Serious CHOP after AMD64/mobo

Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if it made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I could RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an effort to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I flashed bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have any ideas ?!?!? Verne

Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if it made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I could RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an effort to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I flashed bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have any ideas ?!?!? Verne

"V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SXm3f.5572$[email hidden]...

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> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I > still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c > installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an > AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same > OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously > choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP > Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the > F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not > anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to > see if it made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so > that I could RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, > in an effort to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than > before. I flashed bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any > body have any ideas ?!?!? > > Verne >

I get 3 short beeps on boot, I can see no error indication on the screen. A website I came across noted possible RAM issues, but when I swapped the ram out together, and individually in different slots, still 3 short beeps. Anybody have a clue what AMI 3 short beeps might mean as well as ram ??

I get 3 short beeps on boot, I can see no error indication on the screen. A website I came across noted possible RAM issues, but when I swapped the ram out together, and individually in different slots, still 3 short beeps. Anybody have a clue what AMI 3 short beeps might mean as well as ram ??

"V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:_Pn3f.5583$[email hidden]:

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> > "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SXm3f.5572$[email hidden]... >> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. >> I still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c >> installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was >> an AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same >> ram......same OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c >> are seriously choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and >> reinstalled XP Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 >> secs in GTL, and the F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in >> the spinner and it is not anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I >> reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if it made any difference, same >> thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I could RUN GTL..........now >> listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an effort to upgrade for >> a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I flashed bios to >> newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have any ideas >> ?!?!? >> >> Verne >> > > I get 3 short beeps on boot, I can see no error indication on the > screen. A website I came across noted possible RAM issues, but when I > swapped the ram out together, and individually in different slots, > still 3 short beeps. Anybody have a clue what AMI 3 short beeps might > mean as well as ram ?? > >

Don't have that mobo, but just recently built an ASUS A8V system with the same processor. Some thoughts: If the RAM is an unpaired 2x512MB, the system might be running into mismatch/sync problems trying to run it in Dual Channel mode. Possible remedy: Underclock the memory in BIOS (don't worry, it'll still be quicker than in single channel mode), or do the opposite of what MSI recommend for double channel mode, thus forcing it into single channel. I see on MIS's web page http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php? UID=608 that they claim only three RAM configuratons are valid for this mobo - for two sticks, they MUST go into DIMM2 and DIMM4. I problems persist, I would try DIMM1 and DIMM2 also though, to see if that forces it into single channel. Check/change the AGP aperture size in BIOS. Also, try AGP fastwrites on/off. And here's a beauty that's probably VERY specific to my own Leadtek 6800 and the ASUS A8V BIOS: To make my card work smoothly with AGP memory, I have to do a soft reset when the boot procedure reaches the ASUS boot screen. How's that for weird? ;)

Did you start with a fresh Windows/App install after changing all that hardware? -Larry "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SXm3f.5572$[email hidden]...

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> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I > still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c > installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an > AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same > OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously > choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP > Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the > F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not > anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to > see if it made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so > that I could RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, > in an effort to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than > before. I flashed bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any > body have any ideas ?!?!? > > Verne >

Yep............says so. Reread it to make sure I didn't skip that part. Thanks though "news.east.cox.net" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Fru3f.31243$Rk5.26767@lakeread06...

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> Did you start with a fresh Windows/App install after changing all that > hardware? > > -Larry > > "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SXm3f.5572$[email hidden]... >> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I >> still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c >> installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an >> AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same >> OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously >> choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP >> Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the >> F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not >> anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to >> see if it made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so >> that I could RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. >> Well, in an effort to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than >> before. I flashed bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any >> body have any ideas ?!?!? >> >> Verne >> > >

Yep............says so. Reread it to make sure I didn't skip that part. Thanks though

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> Did you start with a fresh Windows/App install after changing all that > hardware? > -Larry >> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I >> still have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c >> installed. This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an >> AMD Sempron 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same >> OS. My HUGE problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously >> choppy in comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP >> Home. New 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the >> F1c runs smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not >> anywhere near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to >> see if it made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so >> that I could RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. >> Well, in an effort to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than >> before. I flashed bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any >> body have any ideas ?!?!? >> Verne

V \"fnugen\" wrote:

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> > Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I still > have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c installed. > This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an AMD Sempron > 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same OS. My HUGE > problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously choppy in > comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP Home. New > 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the F1c runs > smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not anywhere > near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if it > made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I could > RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an effort > to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I flashed > bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have any ideas > ?!?!?

