? > > Regards > Crash >
I would just like to FINISH a lap at the Ring :) -Larry "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3baf5c70$0$280$[email hidden]... > I look forward to crossing the magic 8:00 at the ring.... 8:08 is my best > and I have not been able to improve that the last 4-5 months, so I guess > I'll have to wait a looooong time for that barrier to go down. > > IMHO 1:30 at Monza, going negative on the rank, and 8:00 at the ring arethe
Quoted text (22 lines)> 3 big ones. > > Mikkel > > > David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > J. P. Hovercraft <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: > > > > > ...but...mere minutes ago... > > > > > > I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! > > <snip> > > > > Yay! The only bad thing about doing it is that it's all downhill from > > here - no other milestone (not even a negative GPLRank) has given me > > the same high as breaking that 1:30 barrier. Enjoy it while it lasts! > > > > -- > > One-line reply + 300-line quote = unread post. > >
"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:rcKr7.22765$[email hidden]... > Given the reachable level of most of these milestones, I think you might > want to re-think your Mosport goal. 1:20 at Mosport is approaching alien > level - I've reached all these other goals but I'm still in the high 22'sat > Mosport with no improvement in sight. Me too ;)). Ok, let's head for the 1:21 first. I just posted 1:20 because it's a nice round number. Oh, and how could I forget the 3:20 at Spa...thanks for the reminder, Rafe ;). I've done a 3:18 there so far, but I cannot see any chance to shave of another 5 seconds to come even close to the wr. I think some people are just gifted with certain skills, like Schumi or Senna in F1, or any other extraordinary athlete in any sport you want. And it's another proof for the extreme realism that GPL provides for it really sorts out. There are only a few who are outstandingly good, who are able to master these beasts. Regards Crash
Dunno if your kidding or not David? but I've had plenty of other great moments in GPL. Hell I broke Monza 1:30 before the first patch less then a month after it hit the shelves in 98' and I'm still finding new barriers to knock down. Of course I aint a negative GPLRank and might never be either but I dont care... :) "David Buttery" wrote:
Quoted text (7 lines)| | Yay! The only bad thing about doing it is that it's all downhill from | here - no other milestone (not even a negative GPLRank) has given me | the same high as breaking that 1:30 barrier. Enjoy it while it lasts! | | -- | One-line reply + 300-line quote = unread post.
J. P. Hovercraft <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: | | > ...but...mere minutes ago... | > | > I BROKE 1:30 AT MONZA!!!!! | <snip> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 9/18/2001
Thom j. <[email hidden]> wrote on 24 Sep 2001: > Dunno if your kidding or not David? but I've had plenty of other > great moments in GPL. Hell I broke Monza 1:30 before the first > patch less then a month after it hit the shelves in 98' and I'm > still finding new barriers to knock down. Of course I aint a > negative GPLRank and might never be either but I dont care... :) Nope, I'm not kidding. And yes, I have had other great moments in GPL, but *none* of them have quiet the same sense of achievement. 3:30 at Spa was the first "milestone" I achieved, but it was a horribly sloppy lap so I didn't really feel pride in it. After the Monza 1:30, nothing was ever quite so good again - not even 2:00 at Rouen, which took me *ages*! -- One-line reply + 300-line quote = unread post. Hey, if it hadn't been for King Alfred in the 9th century we'd all be speaking Danish now. I must kiss the [feet - Ed] of all Danes I meet...