I happen to have a very similar system, same CPU, VIA based Mobo but with a faster PCI-express vid card, if you could grab PCMark2002 (small download), 3DMark03 or 05 (I have both) or another test program if you prefer, I'd be more than happy to do a comparison with you and we could do some troubleshooting afterwards when we've established a performance baseline Using games to troubleshoot is a bit cumbersome as there's a gazillion settings and you don't get a specific results file afterwards Using PCMark02 my results are as follows CPU: 7000 Memory: 9000 HD: 900 A well tuned and freshly rebooted PC with nothing running in the background would prolly get better numbers but it's "thereabouts", at least you shouldn't be seeing significantly lower numbers than these Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

"V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:hIv3f.5709$S43.810765 @news20.bellglobal.com: > > Yep............says so. Reread it to make sure I didn't skip that part. > Thanks though > What is your front side bus set to? When I first put in a new mb and 64bit chip, it SUCKED. Once I found the bios setting for the 800mhz fsb it fairly flew. dave henrie

> I get 3 short beeps on boot, I can see no error indication on the screen.A > website I came across noted possible RAM issues, but when I swapped theram > out together, and individually in different slots, still 3 short beeps. > Anybody have a clue what AMI 3 short beeps might mean as well as ram ?? Did a quick Google search. Check out these links: http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/amibeep.htm http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/tutorials/13/2/ Did you check on RAM compatability before you bought it? Early boards and AMD64s were extremely picky when it came to RAM. Even some top brands wouldn't work in certain boards. Unless things have improved, you may have incompatible memory, and I'm talking about the actual RAM stick (chip/board combo), not specs. I'd certainly try resetting CMOS, and see if you can get it to run with e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y conservative memory timings possibly including a purposely slow memory bus. If it doesn't fly or craps when you start inching up to "normal," you should probably read up on what brand and model memory people with that board are using. Sometimes they'll even suggest particular chip brands on the memory sticks. Again, I built my system awhile ago, so someone slap me if I'm out of date. Alan

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>V \"fnugen\" wrote: >> >> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I >> still >> have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c installed. >> This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an AMD Sempron >> 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same OS. My HUGE >> problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously choppy in >> comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP Home. New >> 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the F1c runs >> smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not anywhere >> near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if >> it >> made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I >> could >> RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an >> effort >> to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I flashed >> bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have any ideas >> ?!?!? > > I happen to have a very similar system, same CPU, VIA based Mobo but > with a faster PCI-express vid card, if you could grab PCMark2002 (small > download), 3DMark03 or 05 (I have both) or another test program if you > prefer, I'd be more than happy to do a comparison with you and we could > do some troubleshooting afterwards when we've established a performance > baseline > > Using games to troubleshoot is a bit cumbersome as there's a gazillion > settings and you don't get a specific results file afterwards > > Using PCMark02 my results are as follows > > CPU: 7000 > Memory: 9000 > HD: 900 > > A well tuned and freshly rebooted PC with nothing running in the > background would prolly get better numbers but it's "thereabouts", at > least you shouldn't be seeing significantly lower numbers than these > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; CPU: 7166 Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) HDD: 659 Funny though, when I look under system info, my AGP (set at 8x in BIOS) shows as being set at 2 in the log in PCMark02. Here is a cut and paste of the AGP capabilities section Revision: 3.0 Rate: 4x, 8x (2x enabled) Aperture Size: 256 MB Sideband Addressing: supported (enabled) Fast Write: not supported Does this mean something is wrong in Whoville ?? If so, how can it be fixed? Danke Verne

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>> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I >> still >> have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c installed. >> This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an AMD Sempron >> 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same OS. My HUGE >> problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously choppy in >> comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP Home. New >> 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the F1c runs >> smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is not anywhere >> near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if >> it >> made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I >> could >> RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an >> effort >> to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I flashed >> bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have any ideas >> ?!?!? > I happen to have a very similar system, same CPU, VIA based Mobo but > with a faster PCI-express vid card, if you could grab PCMark2002 (small > download), 3DMark03 or 05 (I have both) or another test program if you > prefer, I'd be more than happy to do a comparison with you and we could > do some troubleshooting afterwards when we've established a performance > baseline > Using games to troubleshoot is a bit cumbersome as there's a gazillion > settings and you don't get a specific results file afterwards > Using PCMark02 my results are as follows > CPU: 7000 > Memory: 9000 > HD: 900 > A well tuned and freshly rebooted PC with nothing running in the > background would prolly get better numbers but it's "thereabouts", at > least you shouldn't be seeing significantly lower numbers than these > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; CPU: 7166 Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) HDD: 659 Funny though, when I look under system info, my AGP (set at 8x in BIOS) shows as being set at 2 in the log in PCMark02. Here is a cut and paste of the AGP capabilities section Revision: 3.0 Rate: 4x, 8x (2x enabled) Aperture Size: 256 MB Sideband Addressing: supported (enabled) Fast Write: not supported Does this mean something is wrong in Whoville ?? If so, how can it be fixed? Danke Verne

"V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:v2K3f.6178$[email hidden]:

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> > Funny though, when I look under system info, my AGP (set at 8x in > BIOS) shows as being set at 2 in the log in PCMark02. Here is a cut > and paste of the AGP capabilities section > > Revision: 3.0 > Rate: 4x, 8x (2x enabled) > Aperture Size: 256 MB > Sideband Addressing: supported (enabled) > Fast Write: not supported > > > Does this mean something is wrong in Whoville ?? If so, how can it be > fixed? Danke > > Verne > > >

Probably just a false report. I get the same thing in PCMark 2002, whereas Everest Home Edition says "8x enabled". (A lot of people seem to get a number of tools reporting AGP 2x from Windows XP OS Settings -- whatever that has to do with it -- regardless of what the GPU, mobo BIOS, and GPU drivers report.)

V \"fnugen\" wrote: > > Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; > > CPU: 7166 > Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) > HDD: 659 Well, at least we know that your CPU is up to speed and that your memory configuration is reasonable if not optimal, over to graphics testing, using 3DMark03 (smaller download) you should be seeing a score of 6000 or around 3000 in 05 if you already have that one, again it's very helpful to have a baseline to work from As for the anomalies in the AGP report I'll refer to Harry's explanation, it could just as well be a bug in the report as a wrong setting Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>V \"fnugen\" wrote: >> >> Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; >> >> CPU: 7166 >> Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) >> HDD: 659 > > Well, at least we know that your CPU is up to speed and that your memory > configuration is reasonable if not optimal, over to graphics testing, > using 3DMark03 (smaller download) you should be seeing a score of 6000 > or around 3000 in 05 if you already have that one, again it's very > helpful to have a baseline to work from > > As for the anomalies in the AGP report I'll refer to Harry's > explanation, it could just as well be a bug in the report as a wrong > setting > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score lines in my results that you need to know? Verne

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>> Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; >> CPU: 7166 >> Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) >> HDD: 659 > Well, at least we know that your CPU is up to speed and that your memory > configuration is reasonable if not optimal, over to graphics testing, > using 3DMark03 (smaller download) you should be seeing a score of 6000 > or around 3000 in 05 if you already have that one, again it's very > helpful to have a baseline to work from > As for the anomalies in the AGP report I'll refer to Harry's > explanation, it could just as well be a bug in the report as a wrong > setting > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score lines in my results that you need to know? Verne

V \"fnugen\" wrote: > > Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score > lines in my results that you need to know? > > Verne Not really, it sounds to me as if your system is up to speed in general, so it must be something specific towards the games you are playing.....if memory serves me right you've only ran ISI based games so far ? I've read on various board that people aren't having much luck with Cat5.7 and 5.8 drivers for the Radeons, some of them have reverted back to 5.6 with good luck, others have had better experience with 5.9 and 5.10's, but you've already tried the latter one, perhaps reverting back to 5.6 would be worth a shot Have you tested any games not based on ISI's game engine ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>V \"fnugen\" wrote: >> >> Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score >> lines in my results that you need to know? >> >> Verne > > Not really, it sounds to me as if your system is up to speed in general, > so it must be something specific towards the games you are > playing.....if memory serves me right you've only ran ISI based games so > far ? > > I've read on various board that people aren't having much luck with > Cat5.7 and 5.8 drivers for the Radeons, some of them have reverted back > to 5.6 with good luck, others have had better experience with 5.9 and > 5.10's, but you've already tried the latter one, perhaps reverting back > to 5.6 would be worth a shot > > Have you tested any games not based on ISI's game engine ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. Will also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I believe it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. Verne

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>> Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score >> lines in my results that you need to know? >> Verne > Not really, it sounds to me as if your system is up to speed in general, > so it must be something specific towards the games you are > playing.....if memory serves me right you've only ran ISI based games so > far ? > I've read on various board that people aren't having much luck with > Cat5.7 and 5.8 drivers for the Radeons, some of them have reverted back > to 5.6 with good luck, others have had better experience with 5.9 and > 5.10's, but you've already tried the latter one, perhaps reverting back > to 5.6 would be worth a shot > Have you tested any games not based on ISI's game engine ? > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. Will also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I believe it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. Verne