Well I guess thats why they say: Different strokes fer different folks..eh? :) "David Buttery" wrote:
Quoted text (20 lines)| Nope, I'm not kidding. And yes, I have had other great moments in GPL, | but *none* of them have quiet the same sense of achievement. 3:30 at | Spa was the first "milestone" I achieved, but it was a horribly sloppy | lap so I didn't really feel pride in it. After the Monza 1:30, nothing | was ever quite so good again - not even 2:00 at Rouen, which took me | *ages*! | | -- | One-line reply + 300-line quote = unread post. | | Hey, if it hadn't been for King Alfred in the 9th century we'd all be | speaking Danish now. I must kiss the [feet - Ed] of all Danes I meet... | Thom j. wrote on 24 Sep 2001: | > Dunno if your kidding or not David? but I've had plenty of other | > great moments in GPL. Hell I broke Monza 1:30 before the first | > patch less then a month after it hit the shelves in 98' and I'm | > still finding new barriers to knock down. Of course I aint a | > negative GPLRank and might never be either but I dont care... :) |
--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 9/18/2001
LOL, I was like that for ages. Getting below 10mins was a feat! Gotta get below 8:30 though, I just need less mistakes... BTW Joachim, thanks for putting together a great addon :D Rafe Mc On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 21:51:48 +0200, "Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote:
Quoted text (10 lines)>"Larry" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag >news:6SKr7.16647$[email hidden]... > >> I would just like to FINISH a lap at the Ring :) > >Try Ringtrainer: http://www.joachimblum.de/ringtrainer.htm >;) > >Regards >Crash
Ditto for me too on the below 8:30 Rafe :( The other x.30 times were not all out of my reach on most GPL tracks like The Ring. Grrrr :'( "Rafe McAuliffe" wrote: | LOL, I was like that for ages. Getting below 10mins was a feat! Gotta | get below 8:30 though, I just need less mistakes... | | BTW Joachim, thanks for putting together a great addon :D | | Rafe Mc --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 9/18/2001
"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:[email hidden]... > BTW Joachim, thanks for putting together a great addon :D Thank you :D! Regards Crash
In article <3baf5c70$0$280$[email hidden]>, "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> writes:
Quoted text (7 lines)>I look forward to crossing the magic 8:00 at the ring.... 8:08 is my best >and I have not been able to improve that the last 4-5 months, so I guess >I'll have to wait a looooong time for that barrier to go down. > >IMHO 1:30 at Monza, going negative on the rank, and 8:00 at the ring are the >3 big ones. >
Well, I have the first one. If I could get the third one, I'd get the second one<g>. I don't see either happening soon, though. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <rcKr7.22765$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> writes:
Quoted text (15 lines)>Given the reachable level of most of these milestones, I think you might >want to re-think your Mosport goal. 1:20 at Mosport is approaching alien >level - I've reached all these other goals but I'm still in the high 22's at >Mosport with no improvement in sight. > >"Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9onfv6$i65$04$[email hidden]... >> Me disagrees, too. Other milestones for me were/are: >> 2:00 at Rouen, >> 8:30 at the Ring, >> 1:06 at the Glen, >> 1:20 at Kya (to do), >> 1:20 at Mosport (to do), >> 1:50 at Mexico (to do). >> Others?
Those are REACHABLE?!? I mean, by non-aliens? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
I'm hardly an alien, but here's my stats: 1:58.93 at Rouen 8:22.60 at the Ring (probably never to be repeated) 1:05.30 at the Glen 1:21.06 at Kya 1:22.73 at Mosport 1:50.09 at Mexico My point was just that the Mosport milestone is a bit ambitious compared to the rest. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <rcKr7.22765$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Given the reachable level of most of these milestones, I think you might > >want to re-think your Mosport goal. 1:20 at Mosport is approaching alien > >level - I've reached all these other goals but I'm still in the high 22'sat
Quoted text (22 lines)> >Mosport with no improvement in sight. > > > >"Joachim Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:9onfv6$i65$04$[email hidden]... > >> Me disagrees, too. Other milestones for me were/are: > >> 2:00 at Rouen, > >> 8:30 at the Ring, > >> 1:06 at the Glen, > >> 1:20 at Kya (to do), > >> 1:20 at Mosport (to do), > >> 1:50 at Mexico (to do). > >> Others? > > Those are REACHABLE?!? I mean, by non-aliens? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Hey E... Are you doing the "RainMan" thingy.. who's on 1st?? :) "EldredP" wrote: | Well, I have the first one. If I could get the third one, I'd get thesecond | one<g>. I don't see either happening soon, though. | | Eldred --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 9/18/2001
Looks close to Aliens'ville to me!! :)~ "Rob Adams" wrote:
Quoted text (7 lines)| I'm hardly an alien, but here's my stats: | 1:58.93 at Rouen | 8:22.60 at the Ring (probably never to be repeated) | 1:05.30 at the Glen | 1:21.06 at Kya | 1:22.73 at Mosport | 1:50.09 at Mexico
--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.281 / Virus Database: 149 - Release Date: 9/18/2001
Certainly "committed mortal" territory. ;-)) Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Thom j." wrote...