V \"fnugen\" wrote: > > No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. Will > also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I believe > it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system > that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. Not sure really, only place I could find it was on the installation file I DL'ed from ATI, apparently I'm running 5.6.....obviously I'm not paying as much attention to this stuff I used to Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>V \"fnugen\" wrote: >> >> No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. >> Will >> also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I >> believe >> it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system >> that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. > > Not sure really, only place I could find it was on the installation file > I DL'ed from ATI, apparently I'm running 5.6.....obviously I'm not > paying as much attention to this stuff I used to > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

I would assume I am on 5.10, as the release date is 9/14/2005. Maybe reverting to an older then?? I have tried the 5.9 and 5.10. I was using the 5.8 before reformat with no problems, but if it is the chip or mobo causing the grief, would be nice to know what the masses are running to get things smooth. RBR runs sweeeeeeet at 1600x1200. BF2 lost a file somehow and can't check it. LFS2 seemed pretty good as well, but as far as grphics go, I get kinda lost with all the options in the menu. I'd like to set everything to as high as can go to try, but not sure what all that stuff really is. It does run smooth, and like RBR, there are a few stutters during replay. All in all............it may be appearing it is a game vs system issue NOT the mobo/cpu. I really kind of hope so, that means all is fine here. Just installed Aquamark3 and will run it shortly as well. I'll be bock !! (use your terminator voice) ok, stupid, sorry Verne

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>> No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. >> Will >> also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I >> believe >> it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system >> that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. > Not sure really, only place I could find it was on the installation file > I DL'ed from ATI, apparently I'm running 5.6.....obviously I'm not > paying as much attention to this stuff I used to > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

I would assume I am on 5.10, as the release date is 9/14/2005. Maybe reverting to an older then?? I have tried the 5.9 and 5.10. I was using the 5.8 before reformat with no problems, but if it is the chip or mobo causing the grief, would be nice to know what the masses are running to get things smooth. RBR runs sweeeeeeet at 1600x1200. BF2 lost a file somehow and can't check it. LFS2 seemed pretty good as well, but as far as grphics go, I get kinda lost with all the options in the menu. I'd like to set everything to as high as can go to try, but not sure what all that stuff really is. It does run smooth, and like RBR, there are a few stutters during replay. All in all............it may be appearing it is a game vs system issue NOT the mobo/cpu. I really kind of hope so, that means all is fine here. Just installed Aquamark3 and will run it shortly as well. I'll be bock !! (use your terminator voice) ok, stupid, sorry Verne

"V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MTW3f.6648$[email hidden]...

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >>V \"fnugen\" wrote: >>> >>> No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. >>> Will >>> also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I >>> believe >>> it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system >>> that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. >> >> Not sure really, only place I could find it was on the installation file >> I DL'ed from ATI, apparently I'm running 5.6.....obviously I'm not >> paying as much attention to this stuff I used to >> >> >> Beers and cheers >> (uncle) Goy >> >> "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, >> they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." >> >> --Our Lord John Cleese-- > > I would assume I am on 5.10, as the release date is 9/14/2005. Maybe > reverting to an older then?? I have tried the 5.9 and 5.10. I was using > the 5.8 before reformat with no problems, but if it is the chip or mobo > causing the grief, would be nice to know what the masses are running to > get things smooth. RBR runs sweeeeeeet at 1600x1200. BF2 lost a file > somehow and can't check it. LFS2 seemed pretty good as well, but as far as > grphics go, I get kinda lost with all the options in the menu. I'd like to > set everything to as high as can go to try, but not sure what all that > stuff really is. It does run smooth, and like RBR, there are a few > stutters during replay. All in all............it may be appearing it is a > game vs system issue NOT the mobo/cpu. I really kind of hope so, that > means all is fine here. Just installed Aquamark3 and will run it shortly > as well. > > I'll be bock !! (use your terminator voice) ok, > stupid, sorry > > Verne >

I guess I got a decent enough score in Aquamark3. But upon further testing, it seems that EA games suffer the hit. BF2 is like a major slide show. I haven't had the chance to reinstall Sims2 for my kids yet, but it seems doubtful it will work. Is there a site that carries archived Cat drivers? I have rebooted so many times this last week, a few more attempts with drivers will not kill me. Just knowing that somebody has figured this out would be so much easier. DAMN !!! Goy, do you have any EA game troubles with your chip ?? V

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>>> No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. >>> Will >>> also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I >>> believe >>> it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system >>> that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. >> Not sure really, only place I could find it was on the installation file >> I DL'ed from ATI, apparently I'm running 5.6.....obviously I'm not >> paying as much attention to this stuff I used to >> Beers and cheers >> (uncle) Goy >> "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, >> they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." >> --Our Lord John Cleese-- > I would assume I am on 5.10, as the release date is 9/14/2005. Maybe > reverting to an older then?? I have tried the 5.9 and 5.10. I was using > the 5.8 before reformat with no problems, but if it is the chip or mobo > causing the grief, would be nice to know what the masses are running to > get things smooth. RBR runs sweeeeeeet at 1600x1200. BF2 lost a file > somehow and can't check it. LFS2 seemed pretty good as well, but as far as > grphics go, I get kinda lost with all the options in the menu. I'd like to > set everything to as high as can go to try, but not sure what all that > stuff really is. It does run smooth, and like RBR, there are a few > stutters during replay. All in all............it may be appearing it is a > game vs system issue NOT the mobo/cpu. I really kind of hope so, that > means all is fine here. Just installed Aquamark3 and will run it shortly > as well. > I'll be bock !! (use your terminator voice) ok, > stupid, sorry > Verne

I guess I got a decent enough score in Aquamark3. But upon further testing, it seems that EA games suffer the hit. BF2 is like a major slide show. I haven't had the chance to reinstall Sims2 for my kids yet, but it seems doubtful it will work. Is there a site that carries archived Cat drivers? I have rebooted so many times this last week, a few more attempts with drivers will not kill me. Just knowing that somebody has figured this out would be so much easier. DAMN !!! Goy, do you have any EA game troubles with your chip ?? V

"V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:DVS3f.6490$S43.1002232 @news20.bellglobal.com: > Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score > lines in my results that you need to know? > > Verne > Wow, made me feel better Verne. 9813 3dmark with no overclocking.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:DVS3f.6490$S43.1002232 > @news20.bellglobal.com: > >> Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score >> lines in my results that you need to know? >> >> Verne >> > > Wow, made me feel better Verne. 9813 3dmark with no overclocking.

What are you running to get those kinds of marks Dave ?? I haven't decided yet if I am going to OC yet or not. This MSI board has a dynamic OC in the BIOS.......kinda nice that steps are already taken for me.....just need to enable them. Stability first. Get these freaking ISI games working. EA seems to not like my machine anymore, and wouldn't that be fitting, what games do I play............EA !!!!!!! DAMN Verne

>> Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular score >> lines in my results that you need to know? >> Verne > Wow, made me feel better Verne. 9813 3dmark with no overclocking. What are you running to get those kinds of marks Dave ?? I haven't decided yet if I am going to OC yet or not. This MSI board has a dynamic OC in the BIOS.......kinda nice that steps are already taken for me.....just need to enable them. Stability first. Get these freaking ISI games working. EA seems to not like my machine anymore, and wouldn't that be fitting, what games do I play............EA !!!!!!! DAMN Verne

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>V \"fnugen\" wrote: >> >> Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; >> >> CPU: 7166 >> Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) >> HDD: 659 > > Well, at least we know that your CPU is up to speed and that your memory > configuration is reasonable if not optimal, over to graphics testing, > using 3DMark03 (smaller download) you should be seeing a score of 6000 > or around 3000 in 05 if you already have that one, again it's very > helpful to have a baseline to work from > > As for the anomalies in the AGP report I'll refer to Harry's > explanation, it could just as well be a bug in the report as a wrong > setting > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

I just compared scores in Aquamark3 with a guy who runs a 9700pro. He beat my score by 12000. Something is definitely wrong here. If I am running a card higher, I should be smokin that score. My card obviously works.......but what might be making it work less than it should. It's running a lot slower than it should by this comparison. Any ideas based on this info ?!?! Verne

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>> Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; >> CPU: 7166 >> Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) >> HDD: 659 > Well, at least we know that your CPU is up to speed and that your memory > configuration is reasonable if not optimal, over to graphics testing, > using 3DMark03 (smaller download) you should be seeing a score of 6000 > or around 3000 in 05 if you already have that one, again it's very > helpful to have a baseline to work from > As for the anomalies in the AGP report I'll refer to Harry's > explanation, it could just as well be a bug in the report as a wrong > setting > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > --Our Lord John Cleese--

I just compared scores in Aquamark3 with a guy who runs a 9700pro. He beat my score by 12000. Something is definitely wrong here. If I am running a card higher, I should be smokin that score. My card obviously works.......but what might be making it work less than it should. It's running a lot slower than it should by this comparison. Any ideas based on this info ?!?! Verne