Quoted text (10 lines)> Looks close to Aliens'ville to me!! :)~ > > "Rob Adams" wrote: > | I'm hardly an alien, but here's my stats: > | 1:58.93 at Rouen > | 8:22.60 at the Ring > | 1:05.30 at the Glen > | 1:21.06 at Kya > | 1:22.73 at Mosport > | 1:50.09 at Mexico
In article <8Ess7.53573$[email hidden]>, "Thom j." <[email hidden]> writes:
Quoted text (8 lines)>Hey E... Are you doing the "RainMan" thingy.. who's on 1st?? :) > >"EldredP" wrote: >| Well, I have the first one. If I could get the third one, I'd get the >second >| one<g>. I don't see either happening soon, though. >| >| Eldred
Huh? I was just saying that if I could get an 8:00 lap at the Ring, that would take me negative... Like I said, I don't see that happening soon. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <YFrs7.41507$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> writes:
Quoted text (8 lines)>I'm hardly an alien, but here's my stats: >1:58.93 at Rouen >8:22.60 at the Ring (probably never to be repeated) >1:05.30 at the Glen >1:21.06 at Kya >1:22.73 at Mosport >1:50.09 at Mexico >
Well, you're an alien compared to ME. Not that it's hard to do, mind you...<g> >My point was just that the Mosport milestone is a bit ambitious compared to >the rest. I was ignoring the Mosport time because I knew I couldn't come CLOSE, but they're all ambitious to me... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
ok you dont see what you wrote via first one, third one, second one etc? Abbott and Costello act.. follow?? "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (13 lines)| In article <8Ess7.53573$[email hidden]>, "Thom j." | <[email hidden]> writes: | | >Hey E... Are you doing the "RainMan" thingy.. who's on 1st?? :) | > | >"EldredP" wrote: | >| Well, I have the first one. If I could get the third one, I'd get the | >second | >| one<g>. I don't see either happening soon, though. | >| | >| Eldred | | Huh? I was just saying that if I could get an 8:00 lap at the Ring, that
would
Quoted text (10 lines)| take me negative... | Like I said, I don't see that happening soon. | | Eldred | -- | Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 | Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett | F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... | | Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you | with experience... | Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.282 / Virus Database: 150 - Release Date: 9/25/2001
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) writes: >3:20 at Spa and 1:30 at Monaco are still on my "to do" list (just that >last tenth to crack at Monaco dammit!) > >And going negative on St Eldred's Cup (where's he been lately?) > >Rafe Mc I'm still around - I've just hit a plateau on my laptimes, dammit.... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <[email hidden]>, "J. P. Hovercraft" <[email hidden]> writes: >Almost three years in the making! Guess I should have bought a wheel a >long time ago. Time for a drink! How long have you had the wheel? Congrats! Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <YwGr7.17035$[email hidden]>, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> writes:
Quoted text (8 lines)>Try the Eagle. It'll get ya there... > >"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:Sbxr7.10941$[email hidden]... >> Congrats! I'm still hovering around 1:32 in the Lotus, 1:33 in the >> Ferrari, so I guess I have a ways to go yet. OTOH I have only been at >> this for a few months, so I guess I just need to be more patient. Hope >> to join you soon! ;o)
The EAGLE? Hmm...I don't even think that's in my top *3* times at Monza. Lotus, then Ferrari, then... I'm not sure, but it isn't the eagle. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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