In article <N9Y3f.8311$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:MTW3f.6648$[email hidden]... > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > >>V \"fnugen\" wrote: > >>> > >>> No, actually I haven't yet. I will try a couple, will report back soon. > >>> Will > >>> also check and see what version I am using for the cat's.........I > >>> believe > >>> it is 5.10/CCC right now. I don't recall where exactly I go on my system > >>> that tells me the Cat's release number, not veriosn number. > >> > >> Not sure really, only place I could find it was on the installation file > >> I DL'ed from ATI, apparently I'm running 5.6.....obviously I'm not > >> paying as much attention to this stuff I used to > >> > >> > >> Beers and cheers > >> (uncle) Goy > >> > >> "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > >> they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > >> > >> --Our Lord John Cleese-- > > > > I would assume I am on 5.10, as the release date is 9/14/2005. Maybe > > reverting to an older then?? I have tried the 5.9 and 5.10. I was using > > the 5.8 before reformat with no problems, but if it is the chip or mobo > > causing the grief, would be nice to know what the masses are running to > > get things smooth. RBR runs sweeeeeeet at 1600x1200. BF2 lost a file > > somehow and can't check it. LFS2 seemed pretty good as well, but as far as > > grphics go, I get kinda lost with all the options in the menu. I'd like to > > set everything to as high as can go to try, but not sure what all that > > stuff really is. It does run smooth, and like RBR, there are a few > > stutters during replay. All in all............it may be appearing it is a > > game vs system issue NOT the mobo/cpu. I really kind of hope so, that > > means all is fine here. Just installed Aquamark3 and will run it shortly > > as well. > > > > I'll be bock !! (use your terminator voice) ok, > > stupid, sorry > > > > Verne > > > I guess I got a decent enough score in Aquamark3. But upon further testing, > it seems that EA games suffer the hit. BF2 is like a major slide show. I > haven't had the chance to reinstall Sims2 for my kids yet, but it seems > doubtful it will work. Is there a site that carries archived Cat drivers? I > have rebooted so many times this last week, a few more attempts with drivers > will not kill me. Just knowing that somebody has figured this out would be > so much easier. DAMN !!! Goy, do you have any EA game troubles with your > chip ?? > >

Does that card require extra power for it to run correctly (normally using one of the molex connectors)? And have you connected it. First time I got a card that required this I didn't realise it and, though the card installed ok, it wouldn't run at anything like its optimum spec until I realised my mistake. -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

"V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in

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>> >>> Okay, ran 3dmark03 and my score was 5315. Are there any particular >>> score lines in my results that you need to know? >> >> Wow, made me feel better Verne. 9813 3dmark with no overclocking. > > What are you running to get those kinds of marks Dave ?? I haven't > decided yet if I am going to OC yet or not. This MSI board has a > dynamic OC in the BIOS.......kinda nice that steps are already taken > for me.....just need to enable them. Stability first. Get these > freaking ISI games working. EA seems to not like my machine anymore, > and wouldn't that be fitting, what games do I play............EA > !!!!!!! DAMN > > Verne > > >

AMD 64bit 3000+(2ghz) cpu. 1.25mb of pc 3200 ddr ram running at 400mhz ATI X800pro 256mb with v5.7 Catalyst drivers. Reallly cheap MSI bare bones motherboard. And one really huge Zalman heatsink. It's so big I could barely get the ram sticks installed. Sitting idle right now it's running at 32celcius and rarely pops into the upper 40's during heavy 3d gaming. Last I looked, AMD had chips running at 3800+(so that's probably 2.2 ghz lol) dh

"V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:v2K3f.6178$[email hidden]...

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >V \"fnugen\" wrote: > >> > >> Okay........I upgraded to an AMD64 3500+ and an MSI K8T Neo2-F mobo. I > >> still > >> have my 1024g ram and a 128m 9800pro. XP Home SP2 with DX9.0c

installed. > >> This "new" system is exactlty as my old one, excpet it was an AMDSempron > >> 2800+ and MSI KT4AV board. Same vid card, same ram......same OS. MyHUGE > >> problem here is that now GTL demo, and F1c are seriously choppy in > >> comparison to my OLD setup. I reformatted and reinstalled XP Home. New > >> 5.10cats......I get about 1 frame every 5 secs in GTL, and the F1c runs > >> smoother than GTL, but it has chop in the spinner and it is notanywhere

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> >> near as smooth as my old chip. I reinstalled both F1c and GTL to see if > >> it > >> made any difference, same thing. I bought the mobo and CPU so that I > >> could > >> RUN GTL..........now listen to everybody talk about it. Well, in an > >> effort > >> to upgrade for a NEW game, my old game runs worse than before. I

flashed > >> bios to newest, all drivers are new and updated. Any body have anyideas

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> >> ?!?!? > > > > I happen to have a very similar system, same CPU, VIA based Mobo but > > with a faster PCI-express vid card, if you could grab PCMark2002 (small > > download), 3DMark03 or 05 (I have both) or another test program if you > > prefer, I'd be more than happy to do a comparison with you and we could > > do some troubleshooting afterwards when we've established a performance > > baseline > > > > Using games to troubleshoot is a bit cumbersome as there's a gazillion > > settings and you don't get a specific results file afterwards > > > > Using PCMark02 my results are as follows > > > > CPU: 7000 > > Memory: 9000 > > HD: 900 > > > > A well tuned and freshly rebooted PC with nothing running in the > > background would prolly get better numbers but it's "thereabouts", at > > least you shouldn't be seeing significantly lower numbers than these > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > > > --Our Lord John Cleese-- > > Ok, using PCmark02 my scores are as follows; > > CPU: 7166 > Memory: 7711 (one stick is PC2700) > HDD: 659 > > Funny though, when I look under system info, my AGP (set at 8x in BIOS) > shows as being set at 2 in the log in PCMark02. Here is a cut and paste of > the AGP capabilities section > > Revision: 3.0 > Rate: 4x, 8x (2x enabled) > Aperture Size: 256 MB > Sideband Addressing: supported (enabled) > Fast Write: not supported > > > Does this mean something is wrong in Whoville ?? If so, how can it be

fixed? > Danke > > Verne Could be off-base here, but you say you still have a stick of PC2700 in there? Paired with what, PC3200? If so, isn't the default FSB speed of that MB/CPU supposed to be 400mhz? PC2700 is rated at 333mhz, so that might be your problem. GL, SB

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> Could be off-base here, but you say you still have a stick of PC2700 in > there? Paired with what, PC3200? > > If so, isn't the default FSB speed of that MB/CPU supposed to be 400mhz? > PC2700 is rated at 333mhz, so that might be your problem. > > GL, > > SB > >

I thought of that as well..........but games like N2K3 runs pretty good, RBR runs very smooth. It's only EA sports games and EA's Sims2 as well that just do not want to run. If I took the PC2700 out, running on 512m ram, would I end up with pretty much the same results. Been so long since I've been running 1024 that I don't even recall if these games will run on 512. Actually the PC3200 is rated at 333 on the stick. My question is why would some games run just fine, while others run crappy with the same ram setup ??

I thought of that as well..........but games like N2K3 runs pretty good, RBR runs very smooth. It's only EA sports games and EA's Sims2 as well that just do not want to run. If I took the PC2700 out, running on 512m ram, would I end up with pretty much the same results. Been so long since I've been running 1024 that I don't even recall if these games will run on 512. Actually the PC3200 is rated at 333 on the stick. My question is why would some games run just fine, while others run crappy with the same ram setup ??

> Could be off-base here, but you say you still have a stick of PC2700 in > there? Paired with what, PC3200? > > If so, isn't the default FSB speed of that MB/CPU supposed to be 400mhz? > PC2700 is rated at 333mhz, so that might be your problem. I just bought 2 sticks of OCZ ram. OCZ400512v25 PC3200 link to the ram --- http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_ddr_pc_3200_value_series-cas_2_5_ Still have the same problem. I am unsure of how to set up things like ram in bios, so I left it on auto. The frquency shows as 157.2MHz, FSB/DRAM-14. I physically have the ram in slots 1 and 2, but on CPU-Z it shows a in slots 1 and 3. Anything else you need to know, drop a reply, I check often enough. Rather annoyed that I can't play any games yet.

I just bought 2 sticks of OCZ ram. OCZ400512v25 PC3200 link to the ram --- http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_ddr_pc_3200_value_se... Still have the same problem. I am unsure of how to set up things like ram in bios, so I left it on auto. The frquency shows as 157.2MHz, FSB/DRAM-14. I physically have the ram in slots 1 and 2, but on CPU-Z it shows a in slots 1 and 3. Anything else you need to know, drop a reply, I check often enough. Rather annoyed that I can't play any games yet.

"V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zof4f.10813$[email hidden]...

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> > Could be off-base here, but you say you still have a stick of PC2700 in > > there? Paired with what, PC3200? > > > > If so, isn't the default FSB speed of that MB/CPU supposed to be 400mhz? > > PC2700 is rated at 333mhz, so that might be your problem. > > I just bought 2 sticks of OCZ ram. OCZ400512v25 PC3200 > link to the ram --- >

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_ddr_pc_3200_value_series-cas_2_5_ > Still have the same problem. I am unsure of how to set up things like ramin > bios, so I left it on auto. The frquency shows as 157.2MHz, FSB/DRAM-14.I > physically have the ram in slots 1 and 2, but on CPU-Z it shows a in slots1 > and 3. Anything else you need to know, drop a reply, I check often > enough. Rather annoyed that I can't play any games yet. > Interesting. You should be seeing 200mhz FSB I should think, as that's the default for that setup (400/2). Something's amiss in your bios, I suspect as 157.2 is low. Might be worth clearing the cmos and rebooting with the new ram in and memory settings on auto. But definitely check out your MB manual for bios settings and try posting in the forums at your board manufacturers site - or even emailing their tech support in case you need to manually override some settings. RAS can be a good source, but it's not like going to THE source. If your OCZ sticks are matched sufficiently, you should be able to run in dual channel mode, which generally means running in slots 1&3 or 2&4. Check your manual and look closely at the board slot labeling too, as some differ (a recent experience of mine). GL, SB

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> Interesting. You should be seeing 200mhz FSB I should think, as that's > the > default for that setup (400/2). Something's amiss in your bios, I suspect > as 157.2 is low. Might be worth clearing the cmos and rebooting with the > new ram in and memory settings on auto. But definitely check out your MB > manual for bios settings and try posting in the forums at your board > manufacturers site - or even emailing their tech support in case you need > to > manually override some settings. RAS can be a good source, but it's not > like going to THE source. > > If your OCZ sticks are matched sufficiently, you should be able to run in > dual channel mode, which generally means running in slots 1&3 or 2&4. > Check > your manual and look closely at the board slot labeling too, as some > differ > (a recent experience of mine). > > GL, > > SB >

Ok, all is well in Ramland............I reset the sticks into 2 and 4 and they are now running in dual mode. I did set the ram to auto in CMOS and all is okay that way. I didn't clear CMOS, but am still thinking maybe nmot such a bad idea, BUT I will just end up setting it all back again to where it is now. This wouldn't make a difference resetting then booting with the new ram under a reset cmos with everything as it was before?!?!

Ok, all is well in Ramland............I reset the sticks into 2 and 4 and they are now running in dual mode. I did set the ram to auto in CMOS and all is okay that way. I didn't clear CMOS, but am still thinking maybe nmot such a bad idea, BUT I will just end up setting it all back again to where it is now. This wouldn't make a difference resetting then booting with the new ram under a reset cmos with everything as it was before?!?!

"V "fnugen"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qij4f.11013$[email hidden]... > > Interesting. You should be seeing 200mhz FSB I should think, as that's > > the > > default for that setup (400/2). Something's amiss in your bios, Isuspect > > as 157.2 is low. Might be worth clearing the cmos and rebooting withthe > > new ram in and memory settings on auto. But definitely check out yourMB > > manual for bios settings and try posting in the forums at your board > > manufacturers site - or even emailing their tech support in case youneed > > to > > manually override some settings. RAS can be a good source, but it'snot > > like going to THE source. > > > > If your OCZ sticks are matched sufficiently, you should be able to runin

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> > dual channel mode, which generally means running in slots 1&3 or 2&4. > > Check > > your manual and look closely at the board slot labeling too, as some > > differ > > (a recent experience of mine). > > > > GL, > > > > SB > > > > Ok, all is well in Ramland............I reset the sticks into 2 and 4 and > they are now running in dual mode. I did set the ram to auto in CMOS and

all > is okay that way. I didn't clear CMOS, but am still thinking maybe nmotsuch > a bad idea, BUT I will just end up setting it all back again to where itis > now. This wouldn't make a difference resetting then booting with the newram > under a reset cmos with everything as it was before?!?! >The idea is to clear any memory settings (like FSB speed) that might still be affecting you even with the new ram installed. But all you need to do is check it out with whatever utility you prefer to see if the memory's running at the proper speed and timings. If so, then that's one less thing to worry about causing you problems, and even if it doesn't solve your chop in some games, it'll help everything else run like it should. SB

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:56:34 -0400, "V \"fnugen\"" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ok, all is well in Ramland............I reset the sticks into 2 and 4 and >they are now running in dual mode. I did set the ram to auto in CMOS and all >is okay that way. I didn't clear CMOS, but am still thinking maybe nmot such >a bad idea, BUT I will just end up setting it all back again to where it is >now. This wouldn't make a difference resetting then booting with the new ram >under a reset cmos with everything as it was before?!?! >

Download CPUinfo from AMD and run it. It should show the ram at 200mhz and the Hyper Transport at 1000mhz. If the HT is at 800 then go into the bios and set it to 1000mhz manually.

V \"fnugen\" wrote: > So...did you manage to get it fixed ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--